35 years post vasectomy
Luan
clinic 1,100 miles from my home. He offered his assistance as soon as I
told him my 16 dec. plans. He was with me for 8 days total. The surgery
went well. Doc told me to allow 3 months for swelling etc. to clear up.
Reversal is a pretty big deal both physically and financially. My friend
(DL) is retired from a banking position as well as a grain farm he sold a
few years ago. DL is 74 and was married for 42 years. His wife divorced
him and 2 years later died by her own hand. Her last request was for me
to scatter her ashes over her favorite place from my airplane - which I
did - in stormy weather for the family to view. DL told me about his
vasectomy and how he did not take quite enough time off work for healing.
He told me he had no pain problems after that. But on 21 dec. 2005 at 9 am
as we drove up interstate 39 in central Illinois he said this:
"A man cannot have satisfying sex after vasectomy. The pleasure of
feeling and knowing the sperm leave his body is absent. The feeling of
fullness after ejaculation prevents great sex. A man might have more sex
after vasectomy because he is never completely satisfied, but is it better
to have sex 5 times a week, or to have Great Sex 3 times a week -- I don't
know. I think vasectomy results in a lot of marital problems. I think
vasectomy is responsible for some of our high divorce rate in this
country. This is my opinion."
I have spent a lot of time with both DL and his wife over the past 30
years. We traveled together, took an 8 day raft trip through the Grand
Canyon, combined our farms for 2 years and worked side by side for many
months. I knew his opinion on everything, I thought. He sure surprised
me this time! He didn't lie to me, I just didn't ask the right question.
How could I - I never knew because everyone else I asked said sex was the
same after as before. I'll say this to everyone: Don't plan on anything
being the same after, don't even plan on having sex, I have found a few
men whose sex life ended just a few years after vasectomy. DL is having
plenty sex, I know, but I also know great sex is a very faded memory for
him as it is for me. I believe Great Sex, not more sex, is the strongest
bond a marriage can have. My pains seem to be gone so far as walking and
bending etc. but I have not had time to be sure about my reversal, it is
just 11 days. If great sex returns I will be very pleased but I am not
counting on it. I think the experts in this field are the men who have
had vasectomy long term. I think PVP victims need to be heard, however,
these men rarely talk.
One cute little item concerning my reversal: I had to lie, again, and say
I wanted fertility. My medical chart says I came in for reversal for
fertility reasons. If I did not have this in my record the surgery
couldn't be carried out in that clinic. It would cost me $500 more to move
the surgery to a hospital if I wanted my record to read "reversal for
pain". So remember: Figures don't lie but I figured it was worth 500 to
lie. - Pain problems may be under-reported. I have an e-mail address:
vasectomania @ yahoo.com Anyone who wants to view documents to verify my
vasectomy experience or even talk to me can reach me there. No need to
wonder, I have photos of my balls, photos of the doc and me, the bill for
reversal, and a passport to prove it all belongs to me. Luan
MRVAS...@gmail.com
the best sex of our lives. I'm sure others will say the same thing to
refute this ludicrous claim.
ROB
trif...@netscape.net
Luan wrote:
> I had reversal on 16 dec. 2005 .
I hope the reversal makes you feel better about having sex. As for me,
7 years post vasectomy (and at 54), sex feels the same as it always
did. I don't buy your claim that vasectomised men have more sex
because they never fully empty when they ejaculate and so need it again
the next day. I needed it again the next day before my vasectomy and I
still do. As for your implication that men w/problems lie about their
sex lives after vasectomy, and so we can't know the true numbers of men
with problems, I think that's bullshit. I think we (and doctors!) hear
MORE from men w/problems than we do from the others, because people
with problems seek help, and the rest just go about their regular
business. I also think that lots of things can interfere with how a
man experiences sex with his wife (or anyone else), and that for some
men, not being fertile, or feeling that their partner forced them into
vasectomy, can be one of those things. Also, men tend to have
vasectomies as they approach middle age--and with age lots of men begin
experiencing changes in their sex lives. So it is important in
retrospect for a man not to blame his vasectomy for things that might
simply be due to the aging proscess. As for your friend's claim that
vasectomy ruins marriages, I don't buy that either. If both parties
agree, vasectomy can make a marriage stronger by eliminating worry over
unwanted pregnancy without requiring the woman to take pills or the man
to wear a rubber. After vasectomy, sex can be for fun again and for
"that loving feeling."
trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
Steve
Rob - I am now 3 years post reversal - and my wife and I now have
better sex than ever, especially as compared to the 2.5 years of hell I
went through between the vasectomy and the reversal... there are other
experiences.... and they are not ludicrous claims but the very
personal experiences of those of us who have not had the positive
results you had.
as I have said before, there was a definite change in sensation at
ejaculation for me after the vasectomy. the 'release' I had
experienced before was not there. I chuckled for 3 months after the
reversal because things felt good again.
there are definitely those like yourself who have great results with no
second thoughts. there are also others of us who have had very
different results.
