The Unreal Hyperbole of Cythera - please comment
Fascinan
<<Hi.
I have contacted this abuser's local SPCA and police department, but would like
to do more.
And I decided to ask if some of you would complain to them too:
1.
The Richmond, Va. SPCA.
To: Robin Robertson Starr,
Executive Director
http://www.richmondspca.org/
Phone: 804/643-6785
Fax: 804/644-8327
2.
The Richmond, Va. Police.
Colonel Jerry A Oliver, Richmond Police Chief.
Oliv...@ci.richmond.va.us
Thanks.
Cythera.
---
I read the following on Usenet.
By Corey Tez, who writes as "Fasc...@aol.com".
http://x54.deja.com/threadmsg_if.xp?thitnum=1&AN=684667690.1&mhitnum
=1&CONTEXT=972630164.599130113
He has written elsewhere as Cornelius Hatchaven.
He has written that he lives in the country west of Richmond.
Forum: alt.surrealism
Thread: Warring Angels
Message 2 of 33
I have two chows, well they are my sister's really. She just left them in the
small pen out back here because she has no room for them in her new house. They
are lovable enough, but I can't let them out because they kill just about
anything smaller than them.
(Note: He doesn't let the dogs out of a small cage!)
Last year my cat got in their pen and they ripped her apart - it was rather
sad.
Today, they are fighting like they usually do, but I realize that it is not the
usual play fighting - they are ripping at eachother's throats, and bloody at
that. The older chow has taken care of the younger as a mother would for years
now, what has happened now that they are at odds? I couldn't separate them. I
sprayed them with the hose, yelled, jumped up and down....they kept fighting
harder. I lept in a kicked the larger chow hard because I thought she was going
to kill the smaller one. They didnt stop. After 10 minutes or so they stopped.
They were bloody, and my heart sank because I had kicked my dog in the heat of
battle (which for me was to separate them). Later on today I took them some
hamburger, and the one I kicked hid in the corner of the pen - never before
have I seen this behaviour. Finally, she came up and ate the peace offering.
She still hasn't licked me though.
(This man has very likely injured the animal, maybe fatally.)
Weird, last night I hit a deer (a large buck) at 55mph. Slammed the poor bugger
just trying to cross the road. My car was smashed good, air bags popped and
all. I'm killing deer and kicking my dog - what a shitty weekend.
Fas
---
Can you believe this creep?!>>>
I, for one, can't believe your heinous claim. From my one post you have cut
and pasted me into some horrible projection of your own paranoia. I think you
are completely off your rocker Cythera. Do you think I tried to hit a deer?
Do you think I enjoyed it or something? You responded calling me an ignorant
shit that deserved to hit the deer. You have NO idea of the context of any of
these situations aside from my one, vague post. You have interferred in the
life of an absolute stranger. Just think, if by some impossible stretch of the
imagination, the chows (which are perfectly healthy and happy) are taken by the
SPCA, my 3 year old niece who comes over to play with these "killer chows"
would probably not like it very much. Nor would my sister - they are her dogs.
Nor would my parents or my brother. The ONLY reason that I kicked my dog's
rump, and, of course, the ONLY time that it has happened was a last attempt to
separate them from a fight they had - in a period of 3 or more years this is
the only serious time they have fought. Horse trainers hit their horses noses
to break the animals. Why don't you report every single horse owner on the
planet to their respective SPCAs Cythera, maybe the world would be a better
place.
I can only hope that whoever else has read your egregious slurs against me has
the common sense to know that I'm a good person who treats his animals well,
but was in a very bad circumstance, hence wrote about it in a newsgroup because
I felt badly about that circumstance. And you call the authorities, painting
me as a "creep" - totally ridiculous, COMPLETELY unwarranted.
Fas
elag
happened, judging from Fas' original post I would say that Cythera's
reaction was an overreaction. Time and an abundance of new posts on the
topic has not changed my view.
C'est La Usenet.
Sven
Watch me, I'm throttling my cat as we speak. I've got it on film, too, so
you won't have to trust my word as a poster on Usenet.
Seriously, her reaction is ridiculous and melodramatic.
---
Parry
> I can only hope that whoever else has read your egregious slurs against me has
> the common sense to know that I'm a good person who treats his animals well,
> but was in a very bad circumstance, hence wrote about it in a newsgroup because
> I felt badly about that circumstance. And you call the authorities, painting
> me as a "creep" - totally ridiculous, COMPLETELY unwarranted.
I would venture to guess that Cythera is alone in thinking you’ve abused
animals. And I don’t think highly of her cop-calling antics. Clearly the
reasonable thing to do, if she was worried about your animals, would
have been to confront you directly. This would have posed no risk to her
and likely have led to a quick resolution.
-- Parry
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Nikolaus Maack
> I can only hope that whoever else has read your egregious slurs against
>me has the common sense to know that I'm a good person who treats his
>animals well,
Fas, for what it's worth, I think most of us are aware that Cythera is
damaged goods. Unfortunately it's this sort of stupidity that prevents
people from speaking their minds on usenet. I'd imagine that next time
you begin to post a tale of any kind, you'll have to wonder whether
Cythera will read some great evil into your actions.
I know I am still baffled from the one occasion when I said:
"That should be enough poems for you to work with, for now, Cythera."
...and she interpreted it as a sexist slur.
Some people are thin skinned. In Cythera's case, I suspect she has no
skin at all.
(She'll probably interpret that last comment as racist.)
Nik
--
NOW AVAILABLE! Art by Nik in mass produced formats!
'L. Ron' t-shirts, coffee mugs, and mouse pads.
Just click: http://www.cafepress.com/nikart
brandon...@my-deja.com
> I did not (and would not have) called you a creep in what was
> essentially business correspondence;
Of course, when corresponding with those who have power you must use
the proper etiquette (i.e. the repressive lingo of the repressed).
> You did what you did now take your lumps.
Oh please. Its more like, "You did what you did now your dogs are going
to die at the hands of the state."
If you really cared about these animals you would have investigated the
incident through discussion with Fas before taking action. Chances are
you are going to remove those dogs from the only group of people who
actually give a shit about them (all because one family member kicked
on in the butt to stop a fight). In the hands of the state they will
live six months at the max.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nikolaus Maack
> And you are so full of it to go on as if you are a victim or as if
> this was about your kicking your dog (now you are adding the location
> -- in the rump, etc. You have extrapolated this into something talk
> about horse trainers -- completely unrelated.
> What a crybaby for pity sake. You did what you did now take your
> lumps.
Self-righteousness is always ugly.
Were you beaten when you were a puppy?
Tred-marks on your posterior
has put scars on your interior.
Try not to feel so inferior,
as you rattle your sabre at your neighbour.
Fascinan
>And you are so full of it to go on as if you are a victim or as if
>this was about your kicking your dog (now you are adding the location
>-- in the rump, etc. You have extrapolated this into something talk
>about horse trainers -- completely unrelated.
I am the victim of your ignorance, paranoia, and ridiculous slander. I added
the location because it's just another fact that you didn't/don't know - you
posted that you thought I fatally hurt the dog (get real!)
I added the horse trainer comment because it speaks of context, something you
apparently have no clue about. You were totally wrong about the size of the
dogs' pen (which you call a small cage), totally wrong about how I treat them,
you're just plain wrong. You've accused me of writing posts about you in the
past - again, completely wrong, delusional. You've accused alot of people in
this newsgroup of various things - hmmm.
>What a crybaby for pity sake. You did what you did now take your
>lumps.
Crybaby? Who's the crybaby here Cythera? You are completely deluded.
Fas
brandon...@my-deja.com
> Tomorrow why don't you tell off your boss?
I have a good relationship with my boss. Why should I tell him off? To
please you? I don't see what this has to do with anything ...
> What ? Did Fascinan write that his animals are going to be
> "destroyed"? If they are not going to be, then I don't see that
> this is apropos.
I'm hoping you'll actually think about what the outcome of your actions
will actually be, rather than pretend your somehow "liberating" the
animals. By "making that call" you place a lot of responsibility on
yourself. Your recent actions are reckless and you obviously did not
consider what the outcome could be. If the state is stupid enough to
take action the outcome will be bloody for the animals and emotionally
painfull for Fas's family. Your actions are an assault on both parties.
