Tourette's and PDD ("mild autism")
MJKNPETER
My son has TS (age 7), but also seems to have some autistic traits
(mechanical sounding speech being a main one). On the other hand, he
really seeks friendships (altho he sometimes has difficulties with his
social skills), which is pretty unautistic-like. Let's just say he's an
enigma, wrapped in a mystery and shroud in a... however the saying goes.
I'm curious if anyone else deals with this situation as far as medication.
I'd love to hear what meds have worked. He currently is on Effexor,
Tennex and Orap, which has fairly good results, but we are considering
replacing the Orap with Risperidol and the Effexor with Zoloft. As my doc
put it, this is more of a PDD drug cocktail
I'm game to try it to see if we can improve him anymore. His main
problems are lack of focus (needs to be reminded at school to continue
working), poor handwriting (of course!), some impulsiveness.
All thoughts are appreciated!!!
Janice
BradHAWK
MJKNPETER wrote:
>
> My son has TS (age 7), but also seems to have some autistic traits
> (mechanical sounding speech being a main one). On the other hand, he
> really seeks friendships (altho he sometimes has difficulties with his
> social skills), which is pretty unautistic-like. Let's just say he's an
> enigma, wrapped in a mystery and shroud in a... however the saying goes.
>
> I'm curious if anyone else deals with this situation as far as medication.
Don't have much experience with meds, but I have come across quite a
few people lately with comorbid Tourette and Asperger (more PDD/autism)
Syndromes. Upon reading about autism, I recognized many of the traits
in myself just as I had earlier recognized the Tourette
characteristics. At first it seemed to me that many autistic traits are
very similar to Tourette traits, while some are quite opposite; but then
I realized that many of the traits I thought were similar to Tourette
traits were more due to autism than Tourette. I do believe that many
traits are shared, but I also think that comorbidity is part of the
reason for the sharing in some cases.
I have found a few case studies on comorbid Asperger & Tourette, and
I'll post some other time after I pull the complete studies.
I personally think that many of the Asperger/autism/PDD traits are
complimentary and that for me it is better to have a bit of both rather
than a lot of one, even though they are also in ways paradoxical and
present unique dificulties.
BradHAWK
rpo...@cap1.cap.vcu.edu
In article <609d4t$79h$2...@gte1.gte.net>,
Brad...@gte.net wrote:
>
> Don't have much experience with meds, but I have come across quite a
> few people lately with comorbid Tourette and Asperger (more PDD/autism)
> Syndromes. Upon reading about autism, I recognized many of the traits
> in myself just as I had earlier recognized the Tourette
> characteristics. At first it seemed to me that many autistic traits are
> very similar to Tourette traits, while some are quite opposite; but then
> I realized that many of the traits I thought were similar to Tourette
> traits were more due to autism than Tourette. I do believe that many
> traits are shared, but I also think that comorbidity is part of the
> reason for the sharing in some cases.
> I have found a few case studies on comorbid Asperger & Tourette, and
> I'll post some other time after I pull the complete studies.
> I personally think that many of the Asperger/autism/PDD traits
are
> complimentary and that for me it is better to have a bit of both rather
> than a lot of one, even though they are also in ways paradoxical and
> present unique dificulties.
