Anybody ever hear of any civil rights abuses coming from the NICS database?

[deep]

You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.
You might as well face it but a universal background check requirement
is inevitable so you might as well get used to it. You would be much
better served by participating in compromise and getting a good system
designed that we can use to filter out the criminals but doesn't
infringe on the civil liberties of law biding citizens. It CAN be
done but taking a zero compromise stance on anything will only serve
to make it worse.

As I explained to Scout, UBCdb (universal background check database)
is NOT a universally readable database wide open to the public that
collects personal information from gun owners and makes it available
to everybody. That is absolutely fucking ridiculous, and is an ideal
example of just how uniformed you people are. Unauthorized people are
NOT going to be able to go to a website and do searches and pull up
personal information about people. It does NOT work that way. As a
matter of fact, the system can be designed so it doesn't need to
collect ANY information about the seller or purchaser. That is not
the point. The point is the db collects information on CRIMINAL
activity. If you aren't a criminal, you don't even need to be in the
database. So the notion that a UBCdb will lead to registration and
confiscation is also absolutely absurd.

At least you people are consistent.

[betweentheeyes]

"deep" wrote in message
news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...

>You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil
>himself.
>You might as well face it but a universal background check
>requirement
>is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.

<snip>

As usual, you could not be more wrong.

[deep]

Can you be more specific? I've offered you a chance to be involved in
constructive suggestions and criticisms. So you seem to have big
problems with BGCs. Why? Do you even know how they work? Or could
be made to work? No? Hmmm. See, you people being so clueless is
part of the problem.

Now try to prove you aren't a clueless idiot.

Bet you can't.

[Terry Coombs]

<deep> wrote in message news:ch5cj8ph7ts1k3igi...@4ax.com...

As I understand it , the problem is that data on criminal/mentally
unbalanced people is NOT entered into the current system in a timely manner
. If the system were kept current , then a NICS check would prevent retail
purchase of firearms to those who are forbidden . Of course this doesn't
address the problems in private sales and straw purchases , but again there
are already laws about that .
IMO we need to enforce the laws we already have , not pass more
restrictive legislation . As we said in the late 60's , these laws will have
little or no effect on those that are breaking existing laws . While I
personally don't own any of the firearms they're trying to ban , I do see
the need and hesitate to deny people the means to defend ourselves against
ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN *AND* *DOMESTIC* . Bottom line here is that I'm afraid
of where it appears our government is headed , and I want the means
available to prevent it if it comes down to it .
--
Snag

[JohnJohnsn]

On Mar 5, 10:01 am, Tiefe Scheiße <du...@lilldm.dnc.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:57:29 -0500, "betweentheeyes"

> <betweenthee...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:
>
>>"Tiefe Scheiße" wrote in message

>> news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>
>>> You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.
>

That's an appropriate description of the Socialist/Marxist-in-Chief
you LILLDMs put into the White House: TWICE!!!

>
>>> You might as well face it but a universal background check
>>> requirement is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.
>> <snip>
>
>>As usual, you could not be more wrong.
>
> Can you be more specific?
>

Yes (see below).

>
> I've offered you a chance to be involved in constructive suggestions
> and criticisms. So you seem to have big problems with BGCs. Why?
>

The term "government abuse" come to mind here.

Shall we remind you of the `Waco/Mount Carmel Branch Davidian Church
Assault and Kiddie Barbeque' here?

How about the `Ruby Ridge Mother and Child Shooting Contest' put on by
the very operators of NICS: the very same `Feral Band of (kiddie)
Incinerators' (FBI) you seem to trust so much.

>
> Do you even know how they work?
>

Yes.

>
> Or could be made to work?
>

Or be continually abused (see below).
>
> No?
>
Yes (see below).

>
> Hmmm. See, you people being so clueless is part of the problem.
>
> Now try to prove you aren't a clueless idiot.
>

DONE! (See below)
>
> Bet you can't.
>
Here's the proof, Scheißekopf:

You titled this thread as "Anybody ever hear of any civil rights
abuses coming from the NICS database?"

Well, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which runs the NICS
program, has publicly acknowledged that they have all along been
keeping the inputted Names, DoBs, and all other information which
identifies those who PASSED a NICS chack; to-wit: lawful gun buyers;
in _direct_violation_ of the NICS creation law.

Based upon your own stated "facts" here and elsewhere in Usenet, you
do not feel that violations of federal law by a chief federal LAW
ENFORCEMENT agency to be a violation of each person's civil right to
privacy and to not be "archived" in a defacto list of gun owners: a
list most certainly subject to be misused by a run-amok federal
government.

You, Scheißekopf, are a gun control quisling; either intentionally or
stupidly: I'll let the readers and lurkers make their own
determination about that.