You seem to have no idea what you are doing. You acted purely out of
distaste for Fas, not sympathy for his pets.
> I agree with Dale that ...
When have you not agreed with Dale?
> In closing, I will repeat the phrase "shared responsibility." If
> you, and Parry, felt that I "should" have written Fascinan and tried
> to counsel him or what-have-you, then I say _why_ did each of you not
> do that _yourselves_.
Because we knew it was nothing to get all worked up about.
Dale Houstman
<brandon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8upi7k$e9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> cythera wrote:
> > Tomorrow why don't you tell off your boss?
>
> I have a good relationship with my boss. Why should I tell him off? To
> please you? I don't see what this has to do with anything ...
>
> > What ? Did Fascinan write that his animals are going to be
> > "destroyed"? If they are not going to be, then I don't see that
> > this is apropos.
>
> I'm hoping you'll actually think about what the outcome of your actions
> will actually be, rather than pretend your somehow "liberating" the
> animals. By "making that call" you place a lot of responsibility on
> yourself. Your recent actions are reckless and you obviously did not
> consider what the outcome could be. If the state is stupid enough to
> take action the outcome will be bloody for the animals and emotionally
> painfull for Fas's family. Your actions are an assault on both parties.
> You seem to have no idea what you are doing. You acted purely out of
> distaste for Fas, not sympathy for his pets.
>
> > I agree with Dale that ...
>
> When have you not agreed with Dale?
Oh there were some moments.
I must say that involving the police ALWAYS has consequences, many of which
are worse than anything one might "hope" for.
There was a case here in Minnesota: at a wedding reception one old fuck was
getting a little liberal with the liquor and when he went for his vehicle,
family members tried to restrain him, get his keys, etc. Nevertheless he
drove off. The family then called the police who chased him down the
highway, increasing his speed (via panic) and causing him eventually to run
up a ramp the wrong way. Result? He was dead and another family seriously
injured. One can't tell of course, but in all likelihood he would have
gotten home safely, so that his family might have done an intervention on
this point at some date.
I once worked at a convenience store (my worst job ever in many ways) and
one night a customer was refusing to leave until I cashed his $100 check for
a few small items. There was no way I could do that. He also threatened
other customers. I asked him in every way I could to move on, to complain to
the manager, etc. No effect. I wasn't about to involve myself in physical
combat with the guy, for various reasons not all cowardly. I told him that I
was prepared to call the police several times, told him that I didn't want
to. He wouldn't leave and continued to threaten everyone, etc. When I did
call the police they asked me if he "were an Indian". I mentioned that I
hardly found that to be a pertinent point, and they arrived a few minutes
later and escorted him outside. I accompanied them, trying to oversee their
actions. They eventually released him with no harm done.
The damage here? To my psyche: I still feel guilty about this action,
especially as the Minneapolis police are nationally known for their
corruption and brutality towards minorities.
This is no big example of anything, but only of the ambiguity of these
situations. There is no doubt a larger battle must go on to ascertain
exactly what sort of police force or security we are owed or desire, and an
even larger debate over why society allows itself to become so
disassociative and alienating. But neither of those concenrs would have
resolved themselves that night. All I could do (and did) was to make certain
no one's rights were bruised or broken in a process I am not too proud of in
the long run.
Society (as long as we have not entered some receding "Golden Age") will
always create systems of protection, worse or better.
I probably wouldn't have engaged myself in the dog affair because of the
various reasons given by all, but if it had been a child I would have felt
little hesitation about calling - say - the Child Welfare authorities, if
only because nothing I would do personally would accomplish much beyond
angering the abuser further and lead to more abuse. That I feel more
concerned avout humans than animals (in most cases) can be held against me I
know, but neverthless it's true. I have found myself involved (sometimes
very profoundly) in such child-abuse cases and acted as I felt I had to, to
the point of going to court for testimony. Was the child removed in these
cases? Yes... Were their lives improved? In the one case I know the length
and breadth of I would say positively. But this isn't a forgone conclusion
of course. One does what one can. And it is imperfect. Dogma about
idealistic "anti-power" stances and such won't always be useful in a world
where - let's be frank - surrealism isn't exactly the going thing.
dmh
brandon...@my-deja.com
> Oh there were some moments.
Maybe you know this, but she doesn't.
> ... but if it had been a child I would have felt little hesitation
> about calling - say - the Child Welfare authorities ...
It is also important to note that the Child Welfare authorities do not
KILL the children if they are left unwanted for a period of time. The
analogy between children and animals is a bad one.
Once a neighbor of my sister's took a kitten to the human society. My
sister went there the next day hoping to transfer the kitten to the no-
kill animal shelter where she (and sometimes I) volunteer. "Oh, sorry,
that kitten was destroyed yesterday." The Human Society didn't even
give the kitten a day before killing it.
batding
Fas writes a post about kicking his dog and feeling terrible about it.
Quite a few conclusions were arrived at due to this one, emotionally
charged, not-so-descriptive post.
Cythera's concerns seem to relate to a few things:
1) a dog was kicked
2) the dogs were known to be viscious (sp?)
3) the size of the dogs' pen
I think it's quite forgiveable to kick one's dog when they are greatly
endangering their life and the life of another dog. Fas expressed being
disturbed by this violent outburst, which leads me to believe it has not
happened before. The most important issue relating to the kicking of the
dog is whether the dog is injured or not. I'm quite confident that a dog
owner would be hyper-aware of any problems the dog may be having and would
see that a vet was seen. These concerns of course could be addressed with
Fas through email.
The dogs were violent, which links into a concern over the size of their
pen. Chows are known for a violent nature and I believe things are more
complicated than the size of the pen. How many hours a day are they in this
pen? What is it's size exactly? How old are the dogs and have they always
been together? If this is the first incidence of terrible violence with
each other, then maybe this is the first time it's been brought to the
owner's attention that they should possibly be seperated. These are all
things that could have been discussed with Fas in a cool manner as opposed
to an accusing one.
I have an extreme passion for animals, and do not want to see a single one
mistreated, but I don't think anyone can take Fas's post and safely conclude
that he or his family are animal abusers. There are too many things unsaid,
too many other considerations and possibilities, and I definately feel that
going to the authorities is the wrong action to take. It's too bad it's
already been done. If Fas's dogs are actually being kept in a large pen,
and not for all that long each day, and they have never fought with each
other like this before, then I truly believe nothing terrible has happened.
I think it would be awful for the gov't to step in and take the dog's away
under some false assumptions due to one post on usenet. The gov't kills
animals and I have little faith that they would help the animals under most
circumstances.
batding
.
Fascinan
>Cythera's concerns seem to relate to a few things:
>
>1) a dog was kicked
>2) the dogs were known to be viscious (sp?)
>3) the size of the dogs' pen
>These are all
>things that could have been discussed with Fas in a cool manner as opposed
>to an accusing one.
Exactly, I was accused and falsely judged before I could provide any details,
before I could defend my own actions - which I think preposterous to even have
to do so at all. From one vague post Cythera made up her mind - without an
inkling of what happened or how I take care of my animals or anything about me
- that I am guilty of animal abuse, so much so to post my name and location on
message boards, where she calls me a "Creep" and says I might have fatally
injured my dog, and even encourages people to act against me calling the
"authorities" as she so quickly did.
Now then, let me provide some details, and then no more on this whole
ridiculous mess from me. Yes, I did kick the larger chow in the rump. I had
tried everything else to separate them, and I feared that she would kill the
smaller chow - it was a last ditch effort, and you know what, it worked, she
let go of the smaller chow. Just a minor detail left out. I'm not advocating
what I did, I feel bad about it, but in the moment I feared for the worst and I
did what I did.
Secondly, the dogs' pen is really a small yard. I called it a small pen
because I live in the country where there are acres of land. The chows pen is
relatively small to the openess of the area, but I play catch with them and run
with them in their pen. I estimate it to be about 50 feet long and 25 feet
wide (I said 50 ft x 50 ft before, it's more like 50ft by 25ft). They are also
able to get inside the horse stable for shelter and warmth when it gets cold.
