examples of surrealism outside of the art world
batding
of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
painting,
collage, and other such objects that could fall under the broad umbrella
termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what surrealism is.
Does anyone here practice surrealist techniques, surrealist thought,
surrealist excercises, or whatnot that they wouldn't mind sharing?
Personally, I think that some of the automatic techniques, though their
products are often artistic, would fall into the non-artistic category.
batding
http://www.20-eyes.com/batding
barrett john erickson
"batding" <or...@gurlmail.com> wrote in message
news:klmP5.92949$76.16...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> If anyone has the time, energy, or patience, could you share some examples
> of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
> painting, collage, and other such objects that could fall under the broad
> umbrella termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what
> surrealism is.
the important thing to remember is that, for a surrealist, the object -- the
painting, the sculpture, the text, the poem, etc. -- is never more than a
manifestation of the primary surrealist act of poetic exploration and
experiment (intended to enhance lived reality).
take for example, the Leeds group creating and playing its game
"explorations of absence"---
[ sorry i don't have a clear outline of this game handy, and it continues to
evolve as they create/play it, but it isn't the specifics that are important
to your question, but the approach. ]
which involves each member choosing, exploring and reacting to a "worthless
space" in their area and reporting that reaction back to the group, which
then explores and reacts to the individual's reaction. this process may
take several meetings to evolve.
eventually each space is revealed to the others in a photo, which is then
investigated via predetermined questions (intended i assume, to allow chance
to further reveal the unexpected interaction of poetic dimensions) and each
member producing/finding an object that they feel attaches to that place.
again more than one meeting involved here.
they then expect to combine these objects into one (for each space) and
leave it in that space as an artifact of their surrealist exploration.
the significant elements to note are:
while this game originates with individual reactions, the purpose is to
transform these into a collaborative exploration of the poetic dimensions of
those reactions (by employing chance and automatic techniques).
the collaborative process enhances the individual process (and this has a
cumulative effect over time).
producing the final object is never the focus of the exploration, but merely
an experimental means to extend it further.
hope this helped.
-- barrett
BLUE FEATHERS #3 is now available
http://www.MagneticFields.org/blue/
bar...@MagneticFields.org
http://www.MagneticFields.org/
surrealists in minnesota
Sur...@MagneticFields.org
==============================================
"Everything tends to make us believe that there exists a
certain point of the mind at which life and death, the real and
the imagined, past and future, the communicable and the
incommunicable, high and low, cease to be perceived as
contradictions."
...André Breton
==============================================
Dale Houstman
"barrett john erickson" <bar...@magneticfields.org> wrote in message
news:3a0ecfe9$0$430$7f89...@newsreader.visi.com...
>
> "batding" <or...@gurlmail.com> wrote in message
> news:klmP5.92949$76.16...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
examples
> > of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
> > painting, collage, and other such objects that could fall under the
broad
> > umbrella termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what
> > surrealism is.
>
unlike art movements - surrealism's impact cannot be discerned from a merely
perusal of its "products" (since there are so many "stylistic" variawnces as
to render that process untenable), and that - unlike mere art movements -
there are piles of theoretical texts and public actions to consider. Thus
while Impressionism and Cubism can be assessed by investigations of their
productions, this simply is not true of surrealism, which is more a
philosophy of the imagination than anything else. It is not irrelevant or
co-incidental that surrealism's very name was not "assigned" by art critics
in some lame attempt to define its parameters and flaws (as were
Impressionism, Cubism, Fauvism, etc.), but named by surrealism's "founding
father" as it were. This degree of self-actualization is an indicator of
surrealism's autonomy vis a vis the "art world."
dmh
brandon...@my-deja.com
> take for example, the Leeds group creating and playing its game
> "explorations of absence"---
Do they have a website? Where can I find out more about them?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> If anyone has the time, energy, or patience, could you share some
> examples of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world?
Of the top of my head, cloud watching. "Hey, see that cloud over there,
that looks like that girl I met the other night ... and that one right,
that looks like a bicycle riding a lion ... [etc]"
> Personally, I think that some of the automatic techniques, though
> their products are often artistic, would fall into the non-artistic
> category.
Definitely. Cloud watching has much in common with Max Ernst's idea of
forced inspiration, and maybe even Dali's paranoia-critical thoery.
barrett john erickson
<brandon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8un0fr$de8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> barrett john erickson wrote:
> > take for example, the Leeds group creating and playing its game
> > "explorations of absence"---
>
> Do they have a website? Where can I find out more about them?
they pulled it off-line quite a while ago. they say it will return soon.
i'll try to remember to send you the link when it does.
but i'm getting older.
