Side Affects?
Tom Anderson
Change in sexual Desiree, performance?
Sam Welch
No side effects that I have noticed.
Very nice to get the Pregnancy problem under MY control.
If anything, Libido enhanced and very secure feeling of never being trapped
into unwanted progeny.
Sam
Tom Anderson <toma...@interl.net> wrote in message
news:7h6vji$l59$1...@forge.sbt.net...
dbro...@my-dejanews.com
"Tom Anderson" <toma...@interl.net> wrote:
> Are there any side affects, associated with have a vasectomy?
> Change in sexual Desiree, performance?
For most men no change in performance, and no change in desire, and
increase if anything.
If you have a look at the post "About alt.config.vasectomy" you can see
what we've been up to as a group already!
David
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
GRFX-Pro
whom the local anesthesia does not work, it went very smoothly. No side
effects, no loss in desire. Just a wonderful safe feeling that my family
will not grow any larger than it already is.
In article <7h705i$dea$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>, "Sam Welch"
<rai...@erols.com> wrote:
> I had mine probably 30+ years ago.
> No side effects that I have noticed.
> Very nice to get the Pregnancy problem under MY control.
> If anything, Libido enhanced and very secure feeling of never being trapped
> into unwanted progeny.
> Sam
> Tom Anderson <toma...@interl.net> wrote in message
> news:7h6vji$l59$1...@forge.sbt.net...
Lazarus
Tom Anderson wrote in message <7h6vji$l59$1...@forge.sbt.net>...
> Are there any side affects, associated with have a vasectomy?
> Change in sexual Desiree, performance?
There is a diminished amount of semen. That is the only physical difference.
But I would suggest you do some hard thinking about what triggers your orgasms.
By this I am saying we all have our fantasies, what and who we think about during
sex.
=================================
I have 2 friends at work that really got taken....
One is a 40 year old guy that is single, happy, and has a good job. He coached a
women's softball team and had an affair with a lady 28 years old. They dated for
about 4 months when suddenly she quit him without warning. A few months later he
was sued for child support and is now paying 1/3 of his salary for the next 18
years. Seems all she wanted was a child fathered by someone that could pay good
support. (she now has 2 other children from 2 other men, all of who pay her a good
deal of money).
Another friend held out (using rubbers) until he was married. Soon after marriage
she became pregnant and left him also getting 1/3 of his salary. She too admitted
she planned it this way.
============================================
So with or without the benefit of marriage a guy has to control his seed, or pay
the price.
I am in my early forties now and have avoid having children (personal reasons). I
was dating a woman about my own age a few years ago and she gave me quite a
scare..... I got lucky that time but these three incidences prompted me to get a
vasectomy.......
The first 2 doctors I went to refused to do the operation because I told them
(when asked) that I had no children and did not want any. So I lied when I visited
the 3rd doctor and told him that I had 3 children from a previous marriage. He
readily consented and did the operation.
Now to the point of all this:
My libido is shot, my sexual desires are almost gone. I have not had sex for over
a year now and don't really care. I have several women friends to choose from but
I just do not find sex enjoyable any more.
After several sessions with a therapist, we concluded that I should have listened
to the doctors and not lied, because a vasectomy may not change a lot physically
but it will change everything mentally.
Those here that express enhanced desire do so because they feel safe, and most
likely already have one or more children. Having their reproductive desires out of
the way they enjoy sex more.
Then there are those that truly hate children and positively have no desire to
reproduce. They too may experience enhanced pleasure.
Now there are a small percentage of us that out of fear choose to not have
children, especially after a failed marriage, but subconsciously wished they did
have children.
=================================
Getting back to the first part of this letter... What do you think about when you
orgasm???
Like the old saying goes, "You never miss something until it's gone." If the
possibility of starting new life is a small part of your excitement then beware of
getting snipped.
I never realized how much my subconscious mind was satisfied by the "survival of
the DNA", how much the possibility of fatherhood added to my orgasmic pleasure.
One of my girlfriends had a hysterectomy several years before my vasectomy and
that did not bother me at all. It seems that my mental image of sowing dead seed
is more important than whether I sowed it on fertile ground or on barren ground.
Now sex seems empty and a waste of time.
I often wondered about the guys that say they do not like wearing a rubber, even
though they make some that are very good. The lamb skin condoms feel very natural.
