A bit of Krivon - juri247.jpg
kaspian
>
> Supernews:
>
> Yet another example of child porn from your subscriber. My
> next stop is PEDOWATCH.
Hi, Speedbyrd! Let's review:
In order to have child pornography, you've got to have two ingredients:
1. A child.
2. Pornography.
Now, it's possible -- though far from certain -- that the model "Jurij"
is below legal age in some countries. Hence, you MIGHT have ingredient
#1.
However, there is NO WAY that these images could be construed as
pornographic. They are the work of Alexander Krivon, a well-regarded
and widely published photographer living in Germany, whose work has
appeared in numerous publications including the magazine Koinos. I
don't understand how you could find these pictures objectionable; you
obviously are no stranger to the newsgroups, so you have seen plenty of
examples of genuine pornography.
If you're going to report me to the authorities, there is no need to
take an indirect route. My real name is Richard Grant, I am an openly
queer father and novelist living in Rockport, Maine - read my books! --
and I welcome any investigation into my life both on and off the
internet. I am NOT prepared to be intimidated into silence by some kind
of prudish body-hating homophobe who happens to be homosexual.
I trust you will not object if I copy this note to
news...@supernews.com, and I would appreciate it if you would also
send it along to Pedowatch and any other bodies to which you have
"reported" me.
Peace.
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:21:35 -0400, kaspian
> <kas...@acadia.net> wrote:
>
> >Path: newscene.com!newscene!newscene!novia!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sn-xit-01!sn-
> >From: kaspian <kas...@acadia.net>
> >Newsgroups: alt.svens.house
> >Subject: A bit of Krivon - juri247.jpg
> >Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:21:35 -0400
> >Organization: dj.1.11
> >Message-ID: <3A62EB...@acadia.net>
> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------787322893DA1"
> >X-Complaints-To: news...@supernews.com
> >Lines: 1718
> >Xref: newscene.com alt.svens.house:51385
> >
> >--
> >
> >Ball ist rund.
> >Spiel dauert 90 Minuten.
> >So viel, so mehr klar.
> >Alles ander ist Theorie.
> >
> >-- Tom Tykwer, LOLA RENNT
> >
>
> The Speedbyrd®
--
Ball ist rund.
Spiel dauert 90 Minuten.
So viel, so mehr klar.
Alles ander ist Theorie.
-- Tom Tykwer, LOLA RENNT
kaspian
>
> I trust you will not object if I copy this note to
> news...@supernews.com, and I would appreciate it if you would also
> send it along to Pedowatch and any other bodies to which you have
> "reported" me.
Never mind - I have contacted Pedowatch directly myself, as well as
news...@supernews.com.
I guess it's about time that these issues are brought to a head. If someone
is going to sling accusations of "child porn" around, then we ought to come
to some kind of understanding about what this term means, legally and morally
speaking.
If anyone can make a convincing argument that this work by Alexander Krivon
is pornographic, under U.S. or any other law, I'd love to hear it.
(Especially now that I've stuck my neck out.) I'll be more than happy to rid
my hard disk of any material that is actually illegal. Otherwise, I think
action is warranted to put an end to this sort of character defamation.
As to the moral dimension, I see nothing in these works beyond an artistic
celebration of male beauty. Clearly there is no evidence of exploitation or
abuse. I'm not even convinced the model is a minor. Is it morally wrong to
depict nude bodies? That notion seems pretty antiquated.
I suppose more than anything that I am puzzled by where Speedbyrd, apparently
a gay man, is coming from. There ARE newsgroups where genuine kiddie porn is
posted regularly. Alt.svens.house is not one of them. If Speedbyrd is
sincerely opposed to child pornography, as I am, then why is he wasting his
time HERE, instead of training his sights someplace where they might actually
find a target?
I don't expect a satisfying answer to that last question. But I *would*
appreciate any clarification, for our mutual benefit, of applicable U.S. and
European law.
Austin
wrote in a separate message that you are a gay father. Ask yourself, if this
boy were yours, would you want him standing nude in front of a camera at
his age, and then have his picture displayed on the internet? Pardon my being
judgmental here, but if your answer is yes, I would seriously call to question
the respect you have for your child.
Vegge
* Pedophiles are not exclusive to gay men.
* Kiddy porn IS posted here quite often. Once is too often.
* In the United States 'models' in porn must be 18 years of age or older.