-- barrett
elag
Something I posted a while back:
Subject: Moulding the Mundane
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 00:26:05 -0500
Sometimes I test video editing software. I must "capture" multiple
video files. Normally these would be named in a sequence such as
"TEST01, TEST02" &tc. I play a sort of "Exquisite Corpse" game with
myself... naming the files in alphabetical sequence w/ as little
critical thought as possible. The following is the result of one days
work w/ limited editorial intrusion.
[A] battered buyer buzzes by bytes.
[The} dapper darkness.
Dastardly data daubing days dazed.
[The] dictator didn't diecast differences.
[A] doctored doddering dodecahedron doffs doggedly.
Doing Dolls.
Dominating Donatives.
[A] dotty dovetailed doyen dozes.
[An] eel effectively egging eidetic ejections; emetic energy.
[The] Eohippus' epithet equals errata.
[A] European evokes... exacerbating fat favourites.
Parry
>
> If anyone has the time, energy, or patience, could you share some examples
> of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
> painting,
> collage, and other such objects that could fall under the broad umbrella
> termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what surrealism is.
Dreams, love, dissidence, sabotage, blasphemy, chance encounters,
collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
Your question creates a false dichotomy by separating art from life. And
as surrealism arises from subjects and thought, one cannot discover it
as a non-participatory observer.
-- Parry
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Beingthere
>
> Of the top of my head, cloud watching. "Hey, see that cloud over there,
> that looks like that girl I met the other night ... and that one right,
> that looks like a bicycle riding a lion ... [etc]"
years ago, i heard an interview on the radio with some musician, from the
Stranglers I think, or Joe Strummer, someone of that ilk, and the
interviewer said "your music's very political isn't it?", to which he
replied, "yeah, well, music shouldn't be about the clouds rolling by, should
it?"
Aargh!
Of course it should be. Art in general, and especially music, which is the
most abstact of the arts, should be about the beauty of the world around us,
whether the natural, or man-made, about the sheer joy of just beingthere.
Beingthere
> of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
> painting,
> collage, and other such objects that could fall under the broad umbrella
> termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what surrealism is.
Just walking down the street can be a surrealist experience, as long as your
mind is open to the possibilities, and you can make connections between the
many and varied juxtapositions of odd things.
batding
> Just walking down the street can be a surrealist experience, as long as
your
> mind is open to the possibilities, and you can make connections between
the
> many and varied juxtapositions of odd things.
But this would mean that *anything* can be surreal or put under the umbrella
of surrealism as long as you are in the right frame of mind... and that
seems to be the very thing that everyone disagrees with vehemently.
batding
batding
> the important thing to remember is that, for a surrealist, the object --
the
> painting, the sculpture, the text, the poem, etc. -- is never more than a
> manifestation of the primary surrealist act of poetic exploration and
> experiment (intended to enhance lived reality).
Now that makes good sense to me. A good explanation.
> [ sorry i don't have a clear outline of this game handy, and it continues
to
> evolve as they create/play it, but it isn't the specifics that are
important
> to your question, but the approach. ]
It's too bad they don't have a webpage currently... this "game" sounds
interesting.
> hope this helped.
>
>
> -- barrett
Certainly. Thank you. My main problem is thinking of actual activities
that are surrealist but not art at the same time. The game is a good
example.
batding
batding
> I think - in the interest of clarity - it is also useful to note that -
> unlike art movements - surrealism's impact cannot be discerned from a
merely
> perusal of its "products" (since there are so many "stylistic" variawnces
as
> to render that process untenable), and that - unlike mere art movements -
> there are piles of theoretical texts and public actions to consider. Thus
> while Impressionism and Cubism can be assessed by investigations of their
> productions, this simply is not true of surrealism, which is more a
> philosophy of the imagination than anything else. It is not irrelevant or
> co-incidental that surrealism's very name was not "assigned" by art
critics
> in some lame attempt to define its parameters and flaws (as were
> Impressionism, Cubism, Fauvism, etc.), but named by surrealism's "founding
> father" as it were. This degree of self-actualization is an indicator of
> surrealism's autonomy vis a vis the "art world."
