Weather Channel People At It Again

[26C.Z968]

They're at it again ! Weather Channel woman in Englewood FL ...
dry street all around and SHE is standing in the big puddle
at the intersection to give the impression the entire area
is underwater :-)

Come ON ... it was a bad enough disaster, ya don't have
to hype it !

[Frank]

I learned about such things when I was a kid. TV showed a creek flooded
near where I lived and it looked like Water World. I went out and
walked to the creek and it was nothing. Banks flowed over putting water
next to a few houses and that was it.

[26C.Z968]

Sometimes it's like Ron Burgundy and the "Dirty
Laundry" song had a baby together ...... :-)

Ah, the Englewood lady is back on - looks like
she's run out of flooded intersections. Now it's
just knocked-down fences and tipped trees.

[rbowman]

Years ago a major hurricane was supposed to hit Charleston. I'd been
camping but decided a motel would be a good option. It was a party
atmosphere with people stocking up on beer and chips. Around 11PM all
was quiet so I went to bed thinking the storm would wake me up when it
got there.

I got up around 7 and turned on the TV. A talking head had managed to
find a house that lost a couple of shingles and there were a few palm
fronds that had blown down. That was the best she could do.

About the party thing. Hurricanes were rare in the northeast but if one
was scheduled to hit land beer and booze sales went up as everybody put
together their hurricane party. Like Charleston, they usually were duds
as far as a weather event. Blizzards got the same treatment.

[rbowman]

Sounds like where i grew up. You learned not to leave your toys on the
cellar floor in the spring. The January thaw could be interesting too.
The year I was born the water was over the grate in the coal furnace so
my parents bundled me up and headed to my uncle's for a few days.

[Mighty Wannabe]

This one is real. Go to the link to see photos and videos:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11261707/Monster-Hurricane-Ian-devastates-Florida-leaving-2million-without-power-trapped-homes.html

Devastated Floridians return to see what's left of their homes as Gov. DeSantis calls Hurricane Ian a 500-year-event: Hundreds are feared dead - as 50 Chinooks and Blackhawks begin search and rescue... and flamingos take shelter in BATHROOMS!

• Helpless Floridians desperately called relatives and police, pleading to be rescued from their flooded homes
• Authorities have warned that fatalities will be 'in the hundreds' as the monster storm continues to rage  
• Streets turned into rivers, with storm surge flooding lower level emergency room of Port Charlotte hospital
• Hurricane Ian made landfall in Florida as Category 4 storm on Wednesday, hitting state with 150mph winds 
• No deaths have officially been reported in the US, but two are dead in Cuba after the island was hit this week 
• Police in Florida  predict that the recovery effort will be 'something we've not seen in this country ever' 
• President Biden has declared the event a 'major disaster' in Florida which makes federal funding available 
• Authorities found two people dead, likely as a result from the storm, but cause of death is still unconfirmed
• South Carolina is set to become its second landfall, as Ian strengthens to a Category 1 hurricane on Friday 

By Emma James For Dailymail.Com and Rachael Bunyan For Mailonline

Published: 05:10 EDT, 29 September 2022 | Updated: 11:41 EDT, 29 September 2022

Ron DeSantis has described the tsunami-like flooding across Florida as a ‘once in a 500-year’ event, leaving 2.7million without power as Hurricane Ian continues to barrel its way northwards through Orlando.

Hundreds of people are feared dead, as 50 National Guard helicopters are starting the search and rescue for thousands who are stranded or missing in the aftermath of the catastrophic water damage and 155mph winds.

But rescuers this morning admitted they are only 'scratching the surface' and the actual number of victims could soar even higher.

Thousands are also trapped on their homes and some were forced on to their roofs to escape rising floodwater that swallowed two-story homes.

Horrifying footage shows flames and black smoke coiling into the sky in Fort Myers as homes were suddenly being engulfed by the blaze. 

Meanwhile Joe Biden declared it a 'major disaster' and freed up funds to help those without power and hundreds of thousands whose homes have been leveled.

The President also confirmed he was in 'close coordination' with the Florida governor after a phone call early on Thursday morning.

Ian blasted ashore with catastrophic force on Wednesday afternoon as a Category 4 storm, but has since been downgraded to a tropical storm by the National Hurricane Center in an update early on Thursday.