We've put alot of straw down as well as blankets - it's quite warm in the
winter. At any rate, they have room to run around. My father takes them for
walks around the woods, whereas I usually play catch with them in their pen.
About their "viciousness". These are dogs, animals for pete's sake. They bark
at strangers, and rabbitts, and cats, and neighbors dogs, that's what dogs do.
Yea, they killed my cat last year; it got into their yard. It's instinct,
smaller animals are food. That's why we keep them in their yard, unless we
take them out for walks on leashes. We take them to the vet where they behave.
They don't growl or bare their teeth or kill anything there. We get them cut
and groomed in the summer so they are cooler - no problems. I brush them in
the summer to try and keep them cooler. I spend time playing with them
everyday, as I have for the past year and more.
They play fight sometimes, they are like sisters. That one fight was TOTALLY
an isolated incident. I don't know *why* they got into it that day...that's
why I was sad, that's why I felt badly. Is this difficult to understand?
I've said it before, my dogs are fine. They are happy, they are wagging their
tails, they lick me and jump up on me when I feed them in the mornings. We are
chums, pals, buds. My sister got them as pups from her ex-boyfriend where they
were in a MUCH smaller pen and were treated poorly (not given fresh water, not
played with, not shown much attention).
If you don't believe me fine, I don't really care. If you want to judge me on
how you read my first post go ahead. That's that. Amazingly, some complete
strangers seem to think they know what's best for the dogs that *I* take care
of without ANY knowledge of the REAL situation.
Fas
brandon...@my-deja.com
> Okay, goodbye Brandon. I leave you to your lame psychologizing...
And I'll leave you to your psuedo-liberation ignorance as you pretend
to be revolutionary. I am actually very baffled as to why you can't
understand my point of view. I am also very baffled as to why you can't
simply say, "Hey, Fas, I over-reacted. I'm sorry." Instead you keep
defending your pathetic position which only makes people thinking your
crazy.
> I hope you and Nik will be very happy together: you can psychoanalyze
> and read crystal balls when you are not writing little posts about
> each other's bums.
Actually, if looking into a crystal ball is used to utilize the
imagination (rather than see the future) it is a valid form of
surrealist activity. Its no different that looking at clouds, looking
at shit, looking at sand, etc.
Nikolaus Maack
> Once a neighbor of my sister's took a kitten to the human society. My
> sister went there the next day hoping to transfer the kitten to the no-
> kill animal shelter where she (and sometimes I) volunteer. "Oh, sorry,
> that kitten was destroyed yesterday." The Human Society didn't even
> give the kitten a day before killing it.
My girlfriend, Michelle, works at the Ottawa Humane Society. Here's what
she's told me.
There are many valid reasons for putting down the kitten. A list of such
reasons might include: distemper, feline leukemia, upper repiratory
inflection, too young and no nursing moms to foster it, it might have been
anemic due to fleas, etc, etc.
No-kill shelters are nice because they get to select which animals they
take. They refuse to take problematic and unhealthy animals. So where do
they go? To the other shelters. While "kill shelters" might be seen as a
horrible menace, they provide a necessary service that other shelters
DON'T provide.
If people made sure that their animals got spayed or neutered, got their
shots regularly, and took good care of their pets, there would be no need
for the animal shelters.
Working in a shelter can get pretty traumatic, or so Michelle tells me.
Employees often disappear for months at a time on "stress leave".
brandon...@my-deja.com
> No-kill shelters are nice because they get to select which animals
> they take. They refuse to take problematic and unhealthy animals.
I guess it depends on the shelter. The one my family volunteers at has
a whole room full of FIV cats.
> While "kill shelters" might be seen as a horrible menace, they
> provide a necessary service that other shelters DON'T provide.
Of course, the slaughter of animals is such a wonderful thing. Please,
you don't need a "shelter" for that, you need a butcher shop.
Kristina
"cythera" <cyt...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8us8im$ljj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Here is a link to issues dealing with the overall subject of animal
> protection:
>
> http://www.api4animals.org/
>
> Thank you Nik for this informative post.
My my my... how quickly we forget. Wasn't it just yesterday that you were
telling Nik and Brandon to take their analysing and asses some place else --
I recall a crystal ball being mentioned as well. I think this is what I've
been thinking all along with you -- you're a vapid person who readily
insults and sways to suit your own need -- you have no integrity and
anything you say cannot be trusted.
One day everyone is your best friend, the next day you readily insult
them... this has been clearly evident from the first day you came in here.
Nothing has changed.
I find your actions regarding this whole mess you created regarding Fas'
initial posting about the dogs is really grotesque. Did you not read it --
seems to me like everything else, you hear what you want to hear. You
really don't pay attention or listen -- rational seems to have no place in
your approach to people, and sadly, it really is about what you can get out
of them... rather blatantly.
Kristina.
>
> cythera.
batding
> No-kill shelters are nice because they get to select which animals they
> horrible menace, they provide a necessary service that other shelters
> DON'T provide.
Actually, there is a no-kill shelter here who only takes those animals that
most "kill" shelters will destroy. They deliberately take the animals that
have been there too long to be adopted, the animals that have health
problems, the ones that have special needs and so on. Maybe this is a rare
type of shelter though.
> If people made sure that their animals got spayed or neutered, got their
> shots regularly, and took good care of their pets, there would be no need
> for the animal shelters.
And if people quit buying from pet stores and starting getting their pets
exclusively from shelters, eventually they'd disappear....
> Working in a shelter can get pretty traumatic, or so Michelle tells me.
> Employees often disappear for months at a time on "stress leave".
It sounds like a horribly stressful job.
batding
GOD
wrote:
Given the topic of this thread is "unreal hyperbole', I think it would be
safe to assume that this is nothing more than that. My question is -- why
would anyone trust anything posted to Usenet without having a way of
verifying the intent and veracity of the poster? For all anyone knows, you
could be pulling someone's leg. Or psychologically testing someone without
their permission or knowledge, which is exactly what I've been told Cythera
and others on this group do. So pardon anyone if they mind being a Guinea
pig without their permission. And my, my, lest we forget, how would one
feel if the shoe were on the other foot, and they themselves or someone they
cared about walked this 'trap' unknowingly. Yes, dear Kristina, cyberspace
is full of psychological operatives, all with an agenda, I'm sad to say. And
it becomes even more insidious if one can remote view the posters thoughts
as they respond. Which is what I've been told also happens. So knowing all
of that, whom do you trust?
brandon...@my-deja.com
> Actually, there is a no-kill shelter here who only takes those
> animals that most "kill" shelters will destroy. They deliberately
> take the animals that have been there too long to be adopted, the
> animals that have health problems, the ones that have special needs
> and so on. Maybe this is a rare type of shelter though.
This seems to be somewhat consistent with my experience, except the
shelter I've volunteered at seems to take whoever whenever (healthy or
not). The important thing is keeping the sick divided from the healthy.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> I think this is what I've been thinking all along with you -- you're
> a vapid person who readily insults and sways to suit your own need --
> you have no integrity and anything you say cannot be trusted.
I would agree. Just before she left the newsgroup she makes this
strange war cry for the dismantling of "friendliness" (I was baffled as
to the point, and even Nik was smart enough to laugh). The next day,
after she has been apparently put off by Dale's lack of agreement with
her grouping of the individuals here at alt.surrealism (with her,
Barrett, and Dale in "group 1"), she decides to take her leave and
sends me this warm and fuzzy apology which is very much the antithesis
of her previous anti-friendliness position. And I'm thinking, "What the
fuck?"
> One day everyone is your best friend, the next day you readily insult
> them... this has been clearly evident from the first day you came in
> here. Nothing has changed.
I don't remember when she first got here, but I always had this vague
impression that I had argued with her sometime in the past, before she
showed signs of having any knowledge of Surrealism ... I'm thinking it
dealt with pornography, dirty words, etc ... anyone remember?
Kristina
"GOD" <G...@God.God> wrote in message news:3a13f7e1...@news.erols.com...
[snip]
> whom do you trust?