I know they do not offer protection against HIV and other diseases but neither
does a vasectomy. Why would someone not want to use a condom? Could it possibly be
for the same reason I have talked about?
To sum up:
1. What do you think about when you have sex?
2. Do you already have children?
3. Do you dislike using condoms?
4. and what is the "real" reason you dislike condoms?
(if it's because you enjoy the idea of your semen entering her body, beware!)
Thanks for letting me put in my 2 cents worth.
Laz
Gene Moore
I had a vasectomy in 1957 and it's the
best thing I ever did performance improved and the worry of getting a
partner pregnant disappeared so one could relax. There was no difference in
sensation
Gene
Gene Moore
nate therien
tell them!
During my vasectomy, my nuts were mercifully numb. But I could feel
SERIOUS tugging of the sort that I'm sure would have hurt lots if the
little buggers had been as sensitive as usual--they hurt enough
afterwards. If you went through the whole thing "live," so to speak, I
hope you got lots of points with someone.
Kip
performance. Maybe just a little change in the amount of semen, but
not enough to really make a difference.
Bronnie
Yes there are changes in sexdrive & performance, i know this as my husband
has now had his vasectomy reversed !!
It has worked as we are expecting our first child
The smell changes too, there isn't much smell of the semen ewhen he has a
vasectomy, but after the reversal, it comes back!!
Bronnie
Tom Anderson wrote in message <7h6vji$l59$1...@forge.sbt.net>...
GRFX-Pro
<nthe...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> I hope they found out about the local not working before you you had to
> tell them!
Unfortunately, no. They tested externally and everything was fine. Felt
the tugging, but nothing else. But at the first internal snip.....I was
through the roof. Looked like that cartoon cat clinging to the ceiling!
They had to finish the one side, though. We rescheduled the other side for
a month later and I was put under for that one. Piece of cake!
> During my vasectomy, my nuts were mercifully numb. But I could feel
> SERIOUS tugging of the sort that I'm sure would have hurt lots if the
> little buggers had been as sensitive as usual--they hurt enough
> afterwards. If you went through the whole thing "live," so to speak, I
> hope you got lots of points with someone.
As my doctor told me, for 48 hours after the procedure the heaviest thing
I was allowed to lift was a beer. So, instead of one weekend of rest and
relaxation (and beer), I had two.
-R-
dbro...@my-dejanews.com
> Yes there are changes in sexdrive & performance, i know this as my
husband
> has now had his vasectomy reversed !!
Maybe in your case? Most of us seem to be either unaffected or randier!
> It has worked as we are expecting our first child
Congratulations!!
David
PS glad to know we are not an exclusively male group!
tri...@my-dejanews.com
>
> As my doctor told me, for 48 hours after the procedure the heaviest thing
> I was allowed to lift was a beer. So, instead of one weekend of rest and
> relaxation (and beer), I had two.
>
> -R-
Well deserved. (In fact, after they did the first side--and you did your
cat on the ceiling imitation--I'd say you you should have moved to
something stronger!)
Gizmo
then that the vasectomy would be a good thing. I had two boys and my wife
was in danger from taking "the pill". She had to stop! I did not want her
going through major surgery. Talked with two doctors and they told me the
same thing I read on CompuServe (just like what is being written in this
group). Had a little tugging that was uncomfortable. Surgery was about 30
minutes (for both sides). Went home and spent the day on the couch with an
ice bag! The next day went to work for half a day and the third day was
back to work full time. Had sex 9 days after the surgery. I was still sore
and really wouldn't recommend sex that soon. But it was a great decision
for me and my wife. We have never regretted having it done.
Paul Turner
33pt...@geocities.com
Kip wrote in message <7h848f$17s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I had mine done in December, 1998. So far, no change in desire or
>performance. Maybe just a little change in the amount of semen, but
>not enough to really make a difference.
>
>
>
Kip
sure how that could change the smell anyway. All the procedure does is
block the sperm. The fluid in semen comes from the prostate and that
is not affected.
alien
wasn't able to get my post-operative semen samples to the doctor's
office within one month of the surgery and one month after the first
sample. I was cleared for "take-off" this Friday past. That said.....