---

“The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be
ruled by evil men.”
--Plato

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they
are in almost every kingdom in Europe.”
--Noah Webster

“Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing
degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?
Where is the difference between having our arms under our own
possession and under our own direction, and having them under the
management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having
those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or
equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
--Patrick Henry

“The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any
person. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly
been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since
it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation of and arbitrary
power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in
the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over
them.”
--Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, “Commentaries on the
Constitution of the United States”

“The overriding purpose of the Framers in guaranteeing the right of
the people to keep and bear arms was a check on the standing army,
which the Constitution gave the Congress the power to 'raise and
support'. Thus, the well regulated militia necessary to the security
of a free state was a militia that might someday fight against a
standing army raised and supported by a tyrannical national
government.”
--Second Amendment scholar Daniel J. Schultz

[Ray Keller]

"JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3803017e-f664-435a...@v8g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

On Mar 5, 10:01 am, Tiefe Schei�e <du...@lilldm.dnc.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:57:29 -0500, "betweentheeyes"
> <betweenthee...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:
>

>>"Tiefe Schei�e" wrote in message

Here's the proof, Schei�ekopf:

You titled this thread as "Anybody ever hear of any civil rights
abuses coming from the NICS database?"

Well, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which runs the NICS
program, has publicly acknowledged that they have all along been
keeping the inputted Names, DoBs, and all other information which
identifies those who PASSED a NICS chack; to-wit: lawful gun buyers;
in _direct_violation_ of the NICS creation law.

Based upon your own stated "facts" here and elsewhere in Usenet, you
do not feel that violations of federal law by a chief federal LAW
ENFORCEMENT agency to be a violation of each person's civil right to
privacy and to not be "archived" in a defacto list of gun owners: a
list most certainly subject to be misused by a run-amok federal
government.

You, Schei�ekopf, are a gun control quisling; either intentionally or

dudu is a well known domestic enemy.

[Ray Keller]

"Terry Coombs" <snag...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:w%oZs.303777$2x2.2...@newsfe01.iad...

[Juan Alderete]

"betweentheeyes" wrote in message news:kh54in$nuv$1...@dont-email.me...

#####
Yes he can.

[Oglethorpe]

<deep> wrote in message news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...

> You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.

They are not enforcred.

[Steve from Colorado]

You people? Fuck you.

[Winston_Smith]

On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:06:17 -0700, deep wrote:

>You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.
>You might as well face it but a universal background check requirement
>is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.

A human being can not survive speeds as great as 60 MPH.
After Nixon, another Republican will never be elected.
After Carter, another Democrat will never be elected.
Conventional wisdom changes.

>You would be much
>better served by participating in compromise and getting a good system
>designed that we can use to filter out the criminals but doesn't
>infringe on the civil liberties of law biding citizens.

Sounds like an attempt to salvage something of the gun control
movement that is clearly in trouble.

>It CAN be
>done but taking a zero compromise stance on anything will only serve
>to make it worse.

Libs have a zero compromise stance on everything. When beaten they
just repackage it and wait for some event to spring it on us again.

>As I explained to Scout, UBCdb (universal background check database)
>is NOT a universally readable database wide open to the public that
>collects personal information from gun owners and makes it available
>to everybody.

I'm not principally worried that the guy down the street might look me
up to see what I own. It's Beloved Big Brother that is the threat.

>That is absolutely fucking ridiculous, and is an ideal
>example of just how uniformed you people are. Unauthorized people are
>NOT going to be able to go to a website and do searches and pull up
>personal information about people. It does NOT work that way.

That's a red herring to divert discussion. It's the "authorized" ones
that worry me. And in our "transparent" government, more and more is
being done in secret. For our own good, you understand. You have to
pass the bill to find out what's in it.

If you wonder what they can pull up on people check the FBI dossiers
on ML King, Elvis, Disney, and all the people that were blackballed by
the entertainment industries, anybody that was ever in the public eye
- right up to this moment. Not their professional lives - their
personal, private, off the time-clock lives. Freedom of information is
proving very valuable to bring what government collects to light. If
you have ever filed a government form, had the most minor brush with
law (a parking ticket will do), ever had a financial transaction other
than anonymous cash and carry - YOU ARE IN THERE.

>As a
>matter of fact, the system can be designed so it doesn't need to
>collect ANY information about the seller or purchaser.

"Can be" is a wonderful place. I hope we all get to go there some day.
The system we have now promised to destroy the paperwork within three
days of the transaction being completed. Some government agencies said
screw the law, we are keeping them - forever.

>That is not
>the point. The point is the db collects information on CRIMINAL
>activity.

BULLSHIT - it collects data on everyday, peaceful, law abiding
citizens. Do you think criminals get their guns via a background check
at an FFL dealer? But still, by some mysterious process, they have
guns.

>If you aren't a criminal, you don't even need to be in the
>database.

I've bought guns from dealers. I AM in the database. Don't NEED to be
but I AM.