But the National Hurricane Center is reporting it will be a Category 1 hurricane when it approaches the coast of South Carolina on Friday - which is set to be its second US landfall.

Experts are expecting the damages to cost up to $260billion, though the clean-up efforts are currently unable to get underway as swathes of Florida remain underwater.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11261707/Monster-Hurricane-Ian-devastates-Florida-leaving-2million-without-power-trapped-homes.html

[Frank]

Reminds me of what happened to us:

https://imgur.com/a/y0KTJEG

[26C.Z968]

Lacking anything of significance, INVENT something :-)

Presented correctly, a dust-up between 5-year-olds
can be blown up into a deadly riot.

As for hurricanes - DO err on the side of caution. They
are a bit difficult to chart exactly. Yesterday's storm
for example was approaching almost parallel to the coastline
which meant even tiny variations could cause a 100 mile
difference in where it actually came ashore. Too many in
the Ft. Myers area bet wrong .....

Oh, that storm is gonna regenerate and smack AGAIN in
the Carolinas.

[rbowman]

I had a much bigger tragedy. UPS delivered my shiny new lawnmower cover
on Tuesday and I put it on the mower. We had a windstorm last night and
it's someplace in North Dakota by now. Screw fancy. It's be a Harbor
Freight tarp and bungees for the winter.

[26C.Z968]

That post does not make much sense.

Fall is upon us. No more lawn-mowing. Not sure what
the Harbor Freight tarp is needed for. In any case
I wouldn't have bought a custom cover for a lawn
mower ... a cheapo WalMart tarp would do nicely, but
does a lawn-mower even NEED a tarp ?

Hey, consider moving to Florida - barely any winter
at all. PLENTY of newly-empty land down in the
southwest area :-)

But DO buy lots of fill - put your new abode at
least 10 feet above average ground level :-)

BTW ... why don't they build 'mobile homes' the same
way they build shipping containers - simple and
super-strong ? Weld a few together for a fancier
house.

Hmmmmm ... there MAY be a market there .... shipping
containers, but fully galvanized, designed to be
interlocked into larger structures ...... just $aying.

[rbowman]

On 9/29/22 21:34, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> Fall is upon us. No more lawn-mowing. Not sure what
>   the Harbor Freight tarp is needed for. In any case
>   I wouldn't have bought a custom cover for a lawn
>   mower ... a cheapo WalMart tarp would do nicely, but
>   does a lawn-mower even NEED a tarp ?

Good question. iirc I didn't tarp it last year and it worked fine when
it finally melted out of the snowdrift.

>   Hey, consider moving to Florida - barely any winter
>   at all. PLENTY of newly-empty land down in the
>   southwest area :-)

No thanks. When I lived in NH I'd take a few weeks in the fall to chase
the season down the country, terminating in Florida, camping along the
way. I enjoyed the Ocala NF, a site on the Appalachicola River, and some
of the state parks. Different flora, fauna, and land. Then I'd go back
to NH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreshan_State_Historic_Site

That was a fun one and a good base to explore the Edison and Ford
estates and other Fort Myers attractions.

It was fun but Florida is too flat and too hot for me.

[Mighty Wannabe]

rbowman wrote on 9/30/2022 11:28 AM:
>
> It was fun but Florida is too flat and too hot for me.

Only people who live near mountains would understand that feeling. I
used to live in Vancouver, B.C. which is at the foothills of the Rocky
Mountains. I could always see the mountains wherever I went so I always
knew my bearings and approximate location. When I came to Toronto I felt
lost because I couldn't see mountains and all the road intersections
looked the same. Later I had to rig a tiny Garmin GPS unit onto my
dashboard to help me navigate (Car GPS wasn't invented yet).

[rbowman]

I learned to fly in Vermont. I took a contract in Ft. Wayne and flying
around Indiana really spooked me. Mountain flying has its dangers but
you've got something to occupy your mind. A couple of hours of extreme
boredom and you start wondering if the T tail on the Tomahawk is going
to fall off.

Every now and then I'd have to go down to Brown County for rehab. It
wasn't much but at least it had some hills and wasn't goddam flat
soybean fields forever.

