PVPS - a fact of life
Luan
First please know: I am NOT against Vasectomy or any effective male birth
control method, I know most men are very happy with the result. I felt a
huge relief after the surgery believing I was never going to have to worry
about pregancy again! I tried to Join the Club of Happy Sterile Men and I
am discovering some interesting facts. Vasectomy is like an iceberg -
What you see and hear is not he whole story!! What you see is mostly
wonderful and good but like ICE most details are below the surface and
invisible. What I am AGAINST is promoting the false but common belief
that there is really nothing important below the surface. And promoting
the belief that everything below the surface is "mental" in nature and
need not be treated as or thought of as a sometimes painful disabling
physical injury.
To those who know (PVPS victims) an explanation is unnecessary.
To those who do not know (happy sterile men) all explaning is
insufficient.
We will always be talking in 2 "languages" here concerning vasectomy. I
can forgive and understand this ignorance in most cases simply because not
so long ago I was one who did not understand either. I found this fine web
site AFTER I was suffering from classic symptoms of PVPS for about 2 months
but I still had never heard the term and was clinging to hope that someday
I might wake up and discover I had just been dreaming a bad dream. At
this same time I read Steve and Lisa's story as well as others. I did not
really comprehend well these writings, it sounded too impossible and
miserable to believe, but I copied it and started a file of "vasectomy
information" in my PC. I re-read the Steve and Lisa story at about 6
months into my suffering and this time It hit me like a ton of bricks!!
This time I knew it was total truth because it described well what was
happening to me and I no longer could deny it! By 6 months I no longer
had energy to push away the torture PVPS piles on a man. However, to this
day I can easily understand the ignorance of those who have no intimate
connection to the horrendous suffering PVPS causes for the man and his
family. If I had any clue that something like PVPS existed prior to my
decision to have vasectomy there is no doubt, NONE. I NEVER would have
considered taking this risk. Even the poorly defined but admitted term
"RARE" would have spared me this misery and all of you my annoying
writing. I decided to find the meaning of "RARE" as it applies to me
personally in the place I live so when I returned home on 7 May, 2005 I
began my survey. As you may know from a previous post Rare here in this
small rural farming community - from my sample of 49 vasectomized men to
date - RARE here is about 9%. ( PVPS meaning long term problems after
vasectomy that has left the man either in pain or unable to have sex or
resulted in loss of testicles and is certainly connected to the vasectomy,
not an unrelated condition) I am still searching for the FIRST person who
has heard of PVPS but not intimately connected to the problem.(Not a
sufferer or wife or child of the man) I have asked over 100 people
including 6 nurses and nobody yet is aware that this problem connected to
vasectomy exists. I am very surprised that I had so little trouble
finding victims but have yet to meet a person who had heard of Post
Vasectomy Pain Syndrome (either the Term or the described Condition).
Many of the people I ask, personally do know one of the victims I found
and in some cases I told them, "You know someone with this long term pain
condition" - PVPS - to see if they might have simply forgotten, but it is
obvious so far none have ever been informed. Draw your conclusions if you
believe what I say, and if you doubt me give me a call (7155530717) or
visit Polk County, Wisconsin, usA and ask who the local balloonist is and
come to visit me. I am not ashamed of what happened to me, it was not my
fault. Some people should be ashamed for not informing men of the rare
chance of PVPS prior to inflicting this awful condition on them. If this
is a laughing matter - and I know many are laughing including "Dave" as he
told me/us in a recent post - please remember I intend to have the last
laugh.
