How long should you wait to have a reversal for pain.
Doug
for is some advice from guys that have had reversals because of pain and
guys thinking about it because of pain and other guys if you have or know of
advice.
I had my vas on Jan 17th (11 weeks ago, I know not so long) and it has not
turned out the way I was lead to believe it would. Besides the prostate
infection from the vas (another story) I still have a great deal of pain in
my testicals and other areas.
The pain at one point was getting better but now is getting worse. Every
time I go to the Dr he checks me out and says nothing is wrong the pain
should clear up. He put me on antibiotics but still nothing. The pain meds
help some but they are not a cure. I have seen 1 different Dr's that is at
the same office as the Dr that did the vas he echoed the same thing. At this
point I called my Dr last Thursday, this Monday, and just called his
emergency line and still no call. At this point, I think he is tired of me
since he is not calling me back. I guess it's time to get a new Dr and maybe
call a lawyer not sure on the lawyer part but it is tempting since I will
have to pay in full for a reversal because it is not covered by ins for any
reason and he is the one who assured me I would have no problems. I asked
him several times point blank before and he said simple as having a tooth
filled no big deal you will be fine no one has a problem. None of the papers
they gave me said anything even remote about possible problems. Plus I think
he is responsible to pay for the reversal since he is the one that did not
tell the truth about the risks and more or less lied to me.
I feel like my balls are going to explode anytime now they are very sore to
the touch and I can feel the pressure. I cannot take this any longer it is
starting to ruin my life. This as many of you know affects my job, home
life, sex life, and my mental state of mind. To make things worse I am back
in school at 39 and am having a hard time concentrating on my work with the
pain.
If I had known the possible complication with having a vas and knowing how
my body heals and reacts to things I am sure I would have never had it done.
Even my wife says wow had I know the risk and knowing how your body reacts
to things I would never let you get a vas. Don't get me wrong we love the no
rubbers, pill, stuff but I cannot live with this pain and high stress life I
have, I need this pain gone. I was told having a vas was just like getting a
tooth filled that simple, obviously, it's not.
I have thought long and hard, laid out my problems on paper and truly
believe that if I had this reversed my problems would go away. But I do like
the freedom we have from the vas and I would like nothing more then for all
the pain to go away. But I need my life back ASAP I cannot see myself
waiting for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, or more unless I have some
reassurance that it will in time go away.
I found a Dr near me that does the reversal in his office for $5300.00 total
includes everything. I don't have the cash but we can and are willing to get
a home equity loan to get this done.
What I need is advice on this. Am I jumping the gun by wanting to jump right
to the reversal? Should I try an open-end conversion, but remember my luck
and how my body heals so it may be better to go for the absolute fix first
or should I wait.
I am not a patient man and I lead a busy life like most of us and this it
just consuming too much of my life. I hate playing games with stopgap fixes
I like things that I know will work. I need to be normal again.
Thanks in advance,
Doug
yabig23
I've been there and back and would offer the following advice. Wait at
least a few more months as there is a still a chance things may
ultimately resolve on their own, but have a backup plan in case it
doesn't. At the very least your body needs some more time to heal as
much as it can before enduring another surgery. I waited a total of 6
months before giving up and it took another 3 months to make the
reversal happen, and in retrospect would do it exactly the same way
again. In my case I was very lucky the reversal gave me the results I
craved, but it's not always a panacea as I'm sure you've been told. I
would highly recommend going on Testosterone before you do so for at
least a couple of months to try and get some short term relief and also
to help in your diagnostics of the problem. I would also recommend you
go to someone who has experiences in doing reversals for pain relief
and not just to restore fertility. There is a big difference and in my
case it was worth the price as there turned out to be nerve entrapment
problems that only an experienced surgeon could have fixed.
I know exactly how you feel in the frustration and lack of patience
department but it's critical to make the best decision(s) for your long
term health. If you live in the Southeast I'd be happy to give you a
great recommendation of a Uro who specializes in this.
-Adam
Giraud
guarentee that your problem can be fixed by reversal. There may be
better courses of action. Second, having a reversal will not make the
"pain gone now." Recovery, I hear, is a long process, since reversal is
pretty invasive. I'd wait and continue to discuss this with the doctor.
Perhaps you should also be a little less trigger-happy with his
emergency number, since it is important he take you seriously.
Giraud
David
> The pain at one point was getting better but now is getting worse. Every
> time I go to the Dr he checks me out and says nothing is wrong the pain
> should clear up. He put me on antibiotics but still nothing. The pain meds
> help some but they are not a cure. I have seen 1 different Dr's that is at
> the same office as the Dr that did the vas he echoed the same thing. At
> this point I called my Dr last Thursday, this Monday, and just called his
> emergency line and still no call. At this point, I think he is tired of me
> since he is not calling me back. I guess it's time to get a new Dr and
Later in your post you say that "you are not a patient man". I think Giraud
has a good point - it's a good idea to work *with* your doctor, and I get
the impression you expect instant results and it's his fault they aren't
happening.
> Not sure on the lawyer part but it is tempting since I will have to pay in
> full for a reversal because it is not covered by ins for any reason and he
> is the one who assured me I would have no problems. I asked him several
> times point blank before and he said simple as having a tooth filled no
> big deal you will be fine no one has a problem. None of the papers they
> gave me said anything even remote about possible problems. Plus I think he
> is responsible to pay for the reversal since he is the one that did not
> tell the truth about the risks and more or less lied to me.
Forget the lawyer - concentrate on ways to heal rather than who'se fault it
was. If you have limited financial resources then why waste them on a
lawyer? Ultimately you have to prove that he was negligent in some way to be
awarded compensation. Assuming you could satisfy the judge that this was the
case, the amount you might potentially get may well be less than the cost of
the law suit. I'd suggest that you do your homework very, very carefully
before going to law. Time, effort, money and stress that may be better
invested in concentrating on healing.
