Question from a lurker
Johnstudioj
intensity during orgasm, following a vasectomy. Unfortunately, thats not enough
for me. So I'll just ask the question.
Does a vasectomy have any impact on the sensation of orgasm? Thanks for
experienced answers on this.
David
"Johnstudioj" <johns...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020324015215...@mb-fq.aol.com...
Hi John,
The majority of men report no change or an improvement in pleasure, desire
and frequency of sexual activity post vasectomy. Maybe in part as you are
phsycologically not going to have a baby as the result of a few minutes
pleasure, and partly because you don't need to use condoms.
You might like to take a look at the survey running on the newsgroups
website. So far 492 men have joined the survey - 303 of them having had a
vasectomy already. There would have been more, but some data was lost when
the website moved servers.
David
trifold
Not for me! (I had mine almost 4 years ago now, and can only report
the same range of orgasms, from "WOW, that was great!" to "WOW THAT
WAS GREAT AND WHEN WILL I STOP SHAKING?!"
Bilirubin
> Does a vasectomy have any impact on the sensation of orgasm?
Nope, not a bit. In fact, its all the more exciting knowing each time that
there will be no more condoms to mess with, no more pills, no more fear of
pregnancy, ever!
G. Kraebel
the web site, all the medical pages and everything that said that
orgasm doesn't change but like you I was somewhat worried about
myself.
So 21 hours post surgury I got up the nerve to test it out. Bruised
though I was I had to find out if things felt different so I desided
to masturbate and find out. I was nervous as Orgasm built, but then
it came same as always. So for me there was no change at all.
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Trevor
in some men. Antisperm antibodies are produced in up to 80% of men, and
their long-term effects are not fully understood. This is why almost all
urologists and doctors DO NOT elect to undergo vasectomy themselves. THEY
KNOW. But it's a lucrative cash cow and too well-established to admit the
uncertainties. Just like vaccinations, high-carbohydrate diets and
pharmaceuticals. Read 'The Medical Mafia' by Guylaine Lanctot M.D.
How lucky do you feel? Bear in mind that the pro-vasectomy posters here
only underwent the procedure a few years ago. Remember that a vasectomy is
FOR LIFE, and not easily reversible like barrier methods. My problems with
pain, loss of interest in sex, loss of pleasure and hormonal abnormalities
only started 10-15 years AFTER vasectomy.
You're right to ask men their experiences. Ask doctors too, because you'll
be seeing an awful lot of them if things go wrong. If you have any doubts
or value your pleasure highly, then don't do it.
Trevor.
"Johnstudioj" <johns...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020324015215...@mb-fq.aol.com...
john
YOU ARE RIGHT TO ASK THIS QUESTION.
I WAS TOLD BEFORE MY VASECTOMY THAT IT WOULDN'T AFFECT ANYTHING,
BAR A VERY SMALL DROP IN VOLUME. THIS IS NOT NECCESSARILY TRUE. IT HAS
RADICALLY DECREASED THE PLEASURE I GET ON EJACULATION, AND I AM NOT
THE ONLY ONE AFFECTED LIKE THIS, ALTHOUGH I AM IN THE MINORITY. A MAIN
FEATURE OF EJACULATION BEFORE THE OP. WAS A PULSE COMING UP FROM MY
BALLS AND A WAVE OF RELAXATION AS THE PRESSURE WAS EMPTIED FROM THEM
(ESPECIALLY THE RIGHT). THIS HAS NOW GONE, AND THE ORGASAMS I NOW
EXPERIENCE ARE 'TOP END ONLY'. THE SENSATIONS BEFORE EJACULATION ARE
UNCHANGED AND THE VOLUME IS SIMILAR, BUT I NO LONGER GET THAT 'AFTER
SEX' FEELING OF RELAXATION.
SPECIALISTS WILL TELL YOU THAT THE SPERM IS ACTUALLY CARRIED UP
THE VAS, BY THE FINE HAIRS INSIDE, DURING THE EMISSION PHASE (WHEN YOU
SEXUALLY EXITED) AND THAT EJACULATION OCCURS FROM THE RESEVOIR UP THE
TOP. THIS IS TRUE, HOWEVER THERE ARE PULSES INDUCED IN THE VAS DURING
EJACULATION AS WELL. THE STRENGTH AND IMPORTANCE OF THESE PULSES MUST
VARY CONSIDERABLY BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS. I BELIEVE THAT IN MY CASE THEY
WERE VERY IMPORTANT TO RELIEVE PRESSURE. IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO
WITH DIFFERENT RATES OF SPERM PRODUCTION, OR RESTRICTIONS LOW DOWN
THAT NEED CLEARING THROUGH OR SOMETHING. I AM LEFT WITH BALLS THAT
CONSTANTLY FEEL UNDER PRESSURE AND ARE VULNERABLE TO ACHES AND DULL
PAINS ALL THE TIME.
MY ADVICE WOULD BE THAT IF YOU USUALLY FEEL SIMILAR PULSES IN THE
VAS ON EJACULATION, AND YOUR DODY TELLS YOU NOT TO MESS WITH THEM,
THEN DON'T !
I AM DETERMINED TO RECTIFY THE PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH THE
VASECTOMY, I FEEL LIKE I AM LIVING A SENTENCE OF PUNISHMENT, JUST FOR
BEING A MAN. IF I HAVE TO, THEN I WILL GET A REVERSAL, BUT I WOULD
LIKE TO KNOW IF CONVERSION TO AN OPEN ENDED VASECTOMY WOULD RESTORE
THINGS TO NEAR NORMAL. IF ANYONE HAS SOME EXPERIENCES THAT THEY THINK
WOULD BE RELEVENT, COULD THEY LET ME KNOW?
JOHN
David
a site that wants to castrate men, and other antics.
How does any of this forward the goal of PVP sufferers being taken seriously
and trying to promote the flip side of the coin in an effective way? Beats
me.
David
trifold
DROVE...@SUPANET.COM (john) wrote in message news:<41c6a9f0.02032...@posting.google.com>...
> johns...@aol.com (Johnstudioj) wrote in message news:<20020324015215...@mb-fq.aol.com>...
> > Ive skimmed thru here and haven't heard much mention of loss of pleasure or
> > intensity during orgasm, following a vasectomy. Unfortunately, thats not enough
> > for me. So I'll just ask the question.
> > Does a vasectomy have any impact on the sensation of orgasm? Thanks for
> > experienced answers on this.
>
> YOU ARE RIGHT TO ASK THIS QUESTION.