PVPS is Dangerous! Here is an example from the past week. I have been
using Testosterone Therapy for 3 months now with pretty good results so
far as pain relief goes. I had a bad testosterone injection from an
incompetent nurse 6 weeks ago. That resulted in rather nasty "pain in my
butt" (actually she missed my Butt muscle and hit bone) still present but
fading some and I suspect it may have upset my hormone levels because this
past week PVPS came back to visit me full force. First this discomfort
presented as the "1 kilogram weight" hanging on my testicles - for 3 days
(that discomfort sensation had reduced to about "4 ounces" after the
testosterone therapy kicked in). Next I had one good day followed by 3
days of what I call "The Invisible Electric Fence Condition". This is
when walking and bending or turning can set off the "Electric" pains
begining near the testicle and then shooting down my right leg. If you
ever walked into an electric fence in the dark you know a little about
this type of pain, or has someone managed to talk you into peeing on an
electric fence?(I never did that but the descriptions I have heard sound
about right except the penis in not involved!) It is impossible to
predict exactly when it might happen but 10 to 20 times a day it does
happen as I try to work. This pain can be strong enough to cause my leg
to collapse so lifting or carrying, although it does not seem to cause or
provoke this pain, is avoided because if I fall with heavy objects I risk
more injury. I think anyone can imagine (if not too consumed with
laughter) that this makes my mood a bit foul. I accepted some work from a
man L.J. last Saturday. It was a heavy machine part that needed welding
and turning. I did not plan to do this job myself but rather took it to
another vendor hoping he would make the major repair and allow me do a
small portion of the work, inspect the results, and get this machine back
into production for Mr L J by Tuesday. All went well and Wed morning L J
came to get his repaired machine parts. I do not know L J except for one
repair job (in july) and he paid me cash when he came previously. This
time he took out his check book... and told me it was his last check... (I
later noticed it was number 5263 - probably not the last check in the book)
and asked if he could make the amount for a bit more and receive some cash
from me so he could have lunch. I accepted the "over amount" check with
red flags in my mind!! I took the check to the bank 2 hours later - it
was not good!! I flew into a rage! I called L J and left a message
telling him to call me before this day was over concerning the check. I
was so upset I could not think or concentrate on anything. I knew I had
to find L J and get this resolved Immediately. I went to my house to get
a side arm.(I intended to prevail in any confrontation) I was trying to
decide what to take - 44 mag or 357. The 357 is actually more deadly but
the 44 is more intimidating. As I pondered which gun to take I thought of
something, my tags on the car were expired! If I get stopped by police
with a loaded gun in the car then I have problems!! I decided to go
without a gun. It was a 20 mile journey and I arrived in a mood to rip
someones head off. It seemed nobody was home. I searched the farm and
found no-one. I looked for the recently repaired parts and would have
taken them back for sure but L J obviously had not been home with them
yet. I waited nearly one hour. Finally I went to Carter Dueholm's farm 7
miles away. (Harvey Dueholm,uncle to Carter, was a State Assemblyman)
Carter usually knows the reputation of people and I could ask about Mr L J
and his NFS check. Lucky, Carter was home. We talked about many things
including vasectomy (Carter didn't have one and never heard of PVPS) and
finally I brought up my reason for being there. Carter said he knew L J
well. Carter said the check should be good. Carter told me, "I'm so sure
that check is going to be good that I will give you the cash now if you
like." The "bomb" was finally defused. Carter said, "L J gets his milk
check on the 18th and you can cash it after that." 9:00 pm Wednesday, L J
called me, responding to my earlier call, and apologized saying he lost
track of his bank balance and that if I could wait till the 18th the check
would be good. I said, "Fine, no problem at all." (little does he know)
This is just what happened last week, my PVPS has a history 11 months long
now. I have had many changes in personality, my patience, my moods, my
judgment, and some changes are Potentially Deadly! (Like sleep
depraviation and driving) My Real Rage is toward the people who have
decided to sugar coat or deny the reality of complications vasectomy can
bring. I do not feel responsible at all for actions I have taken or may
take in the future so long as I suffer the misery of PVPS or the result of
drug therapy used in treating it. Luan, beaten up by PVPS and enraged by
the ignorant people in the medical profession is now unpredictable and
possibly violent - totally unlike my past. I did shoot a man on the
evening of 12 march, 1988 but that was clearly in self defense and the
defense of others, he needed to be shot. Now I am feeling defensive
again, and a bit more aggressive. I have less to lose. I have had a
good/great life. I am 58 and no longer responsible for a young family
like most men who suffer from PVPS. Most men with PVPS or some less
miserable but long term discomforts occuring after vasectomy have little
choice but to make the best of the bad result. It is very easy to find
men who are not happy with vasectomy due to changes in their sex life or
long term "discomforts". However, to find these men I must ask several
times, they usually will not talk of it until later conversations reveal
that I have these problem too! Anyone who has visited this wonderful web
site is plenty well informed of vasectomy complications. Anyone who reads
the material posted here and later has a vasectomy has made a "conscious
choice" and I cannot waste my time helping him if he is a Rare Casuality.
