Doctors need to blame their patients
Barry Davis
telling you stress is the cause of your illhealth they are exonerated from
looking at the wider picture and bothering to find a cure
JOYHTON
Dear Barry, you sure must have had a number of insensitive doctors in your
life. If your statement applies only to your own experience, I think it's
unfair to all the good and caring doctors in the world.
I can only speak about my own doctors and they have all been wonderful to me.
My endo (who is also my primary care physician), my orthopedic surgeon who
performed a total hip replacement on my right hip, my ophthalmologist who
monitors my glaucoma diligently, and all the other docs in my life. From the
obstetrician who delivered my 2 sons who are now 38 and 40 years old, to my new
young dentist who is making sure I don't lose my teeth.
None of them have ever blamed me for any of my ailments or conditions, despite
the fact that I smoked for more than 40 years (quit 3.5 years ago). If my
smoking could have caused my hypothyroidism, my endo never for a moment
mentioned such a possibility even though he urged me to quit for years.
Not a single one of them suggested that my illnesses were caused by stress.
And I have had plenty of it in my life.
However, I would be curious to see any information you may have regarding this
alarming trend that you brought to this NG.
Joyce
Elizabeth Klisiewicz
last year where doctors told me stress was causing all my problems and that
I could not possibly have hypothyroidism. It is extremely frustrating and
makes me angry when this happens. On the other hand, I also have very good
doctors who are trying their best to help me.
Adamec
out what is wrong with you, he will often ask you if you are under "stress."
Aha! That must be it!
fitwell
Or how about the endo that patiently explained to me in about five
different ways that we thyroids, once diagnosed, blame every medical
problem on the thyroid disease. Anything else must be dealt with by
people trained in helping us deal with psychosomatic problems (psychs,
in other words). That's the latest copout by the medical profession.
If you're sick and they can't figure out what's wrong with you, then
it must be in our minds and we need psychiatric help. Seriously!!
That's what he said. I later mentioned this indignantly to my aunt
and she went on to tell me that she and another aunt got the very same
type of treatment.
Well, must be a nifty thing to have the kind of mental power to have
my heart beating too high. I wonder how I manage it in my sleep?
That's a neat trick I should find a way to market! I'd make a mint.
bj
sure xxx symptom is because of yyy disease that the poster
has or thinks s/he has.
None of my doctors has suggested that I need a shrink
because of my problems, although my pcp did ask if I wanted
any counseling help to deal with cancer diagnosis (which
followed a number of other emotional and physical stressful
events over a short period of time).
BTW, stress is often relevant to health problems.
"fitwell" <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
news:3b2f7fb5...@usenet.magma.ca...
Twang
bj <bjo...@erols.com> wrote in message news:9gnscg$ssq$5...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> I've seen a number of postings (not just in a.s.t) that is
> sure xxx symptom is because of yyy disease that the poster
> has or thinks s/he has.
>
> None of my doctors has suggested that I need a shrink
> because of my problems,
I had a dr. attempt to treat my mind with drugs for an ulcer I didn't have.
when I asked him why he was treating me with this mind drug, which was
listed as the last thing to use for this particular problem, and why he was
doing this without doing the full test, and why the test he did came back
negative.. he hemmed and hawed and then wrote in his notes that I was 'quite
excited' which was a total lie.
This was my first visit to him.. and my last. drugs went in the trash.
and I have NO stomach problems at all since dumping the previous years long
scrip for prevacid and taking my stomach distress into my own hands.
all hail medical school!
Twang!
Arlyn Grant
I DID have a peptic ulcer and was put on a multiple amount of drugs.
But the pain got worse and worse even though my tests showed that the
ulcer was gone. So, a gastric something or other was scheduled (you
know, with the tube down your throat) to see if I had a gastric ulcer.
I kept telling my doctor that I thought it was the ulcer meds but he
wouldn't listen to me. Finally, right before the day of the test, I
stopped taking the ulcer meds and wouldn't you know it....the pains
all went away.
ar
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:25:35 -0500, "Twang" <twang...@dtgnet.com>
wrote:
fitwell
the time, not causes. And this comes with hefty price tag. Whereas
if one gets rid of the causes for ulcer, etc., it will go away unless
organic derangement has already occurred (point of no return reached
and/or passed).
