Fasting and Tinnitus
FastE...@aol.com
David Phillips <323370...@qxo.com> wrote:
>I've tried fasting with little success. My blood pressure shot
>up, and I got terrible headaches. Maybe I didn't pursue it
>correctly, or maybe somebody knows a less drastic way to test
>this?--David
My guess, David, is that you didn't. In FASTING AND EATING FOR HEALTH,
Joel Fuhrman, M.D., writes (p. 191): "Diseases such as acne and eczema,
tinnitus
(chronic noise in the ears), vertigo, fibromyalgia, glaucoma, cervical
dysplasia, chronic neck and back pain, polymyalgia rheumatica, and many
others are helped by fasting. I have witnessed patients with severe
hypothyroidism (not producing sufficient thyroid hormone) who have had
their blood tests normalize after fasting. Even deafness has resolved
during fasting for some other condition, surprising both the patient and
the doctor when the hearing returned."
Re: your blood pressure shooting up, David, the opposite is true with
intelligent fasting. As Fuhrman notes, p. 14: "The job of fasting is to
supply the body with the ideal environment to accomplish its work of
healing. During the period of a fast, the blood pressure will drop, the
level of retained metabolic wastes will fall, and the blood vessels will
begin to soften and rid themselves of hard sclerotic plaque. In a short
period of time, the heart and brain, as well as other organs and muscles,
will receive a more adequate blood supply and oxygenation. The tissues
throughout the body's systems will begin to purify themselves, and the
rejuvenation process of the fast will have begun."
Re: those actually on blood-pressure related meds, Fuhrman adds, p. 201:
"Since fasting is so effective at lowering blood pressure, hypertensive
medication should be stopped prior to or early in the fast. For patients
with dangerously high blood pressure who require some medication in the
early stages of the fast, a transdermal clonidine patch is usually
tolerated well. The patch is needed only temporarily, until blood pressure
decreases to a satisfactory level. Nitrates are compatible with fasting,
as long as the blood pressure is not too low, and can be continued in
patients with angina. Angina, however, invariably resolves with fasting,
thereby eliminating the need for nitrates at some point in the fast."
For those already suffering heart disease, Fuhrman states, p. 115: "For a
person with advanced cardiovascular disease, fasting can not only begin to
reverse the damage caused by years of improper eating, but also rapidly
decrease the risk of sudden death from a heart attack or stroke. First of
all, fasting rapidly and effectively lowers blood pressure without
medication. In most cases, this effect is permanent, if the person
maintains the correct eating pattern after the fast. A period of
therapeutic fasting will lower blood pressure even in severe hypertension.
Many of my patients who have had difficulty controlling hypertension
utilizing combinations of three or four different drugs have had their
blood pressure decrease into the normal range through fasting. Moreover,
blood pressure generally remains low upon the reintroduction of food, if
they continue to follow the recommended diet."
As to the headaches, David, again, the opposite is true with skillful fasting.
On p. 76, Doctor Fuhrman writes: "Headaches are a signal that something is
wrong. Typically, they result from retained toxins in the body. When these
metabolic waste products are eliminated, people can regain their
long-sought-after freedom from pain."
Perhaps what you experienced, David, were simply withdrawal
symptoms--either from caffeine (?), or from improper eating. Fuhrman, p.
18: "Fasting is not so uncomfortable as many would think. Hunger typically
goes away completely by the second day, and the symptoms of withdrawal
from food and toxins typically end quickly, usually by the second day of
the fast. Interestingly, it has been noted by physicians conducting fasts
for decades that true hunger in a mouth and throat sensation, felt in the
same spot that one feels thirst. Gnawing in the stomach, stomach cramping,
headaches, and generalized weakness from not eating or skipping a meal or
two are experienced only by those who have been eating the standard
American diet, with all its shortcomings (those most in need of a fast).
Those who have been consuming a healthier, low-fat, low-protein,
plant-based diet for months prior to the fast typically experience no such
typical hunger pains when they fast. Symptoms such as abdominal cramping
and headaches, traditionally thought of as hunger symptoms, are not really
symptoms of hunger. The medical books are obviously wrong here. These
symptoms are experienced only by those eating a diet far too rich and
stressful for their own internal controls. These symptoms are signs of
withdrawal that indicate healing is beginning, when the body has the
opportunity to rest from the continual intake of food."
As Ben Franklin said, I'd have kept it shorter, David, but I didn't have
time. I've spent the past 30 years building our world's largest,
nonresidental fasting clientele, daily recognizing the wisdom of Joel's
words. My firm, Fasting Center International, monitors 18,600+ newsgroups
via the Internet's largest, global database, DejaNews. It was noticed that
you'd requested information on intelligent fasting. In the event you've
not yet received it, FCI is happy to bring some to your attention.
