Toe Wiggling

[franz...@my-deja.com]

My 16 years old daughter has a strange habit: She sais she has to wiggle
her toes all day long and it drives her crazy. I noticed this movement
first, when she was a little child, but I thought it only was a nervous
habit. My daughter told me she can stop the movement if she is
concentrated on her toes. But during the day when she has other things
in mind, her toes wiggle constantly. They alternate between flexion and
extension and go "up and down" for more then 100 times in one minute. In
the evening she has bad foot and leg cramps and an constant ache in her
legs. A friend told me this could be indicative for Tourette Syndrome.
Another friend sais, this can be hereditary, because she (and her
father) have this habit, too. Is anybody there who can tell me more
about it?

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[Ellen]

franz...@my-deja.com wrote:

> My 16 years old daughter has a strange habit: She sais she has to wiggle
> her toes all day long and it drives her crazy. I noticed this movement
> first, when she was a little child, but I thought it only was a nervous
> habit. My daughter told me she can stop the movement if she is
> concentrated on her toes. But during the day when she has other things
> in mind, her toes wiggle constantly. They alternate between flexion and
> extension and go "up and down" for more then 100 times in one minute. In
> the evening she has bad foot and leg cramps and an constant ache in her
> legs.

This could be a tic, but the presence of one tic doesn't mean a diagnosis
of Tourette's. The wiggling could also be a way of alleviating the pain and
discomfort of restless leg syndrome. Usually tics disappear when a person
is absorbed in something else, not when a person concentrates on the body
part that is ticcing. Concentration on the body part might help conscious
suppression of the tic momentarily, but there is a heightened feeling of a
kind of physical anxiety and need to start wiggling again that sometimes
expresses itself in an outburst of faster and stronger ticcing. If your
daughter can suppress the wiggling, does she feel uncomfortable because her
legs feel "funny", or does she have the feeling she must wiggle her toes
for the toes to "feel right"? Is she wiggling because shoes feel
restrictive to her? Does she have intrusive thoughts, such as that she must
keep wiggling them to prove that she still can? There could be many
explanations. Exploring why she needs to wiggle with a doctor should be
helpful, especially since you say the wiggling is bothering her.

> A friend told me this could be indicative for Tourette Syndrome.
> Another friend sais, this can be hereditary, because she (and her
> father) have this habit, too. Is anybody there who can tell me more
> about it?

Actually, both friends are right. Tourette syndrome seems to have a strong
genetic link, so it could TS and heredity. TS is generally defined to
include the presence of multiple physical, and at least one vocal tic. If
this is indeed a tic, and her only tic, it could be she has a simpler tic
disorder, and that is very common.

Ellen

[Tygerlil]

Toes curling or tightening can also be a common side effect of meds,
especially neuroleptics. Does she do it on one foot more than another?

Foot massage (even self-massage) can help, and soaking in warm water with
Epsom salts draws some of the tension (lactic acid) out of the muscles.
This is also good in baths for people who get tight muscles from ticcing.
Use a few cupfuls in a warm bath, not more because it really pulls stuff
out of the muscles, and can dehydrate you. Rinse off after bath, and drink
a glass of water.
A twenty minute soak makes a huge difference, and is very relaxing, I
guarantee it!

Also, leg stretches to loosen the calf muscles (in opposite direction) can
help.
Good luck!
--
Joanne

Ellen <el...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<37D95506...@worldnet.att.net>...

[Roger D. Freeman]

Good point about Restless Legs Syndrome for some of the evening
symptoms, BUT RLS doesn't usually occur during the day, and this
wiggling sounds like it occurs all day, is limited to the toes then,
and is not in response to the deep inner discomfort of RLS.

Roger

[franz...@my-deja.com]

In article <37D95506...@worldnet.att.net>,
el...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

> This could be a tic, but the presence of one tic doesn't mean a
diagnosis
> of Tourette's. The wiggling could also be a way of alleviating the
pain and
> discomfort of restless leg syndrome.

I am not sure about it, because the nonstop toe wiggling of my daughter
disappears after she fell in sleep. Restless legs syndrome is, as I got
to know, characterized by involuntary movements IN sleep.

> If your daughter can suppress the wiggling, does she feel
uncomfortable
because her legs feel "funny", or does she have the feeling she must
wiggle her
toes
> for the toes to "feel right"?

She sais she just "has to wiggle them" without any reason and it's not
easy for her to stop the wiggling for a long time. For instance if she's
talking or interacting with others, the "up and down"-movements of her
toes are heavy.

Tourette syndrome seems to have a
strong
> genetic link, so it could TS and heredity. TS is generally defined to
> include the presence of multiple physical, and at least one vocal tic.
If
> this is indeed a tic, and her only tic, it could be she has a simpler
tic
> disorder, and that is very common.

I think you maybe right, because my husband sometimes wiggles his toes,
too.

