Upgrade Dell Dimension P166
Hank Holman
processor? Maybe put in a 350 or 400 mh Pentium II chip?
Has anyone here done that? Pitfalls? Where to buy the processor?
Any advise appreciated. Hank Holman
Robert Hancock
that in the Dell case as there are a few things that are non-standard, like
the power supply connections. In that case you'd need a new power supply or
a new case.
--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr
Hank Holman <a...@dbtech.net> wrote in message
news:3749dc0c....@news.dbtech.net...
David Wood
<a...@dbtech.net> writes
>Can I and should I upgrade a Dell Dimension 166 to a higher speed
>processor? Maybe put in a 350 or 400 mh Pentium II chip?
Depending on the exact model, there are three possibilities for a
straightforward processor swap:
1. fit a 200MHz Pentium (which are now out of production and hard to
find). If the board has no dual voltage support, you can't fit an
MMX processor.
2. fit a 233MHz Pentium MMX (which are apparently rather easier to
find).
3. no processor upgrade at all is possible.
There are third party solutions available to fit a MMX type processor
even without motherboard support, but this may also involve changing the
BIOS to a non-Dell one.
There is no way to fit a Celeron, Pentium II or Pentium III to the old
machine - the motherboard architecture is very different. The only
machines that can be fairly easily upgraded to Pentium II are the rather
rare Pentium Pro machines, and Pentium Pro machines are rare - the
special Overdrive processor is not cheap either. One company is even
working on a PCI card that will take a Celeron and modern memory and run
it in an old machine, but this looks expensive when you can buy a new
machine for not a whole lot more.
To be honest, you could throw a lot of money at your old machine for
minimal benefit. Most Dells of that age are limited to 64MB memory
(128MB under some circumstances, but the modules required are expensive
and stop the cache from working properly, slowing down the machine).
64MB is really getting too small now for many applications - the current
"sweet spot" for memory is 128MB. Your hard disks are ageing as well -
failures become more likely as the machine gets older.
I'd replace the machine if you're up against its limits - even the
current bottom-end Dimension V series would produce a noticeable
performance improvement (though the V series has its limitations -
particularly the motherboard video and no AGP slot - the XPS T series is
a better bet if you can afford it).
My guess is that a machine of the P166 era will have hard disks smaller
and slower than the current standard, a 15 inch monitor (current bottom
end is usually 17 inch, with 15 inch only available in some real budget
deals) and graphics / sound hardware far behind the current state of the
art. Unless you've upgraded, you'll probably have Windows 95 (OSR 2,
maybe even OSR 1 depending on when you bought your machine), and Office
95 (or an equally old copy of Works) - a new machine will come with
Windows 98 (and supposedly a free upgrade to Windows 98 SE) and, if you
opt for MS Office, Office 97 with a free (or at low cost in Europe)
upgrade to the equivalent edition of Office 2000. There are some
limitations that just can't be overcome with your old machine (such as
the lack of AGP graphics), and overcoming the limitations you can would
probably cost you a fair fraction of the cost of a new PC.
I recently replaced my Dimension XPS P133s with a Dimension XPS T450,
and the overall improvement is well worthwhile. More memory and a much
faster hard disk make a huge performance boost, though the faster
processor helps with certain things (most of what I use my PC for is not
really processor limited - it's disk and memory limited).
David
--
David Wood
da...@wood2.demon.co.uk
Gary Higgins
> Can I and should I upgrade a Dell Dimension 166 to a higher speed
> processor? Maybe put in a 350 or 400 mh Pentium II chip?
>
> Has anyone here done that? Pitfalls? Where to buy the processor?
>
> Any advise appreciated. Hank Holman
I am going to upgrade a friend's Dell P166 (non-MMX this weekend). We
are going to add a Pentium 233-MMX (only $89 at Egghead), a TB Montego
A3D-Xstream sound card, a new internal 56K PCI modem (not a Winmodem),
upgrade the RAM from 32 megs to 64 megs, upgrade from Win95a to Win98
(allowing UDMA to work on the hard drive) and a new CL Banshee graphics
card. We are also adding a scanner.