You, David, and anyone else seriously interested in intelligent fasting,
can also find the information you're looking for by pointing your browser
at any search engine and typing in keyword 'fasting'. I'll list a few, and
wish you all the very best, as you follow your intuitive wisdom in taking
back a greater degree of control over your precious body-mind complex.
Also, those seriously interested may also contact me with further
questions. All the very best, and do give us your feedback. Take Courage,
Dennis Paulson, Founder/Director, FCI
Some search engines to try:
http://www.yahoo.com
http://www.webcrawler.com
http://www.excite.com
http://www.metacrawler.com
http://www.opentext.com
http://ultra.infoseek.com
http://www.altavista.com
http://www.lycos.com
Stephen Nagler
Let's see, how can I put this diplomatically? In my humble opinion,
the above post (from Fasting Center International) may be the biggest
compilation of bullshit I have ever encountered.
SMN
Stephen Nagler nag...@mindspring.com Atlanta, GA USA
Jim Chinnis
FastE...@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
>Joel Fuhrman, M.D., writes <snip>
Maybe the good doctor fasted one too many times himself before writing
this stuff.
--
Jim Chinnis jchi...@interramp.com Manassas, VA USA
Bart
Yo Dennis, there's a special name for the diploma you get when you
succesfully fast your blood pressure down to zero: death certificate
ring any bells... By the way, would you like fries with that?
Bart,
Hamilton, Ontario.
>> friendship - the time and distance that separates friends <<
FastE...@aol.com
> Let's see, how can I put this diplomatically? In my humble opinion,
> the above post (from Fasting Center International) may be the biggest
> compilation of bullshit I have ever encountered.
In your obviously limited experience, Steve, you may be right. However,
your approach to another's experiential knowledge sounds neither humble
nor diplomatic. To those such as Joel Fuhrman, M.D., with decades of
experience backing his statements, your hyperbolism is nothing more than a
'knowledge filter' separating out things that don't fit your particular
view or paradigm. Attitude is real easy to come by, Steve. However,
decades of experiential knowledge in supervising intelligent
fasting--which Joel and I both have--is something else entirely.
The Web needs information providers, as well as readers. And by your
response to this M.D.'s informed, experiential views on fasting as it
affects blood pressure, headaches, etc., rather than representing the
supposed POSITIVE virtues of Mindspring Enterprises, from which you post,
you come off merely emphasizing Cicero's point, from the lst Century B.C.:
"When you have no basis for argument, abuse the plaintiff."
This newsgroup is for discussion of the suffering of tinnitus, Steve,
and David Phillips expressed his legitimate experience when he tried
fasting to deal with his suffering, requesting information re: that
experience. Doctor Fuhrman's decades of fasting-supervision experience
speak to the issues of blood pressure and headaches David raised, whether
it passes your knowledge filter or not.
If nothing helpful springs from your mind, Steve, or you have no
experiential knowledge with which to rationally debate Fuhrman's
conclusions, you might pass the microphone to those who HAVE had success
healing tinnitus, high blood pressure, headaches, and the myriad other
im-balances and dis-eases intelligent fasting has helped heal for
millennia as our species' oldest, fasting, and safest (biochemically)
healing modality, which all three Fathers of Western Medicine practiced
and prescribed--Hippocrates, Galen, and Paracelsus (who diagnosed fasting
as "the greatest remedy, the physician within").
There are, of course, OTHER experience-backed views on ending the
suffering of tinnitus, and perhaps you'd care to share yours. Meanwhile,
I'll leave our global audience with one more--that of Andrew Weil, M.D.,
writing in his national bestseller, SPONTANEOUS HEALING, p. 92:
"A German colleague who works at a hospital devoted to psychosomatic
medicine surprised me recently be describing the success his institution
has in treating tinnitus--ringing in the ears--a common symptom that can
be quite debilitating. American medicine has no specific treatments for
tinnitus, no understanding of its cause, and little success in alleviating
it. My German friend thinks tinnitus results from chronic muscle tension
in the head and neck, often associated with poor posture and stress. He
prescribes yoga and relaxation training, along with body work, and says he
is frequently able to help rid patients of it."
And Steve, if you're inspired to continue in this debate (hopefully with
something springing from the POSITIVE aspect of your mind that is, in
fact, based in experiential KNOWLEDGE), before you similarly denigrate
Doctor Weil with your dynamically-anticlueful approach, know that Andy
earned his right to contribute, in part, studying botany at Harvard for
four years, followed by four more at Harvard Med. He's currently a medical
school faculty member, and sees patients from all over America, as well as
from other countries, about whom he says: ". . .the vast majority of them
(are) refugees from conventional medicine."
The comments of Dr. Fuhrman you initially denigrated come from his book,
FASTING AND EATING FOR HEALTH, with a Foreword by Neal Barnard, M.D.,
president of Physicians' Committee for Responsible Medicine, stating: "Dr.