>So the notion that a UBCdb will lead to registration and
>confiscation is also absolutely absurd.

If you are innocent you have nothing to hide. Is that the best the
libs can come up with on this one?

>At least you people are consistent.

Consistency is one of our virtues and better than the libs
flip-flopping with the winds of emotion or saying one thing and doing
whatever the hell they feel like later.

[betweentheeyes]

"deep" wrote in message
news:ch5cj8ph7ts1k3igi...@4ax.com...

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:57:29 -0500, "betweentheeyes"
<between...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:

>"deep" wrote in message
>news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>
>>You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil
>>himself.
>>You might as well face it but a universal background check
>>requirement
>>is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.
><snip>
>
>As usual, you could not be more wrong.
>
>Can you be more specific?

Yes I can, but of no value to point out your flaws. You lack the
ability to reflect on your actions and words.

>I've offered you a chance to be involved in
>constructive suggestions and criticisms.

I'm going to let Klaus step in here and paste some of your
'constructive suggestions and criticisms'.

>So you seem to have big
>problems with BGCs. Why?

Violated the United States Constitution.

>Do you even know how they work?

Very well.

>Or could be made to work?

Straw man that doesn't matter. They are illegal.

> No? Hmmm. See, you people being so clueless is
> part of the problem.

Without any doubt, there IS someone clueless in this thread.

>Now try to prove you aren't a clueless idiot.

To you? Why?

>Bet you can't.

Someone with no moral fiber, offering to bet. Interesting.

[deep]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:11:54 -0500, "betweentheeyes"

<between...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:

>"deep" wrote in message
>news:ch5cj8ph7ts1k3igi...@4ax.com...
>
>On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:57:29 -0500, "betweentheeyes"
><between...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:
>
>>"deep" wrote in message
>>news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil
>>>himself.
>>>You might as well face it but a universal background check
>>>requirement
>>>is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.
>><snip>
>>
>>As usual, you could not be more wrong.
>>
>>Can you be more specific?
>
>Yes I can, but of no value to point out your flaws. You lack the
>ability to reflect on your actions and words.

That's a cop-out. This is not about me. Make some intelligent
comments on the functioning of the database perhaps. Oh, you can't?
No shocker there.

>
>>I've offered you a chance to be involved in
>>constructive suggestions and criticisms.
>
>I'm going to let Klaus step in here and paste some of your
>'constructive suggestions and criticisms'.
>
>>So you seem to have big
>>problems with BGCs. Why?
>
>Violated the United States Constitution.
>

No they don't.

>>Do you even know how they work?
>
>Very well.
>

No you don't.

>>Or could be made to work?
>
>Straw man that doesn't matter. They are illegal.
>

Why?

>> No? Hmmm. See, you people being so clueless is
>> part of the problem.
>
>Without any doubt, there IS someone clueless in this thread.
>
>>Now try to prove you aren't a clueless idiot.
>
>To you? Why?
>
>>Bet you can't.
>
>Someone with no moral fiber, offering to bet. Interesting.
>

Not one intelligent comment made. No suprise there. All you people
can do is wander around consumed with hate and misinformation. All
you do is prove how clueless you are.

[deep]

I know you'd like to, but you can start by answering the question.
Can't, can you?

[deep]

You just claiming they happened doesn't make it so. You've proven you
will lie to defame anyone that doesn't do what you think they should.

Thanks for proving you don't have a clue either. but I knew that.

[Stormin Mormon]

Maybe the NICS data base *IS* a civil rights abuse?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Stormin Mormon]

Well, Steve, you're being consistent.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about You People
www.YouPeople.org
.

"Steve from Colorado" <steve.fro...@cocks.net> wrote in message
news:kh5go8$se4$1...@dont-email.me...

[deep]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 12:36:39 -0800, "Oglethorpe" <anti...@go.com>
wrote:

>
><deep> wrote in message news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>> You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.
>
>They are not enforcred.
>

Well then they need to be.

[Steve from Colorado]

On 3/5/2013 4:01 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about You People
> www.YouPeople.org
> .
>
> "Steve from Colorado" <steve.fro...@cocks.net> wrote in message
> news:kh5go8$se4$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>> At least you people are consistent.
>>
>
> You people? Fuck you.
>
>

The link you provided doesn't work. Did you mean . . .

youpeople.net

You People used to be a part of a Black Bulletin Board System network
called AfroNet. Bulletin Board Systems, more commonly known as BBS’s
which were ...

[Steve from Colorado]

Gee, I guess you told them. If this were North Korea, you could have
them / us sent to the gulags. While not really what you would consider
a direct response, I suggest everyone, including "deep," listen to
today's "Democracy Now" in its entirety and then revisit the question in
the subject heading. The civil rights abuses are no longer academic
questions.

http://www.democracynow.org

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/5/glenn_greenwald_on_bradley_manning_prosecutor

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/5/new_funding_group_calls_for_100

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/5/importing_the_war_on_terror_glenn

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/5/sharing_the_internet_new_commotion_wireless

[Steve from Colorado]

See my reply to your more recent insults under the current subject.

