Looking for quality tactical backpack
h...@nospam.org
tougher than nails, will last through upcoming war (in case there is
one). Want something with lots of internal pockets and external
straps and built in hydro bladder. Something I can load up with 20
pounds of ammo and provisions for a few days but small and light
enough to not be too cumbersome when speed and agility are critical.
Price not a concern but don't like to get ripped off. Suggestions
greatly appreciated.
Frank Gilliland
<l7snf4hqho2ddp8rp...@4ax.com>:
I think you're looking for the "Stallone 3000" with the optional
anti-gravity frame (batteries not included) and the trans-dermal
adrenaline-injecting shoulder straps. Or, even better, pay a vist to
your favorite dungeon-master and pick up a portable hole.
Jeff McCann
Take a look at the MAP 3500 by Kelty. I was turned onto them by an ex-
SEAL friend of mine. Apparently, they are fond of them. They are one of
the few packs of that size with an actual load transferring frame. I am
very pleased with mine.
http://www.amronintl.com/products.cfm?Item=25904999
Jeff
None4You
"Jeff McCann" <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote in message
news:dtqdnSr4fdxzgmHV...@earthlink.com...
Stay away from the Bolle or current US military gear. They have been falling
apart in combat. The Germans, British , and Canadian gear seems ok.
Jeff McCann
Thanks, but as far as I know, the Kelty MAP 3500 isn't military issue,
and it isn't likely to fall apart anytime soon, either, based on my
experience with mine over the past few years.
Jeff
None4You
"Jeff McCann" <NoS...@NoThanks.org> wrote in message
I wasn't insinuating that your pack was a military pack. I was replying to
the original poster as I use a lot of military gear. Kelty makes decent
gear. VG
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <ermdnXElr-2L2GHV...@centurytel.net>:
They do. And the old Alice packs are about as tough as you can get
(don't know about new ones, tho). But seriously, look at the original
post....... "20 pounds of ammo and provisions for a few days but small
and light enough to not be too cumbersome when speed and agility are
critical". Heck, just the 20 lbs of ammo is going to be "cumbersome
when speed and agility are critical", not to mention the weight of any
weapon that can shoot that much ammo in "a few days" without melting
the barrel, or the likelyhood that anyone would voluntarily remain in
a situation where he would need that much ammo. And a pack that weighs
an extra pound or two isn't going to make a lick of difference when
carrying over 60 lbs of gear.
Then consider the nature of his most recent posts -- body armor,
"rattly snaps", razor-sharp knives...... I may be the only one seeing
this here, but either he's been watching too many Rambo movies or he's
planning a killing spree.
h...@nospam.org
<wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>
>They do. And the old Alice packs are about as tough as you can get
>(don't know about new ones, tho). But seriously, look at the original
>post....... "20 pounds of ammo and provisions for a few days but small
>and light enough to not be too cumbersome when speed and agility are
>critical". Heck, just the 20 lbs of ammo is going to be "cumbersome
>when speed and agility are critical", not to mention the weight of any
>weapon that can shoot that much ammo in "a few days" without melting
>the barrel, or the likelyhood that anyone would voluntarily remain in
>a situation where he would need that much ammo. And a pack that weighs
>an extra pound or two isn't going to make a lick of difference when
>carrying over 60 lbs of gear.
>
>Then consider the nature of his most recent posts -- body armor,
>"rattly snaps", razor-sharp knives...... I may be the only one seeing
>this here, but either he's been watching too many Rambo movies or he's
>planning a killing spree.
Not all all, all my request have been very objective requests about
critical tools for a survival situation. A small, but rugged light
pack that is not too cumbersome but can carry "20 pounds of ammo AND
provisions". Read for comprehension. The 20 pounds is total
including provisions. Extremely sharp blades are a critical survival
issue whether it's razors, skinning/boning knives, or axes. "If I had
eight hours to cut down a tree, I'ld spend 7 hours sharpening my axe."
Abraham Lincoln. And I suggest you read up on body armor. Recently
someone posted an article from someone in Argentina who went through
the economic meltdown and subsequent civil unrest there. Read what he
said about body armor. If you're in a critical life or death
situation and some shooting breaks out, you'ld wish you had some.
And these are all legit survival topics. If you don't want to discuss
survival topics and just be and idiot asshole, then go to
talk.assholes, and don't bother people here.
Hal
h...@nospam.org
wrote:
thanks for the suggestion. Looks like a quality item and I'm familiar
with Kelty's quality. I will check it out.
Hal
>
>
>Jeff
h...@nospam.org
<wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>Then consider the nature of his most recent posts -- body armor,
>"rattly snaps", razor-sharp knives...... I may be the only one seeing
>this here, but either he's been watching too many Rambo movies or he's
>planning a killing spree.
>
and besides, dickhead, not everyone considers what you need to take to
the church picnic a legit survival discussion.
ShadowTek
> Take a look at the MAP 3500 by Kelty. I was turned onto them by an ex-
> SEAL friend of mine. Apparently, they are fond of them. They are one of
> the few packs of that size with an actual load transferring frame. I am
> very pleased with mine.
>
> http://www.amronintl.com/products.cfm?Item=25904999
$130 !!! It better be tough for that price.
I'm just gonna keep modifying my $40 (new) medium ALICE pack.
Frank Gilliland
<uktof4125mg8vb9e5...@4ax.com>:
>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:23:17 -0700, Frank Gilliland
><wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>They do. And the old Alice packs are about as tough as you can get
>>(don't know about new ones, tho). But seriously, look at the original
>>post....... "20 pounds of ammo and provisions for a few days but small
>>and light enough to not be too cumbersome when speed and agility are
>>critical". Heck, just the 20 lbs of ammo is going to be "cumbersome
>>when speed and agility are critical", not to mention the weight of any
>>weapon that can shoot that much ammo in "a few days" without melting
>>the barrel, or the likelyhood that anyone would voluntarily remain in
>>a situation where he would need that much ammo. And a pack that weighs
>>an extra pound or two isn't going to make a lick of difference when
>>carrying over 60 lbs of gear.
>>
>>Then consider the nature of his most recent posts -- body armor,
>>"rattly snaps", razor-sharp knives...... I may be the only one seeing
>>this here, but either he's been watching too many Rambo movies or he's
>>planning a killing spree.
>
>Not all all, all my request have been very objective requests about
>critical tools for a survival situation. A small, but rugged light
>pack that is not too cumbersome but can carry "20 pounds of ammo AND
>provisions". Read for comprehension. The 20 pounds is total
>including provisions.
You said, "20 pounds of ammo and provisions for a few days". Any
normal person would include ammo as a provision, but you made it
specific and seperate, and noted an extrordinary amount.
> Extremely sharp blades are a critical survival
>issue whether it's razors, skinning/boning knives, or axes. "If I had
>eight hours to cut down a tree, I'ld spend 7 hours sharpening my axe."
>Abraham Lincoln.
And you lose that razor edge with the first chop. Several others noted
the same thing I did, that you -don't- need all your knives to be
razor sharp unless you intend to shave with them.
> And I suggest you read up on body armor. Recently
>someone posted an article from someone in Argentina who went through
>the economic meltdown and subsequent civil unrest there. Read what he
>said about body armor. If you're in a critical life or death
>situation and some shooting breaks out, you'ld wish you had some.
Does Beirut count? Because if it does then I can guarantee that no
body armor is going to stop a high-power rifle round, not even from an
AK. It won't protect any areas that are left exposed, and I can
personally attest to the fact that it won't protect your legs.
If shooting breaks out, the only thing that's going to save your life
is for you to get the fuck out of Dodge. The longer you stay the more
likely you are to die, body armor or not. You waste precious time
strapping the thing on, it hinders movement and blocks perspiration,
and even if it saves your life by stopping a handgun bullet fired
accurately then you are still going to be incapacitated long enough
for the BG to finish the job. Body armor works great for police and
military only because of the nature of their activities. Those are the
facts and they come from 1st-hand observation -and- experience.
>And these are all legit survival topics. If you don't want to discuss
>survival topics and just be and idiot asshole, then go to
>talk.assholes, and don't bother people here.
All these topics have been discussed at length. You have been given
good feedback on all of them by myself and others. But apparently you
don't want to listen to any facts that don't fit into your Rambo-esque
fantasy. That's your choice. It's my choice to point out your error.
garlicman
"ShadowTek" <fa...@email.address> wrote in message
news:Xns9B3D8531652D5p...@85.214.105.209...
The ALICE pack is tried and proven. They are readily available and aren't so
likely to stand out in a crowd as a fancy $140 pack. Keeping a low profile
can include buying used items that are in good condition or items that are
common. If you appear unusual for some reason, you are more likely to be
searched, detained, spotted, etc.
Frank Gilliland
<tcWdncwPAbpVR2HV...@comcast.com>:
Especially if you are carrying a weapon in a combat zone. If you
aren't fully cooperative with whatever gang or militia is controlling
your neighborhood, or just -look- like you might put up a fight, then
you will be killed outright for being an unknown threat. If you decide
not to die in a shoot-out then you will probably be detained and your
gear confiscated; and if they let you walk away with the clothes on
your back then consider yourself damn lucky because more than likely
you will be executed or forced into involuntary servitude, depending
on your health, fitness and attitude.
If you get caught in a combat zone then your best chance for survival
is to forget your stuff, disguise yourself as an old man/woman or an
invalid, blend in with the rest of the refugees and boogie. Hopefully
you will be smart enough to preposition a survival cache somewhere
outside the combat zone and/or leave the area before the combat
starts. If not then get used to the idea of being cold and hungry and
begging for handouts.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>h...@nospam.org wrote:
I second that
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
Gunner Asch
How much is your labor worth? That $130 may be a bargain.
Btw..I have a pair of Kelty Clouds. (5250)
Try those for sticker shock.....
Gunner
Gunner Asch
Alice gear, particularly Alice II is decent enough stuff..but keep in
mind..they were made by the lowest bidder at the minimun standards
I have quite a number of Alice packs..most of which are still in good
condition, but then...the ones Ive used extensively started to fall
apart in only a few years..hence the numbers of backup spares I keep
on hand
If you dont plan on using them extensivly...they are ok
Chasseur
"Frank Gilliland" <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:khfpf4ttlvs65mq6q...@4ax.com...
I think Hal's questions were all legitimate and on topic subjects for this
group. Even if a topic has been discussed extensively in the past,
improvements on equipment may become available etc. Furthermore there are
plenty of people who are new readers of what is being posted and a regular
shakedown of the basics is a good idea even if they could effectively
research the archives by themselves. Finally I am not sure it is such a
good idea to suggest even as a joke, that a poster is planning a quote
killing spree unquote considering the fact that unsavory government types
are surely patrolling this group as well as many others. Courtesy is also
as always a good idea.
Chasseur
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <6E9Lk.5$0z3...@wagner.videotron.net>:
<snip>
>I think Hal's questions were all legitimate and on topic subjects for this
>group. Even if a topic has been discussed extensively in the past,
>improvements on equipment may become available etc.
I call it like I see it. Hal -usually- has some very good posts. But
very recently his focus has shifted to a more offensive and militant
perspective. I might expect such things from Gummer because he's a
nitwit. Hal isn't.
> Furthermore there are
>plenty of people who are new readers of what is being posted and a regular
>shakedown of the basics is a good idea even if they could effectively
>research the archives by themselves.
Which is why I wrote what I did.
> Finally I am not sure it is such a
>good idea to suggest even as a joke, that a poster is planning a quote
>killing spree unquote considering the fact that unsavory government types
>are surely patrolling this group as well as many others.
You give this group -- and the government -- too much credit.
> Courtesy is also
>as always a good idea.
Not always.
h...@nospam.org
<wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:43:29 -0400, "Chasseur" <ycas...@zid.com>
>wrote in <6E9Lk.5$0z3...@wagner.videotron.net>:
>
><snip>
>>I think Hal's questions were all legitimate and on topic subjects for this
>>group. Even if a topic has been discussed extensively in the past,
>>improvements on equipment may become available etc.
>
>
>I call it like I see it. Hal -usually- has some very good posts. But
>very recently his focus has shifted to a more offensive and militant
>perspective. I might expect such things from Gummer because he's a
>nitwit. Hal isn't.
Well, thanks for that much, anyway. But the point here is planning
lots of surivival and self-sustaining mechanisms into your lifestyle
will do absolutely no good whatsoever if you can't defend them. And
you can't defend them without adequate weapons and carry/supply
equipment for your weapons.
Hal
h...@nospam.org
<wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>Especially if you are carrying a weapon in a combat zone. If you
>aren't fully cooperative with whatever gang or militia is controlling
>your neighborhood, or just -look- like you might put up a fight, then
>you will be killed outright for being an unknown threat. If you decide
>not to die in a shoot-out then you will probably be detained and your
>gear confiscated; and if they let you walk away with the clothes on
>your back then consider yourself damn lucky because more than likely
>you will be executed or forced into involuntary servitude, depending
>on your health, fitness and attitude.