Steve
KC
made his life heaven on earth. He painted himself into a corner long
ago, and for him to even hint that the surgery didn't do as expected
would take more truthfulness than he could possibly muster.
MRVAS...@gmail.com
that I DO believe there is PVP, I just get tired of the trollish way
that it's portrayed, nothing more, nothing less!
All good medicine,
GREENFEATHER
tcwalk...@gmail.com
ways to present PVP as I'm sure we've all seen both.
Let's be honest, PVP is really only an issue for 2 groups of people.
1, those who have PVP and 2, those who are considering a vasectomy. If
you have had a vasectomy with no pain, which is the case for many who
post here, PVP is not really much of an issue. Indeed, the odds are
one will have a successful vasectomy.
I'm not a big fan of the posts from people who come in here and say "I
just had a successful vasectomy, I have no pain. PVP is overstated and
I think it is just done by religious zealots." If you had a successful
vasectomy and you are months out with no pain then good for you. Go
have sex with your wife. There is no need to add a footnote to your
post saying that PVP isn't really much of an issue and isn't a problem.
Just leave well enough alone. I do see plenty of these posts. "I
just had a vasectomy. I'm in no pain. My first ejaculation was
awesome. I don't know why people talk about PVP, my vasectomy was
super." Then I will ocasionally see one or two people reply back "Yep,
you're right. PVP is really rare and usually it's just the religous
types." or something to that effect.
Lurkers beware. The odds are that a vasectomy will be a useful surgery
and you have something like a 90 to 95% chance of having no problems.
Despite how PVP is presented or discussed in this group, trollish or in
an intellectual and thoughtful manner, it is an issue.
My summary of PVP is that a vasectomy causes changes to a man's
genitalia. Some men adapt to this change, some men do not. The reason
why some men do not adapt to the changes is what we don't understand
(David has a good discussion on his site of what happens after a
vasectomy (for example, microphages and such -- see
www.vasectomy-information.com). Some men get injured during the
surgery itself. Regardless, it is a complication that arises from the
changes to the vas and epididymis (sometimes nerves) after the surgery.
The kicker is that unlike many surgical complications that can be
treated or that will go away on their own (infection, hematoma, etc.)
this one is not treatable in many cases and it is a complication that
is life altering.
The issue that caused me to post this is not necessarily just things
brought up in this particular post. I just don't see the need
underlying the pattern of posting how great one's vasectomy went and
then taking a second to say that PVP is such a non-issue. Like I said
before, if you've already had a vasectomy with no pain, like many of
the people in this group, then PVP is a non-issue and easy to downplay.
I'm not trying to attack anyone, I just don't want the fact that PVP
happens to get lost in the shuffle. I know that no one here will come
right out and say that PVP doesn't exist, but the rhetoric and the
discussions some time hint at it.
TC
yabig23
months of unexplainable pain with no end in sight does tend to bend the
psyche a bit. I think back on most of 2004 when my PVP was at its
zenith and remember how angry and frustrated I was most of the time. As
TC said, if you don't have any problems then life is good. Very good.
If you do have major problems it's hell on earth as I will definitely
attest too. I think I also can speak for other pvp suffers in that the
worst part was not being properly informed ahead of time of how bad it
can really turn out to be. Certainly the risks warrant a bit more
discussion than some fine print on an app they hand you 10 minutes
before the procedure.
Would like to see some studies comparing sperm count before the vas
with incidence of PVP, levels of sperm antibodies, and maybe something
like an MRI to map out the testes and scrotum to make sure the vas
isn't twisted or too short or to detect any other anomaly before the
procedure. These tests should be optional but I have no doubt I would
have paid for them back then even knowing as little as I did about
potential complications. What could be more important than a little
extra due diligence on modifying ones manhood?
David
> There are some helpful ways to present PVP and some less than helpful
> ways to present PVP as I'm sure we've all seen both.