[JohnJohnsn]

On Mar 5, 5:01 pm, Tiefe Scheiße <du...@lilldm.dnc.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 08:43:43 -0800 (PST), JohnJohnsn

> <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Read and "compress" this, Scheißekopf:

The NICS Report Followup

The FBI has made their intentions formally known, with the June 4
issuance of proposed regulations for the National Instant Check
System. The McClure-Volkmer Act has no impact on the FBI's plans
(McClure-Volkmer blanketly prohibits recording gun sale and gun owner
information in any government facility, as the FBI plans to do). The
FBI cites the Brady law as justification for recording gun buyers, but
Brady itself repeats the McClure-Volkmer prohibition against any form
of record keeping (verbatim quote at end). Gun buyers will be recorded
by at least three independent systems (NCIC, NICS, III) and kept on
line for a period to be determined solely by the FBI (the NCIC
apparently will save records the longest). Most published reports have
focused on the background check system only, ignoring the other two
which have apparently been creating prohibited lists for some time,
and will continue to do so. Long-term backup is not discussed (but is
a fundamental element of any large-scale database). Although silent
for a ponderously long time, the NRA has taken a strong position
against the gun-owner registration plan in their formal response to
BATF's proposed regulations. Their position was made known recently in
a broadcast fax alert, on their website, and in hearings before the
House Judiciary Crime Subcommittee (chaired by Bob Barr of Georgia).
They have also come out vigorously against the FBI's intention to
create and levy its own taxes. Unfortunately the NRA is also
supporting Bob Barr's "fix-it" bill.

http://www.gunlaws.com/nicsfup.htm

Here's you even more details about Brady, NICS, the non-prosecutions
of Brady law/NICS law violations; as well as history of how "lists"
lead to "confiscations::

"Gun Control Facts."
By James D. Agresti and Reid K. Smith.
Just Facts, September 13, 2010.
Revised 2/11/13

http://justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

>
> You've proven you will lie to defame anyone that doesn't do what
> you think they should.
>

You're the proven Liar, Scheißekopf:

http://klaus.webege.com/dudu/dudu.htm
Deep Dudu's FORTRESS OF LIES
Now With 140 Documented
Lies, Falsehoods, Fabrications, Distortions, and Deceptions!

>
> Thanks for proving you don't have a clue either. but I knew that.
>

You're "clue" is posted above, Scheißekopf: read and "compress" it --
IF you can, that is.

“Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of
the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right or that it's
too much of a public safety hazard don't see the danger in the big
picture. They're courting disaster by encouraging others to use the
same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like.”
--Alan Morton Dershowitz, Liberal lawyer, jurist, and political
commentator

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...

> You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.

They could easily be used to infringe upon our 2nd Amendment rights as well
as our 4th Amendment rights, and even our rights to privacy.

That's not even considering that the federal government has absolutely NO
authority to impose such checks.

> You might as well face it but a universal background check requirement
> is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.

Sorry, but only by giving up is it inevitable, so there is no reason to stop
fighting it and every reason to do so.

> You would be much
> better served by participating in compromise

What compromise?

What are gun owners getting in return?

>and getting a good system
> designed that we can use to filter out the criminals but doesn't
> infringe on the civil liberties of law biding citizens.

Already proposed and which you've already rejected because it doesn't
require governmental permission, oversight, and a means for back door gun
registration.

> It CAN be
> done but taking a zero compromise stance on anything will only serve
> to make it worse.

Ok. Make it a requirement that each buyer has to see current and valid
government issued photo ID.

Then include something on all government issued ID to indicate if that
person is prohibited from firearms ownership.

There you go. A perfectly good universal background check system that
doesn't infringe on the civil liberties of law abiding citizens.

Somehow, I bet you will reject this proposal yet again.

> As I explained to Scout, UBCdb (universal background check database)
> is NOT a universally readable database wide open to the public that
> collects personal information from gun owners and makes it available
> to everybody.

Well, it is open to the public in that anyone has to be able to enter a name
and get a result.

Second, the very fact that people can enter names at random is a violation
of law abiding people's civil rights because anyone can conduct a background
check on them anytime they chose to do so.

Further access to the system will be public, which means there is a
possibility that one could bypass security and gain direct access to the
database itself.

Second, it still allows the government access to ALL this information. Which
is a problem. Since the FBI is already running a gun registration scheme in
direct violation of the law. So why do you think this system wouldn't be
misused for a similar purpose?

> That is absolutely fucking ridiculous, and is an ideal
> example of just how uniformed you people are.

No, there are valid reasons to question the need, validity and even security
for such a system. Nor have you produced any valid reason why law abiding
people should have to seek governmental permission anytime they chose to
exercise their Constitutional rights.