Another little known fact is the high acid by-products of a cooked
diet. You eat a better diet you tend to eat even less of the worst of
the cooked foods so you usu make significant to quite drastic
improvements. Go raw and the effects are monumental. I lived through
this myself and the effects are across the board to one degree or
another. Although I was 80-90% living foodist and not 100% till
Janaury of this year, I had enough acid-forming cooked food to develop
EARD (Esophagial Acid Reflux Disease). Coupled with my tachycardia I
was in miserable pain. Although I went 100% raw it took time and I
had to bow to medical people because the irritation was making me
quite ill and increasing stress due to pain. I took rinitidine to
mask pain for about 3 weeks or so. In that time, my body healed
itself and after suffering 6 months with EARD to one degree or
another, the raw diet got rid of it. I was then able to completely
get off the rinitidine which I was very relieved to do.
Again, everyone is going to do what they choose to and I'm not going
to be changing any minds here. But just thought I'd pass this along.
It helps to have the most complete picture possible to make best
decision for each individual case.
Good luck!!
*****************************************
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:19:02 GMT, arl...@mindspring.com (Arlyn Grant)
wrote:
Twang
fitwell <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
> What docs and others forget is that drugs treat symptoms only 99.9% of
> the time, not causes. And this comes with hefty price tag.
yep!
Whereas
> if one gets rid of the causes for ulcer, etc., it will go away unless
> organic derangement has already occurred (point of no return reached
> and/or passed).
double yep!
>
> Another little known fact is the high acid by-products of a cooked
> diet. You eat a better diet you tend to eat even less of the worst of
> the cooked foods so you usu make significant to quite drastic
> improvements. Go raw and the effects are monumental. I lived through
> this myself and the effects are across the board to one degree or
> another. Although I was 80-90% living foodist and not 100% till
> Janaury of this year, I had enough acid-forming cooked food to develop
> EARD (Esophagial Acid Reflux Disease). Coupled with my tachycardia I
> was in miserable pain.
I was told I had GERD. hence the prevacid.
What I had was bad habits, personal stress, and lousy food.
I also have shotskys syndrome.. a non stretching part of the esophogaus.
food just stops. I suffer.. then I either barf it out or it finally goes
down.
since changing my diet instead of three times a week, I feel like I've
screwed up if this happens twice a month.
(I could go have balloon shoved down there..then they blow it up and
stretch the weakened part of the esoph. but hey.. expensive, painful, not
always successful... I think I'll just keep up the good habits and see if I
get even better sans doctors.)
Although I went 100% raw it took time and I
> had to bow to medical people because the irritation was making me
> quite ill and increasing stress due to pain. I took rinitidine to
> mask pain for about 3 weeks or so. In that time, my body healed
> itself and after suffering 6 months with EARD to one degree or
> another, the raw diet got rid of it. I was then able to completely
> get off the rinitidine which I was very relieved to do.
I just wish I could make my son understand how important diet is and how
much crap we're fed by processors.
:-(
> Again, everyone is going to do what they choose to and I'm not going
> to be changing any minds here. But just thought I'd pass this along.
> It helps to have the most complete picture possible to make best
> decision for each individual case.
>
> Good luck!!
>
>
> *****************************************
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:19:02 GMT, arl...@mindspring.com (Arlyn Grant)
> wrote:
>
> >I hear you, Twang!
> >
> >I DID have a peptic ulcer and was put on a multiple amount of drugs.
> >But the pain got worse and worse even though my tests showed that the
> >ulcer was gone. So, a gastric something or other was scheduled (you
> >know, with the tube down your throat) to see if I had a gastric ulcer.
> >I kept telling my doctor that I thought it was the ulcer meds but he
> >wouldn't listen to me. Finally, right before the day of the test, I
> >stopped taking the ulcer meds and wouldn't you know it....the pains
> >all went away.
> >
> >ar
Anything except listen to the patient, take time enough to understand the
problem and the symptoms..
be sure to negate any 'alternative' solution...
and above all.. do that procedure!
I feel for ya.
Twang!
fitwell
wrote:
>
>fitwell <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
>news:3b3038c8...@usenet.magma.ca...
>> What docs and others forget is that drugs treat symptoms only 99.9% of
>> the time, not causes. And this comes with hefty price tag.
>I just wish I could make my son understand how important diet is and how
>much crap we're fed by processors.
>:-(
[snip]
You know, my parents have reminded me how they tried to get me to eat
more healthily. Maybe in the case of your son, he has unrealised
problems that he isn't really conscious of.
I was always adamant about not eating my fruits and vegetables because
they hurt!! The very things I needed to get well hurt! It took me a
year on a lot of juice supplementing before I could eat high
quantities of raw food. I was in bad shape. That was 11 years ago.
Good luck with your son!!
medgirl
news:t6VX6.21806$tI5....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
> fitwell <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
> news:3b3038c8...@usenet.magma.ca...
> > What docs and others forget is that drugs treat symptoms only 99.9% of
> > the time, not causes. And this comes with hefty price tag.
>
> yep!
>
I think you are both hitting on an important point here.