>
> BradHAWK
I have read that tics are one of the possible symptoms of Asperger’s
disorder, however, in speaking with someone from an autism support group
the other day I was told that tics are not part of AS and that they
represent a separate neurological problem. She went on to say that
something like sixty percent of those with AS also develop some sort of
tic or seizure disorder. Apparently this happens often during the teen
years and frequently these traits disappear in adulthood. If you look up
schizoid personality disorder you will most likely find no mention of
physical symptoms but a few sources will mention the same traits as are
found in AS. Schizoid personality disorder is what you are diagnosed
with if you are AS-like but are too social (a subjective evaluation);
this is probably what most would be diagnosed with rather than AS or high
functioning autism (I am wondering if schizoid is what AS people grow up
to be if they are very good at coping or if life experiences give them
more confidence to interact with others… I’m having a slight disagreement
over what AS is and what qualifies as AS; even some professionals refuse
to consider AS as a real diagnosis yet, perhaps feeling that it is the
same as SPD)
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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nadine....@removethis.ualberta.ca
BradHAWK <Brad...@gte.net> wrote:
: Don't have much experience with meds, but I have come across quite a
: few people lately with comorbid Tourette and Asperger (more PDD/autism)
: Syndromes. Upon reading about autism, I recognized many of the traits
: in myself just as I had earlier recognized the Tourette
: characteristics. At first it seemed to me that many autistic traits are
: very similar to Tourette traits, while some are quite opposite; but then
Maybe some of you with this Tourette/Asperger combination could give me
some clues as to what might help with my 11 year old son who has this
combination in a mild form, along with ADD. Basically, the problem is he
doesn't get his work done at school and he is bringing it home as
homework. Way too much of it. And he often doesn't get the work done at
home either. He is next to impossible to motivate. Both rewards and
punishments have little effect, though he does cry if yelled at. Any
ideas are welcome. My son is not happy. Neither am I, his dad or his
teachers. Is he likely to improve as he gets older? What happens when he
gets into the work force? Will he be able to hold a professional job?
What does PDD stand for?
Please note that my e-mail address requires modification to reply to me
personally, an attempt to avoid spam.
--
Nadine Leenders
CNS
BlessedBy2
>
>What does PDD stand for?
>
>
Pervasive Developmental Disorder -- I think it's another name for mild AS.
rpo...@cap1.cap.vcu.edu
In article <60bfgt$jf6$1...@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
nadine....@RemoveThis.ualberta.ca wrote:
>
> Maybe some of you with this Tourette/Asperger combination could give me
> some clues as to what might help with my 11 year old son who has this
> combination in a mild form, along with ADD. Basically, the problem is he
> doesn't get his work done at school and he is bringing it home as
> homework. Way too much of it. And he often doesn't get the work done at
> home either. He is next to impossible to motivate. Both rewards and
> punishments have little effect, though he does cry if yelled at. Any
> ideas are welcome. My son is not happy. Neither am I, his dad or his
> teachers. Is he likely to improve as he gets older? What happens when he
> gets into the work force? Will he be able to hold a professional job?
>
> Nadine Leenders
> CNS
You have described my son, who is presently 16. He was taking zoloft and
desoxyn (I don’t know the correct spelling), the anti-depressant seemed
to help reduce his oppositional behavior but he still had problems
getting any homework done and turned in (always his biggest problem).
Things kept getting worse for him until we arranged for him to have a
class called "coping" where he was able to do his homework at school with
a teacher near by. It is impossible for him to get any work done at
home. I think that there is some sort of stress problem that begins the
minute he walks in the door. Whatever we do, we cannot get him to do
school work at home, unless it involves reading something of his choice.
His preferred past time is to plop down in front of a role-playing video
game and just play for hours or watch cartoons (his interest in cartoons
has grown to be more than for just entertainment); he sometimes watches
news shows if they do some Republican bashing. I think this helps to
isolate him from his surroundings and he uses it for mental escapism just
as some choose to read, or to run, or to drink alcohol, or to use drugs,
and so forth. I suspect that you have found that all the nifty
organizational techniques in the world are useless if a person chooses
not to implement them. My son’s room is a disaster, I think even he
dislikes being there, but he cannot bring himself to clean it up (but he
will fuss at his sisters for the mess in their room, he just shuts the
door to his room so they can’t see it - "do as I say and not as I do").
