Response to Challenge :My Personal Equipment List <again>.
Geoffrey L. Hardin
Well, recently I posted an article in the thread "Need
a Basic Equipment List" that seemed to piss off an
author so much so that he proceeded to make some rather
rude and adolescent threats not only to me via private
email, but through other parties as well. My apologies
to all the others who were forced to listen to this
person's diatribe.
Not being one to sit down and thump my chest, as a
rule, I am hereby responding this individual's
challenge to post my equipment list so that he may
publicly humiliate me based upon my errant and
uninformed choices. I invite all persons to do so at
their whim and convenience.
To the testosterone-laden challenger : Lay on,
MacDuff!
Note to others who must wade through this, yes this is
a Repost of an earlier article which I updated slightly
as I have recently acquired a couple of items (most
notably the SIDS and protective masks). Some of the
explanatory text has changed, but most of the items
remain the same. If anyone wishes to challenge me to a
public demonstration of these items and the fact that I
do have them, I will happily do so at the next
Indianapolis 1500 Gun & Knife Show, on the Evening of
Saturday, March 20, 1999 at a restaurant in
Indianapolis during the Second (Informal)
misc.survivalism/alt.survival Munch (Details to be
posted here in the next couple of weeks). You bring
yours, we'll bring ours.
One more caveat, I don't know why, exactly, but
Netscape seems to be screwing up my soft-returns in the
text of my posted articles. This results in broken
text lines and makes my article difficult to read. I
apologize for this inconvenience and if anyone can help
me resolve this, please let me know.
Please Note, in the spirit of progress, I am no longer
using the term "Bug-out Bag" (BoB), rather I am
choosing the (more) politically-correct Personal
Evacuation/Relocation Kit (PE/RK).
Where necessary, I will post the brand names for the
equipment. I neither work for, nor profit from, any of
these organizations. I use and recommend their
equipment because I, personally, think it's good. I
have used all this equipment in one form or another.
Some of it was while I was in the military, some more
recently on numerous camping trips. There may be some
persons for whom this equipment is not appropriate.
This collection of gear is designed for the environment
and climates of the midwest. Specifically
Central to Southern Illinois and Indiana. Some of this
may not be appropriate for, say, mountainous
or arid regions. I am assuming (nay, praying) that
there will be no polar shift or drastic climatological
changes. Temperature extremes range from -20 to 105
degrees fahrenheit.
Also note that I have prepared for a "fight-if-you
must" contingency. Some will, undoubtedly, rant
and rave over having too much of this, or too little of
that. Well, I am willing to listen to such rants and
raves IF you are capable of intelligently discussing
why my choices are inappropriate or wrong rather than
explaining in grisly minutiae how you and your merry
band of roving survivalists will kick my hairy, white
ass if you ever meet me in the woods post-TEOTWAWKI (or
any other time).
Two other comments : Caveat Emptor and Your Mileage May
Vary.
Basic Gear :
AR15 flattop, collapsible stock, 14.5" heavy barrel,
M4 Double heat-shielded handguard, Vortex
Flash suppressor, Mark Brown rear sighting system, ACOG
optical sight., Trijicon tritium front and
rear sight inserts.
Seven - 30rd magazines.
420 rds 5.56x45mm, 62-grain Lake City Ammo (FMJBT w/
Steel Penetrator). Mil Spec in three
140-rd bandoliers. First 210 rds goes into the
magazines in harness, rest stays in buttpack (Below).
Heckler & Koch USP45, Trijicon Night Sights. Pistol
stays in Bianchi UM84 Nylon Flap holster w/
extra thumbstrap.
Three 10-rd magazines, one in pistol, two in Bianchi
magazine pouch.
Eagle LBV-USA. Six AR15 magazines (30-rd) fit in chest
pockets. Two lower "grenade" pockets
hold a pair of Simmons waterproof minibinoculars and a
Military Lensatic Tritium-illuminated
Compass (Cammenga).
Blackhawk Padded Pistol Belt holding : One Benchmade
AFO knife in Bianchi single mag pouch,
Bianchi UM84 Flap Holster (for USP above), two 1-quart
military canteens in covers (one with
aluminum canteen cup, both with one bottle Potable Aqua
in outside pocket, both also have a single
large foil packet of Gatorade inside a Glad Slide-loc
bag in between canteen and cover), one Eagle
knife sheath holding a Busse Steelheart and sharpening
stone,
Buttpack : attached to Pistol belt above and supported
by the LBV : two complete MRE's, 200 or
so strike-anywhere matches, 50 British Lifeboat
Matches, Gerber Strike-Force (flint & Steel), Fox-40
"pealess" whistle, Suunto "SmokeKiller" compass,
Pelican 4-AA flashlight (waterproof to 2000') w/ both
clear and red lenses, 16-AA NiMh Batteries, solar
battery recharger, Waterproof Notepad w/ cover, Fisher
Space Pen, 100' 550 cord, Small fishing kit in 35mm
film case, 2-packs of Quench Gum, 3 Powerbars,
equipment repair kit, big roll of toilet paper, PUR
Scout Waterpurifier (one of the new models), two tiny
Nalgene bottles (one containing mink oil, one with
black shoe polish - for those emergency field
inspections, ya never know when you may have to pass
muster for the local militia commander!), two tubes of
camo face paint, P38 can-opener, two 4-oz bottles
Maxi-Deet bug spray, one tube sunscreen SPF-30 PABA
Free (thank you very much), three rolled-up trashbags -
DAMN.
I typed this up as I pulled it out, so please forgive
the order. I didn't realize I had all that crap in
there. The buttpack is quite full. Trust me when I
say it's all really in there. The seventh 30-rd AR
mag (which will go in the rifle) sits on the very top
of all this.
Also attached to the outside of the buttpack on the
sidewebbing is a Blackhawk Radio Pouch with
a Kenwood G71-A, dual-band transceiver and a Eagle
waterproof headset (Author's Update: this choice of
radio is currently being reconsidered, I found out that
Yaesu has a dual-band portable in the same size/weight
range that has a VERY wide reception range. . .
reportedly the largest in the industry. . . and still
maintains the milspec 810 C/D/E ratings for
water-resistance and shock). The pouch is rather large
and the radio rather small, an extra 16 AA alkaline
batteries fit into the bottom of the pouch in another
Glad Slide-lock bag.
NOTE: everything in all my bags are kept in these nifty
little bags. My wife cringes when I go to the
store as I almost always end up buying a box of both
the 1-qt and 1-gallon bags. They seem to stay
closed much, much better than standard "ziplock"-type
bags. I get the blue box, heavy weight instead of the
thinner pink box. Even MRE's are removed from all
their packaging, the contents written on the sides of
the Retort pouches in permanent marker and kept in the
1-gallon Slidelock bags.
Warm Weather Bag (basically spring through late fall)
Blackhawk Phoenix Pack (my only complaint about this
bag is that it doesn't have any really decent
attachment points on the outside).
One 90-oz Platypus water bladder (copy of the
Camelback), this bladder fits into an inside pocket
specifically designed to do so. The drinking tube
feeds out a slot in the top of the Phoenix pack and
down the side of the left shoulder (Blackhawk puts a
nifty velcro sleeve on both straps to hold the tube in
place with the bite valve right at mouth level). This
took the place of my 2-quart canteens.
In pack : 1 heavy-duty waterproof bag, 6 Complete
MRE's, One full set of clothing (One top and one pair
of pants, either in a neutral color (grey, khaki or OD)
or in Woodland camo) in 100% cotton ripstop, 4 pair
Thorlo Combat boot socks (Olive), 1-pair underwear, one
set of compression/sliding shorts (great for long
walks), 1 dark-brown short-sleeve 3-button henley style
T-shirt, 1-pr leather rappelling gloves dyed black,
1-Thermarest Military self-inflating mattress,
1-thinsulate poncho liner, 5-rolled trashbags, 2- rolls
toilet paper, 1 wet weather top, 1-cordura waterproof
mapcase w/ maps of area), 100 strike- anywhere matches,
1 Esbit stove, 3-tubes hexamine fuel, 1-hygeine kit, 1
brown cotton towel and one Cold-Steel Spetsnaz shovel.
3-more ubes Maxi-Deet, one mosquito net (the larger
one), one hammock, and one old-style PUR Scout
waterfilter (as a back-up)
Attached to the outside of pack in Blackhawk Accessory
pouches designed just for the purpose :
1 MMRPS multi-purpose Poncho system (a nifty little
contraption made of a Gore-tex-like material
that is basically an over-sized poncho which has
strategically placed slots and tabs allowing it to be
used as a poncho, long-coat, short-coat, anorak,
sleeping bagcover, one-person tent, sit-shelter,
lean-to and standing tent. A zip-in mosquito netting
allows it to be used in the summer and if you have
another person with you who has another MMRPS, the two
of them can be zipped together making a tent large
enough for three people (at least two adults, one
10-year old human child, and one 9-year old canine) and
all their gear. (Author's update, anyone wanting
information on the MMRPS please contact me. I now have
photos scanned in of the system in both the single and
multiple-person setups).