> > Janaury of this year, I had enough acid-forming cooked food to develop
> > EARD (Esophagial Acid Reflux Disease). Coupled with my tachycardia I
> > was in miserable pain.
>
> I was told I had GERD. hence the prevacid.
> What I had was bad habits, personal stress, and lousy food.
The other important thing to remember though, is just what you've said
here - a great many human maladies are caused by the things we do to
ourselves - what we eat, the exercise we don't get, smoking, etc. A lot of
people would prefer to take a cure-all medication or supplement rather than
make extremely difficult changes in their lifestyle. Eating and exercise
are some of the hardest habits to change, as most of us know from personal
experience, but for those who can't or won't change, Prevacid or ranitidine
may be the best medicine has to offer. No pill on earth can make someone
change their lifestyle.
medgirl
Twang
medgirl <medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ob5Y6.408435$ho6.26...@news5.aus1.giganews.com...
I agree with you, in some ways.
But I also have to say: I asked and asked and asked about diet and
exercise, for years. All I got back was the standard lie, 'eat a good diet
and take it easy on the exercise'. This applies to hypothyroidism, as well.
I had to find out EVERYTHING on my own. No Dr. has even addressed my
concerns or questions until I found out myself and practically force them to
deal with it, and then they did a lousy job. My current Dr. seems better, I
will say.
True, some people want their dr. to be their guru, their lord and master.
That's just because people are sheep, trained to be sheep from birth, and
have their sheepyness glorified by education, politics, religion, etc.,
every step of the way.
But, I think one of two things must be true. Dr.s have no idea what's
good for you, or Dr.s don't give a damn what's good for you unless you've
some special meaning to them.
I simply don't believe anymore that we live in a country where your
fellow citizens, in any profession, really give a damn about anything except
themselves except rarely.
I think everyone in here has had trouble finding a dr. who knew his
stethoscope from his wiener. I think everyone in here has had to deal with
dr.s who's education has become an excuse for their incompetency and lack of
concern.
Hey.. what do you think about the lovely Dr. Shipman of England.. he
killed a few hundred people over thirty years or so as the most respected
dr. in his town.
Now.. do you think there just might be a few who'd be glad to make someone
they didn't like a bit sicker by refusing to do their job? or dirtying up a
needle? or prescribing the wrong medication?
Why not? It's near impossible to sue them.
I forget who said "anyone who's not paranoid hasn't been paying
attention".
*G*
patrick
medgirl
> > here - a great many human maladies are caused by the things we do to
> > ourselves - what we eat, the exercise we don't get, smoking, etc. A lot
> of
> > people would prefer to take a cure-all medication or supplement rather
> than
> > make extremely difficult changes in their lifestyle. Eating and
exercise
> > are some of the hardest habits to change, as most of us know from
personal
> > experience, but for those who can't or won't change, Prevacid or
> ranitidine
> > may be the best medicine has to offer. No pill on earth can make
someone
> > change their lifestyle.
Twang wrote in message:
>
> I agree with you, in some ways.
> But I also have to say: I asked and asked and asked about diet and
> exercise, for years. All I got back was the standard lie, 'eat a good
diet
> and take it easy on the exercise'. This applies to hypothyroidism, as
well.
> I had to find out EVERYTHING on my own. No Dr. has even addressed my
> concerns or questions until I found out myself and practically force them
to
> deal with it, and then they did a lousy job. My current Dr. seems better,
I
> will say.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that all doctors do a great job of
discussing diet and exercise with patients. I would also make a guess that
the average physician doesn't take better care of himself than anyone else
(in some cases probably worse). In many cases with diet and exercise we
know what we need to do. It's just hard to do it.
My point was just that for every person like yourself and fitwell who puts a
great deal of effort into diet, exercise, and taking good care of
themselves, there is probably a person who wants it to be as easy as
possible and would prefer the simple pill solution (look at the popularity
of Fen-Phen). I think doctors do get into patterns - "stomach pain - give
Zantac" "hypothyroidism - give Synthroid" "depression - give Prozac." But
part of the reason these patterns exist is because patients tolerate it and
in some cases encourage it. The doctor-patient relationship is a two-way
street. I think many people on this newsgroup who have had problems with
doctors are doing exactly the right thing - they are educating themselves,
asking questions, and refusing to be pacified by a quick answer. They are
shopping around for doctors when it doesn't work out. They are writing
letters when they have problems. There may be other ways of effecting
change, but these are good places to start. It upsets me to see the kinds
of problems people here have had. It's bad enough being sick in the first
place without having so much trouble getting help. I feel very lucky that I
haven't had problems with my doctor and I wish others could have more
positive experiences.