My vasectomy was a cinch, BUT be careful!!! During the operation, the
doctor had to go back farther on the left testicle as compared to the
right one...alot farther. My vas on that side was a "bit" back there I
guess. When doc "hooked it" with his finger (before the incision is
made) to bring it forward and place the preliminary clamp, it seemed
to have lifted me off of the table. As a result, that side was
extremely tender. I went back to work a day too soon and the walking
was just enough to rupture a small blood vessel on that side. The
whole left side of the testicle sack turned the black that only
bruises can create. The soreness was unbeleivable. Doc checked it out
and, again, told me to take it easy. I'm 27 with 3 jobs and and
usually absolutely wired....it was difficult. The first ejaculations
were delayed until after the bruise healed (about two weeks), and, of
course, they hurt. Ensure you get in 10 ejaculations (minimum) before
each semen test afterwards.
I have not experienced any decreased libido or desire. I was horny as
a rabbit before-hand, and I still am. Although my wife was able to
become pregnant, she was at a very high risk for medical complications
if she became pregnant. She was also unable to go on the pill. I've
had comdoms break during intercourse and ejaculation. Basically, a
vasectomy was the only "sure" route we had to settle the absolute
fear.
Be sure this is what you want! It takes money, another surgery, and a
high degree of accuracy to reverse a vasectomy. You should consider it
permanent from the onset. If you believe differently, it could effect
you mentally down the line.
I'm glad I had mine. If only I could have gotten without having to
shave the scrotal area. The regrowth was hell!!! If anyone can post
some advise on regrowth releif for future use...please do!!! Many an
itching man will thank you. :-)
Lots of luck to you. If you are not married, I would not advise it.
Don't use it as an alternative to safe sex. If pre-marrital pregnancy
avoidance is the reason, my best advise is this....Abstain from sex,
use protection, or just use your hand and imagination. BECAUSE...If
and when you do marry, you may have changed your mind. By
then...you're shooting blanks.
David Brown
Beer worked best for me as a pain killer - after the first 24 hours, as the
doc told me not to drink before. Stronger the beer, better the pain killing.
The hangover was worse than the vasectomy soreness then!
David
Paul A. Sihvonen-Binder
: I hope they found out about the local not working before you you had to
: tell them!
: During my vasectomy, my nuts were mercifully numb. But I could feel
: SERIOUS tugging of the sort that I'm sure would have hurt lots if the
: little buggers had been as sensitive as usual--they hurt enough
: afterwards. If you went through the whole thing "live," so to speak, I
: hope you got lots of points with someone.
I was feeling very generous on the day of my vasectomy and when the doctor
asked if it was ok to have his intern(?) do one side after observing on
the first side, I said yes. The doctor took his sweet time on the first
side, giving a complete explanation with lots of pointing, tugging etc.
which wasn't too bad. Then, the intern started and went very slowly being
very careful and making sure everything was being done correctly. After
about 10 minutes into the intern's work (45 minutes into the procedure)I
was forced to ask "Excuse me, but am I supposed to be feeling this?".
After the doctor and the intern started breathing again they said "No, you
shouldn't be. You have a choice here, we can inject more painkiller, or
we can try to hurry up and finish quickly." You can guess what my answer
was... After another injection and, another 35 minutes of work I walked
out to the lobby to meet my somewhat concerned wife who'd been expecting
me to be out after 45 minutes. I went home and followed the doctor's
orders two have 2 cold beers, one for drinking and one for use as an
icepack.
Except for the major infection I got 3 weeks later which was most likely
due to going horseback riding I've had no problems and am very glad I did
it since it avoided having my wife get a tubal and got her off the Pill
after 7 years.
--
Paul A. Sihvonen-Binder Computer Science Computing Facility
E-mail - pbi...@cs.umass.edu LGRC Room A313
Phone - (413)545-4317 University of Massachusetts
Fax - (413)545-1249 Amherst, MA 01003
TPH
pay. Just ask my brother-in-law. Looked liked he took to much helium. Ouch
David Brown wrote in message <001501be9c5c$3ca197e0$20408cd4@bedroom>...
Mike
> Maybe in your case? Most of us seem to be either unaffected or
randier!
Most of us?.. whew.. what a crowd.. a bit like the “Body Snatchers”
mentality...
For the sake of throwing some cold water on this “randy” oversexed
vasectomized group we should start with some reading...
The long-term effects of vasectomy on sexual behaviour.