>
I'm not trying to discern what surrealism is by looking at it's products,
but rather
I find I have reached a mental block when it comes to envisioning surrealist
activities that don't happen to result in art. I know that surrealism
exists outside of art, and sometimes the product is art (heh, thanks
barrett), but I have trouble thinking of the instances in which there is no
art.
batding
batding
> Of the top of my head, cloud watching. "Hey, see that cloud over there,
> that looks like that girl I met the other night ... and that one right,
> that looks like a bicycle riding a lion ... [etc]"
Is any similar act that utilizes the imagination therefore also surrealism?
batding
batding
> years ago, i heard an interview on the radio with some musician, from the
> Stranglers I think, or Joe Strummer, someone of that ilk, and the
> interviewer said "your music's very political isn't it?", to which he
> replied, "yeah, well, music shouldn't be about the clouds rolling by,
should
> it?"
> Aargh!
> Of course it should be. Art in general, and especially music, which is the
> most abstact of the arts, should be about the beauty of the world around
us,
> whether the natural, or man-made, about the sheer joy of just beingthere.
I kind of share that feeling sometimes...
but I also think that art should be about pain, emotions, struggles, events,
concerns,
issues, and so on.
Art is a form of expression, not only limited to representing things that we
see in our physical world.
batding
batding
> > Does anyone here practice [...] surrealist thought, technique [...]
> > that they wouldn't mind sharing?
>
> another or from a surrealist's life, but I will try to do that here. :)
But can surrealism be seperated from art? Surely it can be as many have
explained that surrealism itself is not an art movement.
What I was getting at though was that I can easily conjure up images of
surrealist artwork, but I cannot think of other instances of surrealism
where art is not the product/result.
> Something I have found to be really fun and helpful is looking
> at surrealist websites: first I enjoyed some of barrett's pages,
> and then some of the links. From the latter there are other links,
> and in the process of moving through them you get ideas.
Absolutely.
> I found I've probably learned most of what I understand about
> surrealist thought from looking at the individuals and various groups
> as a whole: what is the aggregate -- rather than looking solely at
> someone's art, or creative writing, or through ignoring either or
> both of these in favor of studying essays or journalistic contributions
> (or one particular type of newsgroup contribution.) The one kind of
> work (genre) is not essentially separate from the other and neither
> is separate from the life.
>
> Surrealist thought is an essential and alive _process_ -- and though
> it is collaborative, you can only uncover it in your own way. That, I
> suppose, is part of the beautiful enigma.
>
> One piece of this process involves quietly observing living
> surrealists, (and considering, for example, what it is about these
> people/their works that sets them apart from others yet makes them
> similar to one another, and therefore recognizable _to you_); another
> part of the process of investigating surrealist thought is explored
> through your own reading, writing, drawing, etc. -- in short, through
> your entire life, both waking and dreaming, "seeing" that everything
> is alive (because your imagination is alive) and, despite some resting
> periods, in flux.
Oh I totally agree that this is the way to learn what surrealism is.
batding
>
>
> >
> > Personally, I think that some of the automatic techniques, though
> their
> > products are often artistic, would fall into the non-artistic
> category.
> >
> > batding
> > http://www.20-eyes.com/batding
> >
> >
>
>
batding
> batding wrote:
> >
> > If anyone has the time, energy, or patience, could you share some
examples
> > of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
> > painting,
> > collage, and other such objects that could fall under the broad umbrella
> > termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what surrealism
is.
>
> collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
>
> Your question creates a false dichotomy by separating art from life. And
> as surrealism arises from subjects and thought, one cannot discover it
> as a non-participatory observer.
But are there surrealists out there that do things other than things that
produce art? Is there an activity out there that would be surrealist
without it ending with a work of art? I know that surrealism exists outside
of the art world, as well as in, but I cannot think of examples of
surrealism outside of artwork.
batding
brandon...@my-deja.com
> Is any similar act that utilizes the imagination therefore also
> surrealism?
Yeah, for the most part, I think so.
I think, at least right now, the problem some people have with
seperating Surrealism from art is that Surrealism places so much on the
imagination and creativity. From my experience most people can't
seperate these factors from art, and can't see how these factors can,
will, or have effected everyday life. Other people simply overlook the
fact that they are creative in their everyday life.