I would suggest another doctor is a good plan, because whatever his skills
and abilities are you clearly have no faith in him.
> I have thought long and hard, laid out my problems on paper and truly
> believe that if I had this reversed my problems would go away. But I do
> like the freedom we have from the vas and I would like nothing more then
> for all the pain to go away. But I need my life back ASAP I cannot see
> myself waiting for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, or more unless I have some
> reassurance that it will in time go away.
The problem I have with "Truly believing" is that in most studies that look
at reversal as a cure for pvp, the average success rate is between 60% and
80%. What if you are in the 20% - 40% group? I think you need to keep your
options open.
> I found a Dr near me that does the reversal in his office for $5300.00
> total includes everything. I don't have the cash but we can and are
> willing to get a home equity loan to get this done.
It may be an idea to keep this in mind, but don't rush into this just yet.
> What I need is advice on this. Am I jumping the gun by wanting to jump
> right to the reversal? Should I try an open-end conversion, but remember
> my luck and how my body heals so it may be better to go for the absolute
> fix first or should I wait.
11 weeks is simply too soon to undergo more surgery. Depending on the cause
of the problem, some men will naturally heal given time. We are talking 6+
months. I really doubt that any doctor would be willing to do a reversal at
11 weeks - especially knowing that the patient expects instant results. I
think realistically doctors would not be willing to consider reversal until
after 6-12 months.
Depending on the source of the problem, certain treatments may be more
effective than others. The main surgical options are epididymectomy,
reversal and microsurgical denervation. All have varying success rates
depending on how carefully the diagnosis was. Reversal tends to be the
general approach, but the other options are worth considering, but you do
need accurate diagnosis.
As Adam says, it's worth considering Testosterone replacement therapy as a
very short term measure. If the problem is back pressure, then testosterone
therapy supresses sperm production and helps the relieves back pressure.
This may help your body to heal quicker and thus adapt itself to your new
sterile state. A word of warning though:- don't just buy the stuff online,
work with the doctor on this one.
I know you are keen to get back to normality asap - we all understand that.
The quickest way to do this may be to sit things out, try and get better a
diagnosis of the problem and consider options carefully. Rushing in with a
reversal (self diagnosed) may not be the quickest way of resolving it. Get a
new doctor, hopefully one you can have some trust in and work *with* him!
--
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
pvpas...@aol.com
I had a reversal for pvp. Most doctors will suggest a "wait and see"
approach lasting 6 months to 1 year, while trying conservative measures
to alleviate the pain in the interim.
The difficulty for you will be finding a doctor knowledgeable about pvp
and capable of providing treatment and support. This is no small feat.
Keep in mind that doctors are often as frustrated with pvp as you are.
Reversal for pvp is often effective. It was for me. The relief from
pain was immediate. The extended recovery period is several weeks. My
recovery was easy and without complication. Only a man who has
experienced the pain, frustration, anger, alteration in life style,
important relationships stressed, etc. can appreciate what it feels
like to be pain free after agonizing pain, pain that is in a area most
men find sensitive in normal circumstances. A man with pvp comes to
feel that those preaching "wait and see" don't fully comprehend their
situation. Let them live with the pain for even as little as a day and
the attitude of "wait and see" would quickly change...this is how a man
with pvp feels towards each and every person who tells him to "wait and
see", doctors and lay people alike. Impatience and anger is to be
expected. After all, vasectomy is supposed to be a "no brainer" and as
easy as visiting the dentist. Not so, for some of us. My experience
with pvp has spanned 15 years and counting.
That being said, it is important to direct your energies into finding
out as much as you can about your condition and being so informed about
it that you can discuss it with any doctor and present them with
information they may not be aware of. I had to do this. I took medical
studies to my doctor and we discussed them. You will have to be very
pro-active.
It will be up to you and your doctor to decide this, but I suggest that
if the pain continues for a year I would not wait much longer to have
surgical intervention. I waited 4 years because I could not get a
proper diagnosis nor treatment. In the end this was too long. Several
years after the reversal intense pain returned and an epididymectomy on
each side was done. Scar tissue from blow outs etc. was the culprit.
Epididymectomy is a far more extensive and invasive surgery than a
reversal and recovery is long and difficult. Neither are there any
guarantees. I have reduced pain and live with discomfort on and off. I
do not require pain killers but I have to use supports occassionally. I
am told this is the best it is going to get.
My advice to you, be pro-active and learn as much as you can.
Good luck, I sincerely hope that you are amongst the lucky ones who can
have closure with their vasectomy. Such closure is not afforded to all
of us.
Greg
Doug
Here is where I am at this point.
My Dr is very frustrated as he clams he has never had a patent have a
problem in 20 years lasting this long. This leads me to believe that he is
not qualified to treat me for PVP. Today he finally called me back after my
family Dr called him to find out why he was not calling me back. He said he
just does not know what to do for me and was sorry he avoided me. He is
sending me for a CAT scan of the pelvis (I think a CAT scan for PVP is real
strange but covered by my ins so it can't hurt) and wants me to take an
antibiotic for one week to see if anything improves (again can't hurt).