> I WAS TOLD BEFORE MY VASECTOMY THAT IT WOULDN'T AFFECT ANYTHING, A MAIN
> FEATURE OF EJACULATION BEFORE THE OP. WAS A PULSE COMING UP FROM MY
> BALLS AND A WAVE OF RELAXATION AS THE PRESSURE WAS EMPTIED FROM THEM
> (ESPECIALLY THE RIGHT). THIS HAS NOW GONE, AND THE ORGASAMS I NOW
> EXPERIENCE ARE 'TOP END ONLY'.THE SENSATIONS BEFORE EJACULATION ARE
> UNCHANGED AND THE VOLUME IS SIMILAR, BUT I NO LONGER GET THAT 'AFTER
> SEX' FEELING OF RELAXATION.
This is really weird. For me the post ejac. relaxation is caused by
the violent contractions elsewhere in my body when I cum--prostate,
pelvic floor, major muscle groups--not anything that happens in my
sack.
> SPECIALISTS WILL TELL YOU THAT THE SPERM IS ACTUALLY CARRIED UP
> THE VAS, BY THE FINE HAIRS INSIDE, DURING THE EMISSION PHASE (WHEN YOU
> SEXUALLY EXITED) AND THAT EJACULATION OCCURS FROM THE RESEVOIR UP THE
> TOP.
Ummmm. . .I don't think "specialists" would say anything about "fine
hairs" in the vas tubes. There aren't any!
>THIS IS TRUE, HOWEVER THERE ARE PULSES INDUCED IN THE VAS DURING
> EJACULATION AS WELL. THE STRENGTH AND IMPORTANCE OF THESE PULSES MUST
> VARY CONSIDERABLY BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS. BELIEVE THAT IN MY CASE THEY
> WERE VERY IMPORTANT TO RELIEVE PRESSURE.
I'm not at all sure contractions in the tubes are ended by vasectomy.
If I go without ejaculation for more than a day or two, I often get a
feeling of pressure in my sack. But ejaculation always makes it go
away. My theory is that when I ejaculate, contraction in my vas tubes
below the sealed points force some sperm out through tiny fissures.
One thing I *know*. Just before I ejaculate my balls pull up the way
they did before the vasectomy, so something BIG is still going on in
there!
>IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO
> WITH DIFFERENT RATES OF SPERM PRODUCTION, OR RESTRICTIONS LOW DOWN
> THAT NEED CLEARING THROUGH OR SOMETHING. I AM LEFT WITH BALLS THAT
> CONSTANTLY FEEL UNDER PRESSURE AND ARE VULNERABLE TO ACHES AND DULL
> PAINS ALL THE TIME.
Try ejaculating more, as I said above. Another thing: As I recall,
your vasectomy is pretty recent. The first year after mine I used to
get mild soreness at the cut points the day after particularly good
sex (long delayed ejac. or more than one ejac. in a session). I
thought of it as a kind of sex hangover. It was never very serious,
disappeared after about a year. And it was always worth it! Maybe
you are having something similar.
> I AM DETERMINED TO RECTIFY THE PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH THE
> VASECTOMY, I FEEL LIKE I AM LIVING A SENTENCE OF PUNISHMENT, JUST FOR
> BEING A MAN.
Well, you did say you felt pressured into the vasectomy. Do you feel
your wife is punishing you in some way?
>IF I HAVE TO, THEN I WILL GET A REVERSAL, BUT I WOULD
> LIKE TO KNOW IF CONVERSION TO AN OPEN ENDED VASECTOMY WOULD RESTORE
> THINGS TO NEAR NORMAL. IF ANYONE HAS SOME EXPERIENCES THAT THEY THINK
> WOULD BE RELEVENT, COULD THEY LET ME KNOW?
I would really consider opening the vas ends before going for the
reversal. It is a cheaper, less elaborate procedure than reversal,
and it would definitely eliminate any possible back pressure problems.
Personally, I think you may still be "breaking in" your vasectomy,
and that your problems will disappear.
trifold
trifold
DROVE...@SUPANET.COM (john) wrote in message news:<41c6a9f0.02032...@posting.google.com>...
> johns...@aol.com (Johnstudioj) wrote in message news:<20020324015215...@mb-fq.aol.com>...
> > Ive skimmed thru here and haven't heard much mention of loss of pleasure or
> > intensity during orgasm, following a vasectomy. Unfortunately, thats not enough
> > for me. So I'll just ask the question.
> > Does a vasectomy have any impact on the sensation of orgasm? Thanks for
> > experienced answers on this.
>
> YOU ARE RIGHT TO ASK THIS QUESTION.
> I WAS TOLD BEFORE MY VASECTOMY THAT IT WOULDN'T AFFECT ANYTHING, A MAIN
> FEATURE OF EJACULATION BEFORE THE OP. WAS A PULSE COMING UP FROM MY
> BALLS AND A WAVE OF RELAXATION AS THE PRESSURE WAS EMPTIED FROM THEM
> (ESPECIALLY THE RIGHT). THIS HAS NOW GONE, AND THE ORGASAMS I NOW
> EXPERIENCE ARE 'TOP END ONLY'.THE SENSATIONS BEFORE EJACULATION ARE
> UNCHANGED AND THE VOLUME IS SIMILAR, BUT I NO LONGER GET THAT 'AFTER
> SEX' FEELING OF RELAXATION.
This is really weird. For me the post ejac. relaxation is caused by
the violent contractions elsewhere in my body when I cum--prostate,
pelvic floor, major muscle groups--not anything that happens in my
sack.
> SPECIALISTS WILL TELL YOU THAT THE SPERM IS ACTUALLY CARRIED UP
> THE VAS, BY THE FINE HAIRS INSIDE, DURING THE EMISSION PHASE (WHEN YOU
> SEXUALLY EXITED) AND THAT EJACULATION OCCURS FROM THE RESEVOIR UP THE
> TOP.
Ummmm. . .I don't think "specialists" would say anything about "fine
hairs" in the vas tubes. There aren't any!
>THIS IS TRUE, HOWEVER THERE ARE PULSES INDUCED IN THE VAS DURING
> EJACULATION AS WELL. THE STRENGTH AND IMPORTANCE OF THESE PULSES MUST
> VARY CONSIDERABLY BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS. BELIEVE THAT IN MY CASE THEY
> WERE VERY IMPORTANT TO RELIEVE PRESSURE.
I'm not at all sure contractions in the tubes are ended by vasectomy.
If I go without ejaculation for more than a day or two, I often get a
feeling of pressure in my sack. But ejaculation always makes it go
away. My theory is that when I ejaculate, contraction in my vas tubes
below the sealed points force some sperm out through tiny fissures.