> Unauthorized people are
> NOT going to be able to go to a website and do searches and pull up
> personal information about people.

Sure, except that people have done just that with other systems.

> It does NOT work that way.

No, it's not INTENDED to work that way, but given a flaw in the system it's
possible to make it work that way.

> As a
> matter of fact, the system can be designed so it doesn't need to
> collect ANY information about the seller or purchaser.

Sure, and we really believe that, particularly since that now means it would
be legally impossible to tell if a background check was actually preformed.

Is this what you are suggesting?

To mandate a background check, and then provide no means to see if such a
check was actually performed?

> That is not
> the point.

Of course not because if it were you might actually have to explain how you
can require a background check and then not have any means to show if it
were actually done.

>The point is the db collects information on CRIMINAL
> activity.

Sorry, it would collect information on all those checked, and since the
seller would probably have to enter their data as well, that information
would be collected. Then you would probably have to enter in the specific
gun being transferred so that authorities could insure that the gun that X
now owns had a background check performed when they bought it, and that you
did one when you sold it.

So, right off, we have seller, buyer, and the specific gun.

Looks like the key elements for back door gun registration.

Sure, they CLAIM they would never use it for that, but then we have the FBI
doing something just like that in violation of federal law and continuing to
do so even though it's known they are doing it.

Excuse me if I don't trust those that seek to limit, restrict, prohibit or
ban my guns as being honest and trust worthy.

Hell, just look at yourself. You are neither, yet you're asking us to trust
your claims on the limits of such a system and how it would never ever be
misused.

> If you aren't a criminal, you don't even need to be in the
> database.

Fine, then you're telling me I will never need a background check done on
me, since otherwise I will be in the database.

> So the notion that a UBCdb will lead to registration and
> confiscation is also absolutely absurd.

Except that the FBI is already doing this with current systems in violation
of the law and there is absolutely no reason to assume they wouldn't extend
that program to this new system.

[Scout]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RPuZs.485369$z83....@fed12.iad...

> Maybe the NICS data base *IS* a civil rights abuse?

Given you may have to submit to a check to exercise your Constitutional
right....such a claim could be supported.

I wonder what the ACLU would say if you had to get approval from a
government system in order to buy a new newspaper, magazine or book?

Bet they would complain how that's a violation of the 1st Amendment.

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:vescj8lr63i8raa7f...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:11:54 -0500, "betweentheeyes"
> <between...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:
>
>>"deep" wrote in message
>>news:ch5cj8ph7ts1k3igi...@4ax.com...
>>
>>On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:57:29 -0500, "betweentheeyes"
>><between...@defendingThe2nd.org> wrote:
>>
>>>"deep" wrote in message
>>>news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil
>>>>himself.
>>>>You might as well face it but a universal background check
>>>>requirement
>>>>is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>As usual, you could not be more wrong.
>>>
>>>Can you be more specific?
>>
>>Yes I can, but of no value to point out your flaws. You lack the
>>ability to reflect on your actions and words.
>
> That's a cop-out. This is not about me. Make some intelligent
> comments on the functioning of the database perhaps.

Just as soon as you do.

As it is all I see are a bunch of empty assertions about how wonderful it
will be and how it could never ever be misused by anyone including the
government, to anything that would be even remotely a violation of our
rights.

Meanwhile I hear that SCOTUS has approved unlimited wiretaps unless the
person can prove that the government is engaged in doing so against them.

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:9jvcj8dgbgsvrn6kg...@4ax.com...

But they aren't, and according the the VP they have no time to do so.

[Stormin Mormon]

A literal reply to a comical quip. I guess I wasn't clear, about being
comical. Well, sorry, I guess I didn't do something right.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

.

"Steve from Colorado" <steve.fro...@cocks.net> wrote in message

news:kh5uu8$kup$1...@dont-email.me...

[Stormin Mormon]

I think some folks call it "prior restraint". But, I'm likely mistaken.

As I've commented earlier, all the government has to do, to block all legal
sales is.... nothing. No NICS, no sales.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:kh61nv$21m$1...@dont-email.me...

[deep]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:13:08 -0500, "Scout"
<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>Except that the FBI is already doing this with current systems in violation
>of the law and there is absolutely no reason to assume they wouldn't extend
>that program to this new system.
>
>

So that's a no then.

[Steve from Colorado]

On 3/5/2013 5:42 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> A literal reply to a comical quip. I guess I wasn't clear, about being
> comical. Well, sorry, I guess I didn't do something right.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org

I was just pulling your leg, figuratively.