I think I need an independent second opinion from a urologist experienced in
treating PVP. Well an experienced urologist with PVP experienced in my
health plan is not to be found, I called them all. So I decided to call the
guy that does the reversals and ask him if he is experienced and he is. His
entire practice is dedicated to reversals and treatment for PVP and
fertility. In fact, he does nothing else and has patents come from all over
the USA. He has done almost 3000 reversals for fertility and PVP in his
life. He is willing to give me a second opinion for $150.00 and I made an
appointment. When I talked to him on the phone he did think 11 week was to
soon to consider a reversal. But he only sees a few patients a day for
consultations and only does 3 reversals a week and only 1 a day. So his
schedule is never overloaded like most Dr's. He will examine me and then sit
down with my wife and me to go over his recommendations for treatment
spending as much time as needed with me. He will educate me so that I can
work with a Dr that is in my insurance plan to help make sure I am getting
the best possible treatment and the correct treatment. He will even give the
Dr in my plan help in treating me if the Dr is willing. I think that is a
bargain for $150.00. He of course will treat me if I like but he accepts no
insurance but has reasonable rates. I think at this point having someone
with his experience check me out and make recommendations is a good idea and
worth the trip to his office. If after exhausting the recommended
non-evasive treatments for a reasonable time then getting a reversal may be
the best option. He did say that I would not want to wait to long (years) if
it is a congestive problem because the longer I wait the more damage is
done. But he did say that I should give my body more time to adjust and heal
and try some non-evasive things before jumping for a reversal. He needs to
examine me to really know what is wrong with me so I will go for the
appointment in 3 weeks and see what he says. Maybe I will get lucky and it
will all go away before then, wishful thinking.
Please if anyone has more info, comments, recommendations, or whatever
please post.
Thanks,
Doug
Steve
before getting a reversal:
* I also think it's a little early. Try less agressive treatments
first. If your new dr. knows about pvp, he should be conversant on
testerone therapy as a treatment for pvp. ask him about it and see how
he responds. if he rushes you to surgery, be cautious;
* If you ultimately decide upon a reversal, get a doc that has done
lots of reversals - most of them are fertility specialists - sounds
like you're on the right track....
* I would definitely pay the $150.... If I'd had access to a urologist
who knew about pvp, and was able to have a conversation about it at 3
months after vas instead of 2 yrs after vas, it would have saved me
thousands in counselling and possibly a job that I got 'downsized' out
of - it's tough to be on top of your game when you're fighting chronic
pain....
Best wishes - keep us informed...
Steve
Luan
Your experience sounds a lot the same as mine but I have traveled a bit
further down the rocky road. At 3-4 months I was feeling a lot of what
you talk about. Sept 6 was the beginning of the nightmare for me. The
first 64 days were an interesting combination of pains, 5 that I could
identify as separate if we take left and right into consideration. The
debilitating pains that caused me to work many short days ended suddenly
on Nov 9 , 04 . Since then I have had a constant dull ache on the right
side and it is a roller coaster type of pain in that there are days that
it is so slight I almost forget about it followed by days when I am sure I
will to submit to more surgery to try and end this misery. This cycle is
about a 10 day affair more or less. One month ago I talked to the second
doctor concerning some treatment. He said he would consult with his
colleges and get back to me either by e-mail or my personal telephone. No
response to date. I then asked a nurse I know and had done a favor for to
ask at her hospital to see if any of the staff in the urology department
might like to help me with this problem. She called me in about 10 days
and said ‘sorry, nobody in that hospital wanted to treat me. So about 3
weeks ago I walked into a hospital and made an appointment with a
urologist. He gave me and exam and prescribed some medication –
anti-inflammatory and said see him in one week. This medication made a
difference: No noticeable change in the dull ache but some improvement in
the painful orgasms. I have pretty much settled into a routine of painful
ejaculation varying from mild discomfort all the way to severe pain. This
painful orgasm problem was affected but only slightly. For the first few
days I made a mistake in dosage and was taking a double dose, this
eliminated the sharp pain but not the “strong discomfort” feeling. Week 2
the doc put me on antibiotic and anti-inflammatory this time 2 of the
latter medicines but no improvement except slightly less of the sharp
pain during orgasm. It appears all my problem now is on the right side so
far as pain goes. I say so far as pain goes for this reason: Painful
orgasms did not began immediately after vasectomy. I wish I had
documented more of the details as they evolved but I think it was about 4
to 6 weeks before the real painful ejaculations began. However, I had
much less “satisfaction” “pleasure’, and “feeling” immediately after the
operation. This I described as an “empty” orgasm or as I now describe it:
something that happens “Down There” rather than involving my “whole body”.
The pain starts on the inside of my right leg just above the knee and goes
to just below my waist. Sometimes this pain makes it impossible to even
know if I had an ejaculation. Masturbation is all but impossible, I can
come close and I may think I can have a climax but when I try the orgasm
and my erection like to fade back out of reach. This happens before any
pain actually develops. Making Love on the other hand is quite easy, I
have the full pleasure of foreplay and intercourse but as orgasm
approaches I must deal with the pain and it can be difficult depending on
how strong it is. However, for my lover I can go through it and maybe
better as time goes by not because the pain is much less I am just
learning to live with it I think. However, this is very lousy SEX for me.
The Doc said he could give me some pills to take when I wanted sex (more
anti-inflammatory meds) but I made it clear to him and the whole office
and waiting room that I like sex at least 2 times a day and I do not want
to limp along with drugs as the cure to this vasectomy problem.
I am furious with men who suffer in silence with this vasectomy pain
and will not tell the truth as they experienced it. My good friend who I
asked eye to eye about vasectomy before I did this told me “Nothing is
different, everything works the same.” (25 years since he had it) Now
after me telling him of my problems he comes clean and says, well, I had
some painful orgasms and some aches in my nuts for a while but I thought
it was my prostate or something. I suppose his doc filled his head with
lies just like mine tried to do. If this “friend” had told me the whole
story I would not have done this.
Many changes occurred from 3 to 6 months but nothing very positive.