One thing I *know*. Just before I ejaculate my balls pull up the way
they did before the vasectomy, so something BIG is still going on in
there!
>IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO
> WITH DIFFERENT RATES OF SPERM PRODUCTION, OR RESTRICTIONS LOW DOWN
> THAT NEED CLEARING THROUGH OR SOMETHING. I AM LEFT WITH BALLS THAT
> CONSTANTLY FEEL UNDER PRESSURE AND ARE VULNERABLE TO ACHES AND DULL
> PAINS ALL THE TIME.
Try ejaculating more, as I said above. Another thing: As I recall,
your vasectomy is pretty recent. The first year after mine I used to
get mild soreness at the cut points the day after particularly good
sex (long delayed ejac. or more than one ejac. in a session). I
thought of it as a kind of sex hangover. It was never very serious,
disappeared after about a year. And it was always worth it! Maybe
you are having something similar.
> I AM DETERMINED TO RECTIFY THE PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH THE
> VASECTOMY, I FEEL LIKE I AM LIVING A SENTENCE OF PUNISHMENT, JUST FOR
> BEING A MAN.
Well, you did say you felt pressured into the vasectomy. Do you feel
your wife is punishing you in some way?
>IF I HAVE TO, THEN I WILL GET A REVERSAL, BUT I WOULD
> LIKE TO KNOW IF CONVERSION TO AN OPEN ENDED VASECTOMY WOULD RESTORE
> THINGS TO NEAR NORMAL. IF ANYONE HAS SOME EXPERIENCES THAT THEY THINK
> WOULD BE RELEVENT, COULD THEY LET ME KNOW?
I would really consider opening the vas ends before going for the
reversal. It is a cheaper, less elaborate procedure than reversal,
and it would definitely eliminate any possible back pressure problems.
Personally, I think you may still be "breaking in" your vasectomy,
and that your problems will disappear over time.
trifold
David
> VASECTOMY, I FEEL LIKE I AM LIVING A SENTENCE OF PUNISHMENT, JUST FOR
> BEING A MAN. IF I HAVE TO, THEN I WILL GET A REVERSAL, BUT I WOULD
> LIKE TO KNOW IF CONVERSION TO AN OPEN ENDED VASECTOMY WOULD RESTORE
> THINGS TO NEAR NORMAL. IF ANYONE HAS SOME EXPERIENCES THAT THEY THINK
> WOULD BE RELEVENT, COULD THEY LET ME KNOW?
Hi John,
Do I remember correctly that you weren't too keen on the idea of vasectomy,
but did it for a quiet life?
I do wonder that if you feel you are "Living a life sentence" then open
ended conversion may not help you. It is true that only a small percentage
of ejaculate is actually produced in the testicles. It's also true that
orgasm and ejaculate volume vary greatly in all men (vasectomised or not),
and vary for a huge variety of reasons (physical and phsycological). I
wonder if your regret of having a vasectomy is part of the problem. Hence
open ended conversion may not solve
anything.
Open ended conversion would open up the testicle end, but the sperm would
not flow into the rest of the plumbing as it would still be sealed off.
Therefore it would not add to the ejaculate volume, and I suspect it
wouldn't get round the problem that you resent being sterile.
Physically I'd follow the advice Trifold posted. Mentally I think you should
give it a try to become accustomed to being sterile - it's not too long
since you have had it done and you might find it's something you can
ultimately accept. If you can't ultimately accept it then maybe talk to a
reversal specialist. I wouldn't move too fast on this - sounds like you have
already made one ill considered decision. If you do opt for a reversal be
very clear why you want one, and what the implications are for you.
David
trifold
"Trevor" <trev...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<Liun8.1335$kU2.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>...
> Good question. Loss of pleasure occurs in some men.
As a result of physical changes caused by vasectomy? How can we be
sure? What would be the mechanism? If the cause *is* physical, why
is it so extraordinarily rare? Why does it seem most common in men
who admit to not having wanted vasectomy in the first place?
>Chronic pain occurs
> in some men.
What do you mean by chronic? 3 months? A year? Longer? What kind
of "pain" are we talking about? Mild (like you notice it if you think
about it)? Or severe (like you can't get it out of your head)? Long
term studies show the latter kind is extraordinarily rare. And it can
be successfully treated. (Why do you never talk about treatments?)
Consider too that 500,000 men get vasectomies each year in the US
alone. It would not be surprising if some of these men develop pains
in their balls, because men (with and without vasectomies) *do*
develop pain in their balls, for all sorts of reasons.
>Antisperm antibodies are produced in up to 80% of men, and
> their long-term effects are not fully understood.
Longterm studies show no adverse effects. Read read read.
>This is why almost all
> urologists and doctors DO NOT elect to undergo vasectomy themselves.
There is no evidence of this.
> THEY KNOW. But it's a lucrative cash cow and too well-established to admit the
> uncertainties.
Ah. So we are back to your conspiracy theory. Doctors perform a
procedure on hundreds of thousands of men every year that they know to
be dangerous. Also, they falsify all that research that shows
vasectomy is safe, and successfully suppress the few honest doctors
around who are brave enough to find "the truth." They do all of this,
you say, for the money. But what kind of money are we talking about?
Vasectomy has got to be one of the cheapest procedures around. Who
makes money from it?
>Just like vaccinations, high-carbohydrate diets and
> pharmaceuticals. Read 'The Medical Mafia' by Guylaine Lanctot M.D.
Ah. So we are to listen to you, and gobble herbs only, shunning
"pharamceuticals?" Has it occurred to you perhaps your odd
self-treatment over the years is a factor in your various ills?
>
> How lucky do you feel? Bear in mind that the pro-vasectomy posters here
> only underwent the procedure a few years ago. Remember that a vasectomy is
> FOR LIFE, and not easily reversible like barrier methods. My problems with
> pain, loss of interest in sex, loss of pleasure and hormonal abnormalities
> only started 10-15 years AFTER vasectomy.
Many of us had vasectomies long ago. Mine is nearly 4 years old;
David's a bit older, still. And ask David L.. Or novas. Or any of
the other guys who had their vasectomies +20 years ago. (There are
several such stories at the stories section of the website
www.vasectomy-information.com.)
Consider too that just because B happens after A that doesn't mean A
caused B. You began experiencing what you say are hormonal problems
10-15 years after your vasectomy, losing interest and pleasure in sex.
