Recent Update and Questions from Adam
adam
about options. After relating my history he did an exam and pretty
much concurred on the remaining options for getting pain-free. I can
continue as-is and hope that the pain eventually subsides <or> go for
a reversal and hope that I'm in the 60-80% that get relief. I had
ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
vas will have some type of pain. He also said he's seen a correlation
between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
during the vas and potential long term complications.
I'm now working on lowering the cost of reversal through insurance but
will find a way to cover it either way. Life is just too short. In the
meantime he suggested testosterone therapy to see if I get relief and
to rule out nerve damage before going under the knife. Has anyone else
tried testosterone and if so how did it work out? I'm especially
concerned about side effects, even short term (weight loss, mood
swings, etc). He did a blood test for PSA, etc and gave me a
prescription for the patch (Androgel 5mg) but I want to do some more
research before going ahead.
-Adam
David - I'll send you an update for your website shortly.
trifold
ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:
> I had
> ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
> basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
> can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
So reopening the vas was one of the options he offered for dealing
with the pain? I've heard this is often the first option offered.
Can you say why you decided not to try this instead of reversal?
>
> He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
> vas will have some type of pain.
Did he mean chronic pain lasting longer than 6 months? I think 3-5%
is high for chronic pvp.
>He also said he's seen a correlation
> between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
> during the vas and potential long term complications.
That makes sense.
>
> I'm now working on lowering the cost of reversal through insurance but
> will find a way to cover it either way.
It really does seem insurance companies should distinguish between
reversal to deal with pvp and reversal due simply to a change of mind.
Would your insurance company pay for reopening the vas? Or for the T
therapy?
>Life is just too short. In the
> meantime he suggested testosterone therapy to see if I get relief and
> to rule out nerve damage before going under the knife. Has anyone else
> tried testosterone and if so how did it work out? I'm especially
> concerned about side effects, even short term (weight loss, mood
> swings, etc). He did a blood test for PSA, etc and gave me a
> prescription for the patch (Androgel 5mg) but I want to do some more
> research before going ahead.
I think Steve (of Steve and Lisa) had T therapy for awhile. And we've
heard of others having it. The body does respond to extra T by
suppressing sperm production, so using it could be a way of confirming
that the pain you are having is due to sperm backpressure. But I think
it would be risky as a longterm solution. I haven't heard of many
short term effects (except it might make you even hornier!), but I
know there is lots of concern about longterm consequences, esp. re:
prostate cancer, which is why the doctor took your psa reading.
Steve and Lisa
ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:<d1eb3fbc.04082...@posting.google.com>...
> I just hit the 6 month mark post-vas and went to see a PVP specialist
> about options.
A urologist who specializes in PVP?! I'm only aware of a couple of
doctors who might refer to themselves as such in the US. Where do you
live and who are you seeing? The masses want to know!!
> After relating my history he did an exam and pretty
> much concurred on the remaining options for getting pain-free. I can
> continue as-is and hope that the pain eventually subsides <or> go for
> a reversal and hope that I'm in the 60-80% that get relief. I had
> ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
> basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
> can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
>
Good for you! The success rates of surgeries that involve removing
other parts aren't that good, and once the 'bits' are removed, if you
still have pvp, your options become very limited.....
> He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
> vas will have some type of pain. He also said he's seen a correlation
> between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
> during the vas and potential long term complications.
Wow. A urologist admitting the reality of PVP! Very rare! I'm
curious about his observation on the correlation of
complexity/difficulties in the original vas and the incidence of pvp.
Do you know if this is his personal observation from his practice (so
not necessarily a statistical correlation) or a statistical measure
from a study he's seen that we don't know about? My personal
experience was that the original vas seemed pretty routine. Very
little pain, no complications, etc.
>
> I'm now working on lowering the cost of reversal through insurance but
> will find a way to cover it either way.