> True, some people want their dr. to be their guru, their lord and
master.
> That's just because people are sheep, trained to be sheep from birth, and
> have their sheepyness glorified by education, politics, religion, etc.,
> every step of the way.
I'm not going to go so far as to say people are sheep. :-) I do think,
however, that in order to get good results, people need to be active
participants in their medical care. Some people rise to this challenge,
begrudgingly perhaps, but end up being as knowledgeable as so-called experts
about their disease. Other people don't want to deal with it, and in the
end they probably aren't doing themselves any favors. And others run into
doctors who don't appreciate their efforts at self-education, which is a
shame.
> But, I think one of two things must be true. Dr.s have no idea what's
> good for you, or Dr.s don't give a damn what's good for you unless you've
> some special meaning to them.
I disagree with this. Frankly, I hope it's not true because that would be a
horrible state of affairs.
(snip for space)
> Hey.. what do you think about the lovely Dr. Shipman of England.. he
> killed a few hundred people over thirty years or so as the most respected
> dr. in his town.
I haven't heard of him, but it recalls to mind a special I saw the other
night on Dr. Swango, doctor and serial killer. Horrible.
> Now.. do you think there just might be a few who'd be glad to make
someone
> they didn't like a bit sicker by refusing to do their job? or dirtying up
a
> needle? or prescribing the wrong medication?
That would be sociopathic, immoral, and criminal behavior. I would hope
doctors wouldn't be any more likely than any other group to engage in it.
However, there are stories of people spitting in food in restaraunts and
putting razor blades in Halloween candy, so I'm sure there are such
sociopathic individuals in medicine as well.
>Why not? It's near impossible to sue them.
Really criminal charges would be more appropriate.
medgirl
fitwell
<medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>Twang <twang...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message
>news:t6VX6.21806$tI5....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>>
>> fitwell <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
>> news:3b3038c8...@usenet.magma.ca...
>> > What docs and others forget is that drugs treat symptoms only 99.9% of
>> > the time, not causes. And this comes with hefty price tag.
>>
>> yep!
>>
>
>I think you are both hitting on an important point here.
[snip]
>The other important thing to remember though, is just what you've said
>here - a great many human maladies are caused by the things we do to
>ourselves - what we eat, the exercise we don't get, smoking, etc. A lot of
>people would prefer to take a cure-all medication or supplement rather than
>make extremely difficult changes in their lifestyle. Eating and exercise
>are some of the hardest habits to change, as most of us know from personal
>experience, but for those who can't or won't change, Prevacid or ranitidine
>may be the best medicine has to offer. No pill on earth can make someone
>change their lifestyle.
There is one other thing that I feel I should mention. You're very
right about everything you say above. One beautiful, out of all the
many, side benefits of raw foodism is its built-in mechanisms. When
on raw, you have a natural tendency to avoid harmful substances. It's
just automatic. All of a sudden, because it's gradual, artificial
things lose their flavour because they're not real. Before you know
it because it's snuck up on you, you're just naturally leaving off
eating more and more things and turning to eating others. This needs
little conscious thought which is what makes it so easy.
Also, I've not mentioned this because it's something to get used to
but re: exercise - boy, when your thyroid is working and you're on
raw, you HAVE to exercise. I am not kidding you!! If you don't,
you're a tazmanian whirling dervish all over the place driving
everyone nuts! Oh, it's nothing like being manic unless you compare
it to a very happy kind of manic. And people just get happy
exasperated. In those days of excess energy, which tire me out just
remembering them, life was good, joyful and I was so full of energy I
almost wanted to say, move over Atlas, I want to play ball!!!
Cheers!!
Life isn't anywhere near as difficult as we've been led to believe.
fitwell
<medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>Twang <twang...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message
>news:u%7Y6.9411$9t6....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>>
>> medgirl <medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > The other important thing to remember though, is just what you've said
>> > here - a great many human maladies are caused by the things we do to
>> > ourselves - what we eat, the exercise we don't get, smoking, etc. A lot
>> of
>> > people would prefer to take a cure-all medication or supplement rather
[snip]
>I certainly didn't mean to imply that all doctors do a great job of
>discussing diet and exercise with patients. I would also make a guess that
>the average physician doesn't take better care of himself than anyone else
>(in some cases probably worse). In many cases with diet and exercise we
>know what we need to do. It's just hard to do it.
It's a question of "physician, heal thyself". It is a sad state of
affairs when the mainstream health care professionals die of the very
same diseases they are supposedly trained to do away with in us.
In any other area, we'd be quick to condemn such a track record. Yet
we tolerate it in this area. Not very smart.
What will make a well person ill, is certainly never in a million
years going to make an ill person well.