Maybe your just getting old, Trevor! Or maybe you should stop going
abroad to meet women, and start looking around where you live. (I
refer to your earlier statments here that English women aren't worthy
of you.) Or maybe your hormones went off due to various lifestyle
factors you have chosen, like a diet of herbs. Who knows? Why are
you so sure vasectomy is the cause of your problems?
trifold
john
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BEING STERILE. I HAD THOUGHT THIS
PART OF IT THROUGH VERY CAREFULLY BEFORE THE OP, AS I HAD ASSUMED THAT
REGRETS ON THIS FRONT WERE THE REASON WHY THEY SAY DON'T DO IT IF YOU
ARE BEING COERCED INTO IT.
TRIFOLD, YOUR COMMENT WAS INTERESTING AND COULD BE INTERPRETED
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY I.E. YOU ALSO GET TENSION IN YOUR BALLS, BUT THE
PRESSURE IS RELIEVED AT EJACULATION BECAUSE THE CLOSED VASECTOMY WAS
NOT CARRIED OUT VERY WELL AND THE LOWER TUBES LEAK! YOU'RE LUCKY ! I
THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE MECHANISM FOR EMPTYING PRESSURE STILL
POTENTIALLY EXISTS AS I HAVE HAD ONE VERY SMALL PULSE IN A TUBE SINCE
THE OP. I THINK IT MUST HAVE FOUND A LITTLE SPACE TO SHUFFLE UP THE
PRESSURE SLIGHTLY IN ONE TUBE (OR A MINOR RUPTURE). MY FEELINGS ARE
THAT 1/ IF THE TUBES WERE OPENED THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD PULSE AS
OFTEN AS NECCESSARY TO KEEP THE PRESSURE DOWN, AND THIS WOULD BRING
ABOUT THE SATISFACTION ON EJACULATION AS WELL 2/ IF I PUT UP WITH IT
FOR TOO LONG I COULD END UP WITH SERIOUS DAMAGE AND LONG TERM SEVERE
PVP WHICH WOULD NOT BE AS EASILY CURED, SO I WOULD BE BETTER ACTING AS
SOON AS POSSIBLE. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO HAS HAD
A CONVERSION, AND TO KNOW IF THINGS FELT DIFFERENT.
JOHN
trifold
DROVE...@SUPANET.COM (john) wrote in message news:
> TRIFOLD, YOUR COMMENT WAS INTERESTING AND COULD BE INTERPRETED
> SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY I.E. YOU ALSO GET TENSION IN YOUR BALLS, BUT THE
> PRESSURE IS RELIEVED AT EJACULATION BECAUSE THE CLOSED VASECTOMY WAS
> NOT CARRIED OUT VERY WELL AND THE LOWER TUBES LEAK! YOU'RE LUCKY !
Actually, some leakage is very common. The evidence is the prevalence
of "sperm granuloma," pea-size lumps in the scrotum that form around
the cut points when sperm leaks and the body reacts. These can be
slightly painful when squeezed, but often aren't; and they generally
disappear within a couple of months. I wonder if some of the soreness
you are feeling could be due to these? Several studies show their
presence early after vasectomy is associated with an absence of
epidydimal swelling due to back pressure. So they *are* a good thing.
>I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE MECHANISM FOR EMPTYING PRESSURE STILL
> POTENTIALLY EXISTS AS I HAVE HAD ONE VERY SMALL PULSE IN A TUBE SINCE
> THE OP.
Well, a good sign, then.
>I THINK IT MUST HAVE FOUND A LITTLE SPACE TO SHUFFLE UP THE
> PRESSURE SLIGHTLY IN ONE TUBE (OR A MINOR RUPTURE). MY FEELINGS ARE
> THAT 1/ IF THE TUBES WERE OPENED THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD PULSE AS
> OFTEN AS NECCESSARY TO KEEP THE PRESSURE DOWN, AND THIS WOULD BRING
> ABOUT THE SATISFACTION ON EJACULATION AS WELL 2/ IF I PUT UP WITH IT
> FOR TOO LONG I COULD END UP WITH SERIOUS DAMAGE AND LONG TERM SEVERE
> PVP WHICH WOULD NOT BE AS EASILY CURED, SO I WOULD BE BETTER ACTING AS
> SOON AS POSSIBLE. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO HAS HAD
> A CONVERSION, AND TO KNOW IF THINGS FELT DIFFERENT.
I do hope you hear from someone. Conversion to open-ended I think is
happening more often these days, although generally as a treatment for
pvp. Since "anesthetic ejaculation" of the sort you are experiencing
is even rarer than pvp, I doubt many men out there have had a
conversion to treat it. For me the good news is that you have
experienced lately some of the same "pulses" in your sack that you say
you have been missing since your vasectomy. (I'm still not sure what
they are, though! I *have* heard of "clitoral orgasms," but never
"scrotal" ones!)
If you decide for conversion, it shouldn't be any more complicated
than the original vasectomy, I'm guessing. And recovery shouldn't be
much worse. (You will have to shave again, though!) If you are
seriously considering this route, you should check out Ken Reda's page
at the website (www.vasectomy-information.com), in the "alternative
procedures" section. It is a very clear description of the method and
its advantages.
BTW, have you got the "all clear" yet?
trifold
David
any evidence that vasectomy makes a difference to this.
2) the "doctors and vasecomy" argument has been covered here in detail -
reposting it repeatedly doesn't make it true - it still remains false. It's
still a nonsensical, pointless argument.
3) can you completely discount all phsycological effects? Even Steve
grudgingly agrees
that these could have a bearing.
David
Steve Law
1) David ignores the studies in MedLine that show animals have shown
atrophy of the testis *DUE* to vasectomy. The truth similar studies
have not been done on man; that is measure before vasectomy and then
wait five years and measure again. There are MedLine studies that
indicate the animal studies relate to men by the change in the FSH
over five years.
2) Using false arguments like women urologists begs the question (see
your David's Web Site). On elective surgeries, like this, doctor's use
of the surgery is a good sign of their overall trust. Urologists have
the lowest rates and planned parenthood, urologists, and other vested
pro-vasectomy organizations would hail if otherwise.
3) Yes, there are psychological effects; both pro and con; but to use
psychological effects as way to explain away the physical effects does
a disservice to the patient. It is most likely, that the psychological
effects flow from the negative physical effects, not the other way
around. [It is too easy to blame the patient, rather than the
practice.]
End of Thread for me.
Steve L
"Been There, Done That, Still Paying The Price"
"David" <da...@brown6669.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<a7qrmm$nei$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
troutmas...@nospam.org
I know the crap a couple people here write about post-op pain and
problems are scaring the shit out of you. They scared me, too, when I
first started researching a vasectomy.