I think it becomes apparent with time those who are infact sincere in
communicating openly and have a genuine respect for others... it isn't quite
enough to go all neurotic and paranoid (as I feel Cythera has) -- projecting
assumptions and then acting out on them willy -nilly (lovely quaint little
term).
What I find particularly appalling is not only that she has somewhat narrow
and fucked views regaridng Fas' dogs situation, but she took that a step
further and acted on it like she is the all seeing deity and god -- the
judge if you will... taking matters into her own hands.
Mind you I have absloutely nothing against action... however, when it's
motivated in such an ignorant manner it serves only as a sad reflection on
the inner workings of her mind. I'd say what you see is what you get. The
silliest part of all this is that she defends her actions with such a
fixation I have no other option than to think her quite out of any rational
league.
Trust -- there are many forms of it.
Kristina.
Kristina
<brandon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ut5fh$df2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Kristina wrote:
> > I think this is what I've been thinking all along with you -- you're
> > a vapid person who readily insults and sways to suit your own need --
> > you have no integrity and anything you say cannot be trusted.
>
> I would agree. Just before she left the newsgroup she makes this
> strange war cry for the dismantling of "friendliness" (I was baffled as
> to the point, and even Nik was smart enough to laugh). The next day,
> after she has been apparently put off by Dale's lack of agreement with
> her grouping of the individuals here at alt.surrealism (with her,
> Barrett, and Dale in "group 1"), she decides to take her leave and
> sends me this warm and fuzzy apology which is very much the antithesis
> of her previous anti-friendliness position. And I'm thinking, "What the
> fuck?"
What the fuck is a good way of describing it. I've had my run-ins with
Cythera and then the lovely warm glow and totally non sensical posts and
emails. It's too hard to keep up -- in plain English.
> > One day everyone is your best friend, the next day you readily insult
> > them... this has been clearly evident from the first day you came in
> > here. Nothing has changed.
>
> I don't remember when she first got here, but I always had this vague
> impression that I had argued with her sometime in the past, before she
> showed signs of having any knowledge of Surrealism ... I'm thinking it
> dealt with pornography, dirty words, etc ... anyone remember?
Not really, but then there were so many bizarre posts by Cythera when she
first got here, that it's a little too hard to keep up. If I filed every
single thing like she does, (or she seems to) perhaps I could post what
thread it came from, who said what and when and how often... but I must
admit, I don't collect posts in such a manner or look them up.
Kristina.
Parry
different allegations -- to say she is obviously well-read, has a
diversity of interests, and is independently-minded -- and add that
since her arrival to the group she, unlike many posters, recognized that
she has a lot to learn and has explored surrealism with some diligence.
Sure she has a bristled side, but that’s not uncommon. Her blind plunge
into unpleasantness was relatively recent -- I’d say about the time she
launched an undeserving assault on Young Sven and divided the group into
echelons, of course installing herself at the top like a Mary in a holy
trinity.
Kristina, you may not have been reading the group at this time, but
there was a strange period of ugliness. Sven and Nik had been playing a
game of Ping Pong when Nik’s testicle got in the way and he left. In his
absence, some of the group’s users scathed each other with unworthy
attacks. That’s that big jar on the upper shelf labeled “Bad Blood,”
right beside the one labeled “Bad Brain.” Brandon, Cythera and Dale all
quit, leaving Nik’s infantile obsession about them without legs. Cythera
eventually made a re-entry with some flames -- calling the group
“retarded” and such (Dale did much the same) -- and displayed a notable
mean-mindedness towards John Q. Adams III. Then came the deal with Fas,
an object lesson in how not to handle a delicate situation. Now John’s
talking about taking a holiday from the group, perhaps to vacation in
“alt.bahamas” and work on his tan.
I know nothing of the private wars Cythera has had with you or Brandon
or John. I’ve also wondered if there was a streak of opportunism in her,
perhaps connected to her express desire to make a career of writing. In
any case, I would extend her the benefit of my doubts and assume her
current jerk behaviour is attributable to factors of which I’m ignorant.
Possibly she’ll figure out that she should try to get along with people
with whom she has every reason to get along.
-- Parry
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
Kristina
"Parry" <pa...@zxOMITmail.com> wrote in message
news:3A1248...@zxOMITmail.com...
Parry,
I really do respect your thoughts here and your words -- I can't however,
agree.
This in itself is no big drama as life would be dull if we all thought
Cythera's presence less than desirable.
> In defense of Cythera, I'll first repeat an earlier defense to entirely
> different allegations -- to say she is obviously well-read, has a
> diversity of interests, and is independently-minded -- and add that
> since her arrival to the group she, unlike many posters, recognized that
> she has a lot to learn and has explored surrealism with some diligence.
Like I said, I respect your views, however I don't see what being well-read
or having a diversity in interests has to do with whether or not one is self
serving and prone to attacks of "chronic multiple personality" (my analysis
of Cythera, and as far as I'm willing to do in terms of my energy).
Recognising you have a way to go doesn't mean squat -- there is such a thing
as over justification, and in my view and the display Cythera has put forth
here: that's esentially where she is at.
She may well think she's open to learning, but what is it that she IS
learning. Yes, quite frankly, I question her ability to actually filter to
any depth. I question her motivations and reason for being here in the
first place. Exploring surrealism with diligence -- again, means absolutely
nothing to me. I'm not keen on any overt praise given (and I'm not saying
this is what you're expressing) to one who diligently follows anything --
does it make one a surrealist, certainly not. Life would be so simple if
this were the case, and Cythera would probably have an olympic medal by now.
> Sure she has a bristled side, but that's not uncommon. Her blind plunge
> into unpleasantness was relatively recent -- I'd say about the time she
> launched an undeserving assault on Young Sven and divided the group into
> echelons, of course installing herself at the top like a Mary in a holy
> trinity.
Her plunge into unpleasantness was alot earlier than recent. It was at the
very beginning when she first entered this forum -- her posts were totally
ridiculous, and when she insulted everyone and pissed them off she would
proceed to apologise, and again, in her usual condescending and inanely
pretentious way go about making little sense, and more insult. Were it
recent, I may be somewhat more understanding -- I doubt it, perhaps more
patient.
> Kristina, you may not have been reading the group at this time, but
> there was a strange period of ugliness. Sven and Nik had been playing a
> game of Ping Pong when Nik's testicle got in the way and he left. In his
> absence, some of the group's users scathed each other with unworthy
> attacks. That's that big jar on the upper shelf labeled "Bad Blood,"
> right beside the one labeled "Bad Brain." Brandon, Cythera and Dale all
> quit, leaving Nik's infantile obsession about them without legs. Cythera
> eventually made a re-entry with some flames -- calling the group
> "retarded" and such (Dale did much the same) -- and displayed a notable
> mean-mindedness towards John Q. Adams III.
I missed all of this and thankfully so. What I did read was something about
the different camps, suggested by Cythera. The first camp being her, Dale
and Barrett. Her ultimate success in life, no doubt. This should please
her greatly, and if she finds the group really that retarded, why bother.
Same with anyone else.
Then came the deal with Fas,
> an object lesson in how not to handle a delicate situation. Now John's
> talking about taking a holiday from the group, perhaps to vacation in
> "alt.bahamas" and work on his tan.
And seriously who would blame him?
> I know nothing of the private wars Cythera has had with you or Brandon
> or John.
They are not private wars, just history with the groups posting. I'm not
going to speak for Brandon or John, they can address any issues if they see
them fit, but I don't trust Cythera, and bottom line is, I do find her
shallow and vapid and a hypocrite with double standards, self serving,
moralistic, and most recently out to save the whole of Noah's fucking ark.
I've also wondered if there was a streak of opportunism in her,
> perhaps connected to her express desire to make a career of writing. In
> any case, I would extend her the benefit of my doubts and assume her
> current jerk behaviour is attributable to factors of which I'm ignorant.
That is nice of you, and I'm being totally sincere when I say that. I
sadly, don't have the stomach acid to take such drivel from her, not
anymore.
> Possibly she'll figure out that she should try to get along with people
> with whom she has every reason to get along.
