Humpty dumpty
RegForte
the morning. I have a thing for performance longboards.
So me and a buddy had just made it to the outside. The swell
period had picked up from the morning, around 16 secs.
Low tide, and the outside waves were doing the jaws
thing. Fat-ass guillotine waves. Not that much height, not
at all, but thick lipped and really, really fast breaking.
ZAP. Turtle rolled - the board took it, not me. I came up
with sheets of fiber glass in my hands.
Arrrrgh. I didn't even get one ride out of the thing. I knew I
should have turned and burned as soon I made it out. The first wave
going by looked sweeeeeet but I thought I'd rest a minute. Barely
a minute later, uh oh, heads up, OUTSIDE.
She's on the operating table in the garage and won't be back
up for awhile. The repair will take some time and a depressing
amount of materials. With a perf LB you really need the rocker
perfect so ain't gonna rush. I've had so many snaps it's time
to fashion myself some sort of jig.
--
Reg
Andy
ouch painful...
RegForte
> ouch painful...
For the board, for sure. The damage even formed a sort of frowny
face pattern :(
Thanks to some excellent info from the likes of doc et al over on
sways, I think it's looking good. The resin is taking forever to
firm up though. Damn it's cold.
I keep hearing about boards that actually ride better after
a snap. The phoenix shall rise from the ashes.
--
Reg
Andy
> Andy wrote:
> For the board, for sure. The damage even formed a sort of frowny
> face pattern :(
>
> Thanks to some excellent info from the likes of doc et al over on
> sways, I think it's looking good. The resin is taking forever to
> firm up though. Damn it's cold.
>
> I keep hearing about boards that actually ride better after
> a snap. The phoenix shall rise from the ashes.
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Did you use the wood flanking the stringer method on Sways (some guy
from Spain?? Nero or something)? It looks like it would be easier to
line up the board this way as opposed to dowels or just adding resin/
filler to the snap.
I did sort of the same thing during a big swell years ago, made it
outside (which I shouldn’t have) sat out there with one other guy with
eyes the size of saucers dodging big sets, spooked out of my gourd.
Something about testicular tensioning?
Finally decided I needed to catch a wave and tuck my tail between my
legs and find some shelter. Picked one that “looked” lined up made the
drop and just got atomized by the lip, pushed down to the dark water
with ears popping. Came up to a creased board, next wave I took on the
head, I think there is a possibility that I shit my pants while being
rag-dolled I am not certain… but it is a possibility. Came up with a
nice little blunt-nosed 4’ board and an absolute bitch of a paddle
back in. Not cool at all. Went home without surfing one wave but
gained two little boards. Bummer indeed.
Kev
Does that normally include a couple of screws to join the old across to
the new? Without giving too much away I've seen one that looked like it
was only glued. Seemed strong enough. I suppose the right kind of glue
clamped hard while drying ...
(Surf content: about to sneak out for a couple of waves right now!)
RegForte
> On Dec 10, 9:23 pm, RegForte <r...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Andy wrote:
>>For the board, for sure. The damage even formed a sort of frowny
>>face pattern :(
>>
>>Thanks to some excellent info from the likes of doc et al over on
>>sways, I think it's looking good. The resin is taking forever to
>>firm up though. Damn it's cold.
>>
>>I keep hearing about boards that actually ride better after
>>a snap. The phoenix shall rise from the ashes.
>>
>
> Did you use the wood flanking the stringer method on Sways (some guy
> from Spain?? Nero or something)? It looks like it would be easier to
> line up the board this way as opposed to dowels or just adding resin/
> filler to the snap.
>
After my experiences with some of the local repair guys
(basically snapped boards that were fixed and then snapped again)
I can distill it down to a few basic points.
- The stringer repair/reinforcement is a minor player in
the overall effect. I don't even bother fixing the stringer
anymore, other than to grind out an even face so the pieces
fit together properly.
The repair guys I worked with were big on fixing and reinforcing
the stringer. One guy even added 2 double width pieces, one
along each side of the stringer. SNAP nonetheless.
- The whole game is in the new glass job. Thorough prep to get a
large, clean, perfectly even surface to adhere to. Big overlaps,
multiple layers of glass wrapping the rails. Also, a diamond
shape patch distributes the load over a wider area.
I learned all that mostly by stumbling around, then I saw
some posts by doc on swaylocks that pretty much confirmed it.