In another post you mention that you have trouble finding a Surrealist
activity that does not end in art. I do also at times, but there are
games out there that do not end in art. For example, the game "The
Magic Voyage" (I know about it through A Book of Surrealist Games)
starts with the participants selecting a random spot on a map, and
finishes with the group travelling there. The creativity is in how you
get there. Who knows what you'll find along the way. If you live in a
big city this could be very fun and interesting. In Portland its rather
pointless. I think I've been everywhere.
barrett john erickson
> But are there surrealists out there that do things other than things that
> produce art? Is there an activity out there that would be surrealist
> without it ending with a work of art? I know that surrealism exists
outside
> of the art world, as well as in, but I cannot think of examples of
> surrealism outside of artwork.
first, as i think i remember someone else saying, it's important not to
force
a false dichotomy.
to say, as i have on many occasions, that "surrealism is not about art", is
not to say that surrealism can be _separated_ from art -- only that
the resulting objects, texts, etc. that some might refer to as "art" are
peripheral to the actual surrealist activity (which is concerned with the
creative exploration of our daily experience).
but to answer your question:
there are many surrealists out there who wouldn't be considered artists in
the usual sense, and would deny any interest in producing what the general
public would call art.
i know a surrealist in holland, for example, who is a theoretical physicist.
he explores the poetic dimensions of modern science and its convergence on
themes and perspectives that have always been of interest to surrealists.
this is surrealist work, and the marvelous texts he produces are intended
only to convey his results and further the evolution of surrealist theory.
[ www.magneticfields.org/EARdJour/one/page5.html ]
it is important, as Dale said, not to get caught up trying to use the
"product" of surrealist activity to determine the surrealist. there is no
surrealist attribute to be found there.
jsday
>
> But this would mean that *anything* can be surreal or put under the umbrella
> of surrealism as long as you are in the right frame of mind... and that
> seems to be the very thing that everyone disagrees with vehemently.
Nope. It would mean that surrealism is big enough that once you're
inside it, it changes the whole universe, which everyone did seem to
agree on, last time I asked him.
_
Nikolaus Maack
> Nope. It would mean that surrealism is big enough that once you're
> inside it, it changes the whole universe, which everyone did seem to
> agree on, last time I asked him.
Please pardon my sticky fingers as I correct you. Everyone is a
hermaphrodite, and prefers to be called "herim" -- a sort of hybrid of
"him" and "her" that sounds kind of like "cherubim", but not.
Here's proof:
Everyone of us is a hermaphrodite.
A bottled imp, a gold troll, a drunken sprite.
A pixel of ink on a beam of sunlight.
Two hundred dead hamsters in a silken sack.
Not the dam, not the water, but the small crack.
Yes, everyone one of us is Nikolaus Maack.
Nik
--
NOW AVAILABLE! Art by Nik in mass produced formats!
'L. Ron' t-shirts, coffee mugs, and mouse pads.
Just click: http://www.cafepress.com/nikart
Paul Orsi
while the object of Magic is to transform, then it is obvious that the
Surrealists associated themselves with Magic, in the historical sense and in
relation to poetry. Science is in the ethical sense a development of
Magic"(Phillip Lamantia). Phil once told me that the purpose of his poetry
was to tap into a flow.
Your question on Drugs? I felt that LSD-25 (taken over thirty years ago)
could be used for surrealist research. An example would be how more organic
spatial concepts can change our architectures (the way we inhabit our space).
The Dialation of Time can also be useful in the arts. John Cage would come to
mind. Syncretic thoughts or Syneasthesia has useful connotations. Telepathy is
also interesting. I would say in the long term logging Dreams and better yet
Lucid dreaming would be far superior to Hallucinogens.
Sven
> jsday (js...@dragon.achilles.net) writes:
>> Nope. It would mean that surrealism is big enough that once you're
>> inside it, it changes the whole universe, which everyone did seem to
>> agree on, last time I asked him.
>
> Please pardon my sticky fingers as I correct you. Everyone is a
> hermaphrodite, and prefers to be called "herim" -- a sort of hybrid of
> "him" and "her" that sounds kind of like "cherubim", but not.
>
> Here's proof:
>
> Everyone of us is a hermaphrodite.
> A bottled imp, a gold troll, a drunken sprite.
> A pixel of ink on a beam of sunlight.
> Two hundred dead hamsters in a silken sack.
> Not the dam, not the water, but the small crack.
> Yes, everyone one of us is Nikolaus Maack.
It's all right for some. My name is "Gunther Quicksilver". Make poetry out
of that.
Oh, and I'm only half hermaphrodite. And I prefer the term, "Marvenus".
batding
>
> What about in the process of creating the artifact, and contemplating
> the artifact?
>
> And are dreams art?
>
> Our definitions of "art", "artwork" and "surrealist" may be different
> of course. I'm curious about how you are loosely defining each, at
> this point. :)
>
> cythera.
I think everyone is making this more complicated than it has to be.
What is an example of surrealism that does not produce a work of art (as in
a painting, a drawing, a collage, or something else that an art historian
would consider "art")?