And maybe Everest will come and visit me tomorrow too.
I liked your post Parry.
Kristina.
> -- Parry
God
wrote:
>
>"GOD" <G...@God.God> wrote in message news:3a13f7e1...@news.erols.com...
>
>[snip]
>
>
>> whom do you trust?
>
>I think it becomes apparent with time those who are infact sincere in
>communicating openly and have a genuine respect for others... it isn't quite
>enough to go all neurotic and paranoid (as I feel Cythera has) -- projecting
>assumptions and then acting out on them willy -nilly (lovely quaint little
>term).
Well, perhaps given Usenet is the only way Cythera can communicate, prehaps
projecting assumptions is a way Cythera learns. Tho, I have it on good
authority that Cythera can be a bit squirrley at times, and mean in fact.
Heck, she/he/it can't decide what gender to be.
>What I find particularly appalling is not only that she has somewhat narrow
>and fucked views regaridng Fas' dogs situation, but she took that a step
>further and acted on it like she is the all seeing deity and god -- the
>judge if you will... taking matters into her own hands.
There's always a higher level of understanding, if people and others are
willing to learn and share and forgive.
>Mind you I have absloutely nothing against action... however, when it's
>motivated in such an ignorant manner it serves only as a sad reflection on
>the inner workings of her mind. I'd say what you see is what you get. The
>silliest part of all this is that she defends her actions with such a
>fixation I have no other option than to think her quite out of any rational
>league.
Yep, "she's" a bit squirrley, but perhaps she'll learn and not be so
authoratative and realize that she appears irrational to others, and that of
course is part of learning. Even the gods don't know everything. <G>
>Trust -- there are many forms of it.
>Kristina.
United we stand. Divided we fall. There's ALWAYS a higher level of
understanding, if we seek it -- but we must cooperate with each other.
Humans are compassionate beings if shown compassion.
Nikolaus Maack
> How callous.
You've been acting out of short-sightedness lately. You decided to judge
Fas, without any real evidence, and sic'd the authorities on him. Then
when many people -- I have yet to hear of ANYONE siding with you --
pointed out you were in error, you judged them too. While it makes for an
entertaining soap opera, I feel I must at least feign interrupting its
progress.
I sense a vicious cycle in your life that you probably started the day you
were born.
1) Do something nasty.
2) People get mad because it's nasty.
3) You don't take responsibility for the first action and do something
more nasty.
4) People get angrier with you.
5) And so on.
Break the cycle. Your time would be spent so much more efficiently if you
practiced a "live and let live" philosophy. If you didn't go around
judging others as lacking, tolerating their foibles and giving them the
benefit of the doubt, perhaps you'd find your life a tad more peaceful and
plentiful.
You'll note this is the same philosophy that I've been trying to get those
"automatic surrealists" to swallow. Unfortunately they're too stupid and
infantile to recognize that there's room for more than one brand of
surrealism under the sun.
Because you are so lacking a sense of humour, allow me to explain to you
that the previous paragraph was a joke.
And so was the paragraph previous to this one.
Nik
PS.
I'm gainfully employed now, so you should probably take advantage of my
counsel while I still have the time to share it with you. You may
congratulate my new source of income at your convenience. Flowers will
suffice, as chocolates make me gassy.
PPS.
I always write in such a pretentious tone of voice after watching a Star
Trek episode that features 'Q'.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> She may well think she's open to learning, but what is it that she IS
> learning. Yes, quite frankly, I question her ability to actually
> filter to any depth. I question her motivations and reason for being
> Barrett ... I don't trust Cythera, and bottom line is, I do find her
> shallow and vapid and a hypocrite with double standards, self
> serving, moralistic, and most recently out to save the whole of
> Noah's fucking ark.
I question if she is actually learning also. Far to often she seems to
be simply echoing Barrett or Dale. Possibly she has taken into that
false belief, that Nik held most reciently, that Barrett is somehow the
captain of this aeroplane. I would much rather hear her define
Surrealism on her own terms than repost Barrett's book of definitions.
She might as well be quoting Breton. It proves nothing about her
understanding of Surrealism. I felt that her hostility towards the
Chicago Group was also an extension of this idolizing of Barrett (since
he has had his problems communicating with them). And I almost fell out
of my seat laughing when she stating something like: "And I'm assuming
you DO know something about enactive cognition?" Like studying
Enactivism (and following Barrett's train of thought) is a requirement.
Please! Perhaps this is due to the "steak of opportunism" that Parry
spoke of. She wants to get ahead, to become the servents of who she
sees as "the big boys" (Barrett and Dale). What it comes down to is
that I agree with Kristina, I don't trust her. Not one bit.
Paul Orsi
You have spoken very beautifully on topic of surrealism, but the mere
mention of the POLICE is abuse to my reading eyes.
In all due respect for animals, as I recall some surrealist films used
animals in uncanny ways not to mention certain voodoo practices. Perhaps i
should stay apart from this but the POLICE f---off.
cythera wrote:
> The Unreal Hyperbole of Cythera - please comment??
>
> Hello. Speaking of hyperbole: this is not identical to what I sent
> the police or the SPCA. One difference is that I did not (and would
> not have) called you a creep in what was essentially business
> correspondence; you may rest assured on that, or ask to read the
> reports, etc. --
>
> I sent this particular piece somewhere else entirely -- as you have
> to already know.
>
> And you are so full of it to go on as if you are a victim or as if
> this was about your kicking your dog (now you are adding the location
> -- in the rump, etc. You have extrapolated this into something talk
> about horse trainers -- completely unrelated.
> What a crybaby for pity sake. You did what you did now take your
> lumps.
>
> cythera.
>
> In article <20001112164125...@ng-cp1.aol.com>,
> fasc...@aol.com (Fascinan) wrote:
> > Cythera:
> >
> > <<Hi.
> >
> > I have contacted this abuser's local SPCA and police department, but
> would like
> > to do more.
> >
> > And I decided to ask if some of you would complain to them too:
> >
> > 1.
> > The Richmond, Va. SPCA.
> >
> > To: Robin Robertson Starr,
> > Executive Director
> > http://www.richmondspca.org/
> >
> > Phone: 804/643-6785
> > Fax: 804/644-8327
> >
> > 2.
> > The Richmond, Va. Police.
> > Colonel Jerry A Oliver, Richmond Police Chief.
> > Oliv...@ci.richmond.va.us
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cythera.
> >
> > ---
> > I read the following on Usenet.
> >
> > By Corey Tez, who writes as "Fasc...@aol.com".
> >
> > http://x54.deja.com/threadmsg_if.xp?thitnum=1&AN=684667690.1&mhitnum
> > =1&CONTEXT=972630164.599130113
> >
> > He has written elsewhere as Cornelius Hatchaven.
> >
> > He has written that he lives in the country west of Richmond.
> >
> > Forum: alt.surrealism
> > Thread: Warring Angels
> > Message 2 of 33
> >
> > I have two chows, well they are my sister's really. She just left
> them in the
> > small pen out back here because she has no room for them in her new
> house. They
> > are lovable enough, but I can't let them out because they kill just
> about
> > anything smaller than them.
> >
> > (Note: He doesn't let the dogs out of a small cage!)
> >
> > Last year my cat got in their pen and they ripped her apart - it was
> rather
> > sad.
> >
> > Today, they are fighting like they usually do, but I realize that it
> is not the
> > usual play fighting - they are ripping at eachother's throats, and
> bloody at
> > that. The older chow has taken care of the younger as a mother would
> for years
> > now, what has happened now that they are at odds? I couldn't separate
> them. I
> > sprayed them with the hose, yelled, jumped up and down....they kept
> fighting
> > harder. I lept in a kicked the larger chow hard because I thought she
> was going
> > to kill the smaller one. They didnt stop. After 10 minutes or so they
> stopped.
> > They were bloody, and my heart sank because I had kicked my dog in
> the heat of
> > battle (which for me was to separate them). Later on today I took
> them some
> > hamburger, and the one I kicked hid in the corner of the pen - never
> before
> > have I seen this behaviour. Finally, she came up and ate the peace
> offering.
> > She still hasn't licked me though.