Be aggressive on this. The insurance company I had at the time
explicitly excluded vasectomy reversals, but agreed to cover the
surgery at 100% once I submitted a benefit appeal with information
from my primary care physician, urologist and psycho-therapist. Read
your certificate of insurance or evidence of coverage (whatever your
insurance company calls it - it varies by company) carefully. You
have 'rights of appeal' in almost every coverage (mandated by state /
fed legislation?). Be aware of your rights, the appeals process, and
the timeframes. Don't take the first 'no' as being the final word -
but be careful of the timeframes. If you're told 'no' and don't
respond appropriately within certain timeframes, you lose the right to
continue the appeal... I've heard several stories over the last few
years where insurance companies have approved exceptions to this
exclusion because of PVP. Sorry - my past life in the insurance
industry is showing!!!
> Life is just too short. In the meantime he suggested testosterone therapy to
> see if I get relief and to rule out nerve damage before going under the
> knife. Has anyone else tried testosterone and if so how did it work out? I'm
> especially concerned about side effects, even short term (weight loss, mood
> swings, etc).
I was on testosterone therapy for about 6 months. I've lost the
information on what I was given/how much, etc. I went to the doctor's
office where a nurse gave me an injection once per week for a month,
then every 2 weeks. Side effects included:
* a boost in energy, and improved outlook on life. I had become
pretty depressed, wasn't sleeping, etc. There's a reason therapeutic
testerone therapy is popular in the 'senior' set! I had no mood
swings, weight loss, etc. Just a generally improved outlook on life,
better sleep, and improved energy levels.
* gradually over the first month, a decreased level of the intensity
and frequency of pain. As you know, this therapy as a treatment for
PVP works by shutting down the testosterone production in the
testicles. They stop producing sperm, the factors causing the PVP go
away (hopefully - if they aren't related to nerve damage), and life
becomes good again! The absence of congestive epididymitis I had
experienced was especially noted and appreciated! By the middle of
the second month all pvp was gone.
* the only 'negative' was that, while I was on the testosterone
therapy, the testicles did shrink. An expected outcome if you think
about it. The boys are no longer producing sperm, the epididymis is
no longer congested, etc. This was really more of an ego thing than
anything, I guess. When I mentioned this to my doctor, who originally
had recommeded that I stay on testosterone therapy for 18 months
before considering surgical options, he assured me that it was only
temporary and they would be back to normal after going off the
testosterone. He was correct.
I am thrilled that your doctor is aware of testosterone therapy as a
potential treatment of pvp. The average urologist doesn't have a clue
about it. The first person who suggested it to me was in an email
communication with Dr. Lou Zaninovich, who practices in Australia
(www.medicine4men.com). He recommended testerone therapy early in my
pvp 'experience,' but it took me almost 2 years to find a doctor who
knew anything about it.
I decided to proceed with the reversal after 6 months on the therapy
because of several reasons:
* the testosterone therapy had worked - indicating that my pain was
almost certainly the result of the vasectomy and was also not nerve
damage related;
* my doctor's practice had decided to go off my HMO insurance panel.
I could only continue to use him for a few months with insurance
coverage. It took 2 years to find him! I wasn't going to lose the
opportunity to have him do this very expensive surgery as a covered
benefit. He specializes in infertility treatment, and has had
significant success doing reversals - and was empathetic to me as a
PVP patient. I wasn't going to trust anyone else to do the surgery.
* even though the pain was gone, things still weren't the same. I had
a definite decrease in pleasure at ejaculation as a result of the
vasectomy. I know others report no change in sensation, but it was
very different for me... I am pleased to report that things were back
to normal after the reversal!
> He did a blood test for PSA, etc and gave me a
> prescription for the patch (Androgel 5mg) but I want to do some more
> research before going ahead.
>
> -Adam
>
> David - I'll send you an update for your website shortly.
Best wishes! Keep us informed!
Steve
adam
> Hey Adam,
>
> ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:
> > I had
> > ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
> > basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
> > can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
>
> So reopening the vas was one of the options he offered for dealing
> with the pain? I've heard this is often the first option offered.
> Can you say why you decided not to try this instead of reversal?
> >
A few reasons, mostly because the next operation will be my third
(cyst removal 18 years ago and vas were the first two) and as much as
I'm trying to enjoy the sterility and don't want more kids I'm OK with
managing birth control if that's where it all winds up. I'd also say a
big reason is that aside from pain I just haven't felt "right" down
there since the vas (orgasm, volume, etc) and think that putting it
all back together gives me the best chance of returning to normalcy.