I am not attempting to figure out what surrealism is. I am not trying to
seperate surrealism from art.
I just wanted some simple examples of surrealism that isn't linked to art.
It appears to be easy to explain that surrealism is not an art movement, but
trying to give examples of it outside the art world seems difficult. Maybe
for the reasons you mentioned, that the definitions of what is art, artwork,
and surrealist are fuzzy.
Maybe to someone, dreams are art, but as I know.. art history does not
regard them so. Therefore, if you are saying that dreams can be surrealism,
then that's a great example.
An artifact is a wonderful example... I like that. Though someone might
label it art, I do believe it could be an example of a surrealist "act" (for
lack of a better word) that ends in something that is not concretely art.
batding
batding
> A person who has a surreal experience (for instance, a dream) isn't
> necessarily "surrealist", though -- do you agree? :)
>
> cythera.
Certainly ;)
batding
batding
> "Surrealism is based on materialism. Magic has coercion for its keynote
and
> while the object of Magic is to transform, then it is obvious that the
> Surrealists associated themselves with Magic, in the historical sense and
in
> relation to poetry. Science is in the ethical sense a development of
> Magic"(Phillip Lamantia). Phil once told me that the purpose of his
poetry
> was to tap into a flow.
> Your question on Drugs? I felt that LSD-25 (taken over thirty years
ago)
> could be used for surrealist research. An example would be how more
organic
> spatial concepts can change our architectures (the way we inhabit our
space).
> The Dialation of Time can also be useful in the arts. John Cage would come
to
> mind. Syncretic thoughts or Syneasthesia has useful connotations.
Telepathy is
> also interesting. I would say in the long term logging Dreams and better
yet
> Lucid dreaming would be far superior to Hallucinogens.
I agree with you on the dream logging. When you syneasthesia, do you mean
the way that some people have been known to visualize most numbers, names,
and some words in color? Or have I got the wrong syn-a-something-esia?
batding
Parry
>
> parry:
> > batding wrote:
> > >
> > > If anyone has the time, energy, or patience, could you share some
> examples
> > > of surrealism as it exists outside of the art world? Beyond poetry,
> > > painting,
> > > collage, and other such objects that could fall under the broad umbrella
> > > termed art, I have trouble conjuring up images of just what surrealism
> is.
> >
> > Dreams, love, dissidence, sabotage, blasphemy, chance encounters,
> > collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
> >
> > Your question creates a false dichotomy by separating art from life. And
> > as surrealism arises from subjects and thought, one cannot discover it
> > as a non-participatory observer.
>
> But are there surrealists out there that do things other than things that
> produce art?
Benjamin Péret worked for a French communist newspaper in the 20’s, was
imprisoned in Brazil in the 30’s for subversive activity, fought with
the Spanish anarchists, worked as a proofreader, visited Amazon Indians
in the 50’s...
> Is there an activity out there that would be surrealist
> without it ending with a work of art?
Dreams, love, dissidence, sabotage, blasphemy, chance encounters,
collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
-- Parry
Jean-Jacqu...@wanadoo.fr
wrote:
>batding wrote:
>>
>> Is there an activity out there that would be surrealist
>> without it ending with a work of art?
>
>Dreams, love, dissidence, sabotage, blasphemy, chance encounters,
>collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
>
>-- Parry
you also could consider the way democracy and mathematic are played in
florida.
great show.
--
UBU
Le monde ne vaut que par les extrémes et ne dure que
par les moyens.Il ne vaut que par les ultras et ne
dure que par les modérés.
valery.
batding
> > Is there an activity out there that would be surrealist
> > without it ending with a work of art?
>
> collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
How is sabotage surreal? Or blashemy?
brandon...@my-deja.com
> How is sabotage surreal? Or blashemy?
Sabotage is deliberate subversion. Certain surrealist activities are
the sabotage of certain cultural norms, aiming at transforming the
world via the sabotage ... (is that dogma?)
Blasphemy is disrespect of what a culture considers "sacred". I always
saw blasphemy as something that happened by accident, like when an
individual has a empiphany that subverts what s/he has been brainwashed
by their culture to believe. It is the freeing of the mind from the
handcuffs of culture ... (is that dogma too?)
Dale Houstman
> Parry
> > > Is there an activity out there that would be surrealist
> > > without it ending with a work of art?
> >
> > collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
>
>
state.
Blasphemy challenges and disorders the workings of the religious state.
That's good enough for me.