[26C.Z968]

On 9/30/22 11:28 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On 9/29/22 21:34, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> Fall is upon us. No more lawn-mowing. Not sure what
>>    the Harbor Freight tarp is needed for. In any case
>>    I wouldn't have bought a custom cover for a lawn
>>    mower ... a cheapo WalMart tarp would do nicely, but
>>    does a lawn-mower even NEED a tarp ?
>
> Good question. iirc I didn't tarp it last year and it worked fine when
> it finally melted out of the snowdrift.

I'm sure that nowhere in the manual is storing the
device in a snow drift recommended.

I once accidentally stored a motorcycle in a snow drift.
Couldn't find the damned thing. However a snow plow
eventually discovered it .......

>>    Hey, consider moving to Florida - barely any winter
>>    at all. PLENTY of newly-empty land down in the
>>    southwest area :-)
>
> No thanks. When I lived in NH I'd take a few weeks in the fall to chase
> the season down the country, terminating in Florida, camping along the
> way. I enjoyed the Ocala NF, a site on the Appalachicola River, and some
> of the state parks. Different flora, fauna, and land. Then I'd go back
> to NH.

Ocala is nice.

And the bears are small - unlike in the rockies.

Google-Earth the southern part of the forest sometime.
There's a military-exercise area there. A few years back
a bunch of cargo containers were arranged to say "Go Navy".

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreshan_State_Historic_Site
>
> That was a fun one and a good base to explore the Edison and Ford
> estates and other Fort Myers attractions.
>
> It was fun but Florida is too flat and too hot for me.

It is very hot, esp in the middle between the sea
breezes, and mostly flat. There are 'hills' along
the spine, but they aren't really hills. They're the
land that hasn't (yet) fallen into a sinkhole. Went
diving in a Fla sinkhole once - full redundant SCUBA
rig - it was VERY deep. Looked like a little pond at
the surface, 30 feet below a vertical shaft full of
absolutely clear water with little caves branching off
in various directions. Fascinating but hyper-dangerous.
I think it's part of a park now - back in the day it
was just a pond alongside a dirt farm road.

[rbowman]

On 9/30/22 17:32, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> On 9/30/22 11:28 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 9/29/22 21:34, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>>> Fall is upon us. No more lawn-mowing. Not sure what
>>>    the Harbor Freight tarp is needed for. In any case
>>>    I wouldn't have bought a custom cover for a lawn
>>>    mower ... a cheapo WalMart tarp would do nicely, but
>>>    does a lawn-mower even NEED a tarp ?
>>
>> Good question. iirc I didn't tarp it last year and it worked fine when
>> it finally melted out of the snowdrift.
>
>   I'm sure that nowhere in the manual is storing the
>   device in a snow drift recommended.

I think that technique is used in Alaska for construction equipment that
won't be needed until spring.

>   I once accidentally stored a motorcycle in a snow drift.
>   Couldn't find the damned thing. However a snow plow
>   eventually discovered it .......

I put covers on the bikes. Depending on the winter they can look like
large mounds of snow.

>   It is very hot, esp in the middle between the sea
>   breezes, and mostly flat. There are 'hills' along
>   the spine, but they aren't really hills. They're the
>   land that hasn't (yet) fallen into a sinkhole. Went
>   diving in a Fla sinkhole once - full redundant SCUBA
>   rig - it was VERY deep. Looked like a little pond at
>   the surface, 30 feet below a vertical shaft full of
>   absolutely clear water with little caves branching off
>   in various directions. Fascinating but hyper-dangerous.
>   I think it's part of a park now - back in the day it
>   was just a pond alongside a dirt farm road.

Any mermaids?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeki_Wachee_Springs


I went there on a family vacation in the '60s. Interesting. I miss
family vacations. My mother wanted to see the bright lights of Miami; my
father and I wanted to go fishing. The car didn't have AC but the
atmosphere in the car was chilly enough by the time we circumnavigated
Florida that it wasn't needed.

[26C.Z968]

None noticed ... but I did check :-)

>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeki_Wachee_Springs


It was a very long time ago, but I think the place
was called "Orange-Grove Sink". Kinda boot-shaped
down below. The bottom was like over 300 feet ...
you'd get nitrogen narcosis and/or a ridiculous
decompression schedule if you went down that far.

> I went there on a family vacation in the '60s. Interesting. I miss
> family vacations. My mother wanted to see the bright lights of Miami; my
> father and I wanted to go fishing. The car didn't have AC but the
> atmosphere in the car was chilly enough by the time we circumnavigated
> Florida that it wasn't needed.