Yes, it is POSSIBLE that there could be some post-vas pain. However,
it is extremely unlikely in my lay opinion. I think research backs
that up. Of the dozens of men I've run into or talked to that have had
vasectomies, not one has had a problem. My doctor has done hundreds or
more, and has not had one problem with any of his patients.
So, while it is POSSIBLE, it is unlikely. It is also quite POSSIBLE
that you will get hit by a car in the next 10 years, or that you will
get cancer. Not a pretty thought, but true.
Getting a vasectomy is one of the safest operations you can get if
it's done by a skilled well-practiced doctor.
As to answering your question, my orgasms have been the same since my
vasectomy a year ago. And I've had no problems.
Don't worry about it. If getting a vasectomy is something you want to
do, to be sterile, then go for it. Chances of complications are very
slight.
David
> 1) David ignores the studies in MedLine that show animals have shown
> atrophy of the testis *DUE* to vasectomy. The truth similar studies
> have not been done on man; that is measure before vasectomy and then
> wait five years and measure again. There are MedLine studies that
> indicate the animal studies relate to men by the change in the FSH
> over five years.
The evidence I believe trevor referred to was specifically his onw
testicles. As you will recall from the "Amazing shrinking/growing balls"
thread that you were involved in, you also cited your own testicular
measurments as scientific evidence. When questioned about these measurements
I recall the waters getting very murky and no actual answers coming forward.
I would suggest that as scientific evidence this doesn't cut the mustard.
I would also remind you that whislt mammalian data is useful and necessary,
often the data isn't replicated in man. Some mammalian species are closer to
man than other in some respects but you can't make the assumptions that you
do that all mammalian data is replicated in humans. That's why human studies
are done.
I don't "Forget" - but I do have a broad , subjective view. Your viewpoint
inclines you to be very narrow and subjective about medical information
>
> 2) Using false arguments like women urologists begs the question (see
> your David's Web Site). On elective surgeries, like this, doctor's use
> of the surgery is a good sign of their overall trust. Urologists have
> the lowest rates and planned parenthood, urologists, and other vested
> pro-vasectomy organizations would hail if otherwise.
Using women urologists isn't a false argument - they do exist. It's also an
argument put forward by others, not just me. Urologists DO NOT have the
lowest rate. If you want to post this you HAVE to prove it. You cannot do
this, as you have simply made it up.
>
> 3) Yes, there are psychological effects; both pro and con; but to use
> psychological effects as way to explain away the physical effects does
> a disservice to the patient. It is most likely, that the psychological
> effects flow from the negative physical effects, not the other way
> around. [It is too easy to blame the patient, rather than the
> practice.]
I asked trevor if he could discount all phsycological effects completely. I
don't - I was asking if he did.
>
> End of Thread for me.
another ducking out then.
David
Bilirubin
"Steve Law" <stev...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:47cbbd02.02032...@posting.google.com...
> Urologists have
> the lowest rates and planned parenthood, urologists, and other vested
> pro-vasectomy organizations would hail if otherwise.
I'm calling you out on this Steve. Put up or shut up. You have to prove at a
minimum 1) a causal link between volunteering to undergo a procedure and
confidence in its overall safety (which will rule out other contributing
factors are personal choice regarding desire to reproduce, etc.) and 2)
prove that Uros undergo the procedure at a lower rate that the general
population. You can offer your own "informal study if you'd like, but I will
demand it be methodologically sound. And I want to see numbers.
"Being finished" with the thread is unacceptable when you are, from my
perspective as a scientist, providing your opinion as fact in a forum
designed to educate men. Let us see your evidence. If you refuse I will be
forced to conclude that you have no proof and will do my utmost to hound you
each and every time you post this nonsense on this board to ensure that men
are not misled into thinking that you might know what you are talking about.
Jason
Steve Law
I will do my best to answer you queries:
1) End of thread was meant so that we don't just don't get into
another circular argument like in the past with David and Trifold. If
you enjoyed those search the archives. But I see no reason for David,
Trifold and I to go round and round. David made a point or three; I
responded; and left the finish to David. As I will do with this post
also.
2) When long term complications began showing in my vasectomy I went
to 4 urologist in a 4 months span. Why 4? Because of the answers they
were giving me. See prior post under reversal a week or so ago. Of the
four, all admitted to not having a vasectomy. I did not ask them a lot
of details like number of children, etc. All were over 40 but less
than 50. One had a father who was also a urologist and the son (who I
saw) said his dad had not had one. I then called around and could not
find an office that would say whether the doctor had a vasectomy. I
got some honest 'no he hasn't' to 'I don't know' to 'We don't give out
that information.' This is a town with no shortage of urologists, I
did not exhaust the list; population is over 1.5 million.
Why four doctors? Because of the four none would do a reversal unless
it was to have a child, they said that was AUA guidelines. So I called
around the country and talked to a few urologists directly (if calling
long distance, they take you more seriously and are willing to call
back). I found a doctor in a very large metropolis that specialized in
reversals - did 2 - 5 per week. Just like with a vasectomy itself you
want someone who has experience in reversals.
3) I agree that finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy has little
to do with the surgery skills involved. If you decide to have a
vasectomy you want the best and most experienced surgeon.
The reason for finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy is that you
will find that it is difficult to do. If the surgery is so safe,
especially long term complications, urologists should have the highest
rates of the surgery due to their having the best knowledge and trust
in the procedure. If you find a surgeon who has had the procedure, use
him for your consultation even if you don't use him for your surgery.
If you can't find a surgeon who has had the procedure take the hint.
Remember: Their are no free lunches. Vasectomy is not a free lunch
health wise.
btw: I know more female gynecologists who have had tubal than male
urologists who have had vasectomies (urologists = 0; gynecologists =
2).
Steve L
"Been There, Done That, Still Paying The Price"
P.S. Please don't be mad if I let you have the last post.
"Bilirubin" <bili...@nospam.stopdropandroll.com> wrote in message news:<4omo8.12581$e94....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
David
it?
You repeatedly claim that your "vasectomy and doctors" argument is fact and
have been asked repeatedly to prove it.
Jason asked you to prove it or shut up.
> 1) End of thread was meant so that we don't just don't get into
> another circular argument like in the past with David and Trifold. If
> you enjoyed those search the archives. But I see no reason for David,
> Trifold and I to go round and round. David made a point or three; I
> responded; and left the finish to David. As I will do with this post
> also.