But the more clarifying question - for both of us - would be why you don't
find sabotage and blasphemy surreal?
dmh
Dale Houstman
<Jean-Jacqu...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:3a16d545...@News.wanadoo.fr...
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 13:35:39 -0500, Parry <pa...@zxOMITmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >batding wrote:
> >>
>
> >> without it ending with a work of art?
> >
> >collective work, spontaneous images seen in peeling birch bark, etc.
> >
>
>
> you also could consider the way democracy and mathematic are played in
> florida.
>
> great show.
It is vastly amusing and - more importantly - revealing of the general
stupidity of the election process and the seductions of power. I think most
people are rather bored with it by now (this being exacerbated by the
media's hungry need to present news when there is none: endless reels of
nothing between occasional courts decisions and the like), and would just
like it to go away.
I am most tickled by how tainted this renders whomever gets "the big prize"
(and it appears Bush will grab that dirty ring) 4 years of stumbling around
in the divided dark (with a sporadic dart into a corporate bank) and we get
to vote someone else in. But aren't the DNC and the RNC running out of
compelling mediocrity if this was the best they could do this time? A
compelling mediocrity shortage!
dmh
batding
> Sabotage challenges and disorders the workings of the industrial/corporate
> state.
>
> Blasphemy challenges and disorders the workings of the religious state.
>
> That's good enough for me.
>
> But the more clarifying question - for both of us - would be why you don't
> find sabotage and blasphemy surreal?
How are causing problems with the industrial/corporate/religious state
surreal?
I do believe you are changing the way that people think, hopefully, but I do
not
feel that this is necessarily surreal. I guess in that you are freeing
people's minds
and showing them a new way of thinking, there must be something surreal to
it
all... but I have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
batding
brandon...@my-deja.com
> How are causing problems with the industrial/corporate/religious state
> surreal?
They are some of the powers that cause the repression, oppression,
depression, supression of the mind. Revolting against them is what
Surrealism is, and does. Sabotage and blasphemy are weapons of revolt,
and therefor weapons of Surrealism.
> I do believe you are changing the way that people think, hopefully,
> but I do not feel that this is necessarily surreal.
Perhaps the problem is with how you are defining "Surreal"? I think
this is what Dale was getting at when he said, "why you don't find
sabotage and blasphemy surreal?" ... but I won't speak for him.
Parry
The intent isn’t to change the way people think, as suggested, but
rather to monkey wrench the apparatus of control. Perhaps Laura should
address Dale’s question.
Phun Phacts:
The most commonly given origin of the word “sabotage” is that 19th
century Luddites fought mechanization in the English textile industry by
throwing their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery, to “clog” the
gears so to speak. (Parliament wanted the destruction of machinery to be
a capital offense.) An alternate etymology involves sabots (railway
ties, apparently) cut by rebel French workers in 1912.
The Wobblies used a black cat as a symbol for sabotage, a technique of
“peaceful non-compliance” which they advocated. Sabotage was used
notably by anarcho-syndicalists in Spain, France, and Italy. In recent
years, it has been employed by environmental activists -- spiking trees,
destroying GM crops, and so on.
As for blasphemy. To offend god may not seem a big deal -- a victimless
crime, as they say -- but, when the kings and church were in charge, it
used to be punishable by death. It’s still an unofficial crime.
(Actually, I suppose it’s official in Germany and some other places.)
This god business is the greatest system of thought control ever
developed, and there is a persistence of crippling illusions: that there
is a cosmic hierarchy of power to the universe (with, for instance,
white man’s somewhere in the middle, above non-whites and other
animals); that everything -- no matter how miserable, patently unfair,
and spirit-snuffing -- happens for reasons beyond human control; that
the apparatus of the church rests on the moral authority of
divinely-inspired texts; and so on.
Beingthere
> > But this would mean that *anything* can be surreal or put under the
umbrella
> > of surrealism as long as you are in the right frame of mind... and that
> > seems to be the very thing that everyone disagrees with vehemently.
>
> inside it, it changes the whole universe, which everyone did seem to
> agree on, last time I asked him.
Have we agreed on what we agree upon yet?
Beingthere
> I don't know what beingthere means by "surrealist experience" or
> "odd things", so I'd better skip over this and give her or him
> a large space in which to explain, if there is that desire to do
> so...
Her or him's not sure either. Maybe I should publish my illustrated
adventures in which I took walks through the city writing down everything
that happened to me. In which the hidden spaces of the city and the lost
tribes that live there were revealed to me. For instance, I once had a
friend, a down and out gentleman, who believed I was an angel...