I am of the age where "family vacations" were still
the norm. We went to all kinds of interesting places.

I remember a new place in Florida called "Lion Country
Safari". You had to roll up the windows - in a car with
no A/C - in the summer. Almost had a seizure from the heat ...

On the plus, back then, unaccompanied minors were
perfectly safe walking the streets of Miami or
West Palm day or night .......

[rbowman]

On 9/30/22 21:43, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>   I am of the age where "family vacations" were still
>   the norm. We went to all kinds of interesting places.

My brother went to work at Boeing and one summer we drove out to visit
from upstate NY. This was the early '50s and I was five. Of course there
was no interstate. We took the northern route out hitting Yellowstone
and swung south coming back to the Grand Canyon and the mostly on Route 66.

Years later I revisited Yellowstone. There is a boardwalk through a
thermal area with mudpots and I remembered it as being more impressive.
I asked a ranger and he said the '59 earthquake had disrupted many of
the thermal features. The bears had been banished. In the '50s they
would line up along the road and beg for snacks. I also remember walking
back to the cabin after a campfire presentation and seeing a bear
sorting through the garbage.

Anyone who thinks young kids don't benefit from experiences is wrong.

Boeing sent my brother to Redstone so my mother and I drove down in '58.
That was also educational for a Yankee kid since Alabama was fully
segregated. That was the year George Wallace lost the primary for
governor and said 'And I'll tell you here and now, I will never be
outniggered again.' The campaigns were all about race and Wallace had
been fairly liberal up to that point. I'm sure von Braun had some
interesting thoughts on American hypocrisy.

[26C.Z968]

The 50s were an "interesting" - ok "terrifying" - time.

But a lot more REAL than these Dali-esque days.

"Reality" seems dead. Yea, yea, you can quote the Buddha
on that but, come on ...

Orwell's world has come TRUE. They used his works as
an instruction manual. "Soft" Truth all the time.

Without hard data you can make no real decisions.

[rbowman]

On 9/30/22 23:32, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>   The 50s were an "interesting" - ok "terrifying" - time.
>
>   But a lot more REAL than these Dali-esque days.
>
>   "Reality" seems dead. Yea, yea, you can quote the Buddha
>   on that but, come on ...
>
>   Orwell's world has come TRUE. They used his works as
>   an instruction manual. "Soft" Truth all the time.
>
>   Without hard data you can make no real decisions.

People have been whining about the good old days since the time of
Hesiod but the '50s and early '60s weren't as weird. It wasn't trouble
free. I remember some tense supper table discussions during the
Eisenhower recession and then there was the missile thing with Kennedy.

Or maybe it's just that kids are more hopeful and naive. Eisenhower
wasn't really an avuncular old guy who liked to play golf and Kennedy
was laying the groundwork for a disastrous war. All I remember about the
Truman era was the radio broadcasts saying how many MiGs were shot down
that day. In retrospect we probably shot down more planes than MiG ever
made but I trusted the smooth talking adult on the radio.

[26C.Z968]

The underlying tension of the 50s thru 60s was the
shadow of nuclear war. There was an assumption,
bolstered by some govt organs and 'experts' and then
Hollywood, that The End Was Near. I remember the
Civil Defense drills in school - even doing the
"hide under your desk" thing (if the nuke didn't
getcha then the germ-infested gum under the desk
surely would).

I suspect this sense of doom contributed to the rapid
social changes of the 50s/60s. If you're gonna get
melted tomorrow, well, may as well party today. That
sort of global threat had never existed before and
you could not just pick up a sword and go fight
against 'them' - it was out of your hands, a couple
of men with red buttons.

The advent of television also mixed news and cultural
factors to a previously-impossible level ... the
USA and Europe suddenly seemed just down the street
from each other instead of way way 'over there'.
I remember the debut of the Telstar satellite ... now
"down the street" became "next door".

Though nukewar still looms, I think everybody eventually
became kinda 'used to it' and other concerns and trivial
issues came to predominate. Worries about Khrushchev
became worries over how the Kardashians were faring this
week.

[rbowman]

On 10/1/22 13:17, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>   The underlying tension of the 50s thru 60s was the
>   shadow of nuclear war. There was an assumption,
>   bolstered by some govt organs and 'experts' and then
>   Hollywood, that The End Was Near. I remember the
>   Civil Defense drills in school - even doing the
>   "hide under your desk" thing (if the nuke didn't
>   getcha then the germ-infested gum under the desk
>   surely would).