Fuhrman's powerful and practical guidelines apply for conditions ranging
from the common cold to serious heart problems. This program provides an
alternative to the cost of all-too-common side effects of surgery and
drugs." Fuhrman currently provides nutritionally-oriented medical care to
patients, as well as nutritional education to other physicians, many of
whom grace the dustcover of his book with glowing praise.
Toward the optimum-health which is still the birthright of most--and a
place I've chosen to live these past 30 years. . .Dennis Paulson,
Founder/Director, Fasting Center International <http://www.fasting.com>
susan moreland
since you, mr. fast expert, have so much wisdom to share on how fasting can
cure tinnitus, i'm sure you'd be willing to share the journal articles that
have resulted from your scientific studies on the subject. we're all
intersted in the facts - not rhetoric -- here. please do share. we're all
ears (excuse the pun).
susan moreland
In article <FastExpert-09...@term1-30.sb.west.net>
FastE...@aol.com writes:
susan moreland
Jim Chinnis
FastE...@aol.com wrote: (garbage snipped)
Dennis, you and your web page are selling a product. You, Dennis, have
various programs for sale which you claim are based on "experiential
knowledge" and that will treat tinnitus by fasting. I believe, Dennis,
that what people will get from their treatments are lighter wallets and
nothing else.
Some claims are made here, Dennis, from time to time that are so vacuous,
pompous, and unsupported that they are actually difficult to rebut in any
brief way. Stephen Nagler, MD, did a pretty good job, Dennis, in a short
space. Ms Moreland, an audiologist specializing in tinnitus, was
absolutely kind, Dennis, in gently questioning your lack of reputable
research to support your claims.
Besides, Dennis, anyone selling a tinnitus-relief product here should be
much better prepared with facts than you seem to be. You, Dennis, have
nothing whatsoever.
Just send Dennis all your money folks, you'll feel better, I'm sure.
Steve C
>>My guess, David, is that you didn't. In FASTING AND EATING FOR HEALTH,
Joel Fuhrman, M.D., writes (p. 191): "Diseases such as acne and eczema,
tinnitus
(chronic noise in the ears), vertigo, fibromyalgia, glaucoma, cervical
dysplasia, chronic neck and back pain, polymyalgia rheumatica, and many
others are helped by fasting. I have witnessed patients with severe
hypothyroidism (not producing sufficient thyroid hormone) who have had
their blood tests normalize after fasting. Even deafness has resolved
during fasting for some other condition, surprising both the patient and
the doctor when the hearing returned."<<
Do you have any clinical evidence - double blind studies and all that -
that supports any of these assertions?
Absent that, I remain skeptical with regard to the tinnitus aspect of
your claims. Given that a good deal of tinnitus is due to cochlear
damage from noise, I fail to see how my food intake, or lack of, will
have anything to do with regenerating damaged hairs.
Steve C
>>Just send Dennis all your money folks, you'll feel better, I'm sure.<<
Perhaps Dennis will become afflicted with severe tinnitus someday and
learn that there isn't enough money he made from the products to find a
cure.
Now that would be irony.
Steve C
>>By the way, would you like fries with that?<<
ROFL!
susan moreland
In article <3236074f...@news.demon.co.uk> ro...@ownworld.demon.co.uk (rory) writes:
>Thanks Dennis Paulson, Founder/Director, FCI for a fine contribution.
>In my opinion you do not deserve the abuse you have received in this
>group - I welcome your views and do not need proof of everything. I
>seem to remeber somebody saying that sciences is only a way of proving
>something that everbody knows anyway.
>kind regards
>rory fogerty EMail ro...@ownworld.demon.co.uk
>your own world ltd. - holistic business practises
>project and quality management
don't confuse me with the facts; my mind's made up?
susan moreland
rory
rory
>
>don't confuse me with the facts; my mind's made up?
>
>
>susan moreland
dream on ....... you don't know the half of it
rory
Stephen Nagler
ro...@ownworld.demon.co.uk (rory) wrote:
>rory
........................................................
Rory -
None of us knows the half of it. But the best tools at our disposal
are an open mind and the scientific method. An "open mind" is not a
foolish mind. It can recognize the difference between fact, theory,
and myth. In my opinion, when theories (such as the fasting THEORY
that started this thread) are supported only by anecdotal evidence
(like "experiential knowledge") and then presented as FACT to a group
of individuals who are suffering and therefore ready to grasp at any
straws in search of relief, we have an ethical issue. So I have a big
problem with such a program supported by anecdote that charges a
non-refundable $669 - at the 50% off bargain Web price - for 60
days.......especially because there may just be some merit to parts of
the theory, but the proponents appear to be unwilling to subject that
theory to scientific evaluation in respected peer-reviewed journals.
What are they afraid of.....loss of income?
