Does it effect desire/orgasm
Zane
This question gets asked over and over - but its a biggy so here I go
again.
Thinking of having the snip - 33, 2 kids , strong sex drive.
Are there any stats on how many men notice a negative change in orgasm
and sexual desire, how many notice postive changes etc.
You read some horror stories - but are they the minority?
Any help appreciated
Cheers
trif...@netscape.net
believe includes some statistics. There are also personal stories
submitted by guys who have been through it. And a survey of readers.
I think all these sources agree that the vast majority of men report
that vasectomy either has no effect on their sex drive and how their
orgasms feel, or it makes both better. I suspect the effect may be due
to psychological factors--after vasectomy many men enjoy sex more
because they worry less about getting partners pregnant, they can do it
more spontaneously because they don't have to worry about timing,
rubbers, diaphragms, etc. (Losing rubbers, of course, would make a BIG
difference.) There's even a chance that sex improves for some guys
because their partners enjoy it more. There are some men who say sex
gets worse for them, but they are the minority. And I believe their
experience of a change in most cases may also have a psychological
source. In particular, if they felt forced into having the vasectomy.
Or if they had it done behind their partner's back, and she resents it.
Of if either partner has problems with sterility. Speaking for
myself, my sex drive seemed to rise after vasectomy. So did my wife's
(coming off the Pill affects some women this way). Orgasms feel just
as great, too. (My vas. was 7 years ago, and I am 53.)
trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
David
> again.
>
> Thinking of having the snip - 33, 2 kids , strong sex drive.
>
> Are there any stats on how many men notice a negative change in orgasm
> and sexual desire, how many notice postive changes etc.
Plenty. Try doing a search at the national library of medicine (medline)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi use vasectpmy + satisfaction
as the search and away you go. It will find some irrelevant stuff, but by
and large the studies are relevant. We also have a selection in the journals
section of the website (below).
The clip below is from a literature review study by some mebers of Harvard
Medical School (Well connected).
Long-Term Psychologic Reactions
Positive Effects. Most men who have vasectomies feel relieved that the worry
about pregnancy is over, and most couples respond well to their new-found
contraceptive freedom. About 30% of couples report that they have sex more
often following vasectomy, enjoy it more, consider their marriages stronger,
feel healthier and more relaxed, and have no regrets about the operation.
Surveys indicate that about 90% of men are satisfied with the operation and
that the feeling persists. One study reported even higher satisfaction in
the partners, with more than 95% of wives reporting satisfaction with the
procedure. Younger and older couples, with or without children, were all
equally likely to have favorable reactions to vasectomies.
>
> You read some horror stories - but are they the minority?
Yes.
If you read the studies at medline, you will notice that those who have had
good counselling, and are positive about having the vasectomy have an even
higher satisfaction percentage. I know that you asked specifically about
negative changes in orgasm and desire, but there are very few studies that
take that approach. Most use satisfaction (or degrees of) as the measure. If
you felt that your sex desire/ orgasm had been affected, you would not
answer positive.
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
Steve
I'll try again - sorry if this is repetitive....
I seem to be the only one with the 'minority experience' that hangs
around here, so I'll weigh in....
I experienced a loss of satisfaction in both the intensity and pleasure
of ejaculation from the vasectomy in several ways:
* i wasn't aware of it before the vasectomy, but I've always felt the
vas deferens as part of ejaculation as it contracts. This was a
notable loss after the vasectomy - fortunately things came back to
normal after the reversal
* more noticeable was the fact that I no longer felt 'drained' after an
ejaculation - in a literal sense. My epididymides always felt swollen.
The feeling of the epididymis draining during ejaculation is something
that I experience - wasn't aware of it until after the vasectomy and
subsequent reversal..... This caused a significant change in both
intensity and overall pleasure for me....especially when combined with
bouts of congestive epididymitis.
so - there you go.... a minority report....I know you asked for stats,
but I think that you'll find in your medline search (which you should
certainly do) that the studies which have been done and reported on are
relatively small sample sizes, with widely varying results. Unless
something has been reported on recently that I've missed, it is my
position that no large scale study has been done which adequately
informs us of the incidence of pvp or of loss of intensity or sensation
at ejaculation. While one could argue that overal satisfaction results
that David mentions can be used as proxies for these numbers, I frankly
have serious questions about only 90% being 'satisfied' with the
operation. A 10% dissatisfaction rate for such a 'routine' procedure
is huge....but has not been fleshed out in any research which I've
reviewed... ( and yes, I do have a background that includes being a
market research director conducting patient satisfaction surveys for a
large medical group....).
Be informed as you make your decision!
Steve
David
> that David mentions can be used as proxies for these numbers, I frankly
> have serious questions about only 90% being 'satisfied' with the
> operation. A 10% dissatisfaction rate for such a 'routine' procedure
> is huge....but has not been fleshed out in any research which I've
> reviewed.
Not responding as satisfied does not automatically mean the patient is
dis-satisfied.You can't make the assumption that those who did not repsond
in the affirmative automatically meant that they were dissatisfied. Most
questionaires have several possible answers for each question ranging from
satisfied to dis-satisfied. If the abstract of a study only mentions one
category of the results, you cannot make assumptions on how the rest of the
categories were responded to. That's why I prefer to read the article in
full to find these things out.
