having done it young ...
Celeste
When I started to intensely pursue my TS destiny, I was just a kid really. A
so called friend had outted me at college. I had been taking hormones for
many months. I told her in confidence. She told the entire tight knit
specialty school within my university that she and I attended. She had no
regard for me, my feelings, or those of my SO, who was also in the same
school at the university. My lover and I weathered the rumors. The jerk who
outted me later transferred. She had no regard for the damage she left in
her wake.
The following summer I took some liberal arts classes to get ahead of my
undergrad schedule, and used the opportunity to test out the changes that
had begun to make me look so different. Like so many others, I just wanted
to see if I would be accepted as the person knew I was. It was also my great
watershed for trying to talk. It was hard, in addition to compressing a
semester into six weeks, there I was working through a completely different
set of agendas in summer school.
One of the classes was French and I wasn't doing well. I even got a tutor
from the French department, upon having asked the young doctoral student,
woman professor. As I recall she was a bit of a role model to me in that
time. It was a my first experience being in a place with other people, a
woman. Class met every day for three hours. I had to fight the paranoia ,
something I sense other people here feeling when they write about their
transitions on alt.support.srs. I was relieved as I slowly realized that I
could just be like anyone else, blending in. Isn't that what we all would
want in the ideal?
But it actually took many years to develop real, deep down comfort with
myself. I could feel my second adolescence at that time, an extension of the
adolescence I hadn't yet finished. There were so many things I didn't feel
confident about. But thank goodness I was young and could work through
testing everything out for myself.
Later, during my time away from school, I worked as a graphic artist. I got
a job working at a graphics shop. Our department was all women. I worked in
a room, eight hours a day, with two other women, designing setting type,
doing paste in the days before PCs and DTP. Our boss was an slightly older
obese woman. She was a really good graphic artist. She always seemed a
little distant and unhappy. It was her weight I am sure. The other two women
were both good looking. One was middle class and the other very much a
working class girl trying to do good, her accent and idioms gave her away
more than she understood I'm sure. Working in that place I began to
understand the extent to which other people are mostly concerned with their
own insecurities. The boss was such a good example. Again I was dealing with
two problems, I was a beginner at the graphics craft and my hidden agenda.
Doing RLT, before such a word was invented.
After working there for some months, the working class girl told me that she
resented me when I had started working there. She didn't explain why. She
said I was "different", I only perceived that saw the class difference, race
difference and other social things. One thing she said to me was that when
she first met me, she thought my make-up was "wrong". She told me she had
gotten used to it over time deciding that there must be more than one way to
wear make-up. At the time I didn't wear eyeliner or mascara. I never had
much eyelashes and didn't feel confident doing eyeliner. I wore dark eye
shadow though, oddly punk style and "modern". My coworker told me that she
had gotten used to my makeup style. It seemed like a metaphor for her,
getting to know people from different social backgrounds.
For me it was a time of dealing with a lot of complexities. The place we
worked was a factory with different social casts, the office workers not
mingling with factory floor workers and the like. It was a time when I
began to see clearly the nature of social cast in our society.
It was a summer for me of many experiments. I got my hair permed and cut
short while I worked there, and everyone loved it. It was a time for getting
all sorts of feedback from the world around me, none of them knowing that I
was in total immersion social development mode. I recall feeling exhausted
every day. It was a time when I did little other than work, a little reading
and daily routine stuff. I had left my lover of years before. I was living
in a studio apartment in the city, able to walk about, ride public
transportation, and get used to the world around me.
What must transition be like for people that are older. I imagine that it
would be really hard to try to take a settled life and uproot it in so many
ways. For me it was less about uprooting and more about simply becoming an
adult. That this meant going from growing up a boy to finish growing up to
become a woman seemed more like an added complication than a change. At the
time in people's lives when they search for their place in the world, I was
doing so, but with a few added complexities.
The experience I had radically different from the experiences that people
here write able trying to do this all as adults. It actually seems
frightening to me. It seems far more frightening than what I did. I didn't
have a life yet. There was nothing to lose. My first experiments at job
interviewing were also times when I was dealing with transition. I got my
first adults jobs as a part of transition, during my hiatus from college.
Something that was also different for me than for many here is that if I had
not been able to blend in, to be a woman like any other, I don't think I
would have continued. That is a concept that few seem willing to talk about
here. Today there is a radical, militant air about gender identity. People
today are determined in a way that I don't think I could have been.
It was hard enough when I returned to college and lived out my graduate
school years in an "out" environment. That caused me endless anxiety. It was
clear that I was the local "freak show". People who hadn't known me before
would actually approach me at school and ask me if the rumor was true.
Sometimes people would talk to me about what other people said and thought.
I lived with an intense anxiety, that people here often express. I have
rarely been more relieved than when I finally left school again after my
graduate years and realized how relieved I felt.
I don't know what I would have done if my years of transition had not
"worked". Since things worked out, I didn't have to deal with that
unthinkable situation. There was no social support in those days. I didn't
know anyone else doing what I was doing. In those days transsexuality seemed
like such a rarity, I never expected to encounter anyone in my situation. I
had only my shrink.
I would go to her house in the suburbs and talk. I don't even know if I told
her all of the feelings I felt. There was so much pressure to succeed that
it seemed impossible to explain all of what I felt to her. I really wanted
and needed her approval. Doesn't that taint the entire TS therapist
relationship? Meanwhile I lived for years without really knowing when or if
I would have SRS. I didn't have the money. I was just a young adult trying
to find my place in the world. It was only lucking into a job with insurance
that paid for the surgery, which made SRS possible. I only had that job for
a year and I left after having my surgery. The people at that company never
even knew what medical condition had probably increased its health insurance
premiums for years after that.
