Enlightening Discussion
Fester Bestertester
congestion ever since. At one point the pain disrupted my sleep so badly
that I missed a week of work. I've had to curtail nearly all activities
and cancel vacation plans.
Through a personal contact, I received a phone call yesterday from an
specialist physician who works at the HMO where I had my vasectomy. This
fellow had his vasectomy done about eight years ago, at this very same HMO.
This specialist physician tells me that he was in constant pain for over
a year after his procedure, to the point where he was seriously
considering an orchiectomy. But ultimately, he decided to stick it out.
His pain finally started to settle down after about a year, and today
he's fine, and he's been fine for a such a long time, that today the
whole experience seems like a distant memory. And he offered me multiple
assurances that eventually I would be fine too.
I'm not interested in perusing any legal action against my HMO, because
I'm certain they would just lie. And right now I need to focus all my
energies on recovery. But I am absolutely convinced that my HMO doesn't
do nearly enough to prepare men for the possibility of long-term chronic
pain resulting from this procedure. If I had had the slightest idea that
such long-term complications were possible, I am certain that I would
have at least postponed the procedure, and when I did undergo the
procedure, I would have been much much more cautious about my recovery
period. This whole business about the acute recovery period being 7-10
days really is misleading.
Currently I am holding on to two threads of hope. I have been on
Indomethicin for a couple of weeks now, a 75mg time release capsule that
I take once a day. And I do seem to be responding to this medication. So
the fact that I am noticeably better after only a couple of weeks, when
just two weeks ago I was in agonizing pain, gives me hope that I won't
turn out to be one of these guys that suffers for years.
But this is a really powerful anti-inflammatory that is ordinarily
prescribed only to people with gout or rheumatoid arthritis, it has
potentially disastrous side effects, and I'm only supposed to be on it
for another couple of weeks. After that I'm supposed to go back on
ibuprofen. So I have to be very very cautious about my activities.
The other thread of hope is the phone call from the specialist
physician. After all, here is a very high level medical person who
experienced this agony himself first hand. And today, even he is okay.
If he pulled through, I feel more confident that eventually, I will pull
through as well.
Currently, the profoundly pressurized swollen sensation that made my
entire scrotum feel as though it were on fire and going to burst is
starting to deflate. But I need to constantly remember that these
epididymis tubules have suffered a tremendous trauma from being severely
distended for a long period of time, and I will still feel like I'm
walking around with two soft, warm blubbery lumps rolling around in my
shorts for quite some time to come. Which means that another flareup
could happen any time, even if I'm very cautious.
I also need to be aware that if I'm not very careful about managing my
sexual activity, I will almost certainly aggravate this soft tissue and
create another devastating flareup. I am convinced that ejaculating too
frequently will aggravate the inflamed nature of this soft tissue. My
urologist dismisses this theory, but then, my urologist has already
admitted that he doesn't really understand what's wrong with me and that
he has no provable way to determine what's wrong with me.
But the last serious round of pain started the day after my libido had
come roaring back with a vengeance, and I ended up ejaculating three
times in a single day, and I'm convinced that it's not just a
coincidence that the severe pain started up again the next day.
In addition, there is one particularly sensitive spot in the lower left
area of my scrotum which seems to be the last spot to die down when I'm
getting better, and is the first spot to flare up when I'm having a
critically painful episode. I suspect that this nerve bundle is involved
with the lower left area of my groin, and that the pain here is
aggravated if I spend lots of time driving my stick shift truck, or
doing anything else that puts any strain my left groin.
For now, my approach is as follows:
1. Sexual abstinence. I am not currently in a steady relationship. I was
just beginning to date again after a few years' hiatus, and I had the
vasectomy so that it would be a settled issue in case I did get into
another relationship. The point is, that there is no real imperative
right now for me to be indulging myself in unnecessary
self-gratification if there is the risk of exacerbating the sense of
congestion.