I don’t know what to expect of him when he grows up. I know his mother
has been doing too much for him during his whole life and we have never
consistently used a method of consequences (his mom can’t stand the
tantrums he throws if he can’t get something his way and it either tends
to escalate into a major conflict or she gives in to get him off her
back). I suspect that if you can implement a system of rewards and
punishments that applies to things he uses for mental stimulation, keep
off his back about what he does at home (maybe get him to agree to a
certain amount of time on school work every day at the same time in an
uncluttered location for the promise from you of not mentioning homework
or any other academic problems during the day), arrange for some sort of
guided study time at school, and consult with a physician about
anti-depressants you would see some improvement… but then maybe not… I
haven’t solved the problem yet, but I am beginning to see some of the
reasons it might exist. (a small note of optimism, I was very similar
when young, when I made it to college I found college to be much easier
than high school; there was more freedom to do what I wished and not what
I was required to do. If he can get a creative job that allows him
control over his time and what he does he’ll be happier… but it may not
be a good idea for him to get married, he may not have the ambition to
advance at his profession to a point that he can support a family) ---
(and don’t fuss at me Sandy!!)
JParry4120
This is my first message so I don't even know if it will work! I have a
10 yr old boy and a 11 yr old girl with Tourette's. I just recently
watched the Rain Man again and went heh wait a minute and started reading
up on Autism (thinking what's the difference)
It can be very hard to get my son's attention, he talks very loud, he
lines things up for hours still at 10, has tantrums, has to wear the same
cloths and eat the same food over and over,etc.etc. He's also has AHAD and
OCD traits. Clonidine seems to calm him down and make his rage attacks
less servere.
My daughter can only handle playing with other people a very short time
before she gets very aggitated, ( I also need alot of personal space.) she
has a photographic memory, and is very hypersensitive to noise and touch.
She obsesses and imitates whatever she is interested in at the time. She
just started Prozac and seems much less aggitated and loving already.
Clonidine didn't help her at all.Ialso have a nephew that talks very loud
and mechanical and a niece that barely talks at all.
I think their is a very fine line between the different diagnosis's,
but the important thing is gettingthe right help and medication that works
for your children.
I'm trying St. John Wort's and a B complex, zinc, and folic acid, for
myself for anxiety, and obsessions (like having to read this newsgroup and
every book I can find to find out as much Tourette's as possible!) I'll
let you know how it works been on it for a month and seem to feel a little
better.
By the way is there a way to spell check this stuff???
Nice to meet you all!
Bev from Canada
Irina Shoushounova
BlessedBy2 (bless...@aol.com) writes:
>>
>>What does PDD stand for?
>>
>>
>
> Pervasive Developmental Disorder -- I think it's another name for mild AS.
Dear Blessed:
Hi!
The first diagnosis my 5 yr old got was PDD, which is, basicall,y what
they call it when they know something is wrong but aren't sure what.(This
was at the children's hospital BT, which is inept I think!). Later when we
saw a better doc she qucikly disgnosed autism, TS, ADHD, OCD, retardation
and psychotic disorder.
Irina, mother of 6 and 4 months(almost 5) with baby # 7.
--
******* IRINA SHOUSHOUNOVA bo693 or Lov...@ottawa.com *******
Do not offend the Lord our God any more, because He is already
so much offended. Our Lady of Fatima, 13 October 1917.
**************************************************************
nadine....@removethis.ualberta.ca
rpo...@cap1.cap.vcu.edu wrote:
Thanks for replying. Your son sounds similar, but not quite the same as
mine. I'll note some of the similarities and differences below.
: You have described my son, who is presently 16. He was taking zoloft and
: desoxyn (I don’t know the correct spelling), the anti-depressant seemed
: to help reduce his oppositional behavior but he still had problems
Despite Vic's lack of performance, I wouldn't say that he has what I'd
call oppositional behavior. If you stand over him, he will work. I never
get the impression he is out to cause trouble or disobey me. He always
seems repentant when his lack of performance is pointed out to him.
Sometimes, after a period of being in trouble for a while, he will
improve.
: getting any homework done and turned in (always his biggest problem).
