ICL DRS 6000 - Sun compatible?

Paulo Jorge Delgado

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May 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/10/95

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Hello,

I have an ICL DRS 6000, that became available from another site. It runs a version of Unix called
DRS/NX. I know it is SPARC based, so I wonder if it can run SunOS or Solaris.

People at ICL Portugal weren't sure about it. Someone told me that ICL DRS 6000 are Fujitsu machines
with an ICL label and that Fujitsu machines are Sun compatible.

Please help.

Paulo

John J Smith

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May 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/11/95

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In article <3oqcqd$5...@boeing.bta.pt>,

Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
>
>I have an ICL DRS 6000, that became available from another site. It runs a
>version of Unix called
>DRS/NX. I know it is SPARC based, so I wonder if it can run SunOS or Solaris.

Nope, it isn't. Sparc stands for Scalable Processor Architecture or
something, which is an architecture, rather than a processor type
in the sense of Intex CPUs. The two machines have different processor
types.

I always thought DRS6000 were RISC based, rather than SPARC, but then
again this may be the same thing (I know the acronyms not exactly the
difference...)

The upshot of which, Sun stuff runs on Sun machines, and clones. We had
to hire a Sun to get a decent C++ development environment, and the DRS
was relegated to being a fileserver...

>People at ICL Portugal weren't sure about it. Someone told me that ICL DRS 6000>are Fujitsu machines
>with an ICL label and that Fujitsu machines are Sun compatible.

DRS6000, unless they have changed in the last 2 years, have always been
manufactured by ICL, not Fujitsu.

Smid

Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer

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May 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/11/95

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J.J....@ftel.co.uk (John J Smith) writes:

>In article <3oqcqd$5...@boeing.bta.pt>,
>Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
>>
>>I have an ICL DRS 6000, that became available from another site. It runs a
>>version of Unix called
>>DRS/NX. I know it is SPARC based, so I wonder if it can run SunOS or Solaris.

>Nope, it isn't. Sparc stands for Scalable Processor Architecture or
>something, which is an architecture, rather than a processor type
>in the sense of Intex CPUs. The two machines have different processor
>types.

Hate to dissapoint you, but the DRS6000 SPARCs are SPARCs just as
much as Suns are SPARC. They use the same instruction set.
(Which is pretty much what the SPARC definition is all about)

The DRS6000 and Suns running Solaris 2.x can exchange binaries.
However, the DRS6000 is a different machine and therefor won't
run Sun's OSes. (Different device drivers and such)
Binary compatibility between DRS6000/Solaris 2.x also depends on what
libraries you ahev available, I'd guess.

>I always thought DRS6000 were RISC based, rather than SPARC, but then
>again this may be the same thing (I know the acronyms not exactly the
>difference...)

RISC is a family name of processors, based on the type of the instruction
set (simple instructions w/o many side effects, all instructions same
length, often load/stores only on natural boundaries, lots of registers,
usually only register->register operations)

SPARC is A RISC Architecture, as is PowerPC, MIPS, HP-PA, Alpha.

>>People at ICL Portugal weren't sure about it. Someone told me that ICL DRS 6000>are Fujitsu machines
>>with an ICL label and that Fujitsu machines are Sun compatible.

>DRS6000, unless they have changed in the last 2 years, have always been
>manufactured by ICL, not Fujitsu.

The processors might have been manufactured by Fujitsu though.

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.

Hugh Grierson

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May 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/12/95

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In article <3ot3c5$3...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,

Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer <Caspe...@Holland.Sun.COM> wrote:
> >DRS6000, unless they have changed in the last 2 years, have always been
> >manufactured by ICL, not Fujitsu.
>
> The processors might have been manufactured by Fujitsu though.

AFAIK the CPUs come from a variety of sources, including TI but not, I
think, Fujitsu. However the Fujitsu DS/90 is a rebadged ICL DRS6000,
built by ICL in the UK.

--
Hugh Grierson hu...@fujitsu.co.nz 16C, sunny but cool

Mathias Koerber

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May 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/12/95

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In (<3oqcqd$5...@boeing.bta.pt>) Paulo Jorge Delgado (Paulo....@bta.pt) wrote:
| Hello,

| I have an ICL DRS 6000, that became available from another site. It runs a version of Unix called
| DRS/NX. I know it is SPARC based, so I wonder if it can run SunOS or Solaris.

| People at ICL Portugal weren't sure about it. Someone told me that ICL DRS 6000 are Fujitsu machines

| with an ICL label and that Fujitsu machines are Sun compatible.