As for studies having a small sample size, it's true to say that all aspects
of medical research have good studies, and bad studies. Some studies are
large, and some small. I personally place more weight on studies that are
large, well constructed and written, as opposed to small ones that are often
quite bad science.
I did find an interesting study on vasectomy satisfaction:-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2753666
1000 sample size, and just to add a bit of an unusual twist it was done in
Ireland - a strongly Catholic country.
It concludes that "99.7% of patients reported satisfaction with their
vasectomy, perhaps because they had taken an average of 22 months to decide
on the procedure and were carefully counseled an assessed."
trif...@netscape.net
> * more noticeable was the fact that I no longer felt 'drained' after
an
> ejaculation - in a literal sense. My epididymides always felt
swollen.
> The feeling of the epididymis draining during ejaculation is
something
> that I experience - wasn't aware of it until after the vasectomy and
> subsequent reversal..... This caused a significant change in both
> intensity and overall pleasure for me....especially when combined
with
> bouts of congestive epididymitis.
Hmmm....Orgasm is very subjective. But I've read that sperm takes up
to 70 days to move from epididymides to ampullae, then out during
ejaculation. So I'm not sure anyone's epididymi actually "drain"
during ejaculation. But certainly I can understand that perpetual
congestive epididymitis could interfere with sexual pleasure.
Reopening the vas ends would seem a good solution to that problem when
it occurs.
partyoffive
Like the poster Steve, my husband who had his vasectomy over 1 yr ago
has had pain problems after his vasectomy as well as "diminished
feelings" with orgasm. Also to note, which I cannot correlate directly
to the vasectomy although that is the only thing that had changed in my
husbands situation was the fact that his testosterone levels dropped
"drastically" from normal to well below normal levels in a short period
of time.
A.
David
> to the vasectomy although that is the only thing that had changed in my
> husbands situation was the fact that his testosterone levels dropped
> "drastically" from normal to well below normal levels in a short period
> of time.
Hi,
I'm curious as to how you know this, and what is being considered as
"normal" here. For example, is he comparing a reading taken prior to the
vasectomy with a recent one? Testosterone readings are not normaly taken as
a matter of course - whas there a reason they were taken (assuming they
were)?
If his hormone levels did drop, then it is worth investigationg why, as
opposed to making an assumption. below are a whole list of factors that
cause T levels to vary - vasectomy isn't one of them
You may, or may not be aware that there isn't a level of what is "Normal" -
only what is "Normal for you". E.G. If you have a testicle removed for
testicular cancer, you would assume that you would be in need of
testosterone supplements, but that doesn't usually happen unless there is
cause for concern. As long as the readings you have are within what is
considered "Normal for you" boundaries, then you don't get supplements. In
any case, testosterone replacement therapy is potentially worse than low
testosterone.
The problem with testosterone reading is that they vary - a lot - depending
on many, many factors. Firstly, testosterone varies greatly from man to man,
from season to season, time of day (30% higher in the morning compared to
the evening), age and a whole raft of other factors including smoking,
alchohol, diet, age, stress, body mass (obesity), pesticides, female growth
hormone in beef (banned in the EU but used regularly in the US), drugs,
marijuana, industrial process, diabetes - the list goes on.
Any researcher studying changes in testosterone would need to control for
many of the above factors - a very difficult task. Many don't, hence the
results of most studies into vasectomy and testosterone are pretty
inconclusive.
What's normal? According to www.acor.org (an excellent resource for
testicular cancer) "Testosterone is usually measured on a scale of 0-1000.
If you fall within 300-700, you're average and OK - cool, right? Well, maybe
not. Remember these are averages, and therefore not all guys are the same.
So if you didn't have a baseline check done, and you come in at 400, but for
you normal is 700, you could be experiencing some of the low Testosterone
symptoms (see below) but have no basis for knowing where you should be
(Note: testosterone can also be measured on a scale of 0-10 as well,
depending on the denominator - but the same ratios apply). "
Note that if you were plotting a graph using the above, on a scale of 1-10,
3 to 7 inclusive means that the plotted line would take up no less that 50%
of the white space on the graph!
Age factors:- http://www.lef.org/protocols/abstracts/abstr-130.html is a
very good resource on this topic.
Seasonal variation. Believe it or not testosterone levels are seasonal.
Study #1 explains the reasons this may be, and the French study in the
"Vasectomy and hormones" section of the website concurrs. There are other
human studies, and a fair few mammalian ones - anyone interested in more can
use MEDLINE to find more. Any study needs to avoide seasonal variations -
IE if you measure some men in the spring, and some in the autumn (fall for
you over-the-ponders) then the results are probably meaningless.
OK - at this point it should be noted that any study into variations in
hormone levels and other factors (be it vasectomy, smoking, diet, alchohol -
whatever) it's necessary to ensure that the subjects and controls are
matched for age, the measurements are all taken at the same time to avoid
seasonal variation and most importantly baseline checks on all controls and
subjects are recorded, and accounted for in the findings.
How many studies do this?