>
>If you get caught in a combat zone then your best chance for survival
>is to forget your stuff, disguise yourself as an old man/woman or an
>invalid, blend in with the rest of the refugees and boogie. Hopefully
>you will be smart enough to preposition a survival cache somewhere
>outside the combat zone and/or leave the area before the combat
>starts. If not then get used to the idea of being cold and hungry and
>begging for handouts.
>
I see, disguise yourself as an old man and flee the area.
now there's a survival strategy for a real man.
Hal
Karsten Kruse
>> If you get caught in a combat zone then your best chance for survival
>> is to forget your stuff, disguise yourself as an old man/woman or an
>> invalid, blend in with the rest of the refugees and boogie.
> I see, disguise yourself as an old man and flee the area.
> now there's a survival strategy for a real man.
Makes sense to me. What is your strategy? Dig in and fight them all?
Karsten
--
All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand ....
Frank Gilliland
<u2irf498u3p0jml68...@4ax.com>:
>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:56:35 -0700, Frank Gilliland
><wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:43:29 -0400, "Chasseur" <ycas...@zid.com>
>>wrote in <6E9Lk.5$0z3...@wagner.videotron.net>:
>>
>><snip>
>>>I think Hal's questions were all legitimate and on topic subjects for this
>>>group. Even if a topic has been discussed extensively in the past,
>>>improvements on equipment may become available etc.
>>
>>
>>I call it like I see it. Hal -usually- has some very good posts. But
>>very recently his focus has shifted to a more offensive and militant
>>perspective. I might expect such things from Gummer because he's a
>>nitwit. Hal isn't.
>
>Well, thanks for that much, anyway. But the point here is planning
>lots of surivival and self-sustaining mechanisms into your lifestyle
>will do absolutely no good whatsoever if you can't defend them. And
>you can't defend them without adequate weapons and carry/supply
>equipment for your weapons.
Not everyone who ever survived a desperate situation relied upon a
weapon. Violence should be your last resort for defense because it
dramatically reduces your chances of survival. You can be armed to the
teeth and armored just as well but still lose a fight. All it takes is
one little mistake, or one well-placed bullet, or one poorly-placed
bullet. Or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time -- which
happens quite often wherever and whenever there is violence.
Your best survival tool is your brain, and your most effective tactic
is to prepare. That doesn't mean stocking up on guns and ammo. It
means thinking ahead about what situations you are likely to face,
developing skills to handle those situations, and learning all you can
to best utilize those skills. And if that means swallowing your manly
pride and running from a fight then that's what you do because the
alternative can be much worse.
Honestly, I can't really blame people for having a John Wayne
mentality. That's what most societies nurture from early childhood.
Browse through the toy department of your local China-Mart and try
-not- to find a toy gun. Look for a video game that doesn't encourage
violence. How many action movies don't have some sort of gunplay? (I
can only think of one: "Twister", and Helen Hunt makes it even
better!)
When you are done examining the not-so-subtle nature of this Platonian
Republic, go visit the cemetary at Arlington. More graves than you can
count. Then remember that almost all of them were armed and prepared
for combat, and had support networks far more extensive than what you
will -ever- have. They still ended up dead.
If you want to play out your favorite shoot-em-up-bang-bang movie then
that's your business. Just so you know that it's not a very good plan
if you want to live.
h...@nospam.org
you're an idiot. I suggest you learn something about history. People
who have needed to fought to survive and they survived because they
fought who would take what they have. So what is it, you just don't
like guns? Or you don't like fighting? You some pacifist who is just
planning on laying down and dying if a group comes to your door and
demands your food? You afraid? Or maybe you just don't have
anything to fight for. Feel free to run and hide if that's your
strategy. I have land in the mountains with water, wood, greenhouses,
animals, and I have a family. And the only way I can be sure to keep
those things is being prepared to fight for them. You feel free to
disguise yourself as a woman and run and hide. I'm not going to live
like a scared rabbit cowering in the bushes.
Hal
Frank Gilliland
<u3asf412u1dc8ljt5...@4ax.com>:
So I've been told.
> I suggest you learn something about history.
And I suggest you learn something about the people you call an idiot.
I lived through a bit of history in Beirut, Lebanon. Go ahead and wiki
the subject if you aren't familiar with the details. IOW, I have seen
TSHTF in the way you anticipate -- a chaotic civil war. I experienced
it not through a boob-tube in the comfort of my own home but by being
there in person, with all my senses, and got a hole in my leg to prove
it. I'm trying to tell you that it's ugly beyond imagination. There is
nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- that you can read or watch on TV that
can give you real insight into what happens in situations like that.
Suffice it to say that the only people who willingly remain in such
places are either idiots, mentally unbalanced, or very evil people
looking to do very evil things to others. Mostly the latter.
Was I be scared? Damn straight! You will be too if it happens to you.
But one difference worth noting is that I went there as a Marine, with
all the support and training that was available to one of the top
units in the US military (8th Marine Regiment). If you don't have that
kind of preparation, and if you aren't one of the sick MFs that enjoys
warfare, then you will either take my advice and leave like all the
other smart people who want to live, or you will hide in a corner of a
building crying like a baby until someone decides to put you out of
your misery -- but only after they torture you a little just for fun
and practice. Because that's the kind of shit that -really- happens.
Oh, and I should probably mention that there are no 'good guys' in
these kinds of wars. Case in point: One incident that sticks in my
mind was when I was sent to restore comm to a US/Israeli CP on the
wrong side of the Green Line. When I got there everyone was about a
click away watching a school burning, and since that's where the
radios were, that's where I went. What I saw when I got there was
three Israeli officers and one US officer taking shots at the kids and
others as they were trying to run from the burning building. Just like
a shooting gallery but with real, live kids instead of metal ducks.
And these officers were laughing it up and having a good ol' time. The
worst part? I found myself wanting to take a few shots myself. So if
you expect anyone to come save your ass when you get in over your
head, think again. Even if you manage to survive then it's entirely
possible that you'll turn into one of those monsters yourself, because
the only way to survive in such a place is to pay homage to Conrad and
embrace the horror. From the sound of your recent posts, it sounds
like that's your current direction.
BTW, I'm not saying any of this for -my- sake, and if you think
differently then -you- are the idiot. Do what you want because I've
said more than enough.
Chuck James
"Frank Gilliland" <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote in message
news:khfpf4ttlvs65mq6q...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:22:44 -0600, h...@nospam.org wrote in
> <uktof4125mg8vb9e5...@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:23:17 -0700, Frank Gilliland
>><wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> And I suggest you read up on body armor. Recently
>>someone posted an article from someone in Argentina who went through
>>the economic meltdown and subsequent civil unrest there. Read what he
>>said about body armor. If you're in a critical life or death
>>situation and some shooting breaks out, you'ld wish you had some.
>
>
> Does Beirut count? Because if it does then I can guarantee that no
> body armor is going to stop a high-power rifle round, not even from an
> AK. It won't protect any areas that are left exposed, and I can
> personally attest to the fact that it won't protect your legs.
>
Modern Body Armor CAN stop rifle rounds, maybe not ALL rifle rounds, but
there is a popular video of a Corpsman in Iraq which was being filmed while
a "sniper" shot him in the chest, from what looks to be just a couple
hundred yards or so. The Corpsman went down, but managed to stagger back to
his feet and seek cover. They wounded and caught the enemy sniper , and the
very same Corpsman which he shot, was the first responder to the sniper.
I ASSUME the sniper was using an AK-47 with FMJ, but not armor piercing
bullets, but the point is, the body armor CAN stop rifle rounds used by
modern military combatants. No, it won't protect your head or legs, but why
would you give up any protection just because something doesn't protect you
from everything?
I don't have any body armor, but in a situation where there might be SOME
shooting, I would feel much safer with it on than with just my shirt and/or
coat. The idea of survivalism is NOT to "go to war" but to survive whatever
happens, using the best tools you have. The best tool you have is your
brain, but other tools come in mighty handy too.
robert bowman
> I ASSUME the sniper was using an AK-47 with FMJ, but not armor piercing
> bullets, but the point is, the body armor CAN stop rifle rounds used by
> modern military combatants.
NIJ Level III and IV can, but that's getting into steel or ceramic plates
and isn't exactly casual wear. The problem is that gear that is bulky, hot,
and heavy tends to be in the closet when you really need it.
Frank Gilliland
<C456...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
<ZSuLk.6082$YU2....@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>:
>
>"Frank Gilliland" <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote in message
>news:khfpf4ttlvs65mq6q...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:22:44 -0600, h...@nospam.org wrote in
>> <uktof4125mg8vb9e5...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:23:17 -0700, Frank Gilliland
>>><wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>
>>> And I suggest you read up on body armor. Recently
>>>someone posted an article from someone in Argentina who went through
>>>the economic meltdown and subsequent civil unrest there. Read what he
>>>said about body armor. If you're in a critical life or death
>>>situation and some shooting breaks out, you'ld wish you had some.
>>
>>
>> Does Beirut count? Because if it does then I can guarantee that no
>> body armor is going to stop a high-power rifle round, not even from an
>> AK. It won't protect any areas that are left exposed, and I can
>> personally attest to the fact that it won't protect your legs.
>>
>Modern Body Armor CAN stop rifle rounds, maybe not ALL rifle rounds, but
>there is a popular video of a Corpsman in Iraq which was being filmed while
>a "sniper" shot him in the chest, from what looks to be just a couple
>hundred yards or so.
How can you tell from the video how far away the shot came from? or
what kind of weapon fired the round? You can't.
> The Corpsman went down, but managed to stagger back to
>his feet and seek cover. They wounded and caught the enemy sniper , and the
>very same Corpsman which he shot, was the first responder to the sniper.
>I ASSUME
Well -there's- your problem.....
> the sniper was using an AK-47 with FMJ, but not armor piercing
>bullets, but the point is, the body armor CAN stop rifle rounds used by
>modern military combatants. No, it won't protect your head or legs, but why
>would you give up any protection just because something doesn't protect you
>from everything?
Several reasons:
1. Because it gives you a false sense of security;
2. Because someone might kill you for your gear;
3. Because you might be mistaken for a combatant;
4. Because someone might think you are wealthy and kidnap your family;
5. Because you are daring some Rambo-wannabe to take a head-shot;
6. Because it hinders movement and flexibility;
7. Because it is heavy (if it's worth a damn);
8. Because it blocks perspiration and you can overheat;
9. Because there are safer places to be than standing out in the open
in the middle of a combat zone.
Need more?
>I don't have any body armor, but in a situation where there might be SOME
>shooting, I would feel much safer with it on than with just my shirt and/or
>coat.
That "feeling" of safety can get you killed. You can disagree with
this if you want, but the fact is that you are more likely to take
unnecessary risks with the armor than without it. Taking extra risks
is not a very good survival plan, especially when the consequence of
drawing the wrong card is death.
> The idea of survivalism is NOT to "go to war" but to survive whatever
>happens, using the best tools you have. The best tool you have is your
>brain, but other tools come in mighty handy too.
And some can be more of a liability than an asset. I'm not saying that
you shouldn't buy a bullet-proof vest, just that you should weigh the
pros and cons very carefully and evaluate all the alternatives.
Karsten Kruse
>> No, it won't protect your head or legs, but why
>> would you give up any protection just because something doesn't protect you
>> from everything?
> 1. Because it gives you a false sense of security;
> That "feeling" of safety can get you killed. You can disagree with
> this if you want, but the fact is that you are more likely to take
> unnecessary risks with the armor than without it. Taking extra risks
> is not a very good survival plan, especially when the consequence of
> drawing the wrong card is death.
That's an interesting thought that i have seen applied to many problems.
For example, wearing a helmet on a bike gives you a sense of false
security, wich is why you tend to accept higher risks wich is why you are
more likely to have an accident. Except that there are no falsifiable
numbers to support that theory without a doubt.
How about every car had a spike on the steering wheel, about 20cm in
height. Would that lower the risk of involvement in a car crash? Probably
a bit, but the fatality rate would rise extremely. So, in the end, i think
an airbag is the better solution.
A little bit of security is better than nothing at all. However, i agree
that the best strategy is to get away from such situations in the first
place (even if it's disguised as an old woman, hal). But if you are indeed
forced in a situation that involves shooting, you better make a rational
decision about body armor (does it lower the risk of injury using body
armor or is better being fast?) depending on the situation at hand.
I always hated to wear body armor. Probably because all risks where
simulated ;).
CanopyCo
its self.
Provisions
Noun
1. A stock or supply of foods.
2. A store or supply (especially of food or clothing or arms).
Notice arms was the last entry of the second definition.
Food is first definition as well as first listed in second definition.