I wish to know only those who like me were totally ignorant of PVPS prior
to the decision and operation. I was listening for and gathering
information about vasectomy since the age of 12, but nothing or no one
ever revealed the long term complications to me. I hope to prevent PVPS
by giving every man and his partner a chance to decide for themselves
after information concerning PVPS is made available to them. If all were
informed properly so they know PVPS happens - "sometimes" - then the only
remaining task is to try to convey a little of what PVPS might do long
term to the man and his family suffering from this "rare" and now self
inflicted disease. Before the proper information is made Public and
becomes Common Knowlege, (so everyone KNOWS that PVPS is a Real physical
condition), this disease is inflicted by Doctors and Organizations on the
unsuspecting man and his family. THIS IS CLEARLY A CRIME. A RARE CRIME
IS STILL A CRIME. If I SHOOT A VASECTOMY DOCTOR you all will likely call
that a crime. Because Vasectomy Doctors are Rarely shot by the men who
end with PVPS may I claim it is OK? Rare seems to be OK in the reverse.
Since there virtually is NO public awareness of the PVPS risk I will call
shooting the perpetrator Self Defense and Defense of Others under the
Wisconsin State Laws - IF the Doctor and his Organization did not inform
the patient properly of PVPS before vasectomy. If I recover from this
disabling injury through surgery or some other miracle then I suspect my
present feelings and resolve will fade slightly and some of my NORMAL life
will return. If I do not recover from PVPS all bets are off. If a jury
finds me guilty of murder someday so be it. Having incurable PVPS would
remind me constantly that I did the correct thing. To work with PVPS I
have learned it is necesary to have Plan A and Plan B and maybe Plan C
too. I have Plan A.... reversal, at least right side to relieve back
pressure that hopefully is the cause of PVPS. This plan will be perfected
during and soon after the hormone therapy finishes. I am working on Plan
B. Just for the record: I think vasectomy, without information
concerning the "Rare" Complication of PVPS along with a good explaination
of what PVPS is - IF it results in an incurable case of PVPS to the man is
in the same crime catigory as Murder One, it destroys a mans life. Two
wrongs do not make a right, BUT I have a RIGHT to Self Defense in this
State, as well as a right to defend others. Now have your good laugh!!!
Laughter is the best medicine. Remember: He who laughs last - laughs
BEST.
LUAN
P.S. Who will offer to pay the bill for my medical expenses, like
reversal surgery? I will be asking money from all those involved who did
not inform me of the risk before I had the orginal surgery. I have to
wonder also: Is this vasectomy - reversal game just a greedy system
designed for huge profit with men playing the roll of pawns? PVPS is a
huge annoyance to this system with potentially devistating consequences.
KC
main points in 200 words or less please?
Steve
church, seek counselling there. If you can afford it, (maybe even if
you can't) get professional counselling. I spent about $3,000 out of
pocket seeing a good counsellor that wasn't on my insurance company's
network for about a year, and it was worth every penny. I also met
with my pastor on a weekly (sometime more often) basis to attempt to
manage the anger, frustration, and despair, and to resolve the
spiritual issues the my circumstances caused. When you're feeling what
you're feeling, you've got to look outside yourself for help.
Best wishes,
Steve
Luan
minutes. Maybe U R a slow reader. I have squeezed my story into 31 words
for you....
If you're thinking of getting a vas I must recommend that you pass
It don't feel so nice and it's expensive to splice
LET NO ONE MESS AROUND NEAR YOUR ASS!!
David
though and want to pick up on a couple of points.
1 - you clearly have a serious problem with anger management that has
nothing to do with vasectomy. You state (not for the first time) that in the
past you have shot a man because he "needed to be shot". I honestly think
that is something you really need to get help with and resolve for your own
good. How does thinking like that help you, or those around you??
2 - you accuse people here of mocking you. I don't see that as the case. I
gather you don't have a sense of humour, and I would imagine that this was
the case pre-vasectomy - other people here *do* have a sense of humour, and
you should allow for this.
3 - you have a general unwillingless to accept any of the points or advice
people here offer you - even fellow sufferers points. I honestly don't know
what you want us to say!
I'm hesitant to offer any opinion as I really see no point. I would suggest
that what may help you is 1, dealing with the anger management problem. I'm
not suggesting the pain is in your head, so please don't misinterpret me,
but it may be that by getting help for your general anger management
problem, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that this may help. 2, it
may be an idea to accept the fact that any legal action you decided to take
is unlikely to result in anything more that the lawyers getting paid for
achieving nothing, and move on. Concentrate on getting a resolve medically.