Finally, converting to open-ended and removing more vas may make it
harder to reconstruct things if it doesn't work as planned and I don't
want to take that chance.
> > He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
> > vas will have some type of pain.
>
> Did he mean chronic pain lasting longer than 6 months? I think 3-5%
> is high for chronic pvp.
>
I believe he meant any type of chronic pain, even the minor kind. I'm
sure I would know someone else personally who had it as bad as me if
it was that prevalent. Empirically I would take a wild guess that my
level of pain would be closer to .01% (1 in 10,000) or even rarer
considering how many posts there are on the message boards compared to
the millions and millions of people who have had a vas done. The fact
that there are plenty of people in worse shape than me is what really
blows my mind.
> >He also said he's seen a correlation
> > between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
> > during the vas and potential long term complications.
>
> That makes sense.
> >
> > I'm now working on lowering the cost of reversal through insurance but
> > will find a way to cover it either way.
>
> It really does seem insurance companies should distinguish between
> reversal to deal with pvp and reversal due simply to a change of mind.
> Would your insurance company pay for reopening the vas? Or for the T
> therapy?
>
T therapy yes, if I go for it (still undecided), but not sure what's
covered for a reversal or conversion to open end. I should know
shortly though.
> >Life is just too short. In the
> > meantime he suggested testosterone therapy to see if I get relief and
> > to rule out nerve damage before going under the knife. Has anyone else
> > tried testosterone and if so how did it work out? I'm especially
> > concerned about side effects, even short term (weight loss, mood
> > swings, etc). He did a blood test for PSA, etc and gave me a
> > prescription for the patch (Androgel 5mg) but I want to do some more
> > research before going ahead.
>
> I think Steve (of Steve and Lisa) had T therapy for awhile. And we've
> heard of others having it. The body does respond to extra T by
> suppressing sperm production, so using it could be a way of confirming
> that the pain you are having is due to sperm backpressure. But I think
> it would be risky as a longterm solution. I haven't heard of many
> short term effects (except it might make you even hornier!), but I
> know there is lots of concern about longterm consequences, esp. re:
> prostate cancer, which is why the doctor took your psa reading.
>
I am very concerned about prostate issues even when taken short term.
Both my dad and his brother have major issues in that department so
I'm probably predisposed anyway. As a side note they both had
vasectomies years ago with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Still
doing research before going ahead with the T. Thanks for the concern,
I'll post more as things progress.
>
> trifold
> www.vasectomy-information.com
adam
>
> ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:
> > I had
> > ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
> > basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
> > can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
>
> So reopening the vas was one of the options he offered for dealing
> with the pain? I've heard this is often the first option offered.
> Can you say why you decided not to try this instead of reversal?
> >
A few reasons, mostly because the next operation will be my third
(cyst removal 18 years ago and vas were the first two) and as much as
I'm trying to enjoy the sterility and don't want more kids I'm OK with
managing birth control if that's where it all winds up. I'd also say a
big reason is that aside from pain I just haven't felt "right" down
there since the vas (orgasm, volume, etc) and think that putting it
all back together gives me the best chance of returning to normalcy.
Finally, converting to open-ended and removing more vas may make it
harder to reconstruct things if it doesn't work as planned and I don't
want to take that chance.
> > He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
> > vas will have some type of pain.
>
> Did he mean chronic pain lasting longer than 6 months? I think 3-5%
> is high for chronic pvp.
>
I believe he meant any type of chronic pain, even the minor kind. I'm
sure I would know someone else personally who had it as bad as me if
it was that prevalent. Empirically I would take a wild guess that my
level of pain would be closer to .01% (1 in 10,000) or even rarer
considering how many posts there are on the message boards compared to
the millions and millions of people who have had a vas done. The fact
that there are plenty of people in worse shape than me is what really
blows my mind.
> >He also said he's seen a correlation
> > between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
> > during the vas and potential long term complications.
>
> That makes sense.
> >
> > I'm now working on lowering the cost of reversal through insurance but
> > will find a way to cover it either way.