Dias PL
Two hundred soldiers of the Sri Lanka Army who had undergone vasectomy
at least 4 years earlier were interviewed by a pretested questionnaire
to determine the incidence and nature of any changes in sexual
behaviour after the operation. Fifty-six percent reported some change
in their sexual behaviour after vasectomy. A decreased frequency of
intercourse being reported by 15%, a decreased sexual desire by 19% and
changes in sexual behaviour during intercourse by 33%. Seven percent
reported that their wives had noticed an alteration in sexual behaviour
after operation....
PMID: 6869041, UI: 83252368
Ugeskr Laeger 1990 Aug 6;152(32):2282-2284
Well true.. there are a lot of happy vasectomized dudes out there.. but
not all.
The vasectomy is not “a free lunch”... there is a lot more to it..
mike
Mike
Buchholz NP; Weuste R; Mattarelli G; Woessmer B; Langewitz W
Clinic of Urology, University Hospital (Kantonsspital), Basel,
Source
Psychosom Res, 1994 Oct, 38:7, 759-62
Abstract
We investigated two groups of men with regard to vasectomy acceptance,
and subsequent erectile dysfunction. Group I was a group of 45 men
chosen at random from 254 vasectomized patients. Group II was a group
of 18 men who, out of 180 patients treated for erectile dysfunction,
attributed their dysfunction to previous vasectomy. We analysed the
social background, motivation for vasectomy and postoperative changes
of sexual life or behavior of the partners. The partnership
constellation, particularly the role of a predominant female partner
seems to be an important feature for vasectomy acceptance. Low
acceptance might cause erectile dysfunction....
Well it is a “European” study... can we take then seriously?
Regards
mike
--
de duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum..
tri...@my-dejanews.com
>constellation, particularly the role of a predominant female partner
> seems to be an important feature for vasectomy acceptance. Low
> acceptance might cause erectile dysfunction....
>
> Well it is a “European” study... can we take then seriously?
>
Mike, I'd be curious to know how you interpret this study? I can believe
the last part, that guys who don't "accept" their vasectomy after they do
it--who change their minds, in short--may experience erectile
dysfunction.
But I wonder what is meant by "predominant wives?" Whatever is meant by
it in the study, it would seem the study suggests that the husbands of
such women tend not to experience erectile dysfunction after vasectomy.
Or is it that they are so "predominated" they don't care that they can't
get it up?
Another way of looking at it: Isn't the study suggesting that it is
"predominant husbands" who tend to develop erection trouble after
vasectomy? What might be the connection between being a "predominant
husband" and having trouble getting it up after vasectomy? It's got to
be psychological, don't you think? Could it have to do with how
vasectomy changes the way these men view themselves? Why would vasectomy
change the way these guys think of themselves? How do "predominant
husbands" view themselves differently than husbands of "predominant
wives?"
And did the study look at any husbands who were neither "predominant" nor
"predominated." Do you think any such creatures exist?
dbro...@my-dejanews.com
goes back to an earlier point about the outcome of studies reflecting
the views of those who paid for the research.
Re "Not taking europeans seriously" - I assume you're being funny, and
take it in this manner. If not, for an educated man you're being
remarkably dumb.
david
tri...@my-dejanews.com
> Re "Not taking europeans seriously" - I assume you're being funny, and
> take it in this manner. If not, for an educated man you're being
> remarkably dumb.
I presume you mean this comment for Mike, not trifold. Trifold said
nothing about not trusting European studies (either seriously or in
jest). That was Mike. Trifold likes Europeans very much, and has been
taking them seriously for a long time.
But I agree the study Mike quotes seems very narrow in terms of its
sample. For me, even more suspect is its distinction between
vasectomised men with "predominant wives" and others, and its apparent
attempt to connect this status with vasectomy-acceptance (and freedom
from vasectomy-related erection problems). The term "predominant wives"
begs further definition.
Mike, does the full study go into this at greater length? And what do
you think the study is saying about vasectomy and its relation to
erectile dysfunction?
Mike
>for an educated man you're being remarkably dumb.
>
unnecessary and apparently misguided attempted at humor. I was
referring to a postscript on one of your earlier postings (i.e. “am I
the ONLY European posting, apart from Martin?”) Will be careful in the
future. I, for one, trust European studies. I participated in several
pan European clinical trials- not vasectomy related- earlier on in my
career.
Good point about research bias. I will not qualify the study. I only
have access to the abstract. It is just another reference to published
information. I would like to do a formal review of all research I run
across, I would love to have the resources to do the reviews.