Now it is 7 months for me and I doubt I will ever have another decent
orgasm if I “just wait”. I want some suggestions or food for thought.
What to do next? When to do it? Is open end conversion worth trying?
The doc I went to said that would make reversal more difficult later. Is
this true? Since I have just one side involved might opening only one end
be worth trying? The doc says he can remove the epididymis to cure the
pain, I ask what happens to sperm then. He says it stays in the testicle
and the testicle will be forced to make less,. I said I am afraid of
forcing my body to do what it probably cannot do. My case of pain with
vasectomy might be less severe than many but my life is all messed up
because of this. I have strong hope of being normal someday and that day
cannot be too far off if it is going to happen. Is Testosterone Therapy
the proper method to learn if reversal is the best cure? Has anyone with
the loss of pleasure and whole body involvement gotten this back with
reversal? And can open end conversion also bring back the whole body
experience that more or less disappeared as soon as the vasectomy was
preformed? In total absence of pain can the original pleasure experience
return and evolve as it was doing before the vasectomy? I only have
fading memories of what good lovemaking is like now so far as the orgasmic
phase is concerned and with the pleasure pushed aside by pain I fear my
ability to love is drastically hindered.
Doug
I feel most of your pain but thankfully at least for now I don't have any
pain during or after orgasm. I do sometimes have what I will call a pulling
sensation after orgasm but I would not call it painful nor does it detract
from the feeling. I hope that the pain you speak of does not develop in my
case and I hope yours gets better.
I have been in this shorter then you but yes it is like a rollercoaster with
the pain. I have been keeping a log of my pain day be day and it does seem
to run in cycles. What I was hoping for was longer times of less pain and
shorter times of intense pain but right now it is just running about the
same. So that is why I am looking for options since I am not seeing
improvement. And as you said I range from the dull ache to the intense pain
I attribute to pressure. Like you I like sex often and so does my wife. We
have sex a minimum of once a day and many times more morning and night or
several times in a row. So I am sure my sperm production before the vas was
at full max production since I was using the stuff like crazy. The Dr said
no problem your body will "quickly" adjust. Lies, lies, lies and total lack
of knowledge of PVP.
I take the anti-inflammatory also and they do help to a point and now my Dr
(who I now know is clueless about PVP so I am getting a new Dr) wants a CAT
scan. I was a bit worried about the X-rays from the scan since it is of my
pelvis and you know how they always shield us guys when they do x rays. I
was thinking of getting the scan just in case it show anything but not sure
of the possible danger. I was thinking you never know maybe it will show
something but can it hurt. I agree anti-inflammatory drugs and other stopgap
treatments are not a cure and I like you am looking for a cure.
I think at your point you should try to find a good Dr that has knowledge
about PVP (good luck its hard) and or a Dr that specializes in reversals.
Then get some solid advice from them but I would want a plan of action not
the "not sure lets try this if that does not work then we can try this other
thing and if that does not work lets try that. You know the shotgun approach
try a whole bunch of stuff and hope something works. I think a good Dr
should be able to say I want to try this because I think that it will work
for this reason. He should make intelligent recommendation based on careful
consideration of your individual symptoms and test results.
I think that removing the epididymis should be left as an option only after
a reversal failed to cure the pain. if you go for the removal first you have
limited your options. That is unless you have proof that the epididymis has
a problem and needs to be removed for medical reasons.
When I go to my new Dr I will talk about testosterone as I want to use is to
prove that my pain is from the pressure. If reducing sperm production
provides total relief of the pain and then I go off the treatment and it
comes back that is proof enough for me.
I think you may have more problems then just pressure based on your
description so I would be even more careful about making decisions.
The one thing I know for sure before the vas I never had a single pain down
there and everything worked perfect. After the vas, well you know the story
first hand.
Also you are correct after I admit my pain to others with a vas that I know
they admit having some pain and discomfort. Why they lie and don't tell the
truth to guys before they make the same mistake is beyond me. Guys must just
not want to talk about any dysfunction of the penis or balls. They want
everyone to think theirs works perfect I guess.
I know that unless I see steady improvement I have no intention of letting
this pain go on for years.
I wish you the best Luan.
Thanks,
Doug
David
> know
they admit having some pain and discomfort. Why they lie and don't tell the
truth to guys before they make the same mistake is beyond me. Guys must just
not want to talk about any dysfunction of the penis or balls. They want
everyone to think theirs works perfect I guess.
I think this is a relevant point, that men may well have a reluctance to
discuss medical complaints about sensitive area's in person, but it's
certainly not the case with the anonymity of the internet. Saying that men
lie and don't tell the truth to other guys is possibly a bit unfair to the
majority.
I don't talk about vasectomy at work, and nobody at my current employer
knows of my involvement here, and I intend to keep it that way. However, the
subject has come up on several occasions. One guy who is my age, and has
kids proudly goes around to anyone who will listen, dropping into the
conversation that he's had the snip. I confirmed I had also had it done -
end of conversation. If I was asked during a conversation if it was I was
happy and I wasn't, then I'd certainly pass that on.
The fact of the matter as to why men don't tell other men is that pvp is
actually rare, and in the majority of cases the people who admit to having
had one will be happy with it. Consider the fact that there are very few
doctors that have a clue how to deal with it, and also consider the fact
that there aren't lawyers falling over themselves to "ambulance chase".
One of the high search engine terms is currently Mesothelioma. Do a search
on it and you will find millions of pages on it, and if it's a Google
search, you will see no end of lawyers touting for business - it's one of
the highest costing/paying keywords.