Luan
The last 4 to 5 days my pain has reduced to where I can work without fear
of severe pain as I take my next step. I suspect the hormone therapy has
kicked in again. I have had a decent PRIVATE nurse giving shots the last 4
times (all were painless!) I still have annoying pain from the 4th shot
given by the BAD nurse 8 weeks ago at the clinic where I began treatment.
8 weeks of pain from an injection is insult added to injury! I don't
think I need counselling nearly so much as I need pain relief!! If I had
a young family and wife to live with I know this would be many times as
difficult! I can barely imagine how this would have affected me 30 years
ago. Being unable to work now is not so important, I am able to do about
50% of normal this past 11 1/2 months. I do notice a manic depressive
condition that goes exactly with the pain situation. There is no lag now,
it happens instantly! The day I can walk without pain following days of
miserable chronic "Electric Shooting Pains" in my right leg is a very
Euphoric time and then by the 3rd day I am pretty much normal. When the
pains return and cause me inability to think and work depression is
instantly there too. I believe some pubilc speaking on this subject might
be my best therapy on the mental side. I continue to talk to nearly
everyone I meet concerning this social problem and on average 1 to 2 hours
of each day seems to be consumed either on telephone or in personal
conversations. Men and wemen seem to be very interested in this facet of
vasectomy. Remember, before I had the vas I asked a personal friend who
is a PHD in psycology and he gave me some bad information that got me into
this mess. He had been confused by his doc into believing some PVP he had
was unrelated so he didn't mention this to me. My trust in professional
people is very low and to pay them out of pocket is unlikely in my case.
I do have one fine pastor friend that I can visit and I may do just that!
Thanks
Luan
nothing to do with vasectomy. You state (not for the first time) that in
the
past you have shot a man because he "needed to be shot". I honestly think
that is something you really need to get help with and resolve for your
own
good. How does thinking like that help you, or those around you??
First I will say: IT IS GREAT to be able to walk nearly normal for the
first time in almost a year! The past 6 days now are steadily improving!
I had forgotten how it feels to be able to walk or run or jump - without
the fear of pain in this past 11 + months of suffering the result of my 6
sept 04 Vasectomy. It is my guess that finally the testosterone therapy
is working as it should. I have my own bottle of medication - My own
needles - and my own Private Nurse to inject me and finally things are
being done correctly and painlessly. It sure would be nice to have a
doctor and some nurses in the local clinic who were "intelligent enough"
or cared enough to help me, but sadly this is not the case here.
"Anger Managment" That is an intertesting term. maybe you mean Pain
Managment, that is the problem. So far as the man I shot.... Remember,
here we have the right to bear arms. I will go a little further and say
the "responsibility" if we choose. The police cannot and will not do very
much for us sometimes. They record the crimes after the fact. To prevent
crime a citizen needs to protect himself. I possibly prevented a murder
(his estranged wife) on 12 Mar. 1988 by shooting this man. When he was
discharged from the hospital (9 days) he was taken to the County Jail for
15 days. The county police scolded me for using a full metal jacket
bullet and not killing him! They made me believe if I am going to use a
gun in the future I better do my best to kill with the first shot. I now
have a bigger gun(s) and it is loaded with the most deadly bullets. This
man and I had been good friends, but he did lie (over a matter of $25) to
me and spoiled the friendship. I was never truly angry with him.
I am angry with "the system" that TIED a ONE KILLOGRAM weight to my
testicles, without warning me first, which is very difficult and time
consuming to undo. I am angry that I was never informed even though I
looked in all the places I knew to look for information and listened for
46 years to be sure this was a safe thing to do. It is really
unbelievable that vasectomy goes on without men having proper knowlege of
the real risks. For the record: IF ONE MAN was responsible for the damage
done to me - I mean if one doctor had told me the lies... done the
surgery...and tried to cover up the bad result as has been done already by
several doctors, if it was all done by one man I most likely would have
killed him by now, hopefully not from a position of anger as that is not
like me. How can I impress on you and everyone how BAD PVPS is? I can
truly say that I would have rather spent the past year in the County Jail
than to be a "free Man" with PVPS. (if it meant I could be out in one year
with my orginal body back) PVPS is a real SON-OF-A-BITCH. What I find is
quite depressing. Men in general are responsible for my mistake in
trusting the medical people to do this "simple little snip". I have
concluded it is the Slave Mentality and Herd Instinct most men have that
results in this Operation going on as it does (no true information about
complications given to the man). My problem is that I have a free spirit
and I do not follow the herd. I should have been protected from this
disaster by these qualities and maybe it is interesting that I waited till
age 58 to stretch my trust enough to take the risk of trusting all men to
not omitt telling me something I needed to know. But ALL MEN did fail me.