Franziska

[azmichelle]

I'm shocked to see that this original post goes back nearly 20 years ago. My toes do the same thing. Definitely not Tourette syndrome. Don't know why but they keep time to people talking, me typing, music, etc... It is pretty weird, but it doesn't seem to have done any damage as I'm 58 yrs old.
Michelle

On Friday, September 10, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, franz...@my-deja.com wrote:
> My 16 years old daughter has a strange habit: She sais she has to wiggle
> her toes all day long and it drives her crazy. I noticed this movement
> first, when she was a little child, but I thought it only was a nervous
> habit. My daughter told me she can stop the movement if she is
> concentrated on her toes. But during the day when she has other things
> in mind, her toes wiggle constantly. They alternate between flexion and
> extension and go "up and down" for more then 100 times in one minute. In
> the evening she has bad foot and leg cramps and an constant ache in her

> legs. A friend told me this could be indicative for Tourette Syndrome.

> Another friend sais, this can be hereditary, because she (and her
> father) have this habit, too. Is anybody there who can tell me more
> about it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[kendall...@gmail.com]

I have this same issue. My mom has always made comments about it. I do not know if I wiggle them in my sleep, but I noticed I wiggle them constantly when im awake and idling (not standing usually) and when I am going to bed.

I wonder if it's a symptom of anxiety brcause i have been diagnosed with panic disorder and generalized anxiety disorder.

[graces...@gmail.com]

I tend to lean on the idea that it's anxiety related. I move my toes constantly (but not at night). I feel a sense of relief and calmness when I do this. I've done this as long as I can remember. Maybe a form of self-soothing?

[tsre...@aol.com]

I’ve been dealing with this for over 10 years. I wiggle my toes so much that they ache horribly but the end of the night. I can stop do it if I think about it but as soon as I get sidetracked it starts up again. It’s so annoying. Everyone notices it. My toes do a wave too. Hard to explain. But I can’t stop moving them. It’s painful. I feel like a crazy person writing this. I also tighten my calf muscles and relax them continually all day. It’s horrible. I lay in bed every night with my legs and feet aching so so bad. Every single night. I also have restless leg syndrome. And nothing helps to get rid of it. Wish I could get some relief.

[mbutl...@gmail.com]

Your daughter has the EXACT same issues I have. My toes are going constantly and if I concentrate on them, I can stop but as soon as I stop focusing on keeping them still, they are going again. This happens whether I’m standing or sitting. It’s driving me crazy as well.

[mbutl...@gmail.com]

I didn’t realize this was from 20 yrs ago, I wonder how she is now??? I’m 58 as well and I believe this is a new thing for me.

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[jvelaz...@gmail.com]

Hi, Did you ever get a response to this?

[jvelaz...@gmail.com]

My 2 year old has done this since she was a baby. Her father does it too. And I can’t seem to find any answer as to why!

[eaut...@gmail.com]

Yo, what’s wrong with my toes?????

[trisara...@gmail.com]

I can’t believe this was posted 20 years ago! I am 29 and I’ve been doing this all my life, but it’s definitely not Tourette’s. With TS, there is an urge before a tic. People with Tourette’s usually have tics that present in order to relieve that urge to perform it. You see, as for me (and maybe your daughter as well) the toes move involuntarily and unknowingly. I can stop them from monkeying around if I focus hard on not wiggling them. As soon as I break that focus, they’re back to moving and twitching or whatever. As you can imagine, I don’t spend my days thinking about my toes very often, so they’re pretty much doing their thing all the time—without me even paying any attention to it! The only time I really notice is if my girlfriend (welcome to 2020, folks) says something about it. If I’m on my phone while I’m falling asleep, she’ll sometimes ask me to stop moving my feet and I can... for all of two minutes until I’m re-engulfed into my phone apps and she has to ask me again. It isn’t much of a bother to me. Luckily I don’t experience any mental “need” that can only be cured by a voluntary toe curl haha and thank God for that. I can’t imagine being tormented by that constantly.

Also thanking God and all my lucky stars that the movements are painless (for the time being), but I have read about some people who experience muscle soreness as a result. The only answer I’ve been able to find is Painless Moving Legs/Moving Toes Syndrome (PoLMS). The original syndrome is “painful,” but there is a percentage of PLMS sufferers who have no pain involved, hence the added lowercase “o” in the acronym. I know there hasn’t been much research done, but this is an awesome study done in 2020 by the neurology departments at Columbia University and the University of Missouri involving us painless toe-wigglers!

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2fad/f127f77b2019674bdedd9f9063a41e9d6903.pdf?_ga=2.77632084.1793906754.1595052549-1478258349.1595052549

I’m sure you already have answers and also likely forgot all about posting this back on your [probable] Windows ‘98 system while tying up the phone line with AOL hahaha, but if not—ask your daughter if she feels the urge to wiggle her toes or if she does it without realizing. That is definitely the huge factor that sets Tourette’s and Restless Legs Syndrome apart from Painless/Painful Moving Parts!

[trisara...@gmail.com]

[trisara...@gmail.com]