Diet, exercise, stress, obesity, weight loss and mineral supplements.
http://www.medlean.com/ML_testosteronerestoring.html is an excellent article
detailing how diet, exercise and stress can affect testosterone levels. The
preamble to the section reads "Although the most common reason for decreased
testosterone levels is aging, levels also commonly decrease during acute and
chronic emotional stress, over training, physical inactivity, after the use
of anabolic steroids, excessive use of alcohol, prescription or recreational
medication and certain diseases.
Testosterone levels are also affected by bio-social events. Your
testosterone will go up before a sporting event (whether you are competing
or not) and sexual stimulation (sight or touch). And interestingly, levels
significantly decrease in both the competitors and fans of losers of
athletic events. (So forget about having a strong sex drive if the
cheerleaders don't show up and your team loses the Super Bowl).
Normally testosterone is the 30% higher in the morning than the evening.
This may explain why men are more interested in sex in the morning and is
part of the reason for spontaneous morning erections. In fact, the loss of
morning erections is a sure sign that testosterone is declining.
By eliminating or reducing these factors, improving you diet, beginning or
modifying your exercise program , reducing stress and restoring nutritional
status you can improve your hormonal balance and most importantly
dramatically improve the way you look, feel and perform."
There are many studies into obesity and low testosterone. Anyone interested
in more can find them on MEDLINE. I've picked Study #2 that shows how shows
how testosterone increases as weight reduces. Study #3 demonstrates how
testosterone can vary to give sportsmen a competitive edge. There are other
studies that demonstrate the link between exercise and testosterone, but I
picked this one as it shows just how fast testosterone levels can vary
(within minutes).
There are many aspects of our daily diet that can vary hormone levels.
Again, there are many studies at MEDLINE on this topic, but I've picked one
that shows how eating soya flour as a supplement can lower testosterone.
Study #4:- "CONCLUSIONS: We have shown that soya supplements reduce serum
testosterone and improve markers of oxidative stress. These findings provide
a putative mechanism by which soya supplements could protect against
prostatic disease and atherosclerosis. Further dietary studies with clinical
end points are warranted."
Study #5 demonstrates that lowering cholesterol by the use of a
mediterranian diet and a drug will alter hormone levels (including
testosterone).
There are other elements of diet that can increase testosterone - either in
the form of dietary change or supplement. See
http://www.medlean.com/ML_testosteroneenhancers.html The text details
several vitamins, minerals and herbs that are proven to raise testosterone.
The following is clipped from the section on zinc.
"Of all the minerals in the body zinc is most important in the production of
testosterone. Studies show that without adequate zinc, the testicular cells
lose the ability to convert lipids, concentration of androgen receptors
decrease and levels of aromatase in the liver are inhibited. In clinical
practice, many men have restored healthy testosterone to estrogen ratios
just with zinc replacement.
Studies with young men on restricted zinc diets show testosterone decreased
73% after 20 weeks. While older men with marginal zinc status increased
testosterone 90% when given zinc. And these levels were 50% more than the
young men with decreased zinc.
<snip>
Remember zinc will only increase testosterone if you are deficient in zinc."
What about other factors? Study #6 shows how smoking affects testosterone,
studies #7 and# 8 show the effect of agrichemicals and harmful substances in
the workplace. Again, there are many many studies into this at Medline -
these are just a sample.
So how do the studies on vasectomy and testosterone at the website relate to
the above?
Int J Androl. 1983 Apr;6(2):125-34. Related Articles, Links
Lack of effect of vasectomy on peripheral gonadotrophin and steroid levels.
Sample size 20
baseline taken - yes
age matched sample/controls not stated
weight matched sample/controls not stated
seasonal variation - accounted for due to the bimonthly sampling over two
years
smoking/alchohol not stated
diet/exercise factors not stated
Tests:- LH, FSH, DHT-S before and bi monthly for two years post vasectomy
Conclusion:- "No significant alterations were observed in the levels of any
of the hormones studied. The results are interpreted as indicating that in
the first 2 years following vasectomy in men there is no consistent or
progressive change in the peripheral plasma levels of gonadotrophins or in a
variety of steroids of testicular and/or adrenocortical origin."
******
Fertil Steril. 1988 Feb;49(2):309-15. Related Articles, Links
Annual variation in semen characteristics and plasma hormone levels in men
undergoing vasectomy.
Sample size 260
baseline taken - yes
age matched sample/controls not stated
weight matched sample/controls not stated
seasonal variation - purpose of study
smoking/alchohol not stated
diet/exercise factors not stated
Tests:- LH, FSH, T, estradiol (E2), and 20alpha-dihydroprogesterone
(20alpha-DHP), as well as semen analyses including semen volume, sperm
count, and sperm motility from 260 healthy men were evaluated for annual
changes
Conclusion:- Compared with the prevasectomy group annual mean, that for each
of the endocrine values was unchanged, except for that of LH and T, which
was slightly, yet statistically significantly, elevated. The existence of
prominent annual variation implicates their consideration in the design of
research protocols involving investigation of reproductive phenomena in
humans.
*******
Int J Androl. 1987 Apr;10(2):471-9. Related Articles, Links
Plasma reproductive hormones in normal and vasectomized Chinese males.