No, Fujitsu machines are ICL DRSs with a Fujitsu label :-)

ICl claims that DRS/NX V7 is Solaris 2.1 compatible (and we have some luck running
Solaris 2.1 software on it), but it's woth testing software before laying out too
much money.

I don't know whether you could run SunOS or Solaris on the DRS, as the hardware
is likely to be different...

| Please help.

| Paulo

--
Mathias Koerber at SWi Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
14 Science Park Drive Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
#04-01 The Maxwell e-mail: Mathias...@SWi.com.sg
S'pore 0511 <A HREF=http://www.SWi.com.sg/~mathias/mathias.html>MK</A>
Fuer richtige Nebenwirkungen,
essen Sie die Packungsbeilage,
und schlagen Sie Ihren Arzt
oder Apotheker - from the .sig of st...@stets.stgt.sub.org

Terry Billany

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May 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/14/95

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In article <3ot3c5$3...@engnews2.eng.sun.com> Caspe...@Holland.Sun.COM (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer) writes:
>J.J....@ftel.co.uk (John J Smith) writes:
>
>>In article <3oqcqd$5...@boeing.bta.pt>,
>>Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
>>>

>>>I have an ICL DRS 6000, that became available from another site. It runs a
>>>version of Unix called
>>>DRS/NX. I know it is SPARC based, so I wonder if it can run SunOS or Solaris.
>

>>Nope, it isn't. Sparc stands for Scalable Processor Architecture or
>>something, which is an architecture, rather than a processor type
>>in the sense of Intex CPUs. The two machines have different processor
>>types.
>
>Hate to dissapoint you, but the DRS6000 SPARCs are SPARCs just as
>much as Suns are SPARC. They use the same instruction set.
>(Which is pretty much what the SPARC definition is all about)
>
>The DRS6000 and Suns running Solaris 2.x can exchange binaries.
>However, the DRS6000 is a different machine and therefor won't
>run Sun's OSes. (Different device drivers and such)
>Binary compatibility between DRS6000/Solaris 2.x also depends on what
>libraries you ahev available, I'd guess.
>
>>I always thought DRS6000 were RISC based, rather than SPARC, but then
>>again this may be the same thing (I know the acronyms not exactly the
>>difference...)
>
>RISC is a family name of processors, based on the type of the instruction
>set (simple instructions w/o many side effects, all instructions same
>length, often load/stores only on natural boundaries, lots of registers,
>usually only register->register operations)
>
>SPARC is A RISC Architecture, as is PowerPC, MIPS, HP-PA, Alpha.
>

>>>People at ICL Portugal weren't sure about it. Someone told me that ICL DRS 6000>are Fujitsu machines
>>>with an ICL label and that Fujitsu machines are Sun compatible.
>

>>DRS6000, unless they have changed in the last 2 years, have always been
>>manufactured by ICL, not Fujitsu.
>
>The processors might have been manufactured by Fujitsu though.
>

>Casper
>--
>Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
>to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.

Some of the later DRS6000's - the 300 series desktop models - _were_ a
Fujitsu design I think, and have SBus/MBus architecture. I've no idea
whether they will run SunOS though, I never tried, but it is a
possibility..

Mathias Koerber

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May 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/14/95

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In (<3ots1j$5...@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz>) Hugh Grierson (hu...@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz) wrote:
| In article <3ot3c5$3...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,

| Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer <Caspe...@Holland.Sun.COM> wrote:
| > >DRS6000, unless they have changed in the last 2 years, have always been
| > >manufactured by ICL, not Fujitsu.
| >
| > The processors might have been manufactured by Fujitsu though.

| AFAIK the CPUs come from a variety of sources, including TI but not, I

| think, Fujitsu. However the Fujitsu DS/90 is a rebadged ICL DRS6000,
| built by ICL in the UK.

Interesting. I always thought ICL made them first (codename UNICORN)
and Fujitsu then relabeled them as DS/90 ...

| --
| Hugh Grierson hu...@fujitsu.co.nz 16C, sunny but cool

--

Mathias Koerber at SWi Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
14 Science Park Drive Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
#04-01 The Maxwell e-mail: Mathias...@SWi.com.sg
S'pore 0511 <A HREF=http://www.SWi.com.sg/~mathias/mathias.html>MK</A>

Democracy is four wolves and one lamb voting on what to have for lunch
- ??

J. J. Farrell

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May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95

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In article <D8KD9...@cix.compulink.co.uk> tbil...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Terry Billany") writes:
>
>Some of the later DRS6000's - the 300 series desktop models - _were_ a
>Fujitsu design I think, and have SBus/MBus architecture. I've no idea
>whether they will run SunOS though, I never tried, but it is a
>possibility..