Looks like food is normally provisions, and arms can be included but
not required, so provisions and ammo is correct usage.
Getting out of dodge requires you to pass threw dodge on the way out,
so that requires one to know how to do so, and have the gear required
for the job.
A can of just about anything is nearly a pound.
Many are 15 oz + 1 oz for the can.
That looks like maybe 9 pounds for 3 days rations.
Water is a pound a pint (or 1 KG or 2.2 pounds per litter), so that
depends allot on location.
Desert?
A gallon is not to much at 9+ pounds.
Woods where fresh water is abundant?
2 pints is ok at 2 pounds.
Woods where fresh water is not abundant, but findable?
We are looking more at two quarts (or 2 litters) now, at around 4.5
pounds.
So we are looking at around 1 days rations of food, one quart of water
and maybe abut 200 rounds of ammo, +/-.
Basically a patrol pack that is short of ammo if they get in a fire
fight.
Then we look at the general gear weights and add that.
Also, look at dragon scales body armor, and ask active duty troops if
they consider body armor a waste of weight.
Some here may want to weight there pack before being rude about asking
for a 20 lb pack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Skin_body_armor
In a test for the History Channel's military show, "Mail Call", the
vest repelled nine rounds of steel-core ammunition from a WASR-10
(7.62 × 39 mm) and 35 rounds of 9 mm, all fired into a 10-by-12-inch
area on the vest. In "Test Lab", also on the History Channel, the vest
withstood 120 rounds fired from an AK-47 and MP5 (9 x 19 mm). In
another demonstration on the Discovery Channel series "Future
Weapons", a Dragon Skin vest withstood numerous rounds (including
steel cored armor-piercing rounds) from an AK-47, an MP5SD, an M-16A4
assault rifle (5.56 x 45 mm), and a point-blank detonation of an M67
grenade. While the vest was heavily damaged (mainly by the grenade),
there was no penetration of the armor.
http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin.php
The MIL-STD SOV-2000™ Level III flexible body armor system will defeat
the following rifle rounds that normally fall into the Level IV
category and all lesser threats.
7.62 x 39 mm 122 GR, steel case mild steel core: 2300 - 2400 fps.
5.56 x 45 mm 65 GR, M855 (SS109 Green tip): 3200 - 3300 fps.
Additionally, the SOV™ - D.O.D. 2000 flexible Level III system exceeds
the MIL-P-46593A fragmentation requirements around the high power
rifle defeating areas.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <b824t5-...@nntp.tecneeq.de>:
>Frank Gilliland schrieb:
>
>>> No, it won't protect your head or legs, but why
>>> would you give up any protection just because something doesn't protect you
>>> from everything?
>
>> 1. Because it gives you a false sense of security;
>
>> That "feeling" of safety can get you killed. You can disagree with
>> this if you want, but the fact is that you are more likely to take
>> unnecessary risks with the armor than without it. Taking extra risks
>> is not a very good survival plan, especially when the consequence of
>> drawing the wrong card is death.
>
>That's an interesting thought that i have seen applied to many problems.
>For example, wearing a helmet on a bike gives you a sense of false
>security, wich is why you tend to accept higher risks wich is why you are
>more likely to have an accident. Except that there are no falsifiable
>numbers to support that theory without a doubt.
I guess it depends on the nature of the risks. But there is proof of
my claim: Did you ever see the video of those two bank robbers in
SoCal dressed head-to-toe in body armor? They walked fearlessly
through a hail of gunfire for half an hour. Do you think they would
have done that if they weren't wearing the body armor? Of course not.
And if the cops had decent weapons that stroll would have been cut
short to about half a minute.
>How about every car had a spike on the steering wheel, about 20cm in
>height. Would that lower the risk of involvement in a car crash? Probably
>a bit, but the fatality rate would rise extremely. So, in the end, i think
>an airbag is the better solution.
But then you could argue that airbags give a false sense of security.
Again, no numbers.
>A little bit of security is better than nothing at all. However, i agree
>that the best strategy is to get away from such situations in the first
>place (even if it's disguised as an old woman, hal). But if you are indeed
>forced in a situation that involves shooting, you better make a rational
>decision about body armor (does it lower the risk of injury using body
>armor or is better being fast?) depending on the situation at hand.
One fact that is not in dispute is that the longer you hang around a
combat zone the more likely you are to get shot. So time is a factor.
If body armor gives you a feeling of security, are you more likely to
take your time or hurry your ass up? And will the armor slow you down
or help you get out faster?
Another undisputable fact is that good body armor is highly visible.
Will it draw unwanted attention? Will the combatants let you leave (or
stay, for that matter) with gear that they can use for themselves?
I'm starting to repeat myself so I won't make another list.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<6141d0b9-49b1-4f40...@v72g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
Of course it still won't help if you get shot in the extremities by a
stray or knocked flat by a direct hit to the armor. Then you need to
find your corpsman to medivac your busted ass..... oh, that's right,
body armor doesn't come with corpsmen, helicopters or medical
facitilities. Good thing all those wounded soldiers and Marines in
Iraq and Afghanistan had that kind of support. If not then the number
of fatalities would be much higher. But how much higher? Would it be
closer to the death toll in Vietnam? Well, they had medical support
systems, too. Same with WWII. I guess we're talking something closer
to WWI or the US Civil War...... better include a hacksaw in your
first-aid kit, huh?
Hey, here's a better idea: Get out -before- the shooting starts.
Karsten Kruse
> I'm starting to repeat myself so I won't make another list.
No need to, i agree. I think we are both on the same page, except that you
say body armor gives false security and therefore should not be used by
default. I say it gives you real security and should be used by default.
However, after considering the pros and cons in the specific situation we
probably would come to a similar decision.
It's just the risk compensation argument (false security through partial
security) that drives me nuts ;).
Karsten Kruse
> 350 rounds of 7.63x39, 30-06, or 308 will weigh around 20 lb all by
> its self.
And that's good for what? Why would i have 350 rounds of anything in my
rucksack at all?
I don't have to waste 10kg in my rucksack for ammo. Particularly because
you have to add the wheight of a rifle to it.
So it comes down to this: either you are a survivalist who thinks he is a
one man militia or you are not. I am not. It seems hal is. Hence the heavy
weaponry, body armor and tactical underwear. I wouldn't be surprised if
there was camo make-up in his BOB ;).
> Getting out of dodge requires you to pass threw dodge on the way out,
> so that requires one to know how to do so, and have the gear required
> for the job.
How likely is it that dodge is actually a heavy warzone with bullets all
around you? I know it's the american dream of heroism to shoot your way
through a problem, but what does it have to do with a likely scenario?
He should consider a pair of rubber boots instead, because it's more
likely to stand in the water during a flood than in a war zone. Heck, why
not tactical rubber boots ;).
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <1b94t5-...@nntp.tecneeq.de>:
>Frank Gilliland schrieb:
>
>> I'm starting to repeat myself so I won't make another list.
>
>No need to, i agree. I think we are both on the same page, except that you
>say body armor gives false security and therefore should not be used by
>default. I say it gives you real security and should be used by default.
>However, after considering the pros and cons in the specific situation we
>probably would come to a similar decision.
>
>It's just the risk compensation argument (false security through partial
>security) that drives me nuts ;).
Which is why I suggest that people carefully weigh the pros and cons,
and seriously consider better alternatives.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <v194t5-...@nntp.tecneeq.de>:
<snip>
>How likely is it that dodge is actually a heavy warzone with bullets all
>around you? I know it's the american dream of heroism to shoot your way
>through a problem, but what does it have to do with a likely scenario?
>
>He should consider a pair of rubber boots instead, because it's more
>likely to stand in the water during a flood than in a war zone. Heck, why
>not tactical rubber boots ;).
If Gummer had a pair maybe he wouldn't have froze his toenails off.
CanopyCo
> CanopyCo schrieb:
>
> > 350 rounds of 7.63x39, 30-06, or 308 will weigh around 20 lb all by
> > its self.
>
> And that's good for what? Why would i have 350 rounds of anything in my
> rucksack at all?
>
> I don't have to waste 10kg in my rucksack for ammo. Particularly because
> you have to add the wheight of a rifle to it.
>
> So it comes down to this: either you are a survivalist who thinks he is a
> one man militia or you are not. I am not. It seems hal is. Hence the heavy
> weaponry, body armor and tactical underwear. I wouldn't be surprised if
> there was camo make-up in his BOB ;).
>
> > Getting out of dodge requires you to pass threw dodge on the way out,
> > so that requires one to know how to do so, and have the gear required
> > for the job.
>
> How likely is it that dodge is actually a heavy warzone with bullets all
> around you? I know it's the american dream of heroism to shoot your way
> through a problem, but what does it have to do with a likely scenario?
>
Guess you do not know about the LA riot where they were bricking truck
driver in the street.
Likely never been on the north side of Tulsa Oklahoma after dark
either.
Lots of worse places then Tulsa around, and they don't stay put during
a fall of society.
But hay, if you want to fight off a mob, that is indiscriminately
killing, with your empty hands while wearing a swim suit, have at it.
Personally, I own a gun and can use it, so I will not leave it behind
when I need to cross a unknown area to go get something I need from
the other side of that area.
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:22:28 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <6141d0b9-49b1-4f40-9fc0-3160aaa50...@v72g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
> Of course it still won't help if you get shot in the extremities by a
> stray or knocked flat by a direct hit to the armor.
Sure it will.
It will stop all the shots that would have killed you outright,
allowing you to get to safety with an injury that will not kill you or
even stop you from leaving under your own power.
Let me guess, you are such a wimp that if you were knocked flat you
will never get up again?
Or are you super man and can get knocked flat by that same round
without armor and still get up.
BTW, why do you pack water when it will not stop you from starving to
death?
Why do you pack gloves in the winter when it will not keep you from
stubbing your toe?
Why do you pack any kind of hunting gear when it will not help you
farm?
Body armor stops bullets from penetrating the area that it covers.
And it covers the area that the majority of bullets hit.
In your view, there is no reason to hide behind a rock if you are shot
at because they can still move and get a shot, so you just stand up
and say "shoot me"?
>Then you need to
> find your corpsman to medivac your busted ass.
Apparently you are such a wimp that you can't drag your own busted ass
off if you get shot in the hand, or catch a shrapnel in most places
not covered by a vest, and you are such an ass that you will have no
one to help you.
I can believe that.
>.... oh, that's right,
> body armor doesn't come with corpsmen, helicopters or medical
> facitilities. Good thing all those wounded soldiers and Marines in
> Iraq and Afghanistan had that kind of support. If not then the number
> of fatalities would be much higher. But how much higher? Would it be
> closer to the death toll in Vietnam? Well, they had medical support
> systems, too. Same with WWII. I guess we're talking something closer
> to WWI or the US Civil War...... better include a hacksaw in your
> first-aid kit, huh?
>
> Hey, here's a better idea: Get out -before- the shooting starts.
Apparently you know nothing about the LA riots that had truck drivers
bricked it the streets?
Then again, you must be psychic to know every dangerous place without
ever being in them or knowing someone that has.
Tell me, what streets in Tulsa Oklahoma is safe to travel after dark,
and what ones are not.
Don't look it up on the web, because you can't when civilization
falls.
I have been considering body armor just so I can go hiking during deer
season when the weather it the best for hiking.
Some years I have considered it just to keep some jerk from shooting
me in my yard during deer season.
I have 4 holes in my trailer from asshole deer hunters right now.
Corked them with silicone.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<d909b539-0356-4c2c...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 22, 1:13 pm, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:22:28 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
>> wrote in
>> <6141d0b9-49b1-4f40-9fc0-3160aaa50...@v72g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course it still won't help if you get shot in the extremities by a
>> stray or knocked flat by a direct hit to the armor.
>
>Sure it will.
>It will stop all the shots that would have killed you outright,
>allowing you to get to safety with an injury that will not kill you or
>even stop you from leaving under your own power.
So you think you will be able to drag yourself to safety after getting
hit in the brain-pan or neck or femoral artery?
>Let me guess, you are such a wimp that if you were knocked flat you
>will never get up again?
It depends on how fast you get your breath back, or if you hit your
head on the way down, or if the BGs get another shot before you get
up.
>Or are you super man and can get knocked flat by that same round
>without armor and still get up.
No, I'm smart enough to get out of the combat zone before I have to
perform supernatural feats of endurance.
>BTW, why do you pack water when it will not stop you from starving to
>death?
>Why do you pack gloves in the winter when it will not keep you from
>stubbing your toe?
>Why do you pack any kind of hunting gear when it will not help you
>farm?
>
>Body armor stops bullets from penetrating the area that it covers.
>And it covers the area that the majority of bullets hit.
>
>In your view, there is no reason to hide behind a rock if you are shot
>at because they can still move and get a shot, so you just stand up
>and say "shoot me"?