The incidence of mesothelioma is rare - according to
http://www.asco.org/ac/1,1003,_12-002636-00_18-0023-00_19-00104355,00.asp
it's 0.97 per 100,000. Now that's substantially lower that ANY quoted
incidence for pvp, and it's not always easy to know who you can sue (if
anyone). However, the ambulance chasers clearly do manage to prove enough
cases to make it worth their while.
I know there are differences - mesothelioma will ultimately kill you, and
vasectomy won't. But it's a darned sight easier for a lawyer to prove that
one person is responsible than a string of potential
employers/manufacturers.
The fact that there aren't loads of specialists dealing with vasectomy
propblems, there aren't ambulance chasing lawyers touting for business, and
there is really very little internet activity on the topic are all
indicators that it is rare. Therefore It's a bit unfair to brand all of your
fellow men who haven't said that they had a problem as liars - most of them
probably didnt!
--
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
Doug
My quote: .after I admit my pain to others with a vas that I know they admit
having some pain and discomfort. Why they lie and don't tell the truth to
guys before they make the same mistake is beyond me.
This statement refers only to the men I personally know that have had a vas.
It in no way was intended to refer to men in general or the men on this news
group. That type of information would require a detailed study of the
general population that have had a vas. Again my comment was directed only
at the men that I personally know who have had a vas. It is a fact that they
(the men I personally know and not men in general) lied or mislead me into
believing that they did not experience any pain at all after the vas. Had
the men I personally know told me the truth that from time to time they have
pain or some form of discomfort. I would have most likely did a deeper study
into a vas and quite possible made a different decision, possible opting not
to have it or to research the Dr or procedure (no scalpel/scalpel open
end/closed end) better. I was lead even by the guys that I personally know
that having a vas was like getting to tooth filled, you have it, a few days
of pain and then pain free, worry free sex forever. That simply is not the
truth for the guys that I know, they were not truthful with me at first.
I do agree that it seems that overall PVP is not a major problem with vas's.
However PVP may in fact be a larger problem then it seems due to guys being
afraid to share the truth or admit that there manhood is not working
perfect. Every year many crimes go unreported because the victims are
ashamed to even admit what happen to the authorities. Therefore, the
statistics for many crimes are not accurate. I believe that over the course
of time more men then are reported to have pain, have pain, but it goes
unreported or is attributed to something else then the vas. This could be
because the vas done years before is forgotten about and not considered as a
possible source of the pain.
Also the guy that again I personally know who did not tell me the whole
truth only have what we will term minor pains or discomforts from time to
time not major pain all the time. But again the fact stands that when I was
making my decision I did not have the whole truth from the guys I know. This
caused me to make a decision based on faulted information. I am sure if I
was one of the many men who has no real problems at all after a vas, I bet I
would have never even did a search and found this newsgroup.
When I agreed with Luan's point, it was in a general sense. I don't know if
he was speaking about guys he personally knows or guys in general.
I agree that PVP will not kill a man physically like cancer. But certainly
PVP can cripple a man mentally and physically and he may get to a point that
he thinks to himself that he would be better of dead.
David again I am sorry and I sure am glad that this news group is here for
me.
BTW all my phone calls to Dr's in my health plan paid off. I found 1 Dr
about an hours drive away that has successfully treated several PVP cases a
year for the past several years. Because I only found one other Dr (who
accepts no insurance) knowledgeable in treating PVP within driving distance
I think that's lucky. I think I will go to both for an evaluation and make
an informed decision on which one I will allow to treat me. I will not let
the fact that the one Dr accepts my insurance sway my decision I will pick
the best Dr for the job this time.
Doug
MRVAS...@gmail.com
Doug,
Like Steve I'd be very leery of another doctor rushing to do another
surgery other than a conversion to open ended. The uro that did mine
and handles all of my urological issues does 3-4 conversions for this
very reason. He was quite honest about the risk, albeit rare he said it
does happen. He told me that he's only had handful of cases that he
couldn't relieve the pain. If you're on the east coast of the USA shoot
me an email and I'll give you his name and number. I'm one of those
that's very leery of using test for this reason, I did steroids in HS
and am still paying for it to this day.
Good luck and good medicine,
GREENFEATHER
Luan
I think it is obvious that vasectomy is a gamble and like gambling winners
sing at the top of their lungs and losers remain basically quiet. Casinos
absolutely depend on this phenomena to remain in business. We all know
everyone who visits casinos regularly looses some money, they might get
enough enjoyment to off-set their loss. “Idiots” like you and me thought
we could maybe have a win win situation with vasectomy. My gut feeling
told me it was very risky but I let my passion for one female over-ride my
common sense. I knew I would have some adjustment to make and I knew it
might take time. I did not know anything about PVP. Yesterday when I
explained to a Urologist with some knowledge in this area, that I lost
the best of my good feeling and wonderful reaction associated with Orgasm
immediately after the vasectomy was done. This was a few weeks before any
pain occurred with the orgasm ( I had other pains that came with the NSV
surgery and remained for 64 days). I said my feeling of “release” that
happened with the ejaculation and also triggered the wave of ecstasy
(under ideal/good conditions) which spread from my hair to toenails and
beyond and left me in a state of complete relaxation/love and “reset” my
entire nervous system – this no longer happens as before. I told him I
have an ”empty orgasm” I said the “fireworks” will not explode anymore. I
said the fuse burns ok but it is a dud every time. I think from this doc’s
reaction and what he said he understood pretty well. He made a small
sketch and pointed out the various parts involved in vasectomy. He said
there are contractions which happen during ejaculation and actually pump
the sperm up through the vas to the prostate etc. He said when the
vasectomy is preformed the vas is blocked and I will no longer feel this
pumping action and the release of pressure as before. When I said was
told there would be no change in sex after vasectomy I thought he was
going to bust out laughing but he contained his reaction to a big smile.