The VMEbus-based DRS 6000s were completely ICL designed and produced.
The first SBus/MBus machines (the 200 Series, single-processor) were
Fujitsu-designed hardware, retracked and manufactured by ICL, with ICL
software. The multi-processor SBus/MBus machines (300 series) were
jointly designed motherboard electronics, with ICL-designed cabinetry,
manufactured by ICL, with ICL software.

The SPARC chips in the DRS 6000 range have come from the same variety
of suppliers as used by all manufacturers of SPARC-based machines,
including Cypress, Fujitsu, and TI.

No DRS 6000 can run any version of SunOS, but all support the ability
to run SunOS 5 (Solaris 2) binaries which abide by the SVR4 SPARC ABI
standard.

My opinions; I do not speak for my employer.

J. J. Farrell

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May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95

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In article <D8KD9...@cix.compulink.co.uk> tbil...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Terry Billany") writes:
>
>Some of the later DRS6000's - the 300 series desktop models - _were_ a
>Fujitsu design I think, and have SBus/MBus architecture. I've no idea
>whether they will run SunOS though, I never tried, but it is a
>possibility..

The VMEbus-based DRS 6000s were completely ICL designed and produced.
The first SBus/MBus machines (the 200 Series, single-processor) were

Fujitsu-designed hardware retracked and manufactured by ICL with ICL

software. The multi-processor SBus/MBus machines (300 series) were

jointly designed motherboard electronics with ICL-designed cabinetry,

manufactured by ICL, with ICL software.

The SPARC chips in the DRS 6000 range have come from the same variety
of suppliers as used by all manufacturers of SPARC-based machines,
including Cypress, Fujitsu, and TI.

No DRS 6000 can run any version of SunOS, but all support the ability

to run most SunOS SPARC binaries.

Christopher Samuel

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May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <D8Exu...@ftel.co.uk> of alt.sys.icl,
J.J....@ftel.co.uk (John J Smith) doodled:

> In article <3oqcqd$5...@boeing.bta.pt>,
> Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
> >
> >I have an ICL DRS 6000, that became available from another site.
> >It runs a version of Unix called DRS/NX. I know it is SPARC based,
> >so I wonder if it can run SunOS or Solaris.
>
> Nope, it isn't. Sparc stands for Scalable Processor Architecture or
> something, which is an architecture, rather than a processor type in
> the sense of Intex CPUs. The two machines have different processor
> types.

The DRS600 is indeed a SPARC machine, at least the one we have is.

> I always thought DRS6000 were RISC based, rather than SPARC, but then
> again this may be the same thing (I know the acronyms not exactly the
> difference...)

The SPARC is a RISC chip, RISC is a philosophy and not a chip you buy.

Chris

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--
Christopher Samuel, Open Software Systems Group, ch...@rivers.dra.hmg.gb
N-115, Defence Research Agency, St Andrews Road, Great Malvern, England, UK
DISCLAIMER: I write only for myself, not for DRA. Phone: +44 1684 894644
"You can't write space opera in a vacuum" --- Iain Banks

Robert Andersson

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May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95

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In <D8LFu...@dsbc.icl.co.uk> j...@dsbc.icl.co.uk (J. J. Farrell) writes:

>No DRS 6000 can run any version of SunOS, but all support the ability
>to run most SunOS SPARC binaries.

Care to qualify that 'most' a bit? I'm working for an ISV that currently
delivers separate Sun Solaris 2.x and ICL DRS/NX 7.x binaries. We would
love to merge the two versions.

Regards, Robert.
--
Robert Andersson Voice +47 22418551 Gallagher & Robertson A/S
rob...@gar.no Fax +47 22428922 Kongensgt. 23, 0153 Oslo, Norway

Christopher Samuel

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May 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/16/95

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <3pa4l5$4...@news.tuwien.ac.at> of alt.sys.icl,
ro...@e231icl1.tuwien.ac.at (Wolfgang Pichler) doodled:

> Nevertheless I think the idea is great, and this thread shows, that
> other people seem have problems with drs/nx too.

My information is that ICL are working on porting Unixware 2.0 to the
newer DRS6000's, and that DRS/NX will stop being developed soon.

Chris

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Wolfgang Pichler

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May 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/16/95

to

I have examined the Solaris 4.2 cd-rom and found out, that there are *only*
a few problems to get it running on a drs6000s :

- shared lib's :

are mostly incompatible with e.g. drs-nx 7.4.4, but some
solaris 4.2 binaries WILL run ok, because a SYSV ABI seems not broken
(e.g. ftp : libsocket.so.1,libnsl.so.1,libc_ext.so.1,libc.so.1).

i also detected some bus-errors with some binaries, but could not figure
out if this comes from shlib-incompatibilities or not.