Sample size 298 controls, 505 subjects aged 30-73, time since vasectomy 1-25
years
baseline taken - no
age matched sample/controls yes
weight matched sample/controls not stated
seasonal variation - not stated
smoking/alchohol not stated
diet/exercise factors not stated
Tests:- Plasma reproductive hormones (testosterone, LH, FSH and prolactin)
Conclusion:- Study findings revealed a significant increase in plasma
testosterone and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) with time since
vasectomy, but no difference was observed between the vasectomized men and
nonvasectomized controls when age effects were controlled. Age-related
increases in LH and FSH but not in testosterone or prolactin were noted in
normal men. No adverse effects of vasectomy were observed apart from a 16%
increase in mean LH levels in the vasectomized compared to non-vasectomized
men of similar ages.
******
J Urol. 1995 Dec;154(6):2065-9. Related Articles, Links
Comment in:
J Urol. 1996 Nov;156(5):1784-5.
Early and late long-term effects of vasectomy on serum testosterone,
dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone
levels. PURPOSE: We investigated whether the association between vasectomy
and prostate cancer has a hormonal basis.
Sample size 182 - 91 controls, 91 subjects 10-20+ years since vasectomy
baseline taken - no
age matched sample/controls yes
weight matched sample/controls not stated
seasonal variation - not stated
smoking/alchohol not stated
diet/exercise factors not stated
Tests:- serum testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone and
follicle-stimulating hormone levels by radioimmunoassay on 91 pairs of men
who did and did not undergo vasectomy.
RESULTS: Men who underwent vasectomy 10 to 19 years previously had higher
dihydrotestosterone levels than age matched controls. In men who underwent
vasectomy 20 years or more ago testosterone was higher than in corresponding
controls. No statistically significant difference in luteinizing hormone and
follicle-stimulating hormone levels was noted between the men who had had
vasectomy and controls. CONCLUSIONS: Our results indirectly support the
hypothesis that there is an elevated risk of prostate cancer among men who
underwent vasectomy 20 or more years previously.
********
STUDY #1
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Feb;88(2):932-7. Related Articles, Links
Variation in levels of serum inhibin B, testosterone, estradiol, luteinizing
hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sex hormone-binding globulin in
monthly samples from healthy men during a 17-month period: possible effects
of seasons.
Andersson AM, Carlsen E, Petersen JH, Skakkebaek NE.
Department of Growth and Reproduction, Copenhagen University Hospital,
DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark. an...@rh.dk
To obtain information on the scale of the intraindividual variation in
testicular hormone, blood samples for inhibin B determination were collected
monthly in 27 healthy male volunteers during a 17-month period. In addition,
the traditional reproductive hormones FSH, LH, testosterone, estradiol, and
SHBG were measured. The intraindividual variation in inhibin B over the
study period was, on the average, 10%, corresponding to the assay variation
of the inhibin B assay, indicating that most of the observed day to day
variation in inhibin B levels in men could be explained by assay variation.
A seasonal variation was observed in LH and testosterone levels, but not in
the levels of the other hormones. The seasonal variation in testosterone
levels could be explained by the variation in LH levels. The seasonal
variation in LH levels seemed to be related to the mean air temperature
during the month before blood sampling, but not to the length of daylight or
the hours of sunshine. In conclusion, our data showed that day to day levels
of inhibin B are relatively constant in men and do not seem to be influenced
by seasonal factors. In contrast, we found a seasonal variation in LH and
testosterone levels in men. The peak levels of both LH and testosterone were
observed during June-July, with minimum levels present during winter-early
spring. Air temperature, rather than light exposure, seems to be a possible
climatic variable explaining the seasonal variation in LH levels.
********
STUDY #2
Obes Res. 2003 Jun;11(6):689-94. Related Articles, Links
Sex hormones and sexual function in obese men losing weight.
Kaukua J, Pekkarinen T, Sane T, Mustajoki P.
Department of Internal Medicine, Helsinki University Central Hospital,
Peijas Hospital, Vantaa, Finland and. Department of Endocrinology, Helsinki
University Central Hospital, Helsinki, Finland.
OBJECTIVE: To study the impact of a weight-loss program on sex hormones and
sexual function among 38 middle-aged obese men (BMI >/=35 kg/m(2)). RESEARCH
METHODS AND PROCEDURES: A randomized controlled clinical trial was
conducted. The treatment group (n = 19) participated in a 4-month
weight-loss program including 10 weeks on a very-low-energy diet (VLED) and
17 behavior modification visits. There was no intervention in the control
group (n = 19). Both groups were followed for 8 months, i.e., 22 weeks after
the active weight loss in the treatment group. The outcome measures (weight,
sex hormones, sexual function, leptin, and metabolic variables) were
obtained at baseline and at three time-points during follow-up. RESULTS: The
mean weight loss in the treatment group was 21 kg at the end of the 10-week
VLED. At the end of follow-up, the maintained weight loss was 17 kg of
baseline weight. The control group was weight stable throughout the study.
In the treatment group, increases in sex hormone-binding globulin,
testosterone, and high-density lipoprotein-cholesterol, as well as decreases
in insulin and leptin, were maintained until the end of follow-up, although
with VLED, the level of several hormones and metabolic variables improved
transiently during the rapid weight loss. There were no significant changes
in the questionnaire scores on sexual function in either group. DISCUSSION:
We conclude that obese men lose weight and increase their serum testosterone
level on a weight-loss program with VLED and behavior modification. However,
they do not change their sexual function scores.