Defining 'who' can do porn is easy, defining 'what' porn is not. 'Hard
core' porn is showing explicit sexual acts, I.E.: anal/vaginal intercourse,
it is also showing an erection. 'Soft core' porn is exposure of male or
female genitalia.
I am not going to debate moral issues, that is your personal business. The
real issue in this group is what age defines child? One says 16+, another
12+, yet another 18+. Some say pubes while others say it is the 'look'.
And of course what is porn? One says 'art' another says porn. The bottom
line is what your country of residency says. Let's face it, we will never
all agree. This is why we have laws, and law enforcement world wide.
The Cucumber
Speedbyrd® <Spee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qc1a6t41ah2ddem1v...@4ax.com...
> Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm automatically in favor
> of all things gay. What's right is right and wrong is
> wrong. Your pics are of UNDER AGED kids and you'll never
> convince me that it's not child porn and you jeopardize the
> group with posting of same.
>
> The Speedbyrd®
>
Anonymous
<bdp76t8b55319ljms...@4ax.com>:
>You can put whatever pretty label you want on them,
>fuckface, but they are CHILD PORN and you are a demented
>PEDO PERVERT and if I could get you arrested, I WOULD!
>
> The Speedbyrd®
>
Everyone must remember that the law and moral issues have nothing to do
with it. Speedbyrd is the ultimate judge of everything. It doesn't matter
if its right or wrong or legal or not if speedbyrd is against it you must
comply. You have no choice. Speedbyrd is the deity to which all other gods
must answer. He can never be wrong. His opinion is the only one that
matters. You must stop thinking on your on and comply with his demands. He
is the only authority.
--------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==-------
Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server
-----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------
Naturist
So! Let's see if I have this right, OK?
SpeedByrd® gets around a lot and is an advisor and a God to all. I guess
that means he is "omnipotent".
Let me say that REAL slow: "Ommmnni-pooottennntt". Let me also break down
the word so we all understand it.
Omni - all encompassing and
Potent - able to get an erection
Definition: Omnipotent - has a hard-on for everybody.
Sincerely,
Naturist
Anonymous <anon...@anonymous.anonymous> wrote in message
news:3a7d7e81_3@anonymous...
Naturist
In this case I am pleased to report that "hard-on" is only a figure of
speech referring to SpeedByrd®'s obvious willingness to blast contributors
to the group.
Perhaps one day he might find that the practice of a little civility might
spawn the same in return.
Sincerely,
Naturist
cheerybye <tr...@last.com> wrote in message
news:Fbif6.20459$o5.2...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> Damnit Naturist, you are hinting that Turdy can get a hard-on and that is
a
> falsehood. Turdy hasn't seen his prick for forty years, except with a hand
> mirror he keeps nearby. His belly prohibits the poor litlle thing to be
> observed. He has to squat to pee, just like his mother Marty Panach, he
uses a
> C cup bra to keep his hairy tits under control. Turdy is actually worth
more
> dead than alive when you consider the price fat rendering could bring.
> We shouldn't talk about him like this, what we have said is so kind, he
> doesn't deserve it.Besides he is on an organ doners list, and is high on
the
> list for a head transplant, and a pecker too. I hope they don't get the
> operation mixed up, because we have been talking to a pecker all this
time,
> and it just would be nice for him to get a real head.
> -cb
>
> In article <t7r8u1m...@corp.supernews.com>, "Naturist"
Autoloukos
Usenet, international law is void. Only US laws reign on Usenet (i.e. the
world). Or more specifically, the laws of such bible-observing states as (name
some in the corn-belt). You do not seem to grasp that Speedy has his own
laws/morals all made up: what he thinks is wrong, IS wrong. Nothing to do with
international law. No matter what other countries think. Anything the right wing
US says, goes for the entire world.
Ah well - what's new about that anyway...
I'm afraid Speedy has gained official support now, since Mister "religion will
not interfere with state matters - but I will have a casual breakfast meeting
with the bishops and appoint extreme right-wing people to govern you all" Bush
came to office. Sad.
Totally off-topic, I know. I just had to say it. You all who know me, know that
I am totally opposed to child porn. Just the way Speedy is going about it, makes
me so mad because it's so inefficient and shows his complete lack of
intelligence - at least in this respect. He's really a good guy, intrinsically,
I think. These matters, however, do not need an emotional approach. At all.
Ah well. Ramble, ramble. I just had to get this off my chest.
Auto