>
> It really does seem insurance companies should distinguish between
> reversal to deal with pvp and reversal due simply to a change of mind.
> Would your insurance company pay for reopening the vas? Or for the T
> therapy?
>
T therapy yes, if I go for it (still undecided), but not sure what's
covered for a reversal or conversion to open end. I should know
shortly though.
> >Life is just too short. In the
> > meantime he suggested testosterone therapy to see if I get relief and
> > to rule out nerve damage before going under the knife. Has anyone else
> > tried testosterone and if so how did it work out? I'm especially
> > concerned about side effects, even short term (weight loss, mood
> > swings, etc). He did a blood test for PSA, etc and gave me a
> > prescription for the patch (Androgel 5mg) but I want to do some more
> > research before going ahead.
>
> I think Steve (of Steve and Lisa) had T therapy for awhile. And we've
> heard of others having it. The body does respond to extra T by
> suppressing sperm production, so using it could be a way of confirming
> that the pain you are having is due to sperm backpressure. But I think
> it would be risky as a longterm solution. I haven't heard of many
> short term effects (except it might make you even hornier!), but I
> know there is lots of concern about longterm consequences, esp. re:
> prostate cancer, which is why the doctor took your psa reading.
>
I am very concerned about prostate issues even when taken short term.
adam
> > I just hit the 6 month mark post-vas and went to see a PVP specialist
> > about options.
>
> A urologist who specializes in PVP?! I'm only aware of a couple of
> doctors who might refer to themselves as such in the US. Where do you
> live and who are you seeing? The masses want to know!!
I believe it's the same Doc who you went to - Michael Witt in Atlanta.
I've heard from a few people he does a lot of work with PVP sufferers
even though his main specialty is fertility. I live in Tampa (8 hours
drive) but couldn't find anyone locally. He was the first medical
professional I spoke to who seemed to understand what I'm going
through. The original Uro, while both available and helpful was not as
knowledgable on PVP.
>
> > After relating my history he did an exam and pretty
> > much concurred on the remaining options for getting pain-free. I can
> > continue as-is and hope that the pain eventually subsides <or> go for
> > a reversal and hope that I'm in the 60-80% that get relief. I had
> > ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
> > basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
> > can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
> >
>
> Good for you! The success rates of surgeries that involve removing
> other parts aren't that good, and once the 'bits' are removed, if you
> still have pvp, your options become very limited.....
I had pretty much decided on the "non-removal" course early on (this
board and David's site get the credit for that decision) since the
success rate seems quite low.
>
> > He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
> > vas will have some type of pain. He also said he's seen a correlation
> > between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
> > during the vas and potential long term complications.
>
> Wow. A urologist admitting the reality of PVP! Very rare! I'm
> curious about his observation on the correlation of
> complexity/difficulties in the original vas and the incidence of pvp.
> Do you know if this is his personal observation from his practice (so
> not necessarily a statistical correlation) or a statistical measure
> from a study he's seen that we don't know about? My personal
> experience was that the original vas seemed pretty routine. Very
> little pain, no complications, etc.
>
Can't give you much more detail except to assume it's empirical given
the number of patients he's personally seen. I can see how trauma will
affect the initial healing time but not really sure what the
correlation is with congestion later on. I seem to be dealing with
both issues (disctincly different types of pain leads me to this
conclusion) plus it's further complicated by the fact I've had
problems with cysts in the past.
> >
> > I'm now working on lowering the cost of reversal through insurance but
> > will find a way to cover it either way.
>
> Be aggressive on this. The insurance company I had at the time
> explicitly excluded vasectomy reversals, but agreed to cover the
> surgery at 100% once I submitted a benefit appeal with information
> from my primary care physician, urologist and psycho-therapist. Read
> your certificate of insurance or evidence of coverage (whatever your
> insurance company calls it - it varies by company) carefully. You
> have 'rights of appeal' in almost every coverage (mandated by state /
> fed legislation?). Be aware of your rights, the appeals process, and
> the timeframes. Don't take the first 'no' as being the final word -
> but be careful of the timeframes. If you're told 'no' and don't
> respond appropriately within certain timeframes, you lose the right to
> continue the appeal... I've heard several stories over the last few
> years where insurance companies have approved exceptions to this
> exclusion because of PVP. Sorry - my past life in the insurance
> industry is showing!!!