Medical counseling on potential risks is poor and misleading. The
irreproachable practitioners, clinics and governmental health
authorities will always maintain that the “risk-less” (or more recently
no risk worth mention) vasectomy is above scrutiny. There is a lot at
stake. The number of vasectomized men is very high, numbered in the
millions. Even a small percentage of “back fired” vasectomies
represents hundreds of thousands of men, serious business, very serious
business.
“What happens if we physicians are motivated to say something that
turns out not to be true? Will patients continue to believe us? Why
should they? The answers to these questions vary with the
circumstances, of course. Certainly the stakes are high.” Dr. C. O.
Granai on “Social Credibility” New England Journal of Medicine” 1992.
Beyond social consequences the legal stakes would be astronomical.
Mr dB, I will avoid my poor attempts at humor and stick to cynicism.
Regards,
Mike
>Do you think any such creatures exist?
"Yeah, I married one.."
Earlier on we discussed the role of the marital relationship with the
vasectomy. I believe that one of us (dB?) established that it was a
condition for having a vasectomy. I agree. With the possible exception
of adherents to the CF (childfree) philosophy the motivation is to
spare the spouse from further childbearing or contraception related
burdens. There are other collateral issues such as economic and social
concerns. The wife and marital relationship are the reasons why men are
vasectomized.
There is a pattern. There are harrowing stories of complicated
deliveries, risks for other forms of contraception that can’t be used.
The vasectomy is justice, a justice that has to be assumed. It can be
subtle, it is frequently denied (men saying that there was no pressure)
but it is there.
The wife of a good friend of mine just had their third child. They are
still in the hospital and she brought up the vasectomy. How can he say
no? He asked me for my advice.. I told him that the vasectomy is a
test of commitment, the price to pay.
If a man feels trapped by this and has no defense (with apparently no
strong reason for saying no when he wants to say no) there is a likely
scenario for psychological repercussions.
Mike
--
de duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum..
tri...@my-dejanews.com
> The vasectomy is justice, a justice that has to be assumed. It can be
> subtle, it is frequently denied (men saying that there was no pressure)
> but it is there.
>
> If a man feels trapped by this and has no defense (with apparently no
> strong reason for saying no when he wants to say no) there is a likely
> scenario for psychological repercussions.
A sense of justice can be a powerful motivator to be sure. And is
justice such a bad thing?
I agree that if a man feels trapped into a vasectomy, and can't think of
a reason to say no, so says yes, and if his wife isn't willing to hear
his reticence, then there is potential for trouble. I also think his
relationship with his partner is in trouble more generally. I don't
think we can help him by inventing reasons for him to say no (e.g. only
a man dominated by his wife will escape erectile dysfunction if he goes
along; you will face all sorts of irremediable, yet vague, medical
complications, etc.)
Remember, any man can say, let's switch to condoms, dear. (The lamb
skin ones, while not great defense against std and on the expense side,
feel pretty good!)
I think many men are choosing vasectomies for their own reasons.
That said, I do believe everyone needs to understand: the choice for a
vasectomy is, essentially, the choice to have no more children
"naturally" except by complicated, expensive, sometimes painful, always
uncertain measures.
Mike
> A sense of justice can be a powerful motivator to be sure. And is
justice such a bad thing?
Depends on the side of the bench. For me the “justice” that in part
drove my decision is a distant and very hollow notion. Perhaps that why
we are on different wavelengths here. I treat the whole issue as
strictly personal and intimate.
But don’t mind me.. Let’s talk about relationships. How do you weigh
your personal worth in a relationship? How do you determine the value
of what you sacrifice? I am lost there.
>I don't think we can help him by inventing reasons...
Too true. I am not good at inventing, I just cut and paste them from
databases. However, even if I give him a book of reasons, how would
they be evaluated? Hearing reticence when there is so much “positive”
info available from all sources? Let’s be reasonable, why was this
group started?
“Vague” medical complications? You bung up a functional and healthy
organ system and you want a discrete set of pathological consequences?
It not over with the operation. Once backed up you get a toothpaste
like sludge that at time blows out into the blood stream (where
autoimmune reactions begin), testis are unaware of the blockage they
continue to work normally.. for a time.
On a proactive note; I asked a urologist to help me with a narrative
description of the direct effects on the organ system. He suggested
that we include images from a vasectomy reversal. There one can
actually see some of the effects. I hope to have it posted by this
summer (on the web site?).
Regards,
Mike
Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice. H. L.