No, I'm saying run like hell. Even better, get out -before- the
shooting starts. How many more times do I need to say that?
>>Then you need to
>> find your corpsman to medivac your busted ass.
>
>Apparently you are such a wimp that you can't drag your own busted ass
>off if you get shot in the hand, or catch a shrapnel in most places
>not covered by a vest, and you are such an ass that you will have no
>one to help you.
>
>I can believe that.
I hope so, because traumatic injury often induces shock that can be
more serious than the wound itself. If you want to take that chance
then be my guest -- it gives the BGs something to shoot at besides me.
>>.... oh, that's right,
>> body armor doesn't come with corpsmen, helicopters or medical
>> facitilities. Good thing all those wounded soldiers and Marines in
>> Iraq and Afghanistan had that kind of support. If not then the number
>> of fatalities would be much higher. But how much higher? Would it be
>> closer to the death toll in Vietnam? Well, they had medical support
>> systems, too. Same with WWII. I guess we're talking something closer
>> to WWI or the US Civil War...... better include a hacksaw in your
>> first-aid kit, huh?
>>
>> Hey, here's a better idea: Get out -before- the shooting starts.
>
>Apparently you know nothing about the LA riots that had truck drivers
>bricked it the streets?
I watched it happen on TV. And from what I saw, I don't think body
armor would have helped that guy. Maybe if he was smart he would have
done like the smart people and heeded the radio reports telling people
to avoid that area. But clearly there's no shortage of dumb people in
this world.
>Then again, you must be psychic to know every dangerous place without
>ever being in them or knowing someone that has.
It doesn't require psychic powers -- just turn on the scanner, CB or
BC radio. And when you hear about riots or gunfire on Chaos Street in
the Felony Flats district then drive the other direction. It ain't
rocket surgery.
>Tell me, what streets in Tulsa Oklahoma is safe to travel after dark,
>and what ones are not.
>Don't look it up on the web, because you can't when civilization
>falls.
No need -- I have no intention of ever going back to OK during good
times or bad.
>I have been considering body armor just so I can go hiking during deer
>season when the weather it the best for hiking.
>Some years I have considered it just to keep some jerk from shooting
>me in my yard during deer season.
>I have 4 holes in my trailer from asshole deer hunters right now.
>Corked them with silicone.
You remind me of the few remaining rich people in Beirut who, in
defiance of their own personal safety and common sense, felt it was
their god-given right to sit outside on their lawn furniture and have
champagne for breakfast in the middle of a civil fucking war. When
mortar rounds started coming in nearby they didn't run for cover, but
rather stood up and scowled as the rounds came closer. They eventually
died because of their arrogance and ignorance.
Maybe they should have carried caulking guns in their first-aid kits.
Karsten Kruse
>>> Getting out of dodge requires you to pass threw dodge on the way out,
>>> so that requires one to know how to do so, and have the gear required
>>> for the job.
>> How likely is it that dodge is actually a heavy warzone with bullets all
>> around you? I know it's the american dream of heroism to shoot your way
>> through a problem, but what does it have to do with a likely scenario?
> Guess you do not know about the LA riot where they were bricking truck
> driver in the street.
I have read about it, but that's it.
> Likely never been on the north side of Tulsa Oklahoma after dark
> either.
No, never.
> Lots of worse places then Tulsa around, and they don't stay put during
> a fall of society.
I think my chances where slim if i would find myself in such a dangerous
area when society collapses. Heavily armed and armored or not.
But the question is academic, because the risk is actually very low to get
stuck in Tulsa Oklahoma when TSHTF for me.
Very, very low.
See, i live in a town where the biggest crimes are stolen bikes or
youngsters turning their stereo too loud. If it gets rough around here i
am long gone. Maybe disguised as an old woman, but better that than being
in serious trouble.
> But hay, if you want to fight off a mob, that is indiscriminately
> killing, with your empty hands while wearing a swim suit, have at it.
No, i don't want to fight at all. Despite my military training i think my
chances are better if i avoid fights with mobs. However, if forced into
such situations i wouldn't mind body armor at all, even partial.
Maybe i just don't get the ,,out of dodge''? Isn't the point to avoid
danger and leave before the TSHTF?
CanopyCo
> CanopyCo schrieb:
>
> >>> Getting out of dodge requires you to pass threw dodge on the way out,
> >>> so that requires one to know how to do so, and have the gear required
> >>> for the job.
> >> How likely is it that dodge is actually a heavy warzone with bullets all
> >> around you? I know it's the american dream of heroism to shoot your way
> >> through a problem, but what does it have to do with a likely scenario?
> > Guess you do not know about the LA riot where they were bricking truck
> > driver in the street.
>
> I have read about it, but that's it.
>
Quite the thing.
Truck driver took an exit that put him right in the middle of it, and
he got bricked just because he was there.
Lots of destruction, and no one was held accountable as far as I know.
The driver likely did not even know that he was heading into trouble.
Lots of businesses survived only because the owner was on the roof
with a rifle stopping the destruction from being his shop.
I have been in the shoes of being from not only out of town but also
out of state and gotten off an interstate just to find out that the
exit I took put me in harms way.
No way I could have known in advance then, let lone if things were
suddenly going nuts.
> > Likely never been on the north side of Tulsa Oklahoma after dark
> > either.
>
> No, never.
>
There are streets there that if you stop at the light you will (see
will, not likely will) get car jacked.
And they do not look any different then the light before it or after
it.
Danger is where it is, and there is often no warning sign.
If you are in an area you know, during a time that has not changed,
then you are likely fine.
If you are in a strange town during a sudden social upheaval, then you
better be ready for trouble.
And if you are "getting out of dodge", then you are going into new
land where you do not know as much as you do about your homeland.
Here in my local hooterville (town of no more then 3000) a black man
did not see the sun set and live to see it rise again just a few years
ago (at least to me, as it was during my lifetime).
If you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all it can take
to get you in a real bind.
> > Lots of worse places then Tulsa around, and they don't stay put during
> > a fall of society.
>
> I think my chances where slim if i would find myself in such a dangerous
> area when society collapses. Heavily armed and armored or not.
>
> But the question is academic, because the risk is actually very low to get
> stuck in Tulsa Oklahoma when TSHTF for me.
>
> Very, very low.
>
> See, i live in a town where the biggest crimes are stolen bikes or
> youngsters turning their stereo too loud. If it gets rough around here i
> am long gone. Maybe disguised as an old woman, but better that than being
> in serious trouble.
>
Long gone?
How, flying?
If not, then you will pass threw unknown places no better and maybe
worse then Tulsa.
And that trip is exactly what I am talking about.
Tulsa is where I know about, but it is nothing near as bad as many
places I have seen.
Depending on your color, many of those worse places were just little
towns where there was normally no crime to speak of.
> > But hay, if you want to fight off a mob, that is indiscriminately
> > killing, with your empty hands while wearing a swim suit, have at it.
>
> No, i don't want to fight at all. Despite my military training i think my
> chances are better if i avoid fights with mobs.
Agreed, totally, completely.
But my problem is that I don't count on getting the choice.
>However, if forced into
> such situations i wouldn't mind body armor at all, even partial.
>
> Maybe i just don't get the ,,out of dodge''? Isn't the point to avoid
> danger and leave before the TSHTF?
>
The problem is that often there is no real warning as to where the
shit is going to sling once it hits the fan.
And there is no real way to assess the danger of unknown places that
you now have to pass threw as you leave Dodge.
I prefer to reason.
But I learned long ago that reasoning with a bully is useless, unless
the reasoning is threw the threat of violence to the bully.
Bullies love times of loss of law, as it allows them to be bullies
without as much threat of legal retaliation.
And there comes a time when you either run for ever or stop the bully
from running you off again, and again, and again.
Kind of like, one runs off from there home because there is a threat
of maybe a mob will possibly find your house in the woods before
things get better.
Then one is homeless, and living in the homeless shelters with the
other homeless.
That may be a tent city, or what ever.
A bully there comes up and wants your food and tent.
You run off again and now you don't have food or shelter.
Another bully sees you with nothing but the shirt on your back and
decides he wants to beat you up just because he thinks he can.
Now you are running off from that place, bruised and maybe dead,
leaving in a body bag.
But if you had stayed put in your home and defended it, you would
still have you home because the mob decided there was easier pickings
they your armed home and went elsewhere.
Just like in the LA riot.
The trucker was trying to get out of dodge without being armed and got
bricked.
The shop keepers that stayed on the roof of there shops with guns not
only kept there shops but also kept there health.
Mobs just don't really like getting shot at.
Just look at the history of mobs.
Go to shooting into them and they tend to disperse to quieter places.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
is in many places in Tulsa.
I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
being attacked.
That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
things go wrong.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>Now, don't get me wrong.
>I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
>is in many places in Tulsa.
>I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
>being attacked.
>That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
>But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
>things go wrong.
Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
segregation by moving to Anglotown.
Good luck with that.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<05fa6515-7e1b-45bc...@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>But hay, if you want to fight off a mob, that is indiscriminately
>killing, with your empty hands while wearing a swim suit, have at it.
I'd rather not engage the mob in the first place. That seems like the
more rational choice.
>Personally, I own a gun and can use it, so I will not leave it behind
>when I need to cross a unknown area to go get something I need from
>the other side of that area.
The obvious solution is not to cross an unknown area, but I guess that
takes all the fun out of it.
Chasseur
"Frank Gilliland" <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:e1v2g4pdsokg9dv9v...@4ax.com...
I fail to see how you can come to the conclusion that CanopyCo is racist.
Chasseur
Canada
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd-a977-c830a37ca...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Now, don't get me wrong.
> >I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
> >is in many places in Tulsa.
> >I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
> >being attacked.
> >That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
> >But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
> >things go wrong.
>
> Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
> segregation by moving to Anglotown.
>
> Good luck with that.
Well that was about the most idiot conclusion I ever seen.
I am a racist because I won't live some place with lots of crime, and
moved some place that is nearly crime free.
And then you wonder why you are treated like you are.
;-)
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:24:22 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <05fa6515-7e1b-45bc-9e28-f1107562a...@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
>
> <snip>
>
> >But hay, if you want to fight off a mob, that is indiscriminately
> >killing, with your empty hands while wearing a swim suit, have at it.
>
> I'd rather not engage the mob in the first place. That seems like the
> more rational choice.
>
> >Personally, I own a gun and can use it, so I will not leave it behind
> >when I need to cross a unknown area to go get something I need from
> >the other side of that area.
>
> The obvious solution is not to cross an unknown area, but I guess that
> takes all the fun out of it.
How you going to avoid crossing a unknown area when all your known
areas are being raided by the incoming problem?
You think you area is immune to all possible problems that you would
normally run from?
CanopyCo
> "Frank Gilliland" <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net> a écrit dans le message denews:e1v2g4pdsokg9dv9v...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> > wrote in
> > <9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd-a977-c830a37ca...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > <snip>
> > >Now, don't get me wrong.
> > >I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
> > >is in many places in Tulsa.
> > >I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
> > >being attacked.
> > >That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
> > >But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
> > >things go wrong.
>
> > Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
> > segregation by moving to Anglotown.
>
> > Good luck with that.
>
> I fail to see how you can come to the conclusion that CanopyCo is racist.
>
> Chasseur
>
I fail to see how he comes to most of his conclusions.
:-D
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<c6f9a575-f667-4f53...@t42g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 24, 3:41 am, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
>> wrote in
>> <9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd-a977-c830a37ca...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >Now, don't get me wrong.
>> >I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
>> >is in many places in Tulsa.
>> >I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
>> >being attacked.
>> >That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
>> >But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
>> >things go wrong.
>>
>> Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
>> segregation by moving to Anglotown.
>>
>> Good luck with that.
>
>Well that was about the most idiot conclusion I ever seen.
>I am a racist because I won't live some place with lots of crime, and
>moved some place that is nearly crime free.
Hmmmm....... I seem to recall you saying something to the effect of:
"Here in my local hooterville (town of no more then 3000) a black man
did not see the sun set and live to see it rise again just a few years
ago (at least to me, as it was during my lifetime)."
That doesn't sound "crime free" to me. But you continued with:
"If you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all it can
take to get you in a real bind."
Obviously race is your hangup because all you did was move to an area
where you are the criminal instead of the victim. Or, at least, that
was your intention. Too bad it won't work out that way, but that's
your problem.
>And then you wonder why you are treated like you are.
I don't wonder at all. I know exactly why some people react with
hostility to my comments.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<ba0739c1-61e2-4622...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 24, 3:44 am, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:24:22 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
>> wrote in
>> <05fa6515-7e1b-45bc-9e28-f1107562a...@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >But hay, if you want to fight off a mob, that is indiscriminately
>> >killing, with your empty hands while wearing a swim suit, have at it.
>>
>> I'd rather not engage the mob in the first place. That seems like the
>> more rational choice.