However, unlike them I will not join the ranks of the slaves and the herd.
I will tell the truth as it happened and is happening to me for the
benefit of some unknown boy who then might avoid the mistake I made. As
one doctor told me, many men actually "like some level of pain and
discomfort" as that is what they are used to and he also used these words,
"One mans pain is another mans pleasure." Vasectomy begans to make sense
viewed from the eyes of a "slave" or someone who is dying to be like
everyone else! People like me can be kept out of this mess if there is
just a tiny bit of information telling of complications - PVPS - I am so
sorry I invaded the camp of those who enjoy the risk and need the misery
vas can bring. I did not intend to be an unwelcome guest at this party!
Maybe I am RARE in that the level of pain I suffer has caused me to lose
my way of life temporairly. What I find is that PVPS is not RARE but
rather common. My reaction to it is rare because I know a crime has been
comitted against me and I resent that! Most men accept bad treatment much
better than I do. Is that what you mean by anger managment? I need to
allow my spirit to be crushed by the pain I suffer at the hands of
organized criminals? Is it not the crime of Battery to do physical damage
to a person against their will? Is not informing a man (who is ignorant of
PVPS) and then preforming vasectomy the same as doing it against his will?
I believe a good lawyer with enough money and time can win this case.
trif...@netscape.net
Luan wrote:
> I believe a good lawyer with enough money and time can win this case.
Unless you shoot him first.
trifold
k...@odiff.if
>I am angry that I was never informed even though I
>looked in all the places I knew to look for information and listened for 46 years to be sure this was a safe thing to do. It is really
>unbelievable that vasectomy goes on without men having proper knowlege of the real risks.
>
I had vas beginning of this year (4+ months after you did), but had been
researching over the internet for about an year an half prior to it
(since mid 2003).. Most sites that I came across had information about
the vasectomy complications... I accepted the risk and went ahead, and
if things did not go as well as it did, I would blame none but myslef
for choosing to do it.. (except in case of negligence practice)
This NG (and archives) has been exceptionally helpful for me in
educating me and kind of helping me in preparing the list of questions
to ask the doctor, etc..
Say, further studies change the statistics about PSVP from 5 to 20%.. so
what ? does it take away the personal choice ? I've read your mails for
a while and you seem to blame everyone outside yourself for all your
problems.. and still you claim you are a person of free spirit !
Sure, your friends, your relatives, men in general, vas doctors, etc..
may be frauds, but if you choose to beleive them, then you are the
gullible guy !
>Is not informing a man (who is ignorant of PVPS) and then preforming vasectomy the same as doing it against his will? I believe a good lawyer with enough money and time can win this case.
>
>
my doctor had a disclaimer about the vas complications which i signed
during vas consult.. not sure if you had one.. btw, which surgery does
not have complications ? unless your doc did a bad job, i don't see how
you have a valid case...
So in essence, if you had done your research on the net, you would have
found lot of info about vas complications; either you did not do your
homework or you started your education after you hit a snag.. Sorry it
turned out this way, and hope things will work out for you..
Regards,
//kdp
Luan
from words only and most written under the stress of PVPS it is hard to
know me very well.