: Things kept getting worse for him until we arranged for him to have a
: class called "coping" where he was able to do his homework at school with
: a teacher near by. It is impossible for him to get any work done at
: home. I think that there is some sort of stress problem that begins the
: minute he walks in the door. Whatever we do, we cannot get him to do
: school work at home, unless it involves reading something of his choice.
That sounds awful! My boy will work, it is just at an incredibly slow
rate.
: His preferred past time is to plop down in front of a role-playing video
: game and just play for hours or watch cartoons (his interest in cartoons
: has grown to be more than for just entertainment); he sometimes watches
: news shows if they do some Republican bashing. I think this helps to
My son would spend almost all his time playing computer games or Nintendo
if we let him. He spends some time reading Garfield.
: has been doing too much for him during his whole life and we have never
: consistently used a method of consequences (his mom can’t stand the
: tantrums he throws if he can’t get something his way and it either tends
: to escalate into a major conflict or she gives in to get him off her
: back). I suspect that if you can implement a system of rewards and
: punishments that applies to things he uses for mental stimulation, keep
: off his back about what he does at home (maybe get him to agree to a
: certain amount of time on school work every day at the same time in an
: uncluttered location for the promise from you of not mentioning homework
: or any other academic problems during the day), arrange for some sort of
: guided study time at school, and consult with a physician about
: anti-depressants you would see some improvement… but then maybe not… I
: haven’t solved the problem yet, but I am beginning to see some of the
It has helped (not enough) to do some of what you say. He isn't allowed
on the Nintendo or computer until his homework is done. I don't think he
is depressed and I'm leary about drugs.
I'd like to have the teachers give him a lighter workload, kind of like
what you suggested and to quit being so fussy about neatness and grammer.
If my son concerns himself about this, he is even slower!
: reasons it might exist. (a small note of optimism, I was very similar
: when young, when I made it to college I found college to be much easier
: than high school; there was more freedom to do what I wished and not what
: I was required to do. If he can get a creative job that allows him
: control over his time and what he does he’ll be happier… but it may not
: be a good idea for him to get married, he may not have the ambition to
: advance at his profession to a point that he can support a family) ---
: (and don’t fuss at me Sandy!!)
I'm happy to hear you made it through college. If my son can find the
self-disipline to do that, I'm sure he'll be fine. He is extremely
intelligent, but very hard to motivate.
--
Nadine Leenders
CNS
FANGBASHER
--the best way to get one with ADHD to begin to clean up a mess or room is
NOT to tell them to clean up the room. What works best is to ask them to
do specific tasks....i.e.--'please pick up all the socks that are on the
floor or hiding througout your room;' 'I need you to pick gather all the
shirts in your room that are not in your drawer or haninging in the
closet...' What worked best for us---I had actually taken pictures of my
eldest daughter's room to a therapist...(whom she was seeing for a
'post-traumatic stress' incident for a short period). That didn't help. I
wound up hiring my cousin's daughter--who keeps her room in perfect order
and often said that she 'loved to organize'--to spend the day cleaning out
my daughter's room with her. (This was 5 years ago, and I paid her
$50.00--best investment ever made) That helped. We didn't have the stress
of my going 'nuts' and she saw a near-age mate (she was 3 years older) who
knew how to do it--'in the act.' Now, I can't say that my daughter has not
allowed her room to get that way again--SHE HAS--but she now has the skills
to know how to go about remedying the situation and HAS USED THEM. Funny
thing, though, despite the near-hazardous state of her room, she was
photography editor of the year book then and the teacher complimented her
organizational skills and said it had never been done that well...Anyway,
she is now living in a college dorm. She recently cut her foot on some
glass. When asked if she had ever swept her floor, she indicated that not
only had she not done that but that she Didn't Want to! We haven't
contracted for housecleaning services yet, but am now wondering if that may
be necessary for 'health' reasons...However, she did send us a picture--and
it is neat and organized...