> >
> > (This man has very likely injured the animal, maybe fatally.)
> >
> > Weird, last night I hit a deer (a large buck) at 55mph. Slammed the
> poor bugger
> > just trying to cross the road. My car was smashed good, air bags
> popped and
> > all. I'm killing deer and kicking my dog - what a shitty weekend.
> >
> > Fas
> > ---
> >
> > Can you believe this creep?!>>>
> >
> > I, for one, can't believe your heinous claim. From my one post you
> have cut
> > and pasted me into some horrible projection of your own paranoia. I
> think you
> > are completely off your rocker Cythera. Do you think I tried to hit
> a deer?
> > Do you think I enjoyed it or something? You responded calling me an
> ignorant
> > shit that deserved to hit the deer. You have NO idea of the context
> of any of
> > these situations aside from my one, vague post. You have interferred
> in the
> > life of an absolute stranger. Just think, if by some impossible
> stretch of the
> > imagination, the chows (which are perfectly healthy and happy) are
> taken by the
> > SPCA, my 3 year old niece who comes over to play with these "killer
> chows"
> > would probably not like it very much. Nor would my sister - they are
> her dogs.
> > Nor would my parents or my brother. The ONLY reason that I kicked
> my dog's
> > rump, and, of course, the ONLY time that it has happened was a last
> attempt to
> > separate them from a fight they had - in a period of 3 or more years
> this is
> > the only serious time they have fought. Horse trainers hit their
> horses noses
> > to break the animals. Why don't you report every single horse owner
> on the
> > planet to their respective SPCAs Cythera, maybe the world would be a
> better
> > place.
> >
> > I can only hope that whoever else has read your egregious slurs
> against me has
> > the common sense to know that I'm a good person who treats his
> animals well,
> > but was in a very bad circumstance, hence wrote about it in a
> newsgroup because
> > I felt badly about that circumstance. And you call the authorities,
> painting
> > me as a "creep" - totally ridiculous, COMPLETELY unwarranted.
> >
> > Fas
Kristina
<brandon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8uv733$3mk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Kristina wrote:
> > She may well think she's open to learning, but what is it that she IS
> > learning. Yes, quite frankly, I question her ability to actually
> > filter to any depth. I question her motivations and reason for being
> > Barrett ... I don't trust Cythera, and bottom line is, I do find her
> > shallow and vapid and a hypocrite with double standards, self
> > serving, moralistic, and most recently out to save the whole of
> > Noah's fucking ark.
>
> be simply echoing Barrett or Dale. Possibly she has taken into that
> false belief, that Nik held most reciently, that Barrett is somehow the
> captain of this aeroplane. I would much rather hear her define
> Surrealism on her own terms than repost Barrett's book of definitions.
> She might as well be quoting Breton. It proves nothing about her
> understanding of Surrealism. I felt that her hostility towards the
> Chicago Group was also an extension of this idolizing of Barrett (since
> he has had his problems communicating with them). And I almost fell out
> of my seat laughing when she stating something like: "And I'm assuming
> you DO know something about enactive cognition?" Like studying
> Enactivism (and following Barrett's train of thought) is a requirement.
> Please! Perhaps this is due to the "steak of opportunism" that Parry
> spoke of. She wants to get ahead, to become the servents of who she
> sees as "the big boys" (Barrett and Dale). What it comes down to is
> that I agree with Kristina, I don't trust her. Not one bit.
Thanks Brandon -- these have been my observations for ages now. It's nice to
hear I'm not the only one that sees Cythera as little more than a sounding
horn for Dale and Barrett (something she has chosen). I feel she most
likely has no thought process of her own.
Kristina.
Kristina
"God" <G...@god.god> wrote in message news:3a129ac1...@news.erols.com...
news:3a13f7e1...@news.erols.com...
Hello God,
(I've always wanted to say that).
> United we stand. Divided we fall. There's ALWAYS a higher level of
> understanding, if we seek it -- but we must cooperate with each other.
> Humans are compassionate beings if shown compassion.
I don't have any problem agreeing with the above, but another aspect of
being human is we can be stubborn and unwilling, hold firm views which are
sarcred perhaps to who we are -- they are an identifying factor of our
uniqueness. Within that wide area, confusion and disagreement are bound to
occur at one time or another.
Talking about compassion... well, I'd like to say I agree with the above,
but being nice doesn't quite mean others will reciprocate, as in being
compassionate also holds no guarantees in life. Granted, if we are more
flexible and respecting of the diversity of cultural, religious, political
etc views that people have -- more can be achieved. But, to tell you the
truth -- it's basic dogma and irresponsible, ignorant action that grinds my
teeth in the middle of the night. Cythera's somewhat bland and basic
madness with this whole situation is just another example of that which I
despise. Her continual defense of it is atrocious. She is no different to a
politican enforcing a rule for the "good of all concerned" without really
doing her research. It's like a demented popularity campaign she's on...
bizarre!
Kristina.
Kristina
> How callous.
I see you've finally come into your own -- yes, you are callous Cythera.
Kristina.
Dale Houstman
<brandon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ut5fh$df2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
vapid, but there is ambivalent clinging and there is "dogmatic rigidity."
You have spent a lot of your time here spouting aphoristic responses (rather
sub-Pavlovian) echoing the usual surrealist line with little or no
personality to the voicing. Each time you were forced to move upon your own
(rather than spewing scripture) you seemed to falter, to lose cognitive
acuity. I am glad - of course - that you have
finally found a subject that you can expound at length upon; someone else's
failings.
It does seem however that the only reason that you haven't said as many
stupid things as you are accusing cythera of saying is because you've been
very careful to say almost nothing at all. I would stand on the side of
floundering hysteria before I would rally to the flag of dogmatic
lunkheadedness any day.
dmh
Nikolaus Maack
>> How callous.
>
> I see you've finally come into your own -- yes, you are callous Cythera.
Kristina has decided to bring the totality of surrealist thought to bear
upon an argument, and thus end it forever. The mighty surrealist
stretches her vast wings, beats them against the sky, causing bizarre
weather patterns to form in Venezuela. After tapping into all her
creative powers, punching into her spontaneity, finding her inner essence,
Kristina opens her mouth and lets flow the one perfect thought she
possesses. And that thought is...
"I KNOW YOU ARE, BUT WHAT AM I?"
Having released this powerful phrase out into the world, satisfied that
she has conquered her foe and made the world a better place, she collapses
back on to the earth, wraps her wings around herself for comfort, and
sleeps for the entire weekend. She dreams about puppies in cages too
small, choking on their own excrement and urine, and she giggles.
Nik
Nikolaus Maack
> Each time you were forced to move upon your own
> (rather than spewing scripture) you seemed to falter, to lose cognitive
> acuity. I am glad - of course - that you have finally found a subject
> that you can expound at length upon; someone else's failings.
Uh, Dale -- the court would like to take this opportunity to remind you
that, none too distant in the past, you were pronouncing this newsgroup to
be as shallow as a pixie's thimble, and as ripe as a cheese made from
fermented toadstools. In other words, the sin you're saying sucks is a
sin you seriously seem to savour.
In other words...
Flies love their shit and bees love their honey,
a comic loves wit; a banker, money.
What do our local surrealists love?
To knock people down with a single shove.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> You have spent a lot of your time here spouting aphoristic responses
> (rather sub-Pavlovian) echoing the usual surrealist line with little
> or no personality to the voicing.
I'm not so sure about this. Is there a surrealist aphorism databank
that I'm dipping into? Sometimes I don't have the patience to ramble
on, and if that is dishartening to dear old Dale, well, so be it.
> Each time you were forced to move upon your own (rather than spewing
> scripture) you seemed to falter, to lose cognitive acuity.
We seemed to have one disagreement which you didn't even understand.
Now that "one" has evolved into "each time.."?
> It does seem however that the only reason that you haven't said as
> many stupid things as you are accusing cythera of saying is because
> you've been very careful to say almost nothing at all.
Or very lazy. There's just so many time you can say, "Oh, let me
explain ..."
> I would stand on the side of floundering hysteria before I would
> rally to the flag of dogmatic lunkheadedness any day.