I knew of the complications involving infection, bleeding etc. which are
complications from surgery. I knew about 22 friends and relatives who had
had vas and 4 of them had some rather nasty, but relatively easy to recover
from, complications. I read information from at least 6 web sites
including Mayoclinic.com and never saw any information on PVPS or any
mention of post vasectomy cronic pain. Mayoclinic.com changed their page
3 weeks after I wrote to them concerning my problems. My searching was
done before August of 2004 and if there was any info concerning PVPS on
the common sites that appear when a search for "vasectomy" is made I
missed visiting that page. I read several pages many times and did not
Miss this information in reading. Try the site Planned Parenthood now and
see if you find anything about chronic pain and vas, last month I could not
find anything. If I was doing my search now - YES - the info is there! I
have asked well over 100 people including 6 nurses about PVPS since May of
2005 here in my home area and I still have not found one person who has any
knowlege of PVPS. My late Brother-in-law was a urologist and preformed
many vasectomies - many many - but I never asked about the complications
as I did not know there were any beyond the infections and bleeding
problems.... he never offered info to me or my sister who he was married
to for 17 years. The Doctor who is helping me now with Hormone therapy
says of the 100+ men he has done vas on he has no problems and he says he
doesn't know anything about PVPS but is willing to help me with the
therapy suggested by another doctor. It is true that even 6 months later
I would have avoided this operation because the information was available
by that time. And we will never know if the Mayoclinic.com page was
changed because of my writing. As I suspected by March of this year, I
was living among men with PVPS, one for 25 years. I scuba dived with
another man who has a worse PVPS case than me and he has had this problem
for 11 years now. The papers I signed said nothing about chronic long
term pain. I first learned about Vasectomy in July of 1958 from a
neighbor who had it and was happy with the result. I thought about
vasectomy regularly throughout my adult life. My interest in sexual
subjects was always Keen. I read my brother-in-laws medical books
concerning vasectomy. I thought I knew enough and could trust the people
who print information and do operations. Then after being very careful
and doing everything I thought possible, I get run down by a freight train
named "PVPS" !!! And you suggest it is my fault? Some of my friends
(Steve and Dave) I asked before vasectomy told me they had NO PROBLEMS,
NOTHING CHANGED but now they admit otherwise.. is that my fauly? I am
sure my Brother-in-law could have and would have told me if he knew but he
died 10 years before I had this vas. He never had a vas himself and he
needed one as much as any man ever did but my sister never asked him to
consider it and he never mentioned why he did not do it. Things have
changed a little so far as informations goes and this would never happen
to me now (one year later). But if you are curious about the level of
general knowlege just start asking people on the street if they know about
the complications (pvps) of vasectomy. I am very surprised I have not yet
found one who knows (excluding those who have PVPS or are married to them
or children of them). I have talked to 49 men who had vasectomy. Eight
of these men could have told me what I needed to know. The one man I
based my trust in was one who could have informed me but his doctor told
him his post vas problems were not related to the vas just like the doctor
I went to after 3 months of problems. This was incorrect, cover-up
information. I am a self supporting person only had a "job" for a few
months of my entire life. I take responsibility naturally for what I do
as there is nobody else to shove it off on. I am a pilot with 2500 hours
in the air and I live or die with my decisions. This vasectomy business
reminds me of some Sky Diving I did in Alaska back in the 70s. The old
hard core guys in this club were a little strange with their humor. If
they saw a man pack his chute incorrectly they would not tell him. They
just watched when he jumped again to see what would happen. Of course we
all had reserve chutes and could survive a malfunction. However, I DO NOT
need friends like this! I think it is like this with vasectomy. Don't
Tell and then see what the poor unsuspecting man will do when he
MALFUNCTIONS! It is like playing Russian Roullet... the poor ignorant
guy who shots himself in the head is a joke and he USUALLY doesn't talk
either! PVPS has been PART OF VASECTOMY since day one! 50 years of this
big joke is about enough I hope.
Best to everyone
PS my pain symptoms are as small as I can remember this last week and I
hope to fly again tomorrow (my birthday) for the first time this year.
David
> I read information from at least 6 web sites
> including Mayoclinic.com and never saw any information on PVPS or any
> mention of post vasectomy cronic pain. Mayoclinic.com changed their page
> 3 weeks after I wrote to them concerning my problems.
Well, the page on the mayo clinic site only says the following:-
"Scrotal pain. Up to one-third of men experience pain that persists longer
than three months. Usually, it's mild enough to be treated with
over-the-counter or prescription pain medications. But, rarely, it may be
severe enough to require other treatment."
I don't call that particular wording particulary strong, and it doesn't
mention pvps by name at all.
> My searching was
> done before August of 2004 and if there was any info concerning PVPS on
> the common sites that appear when a search for "vasectomy" is made I
> missed visiting that page.
The group website has been online for over 5 years now. Type vasectomy into
any search engine and you will find it on the first page. Currently on
google.com it is number 3, and google.co.uk it's at number 1. This has been
the case for several years. The design of the website has largely been
unchanged for 2-3 years now.
The FAQ page (also pretty much unchanged for a couple of years) mentions pvp
by name under long term problems, along with a description of what it is. It
links to the section in the medical journals area where pvp studies are
listed, a page of links to information on pvp, and a section on the page
that looks at incidence of PVP in major studies, treatment options and their
success rates. The FAQ page is probably the most read page on the site.