>
I'm just starting down this path and appreciate the advice. I've got
United Healthcare and didn't see anything in the policy that
explicitly excludes reversals. My best guess is they'll cover 80% of
it and consider it reconstructive surgery but I'm gearing up for
battle mode anyway. Current timeframe would be to have the op done in
October.
> > Life is just too short. In the meantime he suggested testosterone therapy to
> > see if I get relief and to rule out nerve damage before going under the
> > knife. Has anyone else tried testosterone and if so how did it work out? I'm
> > especially concerned about side effects, even short term (weight loss, mood
> > swings, etc).
>
> I was on testosterone therapy for about 6 months. I've lost the
> information on what I was given/how much, etc. I went to the doctor's
> office where a nurse gave me an injection once per week for a month,
> then every 2 weeks. Side effects included:
>
> * a boost in energy, and improved outlook on life. I had become
> pretty depressed, wasn't sleeping, etc. There's a reason therapeutic
> testerone therapy is popular in the 'senior' set! I had no mood
> swings, weight loss, etc. Just a generally improved outlook on life,
> better sleep, and improved energy levels.
> * gradually over the first month, a decreased level of the intensity
> and frequency of pain. As you know, this therapy as a treatment for
> PVP works by shutting down the testosterone production in the
> testicles. They stop producing sperm, the factors causing the PVP go
> away (hopefully - if they aren't related to nerve damage), and life
> becomes good again! The absence of congestive epididymitis I had
> experienced was especially noted and appreciated! By the middle of
> the second month all pvp was gone.
Would you say that your pain went away 100% during that time period?
If so did anything else still feel "different" or "wrong? or was it
impossible to tell pre-vas from post-vas at that point? My biggest
challenge is figuring out how much relief I'll get from a reversal. I
suspect it will be significant but not 100% due to the trauma of the
original vas plus pain I already had beforehand on one side.
Did your sex drive change in any way (positive or negative)? If so did
it go back to normal, and if so how long did it take after you stopped
taking the T?
> * the only 'negative' was that, while I was on the testosterone
> therapy, the testicles did shrink. An expected outcome if you think
> about it. The boys are no longer producing sperm, the epididymis is
> no longer congested, etc. This was really more of an ego thing than
> anything, I guess. When I mentioned this to my doctor, who originally
> had recommeded that I stay on testosterone therapy for 18 months
> before considering surgical options, he assured me that it was only
> temporary and they would be back to normal after going off the
> testosterone. He was correct.
>
That make a lot of sense. One of the things I have ALL the time is a
feeling of "fullness" on both sides, and it's not just my imagination.
They actually feel heavier (both my wife and I agree) when held. It's
an extremely annoying sensation and the main reason I can't sleep on
my stomach.
> I am thrilled that your doctor is aware of testosterone therapy as a
> potential treatment of pvp. The average urologist doesn't have a clue
> about it. The first person who suggested it to me was in an email
> communication with Dr. Lou Zaninovich, who practices in Australia
> (www.medicine4men.com). He recommended testerone therapy early in my
> pvp 'experience,' but it took me almost 2 years to find a doctor who
> knew anything about it.
>
> I decided to proceed with the reversal after 6 months on the therapy
> because of several reasons:
>
> * the testosterone therapy had worked - indicating that my pain was
> almost certainly the result of the vasectomy and was also not nerve
> damage related;
> * my doctor's practice had decided to go off my HMO insurance panel.
> I could only continue to use him for a few months with insurance
> coverage. It took 2 years to find him! I wasn't going to lose the
> opportunity to have him do this very expensive surgery as a covered
> benefit. He specializes in infertility treatment, and has had
> significant success doing reversals - and was empathetic to me as a
> PVP patient. I wasn't going to trust anyone else to do the surgery.
> * even though the pain was gone, things still weren't the same. I had
> a definite decrease in pleasure at ejaculation as a result of the
> vasectomy. I know others report no change in sensation, but it was
> very different for me... I am pleased to report that things were back
> to normal after the reversal!