In the other Accessory pouch is a rather extensive
First-Aid kit (I may post the contents later, I don't
want to pull all that stuff out right now and I can't
find the inventory list on my 'puter). Strapped to
the top of the pack is the Goretex shell of a
multi-climate sleeping bag (see below, but it has two
insulative bags, one black the other green which can
all be zipped together for temps from -20 to
40+).
Cold Weather Bag :
Take all the above and shove it into a CFP-90 (for me)
or a Lowe-Alpine Crossbow (for Wifey-poo). Add the
following :
One heavy-duty reflective space blanket, Multi-climate
sleeping bag, one set polypro thermal
underwear, 4 pair wool socks, 2-pair Manzenella cold
weather gloves, Wool watch cap, 1 wool
scarf, 1-Coleman multifuel stove, 1-aluminum fuel
canister, 1-set Goretex reversible waterproof
outerwear (woodland - snowcamo), one cooking set
(Evolution2 non-stick coating), 1-thinsulate field
jacket liner and one thinsulate field pants liner, and
a reversible pack cover (white camo/brown camo).
(*Author's Update : We went away from the Goretex
reversible suits (the ones as sold by U.S. Cavalry.
They didn't hold up very well under rough field
conditions. They may prove to be okay for someone who
doesn't use them unless they expect to bug-out, but we
actually use these when we go hunting or traipsing
around the woods. The elbows, knees and shoulders all
ended up wearing out too fast. We just recently bought
the standard U.S. Army ECWCS Goretex sets (Gen. 1) for
our kits.)
Now, next to my bags in the closet sits a couple of
things :
One is 2 gallons of distilled water for each of the
packs. These will be poured directly into the canteens
and water bladders before we go. This way, if the
situation is so dire that we cannot get water from the
spouts or whatever, we have a quick supply on hand.
The others are two small gym-type bags. One bag
contains two complete sets of clothing for each of us.
One set is of neutrally-colored BDU-style clothing
(e.g., grey, khaki, OD, brown), socks, boots, Jacket
(when appropriate), gloves, liners, underwear, t-shirt
and hat.
The other is the same stuff only in Woodland Camo.
I realize that not all situations that may arise will
be a shoot-em-up scenario. The neutral clothing will
blend more easily into such situations. Likewise, our
guncases are the Eagle Discreet cases which
are rectangular, rather than the typical funky
gun-shape and are black.
As I stated, this gear is for the worst-case
scenarios. I do not advocate evacuating or bugging-out
as the primary response to bad situations. I do,
however, advise others to prepare for it first.
Everything carried in these packs can be used if you
stay put.
We do have extensive provisions (MRE's, freeze-dried
foods, large multi-fuel stoves, lighting, etc.)
just in case we are lucky enough not to have to
evacuate.
I would also suggest to those preparing to evacuate
that they find a location to which they intend to
evacuate. I would highly recommend against the mindset
of "Aw hell, I'll just head for the hills when
the s*** hits the fan." You may be surprised to find
you're not the only one with that thought. It is also
doubtful that you can carry enough on your back to
sustain you for a great period of time.
Yes, I do have a lot of stuff in my packs. Most of it
is convenience stuff. I am very, very lucky. I got to
go through several survival-oriented courses while in
the Army. I would daresay that I could
survive in relative comfort with nothing but a knife.
I wouldn't want to do it, but I'm pretty confident
in my ability to do so. The idea with these packs is
to use the supplies in the packs first, then go to
the buttpack. If the pack is no longer needed or
desired, the Accessory Packs containing the MMRPS and
First Aid kit can be attached to the back of the LBV.
The following are additions to our bags that will be
made in the next few months :
1 MSA Millenium Protective Mask w/ 4 NIOSH-approved NBC
filters (or at least the C2A1 military cannisters).
These masks are currently being made by MSA and are not
available (according to MSA Customer
Service).(*Author's Note : We are currently using the
MSA Advantage 1000 protective masks due to occurrences
in recent times. . .we still intend to get the
Millenium when they become available.)
1 set of Seismic Intrusion Detection devices. Several
companies are selling these little devices (about the
size of two packs of cigarettes ) that are emplaced in
the ground on likely avenues of approaches. They
detect movement by using accelerometers which are set
off by anything impacting the ground (footsteps (even
tiptoeing) or vehicular traffic for example). They
then send out a coded alarm on a frequency which can be
received by our Kenwood G71-A's (or any other
transceiver that can receive 134.5 mhz). This greatly
helps with security around the campsite at night.
(Author's Update : We have, since this article was
posted last year, obtained the SIDS through Survivor39
who posts occasionally in this newsgroup. I posted a
short article on the effectiveness of this equipment
and my intent to carry it in our gear).
Night Vision gear, most probably one of the Elcan's for
each rifle and maybe even one of the new
AN-PVS7A's. (Author's Note : This is still in the
"hmmm. . .do I really need it?" stage. Yes, I can
afford them, but I'm having a hard time justifying
$3-5k for a new, top-of-the-line night vision device.
I wouldn't want to carry a PVS-2 or PVS-4 around,
they're too big and take odd battery sizes. So I'm
limited in my choices to low-grade Russian equipment or
Gen III U.S. stuff which is rather costly.).
But, none of this stuff should take the place of
education or training. You have to first know how
to use what you have. Whatever your gear, take it out
and use it. Only then will you learn if it
works and gain confidence that your equipment won't let
you down A serious evacuation in the middle of a
blinding blizzard is not the time to find out that your
tent leaks or won't hold up under an inch of wet snow.
Fleeing a rioting mob is a crappy way to find out that
the little plastic D-rings holding your pack's
shoulderstraps in place really aren't up to holding the
weight of your gear.
Sit down and assess your situation. Figure out what
you will need and be very critical of your
equipment. Don't buy something if you aren't pretty
sure of it's effectiveness. Ask around while you
still can. I'm sure that you will find more than one
person's input as to what you should have.
At least, I'm sure that *I* will have a lot of input as
to where I went wrong or what equipment I
should or should not have. Of course, I always welcome
constructive comments or criticism.
But as the one dude from the Fantastic 4 says :
Flame on!
Geoffrey L. Hardin,
geo...@abcs.com
(I earned all three Blankets. . .and have the DD214 to
prove it).
Christopher "Chris" Fisher
>filters (or at least the C2A1 military cannisters).
>These masks are currently being made by MSA and are not
>available (according to MSA Customer
>Service).(*Author's Note : We are currently using the
>MSA Advantage 1000 protective masks due to occurrences
>in recent times. . .we still intend to get the
>Millenium when they become available.)
Does MSA have an estimate as to when these will be available/cost?
Out of curiousity, I noticed that you have masks, but you didn't mention
having a Saratoga suit, NBC boots, and gloves, along with Chlorox bleach
spray to decontaminate with....
Also not mentioned was any sort of body amor, or a helmet.
Something else I didn't see, but which I've been considering, are Nomex CQB
coveralls as sold by Brigade Quartermaster, complemented by Bolle tac
goggles, nomex gloves with kevlar liners, and a Nomex (or Kevlar) baclava.
>Night Vision gear, most probably one of the Elcan's for
>each rifle and maybe even one of the new
>AN-PVS7A's. (Author's Note : This is still in the
>"hmmm. . .do I really need it?" stage. Yes, I can
>afford them, but I'm having a hard time justifying
>$3-5k for a new, top-of-the-line night vision device.
>I wouldn't want to carry a PVS-2 or PVS-4 around,
>they're too big and take odd battery sizes. So I'm
>limited in my choices to low-grade Russian equipment or
>Gen III U.S. stuff which is rather costly.).
Doesn't BQM sell the AN-PVS7B for $3000 or so? My understanding was that
this was only a generation II (II+?) system. This particular model was the
one I was considering, as it uses standard AA batteries.
You've got a lot of nice equipment though. I for one am impressed.
Although I am curious about the seeming omissions detailed above.
Director Mike S. Medintz
While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
"Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> spake:
>AR15 flattop, collapsible stock, 14.5" heavy barrel,
Is there any advantage that would make the ATF short rifle paperwork
worth the effort?
> (Author's Update: this choice of
>radio is currently being reconsidered, I found out that
>Yaesu has a dual-band portable in the same size/weight
>range that has a VERY wide reception range. . .
>reportedly the largest in the industry. . . and still
>maintains the milspec 810 C/D/E ratings for
>water-resistance and shock).
I assume you mean the FT-50. Damn fine radio. If you have the money,
I'd grab it in a heartbeat. It's the first (and only) HT that I like
better than the FT-51R that I already have.