I think it was Mechanix Illustrated that ran a cover story one month
with a zombie with melting flesh worthy of a horror comic that described
radiation sickness in detain. Being within miles of the Watervliet
Arsenal didn't increase anybody's sense of security either.

A family moved into town and had a house built. This may be a false
memory but I think a bomb shelter was incorporated into the plans.

I remember one college professor who rambled on about the existential
angst our generation suffered from because of the nuclear threat. By
then my angst had more to do with sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll or the 1A
classification that came with the diploma.

There was an anti-war demonstration on campus. There were less than a
dozen on the anti-war side of the fence. Engineers knew who buttered
their bread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyq4HZZ4H50

[26C.Z968]

On 10/1/22 4:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 10/1/22 13:17, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>>    The underlying tension of the 50s thru 60s was the
>>    shadow of nuclear war. There was an assumption,
>>    bolstered by some govt organs and 'experts' and then
>>    Hollywood, that The End Was Near. I remember the
>>    Civil Defense drills in school - even doing the
>>    "hide under your desk" thing (if the nuke didn't
>>    getcha then the germ-infested gum under the desk
>>    surely would).
>
> I think it was Mechanix Illustrated that ran a cover story one month
> with a zombie with melting flesh worthy of a horror comic that described
> radiation sickness in detain. Being within miles of the Watervliet
> Arsenal didn't increase anybody's sense of security either.
>
> A family moved into town and had a house built. This may be a false
> memory but I think a bomb shelter was incorporated into the plans.

My folks knew a guy with a large basement shelter, I'd
seen it. However he was one of those rich show-off types ;
I don't think he really thought there'd be an attack, he
just wanted to impress people.

> I remember one college professor who rambled on about the existential
> angst our generation suffered from because of the nuclear threat. By
> then my angst had more to do with sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll or the 1A
> classification that came with the diploma.

Nothing wrong with sex & drugs & rock-n-roll for a
college student ... no need for angst :-)

But that's the individual level ... I was speaking of
the whole-culture effects of the dangling sword. Sex &
Drugs & Rock-n-Roll - rather than ultracon stick-up-
the-ass attitudes towards life - were a result of that
broad brush. The closest thing perhaps were the Black
Death plagues. However those were seen as 'acts of god',
not something mere mortal kings could inflict in some
dick-measuring contest.

> There was an anti-war demonstration on campus. There were less than a
> dozen on the anti-war side of the fence. Engineers knew who buttered
> their bread.

The anti-war thing escalated, of course - unfortunately
it also became a kinda pro-commie thing ... little red
books and such, anti-American rants from people who had
never heard what Stalin an Mao had done to their own
and were eager to do to everybody else. The Original
Hippies were mostly libertarians ... but by the late
60s the destroy-America leftists became predominant.

As for buttered bread, yea, that CAN be persuasive.
Alas the leftists always promise 'the downtrodden'
that they'll steal YOUR bread and disperse it to
the more-worthy masses. That's persuasive too.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyq4HZZ4H50

[rbowman]

On 10/1/22 15:29, 26C.Z968 wrote:
> But that's the individual level ... I was speaking of
>   the whole-culture effects of the dangling sword. Sex &
>   Drugs & Rock-n-Roll - rather than ultracon stick-up-
>   the-ass attitudes towards life  - were a result of that
>   broad brush. The closest thing perhaps were the Black
>   Death plagues. However those were seen as 'acts of god',
>   not something mere mortal kings could inflict in some
>   dick-measuring contest.

Maybe. Ed Sullivan and Lawrence Welk were hints that it might be time to
do something different. I see a lot of parallels to the New England
Transcendentalist era of the 1820's to the 50's. Emerson put the end at
Margaret Fuller's death sort of like the funeral for Hippie, Son of
Media. They didn't have rock'n'roll though.

>   The anti-war thing escalated, of course - unfortunately
>   it also became a kinda pro-commie thing ... little red
>   books and such, anti-American rants from people who had
>   never heard what Stalin an Mao had done to their own
>   and were eager to do to everybody else. The Original
>   Hippies were mostly libertarians ... but by the late
>   60s the destroy-America leftists became predominant.