My main problem is that the right testicle for reasons unknown has not
responded to the blockage by reducing sperm production as is common and
expected. He says eventually this will most likely happen but up to 5
years might be needed. My concern is at age 58 I do not want to wait an
extended time. I have other health complications that this stress or lack
of my favorite stress relief method is causing (like high blood pressure)
and it puts me at risk for stroke and heart attack etc. if I just wait.
Sex is an important part of my good health. I expect to remain sexually
active till near death and enjoy the beautiful side of this gift I have
worked hard to understand and enjoy and share with the females I Dearly
Love. If sex and death occur together I say, “what a wonderful way to
go!” I do not wish to spoil that dream or place a long term hold on it’s
possibility. It appears to me that reversal is my only good hope to
recover to the original function of my sexual parts – relieve the pain -
as well as make useful again the programming I have put into my Personal
Lovemaking Experience.
I think men like us could be easily screened out of this vasectomy
nightmare if someone was interested in doing some simple research., I am
interested in knowing some basic facts concerning 1) “Wet dreams” I have
never had one. 2) “Sex averaging more than once a day”. I have done this
since 11 years old 3) “Painful ejaculation after long (5 day) rest from
sex”. This has been a small problem for me for 20+ years. 4) “High sperm
count” ETC.
I am quite certain Men like You and I might easily be warned of extra
risk to us if the medical people just dared to admit that many/any men
have severe complications after vasectomy. I do not have much faith that
anytime soon we will see the medical people/profession/business postings
signs in their establishments warning of PVP. As I do not think Casinos
will anytime soon post a sign at their doors: Warning : 99% of all who
enter here are likely to Lose Money!
Today I will visit more doctors this time is a medical school situation
and hope that they are interested in my case for reasons of curiosity as I
might be more unique and rare than most patients. It is my hope to learn
as much as possible before the decision to have surgery.
Luan
David
> sketch and pointed out the various parts involved in vasectomy. He said
> there are contractions which happen during ejaculation and actually pump
> the sperm up through the vas to the prostate etc. He said when the
> vasectomy is preformed the vas is blocked and I will no longer feel this
> pumping action and the release of pressure as before.
I think this may need some clarification. The vas deferens is about 30cm
long, and whilst there is some pumping action, the purpose of this is mainly
to move the sperm up from the epididymus via an extremely small-bore tube to
the ampullae to where they are stored and, is an action that goes on all the
time. Remember that sperm aren't something that's pumped direct from the
testicles during orgasm. They take about a month to mature in the
epididymus, move slowly up the vas deferens to be stored between
ejaculations in the ampullae. There is pressure at the top end of the vas
deferens during ejaculation to move the sperm from the ampullae to the
ejajulatory ducts, but there is also a "flushing" effect when the other
fluids in ejaculation come rushing past from the prostate that pulls the
sperm along with it. So the muscular contractions are only part of the
story, and only a very minor part of what's happening during orgasm.
> I think men like us could be easily screened out of this vasectomy
nightmare if someone was interested in doing some simple research.
It's also equally down to us to assist in the screening process. You
mentioned in another post in another thread that you had painful orgasms
before you had your vasectomy. Did you mention these to the doctor during
consultation, did you discuss if vasectomy would help this condition or make
it worse? If the doctor wasn't certain that it wouldn't make the existing
condition worse, would you have backed out at that point? It's not unheard
of in this group to have men complain about problems after vasectomy, and it
transpires that problems were there beforehand - only difference being that
vasectomy becomes the root cause!
As well as doctors discussing known indicators for not having a vasectomy,
we also need to share with them material facts such as these.
You also mention that "My gut feeling told me it was very risky but I let my
passion for one female over-ride my common sense." Maybe you should have
listened more to your common sense rather than your loins? I don't mean that
comment to sound harsh - I do think it's a lesson that we maybe should all
take longer to consider decisions. There is an expression here "More balls
than brains" meaning that men *do* think with their testicles. Maybe we
should acknowledge this, and try to think with our brains when we suspect
that we are being bossed around by our loins.
> I am quite certain Men like You and I might easily be warned of extra
> risk to us if the medical people just dared to admit that many/any men
> have severe complications after vasectomy. I do not have much faith that
> anytime soon we will see the medical people/profession/business postings
> signs in their establishments warning of PVP.
I agree that counselling is inadequate in many cases. The UK guidelines now
say that doctors must inform men that there is a risk of chronic pain after
vasectomy. That is a huge step forward, and one that shouldn't be
underestimated. As far as I know, the UK guideline is the first proper
evidence based guideline that discusses what men should be informed about,
and cites the evidence behind the reccomendations. I think it may form a
pattern for other countries in the future.
The difficulty is that pvp *is* rare - nobody can give you a figure for how
many men it affects. This is partly because the deffinition hasn't been
standardised. Currently the deffinition of pvp varies from slight discomfort
in the couple of days following vasectomy to severe, long lasting
complications. Nobody can agree on the name either!
It has been said that some of the statistics are hidden because men don't
want to go to the doctor about it. Whilst this is undoubtedly true, it's
also undoubtedly true for other embarrasing complaints as well, yet
incidences are well known and you can be quoted statistics.
So whilst the UK guideline says that men need to be warned there is a risk,
despite looking at over 250 studies in great detail they can't give you a
risk factor - nor can anybody else.
--
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
Doug
I went to the new Dr last Thursday.
He thinks I have an infection still and put me on a new antibiotic and since
I have been taking it things have improve to a point. But no more
improvement since Sunday. The first 3 days made the most difference.
The CAT scan that I had showed nothing.
He ordered an ultrasound of my testicles and my prostate.
He found a few spots on my testicles that were sore and he wants to wait to
see the ultrasound.