- architecture :
i see no way to boot solaris from eeprom mode (csm).
i also think, that ICL will never open the (information) doors to
allow a workaround (what can one ever get from them ?).

i have no suggestions, if it is ok to boot solaris from boot3 (stand)
just like any kernel. but at least one would have to crack ICL's csmrte
to figure out, what to do with the csm and/or to arbite HSP-bus.

it would be interesting, if mmu's would be compatible and/or solaris would
handle multiprocessing corrrectly.

again i would not expect ANY support from ICL.

I spoke already with SUN representatives, but they would only say,
keep trying your manufacturer. wo what?

Nevertheless I think the idea is great, and this thread shows, that other
people seem have problems with drs/nx too.

w.pichler
--
=====
***** PGP AVAILABLE as follows :
Pretty Good Privacy(tm) 2.6.i - Public-key encryption for the masses.
***** 'pgp -kvc <ro...@e231icl1.tuwien.ac.at>' output :
Type bits/keyID Date User ID
pub 1024/9DA9217D 1995/03/30 Wolfgang Pichler <ro...@e231icl1.tuwien.ac.at>
Key fingerprint = 38 73 0A 46 A8 C0 99 0F AE 5C 39 08 F1 8F DB 24
1 matching key found.
===== URL: 'httpd://e231icl1.tuwien.ac.at:8080/'
===== Standard disclaimers and other pipapo's apply ...

Mathias Koerber

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May 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/16/95

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In (<3p53da$c...@raffles.technet.sg>) Mathias Koerber (mat...@unicorn.swi.com.sg) wrote:
| In (<3ots1j$5...@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz>) Hugh Grierson (hu...@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz) wrote:
| | In article <3ot3c5$3...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,
| | Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer <Caspe...@Holland.Sun.COM> wrote:
| | > >DRS6000, unless they have changed in the last 2 years, have always been
| | > >manufactured by ICL, not Fujitsu.
| | >
| | > The processors might have been manufactured by Fujitsu though.

| | AFAIK the CPUs come from a variety of sources, including TI but not, I
| | think, Fujitsu. However the Fujitsu DS/90 is a rebadged ICL DRS6000,
| | built by ICL in the UK.

| Interesting. I always thought ICL made them first (codename UNICORN)
| and Fujitsu then relabeled them as DS/90 ...

Ooops. I see my reading comprehension has dropped a lot lately. I thought
I had read "... is rebadged ICL..." (no "a")...

So ugh and I totally agree and I can take my foot out of my mouth.

| | --
| | Hugh Grierson hu...@fujitsu.co.nz 16C, sunny but cool

--
Mathias Koerber at SWi Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
14 Science Park Drive Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
#04-01 The Maxwell e-mail: Mathias...@SWi.com.sg
S'pore 0511 <A HREF=http://www.SWi.com.sg/~mathias/mathias.html>MK</A>

Expergiscere et coffeam olface.
Wake up and smell the coffee

Paulo Jorge Delgado

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May 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/17/95

to

ch...@rivers.dra.hmg.gb (Christopher Samuel) wrote:
>
>My information is that ICL are working on porting Unixware 2.0 to the
>newer DRS6000's, and that DRS/NX will stop being developed soon.
>
>Chris
>

That's also the information I got from ICL and from people who answered
my original posting by mail. Unfortunately my DRS6000 is an older model and
it seems it will spend it's retirement running DRS/NX.

I also have a DRS3000 (486@50 MHz) running DRS/NX. Does anybody know if it
will support another i386 based Unix (SCO,Solaris,Lynux...), without to
much trouble?

Mathias Koerber

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95

to

| That's also the information I got from ICL and from people who answered
| my original posting by mail. Unfortunately my DRS6000 is an older model and
| it seems it will spend it's retirement running DRS/NX.

| I also have a DRS3000 (486@50 MHz) running DRS/NX. Does anybody know if it
| will support another i386 based Unix (SCO,Solaris,Lynux...), without to
| much trouble?

I once tried linux (Slackware 1.2) on an older DRS3000 (486@25), but it
had problems booting due to some video incompatibilities( ? can't really
remember).

Newer linuxes can be used w/o video support I header so that might be an
option.