> one Cold-Steel Spetsnaz shovel.
How has it held up? I haven't seen the Cold Steel model, but I've
never seen a folding shovel that wasn't just a little flimsy.
Also...foot powder?
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Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz
"Proverbs save us the trouble of thinking. What we call folk
wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity."-Ed Abbey
You don't spam me, and I don't pull your plug. Fair 'nuff?
Director Mike S. Medintz
While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
"Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> spake:
>Greetings all!
Since Geoff posted his list, I guess somebody might want mine:
One REI Traverse Newstar internal frame pack. The upper detachible
butt pack is loaded as follows:
First aid kit-I'm not going to dig it out right now.
Flashlight-2AA Mini-Mag Light. Spyderco Endura knife. About 250
strike-anywhere matches. One film canister with vasilene-loaded cotton
balls. Silva Ranger 15CL compass. Four powerbars. Six trioxane heat
tabs, with one steel cup. One bottle PolarPure. About 50 tea bags
(gotta have my caffeine). 2 dozen pieces of Nicorette. One Nalgene
lexan one-liter wide-mouth bottle with water (tap water, four drops of
plain bleach). Yaesu FT51R dual-band HT. About a dozen alkaline AA
batteries. Gerber Multi-Tool. Two bandannas. ABout 20 feet of
parachute cord. My old Illinois FOID (never hurts to have extra ID).
Pre-paid phone card and about $50 in cash. All of the above packed in
gallon-sized ziplock bags.
In the main compartment:
One change of clothes with long underwear and extra socks and towel.
One bar of soap. A small bottle of foot powder. Toothbrush. About one
pound of pre-mixed oatmeal, with a mess of brown sugar. Six ramen
packets. About a pound of venison jerky (I refuse to eat beef). Half a
pound of Jamaica Blue Mountain. (survival in style) MSR Whisperlite
stove with a liter of Coleman fuel. Two army-surplus ripstop ponchos,
with one liner. One Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp sleeping bag. Fifty feet
of parachute cord. One mil-surplus machete cut down to about 12". One
five-quart US surplus water carrier (full)
Not stored in the pack, but out where I can grab it in a hurry:
One small duffel bag containing a change of normal clothes,
toothbrush, razor, soap, and my passport.
Glock 21, with 3 ten round magazines of PMC Starfire. I haven't
coughed up for tritium yet. Uncle Mike's Pro-3 holster (don't ask me
why, but I actually like this one).
Remington 870 Express Magnum with 18.5" smoothbore slug barrel. four
rounds of Sellier and Bellot 00 buck in the magazine, five slugs in
the butt-cuff, and a bandolier with another 15 rounds of 00. If I ever
get around to building a proper scout rifle, I'll give this up.
I keep road maps of most of the midwest in my truck, along with topo
maps and a laminated E911 map of my entire county. I also have all of
the stuff that people should keep in their cars as a matter of course:
spare tire, jack, chocks, Fix-A-Flat, lug wrench, 3D Mag-Lite, extra
oil, ATF, brake fluid, coolant, wiper fluid, water, combo wrenches,
screwdrivers, prybar, shovel, pick, axe, funnel, tire gauge, extra AA
and D batteries, matches, first-aid kit, booster cables, siphon hose,
money, phone card, knife (Buck Special), K-40 CB, mag-mount antenna
and amp for 2M HT, and my fishing tackle (that way, I can go and have
fun without having to think too hard about it).
I don't do night vision-I've never seen any that seemed worth the
money.
I've been wondering about a gas mask, but I'm still going through
sticker shock from my last look at the Lab Safety catalog.
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kel...@postoffice.swbell.net
going guy.A little looney I've been told,but easy going.If the old boy
you received threats from is the bad-ass he claims to be well I would
love to meet him.You see theres one thing I hate and thats a bully.I
recall this incident in my high-school day.The toughest guy in the whole
school,wanted to fight me.Why I dont know I never bothered a soul.In gym
class he came up on my right side and told me "I'm about to knock the
f... out of you "Not looking at him facing straight ahead I said "Ok but
just once then you can go away and leave me alone" Well he did,knocked
the shit out of my right jaw.
He told me "turn around an fight me " I just faced straight ahead.Then
he made a mistake that he remembered for the next eight weeks of
school.He swung at my face again.Had it been me I would have went for
the knee.When he swung I tilted my head back ,caught his wrist with my
bicept and forearm,grabbing the shoulder of my shirt.My right hand came
down to his elbow,with a little twist of my upper torso and the impact
of the open palm blow.Well it sounded like a twety-two rifle had been
fired. You see the guy was using the same method of attack.I already
knew his speed and force.He was right handed and swung with his
left.What realy sealed the deal was the suprise.He thought(thought being
the key word hear)I would just stand there again.tsk,tsk.So when another
threatens,well you know his intentions.
kelleyo
ben williams
Geoffrey L. Hardin wrote in message <36CE4589...@abcs.com>...
>Greetings all!
, two 1-quart
>military canteens in covers (one with
>aluminum canteen cup, both with one bottle Potable Aqua
>in outside pocket, both also have a single
>large foil packet of Gatorade inside a Glad Slide-loc
>bag in between canteen and cover),
have you tried the stoves that fit around the canteen/cup ? designed to work
with the cup and troxane for cooking.
ben
Io
>
> How has it held up? I haven't seen the Cold Steel model, but I've
> never seen a folding shovel that wasn't just a little flimsy.
>
Check out the entrenching tool by Glock. Yes, *that* Glock.
Geoffrey L. Hardin
Christopher \"Chris\" Fisher wrote:
> >1 MSA Millenium Protective Mask w/ 4 NIOSH-approved NBC
> >filters (or at least the C2A1 military cannisters).
> >These masks are currently being made by MSA and are not
> >available (according to MSA Customer
> >Service).(*Author's Note : We are currently using the
> >MSA Advantage 1000 protective masks due to occurrences
> >in recent times. . .we still intend to get the
> >Millenium when they become available.)
>
>
> Does MSA have an estimate as to when these will be available/cost?
>
March 99 and about $150 apiece.
> Out of curiousity, I noticed that you have masks, but you didn't
> mention having a Saratoga suit, NBC boots, and gloves, along with
> Chlorox bleach spray to decontaminate with....
Well, we do have full sets of MOPP gear and Scalp Suits, but if the
situation demanded it, I doubt that we'd be bugging out. If the
environment were so bad that we needed MOPP or Saratoga's, we
probably would stay relatively close.
>
> Also not mentioned was any sort of body amor, or a helmet.
Why? Body armor is heavy and hot. Your chances of it protecting you
are much less than becoming a heat casualty as a direct result of the
body armor. Armor which can provide protection against rifle
ammuniton is heavy and exceedingly expensive. Helmets are fine, but
they also cause problems. They're heavy and don't really provide all
that much protection, either. While my plans do provide (rather extensively,
I might add) for a self-defense capability if necessary, I don't feel that
full body armor and helmets are necessary.
Moreover, I do hope you mean real bulletproof vests and not the flak vests some
people believe will protect them from bullets. Flak vests are designed to
defeat schrapnel from exploding artillery and maybe grenades, ditto the
helmets. Schrapnel causes the most injuries in war. I really, really hope the
spikey-haired mutants don't get ahold of a 155 or 120mm howitzer.
It is our intention to avoid firefights at all cost. Either by going around
any such problem areas or by running away (two people do not a fireteam make).
Running away with an extra 25 or 30 lbs of protective gear becomes awfully
difficult. We're not infantrymen who have the convenience of a heavily
armoured supply system.
Yes, it seems contradictory that our equipment is so heavily based upon
firearms, but if the situation arises where we do find ourselves under fire, we
intend to make it so costly to the other side that they may decide we aren't
worth the trouble. We hope to demonstrate to them the theory of diminishing
returns (or increasing return fire, whichever may work best).
>
> Something else I didn't see, but which I've been considering, are
> Nomex CQB coveralls as sold by Brigade Quartermaster, complemented
> by Bolle tac goggles, nomex gloves with kevlar liners, and a Nomex
> (or Kevlar) baclava.
For a bugout? I would most definitely not want to evacuate while
wearing all this. The coveralls are expensive and hot, not to
mention difficult to move around in. I'd suggest sticking with
standard BDU's. The real reason most TAC teams use Nomex is because
they face a very true threat of being burned (close proximity to
firearms being used in CQB as well as flash-bangs or flammable
tear-gas cannisters). Nomex gloves are neat, too, but they're pretty
light and don't provide much in the way of real protection for your
hands while humping through the bush.
Save this clothing for the Clandestine Lab Enforcement Teams and SFOD-Delta
teams. They're the ones with the big budgets and sexy mission parameters.