The PC will get a total make-over, with the hard drive being
re-formatted, and software re-installed. I expect this will provide a
significant performance boost of up to 30% in many areas, and should
give the PC another year or two of life. Most of the parts we are
adding are left-over parts from my PC which I have upgraded, so the
overall cost will be minimal.
I don't want to mess with changing the motherboard, BIOS, etc... because
we will want to sell the PC one day, and whoever gets the PC will get a
genuine Dell, with Dell tech support. If we change the mobo, etc.., the
new owner will get a "home-built" system with no tech support, which
reduces the value of the PC IMHO. The more money you can get for it,
the better new system you can buy.
Gary
DVogtner
Gary Higgins
> Check the PCI card upgrade at www.evertech.com
Thanks, but no thanks. I'm aware of that, and other upgrade options. I
really don't think that will provide that much more than the P233-MMX.
I really shy away from these "quick fixes" for upgrades. Maybe they
work for some people, but my guess is that it's not all it's cracked up
to be, with possible "side effects."
Gary
Gary Higgins
messages on Powerleap's web site, and I saw 4 times more negatives and
problems than good things. I'm going the safe way, with a genuine Intel
P233-MMX, no BIOS change, no hassle, just a quick, easy, safe upgrade.
And I won't have to explain to the next owner about how the PC was set up
and configured.
Gary
---------------
De...@upgrade.net wrote:
> Try Powerleap at http://www.powerleap.com/plprommx_k6.htm I
> did the 100 to 233MMX upgrade 6 months ago, easy no problems, this
> upgrade will require a bios upgrade though
De...@upgrade.net
greenS
the a05 or a06 that came with the Dell.
Anyway, I can't imagine what's a better deal than upgrading a p90 to a 233mmx;
what a change! (for about $200, without having to spend hours or days changing
a motherboard).
Christopher Muto
This thread seems to have gone into many different directions, most of
which I don't agree with so here's my 2ข...
First off, there is a Dimension P166C and a P166S. Given that you
didn't specify I will try to cover both the 'C' and 'S' models.
First of all, if you haven't already done so, you should upgrade your
system to 32mb of RAM. This will by far offer you the best bang for the
buck in a performance enhancement upgrade.
Secondly, replace the processor. Generally, I fell that you will
probably be disapointed with any processor upgrade for this system. Any
processor that you install is limited to the bus speed of the system
that it is installed in and all of he other components. This means that
even a 50% processor will only result in about 10% overall performance
increase (at best - your hard disk, video, etc will all still be
operating at the current level and so the overall performance increase
is minimal).
But if you want to install a new processor what are your choices?
Basically, with either of these two Dell you are faced with using either
Intel or WinChip processors or 'overdrives' with one of these chips at
it heart. Use of AMD and Cryix processors would require a BIOS upgrade
to a non Dell BIOS that would cost about $75 all by itself rendering the
hole excercise overpriced (and swaying the argument for purchasing a new
system rather than upgradeing this one in favor of the new purchase).
If it's a 'C' series then you are at the end of your direct replacement
processor chioce for Intel products (Pentium Classic 166 being the top
speed natively supported by the system). You could natively install a
Winchip C-6 200Mhz or 240Mhz. Thought these chips will perform a bit
better in general, they do fall short in the floating point unit making
them essentiall the same as your current Intel Classic 166 for gaming.
You could install a geniune Intel Pentium MMX Overdrive 200Mhz, or a
Powerleap adapter along with a geniune raw Intel Pentium MMX 233Mhz (you
need the Powerleap adapter, or a similar product, to install an Intel
Pentium MMX into this system as it will not support the dual voltage
requirements of the MMX chip). Summary, Winchip C6 200Mhz (66Mhz bus,
built in 3x multiplier) or the 240Mhz(60Mhz bus, built in 4x multiplier)
for about $55. The powerleap and a Intel Pentium MMX 233Mhz for about
$130. Neither offer outstanding improvement.