[JohnJohnsn]

On Mar 5, 6:19 pm, "Scout" <me4g...@verizon,net> wrote:
>
>
> "deep" wrote in message news:9jvcj8dgbgsvrn6kg...@4ax.com...
>

>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 12:36:39 -0800, "Oglethorpe" <antike...@go.com>

>> wrote:
>
>>> <deep> wrote in message news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil himself.
>
>>> They are not enforcred.
>
>> Well then they need to be.
>
> But they aren't, and according the the VP they have no time to do so.
>

Scout: how _dare_ you throw "Plugs" Biden's statement to NRA's James
Baker at the Tiefe Scheiße?!? :)

“And to your point, Mr. Baker, regarding the lack of prosecutions on
lying on Form 4473s, we simply don’t have the time or manpower to
prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that
answers a question inaccurately.”
--Joe "Plugs" Biden

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:ff7dj8ps8eft5ldbh...@4ax.com...

I acknowledge your denial....and your dishonesty.

[Winston_Smith]

Since I be votin� for Obama, my taxes be gone up, my employer stop
offerin' health insurance, and my guns be taked away.

Damn you, George Bush!

[deep]

I asked if anybody knew of any civil rights violations coming from the
NICS database and you couldn't come up with any, so your answer is no
then. You don't know of any.

So since this FFL BGC system has never been a problem, whats the
problem with extending that to private sales?

[Winston_Smith]

On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 21:38:37 -0700, deep wrote:

>I asked if anybody knew of any civil rights violations coming from the
>NICS database and you couldn't come up with any, so your answer is no
>then. You don't know of any.

The question is not what may or may not have happened in the past
under an old law.

The proper question is what will happen under the new fantasy law you
guys want to foist on us. Even Hitler was a good leader in his first
few years.

>So since this FFL BGC system has never been a problem, whats the
>problem with extending that to private sales?

In a nutshell - Obama.

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:fvhdj89hm387iioog...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:35:14 -0500, "Scout"
> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"deep" wrote in message news:ff7dj8ps8eft5ldbh...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:13:08 -0500, "Scout"
>>> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Except that the FBI is already doing this with current systems in
>>>>violation
>>>>of the law and there is absolutely no reason to assume they wouldn't
>>>>extend
>>>>that program to this new system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> So that's a no then.
>>
>>I acknowledge your denial....and your dishonesty.
>>
> I asked if anybody knew of any civil rights violations coming from the
> NICS database and you couldn't come up with any, so your answer is no
> then. You don't know of any.

I already told you that there are. You chose to ignore that.

[Stormin Mormon]

Was that you, honey? I thought it was just morning leg cramps.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

.

"Steve from Colorado" <steve.fro...@cocks.net> wrote in message

news:kh6721$of6$1...@dont-email.me...

[slate_leeper]

Yes, involving ME.

It took lots of money and a great NRA-recommended lawyer to get it all
straightened out.




--
Protect your civil rights!
Let the politicians know how you feel.
Join or donate to the NRA today!
http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

[Stormin Mormon]

There was a video that went around, a year or so ago. Aparently James
Robinson is on the TSA no fly list, and there is no appeals procedure. They
interviewed two James Robinson who had been blocked from flying, or from
curb side passenger drop off, or some such. One is a licensed pilot, who has
permission to carry a firearm in the planes. Other one is about seven years
old, and loves video games.

Did you have one of those "we made a mistake, and it's your job to prove us
wrong" moments with NICS?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"slate_leeper" <bycy...@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:4egej85o1lggl5oih...@4ax.com...

[deep]

On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 04:50:05 -0500, "Scout"

<me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"deep" wrote in message news:fvhdj89hm387iioog...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:35:14 -0500, "Scout"
>> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"deep" wrote in message news:ff7dj8ps8eft5ldbh...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:13:08 -0500, "Scout"
>>>> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Except that the FBI is already doing this with current systems in
>>>>>violation
>>>>>of the law and there is absolutely no reason to assume they wouldn't
>>>>>extend
>>>>>that program to this new system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So that's a no then.
>>>
>>>I acknowledge your denial....and your dishonesty.
>>>
>> I asked if anybody knew of any civil rights violations coming from the
>> NICS database and you couldn't come up with any, so your answer is no
>> then. You don't know of any.
>
>I already told you that there are. You chose to ignore that.
>
>

No you didn't. You whined about having to background check your
sister. That's all. And that's a logical fallacy btw. Wanna take a
stab at which one?

[Winston_Smith]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:18:00 -0500, slate_leeper
<bycy...@spamex.com> wrote:

>Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

Guns kill people.
Spoons made me fat.

[deep]

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:18:00 -0500, slate_leeper
<bycy...@spamex.com> wrote:

>Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

No, it's like checking the sober people to make sure they are, so that
you can catch those that aren't. If you're sober you shouldn't have a
problem with that. Anything else is anarchy.

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

>deep wrote in talk.politics.guns :

LOL

So you don't have a problem with the police searching your home when
they feel like it? You're not hiding anything illegal, are you? Good!
Not a problem then!

>Anything else is anarchy.

You're lying. You don't know the meaning of the word.