Your mission parameters are to live long and prosper (a la Mr. Spock).
>
>
> >Night Vision gear, most probably one of the Elcan's for
> >each rifle and maybe even one of the new
> >AN-PVS7A's. (Author's Note : This is still in the
> >"hmmm. . .do I really need it?" stage. Yes, I can
> >afford them, but I'm having a hard time justifying
> >$3-5k for a new, top-of-the-line night vision device.
> >I wouldn't want to carry a PVS-2 or PVS-4 around,
> >they're too big and take odd battery sizes. So I'm
> >limited in my choices to low-grade Russian equipment or
> >Gen III U.S. stuff which is rather costly.).
>
>
> Doesn't BQM sell the AN-PVS7B for $3000 or so? My understanding was
> that this was only a generation II (II+?) system. This particular
> model was the one I was considering, as it uses standard AA
> batteries.
Well, I was wanting a weaponsight. The PVS7 is a head-mounted set.
>
> You've got a lot of nice equipment though. I for one am impressed.
> Although I am curious about the seeming omissions detailed above.
Let me know if I've answered your questions. Don't hesitate to ask
any more or for clarification of any of my statements.
Please post a copy of any response to my email address as well as to the
newsgroup.
Geoffrey L. Hardin,
geo...@abcs.com
Geoffrey L. Hardin
"Director Mike S. Medintz" wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
> "Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> spake:
>
> >AR15 flattop, collapsible stock, 14.5" heavy barrel,
>
> Is there any advantage that would make the ATF short rifle paperwork
> worth the effort?
There is no short-rifle paperwork. I may have forgotten to explain that if
you solder the Vortex flash suppressor onto the rifle, it meets the
minimim 16" rule. Sorry.
>
>
> > (Author's Update: this choice of
> >radio is currently being reconsidered, I found out that
> >Yaesu has a dual-band portable in the same size/weight
> >range that has a VERY wide reception range. . .
> >reportedly the largest in the industry. . . and still
> >maintains the milspec 810 C/D/E ratings for
> >water-resistance and shock).
>
> I assume you mean the FT-50. Damn fine radio. If you have the money,
> I'd grab it in a heartbeat. It's the first (and only) HT that I like
> better than the FT-51R that I already have.
Yeah, I think that's the one. I ran into a Ham Shop about a week ago and
saw the radio and the freq ranges, I was damned impressed. From what I
understood, the radio didn't cost all that much (about 350 for the 16-key
version).
>
>
> > one Cold-Steel Spetsnaz shovel.
>
> How has it held up? I haven't seen the Cold Steel model, but I've
> never seen a folding shovel that wasn't just a little flimsy.
>
The Cold Steel shovel is not a folding shovel. It's a short spade-type
shovel (blade is a little flatter, but the same shape) with a solid wood
handle. It's just around 20" long.
The shovel is holding up pretty well. There are two problems I've found
with it. The first is the handle which is a simple, round handle with an
enlarged knob. The handle is shellaq'd and very smooth. It is not very
ergonomic for heavy use. I flattened the handle a bit to more closely
resemble a canoe paddle as the original design tends to slip in your hand
if you chop or hack with it (say while digging out a car from deep snow
and ice).
The second problem is the finish which slowly wears away from the edges as
you use the shovel. The finish is baked on. Normally this is no problem,
but I am somewhat anal retentive about my gear and dislike rust anywhere.
Getting rid of the rust on the edges is no problem, it just takes a little
elbow grease. But painting the edges between uses doesn't work too well.
Rustoleum won't stick to the baked-on finish and simply flakes off when
dry. Sometimes, this flaking will peel off the unprotected metal as it
comes away. I've taken to simply applying a layer of Outer's Gun Grease
after I scrub off the rust.
But otherwise, the shovel has dug, hacked, chopped and done everything
I've thrown at it. I much prefer it over any trifold or bi-fold military
shovel.
>
> Also...foot powder?
Not to worry, it's in the hygeine kit along with Arm & Hammer underarm
antiperspirant (unscented so the New World Order alien-hybrid bloodhounds
can't sniff me out), toothpaste, tooth brush, mirror, bar of shaving soap,
razor with extra heads, bar of the nifty field soap sold by Brigade
Quartermasters (not only unscented, but anti-bacterial and contains
citronella to ward off bugs. . .damn, ain't technology wonderful?).
Please send a copy of any response to my email address as well as posting
Geoffrey L. Hardin
That brought a chuckle out of me! I'm not worried about the person who
threatened me. I've been shot at (both in military and law-enforcement
jobs), stabbed, hit with sticks, rocks, bottles and even was on fire once.
One guy who gets his panties in a twist because I pointed out some glaring
inadequacies in his bug-out list doesn't worry me.
Besides, if he's that thin-skinned as to have to revert back to an
adolescent pissing contest reminiscent of high-school alpha-male posturing
without so much as telling me about where I went wrong, well. . .he
shouldn't prove too difficult to handle.
If he is going to present himself as an authority on survival and
preparedness and write an article that intends to tell everyone out there
what they should have, he should expect criticism. If he can't handle
someone telling him he's wrong in cyberspace, how will he react as a member
of a team the first time they come under a lot of stress? Ah well. It takes
all kinds.
Please send a copy of any response to my email address as well as posting to
the newsgroup.
Geoffrey L.Hardin,
geo...@abcs.com
kel...@postoffice.swbell.net wrote:
. . .snip. . .
Geoffrey L. Hardin
ben williams wrote:
> Geoffrey L. Hardin wrote in message <36CE4589...@abcs.com>...
> >Greetings all!
>
> , two 1-quart
> >military canteens in covers (one with
> >aluminum canteen cup, both with one bottle Potable Aqua
> >in outside pocket, both also have a single
> >large foil packet of Gatorade inside a Glad Slide-loc
> >bag in between canteen and cover),
>
> have you tried the stoves that fit around the canteen/cup ? designed to work
> with the cup and troxane for cooking.
> ben
I've seen them, I guess I just prefer the Esbit stove out of habit (which is
included in the list).
Rick Bowen
I have one old surplus "steel pot", just for that reason. The steel pot.
Try boiling a chicken in the new PASGT Helmet.
Helmets are fine, but
>they also cause problems. They're heavy and don't really provide all
>that much protection, either. While my plans do provide (rather extensively,
>I might add) for a self-defense capability if necessary, I don't feel that
>full body armor and helmets are necessary.
>
>Moreover, I do hope you mean real bulletproof vests and not the flak vests some
>people believe will protect them from bullets. Flak vests are designed to
>defeat schrapnel from exploding artillery and maybe grenades, ditto the
>helmets. Schrapnel causes the most injuries in war. I really, really hope the
>spikey-haired mutants don't get ahold of a 155 or 120mm howitzer.
Amen. That would ruin your whole day.
Survivor = one who doesn't take stupid, unneccessary,
and possibly life threatening chances needlessly.
Where there is hunger, Law is not Regarded;
Where Law is not Regarded, there will be Hunger.
-Benjamin Franklin
Franklin Jennings
says nothing about you, just I am without family since my father and
sister died, so if I ever bug out, I only have to worry about me. Of
course, the corrolary is that I do not have others who can help me gauge
my mental stability in times of stress, or offer support, both real and
emotional at those times. It all has its pros and cons, don't it?
I would suggest you get a new pack if the Pheonix's hardpoints aren't
what you wish for. You can go expensive on this one at REI, which I do.
(Like I said, I am my only mouth to feed.) Or you can find some really
nice swiss surplus stuff. I am sure you know all about Cheaper than
Dirt! and Brigade Quartermaster, but if not, I can send you info.
If you are a decent hand at sewing, or have a wife, I would just hit REI
or some other outdoorsman shop and get webbing. Sew your own hardpoints
on, (I like waxed floss for this. Unflavored if there may be bears
nearby.<g>) Then wax the stitches from the inside and rewaterproof. I
get hammered by people who say the parrafin isn't neccessary, but
judging from your list, you also like to err on the side of caution I
bet.
All in all, you seem highly motivated
Look forward to hearing from you, as it gets very alone as I make
preparations.
--
*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)
"I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark
should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by
dry rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in
magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent plant. The proper
function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my
days in trying to prolong them.I shall use my time."
Jack London
Geoffrey L. Hardin
Franklin Jennings wrote:
> I don't rant and I don't rave, but I wouldn't carry so much gear. This
> says nothing about you, just I am without family since my father and
> sister died, so if I ever bug out, I only have to worry about me. Of
> course, the corrolary is that I do not have others who can help me gauge
> my mental stability in times of stress, or offer support, both real and
> emotional at those times. It all has its pros and cons, don't it?
Can't live with them. . .can't live without them. More to the adage than just a quaint
catchphrase.
>
>
> I would suggest you get a new pack if the Pheonix's hardpoints aren't
> what you wish for. You can go expensive on this one at REI, which I do.