Twang
There is no excuse for Dr.s just passing out pills. None.
I don't care what the patient wants or how stupid they are, the Dr.s job is
in fact to circumvent their ignorance and laziness.
Dr.s should be HAPPY to have patients who are attempting to be informed, and
do the right thing.
I think many people on this newsgroup who have had problems with
> doctors are doing exactly the right thing - they are educating themselves,
> asking questions, and refusing to be pacified by a quick answer. They are
> shopping around for doctors when it doesn't work out. They are writing
> letters when they have problems. There may be other ways of effecting
> change, but these are good places to start. It upsets me to see the kinds
> of problems people here have had. It's bad enough being sick in the first
> place without having so much trouble getting help. I feel very lucky that
I
> haven't had problems with my doctor and I wish others could have more
> positive experiences.
Me, too.
> > True, some people want their dr. to be their guru, their lord and
> master.
> > That's just because people are sheep, trained to be sheep from birth,
and
> > have their sheepyness glorified by education, politics, religion, etc.,
> > every step of the way.
>
> I'm not going to go so far as to say people are sheep. :-)
Oh come on. People are easily as dumb as sheep.
You just described that condition above.
I do think,
> however, that in order to get good results, people need to be active
> participants in their medical care. Some people rise to this challenge,
> begrudgingly perhaps, but end up being as knowledgeable as so-called
experts
> about their disease. Other people don't want to deal with it, and in the
> end they probably aren't doing themselves any favors. And others run into
> doctors who don't appreciate their efforts at self-education, which is a
> shame.
I'd say disgrace, but ok.
> > But, I think one of two things must be true. Dr.s have no idea what's
> > good for you, or Dr.s don't give a damn what's good for you unless
you've
> > some special meaning to them.
>
> I disagree with this. Frankly, I hope it's not true because that would be
a
> horrible state of affairs.
I should probably have said some or many, but I already know it's true.
In small towns and in state funded hospitals you find dr.s that are happy to
have morons who'll do whatever they're told, very often.
> (snip for space)
>
> > Hey.. what do you think about the lovely Dr. Shipman of England.. he
> > killed a few hundred people over thirty years or so as the most
respected
> > dr. in his town.
>
> I haven't heard of him, but it recalls to mind a special I saw the other
> night on Dr. Swango, doctor and serial killer. Horrible.
>
> > Now.. do you think there just might be a few who'd be glad to make
> someone
> > they didn't like a bit sicker by refusing to do their job? or dirtying
up
> a
> > needle? or prescribing the wrong medication?
>
> That would be sociopathic, immoral, and criminal behavior. I would hope
> doctors wouldn't be any more likely than any other group to engage in it.
> However, there are stories of people spitting in food in restaraunts and
> putting razor blades in Halloween candy, so I'm sure there are such
> sociopathic individuals in medicine as well.
>
> >Why not? It's near impossible to sue them.
>
> Really criminal charges would be more appropriate.
>
> medgirl
Yep.
Twang!
medgirl
> > My point was just that for every person like yourself and fitwell who
puts
> a great deal of effort into diet, exercise, and taking good care of
> > themselves, there is probably a person who wants it to be as easy as
> > possible and would prefer the simple pill solution (look at the
popularity
> > of Fen-Phen). I think doctors do get into patterns - "stomach pain -
give
> > Zantac" "hypothyroidism - give Synthroid" "depression - give Prozac."
> But part of the reason these patterns exist is because patients tolerate
it
> and in some cases encourage it. The doctor-patient relationship is a
two-way
> > street.
>
> There is no excuse for Dr.s just passing out pills. None.
> I don't care what the patient wants or how stupid they are, the Dr.s job
is
> in fact to circumvent their ignorance and laziness.
I agree with you 100%. There is no excuse for that. However, individual
patients who are more aggressive about their medical care may have better
results. Should they have to be in order to get decent medical care? Of
course not. In a practical sense, though, they may need to be until the
greater problem is remedied. As to what the remedy is, I don't know.
And I still stand by my feeling that there are some things that no doctor,
priest, parent, or spouse can make people do. Diet, exercise, and smoking
being good examples. You can have the best doctor and the most information
in the world, but these things require effort to change.
> Dr.s should be HAPPY to have patients who are attempting to be informed,
and
> do the right thing.
Yes. I think many are, but sadly, there are many who view such people as
slowing down their busy schedules. This is a stupid viewpoint, because an
informed patient who is willing to participate in his medical care will
probably save the doctor time down the road as he gets healthier.
medgirl
fitwell
wrote:
>
>medgirl <medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:YE9Y6.1273$wM1.1...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
>> Twang <twang...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:u%7Y6.9411$9t6....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>> >
>> > medgirl <medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
>> My point was just that for every person like yourself and fitwell who puts
>a
>> great deal of effort into diet, exercise, and taking good care of
Remember, though, that for some of us, this "effort" was so necessary
it takes no effort at all. When you embark on raw foodism, it
self-perpetuates itself and creates its own set of requirements.