>>
>> >Personally, I own a gun and can use it, so I will not leave it behind
>> >when I need to cross a unknown area to go get something I need from
>> >the other side of that area.
>>
>> The obvious solution is not to cross an unknown area, but I guess that
>> takes all the fun out of it.
>
>How you going to avoid crossing a unknown area when all your known
>areas are being raided by the incoming problem?
By not being in an area from which you need to run.
>You think you area is immune to all possible problems that you would
>normally run from?
Hardly. Even though my area is relatively isolated economically, if a
race-based civil war breaks out my Burg is going to be on the front
lines -- located on the conservative side of Washington right next to
the border with uber-conservative Idaho. But the difference is that I
am constantly watching for warning signs, and am fully confident that
I'll be long gone before the first shots are fired, if any are fired
at all. THAT is what I've been preaching throughout this thread. In
fact, you have adopted that very same philosophy (in your own racist
way) by moving to Anglotown. So what's your problem with what I'm
saying? Or are you just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing?
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <2FlMk.2$u7...@wagner.videotron.net>:
I'm not suprised.
Chasseur
"Frank Gilliland" <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:ohk4g4lhk7jb1qacl...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:12:40 -0400, "Chasseur" <ycas...@zid.com>
> wrote in <2FlMk.2$u7...@wagner.videotron.net>:
>
> >
> >news:e1v2g4pdsokg9dv9v...@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com>
> >> wrote in
> >> <9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >> >Now, don't get me wrong.
> >> >I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
> >> >is in many places in Tulsa.
> >> >I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
> >> >being attacked.
> >> >That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
> >> >But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
> >> >things go wrong.
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
> >> segregation by moving to Anglotown.
> >>
> >> Good luck with that.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >I fail to see how you can come to the conclusion that CanopyCo is racist.
>
>
> I'm not suprised.
>
>
Pretty weak but not very surprising, short on arguments and fast with the
insults.
Chasseur
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:22:23 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <c6f9a575-f667-4f53-8189-4f029d74b...@t42g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 24, 3:41 am, Frank Gilliland <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net>
> >wrote:
> >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> >> wrote in
> >> <9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd-a977-c830a37ca...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >> >Now, don't get me wrong.
> >> >I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
> >> >is in many places in Tulsa.
> >> >I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
> >> >being attacked.
> >> >That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
> >> >But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
> >> >things go wrong.
>
> >> Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
> >> segregation by moving to Anglotown.
>
> >> Good luck with that.
>
> >Well that was about the most idiot conclusion I ever seen.
> >I am a racist because I won't live some place with lots of crime, and
> >moved some place that is nearly crime free.
>
> Hmmmm....... I seem to recall you saying something to the effect of:
>
> "Here in my local hooterville (town of no more then 3000) a black man
> did not see the sun set and live to see it rise again just a few years
> ago (at least to me, as it was during my lifetime)."
>
> That doesn't sound "crime free" to me. But you continued with:
>
Crime free so long as a black person stays out of town after dark.
Facts are facts, despite my beliefs.
> "If you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all it can
> take to get you in a real bind."
>
Facts are facts, despite my beliefs.
> Obviously race is your hangup because all you did was move to an area
> where you are the criminal instead of the victim. Or, at least, that
> was your intention. Too bad it won't work out that way, but that's
> your problem.
>
First off, I did not move here because or the local beliefs.
I moved here because the racial beliefs (other then the one against me
over me not being of the local tribe of Indians) did not affect me.
The fact that very few crimes (including racially motivated) occurred.
Try being white and hanging out on the North side of Tulsa.
As I said, if you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all
it can take to get you into a real bind.
And you don't know where they are unless you are on familiar ground.
In fact, some places will get you over the way you dress.
Biker bars don't much like suits, and suits don't much like bikers,
and some local places just don't like anyone from outside.
Facts are facts.
> >And then you wonder why you are treated like you are.
>
> I don't wonder at all. I know exactly why some people react with
> hostility to my comments.
Thus, you must enjoy it, or you would alter your methods to prevent
it.
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:24:46 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <ba0739c1-61e2-4622-b3ae-b84d7b65b...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 24, 3:44 am, Frank Gilliland <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net>
Like a race war is the only possible threat to that location.
No volcanos?
Get anything off Mt St. Helen?
No way a pandemic could be there?
No way the government could decide to make you a scapegoat due to you
posts?
Asteroid proof?
Forest fire?
Don't really know about your personal area, but expect that for your
area just like every other area, there are possible threats that can
force you to move.
Basically, what I am hearing from you is that armor is useless.
See the ..
Not useless to you but possible to others that live in more normal
conditions and don't think themselves psychic.
I consider armor to be useful, and it's usefulness changes based on
the situation.
Crash of society would put armor pretty high.
House flooded would put armor pretty low.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<6f1faadf-c4b2-4945...@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 24, 5:41 pm, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:22:23 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
>> wrote in
>> <c6f9a575-f667-4f53-8189-4f029d74b...@t42g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Oct 24, 3:41 am, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
Facts are facts but what you stated aren't facts -- they are your own
very narrow-minded opinions. And from the sound of it, they are
probably the product of watching way too much television.
>> >And then you wonder why you are treated like you are.
>>
>> I don't wonder at all. I know exactly why some people react with
>> hostility to my comments.
>
>Thus, you must enjoy it, or you would alter your methods to prevent
>it.
If that were true then you must enjoy being the object of my
criticism. Do you?
Chuck James
"robert bowman" <bow...@montana.com> wrote in message
news:6m7gpvF...@mid.individual.net...
> Chuck James wrote:
>
>> I ASSUME the sniper was using an AK-47 with FMJ, but not armor piercing
>> bullets, but the point is, the body armor CAN stop rifle rounds used by
>> modern military combatants.
>
> NIJ Level III and IV can, but that's getting into steel or ceramic plates
> and isn't exactly casual wear. The problem is that gear that is bulky,
> hot,
> and heavy tends to be in the closet when you really need it.
>
Nope, I wouldn't want to wear it all the time, but I also don't carry a
rifle all the time. If I thought I might need a rifle for protection, the
vest sure would be comforting.
Chuck James
"Frank Gilliland" <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net> wrote in message
news:dv0tf4hlh28fougus...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:56:22 -0500, "Chuck James"
> <C456...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> <ZSuLk.6082$YU2....@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>:
>
>>
>>"Frank Gilliland" <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net> wrote in message
>>news:khfpf4ttlvs65mq6q...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:22:44 -0600, h...@nospam.org wrote in
>>> <uktof4125mg8vb9e5...@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:23:17 -0700, Frank Gilliland
>>>><wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> And I suggest you read up on body armor. Recently
>>>>someone posted an article from someone in Argentina who went through
>>>>the economic meltdown and subsequent civil unrest there. Read what he
>>>>said about body armor. If you're in a critical life or death
>>>>situation and some shooting breaks out, you'ld wish you had some.
>>>
>>>
>>> Does Beirut count? Because if it does then I can guarantee that no
>>> body armor is going to stop a high-power rifle round, not even from an
>>> AK. It won't protect any areas that are left exposed, and I can
>>> personally attest to the fact that it won't protect your legs.
>>>
>>Modern Body Armor CAN stop rifle rounds, maybe not ALL rifle rounds, but
>>there is a popular video of a Corpsman in Iraq which was being filmed
>>while
>>a "sniper" shot him in the chest, from what looks to be just a couple
>>hundred yards or so.
>
>
> How can you tell from the video how far away the shot came from? or
> what kind of weapon fired the round? You can't.
>
>
>> The Corpsman went down, but managed to stagger back to
>>his feet and seek cover. They wounded and caught the enemy sniper , and
>>the
>>very same Corpsman which he shot, was the first responder to the sniper.
>>I ASSUME
>
>
> Well -there's- your problem.....
>
>
>> the sniper was using an AK-47 with FMJ, but not armor piercing
>>bullets, but the point is, the body armor CAN stop rifle rounds used by
>>would you give up any protection just because something doesn't protect
>>you
>>from everything?
>
>
>
> 1. Because it gives you a false sense of security;
> 3. Because you might be mistaken for a combatant;
> 4. Because someone might think you are wealthy and kidnap your family;
> 5. Because you are daring some Rambo-wannabe to take a head-shot;
> 6. Because it hinders movement and flexibility;
> 7. Because it is heavy (if it's worth a damn);
> 8. Because it blocks perspiration and you can overheat;
> 9. Because there are safer places to be than standing out in the open
> in the middle of a combat zone.
>
> Need more?
>
>
>>I don't have any body armor, but in a situation where there might be SOME
>>shooting, I would feel much safer with it on than with just my shirt
>>and/or
>>coat.
>
>
> That "feeling" of safety can get you killed. You can disagree with
> this if you want, but the fact is that you are more likely to take
> unnecessary risks with the armor than without it. Taking extra risks
> is not a very good survival plan, especially when the consequence of
> drawing the wrong card is death.
>
>
>>happens, using the best tools you have. The best tool you have is your
>>brain, but other tools come in mighty handy too.
>
>
> And some can be more of a liability than an asset. I'm not saying that
> you shouldn't buy a bullet-proof vest, just that you should weigh the
> pros and cons very carefully and evaluate all the alternatives.
>
>
I'm saying that additional protection is a good thing. When I drive a
motorcycle, I always wear a helmet; when I drive a car, I always wear a seat
belt, because it offers me more protection than not having it. I don't care
if it ...
1. gives me a false sense of security;
2. hinders movement and flexibility;
3. is heavy (if it's worth a damn);
4. wrinkles my shirt and causes perspiration.
5. is safer than riding a motorcycle on a busy highway.
Chuck James
"Frank Gilliland" <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> wrote in message
news:scquf4hrcrre52i4b...@4ax.com...
>>the following rifle rounds that normally fall into the Level IV
>>category and all lesser threats.
>>
>>
>>7.62 x 39 mm 122 GR, steel case mild steel core: 2300 - 2400 fps.
>>5.56 x 45 mm 65 GR, M855 (SS109 Green tip): 3200 - 3300 fps.
>>the MIL-P-46593A fragmentation requirements around the high power
>>rifle defeating areas.
>
>
> Of course it still won't help if you get shot in the extremities by a
> stray or knocked flat by a direct hit to the armor. Then you need to
> find your corpsman to medivac your busted ass..... oh, that's right,
> body armor doesn't come with corpsmen, helicopters or medical
> facitilities. Good thing all those wounded soldiers and Marines in
> Iraq and Afghanistan had that kind of support. If not then the number
> of fatalities would be much higher. But how much higher? Would it be
> closer to the death toll in Vietnam? Well, they had medical support
> systems, too. Same with WWII. I guess we're talking something closer
> to WWI or the US Civil War...... better include a hacksaw in your
> first-aid kit, huh?
>
> Hey, here's a better idea: Get out -before- the shooting starts.
>
trouble/rioting/shooting whatever, then the sensible thing to do is to be
somewhere else. But just sometimes unexpected things happen, and you just
happen to be in the middle of it. Rodney King riots come to mind right now,
but there a host of other unexpected surprises for which bugging out might
not be the first response. Sometimes shelter in place seems like the best
course of action, but situations change and by the time you decide it might
be better to bug out, it might already be too late.
I guess I just don't understand why you would not want to take advantage of
any safety precautions, if they are available. I'm pretty sure the soldiers
in Iraq don't WANT to be in a firefight, and would much rather be somewhere
else when the trouble starts, but that doesn't mean they don't take
advantage of body armor, just in case.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<3e62e8de-ccf5-47c5...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 24, 5:54 pm, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
>wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:24:46 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
>> wrote in
>> <ba0739c1-61e2-4622-b3ae-b84d7b65b...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Oct 24, 3:44 am, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
Yep. Three of them.
>Get anything off Mt St. Helen?
Yep. Still got several jars of ash somewhere in the garage.
>No way a pandemic could be there?
Just as vulnerable as any other place on Earth. But if the spread is
slow enough then this area is geographically isolated enough that it
could be quarantined easier than most other places.
>No way the government could decide to make you a scapegoat due to you
>posts?
Nope. I have an "ACE" up my sleeve (you don't know what that means but
they do).
>Asteroid proof?
Unless it's a direct hit, I'm in a pretty good position here. If a big
one hits the Pacific then I'm well shielded from the tsunami. The
prevailing winds are from the West and the Cascades and desert filter
the air pretty well. And we are no strangers to cold weather.
>Forest fire?
Get them every year.
>Don't really know about your personal area, but expect that for your
>area just like every other area, there are possible threats that can
>force you to move.
Of course.
>Basically, what I am hearing from you is that armor is useless.
Gee, what gave you -that- idea? Could it be because that's what I've
been saying in almost every post in this thread? Christ......
>See the ..
>Not useless to you but possible to others that live in more normal
>conditions and don't think themselves psychic.