Along with the that, another important tip I got from his posts
is how to get the rocker right. Basically, each piece is held
down with strap clamps, and shims are used to micro adjust the
angles on multiple axis'. Getting the rocker right is key, as
is not introducing any twist, and this method pretty much
removed any luck factor.
--
Reg
TonyM
> - The stringer repair/reinforcement is a minor player in
> the overall effect. I don't even bother fixing the stringer
> anymore,
Yep. Stringer splines and dowels are a waste of time.
It's all about a clean bond and good glassing.
But, I wouldn't bother repairing an HP longboard
(aka 'oxymoron') or a Stewart.
Just one man's opinion.
--x--
Tony
RegForte
I hear ya. The "HP" longboard is kind of an odd duck
that fills a certain need for me. Normally used for
particular conditions at a certain break and makes
it a passable experience... on a type of day that no one
else even bothers going out. Lemonaide out of lemons,
as it were. On decent days I prefer the CI flyer,
which of course never snaps :)
--
Reg
doc
> Andy wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 9:23 pm, RegForte <r...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >>Andy wrote:
> >>For the board, for sure. The damage even formed a sort of frowny
> >>face pattern :(
>
> >>Thanks to some excellent info from the likes of doc et al over on
> >>sways, I think it's looking good. The resin is taking forever to
> >>firm up though. Damn it's cold.
As I see my name being taken in vain, I figured I might as well wander
in....
>
> >>I keep hearing about boards that actually ride better after
> >>a snap. The phoenix shall rise from the ashes.
You know, I have had a couple of people say just that, after I had
fixed their snaps. You never know, board design is neither exact nor a
science.
>
> > Did you use the wood flanking the stringer method on Sways (some guy
> > from Spain?? Nero or something)? It looks like it would be easier to
> > line up the board this way as opposed to dowels or just adding resin/
> > filler to the snap.
>
> After my experiences with some of the local repair guys
> (basically snapped boards that were fixed and then snapped again)
> I can distill it down to a few basic points.
>
> - The stringer repair/reinforcement is a minor player in
> the overall effect. I don't even bother fixing the stringer
> anymore, other than to grind out an even face so the pieces
> fit together properly.
Definitely. So much work to add so little, if anything.
Though I'll add that grinding the faces of the snap is kinda risky.
Myself, I'm not that good that I can get it just right. And some foam
is always permanently compressed when a board does a breadstick
impression.
Instead, I jig it up to get the rocker and alignment right, then
carefully take it apart again, add filler and stick it together so the
alignment stays right. Cabolsil mix or gorilla glue, either works
fine, and I have been hearing good things about the white gorilla glue
that looks like new foam when it hardens.
>
> The repair guys I worked with were big on fixing and reinforcing
> the stringer. One guy even added 2 double width pieces, one
> along each side of the stringer. SNAP nonetheless.
Oh yeah. Stringer repair or reinfocement is a complete waste of time.
>
> - The whole game is in the new glass job. Thorough prep to get a
> large, clean, perfectly even surface to adhere to. Big overlaps,
> multiple layers of glass wrapping the rails. Also, a diamond
> shape patch distributes the load over a wider area.
Cute trick #42 - to fill in where the original glass has gone missing,
use heavier glass to account for the thin layer of foam that got
pulled away when the original glass got pulled loose. You have to
inset it, kinda like veneer work, bit it leaves a good, even surface
without being brittle ( as cabosil mix would ) or needing lots of
sanding. Oh, and use laminating resin for that, not sanding resin.
Trick #43 - taper the glass you add at the ends, either a diamond or
feather it or do multiple bands around the board, wider and wider, so
you don't have abrupt changes in the stiffness of the board. It'll
feel better and be less likely to snap again at those abrupt
transition points.
>
> I learned all that mostly by stumbling around, then I saw
> some posts by doc on swaylocks that pretty much confirmed it.
>
> Along with the that, another important tip I got from his posts
> is how to get the rocker right. Basically, each piece is held
> down with strap clamps, and shims are used to micro adjust the
> angles on multiple axis'. Getting the rocker right is key, as
> is not introducing any twist, and this method pretty much
> removed any luck factor.
Definitely. I happen to have access to plenty of plain old wooden
shingles, and used as opposed wedges they make great shims to adjust
things easily and quickly. Being essentially maladroit, I try to make
things as idiot-proof as possible.
Safer that way.
doc....
RegForte
> On Dec 13, 3:07 pm, RegForte <r...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>- The whole game is in the new glass job. Thorough prep to get a
>>large, clean, perfectly even surface to adhere to. Big overlaps,
>>multiple layers of glass wrapping the rails. Also, a diamond
>>shape patch distributes the load over a wider area.