******
STUDY #3
Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2003 Apr;28(3):364-75. Related Articles, Links
Anticipatory cortisol, testosterone and psychological responses to judo
competition in young men.
Salvador A, Suay F, Gonzalez-Bono E, Serrano MA.
Departamento de Psicobiologia y Psicologia Social, Facultad de Psicologia,
Universidad de Valencia, Apartado 22109 Blasco Ibanez, Spain.
alicia....@uv.es
This study compares the anticipatory hormonal and psychological responses of
17 male judo players to an official competition with the data obtained
during eight resting sessions carried out at the same time of day,
throughout an entire sports season. Testosterone (T) and cortisol (C) levels
were determined 1 h and 30 min before competition, and mood, anxiety and
expectancies were also evaluated. C levels and anxiety scores were
concurrently higher before the contest than in resting conditions; however,
non-significant correlations between them were found. The anticipatory T
response was not significant for the whole group. However, one group of
subjects did display T increases, higher C levels, and higher motivation to
win scores than the other group. Furthermore, this group also obtained a
better outcome. Thus, this hormonal pattern and its relationships with
psychological variables suggest an adaptive psychobiological response to a
competition. Results are discussed in the context that neuroendocrine
response to competition is associated with cognitive appraisal.
******
STUDY #4
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2003 Jan;57(1):100-6. Related Articles, Links
Dietary supplements of soya flour lower serum testosterone concentrations
and improve markers of oxidative stress in men.
Gardner-Thorpe D, O'Hagen C, Young I, Lewis SJ.
Department of Medicine, University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, Wales, UK.
OBJECTIVE: We examined the effects on serum sex steroids, lipids and markers
of oxidative stress of supplementing the diets of healthy male volunteers
with scones made with soya flour. DESIGN: A randomized placebo controlled
cross-over trial. SETTING: University Hospital of Wales. SUBJECTS: Twenty
volunteers recruited by advertisement. INTERVENTIONS: Male volunteers ate
three scones a day in addition to their normal diet for a period of 6 weeks.
The scones were made with either wheat or soya flour (containing 120 mg/day
of isoflavones). Blood was analysed for sex steroids (testosterone,
dihydro-testosterone, oestradiol, oestrone, sex hormone binding globulin,
albumin and the concentration of non-protein bound sex steroids were
calculated), lipid profile (total cholesterol, high density lipoprotein
cholesterol and triglycerides) and measures of oxidative stress
(hydroperoxides, susceptibility of LDL to oxidation with copper and
myeloperoxidase). RESULTS: The volunteers' mean age was 35.6 (s.d. 11.2) y.
Total serum testosterone fell in volunteers taking the soya scones
(19.3-18.2 nmol/l; 95% CI 1.01, 1.12; P=0.03). No significant changes were
seen in the concentrations of the other serum sex steroids, albumin or sex
hormone binding globulin throughout the study. Significant improvements in
two of the three markers of oxidative stress were seen in volunteers taking
soya scones. Lag time for myeloperoxidase rose from 55.0 to 68.0 min (95%
CI -16.0, -3.5; P=0.009) and the presence of hydroperoxides decreased from
2.69 to 2.34 micro mol/l (95% CI 0.12, 0.71; P=0.009). There were no changes
seen in serum triglycerides or cholesterol. CONCLUSIONS: We have shown that
soya supplements reduce serum testosterone and improve markers of oxidative
stress. These findings provide a putative mechanism by which soya
supplements could protect against prostatic disease and atherosclerosis.
Further dietary studies with clinical end points are warranted.
******
STUDY #5
Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2003 Feb;28(2):181-94. Related Articles, Links
Does simvastatin affect mood and steroid hormone levels in
hypercholesterolemic men? A randomized double-blind trial.
Hyyppa MT, Kronholm E, Virtanen A, Leino A, Jula A.
Research and Development Centre of the Social Insurance Institution of
Finland, FIN-20720 Turku, Finland. markku...@kela.memonet.fi
Epidemiological and clinical studies have suggested that powerful
cholesterol lowering may have adverse effects on mood and psychological
well-being. Inhibition of cholesterol biosynthesis by simvastatin (a
hydroxymethyl glutaryl coenzyme A reductase inhibitor) may also reduce
steroid hormone biosynthesis. To explore if mood changes are related with
steroid hormone levels, we designed a randomized double-blind
placebo-controlled crossover trial. The separate and combined effects of a
Mediterranean-type diet intervention and treatment with simvastatin 20
mg/day PO for 12 weeks were studied in 120 hypercholesterolemic but
otherwise healthy middle-aged men. Psychological functioning was assessed
with questionnaires, and steroid hormone levels in blood were assayed
radioimmunologically before and after the treatments. Simvastatin resulted
in a statistically significant increase of depression and somatization
without changes in the anxiety, hostility or aggression scores. Mood changes
seemed to be unrelated with the statistically significant but clinically
insignificant decline in serum testosterone levels and unrelated with the
increase in serum dehydroepiandrosterone levels.