The reason we get into circular threads is mainly because you wander off the
topic and won't answer questions, post sources to your "facts", and post
nonsense like this theory of yours. I've no real desire to indulge in them,
but if you will post unsubstantiatied theories as fact and re-write journals
then it's fair that we respond.
>
> 2) When long term complications began showing in my vasectomy I went
> to 4 urologist in a 4 months span. Why 4? Because of the answers they
> were giving me. See prior post under reversal a week or so ago. Of the
> four, all admitted to not having a vasectomy. I did not ask them a lot
> of details like number of children, etc. All were over 40 but less
> than 50. One had a father who was also a urologist and the son (who I
> saw) said his dad had not had one. I then called around and could not
> find an office that would say whether the doctor had a vasectomy. I
> got some honest 'no he hasn't' to 'I don't know' to 'We don't give out
> that information.' This is a town with no shortage of urologists, I
> did not exhaust the list; population is over 1.5 million.
>
If this is your proof, then the posters that have said that 3/5 urologists
in the practice they go to have had a vasectomy is equaly valid.
> Why four doctors? Because of the four none would do a reversal unless
> it was to have a child, they said that was AUA guidelines. So I called
> around the country and talked to a few urologists directly (if calling
> long distance, they take you more seriously and are willing to call
> back). I found a doctor in a very large metropolis that specialized in
> reversals - did 2 - 5 per week. Just like with a vasectomy itself you
> want someone who has experience in reversals.
So what is the point? If considering a reversal we always say shop around
for a doctor you are happy with. I wouldn't go to one who does one
occasionally. In line with your theory, did you elect for a specialist who
has had one himself - if not, why not.
>
> 3) I agree that finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy has little
> to do with the surgery skills involved. If you decide to have a
> vasectomy you want the best and most experienced surgeon.
I will post this on the website, and will refer to it every time you post
your theory.
>
> The reason for finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy is that you
> will find that it is difficult to do. If the surgery is so safe,
> especially long term complications, urologists should have the highest
> rates of the surgery due to their having the best knowledge and trust
> in the procedure. If you find a surgeon who has had the procedure, use
> him for your consultation even if you don't use him for your surgery.
> If you can't find a surgeon who has had the procedure take the hint.
Rewording it doesn't make it fact steve - it's still a nonsensical
irrelevant argument. How you will be cared for, and complication rates are
what is relevant, not this daft notion.
Now answer Bilirubin's question.
David
trifold
> Jason,
>
> I will do my best to answer you queries:
>
> 1) End of thread was meant so that we don't just don't get into
> another circular argument like in the past with David and Trifold. If
> you enjoyed those search the archives. But I see no reason for David,
> Trifold and I to go round and round. David made a point or three; I
> responded; and left the finish to David. As I will do with this post
> also.
You omit the fact that for a couple of years now this has been your
practice. When conftronted with requests that you provide evidence of
your claims or that you respond to specific contradictions of your
logic (or your interpretation of evidence) you turn tail and run.
>
> 2) When long term complications began showing in my vasectomy I went
> to 4 urologist in a 4 months span. Why 4? Because of the answers they
> were giving me. See prior post under reversal a week or so ago. Of the
> four, all admitted to not having a vasectomy.
So this is the basis of your constand claim that urologists don't have
vasectomies!
>I did not ask them a lot
> of details like number of children, etc. All were over 40 but less
> than 50.
Rather relevant information, wouldn't you say?
>One had a father who was also a urologist and the son (who I
> saw) said his dad had not had one. I then called around and could not
> find an office that would say whether the doctor had a vasectomy. I
> got some honest 'no he hasn't' to 'I don't know' to 'We don't give out
> that information.'
How very suspicious! A receptionist sneakily replied she didn't know
whether her boss had had a vasectomy! Oh yeah, there is plenty of
evidence here!
>
> Why four doctors? Because of the four none would do a reversal unless
> it was to have a child, they said that was AUA guidelines. So I called
> around the country and talked to a few urologists directly (if calling
> long distance, they take you more seriously and are willing to call
> back). I found a doctor in a very large metropolis that specialized in
> reversals - did 2 - 5 per week. Just like with a vasectomy itself you
> want someone who has experience in reversals.
As we have pointed out, and as the website shows, reversal is
practised to deal with pvp in some cases.
>
> 3) I agree that finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy has little
> to do with the surgery skills involved. If you decide to have a
> vasectomy you want the best and most experienced surgeon.
Let's see. How many years has it taken to wring this concession from
you?
>
> The reason for finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy is that you
> will find that it is difficult to do. If the surgery is so safe,
> especially long term complications, urologists should have the highest
> rates of the surgery due to their having the best knowledge and trust
> in the procedure.
Faulty logic.
>If you find a surgeon who has had the procedure, use
> him for your consultation even if you don't use him for your surgery.
Faulty logic. It makes more sense to consult with the doctor doing
the surgery
> If you can't find a surgeon who has had the procedure take the hint.
What hint?
>
> Remember: Their are no free lunches. Vasectomy is not a free lunch
> health wise.
Faulty comparison. Better: Some people choke to death while eating
lunch or die of food poisoning. Therefore, take precautions, and know
you run a risk.
>
> btw: I know more female gynecologists who have had tubal than male
> urologists who have had vasectomies (urologists = 0; gynecologists =
> 2).
Who you know--or say you know--is of very little interest. The
statistical studies that show complication rates from tubal ligation
(and the general anaesthesia involved) vs. vasectomy is of interest.
(At least for those of us with partners they live with instead of
visiting in distant lands.)
trifold
trifold
> All,
>
> 1) David ignores the studies in MedLine that show animals have shown
> atrophy of the testis *DUE* to vasectomy. The truth similar studies
> have not been done on man; that is measure before vasectomy and then
> wait five years and measure again. There are MedLine studies that
> indicate the animal studies relate to men by the change in the FSH
> over five years.
As David says, the applicability of animal studies to humans is not
clear. Could you identify the FSH studies in Medline that you say
suggest otherwise?
In fact, studies show that the testicular changes *sometimes* observed
after vasectomy relate only to sperm-making. I don't care about
sperm-making!
Studies looking at testosterone, which I *do* care about, show
testosterone remains unchanged as long as 20 years after vasectomy--or
that it is even higher in vasectomised men than in their
non-vasectomised brethren. (By the way, studies suggest that
testicular changes related to sperm-making seem caused by sperm
back-pressure. So the open-ended version of vasectomy--or versions
that don't involve cutting and sealing the vas tubes too close to the
testicals--are likely to not have the same effect, meaningless as it
is.)
trifold
trifold
The other point to make is that when pvp *does* develop, it can be
successfully treated. When I was looking into vasectomy, I learned
(from some of the documents we now have up at the website) that pvp
does occur, although rarely. But I also learned it is treatable.