Incidentally, since Dennis appears to be impressed (at least in his
two posts here) by the words "Doctor" and "M.D.", let me string some
letters along for you - -
That's "Stephen M. Nagler, MD, DABME, DABS, DABCRS, FSSC, FACS,
FASCRS"
I just prefer "Stephen".
David M. Phillips
Stephen,
My mind is open. I feel fasting could help me identify foods
contributing to the steady worsening of my tinnitus. Since you are
skeptical of Dennis' approach, what would you suggest in the
alternative? Thanks.
--David
Stephen Nagler
.......................................................
David -
I can unequivocally state that fasting will NOT help you identify
foods contributing to the steady worsening of your tinnitus. Assuming
that you have had the appropriate medical evaluation, if you feel that
certain foods are contributing to the steady worsening of your
tinnitus, then use some common sense. Simply cut out the foods you
think might be the culprit *one by one* and see if your tinnitus
improves after a predetermined interval of time. For instance, some
folks find that cheese products aggravate their tinnitus; others have
noted that caffeine bothers them; a few feel that spices kick things
off; still others (poor souls) have difficulty tolerating red wine.
Most people find that elimination of foods has no effect whatsoever.
(By the way, I tried all four of the above - one by one - as a person
with an open mind certainly would. Now, care to join me for dinner at
an Italian restaurant.....wine with the meal and espresso after.)
There is absolutely no way that the kind of fasting referred to in
this thread can identify the specific foods (if any) that might
contribute to the worsening of your tinnitus.
Best wishes with open minded endeavors.
Stephen Nagler, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (well, you know the letters)
Psaluk
Steve Nagler replied to this growing litany "fasting facts".
<None of us knows the half of it. But the best tools at our disposal
<are an open mind and the scientific method. An "open mind" is not a
<foolish mind. It can recognize the difference between fact, theory,
<and myth.
Well said and right on!
< In my opinion, when theories (such as the fasting THEORY
<that started this thread) are supported only by anecdotal evidence
<(like "experiential knowledge") and then presented as FACT to a group
<of individuals who are suffering and therefore ready to grasp at any
<straws in search of relief, we have an ethical issue.
Again well said and expressive of the sentiments of most of us, I am sure.
Why is Dennis throwing his credentials at us?
As Steve said, we can throw ours back. Why do this? Mainly to illustrate
that many of us are trained in, and have a track record, of evaluating
data and turning them into meaningful information, or rejecting them as
irrelevant, and knowing the difference. In cases such as this, we ALL
can make this distinction, especially when non-substantiated "facts" poke
their ugly heads into our llives.
So, right on again Steve.
Paul H. Saluk, Ph.D.
Tekton
There is a difference between opinion, belief, true belief, knowledge, and
wisdom. Mr. Faster has an opinion. Doctor Nagler has knowledge.
tekton
David M. Phillips
Stephen Nagler wrote:
> ...snip...
> Simply cut out the foods you
> think might be the culprit *one by one* and see if your tinnitus
> improves after a predetermined interval of time.
But it seems to me highly likely that one might be tinnitus-sensitive to
multiple foods (perhaps to varying degrees). This might make it
difficult to isolate if one eliminates only one food at a time. Unless
perhaps they cumulatively eliminate questionable foods. But then it
seems it might be easiest to simply start at ground zero, eliminating
all foods, then adding and observing them one by one.
Stephen Nagler
"David M. Phillips" <phil...@qxo.com> wrote:
.......................................................................
With all due respect, David, it seems that your "open mind" is already
made up.....so the following observations are probably a waste of both
of our times: First of all, if your tinnitus is, indeed,
food-sensitive (which would put you in the distinct minority to begin
with), it is vastly more probable that it is sensitive to one food or
food group as opposed to some combination of foods or combination of
food groups. Secondly, if you think that "it might be *easiest* to
simply start at ground zero, eliminating all foods, then adding them
one by one", I would ask you how long you want to go without all
foods.....and how long you want to give each new food added a trial
prior to moving ahead (remember, each food must reach some steady
state equilibration before adding the next). David, you're just the
kind of guy (well-meaning and afflicted with a miserable condition)
that these bood-suckers feast on (while you're fasting). So while
you're at this fast of yours, be sure to purchase the proper
*expensive* plan and dietary supplements to keep you alive. Oh yes,
don't forget, those expensive supplements are every bit as likely to
cause tinnitus as the foods you eliminated in the first place. Maybe
two solid months of nothing but distilled water is the
answer.......after that you might first add a small amount of brussels
sprouts for a couple of weeks.
Look, in all sincerity, I do not wish to be harsh. I am very
concerned - especially because you, like I, am a tinnitus sufferer. I
do know what it feels like to be desperate. I've been there - I
promise. What you propose does not make any sense to me whatsoever,
but I may be wrong - it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
The best of luck to you, David, in your search for relief.
SMN