I might try that again if the local ICL office lets me get on that
DRS3000 again.

cheers
| Paulo

--

Mathias Koerber at SWi Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29
14 Science Park Drive Fax: +65 / 777 94 01
#04-01 The Maxwell e-mail: Mathias...@SWi.com.sg
S'pore 0511 <A HREF=http://www.SWi.com.sg/~mathias/mathias.html>MK</A>

Never express yourself more clearly than you think. -- N. Bohr

John J Smith

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95

to

In article <3pch68$p...@boeing.bta.pt>,

Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
>ch...@rivers.dra.hmg.gb (Christopher Samuel) wrote:
>
>I also have a DRS3000 (486@50 MHz) running DRS/NX. Does anybody know if it
>will support another i386 based Unix (SCO,Solaris,Lynux...), without to
>much trouble?

Yes, it is basically a PC Compatible, and should take any PC Unix. ICL bought
Nokia the PC manufacturer, and then decided to sell all its compatibles as
compatibles, rather than this strange rebadging as a unix box thing.

Smid

J. J. Farrell

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95

to

In article <3p7er1$m...@stratos.gar.no> rob...@gar.no (Robert Andersson) writes:
>In <D8LFu...@dsbc.icl.co.uk> j...@dsbc.icl.co.uk (J. J. Farrell) writes:
>
>>No DRS 6000 can run any version of SunOS, but all support the ability
>>to run most SunOS SPARC binaries.
>
>Care to qualify that 'most' a bit? I'm working for an ISV that currently
>delivers separate Sun Solaris 2.x and ICL DRS/NX 7.x binaries. We would
>love to merge the two versions.

It looks like the cancel wasn't fast enough on that message!

I reposted with a more precise statement. DRS 6000 can run any binary
which abides strictly by the SVR4 SPARC ABI standard, and makes no
assumptions beyond what is specified in the ABI. This includes a subset
of SunOS 5 (Solaris 2) binaries.

I apologise for any confusion I may have caused.

J. J. Farrell

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95

to

In article <D8rvA...@ftel.co.uk> J.J....@ftel.co.uk (John J Smith) writes:
>
>ICL bought
>Nokia the PC manufacturer, and then decided to sell all its compatibles as
>compatibles, rather than this strange rebadging as a unix box thing.

This is incorrect. ICL manufactured its own full range of IBM-PC
Compatibles (the Mnn series) for many years before it bought Nokia Data
from Nokia. These were sold running the usual PC Operating Systems.
In addition, the higher end models were configured up in a way more
suitable for UNIX servers, and sold as the DRS 3000 range running
DRS/NX, ICL's implementation of SVR4.

After Nokia Data joined ICL, their people became responsible for all
ICL's PC compatibles; but the same strategy continued. The last models
in the DRS 3000 range were the same basic box as the top end of the
PC range, developed by the ex Nokia Data people.

This strategy changed with the introduction of the teamServer range.

Christopher Samuel

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May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

/* followups redirected to poster */

In article <D8rvA...@ftel.co.uk> of alt.sys.icl,

J.J....@ftel.co.uk (John J Smith) doodled:

> In article <3pch68$p...@boeing.bta.pt>,

> Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
> >ch...@rivers.dra.hmg.gb (Christopher Samuel) wrote:
> >
> >I also have a DRS3000 (486@50 MHz) running DRS/NX. Does anybody know if it
> >will support another i386 based Unix (SCO,Solaris,Lynux...), without to
> >much trouble?

I didn't write that, folks, please remember to check your attributions

Chris

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marga...@googlemail.com

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Jan 29, 2014, 5:05:52 AM1/29/14

to

On Thursday, May 18, 1995 8:00:00 AM UTC+1, John J Smith wrote:
> In article <3pch68$p...@boeing.bta.pt>,
> Paulo Jorge Delgado <Paulo....@bta.pt> wrote:
> >ch...@rivers.dra.hmg.gb (Christopher Samuel) wrote:
> >
> >I also have a DRS3000 (486@50 MHz) running DRS/NX. Does anybody know if it
> >will support another i386 based Unix (SCO,Solaris,Lynux...), without to
> >much trouble?
>

> Yes, it is basically a PC Compatible, and should take any PC Unix. ICL bought

> Nokia the PC manufacturer, and then decided to sell all its compatibles as
> compatibles, rather than this strange rebadging as a unix box thing.
>

> Smid

yes it will- realise it is basically back in the day- when I used to be a Unix engineer- but DRS3000 is ICL ( then owned by Fujitsu) will run any PC OS including sco, lynux albeit on a different partition and you will need to decide on boot up which operating system you wish to boot from - Linux, Sco, DRS/NX . Do feel free to get in touch