> (Like I said, I am my only mouth to feed.) Or you can find some really
> nice swiss surplus stuff. I am sure you know all about Cheaper than
> Dirt! and Brigade Quartermaster, but if not, I can send you info.
>
Well, I can live with some of the Phoenix's problems. Again, the only REAL problem I've
had is with the lack of external lashing points. The Phoenix has two up top and two on
the bottom. There is a funky way of attaching the accessory pouches, too, by using
fastex Buckles. I _have_ made some modifications to our gear to make it a little
better. I have an older Singer commercial sewing machine and we've made a couple of
interesting little items with it. We have a government contractor down where our parents
live (near Evansville, Indiana) that makes all sorts of packs, tents and the like. We can
obtain all kinds of neat items from them (1000 denier Cordura in various camoflages, 1"
milspec webbing (10-cents a yard), milspec sewing thread, etc.) and we've hacked together
a few items (how about an all-woodland camoflage, 1000-denier Cordura, polar-fleece lined
1qt canteen cover? Or even some not-so bad copies of the Nylon M14 Magazine carriers
also in Woodland Camo? I even tried making a small, frameless pack suitable for our
PE/RK's. To make things easier, I used commercially-available waist-belts and shoulder
straps.) We're sorta playing around with going into business for ourselves (hell if a
Squid SEAL can do it, it should be no problem for an ex-Green Beanie), but our real lives
have kept us rather busy.
>
> If you are a decent hand at sewing, or have a wife, I would just hit REI
> or some other outdoorsman shop and get webbing. Sew your own hardpoints
> on, (I like waxed floss for this. Unflavored if there may be bears
> nearby.<g>) Then wax the stitches from the inside and rewaterproof. I
> get hammered by people who say the parrafin isn't neccessary, but
> judging from your list, you also like to err on the side of caution I
> bet.
I don't much care for the paraffin, but would probably do it with Seam Seal.
Oh, and I sure hope there aren't any bears in Indiana (but I have heard some rumors about
black bears being seen up in the northern parts. . .right near where they've been having
those Bigfoot sightings (no, really!).
>
>
> All in all, you seem highly motivated
>
> Look forward to hearing from you, as it gets very alone as I make
> preparations.
Some good Ideas!
Please send a copy of any responses to my email address as well as posting to the
DC
(Black or Hispanic majority areas known for it's potential for riots).
However, if you live in a suburb outside the city, in a White majority area,
there is no real need for such.
If you talk to your neighbors and develop a strategy for handling natural
disasters, there will be minimal panic problems people are talking about.
People need a plan to know what they can do to help in a bad situation. If
there's no plan, no talk, people become hermits in their own houses.
When California went through El Nino last year, there were thousands of those
neighbors working together to keep the river from flowing into their
neighborhood. It really helps when the weather service gives you all these El
Nino warnings for six months before the winter storms hit. Everyone laughed at
the warnings. I even caught myself laughing. Fortunately a few of us were
prepared enough to help stave off the weather until the rest of us neighbors
banded together and faught the weather together. Fortunately I had a plan to
tell everyone what they needed to do with their land to divert the mud and
water away from the houses. Two blocks away they weren't so prepared and their
houses were totaled.
For Y2K, people with pools can help distribute water for flushing toilets or
washing clothes. The ones with gasoline generators may be a good place to park
the kids to watch videos while the adults are pulling things together. There
can also be the possibilty to keeping everyone's food refrigerated in the
refers of the one's with generators. People with a little extra supply of food
can hopefully help out with the idiots that didn't prepare. Believe me they
will be forever grateful after the utilities have come back on. And that's
what we're talking about here, aren't we? The power will come back on. The
water will eventually start flowing again. We will get things back to normal
again if TSHTF. There is also the comradery everyone feels for getting through
this together.
The people in your neighborhood will not fear the potential problems if they
know their neighbors will be there to help. You don't have to have everything
if you coordinate with other neighbors to see if you can band together and
share certain things to keep the sanity during any outages.
I know, I'm sounding like it takes a village or something. Yuck!
But most people are social type humans. We like to talk to other people. We
like to associate with others. Granted, not everyone in the neighborhood will
help. There are alot of unsocialables in every neighborhood. But if the
utilities are down for an extended week or two, they may soften their tone.
If anything, talking with your neighbors will install more trust within
everyone. You may not have a neighbor pointing a gun at you if you're just
walking the street.
Jim Everett
...I don't do night vision-I've never seen any that seemed worth the
money.
> Source suggestion:
What A Country Mission Viejo CA 949 770 8881 fax 949 951 4610
night vision AN/PVS2 $595. These work well on M16 type. No, I do not have
one now but "in a previous life time" I did. I will say unconditionally
this set up will work VERY well. Don't know $ for M16 mount but according
to the ad they are available.
>
> I've been wondering about a gas mask, but I'm still going through
> sticker shock from my last look at the Lab Safety catalog.
Sportsman Guide St Paul MN 800 888 3006
is a good source for a gas mask. Had mine for some time. Sorry, do not
remember the price. Use it when I am spraying various bug and weed sprays.
Works perfectly (I am still breathing well)! What I got looks like a US
M17 but Russian made. Label says :
NM 17 Gas Mask 14980-000-000
The condition is new and it comes with2 extra filters. None of the
filters are not installed and this is a bit of trouble to install but
worth the time. Just "take your time". Don't rush stretching the housing
and they will fit
Jim E
>
>
>
Red...@hotmail.com
<geo...@abcs.com> wrote:
Here is my list. I am no expert and don't have lots of money.
1 Russian SKS, 1 Winchester 1300, and 1 1911 .45 Lots of ammo.
Alice Pack
782 gear
Cold weather dual sleeping bag
all sorts of small and very helpful gizmos I picked up while on active
duty (compass, fire starter, ect.)
Lots of MRE's
1 very cheap mono night vision
survival paper books
Expensive and big Gerber knife
Super Leatherman (2)
Very good first aid kits
Very good car repair kits
150 dollar boots
Hoo Ya, I am ready! I also have the fortune to live 2 miles right
next to one of the largest federal parks in the USA (3,000+ sq ac)
Director Mike S. Medintz
While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
Io <nomai...@gte.net> spake:
>> How has it held up? I haven't seen the Cold Steel model, but I've
>> never seen a folding shovel that wasn't just a little flimsy.
>>
>Check out the entrenching tool by Glock. Yes, *that* Glock.
Actually, I have. It's the best that I've seen, but that only makes it
the best of a sorry lot. Firearms they do well, and I've heard good
stories about knives, but since even Glock can't do it I doubt that
anyone can make a decent folding shovel. (Yes, that's right, I broke
one.)
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Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz
Spam prevention in progress. UUNet/Compuserve/WebTV/C&W
mail not accepted here.
5000
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
> Io <nomai...@gte.net> spake:
>
> >> How has it held up? I haven't seen the Cold Steel model, but I've
> >> never seen a folding shovel that wasn't just a little flimsy.
> >>
> >Check out the entrenching tool by Glock. Yes, *that* Glock.
>
> Actually, I have. It's the best that I've seen, but that only makes it
> the best of a sorry lot. Firearms they do well, and I've heard good
> stories about knives, but since even Glock can't do it I doubt that
> anyone can make a decent folding shovel. (Yes, that's right, I broke
> one.)
No big deal, lots of people can break an anvil in a sandbox.
Its those that can make things last that last the best themselves.
You should have known...
Joe Ahearn
<geo...@abcs.com> wrote:
You definitely forgot the 100 or so Puros Indios cigars you will need,
not to mention the Fuente Double Chateus and the Nestor 747s....
Of course, equipping yourself with high-grade cigars means you will
probably have to sell your kit to come up with the cash, but what the
hell. You only bugout once and you might as well have enough really
good cigars. :) :) :)
Abe D. Lockman
Mike S. Medintz) wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
> "Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> spake:
>
> >Greetings all!
>
> Since Geoff posted his list, I guess somebody might want mine:
>
> One REI Traverse Newstar internal frame pack. The upper detachible
> butt pack is loaded as follows:
>
> First aid kit-I'm not going to dig it out right now.
> Flashlight-2AA Mini-Mag Light. Spyderco Endura knife. About 250
> strike-anywhere matches. One film canister with vasilene-loaded cotton
{further details deleted}
Survival appears a bit different when you have a wife and two young
boys. A site where you can stay put becomes much more attractive.
adl
Geoffrey L. Hardin
Joe Ahearn wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:18:02 -0500, "Geoffrey L. Hardin"
> <geo...@abcs.com> wrote:
>
> You definitely forgot the 100 or so Puros Indios cigars you will need,
> not to mention the Fuente Double Chateus and the Nestor 747s....