2. No exercise. Just a lot of groin stretching.
3. No unnecessary travel or long-distance driving. This will simply make
the irritation in my groin get worse.
4. Ice. 20 minutes, once every hour. It seems to be the only thing that
helps alleviate the burning and swelling. But no more than 20 minutes
every hour, because any more than that risks the possibility of freezing
the skin.
5. I have to behave as though I've been in a serious auto accident and
suffered soft tissue injury. In fact, soft tissue injury is exactly what
I have suffered. Just because I start to feel better, that doesn't mean
I *am* better.
6. Do nothing but go to work, sit at my desk and do my job, go home and
sit or lie down, do the grocery shopping and laundry, and that's it.
For now, I have to emotionally adjust myself to the fact that for the
next year or so, I won't be able to do any of the things that make life
worth living: no exercise, no socializing or relationships, no travel,
no mountaineering or enjoying the outdoors. No going out to bars or
restaurants, no nothing but going to work and coming home.
But at this point it's a cross I'm willing to bear. I am operating on
the belief that if I behave myself, then someday, a couple of years from
now, this will all be a distant memory.
After all, even doctors (at least one) have been through this pain and
are fine now. If they got through it, so can I.
MRVAS...@gmail.com
I just had a bout of epidiymisus myself that wasn't particularly
pleasant. A 2 week round of Ciprofloxacin took care of it by day 8.
You need to get more proactive with your treatment. I'm not too
familiar with the drug you're on, but Cipro seems to be the weapon of
choice for an infection in the male urinary tract.
All good medicine,
GREENFEATHER
Luan
Like you I came here after I made my mistake only to discover I was very
ignorant and maybe a little stupid to ever consider vasectomy. Vasectomy,
without informed consent, is one of the nastiest things doctors do to men.
You may be as painfully aware of this as I am. I have yet to meet one
vasectomised man who was properly informed by doctors or hospitals of the
risks all men take when they submit to vasectomy. I do know one man whose
doctor told him and his wife during a counselling session that there were
too many problems with vasectomy and it was much better that she get her
tubes tied if they wanted birth control via sterilization. They did as
advised, his wife delayed a little and ended up with a third child before
she took responsibility for her fertility, but they are very happy with
their choice and their third child. This is the same doctor who delivered
both of my daughters, unfortunately I did not consult him prior to
choosing vasectomy because I had absolutely no knowledge of long-term
chronic post vasectomy problems. I did read about vasectomy in the medical
books of my late brother-in-law who was a urologist but these books were
printed in the 60s and contained no information about the problems I
encountered immediately after my vasectomy in Sept. 2004. Many post
vasectomy complications are well documented by medical people now and to
keep this information secret from the ignorant men (and wives) who decide
on vasectomy is obviously a crime, the law says, "Informed consent". The
surgeon who attempted to help me end my post vasectomy pain with reversal
surgery told me 3% to 9% of men get long term pain problems like what I
experience.
You have two basic choices:
1) You may take medications and keep searching for something that gives
you relief and then hope that time somehow settles down the nerves that
the "little snip" has obviously greatly irritated.