******
STUDY 6
36: Hum Reprod. 2002 Jun;17(6):1554-9. Related Articles, Links
Comment in:
Hum Reprod. 2002 Dec;17(12):3275-6.
The impact of cigarette smoking on human semen parameters and hormones.
Trummer H, Habermann H, Haas J, Pummer K.
Department of Urology, Karl-Franzens University Graz, A-8036 Graz, Austria.
harald....@uni-graz.at
BACKGROUND: In this prospective study, semen parameters and hormone
concentrations of infertile smokers were compared with infertile non- and
ex-smokers. We also determined how many men with idiopathic infertility
would stop smoking in an attempt to improve their fertility. METHODS: 1104
men (517 non-smokers, 109 ex-smokers and 478 smokers) with infertility for
at least 1 year were evaluated. Evaluation included medical history,
physical examination, hormone analysis and two semen analyses. Prior to the
second semen analysis, smokers were urged to quit smoking. RESULTS: Smokers
were significantly younger (P < 0.001), had significantly more round cells
in their ejaculates (P = 0.003), and the percentage of ejaculates with > 1 x
10(6)/ml leukocytes was higher in smokers (P < 0.001). Increased free and
total serum testosterone (P < 0.001) and decreased prolactin levels (P <
0.001) were found in smokers. No differences were found between non-smokers
and ex-smokers. Only 23.1% of the smokers versus 46% non-smokers (P < 0.001)
returned for a second semen analysis, 14 of whom reduced and 15 of whom quit
smoking completely. Testosterone levels were significantly lower in those
who were able to stop or reduce smoking (P < 0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Smoking
does not affect conventional semen parameters, but significantly increases
round cells and leukocytes. Only a few idiopathic infertile smokers were
able to quit smoking.
************
STUDY #7
38: J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2002 Apr 12;65(7):513-21. Related Articles,
Links
Alterations of serum hormone levels in male workers occupationally exposed
to cadmium.
Zeng X, Lin T, Zhou Y, Kong Q.
Department of Occupational Health, Fudan University, Shanghai, China.
In order to investigate the influence of occupational exposure to cadmium
(Cd) on the levels of serum hormone, a cross-sectional study was undertaken
in male workers. Creatinine-adjusted urinary cadmium (UCd) was used as the
indicator of cadmium body burden in workers. The levels of serum
testosterone (T), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and luteinizing
hormone (LH) were determined by radioimmunoassay and enzyme immunoassay,
respectively. The results showed that with cadmium exposure, the levels of
serum testosterone and LH were significantly increased after controlling for
confounding factors such as age, smoking habits, and alcohol consumption.
However, no significant cadmium-associated changes in the levels of serum
FSH were found. At the same time, a significant negative correlation of
serum testosterone levels with age was detected. In contrast, the levels of
serum FSH and LH were significantly elevated with increasing age. When
taking the marital status into consideration, only significantly elevated
FSH levels were noted in married workers after controlling for confounding
factors. These results indicate that occupational cadmium exposure and other
factors such as age and marital status may independently contribute to
alterations in the levels of serum sex hormones in males.
******
STUDY #8
J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2003 Jun 13;66(11):965-86. Related Articles,
Links
Male reproductive hormones and thyroid function in pesticide applicators in
the Red River Valley of Minnesota.
Garry VF, Holland SE, Erickson LL, Burroughs BL.
Pathology Department, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55414,
USA. garr...@umn.edu
In the present effort, 144 pesticide applicators and 49 urban control
subjects who reported no chronic disease were studied. Applicators provided
records of the season's pesticides used by product, volumes, dates, and
methods of application. Blood specimens for examination of hormone levels
were obtained in summer and fall. In the herbicide-only applicator group,
significant increases in testosterone levels in fall compared to summer and
also elevated levels of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing
hormone (LH) in the fall were noted. With respect to fungicide use, in an
earlier cross-sectional epidemiologic study, data demonstrated that historic
fungicide use was associated with a significant alteration of the sex ratio
of children borne to applicators. As before, among current study subjects it
was noted that historic fungicide use was associated with increased numbers
of girls being born. Lower mean total testosterone concentrations by
quartile were also correlated with increased numbers of live-born female
infants. A downward summer to fall seasonal shift in thyroid-stimulating
hormone (TSH) concentrations occurred among applicators but not among
controls. Farmers who had aerial application of fungicides to their land in
the current season showed a significant shift in TSH values (from 1.75 to
1.11 mU/L). Subclinical hypothyroidism was noted in 5/144 applicators (TSH
values >4.5 mU/L), but not in urban control subjects. Based on current and
past studies, it was concluded that, in addition to pesticide exposure,
individual susceptibility and perhaps economic factors may play a supporting
role in the reported results.
******
partyoffive
Wow David,
You are up on your case studies. Anyway, short answer to some
questions you ask , no my husband has no existing medical condition to
warrant testing t levels we are physically active/health conscious (and
I am in the healthcare field by the way) people, we yearly have labs
drawn, including tsh, bld glucose etc. etc. just as preventive
screening purposes.
I agree the drop in the t levels do warrant getting my husband to have
a thorough physical by an m.d. And to note; the t levels were done
before and then after the vas was done, the labs were all drawn in the
early a.m. at the same time and the one before (that was in "normal
range") as well as one after were done in the "same season", the last
one was done in the winter and it was the lowest. Accounting for aging
as an issue in decrease the only studies I have read is that t levels
gradually decrease with aging.