Mencken
Bob H.
here's a New European Posting to add to the Tally list.
I had my Vas. done here in Germany, (No Knife) about 7 years ago with No
complications afterward... I Thank my Doc.
She (my Doc) used me to demonstrate the procedure to about 6 Nurses (I'm not
bashful), 20 minutes and 2 drops of Super Glue and I was out the door with
no major discomfort, work as normal same day.
Info: At the time when I had this procedure done I was 35 yrs.old (single).
Pre / After Counselings and Follow-ups were super, as of this date I do not
regret having this done, as a matter of fact it saved me from a Golddigger..
hee hee Suprize I'm not the father...
Bob..
Mike <mic...@my-dejanews.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
7hj6gv$j4g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
tri...@my-dejanews.com
> I had my Vas. done here in Germany, (No Knife) about 7 years ago with No
> complications afterward... I Thank my Doc.
> She (my Doc) used me to demonstrate the procedure to about 6 Nurses (I'm not
> bashful)
Geesh. And I worried ahead of time that I might spring a hardon with a
50+ male doctor and just ONE nurse!
Glad it all turned out well--and that you dodged the paternity suit.
Paul
tri...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>Geesh. And I worried ahead of time that I might spring a hardon with a
>50+ male doctor and just ONE nurse!
Afterwards I enquired if I could see the nurse again at some point. I
didn't want her to think that what she saw then was 'the norm'!
--
Paul
remove 'nospam' to reply
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tri...@my-dejanews.com
foxe...@webnospamleicester.co.uk (Paul) wrote:
> Hey, guess what? On Sun, 16 May 1999 03:46:23 GMT,
> tri...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >Geesh. And I worried ahead of time that I might spring a hardon with a
> >50+ male doctor and just ONE nurse!
>
> Afterwards I enquired if I could see the nurse again at some point. I
> didn't want her to think that what she saw then was 'the norm'!
> --
> Paul
Yeah, I take your meaning. Once I was on the table, all thought of an
erection quickly disappeared. Finding my balls was probably a real
challenge, even with the valium to calm me.
(I assume word got back to the rest of the nurses that you were back in
pecking order. . .)
Paul
tri...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>(I assume word got back to the rest of the nurses that you were back in
>pecking order. . .)
No. My wife wouldn't go for that :-(
Kip
>
> Geesh. And I worried ahead of time that I might spring a hardon with
a
> 50+ male doctor and just ONE nurse!
Know what you mean, I had the same thoughts run through my mind. I
tell you though, the night before when I had to shave, I got pretty
worked up by all that lather and fooling around down there. Gave me a
good reason for one final go at it shooting live shots!!!
tri...@my-dejanews.com
Kip <wzr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Know what you mean, I had the same thoughts run through my mind. I
> tell you though, the night before when I had to shave, I got pretty
> worked up by all that lather and fooling around down there. Gave me a
> good reason for one final go at it shooting live shots!!!
I was glad my wife wanted to watch the shaving--made for a great last
fuck "fully charged." Better than the last time I got shaved--for a
hernia repair when I was 17. Then, the shaving was done by an orderly,
and I did throw a hardon. All that warm water, foam, and repositioning
of things. Plus, I was 17, and ready to erect every time the wind
blew.. He was cool about it, and said nothing. But I was mortified.
Then a young nurse's aide blundered in. She was clearly shocked, began
apologizing. He yelled, "It's too late, just get out, get out!" I felt
sorry for her, and was saying, "It's ok, it's ok." In all the
commotion, the hardon went away, and he finished the shave. (Of course
in the shower at the hospital that night, I jerked off big time, doubly
excited by the vision of the nurse.)
Perhaps more than anyone cares to know about my herina adventure!
tri...@my-dejanews.com
Mike <mic...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> > A sense of justice can be a powerful motivator to be sure. And is
> justice such a bad thing?
>
> Depends on the side of the bench. For me the “justice” that in part
> drove my decision is a distant and very hollow notion. Perhaps that why we are on different wavelengths here. I treat the whole issue as
> strictly personal and intimate.
What could be more "personal and intimate" than a sense of justice? If
one reason men decide for vasectomies is that, in addition to not wanting
to switch to condoms (a personal and intimate preference I understand
perfectly), they want to assume the risk of contraception from the woman
(and certainly we are agreed that oral contraception involves serious
risk for the woman, certainly major mucking-up of a fully functional
organic system). What could cause "justice" to become "merely abstract"
in such a case? Surely not the discovery that, in taking a risk, one
ended up "losing," in the sense that the chance went against one. Does
the sense of justice motivating the original sacrifice cease to be real
if one changes one's valuation of the person for whom one "sacrificed?"