[Juan Alderete]

"deep" wrote in message news:mppej8too1rbg2d8c...@4ax.com...

#####
How does DooDoo propose to check all sober people?
DooDoo is in a Deep, Circular Spin-Cycle again.
Must be all that Ambien that he said consumed.

[Gray Guest]

deep wrote in news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com:

>
>

The very fact that you have top ask the government to exercise a right is a
violation.

--
Refusenik #1

Libs suffer from Eleutherophobia. And there is no cure.

Obama called the SEALs and THEY got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama,
THEY GOT DENIED. Fuck Obama

[Stormin Mormon]

I can think of a couple other moments where citizens have to get permission
to exercise a right.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA17B9F7D7E587We...@78.46.70.116...

[Gray Guest]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:_cOZs.1118$K_5...@fe03.iad:

> I can think of a couple other moments where citizens have to get
> permission to exercise a right.

All of which make for good reasons to remove the entity to which the
citizen must ask.

[Stormin Mormon]

Let me know when you take out the DMV, I want to watch!

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA17BA4763649EWe...@78.46.70.116...

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:jfkej8ld85n88ngka...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 04:50:05 -0500, "Scout"
> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"deep" wrote in message news:fvhdj89hm387iioog...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:35:14 -0500, "Scout"
>>> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"deep" wrote in message
>>>>news:ff7dj8ps8eft5ldbh...@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:13:08 -0500, "Scout"
>>>>> <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Except that the FBI is already doing this with current systems in
>>>>>>violation
>>>>>>of the law and there is absolutely no reason to assume they wouldn't
>>>>>>extend
>>>>>>that program to this new system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> So that's a no then.
>>>>
>>>>I acknowledge your denial....and your dishonesty.
>>>>
>>> I asked if anybody knew of any civil rights violations coming from the
>>> NICS database and you couldn't come up with any, so your answer is no
>>> then. You don't know of any.
>>
>>I already told you that there are. You chose to ignore that.
>>
>>
> No you didn't.

Yes, I did, and you even quoted me saying so.

[Scout]

"deep" wrote in message news:mppej8too1rbg2d8c...@4ax.com...

Actually, I do have a problem with that. It's called unreasonable search.

If they have no cause to pull me over, then they have no reason to stop me,
no reason to search me, no reason why I shouldn't be able to just drive
right through their check point without stopping.


The fact that they stop everyone or ever Xth person doesn't alter the basic
issue that it is an unreasonable search without cause.

But then I see you prefer authoritarianism and you will do anything the
authorities tell you to do.

[Oglethorpe]

<deep> wrote in message news:jfkej8ld85n88ngka...@4ax.com...

Why shoould anyone have to rquire a family member to do a background check
to receive a gift?

[Oglethorpe]

<deep> wrote in message news:mppej8too1rbg2d8c...@4ax.com...

Obviously, you're drunk on our ass.

[Gray Guest]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:amPZs.559854$6F.3...@fed11.iad:

What right are we talking about now?

[Stormin Mormon]

We gorillas are beating our chests, and picking
fleas out of each others fur. Not much to see,
here. Someone throw another bannana!

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA17BECD06A785We...@78.46.70.116...

[RD Sandman]

"Oglethorpe" <anti...@go.com> wrote in
news:N4OdnXuQ_MsZbarM...@mchsi.com:

The law will probably have exception for that. At least that is what is
being bandied about.

--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

Those who can laugh without cause have either
found the true meaning of happiness.....
Or have gone stark raving mad.

[Gray Guest]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:erWZs.533804$7U.4...@fed04.iad:

> We gorillas are beating our chests, and picking
> fleas out of each others fur. Not much to see,
> here. Someone throw another bannana!
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:XnsA17BECD06A785We...@78.46.70.116...
>
> What right are we talking about now?
>

And I thought Mormons didn't drink.

[Oglethorpe]

"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:XnsA17C692A7...@216.196.121.131...

How about legacies?

[Stormin Mormon]

Most don't.

Do you recognize humor when you see it?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA17CD675D1C59We...@78.46.70.116...

> We gorillas are beating our chests, and picking
> fleas out of each others fur. Not much to see,
> here. Someone throw another bannana!
>

[RD Sandman]

"Oglethorpe" <anti...@go.com> wrote in news:obWdnaKOie-
P_KTMnZ2dn...@mchsi.com:

I think the exception is for immediate family so that would include
legacies being handed down through generations. One other thing to keep
in mind is that those federal gun control laws do not apply to black
powder weaponry so that old flintlock shouldn't be a problem. ;)

[pyotr filipivich]

"betweentheeyes" <between...@defendingThe2nd.org> on Tue, 5 Mar
2013 10:57:29 -0500 typed in alt.survival the following:
>"deep" wrote in message
>news:7r1cj8hp6gsrsch32...@4ax.com...
>
>>You all act like background checks are the tool of the Devil
>>himself.
>>You might as well face it but a universal background check
>>requirement
>>is inevitable so you might as well get used to it.
><snip>
>
>As usual, you could not be more wrong.