My husband does have a lot of the symptoms of decreased t levels also.
But anyway, the statement to the original poster was that my husband
has had a negative experience post vas (pain issues, orgasm wise etc.)
mentioning the t levels like I said no way to "correlate" his drop with
the vas specifically but I just wanted to mention it.
a.
trif...@netscape.net
> Like the poster Steve, my husband who had his vasectomy over 1 yr ago
> has had pain problems after his vasectomy as well as "diminished
> feelings" with orgasm. Also to note, which I cannot correlate
directly
> to the vasectomy although that is the only thing that had changed in
my
> husbands situation was the fact that his testosterone levels dropped
> "drastically" from normal to well below normal levels in a short
period
> of time.
Did he have his T levels tested right before the vasectomy, then? As
David says, T. varies dramatically for lots of reasons, and there is no
clear level that is considered normal for all men. But if his levels
are below 300 or so, then he should get a full medical workup as soon
as possible. There is no way the vasectomy could be responsible, since
vasectomy does not affect T production. T is produced in the
testicles, but then transmitted directly into the blood, not through
the vas. tubes. There would have to be something else wrong with him.
Even guys who have written here claiming vas. can lower T say this
would occur over a long period of time due to sustained backpressure.
It sounds like your saying your husband's T went down quickly. So get
it checked out. Don't assume Vas. is to blame when something else
might be going on. By the way, how old is he?
trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
>
>
> A.
trif...@netscape.net
Which vasectomy method did he have? And how long ago was it before he
began experience pain and lack of feeling during orgasm? Has he talked
to a doctor about any of this?
trif...@netscape.net
> Like the poster Steve, my husband who had his vasectomy over 1 yr ago
> has had pain problems after his vasectomy as well as "diminished
> feelings" with orgasm. Also to note, which I cannot correlate
directly
> to the vasectomy although that is the only thing that had changed in
my
> husbands situation was the fact that his testosterone levels dropped
> "drastically" from normal to well below normal levels in a short
period
> of time.
Did he have his T levels tested right before the vasectomy, then? As
trif...@netscape.net
> Like the poster Steve, my husband who had his vasectomy over 1 yr ago
> has had pain problems after his vasectomy as well as "diminished
> feelings" with orgasm. Also to note, which I cannot correlate
directly
> to the vasectomy although that is the only thing that had changed in
my
> husbands situation was the fact that his testosterone levels dropped
> "drastically" from normal to well below normal levels in a short
period
> of time.
Did he have his T levels tested right before the vasectomy, then? As
David
>
> You are up on your case studies.
I'm a mine of useless information at times too! I beat my Aunt and Uncle at
trivial pursuit once by winning on some dire trivia question from 70's kids
tv. He's a teacher and she's a pharmacist and both are key players on their
village quiz league. Pissed them off something rotten to be beaten by
something so trivial.
I digress.....
> I agree the drop in the t levels do warrant getting my husband to have
> a thorough physical by an m.d. And to note; the t levels were done
> before and then after the vas was done, the labs were all drawn in the
> early a.m. at the same time and the one before (that was in "normal
> range") as well as one after were done in the "same season", the last
> one was done in the winter and it was the lowest. Accounting for aging
> as an issue in decrease the only studies I have read is that t levels
> gradually decrease with aging.
I would suggest getting it checked out. You may want to have a look at
trying Zinc supplements. If he is deficient in zinc, then either taking
supplements or making dietary changes will increase T levels dramatically. I
would stress that this should be done under medical supervision having
diagnoses thst he is indeed deficient in zinc.
> My husband does have a lot of the symptoms of decreased t levels also.
> But anyway, the statement to the original poster was that my husband
> has had a negative experience post vas (pain issues, orgasm wise etc.)
> mentioning the t levels like I said no way to "correlate" his drop with
> the vas specifically but I just wanted to mention it.
You have a good point here. Doctors primarily go on the symptoms of low
testosterone as opposed to readings. Readings can help in the diagnosis of
course, but if there are no symptoms then it's likely the reading is "Normal
for you". What symptoms does he have specifically?
I do have a theory to run past you. I stress that is what it is - simply an
idea that is not based on any medical research, but it might make some
sense.
Studies into vasectomy and testosterone have been done. The problem the
researchers face in determining if there is any correlation is the factors
mentioned in the earlier post - hence most studies come back with "Within
normal ranges". Some studies did come back with the tentative result that
testosterone remains higher in vasectomised men later in life. These studies
led to the prostate cancer / vasectomy scare. It is known that higher
testosterone levels can have a correlation with prostate cancer incidence -
hence the concerns about TRT and the male pills that use testosterone to
supress sperm production.
Some of the causes of low testosterone are being genrally unwell, run down,
emotional distress and depression. Nobody has done any research into
testosterone levels of men who suffer what is known as PVP. It's just
possible that if someone (like your husband) is suffering from any medical
complaint (including post vasectomy problems) that their levels may be
temporarily low as a result of eing generally run down. As I said, it's
purely my musings based on posts here over the years and not based on any
research.