Exercise becomes a necessity because you feel the need to do it and
then it feels great while you do it.
Who has ever really resisted the urge for junk food? When it's a
strong compulsion, it is difficult to not do it. No effort was
required to eat junk food, right? Why? It just happens, doesn't it.
We don't say "I have to eat this junk food" and then make a conscious
effort to do it. It has its own built in requirements that make it
easy to follow. Well, conversely though much more positive is what
happens when you wean yourself from junk food through the easiest
process of all - living foods. You just start following healthier
lifestyle practices. Very little effort really. Like a car, to get
it rolling takes a bit of effort, but it then rolls along on its own
momentum with minimum effort from us.
In fact out of all the types of vegetarianism, regular and vegan, this
one is the easiest. Veganism was the hardest.
[snip]
>> I'm not going to go so far as to say people are sheep. :-)
>
>Oh come on. People are easily as dumb as sheep.
>You just described that condition above.
[snip]
You know, there is one aspect that we keep forgetting if we ever
really knew it at all: we're part of the mammals family. As such, we
depend on "authority" to teach us what to do beyond what is
instinctual to a great degree. Parents teach children and then as
adults, we add to the extended family as we week guidance in many
ways.
Is it always because we're sheep? Or is it believing that others in
"higher" positions of knowledge may know more than we do and following
the advice that is given because of that. This response, like
anything, is essential to our survival, it's just that medical science
is built on fallacies, so that's where the structure falls because the
foundation is weak.
Yes, we may sometimes follow blindly, but if we remember our natural
mammalian tendencies to learn from others and also do a lot of
research on the side, we can tread the path down the middle at a safe
distance from either extreme.
[snip]
medgirl
(snip)
> In fact out of all the types of vegetarianism, regular and vegan, this
> one is the easiest. Veganism was the hardest.
I've been a vegetarian for almost 8 years, but being a vegan seems very
difficult to me. The difficulties I've had with being vegetarian don't
involve missing meat, but rather trying to find food options in environments
that are not vegetarian-friendly. Veganism seems like it would multiply
these problems by a lot.
(snip)
> Yes, we may sometimes follow blindly, but if we remember our natural
> mammalian tendencies to learn from others and also do a lot of
> research on the side, we can tread the path down the middle at a safe
> distance from either extreme.
This is very wise advice.
medgirl
Adamec
heartburn (which is just out) includes a chapter on ulcers.
The book is How to Stop Heartburn: Simple Ways to Heal Heartburn and Acid
Reflux. My coauthor is Anil Minocha, M.D.
Chris Adamec
Twang
out.
Twang!
Adamec <ada...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010622080739...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
Adamec
Chris
fitwell
<medgi...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>fitwell <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
>news:3b32c489...@usenet.magma.ca...
>
>(snip)
>
>> In fact out of all the types of vegetarianism, regular and vegan, this
>> one is the easiest. Veganism was the hardest.
>
>I've been a vegetarian for almost 8 years, but being a vegan seems very
>difficult to me. The difficulties I've had with being vegetarian don't
>involve missing meat, but rather trying to find food options in environments
>that are not vegetarian-friendly. Veganism seems like it would multiply
>these problems by a lot.
Not to discourage anyone, but yes, general vegetarianism is definitely
much easier. Trouble is, if you're not vegan then strictly speaking
you're not avoiding animal products completely because they get in
where you least expect it. I've been horrified at what has cropped up
over at alt.food.vegan. Lots of notifications over there and I'm
constantly amazed at vegetarian products that actually aren't. I'm
just glad I don't have that to deal with that anymore. You feel so
much better on it, though, and it's that one step up in the ladder of
health. But everyone just has to find the level they're most
comfortable with.
Here's a common one, remember the times you've ordered a vegetarian
pizza roll only to bite into then spit out pepperoni??? Yuck.
Cheers!!
fitwell
Hey, no problem. Information always welcomed.
Tell me, in the alternative paths, a lot has been said on the miracles
of fresh, raw cabbage juice for ulcers (vitamin k or u, is it?). Did
you all find anything on that? Just curious...
Good luck!!
Adamec
"bad" list for anyone who has chronic heartburn!