Why?
> But don’t mind me.. Let’s talk about relationships. How do you weigh
> your personal worth in a relationship? How do you determine the value
> of what you sacrifice? I am lost there.
Isn't it true that in a personal relationship--as in any social
connection--each individual both gains and loses? A part of the "self"
is "sacrificed" more or less deliberately to satisfy the needs/desires of
another part of the "self." If a relationship falls apart, there is a
new self that continues.
All the medical reports aside, I think the clearest risk of vasectomy is
that the man may change his mind, and decide he wants to have children
again. This will prove difficult. But whether he succeeds or fails, the
original decision to have the vasectomy in the first place is part of
him. If he chose to act out of a sense of commitment to a woman that,
over time, proved ill-judged, that does not mean that the decision to act
was any less motivated by a sense of justice. Hopefully, any new partner
will understand that decision in those terms, not resent the decision.
>
>>I don't think we can help him by inventing reasons...
>
> Too true. I am not good at inventing, I just cut and paste them from
> databases.
Don't you think you should seek to evaluate this evidence? Surely that's
one reason this list was started.
> “Vague” medical complications? You bung up a functional and healthy> organ system and you want a discrete set of pathological consequences?
Yes. Because we interupt ordinary bodily functions all the time to suit
our needs. It is what we do. There is risk when we do this; benefits,
too.
> It not over with the operation. Once backed up you get a toothpaste
like sludge that at time blows out into the blood stream (where
> autoimmune reactions begin),
This happens, but is not unprecedented. And there are not clear negative
consequences.
testis are unaware of the blockage they
> continue to work normally.. for a time.
Are you implying here that the testes shut down? There is no evidence
this happens. Why would it? If there were reductions in testoserone
production in vasectomised men CAUSED BY VASECTOMY AND NOT A FUNCTION OF
OTHER FACTORS, INCLUDING AGING why would't we have evidence of it?
Testosterone levels can be checked.
>
On a proactive note; I asked a urologist to help me with a narrative
> description of the direct effects on the organ system. He suggested
> that we include images from a vasectomy reversal. There one can
> actually see some of the effects. I hope to have it posted by this
> summer (on the web site?).
Good idea. But lets also consider how common the process we "see" is;
and some discussion of what it means.
Finally, I think we should be discussing ways the relatively rare
negative consequences of vasectomy can be treated. For example, I
believe I recall a post from you in which you mention you are considering
possible ways to treat the scrotal pain you have been experiencing--a
"reconnection" or nerve stripping. Where do you stand in choosing a
therapy?
Also, seems to me the group should discuss dealing with the vasectomy
choice after a relationship ends, and a new one begins.
>
> Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice. H. L. Mencken
What does this mean, in this case? Forgive me if I am presuming to much,
but I've got to confess, I am wondering whether you are bothered by
"injustice"--you made a decision for vasectomy within a committed
relationship, the relationship went bad, and now you--and your new
partner--are having to "pay the price." If this happened to you, I am
sorry; and frankly, I think I would probably feel the "injustice" of it
all if it happened this way to me. But the sense of having been
someone's victim can become a victimizer itself.
Mike
>What could cause "justice" to become "merely abstract", in such a
>case? Surely not the discovery that, in taking a risk, one ended
>up "losing," in the sense that the chance went against one.
But if you insist that justice is not an abstract notion then how do
you determine the value of what you sacrifice? How pays what? Justice
is the squaring of accounts. What is gained and what is lost? It
depends on your rule of measure.
We are at different junctures, with different percepts. Your appraisal
sounds sincere, high minded, but it is gratuitous. Both jump through
the hoop, one made it, one didn’t. It makes sense. We both have clear
ideas and we are firmly on opposite sides of the issue. You are
inviting others in and I am warning them away.
Regarding your point about the “shut down” (your words not mine). I was
referring to the fact that functioning is altered. Reference: Jenkins
IL,Muir VY,Blacklock NJ,Turk JL,Hanley HG: Consequences of vasectomy:
an immunological and histological study related to subsequent
fertility. Br J Urol 51:406, 1979, where he concludes “testis biopsy
prior to vasovasostomy demonstrated maturation arrest”. It is well
know that there is a correlation between the time of the vasectomy and
success of the reversal.