No need for psychic powers -- just a clear head and open eyes.
Think of it this way: Your brain is both your weapon and your armor,
and your equipment is just a collection of tools. You should always
use the right tool for the job. If you are a cop or a soldier then
body armor is a very useful tool. But it's the -wrong- tool for a
civilian trying to survive in a war zone for the simple reason that
civilians don't survive very long in a war zone -regardless- of what
tools they have.
Tools...... Let's say that body armor is like a shovel. The shovel is
one of the most useful tools for defending against a forest fire. It's
effective because there are hundreds of firefighters with hundreds of
shovels digging firebreaks and putting out spot fires. But do you
actually think that if you have a shovel then you, by yourself, would
be able to keep a raging forest fire from burning down your house? Of
course not. Even if you're foolish enough to try, don't be suprised if
the firefighters confiscate your shovel for their own use.
How can I make this simple enough for you to understand?
Frank Gilliland
<C456...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
<QvMMk.5959$be....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>:
Which is safer: Riding a motorcycle with a helmet or not riding a
motorcycle at all?
And why is this such a difficult concept? Is it because people refuse
to accept the fact that "riding motorcycles" in the middle of a war
zone is a really bad idea? What part of being dead don't people
understand?
Frank Gilliland
<C456...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
<i5NMk.3501$W06...@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>:
<snip>
>> Hey, here's a better idea: Get out -before- the shooting starts.
>>
>I don't have a crystal ball. Sure if you KNOW there's going to be
>trouble/rioting/shooting whatever, then the sensible thing to do is to be
>somewhere else.
-=-=-THANK YOU!!!-=-=-
Sheesh....... was that so hard?
Gunner Asch
Anyone who doesnt agree with Frank the Weeny, is a racist, didnt you
know?
Gunner
Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
Gunner Asch
>I have been in the shoes of being from not only out of town but also
>out of state and gotten off an interstate just to find out that the
>exit I took put me in harms way.
I took the wrong exit ramp in Watts once...quickly surrounded by black
gang bangers. I had my .45 in my lap..but got out of a bad situation
by telling them that I was there to stop a cable TV substation from
going out, and wiping out all the cable tv in the ;hood for the next 2
weeks.
The quickly gave me directions to the on ramp back to the freeway..as
I was going for a new Humbolt Drive Unit that would save the
substation.
Im glad I didnt have to kill them all, but was quite prepared to do so
if they had pushed it.
Frank Gilliland
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in
<flh7g4p187rpvpi35...@4ax.com>:
>On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:12:40 -0400, "Chasseur" <ycas...@zid.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Frank Gilliland" <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net> a écrit dans le message de
>>news:e1v2g4pdsokg9dv9v...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk...@aol.com>
>>> wrote in
>>> <9dab7bab-1eaa-41bd...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> >Now, don't get me wrong.
>>> >I refuse to live in the projects because there is known violence, as
>>> >is in many places in Tulsa.
>>> >I see no profit in living someplace that I constantly have to fear
>>> >being attacked.
>>> >That is why I bought land in my little hooterville.
>>> >But I don't discount the ability of danger to come to me even here if
>>> >things go wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, I get it...... you're a racist and your survival plan is voluntary
>>> segregation by moving to Anglotown.
>>>
>>> Good luck with that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>I fail to see how you can come to the conclusion that CanopyCo is racist.
>>
>>Chasseur
>>Canada
>>
>Anyone who doesnt agree with Frank the Weeny, is a racist, didnt you
>know?
Melted any M16 handguards lately?
Karsten Kruse
> Im glad I didnt have to kill them all, but was quite prepared to do so
> if they had pushed it.
Awesome!
http://onetbsd.de/pics/awesome.jpg
Karsten
--
,,Slatterns! Trollops! Women should be obedient baby machines!''
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
>> Im glad I didnt have to kill them all, but was quite prepared to do so
>> if they had pushed it.
>
>Awesome!
>
>http://onetbsd.de/pics/awesome.jpg
>
>Karsten
Karsten karsten karsten....our pet squarehead.
Ive commented before, when you went stupid on such things, that you
dont know anything about me, yet you blither like you live in the
basement
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Gunner
Son...Ive been a competition shooter for a bit over 30 yrs. I spent 3
yrs taking long walks in the woods, meeting interesting people, and
killing them 1971-1973, Ive been a deputy sheriff
I teach combat handgun, combat rifle and combat shotgun, and to a very
small group of people...."extreme range personel interdiction"
I was a charter member of the Professional Archers Accosiation many
years ago..having been something of a known name in archery circles,
having grown up personal friends with Jim Jefferies, Fred Bear, Owens,
etc etc.
I have a modest wall of trophys, plaques, etc...dust collectors that
Ive won in shooting competition over the years in all three weapons.
Most of the archery trophies got tossed years ago, though Ive a few
animal trophies hanging on the walls here and there.
I practice Jodo, Kendo, and Escrima. and am working on Canemasters
technique.
It helps keep the old busted bones from locking up...when I was young,
I rodeo'd, a member of the PBR...Professional Bull Riders
Association..and broncs...earned a few brusted bones to go with the
bullet holes, schrapnel scars etc etc.
Im old, Im tired and Im not in great shape, Ive got a heart issue, a
bit of arthritus, COPD, two back surgeries behind me, Some mornings
its a screaming red haze trying to get out of bed, everything hurts.
...but Ive trained (and actually survived) multiple
targets/assailents, armed with a variety of weapons, over the years.
Ive been shot, stabbed, bayoneted, blown up, bucked off, run over,
thiumped on, clubbed, smashed bashed and generally been abused...but
while Im not as fast as I used to be...I can still punch a .45 round
into multiple targets while keeping at least 2 pieces of brass in the
air at the same time I shot in a combat match Sept 7th of this
year..they put me in with the active military and active police
shooters and I took 1st place. Got yet another dust collector to try
to find a place for. 5 falling plates at 15 yrds in 2.01 seconds.
Slow as molasses for a hot shooter..slow as hell for me in my
prime...but still faster than 99.999 people on the street And that
was not having competed in several years, cold off the street, with my
daily gun and old ammo grabbed out of the junk self. I ran the course
again with a .41 Magnum, full house loads..and my best time was 2.51
seconds. Shrug...one doesnt think..one simply does..muscle memory
does the rest. After shooting at least 1 million rounds out of
handguns alone over the past 30 yrs....muscle memory is pretty well
trained
Snuffing a group of over confident dumbshit knuckleheads clustered
together making threatening noises and maybe armed with a .38 and a
9mm, really isnt that big a deal, particularly when they think they
are terrorizing the cable tv guy and his service truck. What would
have killed them? Bad judgement.
Seems to be a lot of that going around these days.
Now I figure you are at most, 24 yrs old, and havent seen much of the
world, least of all the gritty side, or have ever been on the sharp
end of the stick, because your naivate shines like a Xenon flood lamp.
As I said..you know fuck all about me, so when you pull that kind of
bullshit, I can only roll my eyes at your buffoonery, chuckle a bit
and type a response (or not)
Feel free to browse my webpages
http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/sets/
While it wont teach you who I am...it might give you some insight as
to whether or not I can walk the walk...shrug...or not. Frankly..I
believe you are too young and too ignorant to understand what Im
showing you...though Ill bet anothe old guy (Ill be 55 in November)
would be able to form a pretty accurate opinion just from the links I
provided. Your world view isnt wide enough..and I doubt it ever will
be.
I also doubt you ever heard of the 1st Battalion Rhodesian Light
Infantry....shrug
Now Im going out to the shop and weld up a motorcycle work stand so I
can start restoring the 1961 Royal Enfield motorcycle I dragged home
this weekend, but Ive got to put the fairing back on the BMW R90/6
first...damnit...so much to do, so little time....sigh.
Gunner
Frank Gilliland
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in
<b3i9g41mm9ggjls2m...@4ax.com>:
Wow..... that's impressive! A tough-guy wannabe with dysfuntional
narcissism. Hemmingway would be proud! Although I should mention that
your Marlboro Man costume looks really gay...... like you're posing
for a Village People audition. Maybe if you threw some dirt on it? or
sat on a horse?
Karsten Kruse
>>> Im glad I didnt have to kill them all, but was quite prepared to do so
>>> if they had pushed it.
>> Awesome!
>> http://onetbsd.de/pics/awesome.jpg
> Ive commented before, when you went stupid on such things, that you
> dont know anything about me, yet you blither like you live in the
> basement
I think you highly missinterpreted the message of the picture: Look! I'm
awesome! LOOK AT ME! LOOK! I'M AWESOME!
> http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Gunner
Proves my point. Let's see how awesome you really are:
> Son...Ive been a competition shooter for a bit over 30 yrs. I spent 3
> yrs taking long walks in the woods, meeting interesting people, and
> killing them 1971-1973, Ive been a deputy sheriff
Awsomeness: 12%
> I teach combat handgun, combat rifle and combat shotgun, and to a very
> small group of people...."extreme range personel interdiction"
Awesomeness: 34%
> I was a charter member of the Professional Archers Accosiation many
> years ago..having been something of a known name in archery circles,
> having grown up personal friends with Jim Jefferies, Fred Bear, Owens,
> etc etc.
Awesomeness: 38%
> I have a modest wall of trophys, plaques, etc...dust collectors that
> Ive won in shooting competition over the years in all three weapons.
> Most of the archery trophies got tossed years ago, though Ive a few
> animal trophies hanging on the walls here and there.
Awesomeness: 47%
> I practice Jodo, Kendo, and Escrima. and am working on Canemasters
> technique.
Awesomeness: 62%
> It helps keep the old busted bones from locking up...when I was young,
> I rodeo'd, a member of the PBR...Professional Bull Riders
> Association..and broncs...earned a few brusted bones to go with the
> bullet holes, schrapnel scars etc etc.
Awesomeness: 74%
> Im old, Im tired and Im not in great shape, Ive got a heart issue, a
> bit of arthritus, COPD, two back surgeries behind me, Some mornings
> its a screaming red haze trying to get out of bed, everything hurts.
Awesomeness: 61%
> ...but Ive trained (and actually survived) multiple
> targets/assailents, armed with a variety of weapons, over the years.
Awesomeness: 75%
> Ive been shot, stabbed, bayoneted, blown up, bucked off, run over,
> thiumped on, clubbed, smashed bashed and generally been abused...but
> while Im not as fast as I used to be...I can still punch a .45 round
> into multiple targets while keeping at least 2 pieces of brass in the
> air at the same time
Awesomeness: 82%
> I shot in a combat match Sept 7th of this
> year..they put me in with the active military and active police
> shooters and I took 1st place. Got yet another dust collector to try
> to find a place for. 5 falling plates at 15 yrds in 2.01 seconds.
Awesomeness: 96%
> Snuffing a group of over confident dumbshit knuckleheads clustered
> together making threatening noises and maybe armed with a .38 and a
> 9mm, really isnt that big a deal,
Awesomeness: 102%
> Feel free to browse my webpages
> http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner
> http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gunnerasch/sets/
Awesomeness: 105%
> Now Im going out to the shop and weld up a motorcycle work stand so I
> can start restoring the 1961 Royal Enfield motorcycle I dragged home
> this weekend, but Ive got to put the fairing back on the BMW R90/6
> first
Awesomeness: 107%
You, sire, are indeed 107% percent pure awesomeness. Good for you.
Now please stop shouting ,,LOOK! I'M AWESOME'' before someone calls you an
attention whore. Nobody doubts that you have some skills, but your
marlboro-man i'll-snuff-em-all attitude is clearly over the line.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in <k1dft5-...@nntp.tecneeq.de>:
<snip>
>Awesomeness: 107%
>
>You, sire, are indeed 107% percent pure awesomeness. Good for you.
You forgot to consider his behemouth schlong and his greatest
invention: Sticky Teflon. That should bump him up to at least 112%.
>Now please stop shouting ,,LOOK! I'M AWESOME'' before someone calls you an
>attention whore. Nobody doubts that you have some skills, but your
>marlboro-man i'll-snuff-em-all attitude is clearly over the line.
Maybe in more conservative states but not in California (aka, the
Granola state -- full of fruits, flakes and nuts).
Bob Brock
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>
><snipped a fuckload of crap>
>Doesn't matter,
>it's all concocted bullshit.
As anyone who has read his posts would already know.
Gunner Asch
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>
><snipped a fuckload of crap>
>Doesn't matter,
>it's all concocted bullshit.
Sure it is. I copied it off a cereal box.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
>>>> Im glad I didnt have to kill them all, but was quite prepared to do so
>>>> if they had pushed it.
>
>>> Awesome!
>
>>> http://onetbsd.de/pics/awesome.jpg
>
>> Ive commented before, when you went stupid on such things, that you
>> dont know anything about me, yet you blither like you live in the
>> basement
>
>I think you highly missinterpreted the message of the picture: Look! I'm
>awesome! LOOK AT ME! LOOK! I'M AWESOME!