The stories section has the testimonials of men suffering pvp - "Steve &
Lisa" was the most read story at the time you were researching your
vasectomy.
So at the time you were researching, there WAS the information about pvp and
how it can affect sufferers. The website most certainly would have been
found on page 1 of a search for vasectomy using any search engine, and the
information has been placed where people can find it.
The site also appears on the first page of most queries about vasectomy on
most search engines.
If you used the dmoz.org site, or any of the search engines that use the
dmoz directory as a results page you would probably have stumbled across the
dontfixit site. Alphabetically that site comes above mine, as my site starts
with the letter "V".
Yes, the information was easy to find, yes it was there, and no, you didn't
have to scroll to page 47000 to find it. It's there on page 1 of all search
engines and directories. The claim that it wasn't is erroneous, and the
wording on the mayo site can hardly be called a victory in any way, shape or
form.
> I read several pages many times and did not
> Miss this information in reading. Try the site Planned Parenthood now and
> see if you find anything about chronic pain and vas, last month I could
> not
> find anything. If I was doing my search now - YES - the info is there!
Luan, the information MOST CERTAINLY WAS there at the time too. Nothing has
changed since August '04.
> But if you are curious about the level of
> general knowlege just start asking people on the street if they know about
> the complications (pvps) of vasectomy. I am very surprised I have not yet
> found one who knows (excluding those who have PVPS or are married to them
> or children of them).
Asking people on the street about pvps is bound to get you blank looks, and
I really don't see why this should surprise anyone. MSI did a study into
male attitudes to vasectomy recently.
http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/pdf/vasectomy-the-male-perspective.pdf
Only 26% of men aged 18-54 could correctly describe a vasectomy procedure.
Only 36% of men knew that you still ejaculate after vasectomy
Only 43% of men knew that vasectomy didn't give you a higher voice
Only 41% of men knew that vasectomy and castration were different medical
procedures
Only 48% of men knew that vasectomy offers no protection against hiv/aids
So if you are going to ask the man in the street, be prepared for a lot of
ignorance.
> PS my pain symptoms are as small as I can remember this last week and I
> hope to fly again tomorrow (my birthday) for the first time this year.
This is good news, have a happy birthday!
--
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
www.vasectomy-faq.org
k...@odiff.if
>Thanks for suggesting I was careless or made a quick decision. I know
>from words only and most written under the stress of PVPS it is hard to know me very well.
>
>
I did not say you were careless.. What I said was from 2003 on when i
started searching, I've found all kinds of information about vas
complications on the net.. infact the the urologist mailed me a NIH
brochure what identified vas complications.. but the choice to proceed
was entirely mine (after deciding to cancel the op twice).. I donot
consider myself a victim of "slave mentality and herd instinct"..
anyways, I wish you all the best on your road to recovery..
Doug
First I did a Google search on Vasectomy and that brought up what I now know
to be sites for vasectomies. I found good info but it was 99% positive and
that sounded good to me because after all I was thinking about getting one.
Then I called my family Dr and asked him and he said if you are done having
kids it's a great idea. So I call a urologist and went in for the consult
and he to says it's a great idea he himself had one just a few years ago. He
give me a bunch of pamphlets to read and says read this over and let me know
if you have any questions. I read every word of every paper and it sounds
all so simple almost to simple. I call the Dr and ask a few questions about
how much time I need off from work, is it really safe to mess with a mans
balls, is there any chance that I will have pain. Answers, you need a few
days off, yes it's safe as I told you I had one, In 20 years I have never
had a problem doing vasectomies. So I figure this is a easy and safe nothing
can go wrong and I have it done. That was 7 months ago and I still have pain
everyday. What I should have also done was a Google search for vasectomy
problems then I would have seen the bad side. But I guess I was just sold on
the idea that I did not think of it after all I did ask the Dr and read all
that he gave me. I am 100% sure that had I seen even a small portion of the
possible problems I would have decided not to do it. Even my wife after
seeing the possible problems and knowing my luck said wow we made a bad
choice if I had known this was even remotely possible I would have not let
you do it. But I made the decision so only I am to blame and I will have to
pay the price to fix my mistake if that is even possible. Should I have been
better informed from the Dr's, yes I sure should have but in general I knew
that with any surgery there was a chance of problems I just did not know
exactly what problems. I figured the standard things like infection and
bleeding not that my balls would hurt 24/7 for months or years.