Chris
Barry Davis
eat etc yet despite doing everything right they still cant stop the blasted
symptoms
Doctors really have got to start treating the cause of the llness not just
the symptoms because as others have said medication only touches the surface
Until medicine recognises the true cause and effect syndrome and STOPS using
stress and phycosomatic labels to blame the patient the scenario will
continue
Kevin G. Rhoads
>scrip for prevacid and taking my stomach distress into my own hands.
Apparently Prevacid (tm) can induce or exacerbate IBS (irritable bowel
syndrome) and related lower GI problems. Also, lower GI problems
can induce or exacerbate upper GI problems, including excess acidity
in the stomach.
So, if you are one of those in whom prevacid induced IBS it is
possible to get in a self-perpetuating problem.
Prilosec(tm) is apparently not as problem prone as prevacid in
this area.
Anyone with GI problems in the lower regions is strongly urged to
lurk on alt.support.crohns-colitis for a while -- lots of good stuff
there, particularly both FAQs and the books they recommend.
Even if you do not have IBS, colitis or Crohn's, the tips they
recommend for dealing with lower GI upset are very useful.
--
Kevin G. Rhoads, Ph.D. (The Cheshire Cat for official Internet mascot.)
kgrhoads@NO_SPAM.alum.mit.edu
medgirl
> Apparently Prevacid (tm) can induce or exacerbate IBS (irritable bowel
> syndrome) and related lower GI problems. Also, lower GI problems
> can induce or exacerbate upper GI problems, including excess acidity
> in the stomach.
>
(snip)
>
> Anyone with GI problems in the lower regions is strongly urged to
> lurk on alt.support.crohns-colitis for a while -- lots of good stuff
> there, particularly both FAQs and the books they recommend.
> Even if you do not have IBS, colitis or Crohn's, the tips they
> recommend for dealing with lower GI upset are very useful.
Are you saying Prevacid induces/exacerbates irritable bowel syndrome or
inflammatory bowel syndrome?
Joan McPhee
> Are you saying Prevacid induces/exacerbates irritable bowel syndrome or
> inflammatory bowel syndrome?
===========================
Here is a Prilosec vs Prevacid story from another list:
Subject: OT: Prilosec vs. Prevacid; a warning
A lot of people on the list have mentioned that they take Prilosec,
so I thought I'd pass on a warning based on a recent experience. The short
version of the warning is: Hospitals may substitute Prevacid for a patient
who has been taking Prilosec. For some people Prevacid doesn't work well,
but if you're sick enough to be in the hospital you may not be able to
distinguish the bad effects of not getting Prilosec from all the other
things that are going on. So it might be worthwhile to try Prevacid while
you're healthy. If it doesn't work for you, then alert whichever family
member or friend will be your advocate in the hospital that they should
check specifically to see whether you are actually getting Prilosec, and if
not they should _make_sure_ that you are changed back to Prilosec.
First let me say that I have no connection with the makers of
Prilosec, and indeed I think it is immorally overpriced. (My
experience is
with the U.S.A.; most drugs are more reasonably priced in other first-world
countries, whose health systems have the market power to negotiate lower
prices.) Prevacid is cheaper and works on the same biological system in
approximately the same way, but it is not molecularly identical (as generic
drugs are); if it works for you it is probably a good choice.
My 94 year old aunt has been taking Prilosec for years for
esophageal reflux (GERD). When she started taking it, it made a tremendous
difference in her quality of life, not only in preventing the problems with
reflux but also in lowering the amount of stomach gas produced and
increasing the comfort of digestion. After she had taken it for a
couple of
years she tried to substitute Prevacid, since it is much cheaper. But the
Prevacid just didn't work for her -- I mainly remember her experiencing
increased digestive discomfort and increased belching.
She was in the hospital recently for cancer surgery. She was
admitted the day before surgery, so received her medications just before
surgery from the hospital pharmacy. I didn't know it at the time, but the
hospital substituted Prevacid for Prilosec. The operation lasted six hours.
A few days after the operation she vomited a significant amount of blood;
the doctors found that the blood was coming from erosion of the esophagus.