>
Sorry, but I don't go much for the Puros. Fuente, in my opinion, is
highly over-rated and I never really cared for Nestors, either.
Personally, I'd probably store some Macanudos, say some Prince Phillips,
Hyde Parks, or even a couple of Jades. I'd stick with the original Mac's,
though, not this new "Robust" line they've come out with. I prefer my
cigars to be light-tasting, a touch woody with some earthen overtones.
Therefore, I'd stick with the Claro wrappers, but maybe toss in a couple
of Maduros for variety. I'd also have to carry some of my favorite Hoyo de
Monterrey de Jose Gener. Excaliburs, of course. Number 1's and 2's only,
thanyouverymuch.
The only real problem with these is that it's difficult finding a good
traveldor that will withstand the rigors of a forced evacuation.
I'd probably be better off taking a couple of pipes (say one of my Holey
Smokes and, of course, a Meerschaum for barter) and a half-a-pound of my
favorite tobacco (not to mention pipe cleaners). Half a pound would
probably last me several months if I limited myself to a couple of bowls a
day. But which blend to take? Decisions, decisions.
I know, for a nice, relaxing puff, I'd probably take either my Black
Toasted Vanilla or a Cherries Jubilee. Easy to pack, quick to light,
pleasant flavor, delightful aromae and best of all : no tongue bite. . .I
wouldn't want to hamper my ability to savor my MRE's.
>
> Of course, equipping yourself with high-grade cigars means you will
> probably have to sell your kit to come up with the cash, but what the
> hell. You only bugout once and you might as well have enough really
> good cigars. :) :) :)
>
Nah, that's why you buy in bulk from a major supplier. I can knock 40 to
50% off cigar store prices by shopping around. If you look carefully, you
can find Macanudo Prince Phillips (Claro) for only about $5.50 apiece.
Granted, you have to buy a whole box of them, but if you're a true cigar
fan. . .
Hey, who said TEOTWAWKI had to be rough?
Please send a copy of any response to my email address as well as posting
Director Mike S. Medintz
While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
loc...@pop.erols.com (Abe D. Lockman) spake:
>Survival appears a bit different when you have a wife and two young
>boys. A site where you can stay put becomes much more attractive.
I agree, to the extent that staying put is an option. A "mishap" of a
tank car on the rail here in town or a tanker trailer on the Turnpike
tends to cut one's options real short real quick.
This town also has its share of riots. That's right. Cute
psuedo-suburban Johnson County Wanna-Be Lawrence went completely nuts
back in 1969 when a couple of campus buildings blew up and the
National Guard pretty much took over the place. And it doesn't help
that that asshole Fred Phelps has to bring his roughly 47 kids over
from Topeka to pick fights twice a year, and that there's a few dozen
people here that always seem desperate to oblige him. A simultaneous
war protest, gay pride/Phred Phelps brawl, and KU-K-State basketball
game will make this town look like it did in "The Day After" and if
you have kids the best place for them is somewhere around Emporia or
Salina.
Staying put is _usually_ a good idea. Just not for every situation. I
imagine that those who live in hurricane territory know exactly what I
mean.
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=JOj8
outd...@my-dejanews.com
>
> To the testosterone-laden challenger : Lay on,
> MacDuff!
Correctly quoted Shakespeare is always welcome!
snipped
> Basic Gear :
>
> AR15 flattop, collapsible stock, 14.5" heavy barrel,
> M4 Double heat-shielded handguard, Vortex
> Flash suppressor, Mark Brown rear sighting system, ACOG
> optical sight., Trijicon tritium front and
> rear sight inserts.
>
> Seven - 30rd magazines.
>
> 420 rds 5.56x45mm, 62-grain Lake City Ammo (FMJBT w/
> Steel Penetrator). Mil Spec in three
> 140-rd bandoliers. First 210 rds goes into the
> magazines in harness, rest stays in buttpack (Below).
>
> Heckler & Koch USP45, Trijicon Night Sights. Pistol
> stays in Bianchi UM84 Nylon Flap holster w/
> extra thumbstrap.
>
> Three 10-rd magazines, one in pistol, two in Bianchi
> magazine pouch.
>
> Eagle LBV-USA. Six AR15 magazines (30-rd) fit in chest
> pockets. Two lower "grenade" pockets
> hold a pair of Simmons waterproof minibinoculars and a
> Military Lensatic Tritium-illuminated
> Compass (Cammenga).
I'm assuming that your weapon/ammo choices are based on the assumption that
you won't be able to get back to your home again (possible ever). The .223
doesn't address hunting very well, though. What are your thoughts on this?
snipped
> Buttpack : attached to Pistol belt above and supported
> by the LBV : two complete MRE's, 200 or
> so strike-anywhere matches, 50 British Lifeboat
> Matches, Gerber Strike-Force (flint & Steel), Fox-40
> "pealess" whistle, Suunto "SmokeKiller" compass,
> Pelican 4-AA flashlight (waterproof to 2000') w/ both
> clear and red lenses, 16-AA NiMh Batteries, solar
> battery recharger, Waterproof Notepad w/ cover, Fisher
> Space Pen, 100' 550 cord, Small fishing kit in 35mm
> film case, 2-packs of Quench Gum, 3 Powerbars,
> equipment repair kit, big roll of toilet paper, PUR
> Scout Waterpurifier (one of the new models), two tiny
> Nalgene bottles (one containing mink oil, one with
> black shoe polish - for those emergency field
> inspections, ya never know when you may have to pass
> muster for the local militia commander!), two tubes of
> camo face paint, P38 can-opener, two 4-oz bottles
> Maxi-Deet bug spray, one tube sunscreen SPF-30 PABA
> Free (thank you very much), three rolled-up trashbags -
> DAMN.
>
I noticed that you have your gerber firestarter and your matches in the same
pack ....
I really like the idea of a net for fishing, post TEOWAWKI. A recent
steelheading trip reminded that fishing with hooks is "sport" fishing. In a
bug out situation, I want to catch fish *now*. An alternate use would be to
hang your food out of reach of animals. If anybody has a goos source for
small nets, drop me a line, I need to add one to my bag.
snipped
>
> Warm Weather Bag (basically spring through late fall)
>
> Blackhawk Phoenix Pack (my only complaint about this
> bag is that it doesn't have any really decent
> attachment points on the outside).
>
> One 90-oz Platypus water bladder (copy of the
> Camelback), this bladder fits into an inside pocket
> specifically designed to do so. The drinking tube
> feeds out a slot in the top of the Phoenix pack and
> down the side of the left shoulder (Blackhawk puts a
> nifty velcro sleeve on both straps to hold the tube in
> place with the bite valve right at mouth level). This
> took the place of my 2-quart canteens.
Do these stand up pretty well? I haven't tried one.
>
> In pack : 1 heavy-duty waterproof bag, 6 Complete
> MRE's, One full set of clothing (One top and one pair
> of pants, either in a neutral color (grey, khaki or OD)
> or in Woodland camo) in 100% cotton ripstop, 4 pair
> Thorlo Combat boot socks (Olive), 1-pair underwear, one
> set of compression/sliding shorts (great for long
> walks), 1 dark-brown short-sleeve 3-button henley style
> T-shirt, 1-pr leather rappelling gloves dyed black,
> 1-Thermarest Military self-inflating mattress,
> 1-thinsulate poncho liner, 5-rolled trashbags, 2- rolls
> toilet paper, 1 wet weather top, 1-cordura waterproof
> mapcase w/ maps of area), 100 strike- anywhere matches,
> 1 Esbit stove, 3-tubes hexamine fuel, 1-hygeine kit, 1
> brown cotton towel and one Cold-Steel Spetsnaz shovel.
> 3-more ubes Maxi-Deet, one mosquito net (the larger
> one), one hammock, and one old-style PUR Scout
> waterfilter (as a back-up)
Ah, there's the other stash of matches. Nevermind!
>
> Attached to the outside of pack in Blackhawk Accessory
> pouches designed just for the purpose :
> 1 MMRPS multi-purpose Poncho system (a nifty little
> contraption made of a Gore-tex-like material
> that is basically an over-sized poncho which has
> strategically placed slots and tabs allowing it to be
> used as a poncho, long-coat, short-coat, anorak,
> sleeping bagcover, one-person tent, sit-shelter,
> lean-to and standing tent. A zip-in mosquito netting
> allows it to be used in the summer and if you have
> another person with you who has another MMRPS, the two
> of them can be zipped together making a tent large
> enough for three people (at least two adults, one
> 10-year old human child, and one 9-year old canine) and
> all their gear. (Author's update, anyone wanting
> information on the MMRPS please contact me. I now have
> photos scanned in of the system in both the single and
> multiple-person setups).
Where do you get these things and how much? They sound nifty!