If you have a 'S' series then you could add to the list of possible
chioces the option to install a genuine Intel Pentium Classic 200Mhz.
If you can find one, it would be about $55, but they are getting to be
hard to find. All the above is true for this system too.
-Christopher Muto
Gary Higgins
support an Intel Pentium 233-MMX. You say that whatever model of P166 it
is, it won't support the P233-MMX? Only the P200, either overdrive or
regular?
Gary
-----------------------
Gary Higgins
course). The Dell web site says exactly what you say, that the PC can only
go up to a P200 classic.
But it uses an Intel 430VX chipset. I've been researching on Intel's and
other web pages to find out if the 430FX chipset will support MMX
technology, whether the P200-MMX, the P233-MMX or the P200-MMX overdrive. I
can't seem to find the information, even on Intel's web site.
Intel says that the 430VX is supposed to have 4 memory slots AND support
USB. But, Dell's web page says their Intel 430VX motherboard included with
the P166s only has 2 memory slots, and does NOT have USB ports.
I appreciate any info from you or anyone else about the ability to upgrade
this PC to MMX technology, either P200MMX OD, P233-MMX, or P200MMX
processor. Thanks.
Gary
---------------------------------------------
De...@upgrade.net
I upgraded my P100 with Powerleap 233 MMX with no problems,
the chip set is 430FX, Dell told me they provide no upgrades for
this model. Powerleap now has new product upto 400Mhz for older
systems.
On Fri, 28 May 1999 09:04:30 -0500, Gary Higgins <ga...@mcs.net>
wrote:
Christopher Muto
It is a Socket 7 motherboard but that does not ensure that it is a dual
voltage capable Socket 7 as the Intel MMX chips require. It would require a
voltage regulator in order to support an Intel MMX processor. Such
regulators can be purchased from place like http://www.powerleap.com or come
integrated in 'Overdrive' processors (a processor and a voltage regulator as a
'sandwich'). Intel MMX is not BIOS dependant in any way, it simply is a
voltage issue. Additionally, there is an issue of processor speed. The
processor's internal speed is determined by a multiplier setting. The
multiplier simply determines the internal processor speed as a ratio to the
bus speed. A 200Mhz processor running in a system with a 66Mhz bus speed has
a multiplier of 3.0. If you want to go beyond that (say 233Mhz) then the
voltage regulator must have this 'multiplier' feature built into that. Intel
Overdrives do. So to answer you overdrive question; either will work, but you
don't need an overdrive for a Pentium 'classic' 200Mhx (just use a raw Pentium
'classic' 200Mhz, but don't expect much of a performance increase).
-Christopher Muto
Gary Higgins wrote:
> I thought if it was on a socket 7 motherboard, that a P166 (non-MMX) could
> support an Intel Pentium 233-MMX. You say that whatever model of P166 it
> is, it won't support the P233-MMX? Only the P200, either overdrive or
> regular?
>
> Gary
> -----------------------
Christopher Muto
See my other reply.... There is no BIOS dependancy for MMX (as detailed in my
other post). There is a BIOS dependancy regarding other manufactures (other
than Intel) processors and so you are esentiall stuck with choosing Intel or
WinChip for this model (or a $80 BIOS upgrade that makes the cost of upgrading
too expensive in my opinion),
Here are specific chioces for the PxxxS series.
-Install a raw Intel Pentium 'Classic' 200Mhz, adusting the jumpers on your
motherboard, only about $55 if you can find the chip.
-Install a raw WhinChip C-6 200Mhz, has built in multiplier so just set the
jumpers on the motherboard for a 66Mhz bus speed (100, 133, 166, 200 all are
66Mhz based), also about $55, has MMX, but has a poor floating point unit (not
for gamers).
-Install a raw WhinChip C-6 240Mhz, has built in multiplier so just set the
jumpers on the motherboard for a 60Mhz bus speed (90, 120, 150 all are 60Mhz
based), also about $55, has MMX, has a poor floating point unit (not for
gamers), but is based on a slower bus speed (and thatn means slower HDD, RAM,
VIDEO, etc which leaves me wondering why anyone would choose this over the
200Mhz version).