That's your choice, and not a surprise, given your personality.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> How did it go again...
***
Subject: Please accept my (Cythera's) Apology for being insensitive to
your Feelings.
Hi, the subject line says it all. I was out of line--I am very
stressed out
over my father's death.
I'm sorry, Brandon. Take care, Cythera. (I'm history at
alt.surrealism :).
***
One thing I don't like is when someone is ranting and raving about how
bad "friendliness" is, and then goes out of their way to be "friendly."
The subject line was really rather gooy. You should believe in what you
say. I do.
> Regarding my posts of last year: I had untreated depression. In
> retrospect, it seems that must have been _very obvious_.
> Such people make good targets I suppose.
Now you're assuming that we noticed your "depression" which of course
makes us the bad guy for not having sympathy. Shit. Nik is the only one
here that I know of who has any kind of psychology background---blame
him for not noticing your depression!!!
Besides, that's an easy out. It isn't a good excuse no matter what you
say. What if I told Dale, "Hey, forget that argument! I was depressed!"
or howled over to Nik, "Your absolutely right! Surrealism can be
whatever I want it to be! I'm sorry, I was depressed." Would that fly?
I don't think so. Or perhaps I'm just spouting out the usually dogma.
Why don't you try this one: "Hey Fas, sorry I called the cops on ya. I
was depressed."
Shit. Shit. Shit.
Kristina
> In article <8ut5fh$df2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> brandon...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > she [...] sends me this warm and fuzzy apology [...]
>
> How did it go again...
>
> father."
Yes? and this is supposed to mean anything? please... get off the "I'm a
victim of my emotions" box.
>
> (I may be remembering it slightly incorrectly. Want to repost that
> email?).
Ohhh this sounds so dreadfully familar -- I wish I had kept all your posts
to show just how many times you bring this line up.
>
>
> Regarding my posts of last year: I had untreated depression. In
> retrospect, it seems that must have been _very obvious_.
And again...okay, even if this is true -- what is your excuse THIS year?
What was obvcious then and remiains so now is that you are totally
ridiculous and without any real recognition of responsibility for action --
you have no concept of accepting the consequences of your own voice -- oh
wait, that's right, you'd rather just regurgiatate everything that Dale and
Barrett, and every book on surrelaism talks about... sigh.
I'd suggest, seeing as you have so much on your plate, and your depression
is still going unmedicated and untreated, you go away somewhere and fic
yourself up -- I for one am not ready to excuse you from the
responsibilities of being alive. Get it together, and stop being such a
dork.
Kristina.
> Such people make good targets I suppose.
>
> cythera.
Kristina
> > Yes? and this is supposed to mean anything?
>
> It does to my family and me. It is not supposed to mean anything to
> you.
You use the death of your father as an excuse and a play for sympathy from
people -- just as you do with your depression (if it really even exists --
and seeing as I don't trust you, I find that questionable). There is a
massive difference to expressing yourself and leaving yourself open and
manipulating people to suit your own egotistical and self centred needs --
which is what you do, quite blandly and without knowledge perhaps. This
does not surprise me, but your idiocy and lack of self sense and awareness
is your problem. I find it rather infantile and crass, to say the least. I
really don't give a shit if your dad died -- not in the sense that it
justifies your irresponsible behaviour and then used as an exucse for it.
>
> [...]
>
> > I'd suggest, seeing as you have so much on your plate,
>
> Hmmm.
>
> > and your depression is still going unmedicated and untreated,
>
> Incorrect, as already implied.
Well, what would you blame as being the madness behind this whole Fas' dogs
obsession? Did someone tie you up and blow it out of proportion for you?
Did someone force you to be totally idiotic and totally authoritarian and
ignorant over it? Hmmmm? Did your cat die that day? Your tea bag fall
apart? Which of these events will you blame for that behaviour? Is it
becuase you are Jewish? Can't you recongise the relevance of the attention
placed on that madness of yours? Sadly, no -- you are as I said, without
feeling -- cold and callous and will use anything to your benefit,
irrespective of the cost to others. And you call yourself a surrealist?
Truly -- you are, and I do not say this lightly, an abomination to
surrealism.
> > you go away somewhere and fic yourself up --
>
> > I for one am not ready to excuse you from the responsibilities of
> > being alive.
>
> You are mistaken if you think I want anything from you. And if I
> were looking for "excuses from the responsibilities of being alive",
> or were afraid of my life -- past and present, and likewise into the
> future -- I wouldn't have written such personal information about
> myself and especially about my father for you and Brandon and
> everyone else with some need or desire similar to yours to take
> little hits at.
You really are stupid arn't you! I suspected it sometime ago... but really,
you think life is so basic? Because you reveal so much you are sincere and
with good intent? You then proceed to point it out? Hello!!! Please... I
don't trust you, I've read many of your words and their manipulations
within... you're a liar, and the context of your "expressions" is always as
some form of excuse for what you consider "being picked on". It's like
someone saying "I was run over by a bus" sorry I was such a bitch and out of
line towards you... and you then proceed to defend this shallow point with
such conviction it is somewhat less than astounding.
Just read the above you have written, and think about how you come across --
you want sympathy and the focus shifted from what is really going on -- I
will not acquiesce to such pitiful attempts for attention. In my mind,
you're cold and sterile, quoting text book upon text book, using images
from other people, words from other people, and when it comes to being
defensive and needing a crutch? What do you come up with? The death of
your father, how friggin obvious it should have been you suffered
depression... fuck me dead! You have an excuse for every one of your
actions that is less than pleasing don't you. I can't help but laugh with
this realisation. Compassion went out the window a long time ago. I can be
intolerant and truth be known that is where it is at for me here with you.
> It is actually quite freeing to leave yourself this open. I suggest
> that you try it.
I have no problems with it -- I've never been one to express myself any
other way than directly from a personal perspective. I don't quote like you
do. you;ll analyse the shit out of every living moment until it is flaccid
and without any surprise or moving quality -- you kill everything you get
your hands on... I find this terribly sad actually.
> There isn't anything that you or anyone else I can think of (including
> myself) can say or think that will to deter me from what I intend to
> accomplish.
Go ahead -- you've deluded yourself this long with your supposed
magnificence, please carry on... with whichever personality you so desire it
with too. You might find this surprising, but you're just another person
cythera, and unfortunately for me, you are one such person I have no respect
for. So... whatever you say will be treated with nothing but scepticism.
> So say what you want; suck it dry; I don't feel any need to stop
> you, or Brandon etc. to protect a Usenet "image", of all things. That
> is laughable.
Protect usernet image? What planet are you from? I speak what I think till
I bore of the subject and then move on -- your words irritate me mildly at
the present time, and I find them somewhat amusing -- it's interesting to
see that which I've thought about you for such a long time unfold of your
own accord. Looks like my intuition/instinct about people is not so bad
afterall. For this revelation and learning experience, I must thank you.
However, when one learns all there is with one subject, you move on... I
apologise but I won't be able to indulge you for much longer here. Who will
you speak to then? You really have nothing to offer me. I say that
honestly. And seeing as that is of no consequence to you -- it is no ones
loss. Call me arrogant if it pleases you -- that may be true, it may also
mean I am very discriminating.
> And I'll go away if and when I'm ready.
Do as you please... it's of no importance to me.
> > Get it together, and stop being such a dork.
>
> Why don't _you_. Try to guess how obsessive you look with all these
> posts. Do you want to comment on my poems and critiques on
> alt.poetry.comments? Why not, if this is not enough for you -- be my
> guest.
I read your poem tonight, it didn't stir me in the slightest. That is my
honest opinion, all other things aside, I did not like it. Lacking any
surprise or feel. You have no voice of your own -- you may infact be trying
to find one sincerely, but the thought processes you currently have, I
personally find offensive. In your poetry and otherwise. We all seek
something however, maybe you'll find it.
As for looking obsessive, well, what can I say. It's been kind of fun.
> I think this stuff is beneath you.