He said that the epidermis of both testicles is much more tender then it
should be at 13 weeks.
At this point, he wants me to finish the antibiotics, get the ultrasound,
and then we will go from that point.
Right now, the pain is just above the radar level. So it is not ruining my
life totally but it sure in annoying having any level of pain there all the
time.
I am hopeful that the antibiotic will help more and maybe the ultrasound
will shed some light on why I am in pain.
I know I would not want to live the rest of my life with even this level of
pain but it is at a point that I can at least give my body some more time to
adjust and heal. If it gets worse or does not improve, I will need to
revaluate things.
BTW, this new Dr did say that the Dr that did the vas could have caused some
of my problems. This includes rough surgery and carelessness during the vas
and my treatment.
What can I expect from having the ultrasound of my testicles. How does the
tech do this and will I be sore after. Maybe someone that has had this done
can let me know what to expect.
Thanks,
Doug
MRVAS...@gmail.com
wouldn't hurt to ask for anesthesia, i.e. lidocane or marcane as they
will apply pressure to your scrotum. They use a transducer to see
feedback images. I had one when I was in my 20's because they thought I
had hydrocele.
Good luck.
All good medcine,
GREENFEATHER
dave
left testicle is still swollen and sore. The pain is just about bearable but
is showing no signs of improving. Last week saw a bit of a reprieve and some
relief from the pain, but this week has been terrible and I've just started
a new job also.
I've got an ultrasound appointment on Monday of next week. I saw another GP
last week who agreed with the first doctor I saw that I have a haematoma. He
said that this could take up to 6 months to clear but what's worrying me is
that things seem to be getting worse. The pain is now pretty constant and
I'm trying to get on with my life as best I can, but I can categorically
state that I regret in every aspect ever going near having this operation. I
know people who have problems are in the huge minority whichever way you
look at it, but I can't believe I willingly agreed to this.
Dave
"Doug" <cloak-v...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:Zwi9e.3616$sG3....@fe09.lga...
Doug
The only bad thing I can say about it is that my wife was super pissed off
because the ultrasound tech was very hot.
Right now, my pain is still hanging just above radar level. Not so bad that
it ruins your day but bad enough to annoy the piss out of you all the time.
The one good thing I can say is having sex normally does not make the pain
worse. I have mixed feelings but I lean towards I wish I never got the vas
in the first place. We love the fact that we are free and don't have to
worry but even my wife is sorry that I am in pain. I would say that if this
clears totally up even with the problems I would be overall happy. But if
the pain continues for years them for sure it was a big mistake in my case.
Dave I hope you don't embarrass easily because the whole enchilada is
swinging right in front of the tech. I though that maybe she would give me
something like a towel to put over it like when that Dr did the vas. But she
was right there moving stuff around doing the ultrasound. She did ask me why
I was having the US and I told her pain after a vas. She said I would never
let my husband do this to himself I see too many men for ultrasounds because
of problems with vas's. I said I thought that most men don't have a problem
at all. She said well most men don't but I still see men every week that do
have problems. I asked if the problems clear up or not and she said in many
cases they do in time but she knows of men that it just continues to be a
problem. She said I guess you learned your lessen not to have unnecessary
surgery. I sure did learn my lessen well.
Also Dave I agree with you about willingly agreeing to this. For years I
always said I would never let anyone touch down there it is working fine and
if it isn't broke don't fix it. But I started to feel bad because my wife
has had several surgeries and still needs a few more. So I broke down and
decided to do it because I thought I would take one for the team. Now both
my wife and I are sorry that we did what was supposed to be so easy and
simple, a vas.
Let me know how you're US goes. I should get my results in a few days
probably next week with the weekend coming.
Doug
"dave" <da...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:426689e2$0$290$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
reidsc...@yahoo.com
You will need to wait a few years before being able to bring a claim.
And, more than likely, you must have signed and arbitration agreement.
So, once snipped always snipped!
dave
Many thanks for your reply. I think in many ways your thoughts and feelings
echo my own. This simply is not the safe, simple operation that it's made
out to be but the problem is that statistically we are in a real minority.
The world runs on statistics and unless we see a definite shift in those
statistics, we will always be considered a minority. Two doctors I've seen
have put all my problems down to a haematoma and the last one said that it
could take 6 months to die down. Problem is that the normal treatment for
this is anti-inflammatories, but for some reason I have an intolerance to
these as they really upset my stomach badly. The consequence is that I just
can't take 'em!!
Got the ultrasound on Monday. In a way I'm hoping it shows up something but
I suspect it wont. For me this is still at GP level. I think I'll have the
scan, get the results and escalate it up to someone who knows a bit more
about problems of this type. At times this past week it's been real bad; at
others not so bad.
I'll keep you informed.
Best, Dave
"Doug" <cloak-v...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:fBX9e.10773$V02....@fe08.lga...
Doug
sometimes just below radar level. Here is the question. Yesterday afternoon
I was not in much pain just some discomfort and I had sex. I noticed maybe
5 -10 minutes after that both my testicles start to ache and they ached for
several hours. Then this morning when I woke up again thing were settled
down and the pain was low. In fact I notice that I feel the least pain first
thing when I wake up then the as I go through the day the pain increases. So
again, I have sex this morning and sure enough 5-10 minutes later I notice
the ache in both testicles. I think I am just noticing this because the
general pain level is lower. So I guess before the general pain level was
higher then the ache after sex so I did not notice it. Now that the general
pain level is lower then the ache after sex I am noticing it.
So is it normal to have an ache in the testicles after sex for several
hours. If anyone has had this does it eventually go away or is that yet
another sign of long lasting PVP.