>
Thanks for the feedback!!!!!!
-Adam
recentlyfixed
few comments regarding your two latest posts in this thread.
ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:<d1eb3fbc.04083...@posting.google.com>...
> trif...@netscape.net (trifold) wrote in message news:<f6289b53.04082...@posting.google.com>...
> > Hey Adam,
> >
> > ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:
> > > I had
> > > ruled out converting to an open-ended vas for a number of reasons and
> > > basically feel it's worth being fertile again if there's a chance I
> > > can lead a normal life. We BOTH ruled out removing anything else.
> >
> > So reopening the vas was one of the options he offered for dealing
> > with the pain? I've heard this is often the first option offered.
> > Can you say why you decided not to try this instead of reversal?
> > >
>
> A few reasons, mostly because the next operation will be my third
> (cyst removal 18 years ago and vas were the first two) and as much as
> I'm trying to enjoy the sterility and don't want more kids I'm OK with
> managing birth control if that's where it all winds up. I'd also say a
> big reason is that aside from pain I just haven't felt "right" down
> there since the vas (orgasm, volume, etc) and think that putting it
> all back together gives me the best chance of returning to normalcy.
> Finally, converting to open-ended and removing more vas may make it
> harder to reconstruct things if it doesn't work as planned and I don't
> want to take that chance.
My personal experience now 14 months after my vas appears to have been
much the same as yours, and I could make the same statement you have
"aside from pain I just haven't felt "right" down there since the vas
(orgasm, volume, etc)". I seem to have fairly constant low grade pain
from congestive epiditimitis that I was diagnosed with earlier this
year, and on occasion it's worse than other times. Luckily (I guess)
I have a fairly high pain tolerance, so I'm not interested in being
put under again for another surgery for a reversal that may only have
a 60-80% chance of working.
>
> > > He was the first doctor I talked to who admitted 3-5% of men who get a
> > > vas will have some type of pain.
> >
> > Did he mean chronic pain lasting longer than 6 months? I think 3-5%
> > is high for chronic pvp.
> >
>
> I believe he meant any type of chronic pain, even the minor kind. I'm
> sure I would know someone else personally who had it as bad as me if
> it was that prevalent. Empirically I would take a wild guess that my
> level of pain would be closer to .01% (1 in 10,000) or even rarer
> considering how many posts there are on the message boards compared to
> the millions and millions of people who have had a vas done. The fact
> that there are plenty of people in worse shape than me is what really
> blows my mind.
As the regulars point out here, the incidence of long term pain (pvp)
is probably extremely low, and likely not as common as you might
believe by reading through posts on various threads here. However,
there are definitely some "lucky" ones like you and I who draw the
short straw and suffer for it.
I'm not interested in being in the 20-40% of reversals that do not
work out.
>
> > >He also said he's seen a correlation
> > > between any complexity or difficulties the original Doc ran into
> > > during the vas and potential long term complications.
> >
> > That makes sense.
> > >
I'll always wonder what happened during my procedure, and if the
Doctor had more problems on one side, perhaps pulling a lot, that made
things even worse.
From other post (message 6)you wrote:
That make a lot of sense. One of the things I have ALL the time is a
feeling of "fullness" on both sides, and it's not just my imagination.
They actually feel heavier (both my wife and I agree) when held. It's
an extremely annoying sensation and the main reason I can't sleep on
my stomach.
I have the same sleeping issue somewhat, but not to the point of
cutting a hole in the mattress. I'm also a stomach sleeper, and have
to jostle around and wince every night to find a comfortable position
to go to sleep.
Good luck to you with your information gathering, and hope the
reversal goes well for you!
recentlyfixed (not so recent anymore!)
Steve and Lisa
ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:<d1eb3fbc.04083...@posting.google.com>...
> > I was on testosterone therapy for about 6 months. I've lost the
> > information on what I was given/how much, etc. I went to the doctor's
> > office where a nurse gave me an injection once per week for a month,
> > then every 2 weeks. Side effects included:
> >
> > * a boost in energy, and improved outlook on life. I had become
> > pretty depressed, wasn't sleeping, etc. There's a reason therapeutic
> > testerone therapy is popular in the 'senior' set! I had no mood
> > swings, weight loss, etc. Just a generally improved outlook on life,
> > better sleep, and improved energy levels.