My long hair was hiding my red neck; still is for that matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1EFlMKV6sY

My light reading at the time was more up the lines of 'A Texan Looks at
Lyndon' or 'None Dare Call It Treason' than the Little Red Book. I did
read Guevara's 'Guerilla Warfare' and 'Bolivian Diary'. He forgot every
thing he knew when he went to Bolivia.

[26C.Z968]

On 10/1/22 7:34 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On 10/1/22 15:29, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>> But that's the individual level ... I was speaking of
>>    the whole-culture effects of the dangling sword. Sex &
>>    Drugs & Rock-n-Roll - rather than ultracon stick-up-
>>    the-ass attitudes towards life  - were a result of that
>>    broad brush. The closest thing perhaps were the Black
>>    Death plagues. However those were seen as 'acts of god',
>>    not something mere mortal kings could inflict in some
>>    dick-measuring contest.
>
> Maybe. Ed Sullivan and Lawrence Welk were hints that it might be time to
> do something different. I see a lot of parallels to the New England
> Transcendentalist era of the 1820's to the 50's. Emerson put the end at
> Margaret Fuller's death sort of like the funeral for Hippie, Son of
> Media. They didn't have rock'n'roll though.

They had sex & drugs though :-)

Ed was a show-biz opportunist and just went with what
looked like the latest, exploitable, trend. He did not
seem to love the new hippie-dippie artists, but they
were popular, thus profitable.

Welk was just *weird*. However he had his niche.

Now if you want flaming gayness ... Liberace !

The Emerson/Thoreau clique did have a few things in common
with the later hippie-dippies - including the biggest ERROR
of the hippie-dippies. Remember Thoreau wrote a whole book
about "living free" ... but, actually, it WASN'T "free" -
his friends SUPPORTED his "free" living down by the lake.
The hippie-dippies also imagined they could live free and
wild and off every grid ... but in truth they DEPENDED on
those grids for a great many things. They, like Thoreau,
were parasites, living off the wealth of The System.

Then there's the anti-establishment/anarchist bands -
banging away on their electric instruments in big
stadiums raking in big salaries ....

The Euro matching movement of Emerson's times, including
the Shelley's and Byron, were not so deluded about living
off of others. Indeed they preferred the high style.
Kudos to Mrs Shelley though - seems her "Modern Prometheus"
is the plot of half the movies you still see, disguised in
some form or another.

"I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that".

>>    The anti-war thing escalated, of course - unfortunately
>>    it also became a kinda pro-commie thing ... little red
>>    books and such, anti-American rants from people who had
>>    never heard what Stalin an Mao had done to their own
>>    and were eager to do to everybody else. The Original
>>    Hippies were mostly libertarians ... but by the late
>>    60s the destroy-America leftists became predominant.
>
> My long hair was hiding my red neck; still is for that matter.

I'm running out of hair for that use.

But when the last strand falls, I want it to
be a foot long :-)

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1EFlMKV6sY
>
> My light reading at the time was more up the lines of 'A Texan Looks at
> Lyndon' or 'None Dare Call It Treason' than the Little Red Book. I did
> read Guevara's 'Guerilla Warfare' and 'Bolivian Diary'. He forgot every
> thing he knew when he went to Bolivia.

Che was a (dangerous) flake.

I have copies of hyperleft stuff too - Saul Alinsky's stuff,
I recently even located a copy of something entitled "The
Student As Nigger" and Abbie Hoffman stuff. It is smart to
study the developing opposition ya know :-)

I note certain entities that still seem to use Alinsky
as a handbook.

I was never a proper leftie or rightie ... indeed I dislike
the extremes - commie/nazi/theo - because they do NOT have
the General Interest at heart - just self-empowerment and/or
bloody revenge no matter what BS they put in their manifestos.

I rather like the US founders as a group, kinda "Power To The
People (but let's not get STUPID about it)". I generally
refer to that as "small-L libertarianism". The most freedoms
and best lives for the most people are not found at any extreme.

I wish the Founders had solved the slavery thing back then,
but I do realize the political and economic issues that
made them table the issue. Forging a United States had to
come first. Alas, that done, they FORGOT about dealing
with the slavery thing - someone else's problem ...

As for Little Red Books ... that got SO bad that John Lennon
had to pen "And if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao,
you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow". They should play
that one more often, for all those - low AND high - that
seem to worship the image of chairman Xi.