2) Reversal surgery by a qualified surgeon in the hope that most of the
damage can be undone. My experience with vasectomy is quite similar to
yours so far as you have gone. I used a lot of medications some of which
were dangerous and I am still suffering the side effects of one medication
1.5 years after I quit taking it. If I progress as I have the past six
months it looks like one more year is required just to be free of that
extra pain poorly administered medications have caused me. I had reversal
surgery at 15 months and the worst pain I had came at 51 weeks after
vasectomy even while I was on medications. The worst pain I had with
ejaculation came about six months after vasectomy and it was so strong it
would stop the ejaculation. I was told, and I believed, the greatest
chance for recovery comes from getting reversal surgery as soon as
possible. However, it is not easy to find a decent surgeon and even if you
do I highly advise you not to have general anesthesia. You had better
understand everything about reversal for the purpose of pain relief and
know what you want done. In my case I got a good result on one side but
not so good on the other. Reversal surgery cannot make you as you were
before for the simple reason that motor nerves do not grow back. Once the
vas is cut the nerves that caused it to pulsate and move sperm efficiently
during ejaculation are not likely to ever work properly again. If your
epididymis is not too badly damaged a simple reconnect will put an end to
the problems you're having about 80% of the time. The men who say
everything is fine after several months of misery do not know their
future. What they mean by "Fine" is not necessarily what you hope it
means. I could say I am fine too because I can, as of march, 2005, go up
and down stairs more or less normally and I am improving to this day so
far as the feeling of extreme fatigue on my right side/leg goes. Only
rarely now do I end up in bed mid afternoon to get relief from my aching
right testicle, however, I do not think it is so fine to be in constant
discomfort and it's definitely not fine that nearly 3 years have passed
since I was able to have a decent orgasm. I have a close friend who had a
vasectomy 19 years ago and for the past three years has been having
problems and he told me just yesterday it is getting worse. Is his present
problem related to the vasectomy he had long ago? It certainly could be but
no doctor is going to try and prove it for obvious reasons. Post-vasectomy
complications can strike immediately or anytime in the future. Post
vasectomy health problems come in many different forms all the way from
Kidney stones to cancer. The difficult problem you face is whether to
consider reversal or not and the longer you wait the less chance that this
expensive, invasive surgical choice will succeed. And who can you go to for
good information? When you ask the men who are living with their vasectomy
as best they can they will usually suggest you to do the same - comfort in
numbers? It is a real mystery why men don't warn each other of the terrible
side effects of vasectomy isn't it! I will suggest reversal because it
seems to have been my best choice and even though it was not as successful
as it should have been, and I am not happy about that, I am sure it was my
best chance at having a normal life again. I saw 22 doctors in my efforts
to recover from vasectomy. I took more medications for vasectomy problems
after Sept of 2004 than I had taken in my whole life for all medical
ailments prior to vasectomy. Counting vasectomy I have had 4 surgeries all
related to the problems vasectomy caused me. I never had any infections or
bleeding problems post vasectomy but the doctors prescribed a lot of
antibiotic and anti-inflammatory that had little or no effect. The first
doctor I saw told me, "Vasectomy can not cause the problems you are
having." A few weeks later I talked to his partner and got this
information: The partner considers 45 to be the cutoff age for vasectomy
and he would absolutely not perform vasectomy on a man over 50 he said.
When I asked him why he claimed, "The outcome is often not good." (I was
58) You can waste a lot of time and money seeing more and more doctors, do
they lie or are they ignorant? Probably both I must conclude. One
well-known urologist told me I would be "fine" in two to five years and
that there was nothing I should do. The level of pain and disability I was
suffering at that time was not something I chose to try and live with, I
was not so sure I would be alive in five years and post vasectomy pain got
considerably worse after I saw this doctor. The truth about the medical
people is this: As long as you are ignorant enough to come knocking at
their door with non-life-threatening problems such as pain they will
suggest you do whatever is best for their bank account.
I'd like to comment on your approach to this problem because you may have
overlooked potential risks.
1. Sexual abstinence. I am not currently in a steady relationship. I was
just beginning to date again after a few years' hiatus, and I had the
vasectomy so that it would be a settled issue in case I did get into
another relationship. The point is, that there is no real imperative right
now for me to be indulging myself in unnecessary self-gratification if
Prolonged abstinence may result in prostate problems. My late
brother-in-law urologist told me his most regular customers were celibate
priests. Their celibacy contributed to chronic prostate infections that
were nearly impossible to cure, he said. I experimented with abstinence
after vasectomy and tried to compare my symptoms. I decided sex caused
slightly more pain in the short term but I think overall it was better for
me to have regular ejaculations. I think you should research this further
before you decide it is the best course of action.