-Install an Intel Pentium Overdrive 200Mhz with (or without) MMX, again, if you
can find one, probably about $150, built in multiplier, set the motherboard to a
66Mhz bus speed (as above).
-Install a Powerleap ($75) and a Intel Pentium 233Mhz (only made with MMX) ($55)
-Research PNY 'Overdrives' that are based on the WinChip processor. This will
cost more than a raw WinChip but may make you feel better than installing or
sourcing a raw WinChip.
-Christopher Muto
Gary Higgins wrote:
> Chris, I found out my friends have a P166s, with Pentium classic 166 (of
> course). The Dell web site says exactly what you say, that the PC can only
> go up to a P200 classic.
>
> But it uses an Intel 430VX chipset. I've been researching on Intel's and
> other web pages to find out if the 430FX chipset will support MMX
> technology, whether the P200-MMX, the P233-MMX or the P200-MMX overdrive. I
> can't seem to find the information, even on Intel's web site.
>
> Intel says that the 430VX is supposed to have 4 memory slots AND support
> USB. But, Dell's web page says their Intel 430VX motherboard included with
> the P166s only has 2 memory slots, and does NOT have USB ports.
>
> I appreciate any info from you or anyone else about the ability to upgrade
> this PC to MMX technology, either P200MMX OD, P233-MMX, or P200MMX
> processor. Thanks.
>
> Gary
> ---------------------------------------------
greenS
I got about a 90% boost (according to most benchmarks, including one in Norton
Utilities) going from a Dell xps90c to a Powerleap with mmx233. I think
that kind of percentage increase is the only really good deal. I think that
was well worth the money, but I wouldn't bother with the smaller increase
you'd get going from 166 to 233. But Poweleap seems to work well for most
Dell people.
In article <374F2C90...@worldnet.att.net>, Christopher Muto
greenS
p.s. I got my "boost" numbers wrong. My notes show that I got about a 160%
speed increase from that upgrade.
Christopher Muto
That does sound like a satifying upgrade but I the performance increase in your case
was much for significant that the others... her's why: You system was operating
with a cpu speed of 90Mhz and a bus speed of 60Mhz. When you installed the
powerleap you increased your bus speed to 66Mhz which is 10% faster than it
previously had been. The bus speed is the speed that all components within your
system 'talk' to each other. This means that changing this setting resulted in your
Video, RAM, Hard disk, external speed of the processor, etc to go 10% faster. That
means the whole system was enhanced by this 10% figure directly because of the
increase in bus speed. The processor speed had previously been 90Mhz and now is
233Mhz which too is an obviouly large increase. It is even a relatively large
increase with the 90Mhz CPU operating at 1.5 time the bus speed, and the 233Mhz
operating at 3.5 times the new bus speed. Overall a significant performance boost.
As for the other upgrades being dicsussed in this thread the difference is not as
great. Systems with CPU's rnning at 166Mhz will not enjoy any change in bus speed.
The simply will have the same bus speed with a slightly faster processor. The
166Mhz system vs the 233Mhz does mean a 40% faster processor speed, but given that
there is no increse in bus speed the overall result is not nearly 40% (it actially
is less than 10% overall). I think your upgrade chioce was a good one, and I think
upgrading a 166Mhz is likely to disapoint...
-Christopher Muto
greenS
Thanks Chris. I did change the bus speed to 66 before installing the
Powerleap (so I should have said i was upgrading from a 100 cpu instead of a
90, technically). My benchmark records show at 96% increase going from
the p100 to the 233mmx according to Norton System Info (from score of 30 to
59). Wintune showed a 165% increase in Drystones (from 166 to 441) and
basically the same increase for Whetstones. Anyway, so yeah, I think the
$200 I paid Powerleap was worth it, since i started with such a slow system,
but as you say going from a 166 would be much less of an improvement. .
In article <37516D0F...@worldnet.att.net>, Christopher Muto