>
Pat T.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
akraven
netcan be had from Brigade Qtrmstr's or US Calvary and seem ok. If you have
bigger ifsh check with a fishing store for nets.
outd...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <36CE4589...@abcs.com>,
> "Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> wrote:
> > Greetings all!
> >
> > To the testosterone-laden challenger : Lay on,
> > MacDuff!
>
> Correctly quoted Shakespeare is always welcome!
>
>
>
akraven
Your point is very true,,,it is more difficult with wife and kids but you
have to think of possibilities that may force a move. For example we had a
huge forest fire up here a few years ago and we came extremely close to
evac(only a last minute wind change saved us). We had our stuff in the
trucks and some important things that we had time to pack also in the
trucks. You can't always count on being able to hunker down and ride things
out. You just have to make allowances and adaptations for the wife and kids.
Good luck
"Abe D. Lockman" wrote:
> In article <36ce7675...@nntp.idir.net>, med...@idir.net (Director
> Mike S. Medintz) wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
> > "Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> spake:
> >
> > >Greetings all!
> >
> > Since Geoff posted his list, I guess somebody might want mine:
> >
> > One REI Traverse Newstar internal frame pack. The upper detachible
> > butt pack is loaded as follows:
> >
> > First aid kit-I'm not going to dig it out right now.
> > Flashlight-2AA Mini-Mag Light. Spyderco Endura knife. About 250
> > strike-anywhere matches. One film canister with vasilene-loaded cotton
>
> {further details deleted}
>
> Survival appears a bit different when you have a wife and two young
> boys. A site where you can stay put becomes much more attractive.
>
> adl
Nadir El-Farra
> In article <36CE4589...@abcs.com>,
> "Geoffrey L. Hardin" <geo...@abcs.com> wrote:
<<big ole honking snip>>
> > Attached to the outside of pack in Blackhawk Accessory
> > pouches designed just for the purpose :
> > 1 MMRPS multi-purpose Poncho system (a nifty little
> > contraption made of a Gore-tex-like material
> > that is basically an over-sized poncho which has
> > strategically placed slots and tabs allowing it to be
> > used as a poncho, long-coat, short-coat, anorak,
> > sleeping bagcover, one-person tent, sit-shelter,
> > lean-to and standing tent. A zip-in mosquito netting
> > allows it to be used in the summer and if you have
> > another person with you who has another MMRPS, the two
> > of them can be zipped together making a tent large
> > enough for three people (at least two adults, one
> > 10-year old human child, and one 9-year old canine) and
> > all their gear. (Author's update, anyone wanting
> > information on the MMRPS please contact me. I now have
> > photos scanned in of the system in both the single and
> > multiple-person setups).
>
> Where do you get these things and how much? They sound nifty!
> >
> Pat T.
This sounds a lot like a piece of gear the USMC Force Reconnaissance (sp?)
boys have been using. The one I'm thinking of is called an "Ecotat" or
"Freedom Shelter". It debuted in the Marine Corps Gazette back in '94 or
so as a weight-savings measure (replaced eight or nine separate pieces of
gear). If memory serves the Recon boys ended up deciding on a plain brown
unit as it was better suited to 'world-wide' camoflage than the original
woodland design. If that old memory serves, it's also about $300 or so
(don't recall if that included the special Wiggy's sleeping bag that was
designed for it). For those interested, try looking up the original
article in old issues of the Gazette for contact info - I think the company
was in Virginia Beach at the time.
If that's NOT what it is, then count me in with the group that wants to
know more! :)
It's not easy (or cheap!) being a gear freak! ;)
-Nadir
Abe D. Lockman
> Abe
> Your point is very true,,,it is more difficult with wife and kids but you
> have to think of possibilities that may force a move. For example we had a
> huge forest fire up here a few years ago and we came extremely close to
> evac(only a last minute wind change saved us). We had our stuff in the
> trucks and some important things that we had time to pack also in the
> trucks. You can't always count on being able to hunker down and ride things
> out. You just have to make allowances and adaptations for the wife and kids.
> Good luck
Of course such things can happen. However I believe that a family is then
better off moving to _another_ _prepared_ location, rather than trying to
become light infantry without a logistics chain for the duration, which is
what some of these "bugout" equipment lists seem oriented to. (I know,
some intend to be light infantry only while making such a move.)
adl
dkh
<7asb9i$jb7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
> hang your food out of reach of animals. If anybody has a goos source for
> small nets, drop me a line, I need to add one to my bag.
I don't know where *you* can get them (I go to a local commercial fishing
store) but you might try to find some smelt or herring dip nets. These are
for 30 to 36 inch diameter hoops. Good string bags. You might check salmon
dip nets for larger fish, the strings are stronger but the mesh is much
larger. If you want to make your own, try to find some shrimp pot webbing,
the mesh is about the same as the herring dip net and as strong as the
salmon dip net, but you have to "sew".
For fish in a small pond, I would set up between two sticks and start
wading around the pool in a circle. The water will get muddy and the fish
cannot see to avoid the bag. You can tell when they start getting into the
net by how the sticks start jumping. This is illegal, so only use as an
emergency procedure.
Some suggested key words to use searching: net web commercial herring fish
smelt replacement mesh knot dip turtle shrimp crab pot
Director Mike S. Medintz
While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
outd...@my-dejanews.com spake:
>I'm assuming that your weapon/ammo choices are based on the assumption that
>you won't be able to get back to your home again (possible ever). The .223
>doesn't address hunting very well, though. What are your thoughts on this?
Well, the guy from Idaho seems to think that it's the bee's nuts for
everything that a rifle may be called to do. Besides, .223 can be
forced to work on whitetail, if the range is short and shot placement
is good. Considering what Geoff has on his resume, I'm confident in
the second. (Not that I'd carry a .223 if I had much choice in the
matter)
>I really like the idea of a net for fishing, post TEOWAWKI. A recent
>steelheading trip reminded that fishing with hooks is "sport" fishing. In a
>bug out situation, I want to catch fish *now*. An alternate use would be to
>hang your food out of reach of animals. If anybody has a goos source for
>small nets, drop me a line, I need to add one to my bag.
Fishing with _one_ hook is sportfishing. Trotlines aren't. Trotlines
are also legal in my state, subject to certain constraints (there may
be a season, and you can't use them on the roughly three designated
trout streams). And for catfish and panfish, trotlines can be eerily
effective.
As for nets...you can get a half-assed cast net from Walmart. Or you
can weave your own. I've got a seine made from green fly line backing
that works reasonably well.
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Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz
Maybe my life belongs to me. Maybe it belongs to some god. I'll
be f***ed if it belongs to the government.
outd...@my-dejanews.com
> everything that a rifle may be called to do. Besides, .223 can be
> forced to work on whitetail, if the range is short and shot placement
> is good. Considering what Geoff has on his resume, I'm confident in
> the second. (Not that I'd carry a .223 if I had much choice in the
> matter)
Geoff and I were discussing this earlier (and No, I wasn't the one bashing
him). The .223 is probably a good choice for the midwest, deer and coyote's
being the largest native animals there. Geoff also told me that there are
heavier bullets available in .223 now - I didn't know that. All in all, it's
a good cartridge, but not what I'd want for problems with feral cattle and
hogs, or for longer/more difficult shots at larger western game.
We seem to be getting back to the question of what the primary use of the
weapon will be: antipersonnel or hunting? Are high capacity and high rate of
fire necessary? It's hard to find something that does everything well. If it
sounds like I haven't decided which one is best for me, it's because I
haven't.
Based on what I currently own, If I had to choose weapon, I would take either
my sks, or maybe a 12 ga, and my cz-75 for a sidearm. Probably a .22 pistol
in the pack for small game as well. Depending on where I was going and what
the threats were. I'd *really* hate to have to depend on one gun to do
everything.
I suppose If I were buying a new rifle for bugging out, I'd get a FN-FAL semi
or one of the new H&K 93 parts guns. Both seem to run about $550, though the
H&K mags are more expensive.
What are your thoughts, Mike?
>
> >I really like the idea of a net for fishing, post TEOWAWKI. A recent
> >steelheading trip reminded that fishing with hooks is "sport" fishing.
In a
> >bug out situation, I want to catch fish *now*. An alternate use would be to
> >hang your food out of reach of animals. If anybody has a goos source for
> >small nets, drop me a line, I need to add one to my bag.
>
> Fishing with _one_ hook is sportfishing. Trotlines aren't. Trotlines
> are also legal in my state, subject to certain constraints (there may
> be a season, and you can't use them on the roughly three designated
> trout streams). And for catfish and panfish, trotlines can be eerily
> effective.
Trot lines are pretty good, they were quite popular for coho in Lake Michigan
when I was a kid. They certainly pack smaller and lighter than a net, though
they can't be used as a dunk bag, or to hang gear. I don't believe they're
legal here in Washington.