By this time I had found out that she was getting Prevacid, but I hadn't
objected to that because too much else was going on for me to focus on the
Prevacid. But at this point I woke up to the fact that she was getting a
medication that hadn't worked for her before, and I thought that the
esophageal erosion had probably been caused by stomach acid that was not
being controlled by the Prevacid -- possibly from 6 hours flat on her back
during the operation. So I talked with the chief resident about it, and he
said that the hospital pharmacy did not carry Prilosec, so it would have to
be special-ordered, but it could be done; he said he would do it after
checking with the gastroenterologist who had been called in to diagnose the
erosion. So I assumed it had been done. (A lot was still going on -- she
developed ICU psychosis and needed to have a family member with her in the
ICU all the time, not only to keep her reasonably soothed but also to save
the sanity of the nurses.) Several days later (she was in the hospital for
two and a half weeks), I found out that she was still on Prevacid. She had
eaten very little since the operation; it's usual for people to not feel
like eating after major abdominal surgery, but at this point I thought it
likely that the gastric discomfort which Prevacid did not prevent for her
was probably causing it to be even more difficult than usual for her to
force herself to eat. So I really forced the issue, and got them to agree
that she could take the Prilosec that I had brought from home. (The
pharmacy assistant told me that Prevacid and Prilosec were "the same thing";
I told her that while they were in the same general class of drugs, they
were not bio-identical and I knew that Aunt Frances reacted differently to
them.) Sure enough, after she started taking Prilosec, she began to eat
enough for them to let her leave the hospital.
The hospital had made the decision, because Prevacid is cheaper, to
always substitute it for Prilosec. This is appropriate for a generic
drug; it is the molecular equivalent of the drug it is substituted for.
But in this case (and probably others) it is not. My suspicion is that
this substitution cost my aunt several extra days in the hospital, a couple
of extra days in the ICU, and esophageal scars that make swallowing more
difficult.
So be careful! --- It might be useful to try out any medication
that your doctor or pharmacist suggests is cheaper and probably just as
effective. If it is just as effective you can save money; if it isn't,
you can make a note of that because if you are hospitalized the hospital is
likely to give you the cheaper substitute.
Kevin G. Rhoads
side effects). If you have IBS or other bowel irritation problems,
then you should watch out for this side effect when taking
Prevacid. It could worsen IBS &c. This is supposedly
not a common side effect.
fitwell
>I've seen a number of postings (not just in a.s.t) that is
>sure xxx symptom is because of yyy disease that the poster
>has or thinks s/he has.
True.
>None of my doctors has suggested that I need a shrink
>because of my problems, although my pcp did ask if I wanted
I spoke with my aunt and she told me of her case, my uncle's and 2
aunt's living outside of Canada who were told the same thing. (Sounds
more to me, personally, of allopathic cop-out. They don't have the
answers therefore it must be psychosomatic (sp??). That's the only
conclusion I have come to.)
btw, the endo didn't outright come out and say this to me but did it
in a round-about fashion. I think that is also what is unacceptable
and, in my opinion, unprofessional of this person. If I ever see this
man again (unlikely), I will request that he not dole out innuendo but
to come right out and say, in a nice way of course, things straight
instead of taking a cowardly way out and just hinting. I abhor
subterfuge of this kind. Give it to me straight.
As you can probably read from the tone of some of my posts I have had
it up to here with doctors. The run-around that one is given! My own
gp is a great doctor in that he usu. listens and takes into account
what I say re symptoms, but I still can't believe how little stock
they place in what their patients say. It's their way or the highway.
I am STILL always referring to the heartrate. I don't feel my low-end
tachycardia is normal (they say it is). Yes, I may be 82-96 (I was
higher and it has come down somewhat but that is still range) at rest
sitting down, but guess what it climbs to when I'm walking along the
road at a normal pace. I reach my old aerobic peak heart rate and I'm
only walking!!
I feel I am an articulate and reasonably intelligent human being, but
I'd hate to think what someone else's position might be and in which
they are put into position of having to rely 100% on someone like this
and with those attitudes! I shudder to think.
>any counseling help to deal with cancer diagnosis (which
>followed a number of other emotional and physical stressful
>events over a short period of time).
Very true. Ruled out in my personal case. I have always been a
person that can relax. Just put a book in front of me that I find
interesting or a good movie and the world could almost fall around my
ears I get that absorbed. Even at my sickest I still could read (when
I wasn't sleeping). Couldn't do much else, but there you are.
>BTW, stress is often relevant to health problems.
True. And it has been proven time and time again. I don't feel that
it is of any significance in my case. Don't suffer unduly from it,
esp. now that I'm at home all the time. You don't suffer from stress
when your mind is constantly occupied with other things. Between
reading, working on computer and doing things around the house that
could be classified under "crafts" (to make house more efficient) no
time for it.
>"fitwell" <NoS...@NoJunkMail.com> wrote in message
>news:3b2f7fb5...@usenet.magma.ca...
>> On 18 Jun 2001 13:27:58 GMT, ada...@aol.com (Adamec)
>wrote:
>>
>> >I don't know if it is a need to blame but I do know if a
>doctor can't figure out what is wrong with you, he will
>often ask you if you are under "stress."
>> >Aha! That must be it!
>>
>>
>> Or how about the endo that patiently explained to me in
>about five different ways that we thyroids, once diagnosed,
>blame every medical problem on the thyroid disease.
>>
>
>