I actually agree with a lot of what you say. I personally think that
maintaining some sense of proportion and balance is necessary, and that
requires good posting practice from all.
> I'm not a big fan of the posts from people who come in here and say "I
> just had a successful vasectomy, I have no pain. PVP is overstated and
> I think it is just done by religious zealots." If you had a successful
> vasectomy and you are months out with no pain then good for you. Go
> have sex with your wife. There is no need to add a footnote to your
> post saying that PVP isn't really much of an issue and isn't a problem.
> Just leave well enough alone.
I think one of the reasons behind these posts is that men come to this forum
and discover discussions about something they didn't expect to find. They
then assume that they are going to get PVP, or at least are pretty wound up
about it, but are going to go ahead anyway. Consequently, when they have had
the vasectomy and found that all they got was a bit of bruising, swelling
and discomfort they then feel some sort of obligation to "Put the record
straight", and make it clear to others that some of the tales we see posted
here are not the norm - far from it. So it's my guess that these type of
posts will always exist, and in the main be motivated by discussions on PVP.
I'm not trying to make a point here - just stating a fact.
It's always been the case with the stories section that when I post a
negative one, I then get several positive one submitted, and several of the
people submitting them have stated the reason they want their story to be
published is to maintain some sense of balance, and to show that the stories
you read are not what most people experience.
> I do see plenty of these posts. "I
> just had a vasectomy. I'm in no pain. My first ejaculation was
> awesome. I don't know why people talk about PVP, my vasectomy was
> super."
I think this is the same point as above, and the same answer applies.
> The issue that caused me to post this is not necessarily just things
> brought up in this particular post. I just don't see the need
> underlying the pattern of posting how great one's vasectomy went and
> then taking a second to say that PVP is such a non-issue. Like I said
> before, if you've already had a vasectomy with no pain, like many of
> the people in this group, then PVP is a non-issue and easy to downplay.
> I'm not trying to attack anyone, I just don't want the fact that PVP
> happens to get lost in the shuffle. I know that no one here will come
> right out and say that PVP doesn't exist, but the rhetoric and the
> discussions some time hint at it.
Well, I think that nobody *should* say that it doesn't exist. I do think
that there is an onus upon all posters to discuss in a reasonable way, and
maintain a sense of balance on the issue. I think that many of the posts you
describe above are a reaction to what posters perceive as imbalance, from
whatever side the posting was from.
Regarding the religious motivation aspect - it does exist, but I don't think
droning on about it here has any real point though. I have to say that most
people doing serious research have found this out long before they come
here. However, I wouldn't suggest that this aspect is *never* mentioned
here. It's a valid point of view that is bound to get the odd airing.
Thankfully the discussion on negative aspects these days are reasonable -
those of us who have been here a long time will remember past discussions
that were a little acrimonious, and to an extent some of the long term
regulars will be a little tetchy at times because of the past. Nobody wants
to go back to how posting was a couple of years or more ago - it really
didn't help anybody, and certainly didn't further awareness of PVP.
We used to have a couple of posters who simply made things up. What the
motivation was we never did discover. One typical thread from the past went
along the lines of a poster making up a figure of satisfaction (50%) and
attributing it to a book. The poster included the book title and author, so
we contacted the author to see if that statement was made in any issue of
the book - it wasn't. The author was none other than Dr. Goldstein who
introduced NSV into the west, and is still at the cutting edge of vasectomy
techniques development. He was rather keen to have the record put straight.
When we did so, the response was that the doctor was in error! And so it
went on.
This type of incident was wholly typical of posting a few years back. The
posters genuinely felt that they were entitled to make up claims to further
their cause (whatever that was). Should that sort of posting have been
allowed unchallenged?
I think there is a way forward with PVP discussion, and to be honest we have
(mostly) achieved that. Specifically, for posters on either side of the
fence to respect other's right to have their say, and for all parties to
discuss reasonably. In the main that happens. I honestly think that
reasonable discussions do a lot more to raise awareness, and some of the
past discussions have simply put back the cause of promoting PVP awareness
by years.
There is this huge chasm between what men read about PVP on the web, and the
experiences of freinds, family and work colleagues that have had a vasectomy
actually experience. Men will go with the experience of those they trust,
knowing that the web is at times a strange place. I think that the existence
of this chasm, and the reaction to it by people considering a vasectomy
should be kept in mind.
--
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
http://vasectomy-news.blogspot.com