>
> As for nets...you can get a half-assed cast net from Walmart. Or you
> can weave your own. I've got a seine made from green fly line backing
> that works reasonably well.
>
I will probably try to buy one, I already have enough craft projects :) I
still have presents (kits) from Christmas to finish.
Pat
joh...@my-dejanews.com
What is this stuff? Ganga or coffee? Smokey the Bear would like too know;)
Trooper
Liz S
world.
Liz S
in the world. It is probably also the most expensive at around $38 per
pound the last time I checked. And it really - is - coffee.
Timothy
Liz S wrote in message <36DCAEE7...@theadmins.com>...
Von Jaeger
wrote:
>Jamaican Blue Mountain is quite possibly the - best - coffee in the
>world.
Good answer Liz! Especially when the person who asked the question
calls himself "Trooper".
Hahaha!
"Terrorism, more often than not,
comes from the quill of a pen
than from the barrel of a gun"
--Hunter--
Richard Jorgensen
>Jamaican Blue Mountain is quite possibly the - best - coffee in the
>world.
>
Director Mike S. Medintz
While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
outd...@my-dejanews.com spake:
>Geoff and I were discussing this earlier (and No, I wasn't the one bashing
>him). The .223 is probably a good choice for the midwest, deer and coyote's
>being the largest native animals there. Geoff also told me that there are
>heavier bullets available in .223 now - I didn't know that.
Well, Geoff's midwest isn't quite the same as my midwest. The country
gets a fair bit more open between Indiana and Kansas. (Actually, it
doesn't REALLY open up until past Topeka, but still...) Anyway, you
can _usually_ bet on an under-150-yard shot on a whitetail here, but
not always. Especially not if you're west of Salina, which is muley
and antelope country anyway.
>We seem to be getting back to the question of what the primary use of the
>weapon will be: antipersonnel or hunting?
You got me. I'd keep it for both mainly because I'd be trying not to
do much of either. Hunting is incredibly inefficient, next to a good
trapline and a chicken ranch. You spend three full days looking for a
deer that may turn out to be a whopping 75 pounds of meat, and when
you compare the weight of pheasant or quail to the amount of effort
you put in, it's downright depressing.
>Are high capacity and high rate of fire necessary?
I don't believe so. However, explaining that to people who believe
that "if it's banned, it's gotta be better" is not easy.
>I suppose If I were buying a new rifle for bugging out, I'd get a FN-FAL semi
>or one of the new H&K 93 parts guns. Both seem to run about $550, though the
>H&K mags are more expensive.
>
>What are your thoughts, Mike?
My thoughts are that if you can get an HK .308 for $550, I should move
to where you are. Even the parts guns are all above $800 here. The
only (relatively) inexpensive .308 semi-autos are the Poly-Tech
M-14's, and I wouldn't have a Poly-Tech as a gift.
Anyway, I'm keeping my eye out for a private sale Mauser or Enfield to
work with. Until I find one, I'm stuck with a Remington riot gun. Not
bad, but range-limited and the ammunition is a little heavy.
>Trot lines are pretty good, they were quite popular for coho in Lake Michigan
>when I was a kid. They certainly pack smaller and lighter than a net, though
>they can't be used as a dunk bag, or to hang gear. I don't believe they're
>legal here in Washington.
Well, at least you have steelhead. The only trout that we have are the
stocked rainbows and browns that fight like logs and are all dead from
the warm water by June. There's a rumor of year-round breeding
populations somewhere in the Mined Lands SWA, but I don't get down
there often enough. I have to settle for smallmouth *sniff* *sniff*
*sob*
>> As for nets...you can get a half-assed cast net from Walmart. Or you
>> can weave your own. I've got a seine made from green fly line backing
>> that works reasonably well.
>
>I will probably try to buy one, I already have enough craft projects :) I
>still have presents (kits) from Christmas to finish.
In Washington, if you're anywhere near serious fishing water you can
probably find better than Walmart. Unless it's steelhead water, in
which case I doubt the Dep't of Ecology folks would look too kindly on
selling cast nets. CO's in trout states can be a little stiffnecked
sometimes. Not that I blame them, but...anyway, if you can get in
contact with any of the commercial fishermen that we don't have here
in the Sunflower State anymore. I haven't a clue as to where you can
buy a good net.
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Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz
Some people say that fishing is better than sex. That proves
that they ain't doing either one right. -Mike S. Medintz, 1998
outd...@my-dejanews.com
The definision of "region" can be confusing, can't it? Dominant land forming
(geomorphic) process is my definition, others have used cultural criteria,
natural vegetation type, etc.
> The country
> gets a fair bit more open between Indiana and Kansas. (Actually, it
> doesn't REALLY open up until past Topeka, but still...) Anyway, you
> can _usually_ bet on an under-150-yard shot on a whitetail here, but
> not always. Especially not if you're west of Salina, which is muley
> and antelope country anyway.
Yeah, here in Western WA, the shots are often short, while on the other side
of the cascades, I wouldn't be surprised by 200-300 yard shots. Not a lot to
break up the landscape, over there.
>
> >We seem to be getting back to the question of what the primary use of the
> >weapon will be: antipersonnel or hunting?
>
> You got me. I'd keep it for both mainly because I'd be trying not to
> do much of either. Hunting is incredibly inefficient, next to a good
> trapline and a chicken ranch. You spend three full days looking for a
> deer that may turn out to be a whopping 75 pounds of meat, and when
> you compare the weight of pheasant or quail to the amount of effort
> you put in, it's downright depressing.
>
too true. But if your unemployed, and not a land owner, the time is easy to
come by.
>
> >Are high capacity and high rate of fire necessary?
>
> I don't believe so. However, explaining that to people who believe
> that "if it's banned, it's gotta be better" is not easy.
>
> >I suppose If I were buying a new rifle for bugging out, I'd get a FN-FAL semi
> >or one of the new H&K 93 parts guns. Both seem to run about $550, though the
> >H&K mags are more expensive.
> >
> >What are your thoughts, Mike?
>
> My thoughts are that if you can get an HK .308 for $550, I should move
> to where you are. Even the parts guns are all above $800 here. The
> only (relatively) inexpensive .308 semi-autos are the Poly-Tech
> M-14's, and I wouldn't have a Poly-Tech as a gift.
Check out the ads in Shotgun News - HK parts gun - $579, and $539 for the FFN
parts guns. Plus whatever your gunshop charges to order it, and 16 bucks for
the feds. I hear the polytech receivers are OK, but after paying for a $300
refit at Fulton Armory (or someplace else) your up to $800. That would be 3
SKS's (or 2 AK clones) *and* 2 cases of 7.62x39.
>
> Anyway, I'm keeping my eye out for a private sale Mauser or Enfield to
> work with. Until I find one, I'm stuck with a Remington riot gun. Not
> bad, but range-limited and the ammunition is a little heavy.
Still, a versatile choice, IMO. And pretty intimidating. I assume your looking
for provate sale to eliminate the paper trail ...
>
> >Trot lines are pretty good, they were quite popular for coho in Lake Michigan
> >when I was a kid. They certainly pack smaller and lighter than a net, though
> >they can't be used as a dunk bag, or to hang gear. I don't believe they're
> >legal here in Washington.
>
> Well, at least you have steelhead.
Hard to prove by my steelhead card ;)
> The only trout that we have are the
> stocked rainbows and browns that fight like logs and are all dead from
> the warm water by June. There's a rumor of year-round breeding
> populations somewhere in the Mined Lands SWA, but I don't get down
> there often enough. I have to settle for smallmouth *sniff* *sniff*
> *sob*
Bass have an extra tag here, sometimes I wonder *exactly* what can you fish
for with just a WA state fishing license?
>
> >> As for nets...you can get a half-assed cast net from Walmart. Or you
> >> can weave your own. I've got a seine made from green fly line backing
> >> that works reasonably well.
> >
> >I will probably try to buy one, I already have enough craft projects :) I
> >still have presents (kits) from Christmas to finish.
BTW, Bass Pro Shop (god bless 'em) carries various seines - 4' x 8' from about
$15.00. Square, round, weighted, with floats, you name it.
>
> In Washington, if you're anywhere near serious fishing water you can
> probably find better than Walmart. Unless it's steelhead water, in
> which case I doubt the Dep't of Ecology folks would look too kindly on
> selling cast nets.
Live baitfish are illegal here :( , so the only nets I've seen for sale
locally are replacement netting for long-handled nets. They are cheap and
sturdy, but the mesh is large.
Later,
Pat
Eddie81012
BIGFOOT" on the outskirts of Scottsburg IN. no kidding. SOrry but I had to
post that.
Geoffrey L. Hardin
You mean down in Pike County, near Spurgeon? Who saw it? (sad thing is, I
probably know the person, if they're from Pike County. . deep dark secret of mine
is that I'm from near there.)