Also Dave we are for sure in the minority and because of that the truth
about possible PVP is not openly discussed before the procedure. Knowing my
luck and how my body is had I been told that there was the possibility of
any problems I would have most likely passed on the vas. But my Dr said
several times because I asked "this is so simple no one ever has a problem
it like having a tooth filled". So I figured it's no big deal don't be a
baby and just get it done. Like you, PVP is not the program I signed up for.
I will give this some more time minimum 6 months to resolve and I will
actively keep on the Dr's for answers. If after 6 months I am still in pain
I will start to pursue more aggressive measures like a reversal. That way I
can have the reversal if needed in place for the one year mark. If after one
year my body has not adapted to the vas and there is no other medical reason
(like infection or something like that) that I have pain then the reversal
would seem the logical answer. Either the Dr caped me off way to close to
the endodermis, or my body just does not like being altered. But it is true
if you plug anything else in the body it is a real problem why would this be
any different. Example of problems clogged tear duct, clogged intestine,
clogged artery, clogged anything in the body does create a problem for the
body to deal with. For some people the body cannot deal with the clogging of
a vas.
Doug
"dave" <da...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:426a3696$0$290$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
Luan
before in a post I have been in this nightmare a full 4 months longer than
you.
I suggest you seek open end conversion NOW from my studying. I shall try
to have this done in the next few days but I cannot be sure if I will
manage that. Here in Thailand the whole system of vasectomy seems to be
filled with sadistic doctors as well as a medical profession that never
treats pain especially if it will improve your sex life. I fear waiting
any longer and wish I had done something at least 2 months ago. The pain
after orgasm still visits me for up to 25 minutes beginning at orgasm or a
few seconds before. The sharp "Electric Cattle Prod" quality to this pain
has been absent for the last 3 or 4 experiences but I know that can return
as it has before. The aching now goes to below my knee and my right leg
feels tired most of the time. What makes us delay the treatment is the
fact that on given days we are "getting better" then we "get worse" and
began to worry and think we better seek treatment of the surgical type.
the better days give us hope that waiting will end the nightmare if we
wait. I know now I have waited too long but hopefully not gone so long
the window for a total cure has closed. I believe my recovery now will be
slower because I waited. I believe 6 months is the limit with this type of
pain and by then you must try the open end because that will not rule out
the reversal later. To let you know how bad it gets sometimes, I am
trying to break the end off my vas without seeing a dic doc!!! I would
try to do an open conversion on myself if no medical people were
available. My left side broke open on Nov 9 last year and was instantly
pain free to this day. I am trying to HELP the right side open up too.
So far no luck but I am learning and I will build the correct tools and
get a surgical nurse to help me with the details and hopefully get me some
novicane of the right formula. The Docs Here in Thailand are either stupid
son-of-a-bitches or sadistic or their supervisors are. Every single one
just laughs at the suggestion that they open my right side. I show them
that the left side is open.... I tell them it is pain free... they say a
granuloms will form if they open the vas and I say "Good I want a
granuloma!!" They say that could be a problem and I say PAIN IS A
PROBLEM! I say I already have granuloma on the left side it is fine!
They say we cannot do that it might be a problem. I say we can treat the
granuloms if it becomes a problem.
Doug - we are dealing with some ignorant and sadistic people here in
general. Many think it is pretty funny that you got yourself into this
mess. They like to see you complain and cry and in their eyes make a fool
of yourself. There is no doubt in my mind about this here and there it is
just a little harder to notice. They like to say we are very rare in that
this happens so seldomly. The only rare thing about this is that men who
talk like you and are honest and also great lovers are a rare combination.
One of the urologists I visited gave me a "rough" examination that took 5
days to recover from so please nobody make a fool of yourself and suggest
I am wrong in saying there are saddists in the medical profession. If we
are so rare why isn't someone interested in studying us? I have offered
myself for this but there are no takers. I am not rare in that I have
pain after vasectomy, I might be a bit rare in that I will talk about it.
Most men are not "lovers" to the degree that you are and therefore they are
not so upset by PVP and they rather just shut up and wait. As one
urologist told me this pain will go away in 2 to 5 years so it is not
necessary to treat it. But you and I know your love life will probably be
a casuality in some less than 5 years and your life will change in a way
you do not wish. I will post a message here after my Meeting with Mechai
Viravaidya on monday and then I will know if an open conversion is going
to happen soon for me.
Doug
you email your correct email address to me at cloak-v...@usa.net
Thanks,
Doug
Luan
try this... my name is tedhellerud
I use hotmail for one account
my name at hotmail should work
Would like to get info from you
thanks
Doug
ultrasound was fine all looked well according to the Dr. I am still taking
antibiotics 3 times a day and NSAID and will be until I see the Dr again on
the 26th. So one wonders if everything looks fine why am I still in
pain??????? that is the big question. I am more and more thinking that what
I feel today is the level that I will have to live with unless I elect to do
something like a reversal or conversion to open end. I am still going to
give it to the 26th week (half a year) before I make any decision that
involves more surgery.
Doug
dave
Sorry to hear you're still suffering. I must admit I've noticed a marked
improvement over the past few weeks. Had the ultrasound a couple of weeks
ago and will get the results this week although at the time, the person
doing the scan said everything looked fine. She said there was no visible
haematoma despite 2 doctors saying I had one!! I've been relatively
pain-free for the last 3 weeks, however I went 10-pin bowling yesterday with
my wife and daughter and today the left testicle is quite sore again. It was
hardly strenuous exercise .. 2 games that lasted no more than one hour. If
this was enough to cause some pain then things still can't be right. 9 weeks
this coming Friday since my op.
Dave
"Doug" <cloak-v...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:Cjdfe.20483$o32....@fe09.lga...