--
Et decorum est pro patria mori..
Mike
>What could cause "justice" to become "merely abstract", in such a
>case? Surely not the discovery that, in taking a risk, one ended
>up "losing," in the sense that the chance went against one.
But if you insist that justice is not an abstract notion then how do
you determine the value of what you sacrifice? How pays what? Justice
is the squaring of accounts. What is gained and what is lost? It
depends on your rule of measure.
We are at different junctures, with different percepts. Your appraisal
sounds sincere, high minded, but it is gratuitous. Both jump through
the hoop, one made it, one didn’t. It makes sense. We both have clear
ideas and we are firmly on opposite sides of the issue. You are
inviting others in and I am warning them away.
Regarding your point about the “shut down” (your words not mine). I was
referring to the fact that functioning is altered. Reference: Jenkins
IL,Muir VY,Blacklock NJ,Turk JL,Hanley HG: Consequences of vasectomy:
an immunological and histological study related to subsequent
fertility. Br J Urol 51:406, 1979, where he concludes “testis biopsy
prior to vasovasostomy demonstrated maturation arrest”. It is well
known that there is a negative correlation between the time of the
vasectomy and success of the reversal (more time=less success).
--
Et decorum est pro patria mori..
Mike
> > It not over with the operation. Once backed up you get a toothpaste
> like sludge that at time blows out into the blood stream (where
> > autoimmune reactions begin),
>
> This happens, but is not unprecedented. And there are not clear
negative
> consequences.
One detail I forgot; It is realistic to state that autoimmune reactions
created by epididymal blowouts are “not clear negative consequences” ?
tri...@my-dejanews.com
Actually, several of my posts could be interpreted as warnings. I am
less interested in "inviting others in" than in sharing information and
experience. I think thinking about vasectomy is fun and interesting.
Also, I want to hear from others about any problems they encounter, and
about how they dealt with those problems.
dbro...@my-dejanews.com
> Good point about research bias. I will not qualify the study.
I don't understand this comment - why on earth NOT qualify your
information? Whilst not wishing to argue with, or dismiss your
information, I for one would like more information on how the studies
were done - specifically how large the sample was, who commissioned the
survey, and who did the survey, or the source of information. I think
that all posters of surveys and statistics should provide this sort of
information.
There is a danger in quoting statistics, specifically if the sample was
very small. Bearing in mind the 500,000 vasectomies performed in the US
ALONE per year (source - "Men's Health" magazine, June 1999), surveys
of 1000 men in a small geographical area for example, may not produce a
result representative of the true picture.
I think the idea of putting your research information on a database
with a link from the website is an excellent idea - I look forward to
that.
David.
PS. Please don't mind me, and use humour again. My "Sense of humour
bypass" was only temporary!
dbro...@my-dejanews.com
>Trifold likes Europeans very much
But I bet he can't eat a whole one!
David
dbro...@my-dejanews.com
>The night before when I had to shave, I got pretty
> worked up by all that lather and fooling around down there. Gave me a
> good reason for one final go at it shooting live shots!!!
Been there, done that, shot the last live rounds all over the shower
door! It does seem that shaving our nether regions is a bit of a turn
on for some of us guys.
I had an adult circumcision a couple of years ago for medical reasons.
Why anyone actually WANTS this done is a complete mystery to me - it's
FAR from pleasant, and makes a vasectomy seem like "A snip", if you'll
pardon the pun.
Anyway, for that procedure I had to completely shave my pubic hair. I
didn't want to, and still think it was basically unnecessary. However,
yet again it was actually an incredible turn-on doing it, and yet again
the shower door got splattered! I wished I'd asked the wife to do it
for me now!
Kip
> didn't want to, and still think it was basically unnecessary. However,
> yet again it was actually an incredible turn-on doing it, and yet again
> the shower door got splattered! I wished I'd asked the wife to do it
> for me now!
>
> David
>
Why did you waste it on the shower door?
--
Check out our webpage at: http://www.angen.net/~vasec
David Brown
>yet again it was actually an incredible turn-on doing it, and yet again
>the shower door got splattered! I wished I'd asked the wife to do it
>for me now!
> Why did you waste it on the shower door?
Well, you know how it goes - you can't always plan these things! "Seize
the day" sometimes applies!