Yes... You may be right. If that's the case, I doubt your effotrs have been
anymore gleaming. At LEAST I speak honestly and without any need for
recognition from you or anyone that reads this group or contributes to it --
unlike you sucking every little morsel of Dale and Barrettt it is unbearable
to see. This is my missive to you and the last one you'll ever read in any
reference or context to your existence. This you can be assured of -- so
go, sleep and be peaceful.
--
k
s
> cythera.
Nikolaus Maack
They met on a stage, in a theatre full of people tied to chairs.
Kristina:
> You use the death of your father as an excuse and a play for sympathy from
> people -- just as you do with your depression (if it really even exists --
> and seeing as I don't trust you, I find that questionable).
Without preamble, Kristina slipped on the brass-knucles and punched
Cythera in the face. There was a dull crunch of bone breaking. Maybe a
cheekbone, perhaps a jaw. Cythera fell to her knees, clutching at her
right eye. The pain was excrutiating. She couldn't even make a sound, it
hurt so much. Blood dripped through her fingers on to the stage floor.
> There is a
> massive difference to expressing yourself and leaving yourself open and
> manipulating people to suit your own egotistical and self centred needs --
> which is what you do, quite blandly and without knowledge perhaps.
Taking advantage of her sitting there stunned, Kristina delivered a fierce
kick to the woman's ribs. The steel-toed boot broke through Cythera's
side as though she were a pumpkin full of blood. The side of Cythera's
blouse burst into crimson. Some sound gurgled deep in Cythera's throat,
but didn't make it out into the air.
> This
> does not surprise me, but your idiocy and lack of self sense and awareness
> is your problem.
Not yet satisfied, Kristina dragged Cythera to her feet, pulling her up by
a fistful of hair.
> I
> really don't give a shit if your dad died -- not in the sense that it
> justifies your irresponsible behaviour and then used as an exucse for it.
Holding on to her victim by the back of the neck, Kristina slammed her
fist repeatedly into Cythera's face. Over and over again the
brass-knuckles connected with the woman's nose. Blood sprayed all over
Kristina's fist, painting her arm red up to the elbow.
> Sadly, no -- you are as I said, without
> feeling -- cold and callous and will use anything to your benefit,
> irrespective of the cost to others. And you call yourself a surrealist?
> Truly -- you are, and I do not say this lightly, an abomination to
> surrealism.
Kristina let go of Cythera, and laughed as the woman staggered away,
desperate to escape. Practically blind with pain and the blood in her
eyes, she stumbled into the back wall of the stage, and fell backwards on
to the floor, landing with a boom. She curled up into a ball, trying to
hide from the pain that was coming from inside her own body.
> You really are stupid arn't you! I suspected it sometime ago... but really,
> you think life is so basic? Because you reveal so much you are sincere and
> with good intent? You then proceed to point it out? Hello!!!
But Kristina wasn't quite finished yet. She pulled a knife out of a
holster at her belt and admired it. The blade shone in the bright
stage lights. Kristina displayed her knife with pride to the crowd before
her. The gagged and bound audience had no choice but to watch.
Then, with a sneer of pleasure, Kristina spun around, ran over to Cythera,
and plunged the knife into her side. A spout of crimson splased on to the
floor, and Cythera let out a scream of pain. The shrill cry fluttered
throughout the audience, a tiny frightened bird, desperate to escape.
Cythera's trembling hands reached for where the knife had stuck her, but
Kristina pulled the blade out, and held it up high for a long,
excrutiating moment.
> Please... I
> don't trust you, I've read many of your words and their manipulations
> within... you're a liar, and the context of your "expressions" is always as
> some form of excuse for what you consider "being picked on". It's like
> someone saying "I was run over by a bus" sorry I was such a bitch and out of
> line towards you... and you then proceed to defend this shallow point with
> such conviction it is somewhat less than astounding.
Now Kristina was ready for the finale. In a frenzy that was almost
sexual, she plunged the blade into her victim again and again. Cythera
writhed in pain, lying on her back, hands held up defensively to stop the
blows. She tried to struggle with the knife, but already weak from
bloodloss all she managed to do was get cuts and wounds on her arms and
hands.
> Just read the above you have written, and think about how you come across --
> you want sympathy and the focus shifted from what is really going on -- I
> will not acquiesce to such pitiful attempts for attention.
Kristina ignored the screams, stabbing again and again, laughing as the
warm, wet gore sprayed into her face. She thought she might cum -- the
feelings rushing through her were that good, that exciting. Death was
exciting. Killing was better than sex.
> In my mind,
> you're cold and sterile, quoting text book upon text book, using images
> from other people, words from other people, and when it comes to being
> defensive and needing a crutch? What do you come up with? The death of
> your father, how friggin obvious it should have been you suffered
> depression... fuck me dead!
As the body beneath her stopped responding, Kristina stopped stabbing.
Finally Cythera let out one last moan, and lay still. Her killer paused
for a moment, like an artist considering a painting she's working on, then
stood up and moved away from the body. The knife was left stuck in one of
Cythera's eye-sockets, like an obscenely erect cock slathered in blood.
Cythera's handbag was lying on the floor. Kristina picked it up and
started rummaging through it. There was no wallet, no money. Just a
notebook inside. She flipped through it, uninterested by what she saw.
> I read your poem tonight, it didn't stir me in the slightest. That is my
> honest opinion, all other things aside, I did not like it. Lacking any
> surprise or feel. You have no voice of your own -- you may infact be trying
> to find one sincerely, but the thought processes you currently have, I
> personally find offensive. In your poetry and otherwise. We all seek
> something however, maybe you'll find it.
Kristina tossed the notebook to one side, shaking her head. She laughed
again, and took one last look at the corpse she'd made. Cythera's body
looked small and childlike now, spattered with red. A tiny scarecrow that
was alive for a little while, now dead.
> At LEAST I speak honestly and without any need for
> recognition from you or anyone that reads this group or contributes to it --
> unlike you sucking every little morsel of Dale and Barrettt it is unbearable
> to see. This is my missive to you and the last one you'll ever read in any
> reference or context to your existence. This you can be assured of -- so
> go, sleep and be peaceful.
Kristina gave a bow to the audience and walked off stage.
Ushers slipped into the crowd and started untying the gags, releasing the
manacled hands, slipping ropes off tied feet. The members of the audience
flexed their wrists, rubbed at their jaws, not making eye-contact with one
another, not looking at the stage.
Slowly, mercifully, a curtain fell, hiding the body from sight.
Sven
violence that we like. This is just like fight club, man. It's got a whole
kinda raw and visceral feel to it. Yeah.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> They met on a stage, in a theatre full of people tied to chairs ...
From stand-up comedian to sports commentator. You really are at your
best when you're lampooning an actual event (or e-event).
Besides, I like violence.
brandon...@my-deja.com
> Well I can't think of anything else to tell you about me, but this
> should keep you going for awhile. Why don't you write a poem about
> me or something -- add a new dimension.
(I'm sorry folks, I originally wasn't going to respond, but I'm in the
mood ...)
If I wrote a poem about YOU then I would be consciously premeditating
the outcome of that poem. Wouldn't that sort of be counter to the
Surrealist Project? Is this how you usually write poems?
Do you only hold your "Surrealist positions" when at alt.surrealism and
simply turn into the typical bourgeious poet at alt.poetry.comments
posting poems that are somehow supposed to represent your "depression"?
Do you really believe in the power of the non-conscious image, in the
alchemy of the word (by the way Dale, does that count as dogma?), or
are you just bluffing?
brandon...@my-deja.com
> ... simply turn into the typical bourgeious poet at
> alt.poetry.comments ...
I guess I was right:
"I think that if you could change L1-2 (or maybe just L2) so as to vary
the subject-verb-object construction that runs through the entire first
stanza, you could draw your readers in a little more."
(Cythera critiqing a poem at alt.arts.poetry.comments)
elag
>
> Nikolaus Maack wrote:
> > They met on a stage, in a theatre full of people tied to chairs ...
>
> From stand-up comedian to sports commentator. You really are at your
> best when you're lampooning an actual event (or e-event).
>
> Besides, I like violence.
If you post your address I'd be more than happy to send a couple of
thugs over to cave in your ribs with their steel toed boots.
We aim to please.