Also I agree with Luan some (note I did say some not all) men are not honest
that they have pain after a vas. I know several men all who had a vas and
all swore up and down that they were back to normal in no more than a week
and had no problems or pain at all. Now months later me being open and
honest about my pain to them, they are coming clean more and more. A few
guys now admit that they have pain after sex for a few hours sometimes, that
sometimes they have aches and pain that go away after maybe a few hours or
days. Over all they did not give me 100% the correct honest info that I
asked for before I had my vas. Now overall none of the men have what I would
call PVP that is a problem after all a little pain here and there once in a
while is not a big deal and I am sure it does not cause them much problems
at all. In fact I would say that it does not even seem troublesome to them
at all. But I sure do wish that I knew that they had some problems even if
they were small or not really a problem. If any one of them said anything
about pain or problems I most likely would have did a search on problems and
found the info that I needed. But I don't blame them after all they are men
like me and who wants anyone to know that you have any problems in a manhood
dept.
But my wife and I have enjoyed the freedom of having sex anytime without
worrying about getting pregnant. I admit that part is great and I am glad
that my wife did not have to get surgery or take the pill that can cause her
problems. I just wish I was pain free or even close and had some pain free
days at the least. The irony is we may have to pay to get it reversed, that
may not leave me pain free, and she will have to have her tubes tied or go
on the pill anyway.
I wish that I had done my homework more thoroughly. I guess in a way I am
staying after school as my punishment (I have PVP).
Sorry for the ranting on it just came our what can I say,
Doug
<k...@odiff.if> wrote in message news:1125040300.142473@sj-nntpcache-5...
Luan
A final bit of information before I depart for a few weeks or months.
Yesterday (my birthday) I got the gift I really hoped I would not receive.
PVPS came back after 9 days of very welcome relief. Walking again is
difficult and bending or turning is scary. I did not cancel my flying
plans even though I was not comfortable either mentally or physically.
One rather interesting bit of contrast struck me as I finished being
checked out in a single seat aircraft. I made 5 takeoffs and landings
with the instructor observing on the ground and connected to me by radio.
The weather was not ideal - 9 mph wind with some gusts and thermals. What
struck me was this: I asked questions about the aircraft and got clear
honest answers, I checked the weather forecast and got accurate
information. After my first attempt (not too pretty but no damage) we
talked about what happened, they told me what went wrong. The second
landing was beautiful but not technically correct. The third was more
correct but not quite so pretty. The fifth was perfect inspite of a rough
running engine which will be adjusted before any more flights. Everyone
gave me good and complete information. The written material was accurate
and the weather people told the truth. With my life on the line it is
nice to be with honest careing people who really don't want to see me
crash and burn. I made my decision to fly even though I had some negative
factors to deal with. What made this possible was the support I had and
the trust I was able to depend on. Contrast this with vasectomy. The
doctors and other promoters give incomplete information, I ask questions
and get stupid answers or inaccurate explainations. The Doctors play DUMB
when something goes wrong. The doctor who does the surgery knows nothing
about "repairing" any damage and almost always says it is very "RARE" that
anything goes wrong. However, other doctors tell me that 3% to 9% will end
like me - 5 to 10% will have long term pain - 4 to 7% will have PVPS - one
doc near my home told me 1 to 2 % will need to have an epididymis removed
and 50% of those will lose a testicle, he told me if I want to be free of
this pain there is no other way except to remove my right epididymis. So
you decide - what "RARE" means. I have been doing my private
investigation among friends and relatives and local people here and it
bears out the "unbelievable" numbers above! Why do medical people
conduct their business like this? Why do men submit to this type of
abuse? To those of you who are brave enough to read this web page and
"horror stories" and still decide to have vasectomy - Please - if you have
a bad outcome of some kind REPORT IT completely, unlike the vast majority
of unlucky men who have gone before you. I respect you if you wish to
risk your health in this big experiment and make a positive contribution
to the facts we all need to know. Just remember: In my experience the
difference between a flight instructor and a vasectomy doctor is about the
same as the difference between my Mother and a Used Car Salesman.
Unbelievable that medical people conduct business like this. Why? why?
I will not visit this site for a long time as I know all I need to know
and must search for a REAL doctor to repair my body. I am very thankful
for all who gave me information - good and bad - this site led me to the
one doctor who I believe can help me. I may try to find one closer to my
home for the next step. When I have some meaningful information to report
on my recovery I will post it here. Bye for the present and if anyone
wants to talk to me just call!! My number is in a past post. LUAN