BradHAWK
JParry4120 wrote:
>
> This is my first message so I don't even know if it will work!
It worked!
> I have a
> 10 yr old boy and a 11 yr old girl with Tourette's. I just recently
> watched the Rain Man again and went heh wait a minute and started reading
> up on Autism (thinking what's the difference)
What books have you read? I recomend Uta Frith's "Autism and Asperger
Syndrome", among others.
> I think their is a very fine line between the different diagnosis's,
> but the important thing is gettingthe right help and medication that works
> for your children.
>
> I'm trying St. John Wort's and a B complex, zinc, and folic acid, for
> myself for anxiety, and obsessions (like having to read this newsgroup and
> every book I can find to find out as much Tourette's as possible!) I'll
> let you know how it works been on it for a month and seem to feel a little
> better.
Just remember that some of the Tourettic and Autistic characteristics
that you mentioned can be wonderful traits. Don't try to eliminate the
TS and autistic parts of you and yours, just try to alleviate the
specific problems you have. For inspiration, read Oliver Sacks "An
Anthropologis on Mars", and Temple Grandin's books.
> By the way is there a way to spell check this stuff???
Well, for starters, "AHAD" is spelled "ADHD" :o)
BradHAWK
JParry4120
Thanks Brad you can be my personal spell check. My husband says there
isn't one on here. Or if my 11 year old girl is around with the
photographic memory I can have her check it.
Definately agree this traits can be positive. If you can stand the being
late, looking very unorganized, and rushing through other things to get to
what your obsessing on. I am a firm believer that
ALL famous people have to have OCD to become that good at something
including atheletes, actors, musicians, and artists. That can be my answer
to the famous people thread.
I have to be very specific to get my kids to do anything especially
cleaning. I got some great ideas from Dr Fontelle's book on How to Live
With Your Children A Positive Approach to Parenting. Good teenager advice
too. We have a list with 6 simple tasks and behaviors I expect of them
everyday ie. make bed, put laundry down shoot(biggy), hang cloths and coats
up(biggy), put dishes in kitchen, no hitting, no insulting and swearing(
they don't have coprolalia). Each task is worth $0.08 ( That's right folks
money talks) for a total of $3.36 Canadian (that's about $0.25 American
HeHe) with a bonus to even it to $4.00 if they have less than 3 unchecked.
This leaves room for error on the kids part. Make it easy for them to
achive so they feel good about themselves. Notice the chart is set up
listing positive behaviors. Start simple and add and delete behaviors
that you may be having problems with.
I think this also ties in with the bottom line thread. I expect specific
behavior instead of just handing out money. They are responsible for their
actions and there is no surprise rage attacks (on my part that is) because
I am empowed by the mighty chart..
Bev from Canada ( Did I mention I talk alot?)
Irina Shoushounova
Dear Bev:
Where in Canada are you from? We're in Ottawa......
Irina, mother of 6 and expecting # 7...and now have a whole house full of
people with colds,too!!
BradHAWK
JParry4120 wrote:
>
> Bev from Canada ( Did I mention I talk alot?)
Now where have I heard that before?
BradHAWK.........yap yap yap yap......
JParry4120
We're from Winnipeg, Manitoba and we have a great Tourette Clinic here
Bev
Pieter Nagel
On 30 Sep 1997, JParry4120 wrote:
> We're from Winnipeg, Manitoba and we have a great Tourette Clinic here
yeah!
winnipeg, winnipeg, go-go-go!
the rest don't make it 'cause they're too slow!
we tic and scratch and pick our zits
as good as anyone else can spit
we fart, in part, but for the rest don't know
how to breath in this air when our tics won't go
still its fine and we shine at echo --
still its fine and we shine at ec --
still is fine and we shine at.... excuses
for not writing exams in the same span as
- we shine at echolalia! -
the rest.
,_
/_) /| /
/ i e t e r / |/ a g e l