>
>
> Cute trick #42 - to fill in where the original glass has gone missing,
> use heavier glass to account for the thin layer of foam that got
> pulled away when the original glass got pulled loose. You have to
> inset it, kinda like veneer work, bit it leaves a good, even surface
> without being brittle ( as cabosil mix would ) or needing lots of
> sanding. Oh, and use laminating resin for that, not sanding resin.
>
> Trick #43 - taper the glass you add at the ends, either a diamond or
> feather it or do multiple bands around the board, wider and wider, so
> you don't have abrupt changes in the stiffness of the board. It'll
> feel better and be less likely to snap again at those abrupt
> transition points.
Thanks, doc.
One way I've sort of extended your method is to use two tables
and strap each piece to it's own table. That allows me to leave
the snap point hanging out in space so I can access the underside
easily. Then I can shave off all the excess resin before it
completetly hardens thus saving a lot of sanding effort.
doc's precision snap repair method rules.
--
Reg
doc
> Thanks, doc.
>
> One way I've sort of extended your method is to use two tables
> and strap each piece to it's own table. That allows me to leave
> the snap point hanging out in space so I can access the underside
> easily. Then I can shave off all the excess resin before it
> completetly hardens thus saving a lot of sanding effort.
>
> doc's precision snap repair method rules.
>
> --
>
Aha! Y'know, that's a Very Good Idea. Reg's Two Tables method rules!
It'd also let you, say, put a coupla bands of wide masking tape there
to act as a mold, lets say. Though that does kinda presume a pretty
fair amount of confidence in your hold downs when putting the tape to
it, it'll work. Also, your workshop floor needs to be pretty good.
But another thing is that you can then put a healthy band of glass
around the break site while it's still jigged up, to give you a fairly
solid unit to do further glassing and sanding. And do that without a
whole lot of tricky maneuvering.
And, you gave me an idea -
If you had the room in your shop, what you could do is get a coupla
surplus narrow lauan doors, say take apart a bifold closet door or
similar for a couple of ~12" wide by 6'6" doors. . Fasten blocks to
the underside of said doors and a pair on the sides on one end of
each, The spots to secure 'em will become obvious as this description
goes a little further
Some blocks would allow securing one of the doors to a framework/base
(A slick setup would clamp or similar to a regular ding repair
stand.), some could be used for securing some heavy-duty drawer slides
( as you see on most production cabinets these days or for that matter
file cabinets or stove drawers- find those in the local dump too) so
that you can slide the tables together or apart within a coupla feet,
The blocks on one end of each door, on the edges? Those let you use
bar clamps or bungees or what have you so you can put a little
compression on, to hold the thing together while your glue or resin
cures. The tables/former doors are otherwise free to move with
relation to each other.
And, when done, most of those drawer slides allow the drawer to be
removed. Using it the same way, one of the drawer panels/ex-doors can
be taken off and the two can be put in a relatively small space until
the next repair.
I realise that this is a lot of setup for what is hopefully a rare
occurence, but my experience is that if you can put together a snapped
board and do it well then a whole lot of busted boards turn up on your
doorstep. It can be kinda profitable...
Oh, and do give the white Gorilla Glue a try, if you get a chance.
It's adequately strong, easy to fair it when it bubbles up beyond the
confines of the break/seam, fills the gaps well and looks very close
to new foam.
Again, that's a Very Good Idea - thanks
doc...
Andy
> Along with the that, another important tip I got from his posts
> is how to get the rocker right. Basically, each piece is held
> down with strap clamps, and shims are used to micro adjust the
> angles on multiple axis'. Getting the rocker right is key, as
> is not introducing any twist, and this method pretty much
> removed any luck factor.
>
> --
I looked up the swaylocks article doc posted, and yes I can see how
that would make it easier to align the two broken ends. I did the Nero
(man I should look up the post, that is not his name) stringer shim
method on one unfortunate board. It did work nice in comparison to the
previous attempts at alignment, which comprised of tape, bungee-cords,
bailing wire, bubblegum, and some good cuss words. Since my shop is at
the mercy of the elements (read huge swings in humidity and
temperature) getting a uniform “kick” in my resin has always been an
issue (thank goodness I don’t need to mess with that a lot). But if I
ever re-shape that old snapped log (project #2345) I will use the
patented doc workbench el-strappo’ method.