I would get your husband to go and see a doctor. Also, (as I'm sure you know
already) it's a bad idea to make assumptions or self-diagnose. It simply
makes the job of the guy trying to help you a lot more difficult.
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
partyoffive
He had the routine vas procedure done, 2 incisions, cut vas tubes and
cauterize. I was not in the room when the dr did the procedure (due to
having to watch my small children) but I will say that he complained of
severe pain when the dr was doing the rt side, he said it felt like the
dr poked the needle deep into his testicle, he had a lot of swelling on
that side post op and had some bleeding from both incision sites
post-op. He complained of pain for some time after the procedure and I
contacted the drs office they prescribed an antibiotic which he took
for 10 days. He never complained about anything again to me until 9
months later and he was still having pain (mainly during ejac.) he said
that he had the pain ever since the surgery had been done but didn't
want to say anything to me. I had called and talked to the drs office
again and they suggested he come back and see the dr, but my husband
refused to.
He now tells me that he has no pain (anyway that is what he says) but
that it now feels different during orgasm, a lot like Steve said like
it doesn't completely empty.
He had the procedure done Oct. 2003, he is currently 42yrs old. His
last testosterone level was 192 ng/dl.
And a side note, I totally understand that Testosterone is not
transported in the vas deferens, but please note that surgery/trauma to
the testicles can damage T producing cells and alter T levels.
A.
partyoffive
David,
That is a good point, him having pain post-op for a long time after the
surgery etc. may have altered his t levels. Also, see my posting to
Trifold, my husband complained of pain during the procedure and had
some things post op and I have read in articles that surgery/trauma to
the Testicles could damage the t producing cells. Now not to say the
dr did do something accidentally while injecting/excising etc. during
the procedure, in hindsight I wish I had been in the surgery room
during the procedure.
I totally agree about self-diagnosis but being in the healthcare
industry, well it's hard not too.
a.
trif...@netscape.net
> He had the routine vas procedure done, 2 incisions, cut vas tubes and
> cauterize. I was not in the room when the dr did the procedure (due
to
> having to watch my small children) but I will say that he complained
of
> severe pain when the dr was doing the rt side, he said it felt like
the
> dr poked the needle deep into his testicle, he had a lot of swelling
on
> that side post op and had some bleeding from both incision sites
> post-op. He complained of pain for some time after the procedure and
I
> contacted the drs office they prescribed an antibiotic which he took
> for 10 days.
I think they should have suggested he come in. My doc. (within a US
HMO) required me to come in a week after just to look things over, even
without a report of pain. Then he looked again--and asked some
pointed questions--each of the two times I came in to give the semen
samples.
> months later and he was still having pain (mainly during ejac.) he
said
> that he had the pain ever since the surgery had been done but didn't
> want to say anything to me. I had called and talked to the drs
office
> again and they suggested he come back and see the dr, but my husband
> refused to.
Typical guy stuff. I don't know how to get him around it. I think it
helps lots of guys to be able to say to the doc., "My wife wanted me to
bring this up."
> He now tells me that he has no pain (anyway that is what he says) but
> that it now feels different during orgasm, a lot like Steve said like
> it doesn't completely empty.
Well, this is a small improvment. But, of course, it is far from
ideal. As I 've suggested, I'm bewildered by talk of feeling the epi.
drain, since I don't belive this happens physiologically even in
non-vasectomised men, at least not during orgasm. But orgasm is more
subjective than people think. If his T is low, it could be affecting
much of his perception, including his sexual satisfaction. Is he
having any erection problems? These are usually not related to T
issues, but if he is worried about ED that could be affecting his whole
attitude toward sex. Now, erections are even more "subjective" than
orgasm. But there are also chemical cures. So he might want to look
into those if ED is one of his symptoms. Viagra, cialis or whatever
could restore his confidence enough so that the ED part of the problem
would go away. And the rest might follow.
> He had the procedure done Oct. 2003, he is currently 42yrs old. His
> last testosterone level was 192 ng/dl.
> And a side note, I totally understand that Testosterone is not
> transported in the vas deferens, but please note that surgery/trauma
to
> the testicles can damage T producing cells and alter T levels.
Yes. But the problem during the vas., if there was one, appears to
have been on the right side only (by the way, my doctor had a harder
time with my right one, too: it hangs higher!). And as David points
out, often even with the removal of the entire testicle, T levels don't
drop to the point of requiring hormone replacement. (I have a friend
who had a testicle removed in his 30s due to testicular cancer, and is
not on hormone therapy 25 years later. He's also a runner and horny
most of the time from what i can tell.)
The low T levels need to be addressed, for sure.
Charles Davidson
great....except for a drop in testosterone level. I have done some research
on it and find some Doc's that think it could be linked...would like to know
for sure.
C
"partyoffive" <ani...@dnetsystems.com> wrote in message
news:1107963566....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
trif...@netscape.net
Charles Davidson wrote:
> I also have had a V about 11 yrs ago. Since then everything has been
> great....except for a drop in testosterone level. I have done some
research
> on it and find some Doc's that think it could be linked...would like
to know
> for sure.
Can you direct us to any medical studies that suggest T drop is
associated with vasectomy?
trifold
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org