Based on this, I went ahead. It has always struck me as odd that the
scare-mongering vasectomy bashers, who *say* they are motivated by a
concern for men who might develop pvp, never talk about how to help
men who *do* develop it. Yet there are treatments. We discuss
several at the website. We also point there to abstracts of medical
studies that address successful treatment of pvp.
trifold
troutmas...@nospam.org wrote in message news:<3ca13acf...@netnews.attbi.com>...
Steve Law
I hope you got your entertainment's value worth from the
Steve/David/TriFold circle jerk.
He who dares question the David/TriFold hegemony of provasectomy
vitrol will be summarily over attacked and over-responded too - the
new tactic to keep the dissenters at bay.
Only those that have 'statistical flukes' to report need post here.
Steve L
Bilirubin
> Jason,
>
> I will do my best to answer you queries:
>
> 1) End of thread was meant so that we don't just don't get into
> another circular argument like in the past with David and Trifold.
Not a question I had either. That was to draw you back into the conversation
because you always run when the questions start flying.
> 2) When long term complications began showing in my vasectomy I went
> to 4 urologist in a 4 months span. Why 4? <snip>
0/4. The sample size is way too small to be considered statistically valid.
Considering the low rate of v's in the general population, you would need an
extremely large sample to show a lower than average rate of v's among uros.
You have no proof (or data for that matter); your arguement is empty.
Nothing here about a causal link to lower than average rate of vs among uros
being due to a fear of the procedure, but this is not surprising because you
have no link of a lower than average rate to begin with.
> 3) I agree that finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy has little
> to do with the surgery skills involved. If you decide to have a
> vasectomy you want the best and most experienced surgeon.
I've had one already, thanks. He did 5 that afternoon. I asked no one in the
clinic if they had had them because it never occured to me to be a
meaningful question. I still don't.
> The reason for finding a urologist who has had a vasectomy is that you
> will find that it is difficult to do. If the surgery is so safe,
> especially long term complications, urologists should have the highest
> rates of the surgery due to their having the best knowledge and trust
> in the procedure. If you find a surgeon who has had the procedure, use
> him for your consultation even if you don't use him for your surgery.
> If you can't find a surgeon who has had the procedure take the hint.
Flawed logic flowing from a faulty premise. It would be hard to find because
of the relatively low incidence of vasectomy to begin with!
> Remember: Their are no free lunches. Vasectomy is not a free lunch
> health wise.
I don't understand what you mean here. I am sterile, and I have no pain.
Where is the tab? And don't forget, the human body can adapt to the presence
of steel plates and pins, my vas was much more mild than that.
> btw: I know more female gynecologists who have had tubal than male
> urologists who have had vasectomies (urologists = 0; gynecologists =
> 2).
Might this not be due to social biases which place the responsibility for
family planning upon the woman? Also, you still need 1) a much larger sample
and 2) that causal link for this number to have any merit. And then there is
that pesky 3/5 observation made by another participant that Dave reminded us
of--3/9 is 33% which is HIGHER than the rate of vasectomy in New Zealand,
the country with the highest rate of vs in the world.
And the sample size is still too small for that observation to have any
meaning!
Sorry Steve, but I'm going to ask you to drop this piece of your rap because
its misleading and WRONG.
Until I see some proof,
Jason
> Steve L
> "Been There, Done That, Still Paying The Price"
>
> P.S. Please don't be mad if I let you have the last post.
I'm not mad. I expect it from you whenever you are pressed to provide
support for your assertions.
phlox
Sorry Steve - You seem to be the statistical fluke - and on your own
evidence too.
You are the Weakest Link
Good Bye
Phlox
David
> He who dares question the David/TriFold hegemony of provasectomy
> vitrol will be summarily over attacked and over-responded too - the
> new tactic to keep the dissenters at bay.
>
> Only those that have 'statistical flukes' to report need post here.
>
> Steve L
Steve - you should at least try to analyse posting habits of regulars here
before making such comments. specifically what others will, or wont respond
to.
The group exists to foster discussion on vasectomy, both negative and
positive. Holding an anti-vasectomy opinion will largely go unchallenged,
but posting "Facts", "statistics" etc will always get a response. We do try
and draw those wish to post opinions into discussion though. That's part of
why Usenet exists anway.
I don't always respond to every post. For example, over the last year
probably 50% of Trevor's posts I haven't responded to. Likewise not all of
yours have had a response.
In Trevor's case, half of the time he is posting opinons, and he's entitled
to do that, so I simply leave him alone. When he starts on the usual
"Vasectomy and doctors" or other "Facts" then I will respond. Unfortunately,
about 99.9% of your posts contain "Facts", "Vasectomy and doctors" etc,
therefore you get repeatedly challenged on the factual content of your
posts.
The group has a responsibility to be accurate and open about facts and
statistics IMHO. Therefore if somebody posts what they claim to be factual
it's perfectly reasonable to request sources, see the original etc. You do
this to us, and we do it to you - that's perfectly fair and reasonable.
What specifically causes the circular threads is repeated posting of what
you present as known facts, yet all of us (including you) know they are far
from that.
The other problem is very well summed up by a recent email I had from a
detractor - the punchline of which was "We are entitled to be biassed".
There exists this idea that those who are opposed to vasectomy for whatever
reason have a right to post whatever they want - no matter how false -
without any form of challenge on the factual content of their posts.
The other point I rather resent is you implying that I'm totally
pro-vasectomy. I would point out that the website accepts content from
anyone good enough to contribute, and in many cases this is stories from
those who have had a negative experience. I post them to the website without
fear of favour. If I was as "Pro" as you like to claim, then I think it's
fair to say the website content would not contain the negative stories it
does, also content you and Trevor have submitted would not be there either.
My stance is specifically "pro informed choice". That means that if someone
decides to either proceed or not that's fine, but making an informed
decision is what I am trying to promote. For example, I'm having an ongoing
email conversation with a man who has already had problems but is keen on a
vasectomy. All along I've tried to steer him away from having it done. Also
in the chatroom as well as on group the advice isn't always to go ahead.
If you want to have a go at me - fine. Just get your facts right. I'm not
the ogre you think I am, and it's fair to say I do much, much more to
promote the flip side of the coin than you do. And my way achieves results.