I knew an old Marine who was was always pissed when he
heard "Back In The USSR" on the radio. Tough old bird.
In his mid 80s he beat up some aggressive thug who tried
to rob him so badly the cops had zero problem identifying
the perp, indeed I think they took him to the ER before
jail. Semper Fi to the end.

I told him to listen to the song *carefully* ... it was in
no way an endorsement of the USSR, quite the opposite.
Lennon was good with lyrics, could hide meanings inside
of things by manipulating timing, cadence and tone. The
Boys did seem to like their KGB-assigned *women* though :-)

[rbowman]

On 10/1/22 19:30, 26C.Z968 wrote:
>
>   Welk was just *weird*. However he had his niche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8tdmaEhMHE

I think the troops were messing with Ol' Lawrence.

>   Now if you want flaming gayness ... Liberace !

My family would get together with my aunt and uncle every Saturday. An
ongoing topic of discussion was whether Liberace was really a fag or
just laughing all the way to the bank.

>   The Emerson/Thoreau clique did have a few things in common
>   with the later hippie-dippies - including the biggest ERROR
>   of the hippie-dippies. Remember Thoreau wrote a whole book
>   about "living free" ... but, actually, it WASN'T "free" -
>   his friends SUPPORTED his "free" living down by the lake.
>   The hippie-dippies also imagined they could live free and
>   wild and off every grid ... but in truth they DEPENDED on
>   those grids for a great many things. They, like Thoreau,
>   were parasites, living off the wealth of The System.

It was Emerson's wood lot. There is only a cairn where the cabin was but
it about a mile stroll through the Concord town woods to Emerson's back
door. There is a rumor Thoreau was making the journey even when Ralph
was off on lecture tours.

Bronson Alcott's Fruitlands was the prototype for the hippie communes.
They were vegans and not very good at growing vegetables. Louisa May
wrote a book about their hapless experiment. Brook Farm was another
disaster, yielding plenty of satirical material from Hawthorne.

About 130 years later I got a chuckle from a scrawny little urbanite
attacking a plot that had never been plowed with a rototiller. Even with
a patch that has been worked before it helps to weigh in at 200 pounds
to chase one of those around.

>   Che was a (dangerous) flake.

He was a good lesson in how not to do it. When he noticed the Bolivians
were either apathetic or hostile he should have headed for greener
pastures. The various incarnations of the IRA never had that many
members but they did have a lot of sympathizers feeding and hiding them.

>   I have copies of hyperleft stuff too - Saul Alinsky's stuff,
>   I recently even located a copy of something entitled "The
>   Student As Nigger" and Abbie Hoffman stuff. It is smart to
>   study the developing opposition ya know :-)
>
>   I note certain entities that still seem to use Alinsky
>   as a handbook.

I never could understand the 'conservatives' that were butt hurt over
'Rules for Radicals'. If it is so damn effective they should be sleeping
with it under their pillow and using it.

>   I rather like the US founders as a group, kinda "Power To The
>   People (but let's not get STUPID about it)". I generally
>   refer to that as "small-L libertarianism". The most freedoms
>   and best lives for the most people are not found at any extreme.

That lasted all the way to John Adams with the Alien and Sedition Acts.

>   I wish the Founders had solved the slavery thing back then,
>   but I do realize the political and economic issues that
>   made them table the issue. Forging a United States had to
>   come first. Alas, that done, they FORGOT about dealing
>   with the slavery thing - someone else's problem ...

That could have been handled after the Civil War with free one-way
tickets to Liberia.

>
>   As for Little Red Books ... that got SO bad that John Lennon
>   had to pen "And if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao,
>   you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow". They should play
>   that one more often, for all those - low AND high - that
>   seem to worship the image of chairman Xi.

i wasn't a big Beatles/Lennon fan but I liked 'Working Class Hero'. The
rose colored granny glasses must have slipped the day he wrote that.

>   I told him to listen to the song *carefully* ... it was in
>   no way an endorsement of the USSR, quite the opposite.
>   Lennon was good with lyrics, could hide meanings inside
>   of things by manipulating timing, cadence and tone. The
>   Boys did seem to like their KGB-assigned *women* though :-)

There are a few politicians who should listen to 'Born in the USA' a
little more carefully.