Deep just needs to have a background check before he buys
anything. Guns, Ammo, Gnaja, the munchies, electricity, connectivity.


>
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.

[Gray Guest]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:zWf_s.23857$fv2....@fed14.iad:

Yes I do. But you had deviated so far from the subject that I couldn't
follow you.

[Stormin Mormon]

I've been known to deviate, bloviate, extrapolate, and usually while
masticating. Won't be the first time I thought of some item of interest that
was totally off in space, and left everyone wondering what I was saying.
Just part of my thought process, I guess. Sorry to have been any trouble.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA17DC078264C5We...@78.46.70.116...

[CanopyCo]

On Mar 6, 7:42 pm, "Oglethorpe" <antike...@go.com> wrote:
>
> Why shoould anyone have to rquire a family member to do a background check
> to receive a gift?

The reason that the background checks exist in the first place is to
keep guns out of the hands of people that obviously shouldn’t have
one.

Mentally retarded, psychologically unstable, or criminals are examples
of people that should not own guns.
Anyone not mentally retarded or psychologically unstable would know
that.

The fact that it is your momma, brother, or son does not change the
fact that they do not have the qualities needed to be a responsible
gun owner.

[Gray Guest]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:IpG_s.2$pP...@fed05.iad:

Hey, I can't tell you how many times something came out of my mouth that
sounded a lot better while it was echoing around inside my head.

[Stormin Mormon]

Sadly, we went from "shall not be infringed" to "need to prove you're
qualified, first".

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"CanopyCo" <Junk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19b8afe1-9660-45b0...@k8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

[Stormin Mormon]

For me, something I read, reminds me of some-
thing from years ago. Of course, the gentle reader
wasn't there, and doesn't know what I am talking
about.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message

news:XnsA17E7648D3297We...@78.46.70.116...

Hey, I can't tell you how many times something came out of my mouth that
sounded a lot better while it was echoing around inside my head.

[Nicholas]

On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 18:35:17 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>For me, something I read, reminds me of some-
>thing from years ago. Of course, the gentle reader
>wasn't there, and doesn't know what I am talking
>about.

your first and only blow job?

[Gray Guest]

Nicholas <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:a0jnj890oeqetf3cf...@4ax.com:

Another barely sentient life form announces itself.

[Winston_Smith]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 Gray Guest wrote:
>"Stormin Mormon" wrote
>> "Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote

>>>
>>> And I thought Mormons didn't drink.
>>

>> Most don't. Do you recognize humor when you see it?
>>

>Yes I do. But you had deviated so far from the subject that I couldn't
>follow you.

Stormin' likes to screw up threads by top posting. Then he wonders why
readers get confused over his posts.

Stormin' likes to start new threads to continue a topic from an
existing thread. At the same time, he jumps to new subjects within an
old thread.

He also likes to bitch if someone drifts with one of "his" threads.

One might think the lad is "special". Needs lots of attention.

His other classic is whenever he says something stupid and gets called
on it, it magically becomes "humor".

The lad is blameless. The fault is always yours.

[Nicholas]

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 17:37:08 +0000 (UTC), Gray Guest
<No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote:

>Nicholas <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote in
>news:a0jnj890oeqetf3cf...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 18:35:17 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
>><cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>For me, something I read, reminds me of some-
>>>thing from years ago. Of course, the gentle reader
>>>wasn't there, and doesn't know what I am talking
>>>about.
>>
>> your first and only blow job?
>>
>>>
>>>Christopher A. Young
>>>Learn more about Jesus
>>> www.lds.org
>>>.
>>>
>>>"Gray Guest" <No_email...@wahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:XnsA17E7648D3297We...@78.46.70.116...
>>>
>>>Hey, I can't tell you how many times something came out of my mouth that
>>>sounded a lot better while it was echoing around inside my head.
>>
>>
>
>Another barely sentient life form announces itself.

Chris wears a sign on his front and back that says "Kick Me"
It's hard to resist.

Lg

[CanopyCo]

On Mar 9, 11:35 am, Gray Guest <No_email_for_...@wahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hey, I can't tell you how many times something came out of my mouth that
> sounded a lot better while it was echoing around inside my head.
>
>
>
>
>

You too?
We should start a club.

Be my luck that they would just take our club and beat me with it.
;-)

[Winston Smith]

On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:06:17 -0700, deep wrote:

>Anybody ever hear of any civil rights abuses coming from the NICS database?

This post comes to mind.

From: "CS"
Newsgroups: alt.survival
Subject: This is how they'll take your guns...
Message-ID: <PZSdnfNx5rXphYHM...@supernews.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/this-is-how-the-dhs-seizes-your-guns/