David
Ugly
proclaiming:
>Ive skimmed thru here and haven't heard much mention of loss of pleasure or
>intensity during orgasm, following a vasectomy. Unfortunately, thats not enough
>for me. So I'll just ask the question.
>Does a vasectomy have any impact on the sensation of orgasm? Thanks for
>experienced answers on this.
March 24 this was posted? Well anyhow I finally did it yesterday, confronted my doctor of
my intentions. My wife's pregnancy was difficult, but through it we had a lovely baby
girl. We both don't feel we can deal with a second child emotionally, physically or
financially, so I told my doctor my desire to have a vasectomy. That brings up many
questions, most likely usual ones, but among them are what you have posted. Is there a
FAQ for this newsgroup?
David
"Ugly" <baba...@drlauramail.com> wrote in message
news:psDJ8.146438$ah_.1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Yes - www.vasectomy-information.com
There is a FAQ with links for more information on the risks and benefits, a
distillation of advice from the newsgroup, online survey covering many of
the aspects you mention, and links to medical publications and so on.
Please ask any questions here though, you are bound to get a variety of
responses!
David
trifold
>
> March 24 this was posted? Well anyhow I finally did it yesterday, confronted my doctor of
> my intentions. My wife's pregnancy was difficult, but through it we had a lovely baby
> girl. We both don't feel we can deal with a second child emotionally, physically or
> financially, so I told my doctor my desire to have a vasectomy. That brings up many
> questions, most likely usual ones, but among them are what you have posted. Is there a
> FAQ for this newsgroup?
Yes. There is an FAQ--and much more--at
www.vasectomy-information.com. You will even find pictures and video
to help you know what you are getting into. And suggestions re:
issues you should take up with your doctor before the op. And lots of
personal stories from men who have been through it, as well as an
online survey.
As for your question, almost everyone says there is no change in
pleasure after vasectomy. Some say it feels even better.
trifold
Trevor
vasectomy. Doctors will try to convince them that it is all in their head
but it's really the medics themselves who suffer from 'vasectomy aversion
disorder'. As for me, the first 10 years produced little noticeable
change, although it's hard to remember exactly. Then the 23-feet of
epididymal tubules, through which even a human hair can not pass, became
stuffed with dead sperm and testicular fluids causing chronic pain till now
(22 years post-vasectomy). Sexual sensations are much reduced, and I also
need testosterone replacement therapy. The basic fact is that vasectomy is
a quick and easy sell short-term, but the years take their toll on
testicular function and sexual pleasure, particularly if you've had the
closed-end procedure performed by a sloppy surgeon.
"Ugly" <baba...@drlauramail.com> wrote in message
news:psDJ8.146438$ah_.1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
troutmas...@nospam.org
wrote:
Many men who never had a vasectomy also need testosterone therapy.
How do you know it was the vasectomy that caused it?
Apparently some of the potential (not likely) side effects of
vasectomy can be solved by getting an open-ended vasectomy instead of
a "regular" one.
In any case, it is my opinion after doing a lot of research before
getting my vasectomy, that side effects of any kind are rare.
Go into with open eyes and an open mind, but don't get scared off by
the doom-sayers here (most of which is one person who posts
repeatedly)...
Trevor
-- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
<troutmas...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:3cf9d5f5...@netnews.attbi.com...
dude
pills. The time I spend "under the knife" were the best 20 minutes ever!
As far as the problem with backed up sperm, have you considered what happens
to a "celibate" person? What happens to their sperm? I higly recommend
this procedure for anyone who is serious about birth control.
"Trevor" <trev...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1BRJ8.22909$wd3.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Visegrip
already failed first test, 2 long dead one's still floating around.
Don't want that super-sperm that is hiding out waiting to get in.
After the all clear, it will really be even better than before!
trifold
> How long since your vasectomy, Dude? Probably only a few years, if that.
> Not long enough for your tubes to get stuffed with necrotic sperm and cause
> problems.
>
> In the celibate, sperm are ejaculated either by masturbation or nocturnal
> emission : nature's safety valve. With a closed-end vasectomy, which the
> vast majority of men have -- they are rarely given any option -- there is no
> natural outlet. The testes then struggle to absorb the 200 million sperm a
> day produced on each side. Some guys can cope; some do not and suffer
> complications.
I'm not at all sure wet dreams are caused by lack of ejaculation. In
anycase, the complications you describe are much more likely in men
cut and sealed too close to their balls, as apparently happened to
you. Standard practice, even in close ended vasectomy, is to be cut
mid vas, leaving more vas tube for sperm to spread out along.
But you are right: it is probably best to go with the open ended
procedure. Avoiding vasectomy altogether probably won't be an
appealing alternative to many guys, though.
Trevor
> cut and sealed too close to their balls.
How do you know this?
From what you are saying I have grounds for claiming negligence on the part
of my surgeon?
Ugly
proclaiming:
>I have to disagree. Sex is better than ever. No condoms or birth control
>pills.
Because of the medication my wife has taken for diabetes, she has never used birth control
pills. The infamous "pull out" method was a preferred technique. Despite claims that it
rarely worked as birth control, it worked too well since I had always wanted a baby. Now
that we have one, I'm overjoyed with ther, even if she's currently seeing what's in the
garbage can to play with. And old CD that I discarded. But since Zophie's birth my wife
has insisted on condoms. Always hated them, so to be free of them once again - for life -
is a dream I wish to see. I've got my wonderful baby. Now my desire for reproduction is
finished.
Jason G
> But since Zophie's birth my wife has insisted on condoms. Always hated
>them, so to be free of them once again -> for life -
>is a dream I wish to see. I've got my wonderful baby. Now my desire for
> reproduction is finished.
Do it, man. It is so worth it. Since you are in a committed relationship
and can eschew condoms, I can say that there is no better feeling that coming
inside your woman and having no fear of pregnancy, just the pleasure.
--
Jason G
"It's a lot of work being this shallow and sarcastic day in and day out."
-Abbie F., a.s.c.
Ron B
Once you have the 'all clear' there is nothing better than making love
knowing that you will NOT have any chance of having an accident.
No condoms, just pure sex, making love and without the fear of getting your
partner pregnant.
The pleasure is enhanced, but the real benefit is knowing that you have no
chance of having an unwanted pregnancy.
OTOH, I have found that organisms are more pleasurable, but perhaps that is
just knowing that I will not father a child as a result....
On 6/4/02 2:32 AM, in article adkb9...@enews1.newsguy.com, "Jason G"
<jrgusenet@REMOVE_ooo_THIS_xxx_PART_yahoo.com> wrote:6/4/02 2:32 AM