Sometimes Karsten...a cigar is simply a cigar. I dont feel awesome.
Im just me. I walk, talk shit, put my pants on one leg at a time.
I sneeze, hack up green loogies once in a while and occasionally blip
off a creeper fart..silent but deadly.
I cant fuck all night anymore, though I can still make up for it with
quality, based on recent comments from my lady friends.
Karsten...when someone tells you something plainly..its hardly chest
breating, but matter of fact.
Something you seem to be forgetting when you deal with the old time
posters on the survivalism groups. Most of them CAN walk the walk, and
dont consider it to be much more than business as usual.
Now Im a well known, little lovable harmless fuzzball, and have no
need to brag about much of anything. Either I can do something, or
not, and Ill tell you if I can, or cannot.
And Karsten...changing the crosspost bit to alt.overfifty only made
you look really stupid. More than usual in fact.
Shrug
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
son...I guess eurotrash simply isnt used to plain talking folks. You
really need to come out to the American West for a few years, and
unlearn what you think you know about folks.
evidently you never learned to differentiate between bragadacio, and
simply declarative statements..and consider everything you cannot
comprehend doing to be bragadacio. Grow up Karsten...get out and see
a bit of the world. It might make you appear less stupid and tiny.
Shrug...just how old are you anyways?
anyone who would change the reply to newsgroup to alt.fiftyplus...has
to be under 16 yrs old, Eurotrash, or both.
I cannot fathom why you would be so stupid to do that...blink blink...
Frank Gilliland
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in
<jrlag4lmnb5qau8cc...@4ax.com>:
<snip>
>evidently you never learned to differentiate between bragadacio, and
>simply declarative statements..and consider everything you cannot
>comprehend doing to be bragadacio. Grow up Karsten...
Grow up yourself, old man. At some point Karsten will move on with his
development and leave this group. And I'm sure you and several others
will cheer when I stop posting myself (very soon). But you and your
emotionally stunted id are going to be here for many, many years to
come, thumping your chest with the same old bullshit stories, whining
about your medical ills, and bragging about your conservative values
while practicing the exact opposite. Just like Glickman you'll be
posting right up until your last days, all shriveled up into a bitter
and pathetic old man who refuses to enjoy his last hours of life for
fear of losing face with the only people who will talk with him but
really don't give a shit. Poetic justice if you ask me.
Anyway, have a nice day!
Karsten Kruse
> Shrug...just how old are you anyways?
35. Vescere bracis meis.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
>> Shrug...just how old are you anyways?
>
>35. Vescere bracis meis.
I didnt ask about your IQ, but your actual age.
Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis
exponebantur ad necem
>
>Karsten
Gunner Asch
>Frank Gilliland wrote:
>>But you and your
>>emotionally stunted id are going to be here for many, many years to
>>come, thumping your chest with the same old bullshit stories, whining
>>about your medical ills, and bragging about your conservative values
>>while practicing the exact opposite.
>
>I wouldn't sign on to "many, many years" describing his life expectancy,
>as the chest thumping behavior is characteristically seen in terminal
>pulmonary conditions.
>Plus being a nicotine addicted nitwit has added too many hygiene
>shortfalls for him to become much older, and not having attained much
>wisdom so far is very unlikely to ever realize it.
>Maybe that snaggle tooth fool should also have the remaining rotten
>teeth removed to eliminate those underlying infections that are a major
>compromise in his losing battle even more so.
Tu plenus sterco es Saltatrix tonsa
swaney3
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
Good Thinking :)
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:42:07 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <3e62e8de-ccf5-47c5-bed2-021812b6f...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
> No need for psychic powers -- just a clear head and open eyes.
>
> Think of it this way: Your brain is both your weapon and your armor,
> and your equipment is just a collection of tools. You should always
> use the right tool for the job. If you are a cop or a soldier then
> body armor is a very useful tool. But it's the -wrong- tool for a
> civilian trying to survive in a war zone for the simple reason that
> civilians don't survive very long in a war zone -regardless- of what
> tools they have.
>
War zone as in a section of an unknown town that does not like your
type?
Or are you only talking about a true war zone, where you see on the
news that Russia is invading your country from the west and you can
move east and stay ahead of the front?
Groups of humans that want to kill you are not only in true wars.
They even exist here, in this little group.
And clearly you have not been able to avoid them.
;-)
> Tools...... Let's say that body armor is like a shovel. The shovel is
> one of the most useful tools for defending against a forest fire. It's
> effective because there are hundreds of firefighters with hundreds of
> shovels digging firebreaks and putting out spot fires. But do you
> actually think that if you have a shovel then you, by yourself, would
> be able to keep a raging forest fire from burning down your house? Of
> course not. Even if you're foolish enough to try, don't be suprised if
> the firefighters confiscate your shovel for their own use.
>
Actually, I would take my shovel and dig me a hole that I could cover
with a tarp or plywood or something, then cover that with dirt, and
possible survive the fire as it passes over me.
Without the shovel, I not only would loose my house, but I to would
die.
> How can I make this simple enough for you to understand?
I do understand, thus the problem.
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:31:15 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <6f1faadf-c4b2-4945-aab9-2a73b11da...@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
> >As I said, if you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all
> >it can take to get you into a real bind.
> >And you don't know where they are unless you are on familiar ground.
> >In fact, some places will get you over the way you dress.
> >Biker bars don't much like suits, and suits don't much like bikers,
> >and some local places just don't like anyone from outside.
>
> >Facts are facts.
>
> Facts are facts but what you stated aren't facts -- they are your own
> very narrow-minded opinions. And from the sound of it, they are
> probably the product of watching way too much television.
>
What facts are they?
The ones that I did not get right.
The ones that you are disputing are?
That being the wrong color will get you in a bind in some locations?
Just dressing wrong will get you in the same bind in some locations?
Just being an outsider will get you in a bind in some locations?
Go put on your cutest dress, then go down to any red neck homophobic
bar and ask someone to dance.
It's safe, according to you.
In WY a kid got hung on a fence over less then that.
Go to the black district to a bar.
One that has not one lighter colored face in it other then yours (I
presume that you are light skinned).
Then start talking about niggers and let me know how it works out for
you.
Hell, just hang out and try to pick up a chick or just get a drink and
let me know how the night ended for you.
CanopyCo
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 05:57:15 +0100, Karsten Kruse <tecn...@tecneeq.de>
> wrote:
>
> >Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
> >> Im glad I didnt have to kill them all, but was quite prepared to do so
> >> if they had pushed it.
>
> >Awesome!
>
> >http://onetbsd.de/pics/awesome.jpg
>
> >Karsten
>
> Karsten karsten karsten....our pet squarehead.
>
> Ive commented before, when you went stupid on such things, that you
> dont know anything about me, yet you blither like you live in the
> basement
>
I'm not disputing you, but I am going to post some suggestions that
would aid in your statements about yourself.
> http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Gunner
>
> Son...Ive been a competition shooter for a bit over 30 yrs.
Photographs of ribbons / trophies / anything that would show that you
placed?
I know a guy that ran the marathon for 30 years and never not one time
did he place above dead last.
>I spent 3
> yrs taking long walks in the woods, meeting interesting people, and
> killing them 1971-1973,
Lots of vets.
Lots of want to be vets as well.
Many are not much of a person, many are killing machines.
Posting a scan of your DD214 would at least remove the statements that
you did not serve.
Any documentation that showed your sniper training on anything on your
postings would also help.
>Ive been a deputy sheriff.
That means nothing in this area, as most any jerk can be a deputy
around here.
Just depends on what looser got elected as sherif.
The one we got now is a prime example of that.
>
> I teach combat handgun, combat rifle and combat shotgun, and to a very
> small group of people...."extreme range personel interdiction"
>
So do I, but all that meant was that I knew more then the guy I
taught.
I haven't personally taken any classes myself, but read some books and
knew some things that I could pass down.
> I was a charter member of the Professional Archers Accosiation many
> years ago..having been something of a known name in archery circles,
> having grown up personal friends with Jim Jefferies, Fred Bear, Owens,
> etc etc.
>
Name dropping is meaningless, unless you can get them to say it.
I can say that I am close friends with any famous person that I want
to, despite the fact that I don't know any of them.
And there is a guy in Oklahoma that has a TV show (Outdoor Oklahoma I
think, but don't remember).
He is crippled from birth, with a birth defect that makes the use of
his hands and arms impossible in a hunting environment.
He is the host of a hunting / fishing / sport show, and likely a
charter member of a club of two, but can't do any of it himself.
All he can do is watch.
> I have a modest wall of trophys, plaques, etc...dust collectors that
> Ive won in shooting competition over the years in all three weapons.
Photographs or scans would help this allot, as well as provide backing
evidence to many other areas.
> Most of the archery trophies got tossed years ago, though Ive a few
> animal trophies hanging on the walls here and there.
>
Animal trophies can be bought at yard sales, thus the need for
photographs of awards with your name on them.
> I practice Jodo, Kendo, and Escrima. and am working on Canemasters
> technique.
>
Lots of people do this just for exercise, but have no real
understanding of battle.
A mpg of one of your matches would help.
Even practice matches.
> It helps keep the old busted bones from locking up...when I was young,
> I rodeo'd, a member of the PBR...Professional Bull Riders
> Association..and broncs...earned a few brusted bones to go with the
> bullet holes, schrapnel scars etc etc.
>
Lots of people join clubs, and around here lots of them ride bulls.
Any thing showing how long you stayed on it's back?
> Im old, Im tired and Im not in great shape, Ive got a heart issue, a
> bit of arthritus, COPD, two back surgeries behind me, Some mornings
> its a screaming red haze trying to get out of bed, everything hurts.
> ...but Ive trained (and actually survived) multiple
> targets/assailents, armed with a variety of weapons, over the years.
> Ive been shot, stabbed, bayoneted, blown up, bucked off, run over,
> thiumped on, clubbed, smashed bashed and generally been abused...but
> while Im not as fast as I used to be...I can still punch a .45 round
> into multiple targets while keeping at least 2 pieces of brass in the
> air at the same time I shot in a combat match Sept 7th of this
> year..they put me in with the active military and active police
> shooters and I took 1st place. Got yet another dust collector to try
> to find a place for. 5 falling plates at 15 yrds in 2.01 seconds.
Likely they have a web cite that posted the winners and there times,
as well as describing the competition.
That would help show them that it was not just a bunch of drunks out
back with an egg timer, and was in fact a real competition.
> Slow as molasses for a hot shooter..slow as hell for me in my
> prime...but still faster than 99.999 people on the street And that
> was not having competed in several years, cold off the street, with my
> daily gun and old ammo grabbed out of the junk self. I ran the course
> again with a .41 Magnum, full house loads..and my best time was 2.51
> seconds. Shrug...one doesnt think..one simply does..muscle memory
> does the rest. After shooting at least 1 million rounds out of
> handguns alone over the past 30 yrs....muscle memory is pretty well
> trained
>
> Snuffing a group of over confident dumbshit knuckleheads clustered
> together making threatening noises and maybe armed with a .38 and a
> 9mm, really isnt that big a deal, particularly when they think they
> are terrorizing the cable tv guy and his service truck. What would
> have killed them? Bad judgement.
> Seems to be a lot of that going around these days.
>
The thing I always worry about in those situations it the guy I don't
see that is posted with an AK for just such situations.
Here in the projects where they have taken over, that is not really
that unusual.
Hope my post helps you in convincing others about yourself.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<ce254017-54ac-4984...@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 25, 4:30 pm, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:31:15 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
>> wrote in
>> <6f1faadf-c4b2-4945-aab9-2a73b11da...@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>
>> >As I said, if you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all
>> >it can take to get you into a real bind.
>> >And you don't know where they are unless you are on familiar ground.
>> >In fact, some places will get you over the way you dress.
>> >Biker bars don't much like suits, and suits don't much like bikers,
>> >and some local places just don't like anyone from outside.
>>
>> >Facts are facts.
>>
>> Facts are facts but what you stated aren't facts -- they are your own
>> very narrow-minded opinions. And from the sound of it, they are
>> probably the product of watching way too much television.
>>
>
>What facts are they?
>The ones that I did not get right.
>The ones that you are disputing are?
>
>That being the wrong color will get you in a bind in some locations?
Where? I'm white and I've walked through some of the blackest areas of
this country without a problem. If a white person goes there with an
-attitude-, yeah, you're going to have problems. But the rule is
'don't start none, won't be none'.
>Just dressing wrong will get you in the same bind in some locations?
Like wearing a suit in a biker bar? BTDT. Matter of fact, one of my
sisters married a full-fledged "biker", gang and all, about 15 years
ago. Same rule applies.
>Just being an outsider will get you in a bind in some locations?