> > * gradually over the first month, a decreased level of the intensity
> > and frequency of pain. As you know, this therapy as a treatment for
> > PVP works by shutting down the testosterone production in the
> > testicles. They stop producing sperm, the factors causing the PVP go
> > away (hopefully - if they aren't related to nerve damage), and life
> > becomes good again! The absence of congestive epididymitis I had
> > experienced was especially noted and appreciated! By the middle of
> > the second month all pvp was gone.
>
> Would you say that your pain went away 100% during that time period?
Honestly, don't remember - hard to believe that it's been 2.5 years
now. I do remember that the pain gradually went away over the month
or so after starting the t-therapy. I was so relieved that if I did
have any residual pain I don't remember it.
> If so did anything else still feel "different" or "wrong?
The biggest difference is related to the testicles shutting down
production. While sex was OK, the testicles felt completely
disconnected from the entire experience.... Not a bad thing at the
time given that my post vas sexual experiences until that point
generally included testicualar pain during or after sex.
or was it
> impossible to tell pre-vas from post-vas at that point?
Definitely a change. Although certainly not back to normal - I didn't
get there until after a reversal. BUT - the pain was gone!
My biggest
> challenge is figuring out how much relief I'll get from a reversal.
That's a tough one. I sure can't make the call for you - but I got
99+% relief from the reversal.... Sex during the first month after a
reversal was unbelieveable - especially the first time! Not congested
and pain free for the first time in 2.5 years - and things were
evidently still very sensitive from the surgery - not in a painful way
but in a way that I really felt things as they happened!
>
> Did your sex drive change in any way (positive or negative)?
I don't recall that the sex drive changed in any way. My sex drive
never changed after the vas, during the time I was on T-therapy, or
after the reversal. Testicular discomfort/pain played a role in how
often I felt like having sex - a different issue from the actual
desire / physical drive to have sex....
Regards,
Steve
adam
> never changed after the vas, during the time I was on T-therapy, or
> after the reversal. Testicular discomfort/pain played a role in how
> often I felt like having sex - a different issue from the actual
> desire / physical drive to have sex....
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
Steve,
Thanks much for the empirical info, it's amazing how little there is
out there on PVP and T therapy. I'll keep everyone posted as things
progress over the next few weeks.
-Adam
adam
> never changed after the vas, during the time I was on T-therapy, or
> after the reversal. Testicular discomfort/pain played a role in how
> often I felt like having sex - a different issue from the actual
> desire / physical drive to have sex....
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
Steve,
adam
> never changed after the vas, during the time I was on T-therapy, or
> after the reversal. Testicular discomfort/pain played a role in how
> often I felt like having sex - a different issue from the actual
> desire / physical drive to have sex....
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
After 2 weeks on Testosterone therapy I've decided to stop because of
some side effects. The really good news though is that for the last
few days I've seen a huge improvement in ache and discomfort, and can
honestly say yesterday was the first day I didn't think about pain at
all the last 6 months! There is also some slight but noticable (good)
shrinking that has taken place which I'm guessing is taking pressure
off the parts that were hurting the most. The tenderness when touched
is still there but significantly reduced.
The reason I'm stopping is because for the past week I've become
increasingly anxious, especially at the office. I've spent the past 10
years working stressful jobs with no problem but even minor things
(like calling a satisfied client) will now trigger intense feelings of
anxiety and dread. I didn't sleep at all last night and it took all my
willpower to make it into the office today. With some big
presentations coming up over the next few weeks I just can't take a
chance on being in this mode any longer.
Other, more minor side effects include acne and aggressiveness (like
road rage), and I also noticed a bizarre effect it's had on my wife.
Apparently some of the T can either rub off or be transferred via body
fluids because she's been so horny the past week it's amazing. This is
obviously a good side effect from my perspective (nearly pain free sex
every night the past few days!!!!) but I'm sure it's not good long
term and is another reason I believe it's prudent to stop the T. This
is of course all speculation but the T package insert did say partners
can be affected and I'm assuming this is what they meant.