2. No exercise. Just a lot of groin stretching. COMMENT: "No exercise" may
lead to weight gain, poor sleep, and higher blood pressure etc. In my case
I had no choice in the matter of exercise, the pain prevented it and for
two years I lost on average one hour of sleep a night and my blood
pressure was consistently 10 to 20% higher than it had been in the year
preceding vasectomy. My sleep patterns remain erratic and abnormal but
with less chronic pain, no medications and more exercise my blood pressure
has returned to normal. I discovered swimming was a good substitute for the
other things I was unable to do. To this day I will get more pain from
excess exercise and often a very busy day is followed by a day that I end
up in bed long before sunset and I am well aware of the cause, however, to
go years without enough exercise is probably going to impact your health in
negative ways too. I am sure you probably have high hopes that you can
recover in a few weeks of well disciplined behavior. I remember well that
I did not like the prospect of YEARS of recovery, However, I suggest you
prepare for the long haul, I discovered that vasectomy is a very nasty
trick that many men fall for and for the individuals like you and me - the
3% to 9% ( probably grossly under reported ) - whose bodies were not suited
for this mutilation, recovery if it happens at all is very slow and
miserable.
riding should be avoided as much as possible. I sometimes get relief from
the terrible ache/fatigue feeling in my right leg by sitting for a short
time, but lying down is the best relief from aching testicles.
helps alleviate the burning and swelling. But no more than 20 minutes
every hour, because any more than that risks the possibility of freezing
or the other.
5. I have to behave as though I've been in a serious auto accident and
suffered soft tissue injury. In fact, soft tissue injury is exactly what I
have suffered. Just because I start to feel better, that doesn't mean I
is: what is preventing your recovery? I sit here writing to you with a
dull ache in my right testicle but absolutely no pain on my left side.
There were days during the last few months before reversal surgery when my
left side was more painful than the right side. When I read my reversal
surgical report it is clearly written that the left side reversal was a
normal vas to vas - "Copious amount of sperm present." But the right side
only showed "scant sperm" and therefore the epididymis remains partially
blocked and I believe the surgeon should have preformed a
vasoepididymostomy instead of a simpler vas to vas reversal. This is why I
warn against general anesthesia, you must be in control at all times and
able to make decisions and answer questions. I have learned to not trust
doctors or medical people at all. They generally do what makes them the
most money, obviously they make the most money by not informing men as to
the risks of vasectomy. My out-of-pocket expense to date exceeds $16,000
and I have lost much more than that by being disabled.
sit or lie down, do the grocery shopping and laundry, and that's it.
Conclusion:
Horror Story -- Unbelievable -- That's right. The reason men make this
mistake is that this subject is "socially unspeakable". The men who are
happy with the result talk much more openly than the men who suffer a huge
loss in quality of life. Best friends, doctors, family, the people I
trusted to warn me in the long term of the risks, all failed me
completely. After the fact I found 9 men in my life who could have warned
me with just one sentence. Remember: Doctors Do Not Care about your
happiness, they practice medicine to make a profit. My brother-in-law
(radiologist from Boston) told me in 1967 that: "Medical schools screen
out students who might care more for their patients than they do about
making money for hospitals and drug companies." When I reported to him
about my vasectomy problems in 2005 he said, "I'm sorry, I thought you
knew better." His advice is simple: "Never Never Never have elective
surgery done!" I am sure the reason so many doctors appear ignorant on
this subject and lie about the facts is that the malpractice insurance
companies tell them what they cannot say. Comparing the information I got
from the 22 doctors I visited they appear to be a bunch of lying idiots.
Almost forgot, I suppose you really want to remain sterile AND recover if
that is possible. I sure did not want to lose the only benefit I had
gained but at about 5 months that was not an issue any longer. I think the
obvious fact should be presented to the females. I tell them, "Birth
Control is your problem/responsibility, I do not get pregnant." I think
men should have a good Birth Control method but vasectomy causes too many
problems to be considered.
Luan