You don't get it. In the -real- world (i.e, not television) you can go
just about anywhere and do just about anything you want. But if you
show an attitude or put on a fake persona then get ready for trouble.
OTOH, if you are genuine and honest then you wont have any problems
whatsoever (unless you're honestly hostile or sincerely racist). Heck,
I was in a hard-core redneck bar in Oregon a long time ago and, in the
middle of a discussion about music, declared that I don't like Hank
Williams Jr., which I don't. Now -that- was like the movies, when the
jukebox shuts off and the room goes quiet. But you stick to your guns
like I did and you will find that even such a blasphemous declaration
will actually earn you respect -- because you were honest and didn't
weasel your way out of what you said. It also helped to point out that
I like Hank Sr, which I do.
Maybe you get your preconceived notions about people from television
and maybe not, but they are wrong. Facts are facts, and the fact is
that people are people regardless of who you are where you are. You
respect them and they will respect you. Be an ass and get it kicked.
It's that simple.
>Go put on your cutest dress, then go down to any red neck homophobic
>bar and ask someone to dance.
>It's safe, according to you.
>In WY a kid got hung on a fence over less then that.
>
>>Go to the black district to a bar.
>One that has not one lighter colored face in it other then yours (I
>presume that you are light skinned).
>Then start talking about niggers and let me know how it works out for
>you.
>Hell, just hang out and try to pick up a chick or just get a drink and
>let me know how the night ended for you.
Are you saying that it's your right to poke people with a stick?
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<cd91bd38-a4f0-4752...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
>>I spent 3
>> yrs taking long walks in the woods, meeting interesting people, and
>> killing them 1971-1973,
>
>Lots of vets.
>Lots of want to be vets as well.
>Many are not much of a person, many are killing machines.
>Posting a scan of your DD214 would at least remove the statements that
>you did not serve.
>Any documentation that showed your sniper training on anything on your
>postings would also help.
Never gonna happen. Either they don't exist or they show he was
something along the lines of a sonar tech. I'm betting on the former,
considering his story about melted M16 handguards (which don't melt),
his ignorance about flash supressors, etc, etc.
Frank Gilliland
wrote in
<8ed48efe-8c40-42a2...@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com>:
>On Oct 25, 5:54 pm, Frank Gilliland <wīrenut@NOSPAMīcehouse.net>
Feel free to make up all the excuses you want -- I gave you the facts
and my most sincere recommendation based on 1st-hand observation and
experience. Take it or leave it.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>>
>> Ive commented before, when you went stupid on such things, that you
>> dont know anything about me, yet you blither like you live in the
>> basement
>>
>
>I'm not disputing you, but I am going to post some suggestions that
>would aid in your statements about yourself.
>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Gunner
>>
>> Son...Ive been a competition shooter for a bit over 30 yrs.
>
>Photographs of ribbons / trophies / anything that would show that you
>placed?
>I know a guy that ran the marathon for 30 years and never not one time
>did he place above dead last.
Oh...like this?
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/CanopyLook
Best I could do in 4 minutes
Frankly son...I dont care if anyone on usenet believes me or not.
There are enough folks who have been to the homestead have met me or
have been friends with me for yesrs...people who I actually care
about...that know me well.
Hell..as I recall..you were over to the house some years ago, and
commented on my trophy wall.....and the "several" firearms I showed
you.
Shrug
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/
Feel free to browse around, there are a couple pictures from the Sept
7th match as well, in the Shooting album.
Gunner, who simply doesnt give a shit
Karsten Kruse
> I'm not disputing you, but I am going to post some suggestions that
> would aid in your statements about yourself.
>
> [lots of questions to prove his awesomeness]
Although i think he isn't as awesome as he would like to be, i'm really
not interested in Gunner spilling his life story into alt.survival.
I just don't see the point and think it's highly inappropriate to aks for
it outside of a private conversation.
> I know a guy that ran the marathon for 30 years and never not one time
> did he place above dead last.
Quite an achievement. I doubt i could finnish a marathon right now, and i
consider myself in reasonable shape (for a guy who works in the physically
demanding world of IT that is) ;).
Karsten
--
"Tragically, due to Gunners less-than-stellar mental
capacities, the spoon bent him."
-- The Intarwebs
Karsten Kruse
>> I'm not disputing you, but I am going to post some suggestions that
>> would aid in your statements about yourself.
> Frankly son...I dont care if anyone on usenet believes me or not.
And the usenet doesn't care about you caring or not. Isn't that beautiful?
> Hell..as I recall..you were over to the house some years ago, and
> commented on my trophy wall.....and the "several" firearms I showed
> you.
To quote CanopyCo: ,,I'm not disputing you, [...]''.
Why so defensive? Relax, we don't want to harm you, grampa ;).
Karsten Kruse
>> Tools...... Let's say that body armor is like a shovel. The shovel is
>> one of the most useful tools for defending against a forest fire. It's
>> effective because there are hundreds of firefighters with hundreds of
>> shovels digging firebreaks and putting out spot fires. But do you
>> actually think that if you have a shovel then you, by yourself, would
>> be able to keep a raging forest fire from burning down your house? Of
>> course not. Even if you're foolish enough to try, don't be suprised if
>> the firefighters confiscate your shovel for their own use.
> Actually, I would take my shovel and dig me a hole that I could cover
> with a tarp or plywood or something, then cover that with dirt, and
> possible survive the fire as it passes over me.
Hmm, that seems to be quite a risk to take. Are there reports of people
surviving a fire by digging a hole without suffocating? I guess in most
cases you know of the fire in advance, so you can leave the area.
Karsten Kruse
> http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner
You repeadedly link to files with the location
file:///D:/webpages/Lightspeed/ wich is a path on your harddisk. Although
it looks fine on your computer, it leads nowhere for others. Remove the
string from the html-files and you are good to go.
This should help:
http://www.funduc.com/ftp/sr.zip
http://www.funduc.com/search_replace.htm
Gunner
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
>>> I'm not disputing you, but I am going to post some suggestions that
>>> would aid in your statements about yourself.
>
>> Frankly son...I dont care if anyone on usenet believes me or not.
>
>And the usenet doesn't care about you caring or not. Isn't that beautiful?
>
>> Hell..as I recall..you were over to the house some years ago, and
>> commented on my trophy wall.....and the "several" firearms I showed
>> you.
>
>To quote CanopyCo: ,,I'm not disputing you, [...]''.
>
>Why so defensive? Relax, we don't want to harm you, grampa ;).
>
>Karsten
Defensive? Objective is hardly "defensive"
Gunner
Gunner
>Gummer Arse wrote:
>>so much to do, so little time....sigh.
>
>I though you used to say
>"so many men, so little time"
>back when you were with the village people
>http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/mark.jpg
>
>That explains your constant fascination with homo-erotica
You must have me confused with a Liberal.
Gunner
Gunner
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
>> http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner
>
>You repeadedly link to files with the location
>file:///D:/webpages/Lightspeed/ wich is a path on your harddisk. Although
>it looks fine on your computer, it leads nowhere for others. Remove the
>string from the html-files and you are good to go.
>
>This should help:
>
>http://www.funduc.com/ftp/sr.zip
>http://www.funduc.com/search_replace.htm
>
>Karsten
Ive not mucked around with that website in at least 4 yrs IRRC..Ill
have to get a brand new "roundtuit" one of these days and do something
with it.
Maybe during the winter months when its down to 50F and its too cold
to go outside.
Gunner
Gunner
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
>>
>>Photographs of ribbons / trophies / anything that would show that you
>>placed?
>>I know a guy that ran the marathon for 30 years and never not one time
>>did he place above dead last.
>
>
>Oh...like this?
>
>http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/CanopyLook
>
>Best I could do in 4 minutes
What...sudden dead silence from Canopy?
Thats unusual.
Gunner
Gunner
wrote:
>Gunner Asch schrieb:
>
>>> I'm not disputing you, but I am going to post some suggestions that
>>> would aid in your statements about yourself.
>
>> Frankly son...I dont care if anyone on usenet believes me or not.
>
>And the usenet doesn't care about you caring or not. Isn't that beautiful?
If individuals on Usenet didnt care...why do they keep bringing it up?
Hummm?
Gunner
robert bowman
> Hmm, that seems to be quite a risk to take. Are there reports of people
> surviving a fire by digging a hole without suffocating? I guess in most
> cases you know of the fire in advance, so you can leave the area.
>
In the context of wildfires, people have survived in emergency fire
shelters, aka shake'n'bake bags, without suffocating. Outrunning a wind
driven crown fire isn't always an option.
Karsten Kruse
>>> Frankly son...I dont care if anyone on usenet believes me or not.
>> And the usenet doesn't care about you caring or not. Isn't that beautiful?
> If individuals on Usenet didnt care...why do they keep bringing it up?
Because it's highly entertaining.
I think this gif file explains it perfectly (attention modem users, this
is 830kb big):
http://onetbsd.de/pics/the_enemy.gif
Karsten
--
Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and
we were forced to live on nothing but food and water for days.
-- W. C. Fields, "My Little Chickadee"
CanopyCo
wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote in
> <ce254017-54ac-4984-95d4-142091608...@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 25, 4:30 pm, Frank Gilliland <wïrenut@NOSPAMïcehouse.net>
> >wrote:
> >> On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:31:15 -0700 (PDT), CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> >> wrote in
> >> <6f1faadf-c4b2-4945-aab9-2a73b11da...@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >As I said, if you are the wrong color in allot of places, that is all
> >> >it can take to get you into a real bind.
> >> >And you don't know where they are unless you are on familiar ground.
> >> >In fact, some places will get you over the way you dress.
> >> >Biker bars don't much like suits, and suits don't much like bikers,
> >> >and some local places just don't like anyone from outside.
>
> >> >Facts are facts.
>
> >> Facts are facts but what you stated aren't facts -- they are your own
> >> very narrow-minded opinions. And from the sound of it, they are
> >> probably the product of watching way too much television.
>
> >What facts are they?
> >The ones that I did not get right.
> >The ones that you are disputing are?
>
> >That being the wrong color will get you in a bind in some locations?
>
> Where?
I think you are up north, so Chicago would work out fine.
Go after dark.
:-D
>I'm white and I've walked through some of the blackest areas of
> this country without a problem. If a white person goes there with an
> -attitude-, yeah, you're going to have problems. But the rule is
> 'don't start none, won't be none'.
>
Sure you did.
And any black person is perfectly safe in any white place.
So, the only question we have regarding you is are you really that
ignorant or just lying?
> >Just dressing wrong will get you in the same bind in some locations?
>
> Like wearing a suit in a biker bar? BTDT. Matter of fact, one of my
> sisters married a full-fledged "biker", gang and all, about 15 years
> ago. Same rule applies.
>
Wannabes do not count.
> >Just being an outsider will get you in a bind in some locations?
>
> You don't get it. In the -real- world (i.e, not television) you can go
> just about anywhere and do just about anything you want. But if you
> show an attitude or put on a fake persona then get ready for trouble.
> OTOH, if you are genuine and honest then you wont have any problems
> whatsoever (unless you're honestly hostile or sincerely racist). Heck,
> I was in a hard-core redneck bar in Oregon a long time ago and, in the
> middle of a discussion about music, declared that I don't like Hank
> Williams Jr., which I don't. Now -that- was like the movies, when the
> jukebox shuts off and the room goes quiet. But you stick to your guns
> like I did and you will find that even such a blasphemous declaration
> will actually earn you respect -- because you were honest and didn't
> weasel your way out of what you said. It also helped to point out that
> I like Hank Sr, which I do.
>
> Maybe you get your preconceived notions about people from television
> and maybe not, but they are wrong. Facts are facts, and the fact is
> that people are people regardless of who you are where you are. You
> respect them and they will respect you. Be an ass and get it kicked.
> It's that simple.
>
Clearly you have no clue.
My statements come from experiences.
And they are impossible to misunderstand.
When I walked into the bar and everyone gave me the evil eye, then one
of them tried to stab me before I got my drink down and could leave it
was not because I was mouthing.
I had said nothing the entire time I was there other then "give me a
bud long neck please".
Small bars in small towns in Indian reservations are the worst so far.
> >Go put on your cutest dress, then go down to any red neck homophobic
> >bar and ask someone to dance.
> >It's safe, according to you.
> >In WY a kid got hung on a fence over less then that.
>
> >>Go to the black district to a bar.
> >One that has not one lighter colored face in it other then yours (I
> >presume that you are light skinned).
> >Then start talking about niggers and let me know how it works out for
> >you.
> >Hell, just hang out and try to pick up a chick or just get a drink and
> >let me know how the night ended for you.
>
> Are you saying that it's your right to poke people with a stick?
Sure I do.
Didn't you see me say so in my above post?
Idiot.
Just where do you see the word stick in this post?
What the hell are you rambling about this time?