So, I'll see how things progress over the next couple of weeks. If the
pain comes back slowly I feel confident that a reversal is the right
way to go, even though I didn't make it to the full 4-8 weeks.
One other important point to mention: I spoke to the original uro a
few weeks back who did the vas and told him about the T therapy. He
hadn't heard about it before but was intrigued and said he would be
interested to see how my open-ended vasectomy would be affected.
What?!?!?!?! Open ended?!?!?! I had assumed all along he did the
standard NSV closed procedure (I know - I really should have asked
before and/or afterwards and he should have made it clear at some
point when I was having pain) and was totally blown away by this info.
Thank goodness I didn't go to another doctor to get an open ended
conversion, imagine his surprise and my disappointment when we found
them already open! I went back through my notes and some things are
making more sense now. It probably explains why I'm not suffering the
intense, stabbing epididymal pains that many with a closed-ended vas
have described. Why my body can't get the absorption under control is
still a mystery. I know the immunological response isn't supposed to
kick in right away but maybe I had already developed that response
from the original op for cyst removal 15 years ago?
With all that said I would still recommend T therapy as a diagnostic
tool for people who have tried everything else, just beware of
possible side effects.
-Adam
David, as always feel free to add to the site.
Steve and Lisa
Let us know how things progress....
Steve
ad...@jbcc.com (adam) wrote in message news:<d1eb3fbc.04092...@posting.google.com>...
anita
Adam,
Okay I don't understand the rationale of how T therapy would be an
indicator of a reversal relieving pain, maybe I didn't read the
earlier messages but could you explain?
And if a vas doesn't effect T levels at all how would the T therapy
help at all. Just curious and dumb.
Anita
adam
>
> Adam,
>
> Okay I don't understand the rationale of how T therapy would be an
> indicator of a reversal relieving pain, maybe I didn't read the
> earlier messages but could you explain?
>
> And if a vas doesn't effect T levels at all how would the T therapy
> help at all. Just curious and dumb.
>
>
>
> Anita
Anita, I think those are both good questions. From what I understand T
Therapy is typically prescribed to men who's natural levels have
fallen too low for one reason or another. Apparently someone figured
out that when given to people who have normal levels to start with,
the increased testosterone actually slows (shuts?) down sperm
production. If someone's PVP is caused by a reaction to, or pressure
from sperm that has nowhere else to go after a vasectomy, then it
follows that reducing the amount produced should reduce the the body's
reaction to it. By going on T therapy even a short time I saw a
dramatic reduction in both soreness and ache. At this point I think
that putting the plumbing back via reversal has a good chance of
giving me the same kind of relief, and that this all but rules out
nerve damage as the root cause. If the main problem is caused by
pressure, that will be reduced through ejaculation. Same thing if my
body is reacting to the sperm itself.
Here's an article that you might find interesting, the last paragraph
mentioning the effects of T itself.
http://www.dailyemerald.com/archive/v99/1/971208/pill.html
I think that if they ever perfect the male pill it will be of great
use in diagnosing and treating some forms of PVP.
To answer your second question, I don't believe the original vas had
any effect on T levels, but there's no way to know for sure.
-Adam
David
Ok - thanks. I've done it.
Cheers,
David
www.vasectomy-information.com
adam
Just a quick update: within a week of stopping the T therapy the ache
and soreness slowly came back and is now as bad as ever. I went ahead
and scheduled a reversal with Dr. Witt for November 12th which will be
close to 9 months from the original vas. I should have a final answer
on the insurance appeals by then, but even if they don't cover it I'm
going ahead with the op.
trifold
>
> Just a quick update: within a week of stopping the T therapy the ache
> and soreness slowly came back and is now as bad as ever. I went ahead
> and scheduled a reversal with Dr. Witt for November 12th which will be
> close to 9 months from the original vas. I should have a final answer
> on the insurance appeals by then, but even if they don't cover it I'm
> going ahead with the op.
I hope the reversal gives you everything you want. I'd be tempted to
go with reopening the vas tubes if I were you, if only to remain
sterile, but understand your concerns. I hope the insurance covers
the bill. Let us know about this part as well as how the operation
goes. Good luck!