So, yes I understand that what most people are going through here is
different from the experiences that shaped my young adult life. A few people
like "Mrs. Peel" are probably having similar experiences. I wish there were
more people around like her. It would feel very gratifying to know that out
there lurking are people like that, people with experiences similar to mine,
who might find some commonality, and maybe a little strengthening in my
words.
Celeste
>Diane wrote:
>I wrote:
>> It would feel very gratifying to know that out there lurking
>>are people like that, people with experiences similar to mine,
>So what am I? Chopped liver??
I don't know. What you are? You would need to describe yourself for someone
to have any idea over usenet.
If you think that you are chopped liver, remember that some people think
pate is a delicacy. (grin)
Mother Choriza
Everybody is special. Everybody is unique. Everybody has the ability to
be happy. All men are my equal, so that I may learn from them. Having
said that, I will now say this:
My goodness Celeste, you are so very, very special. If you are not the
only one to have traveled that special TS highway, I would be so very
surprised. If only the rest of us hunchbacks and football players had
known about the Celeste formula to successful blossoming, we would not
all be here wailing and gnashing our teeth, for the misery we suffer.
Please share with us further your insight as to how the rest of us are
hopelessly doomed to be mistaken for John Wayne for the rest of our sad,
sad lives. I need to know every detail, of every flaw, that you have so
kindly observed. And please, I know you hesitate only briefly, but do
not put off, for even one second, your observations on our pathetic
short-comings.
I know the surgical techniques in the olden days were primitve, so
please do not bore us with the details of the lack of esthetic results
of surgery way, way back then.
I can only hope that you will continue to share with us your wisdom on
fashion, mannerisms, attitude, and style that you have not, as of yet,
been too shy to bestow. Surely we will one day have you named the patron
saint of all who aspire to be the model of TS femininity that you are. I
can only stand in awe, as I see you excrete only cotton candy that has
the aroma of flowers.
Do You Know What I Mean?
Motherly Choriza
Mrs. Peel
In article <6hb04d$dhu$1...@newsd-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, mother...@webtv.net (Mother Choriza) wrote:
%<snip>%
> Do You Know What I Mean?
> Motherly Choriza
My, what a bitter screed.
You really are a MOTHER.
flame off,
-Mrs. Peel, Human torch
San Francisco is a mad city-inhabited for the most part by perfectly
insane people whose women are of a remarkable beauty.
Rudyard Kipling: "American Notes" (1891).
Visit my website: http://www.pressenter.com/~maggieo
JennyAnne
Mother Choriza wrote:
> Everybody is special. Everybody is unique. Everybody has the ability to
> be happy. All men are my equal, so that I may learn from them. Having
> said that, I will now say this:
> My goodness Celeste, you are so very, very special. If you are not the
> only one to have traveled that special TS highway, I would be so very
> surprised.
> for the misery we suffer.
> Please share with us further your insight as to how the rest of us are
> hopelessly doomed to be mistaken for John Wayne
> And please, I know you hesitate only briefly, but do
> not put off, for even one second, your observations on our pathetic
> short-comings.
> Surely we will one day have you named the patron
> saint of all who aspire to be the model of TS femininity that you are. I
> can only stand in awe, as I see you excrete only cotton candy that has
> the aroma of flowers.
> Do You Know What I Mean?
> Motherly Choriza
Mother Choriza, As a long time lurker I understand your just cause for
sarcasm.
But I think it would help to provide information that could put things in
perspective for those like her, so lucky in life.
I have never been able to live a normal life because of fear. I had no
place to turn for support 30 years ago. I tried very hard to get through
college but always stressed out after a period of time because of having to
act like the person I was expected to be by others. I can remember sitting
in class in a male only school thinking that I had no future to look forward
to If I had to dress and act as a male in suit and tie.
Later I had to do the best I could despite horrible things my own mother
said to me about being a failure and wasting family money for education.
That one thing caused me to go into a mode where I just started shutting
things out in order to just start saving the money I knew would be needed
later on. I figured it would be 5 years or so at the time but that was
twenty years ago. I ust now have started to take myself seriously. How many
people know what it would be like to live without any meaningful sexual
relationship for three decades? Or even having a real gender identity to
only two closest friends. At least I have the money put aside and some
retirement funds as well.
This forum has helped me more than anything else I have ever experienced.
Celeste
> Mother Choriza wrote:
> I can only stand in awe, as I see you excrete only cotton
> candy that has the aroma of flowers.
> Do You Know What I Mean?
> Motherly Choriza
I am very sorry that you are so miserable and unhappy. My words were not a
criticism or a put down of you or anyone else. That you are so unable to see
the facts of my life for anything other than their reality, that you must
infer that the facts of my life are somehow a negative reflection on you or
anyone else is only your own lack of self worth, your very own prejudiced,
self righteous, bigoted attitude toward the positive experiences of others.
If a news group like this is only for people to whine about their bad times,
then it isn't worth much. I will continue to write, regardless of what
people like you think.
That you cannot see/hear in my writing what was hard for me, about what I
came to terms with, then you are doomed to wallow in your own misery.
Lisanne A
Hi Celeste,
I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but I do believe that most
people, rather than resent you for having the courage and detremination to have
been able to transition at a younger age, respect you for so doing.
Whatever choices we make, they are ours to make, or to delay. All of us
should recognize that we have done things in the only way that we could have,
and, becoming aware in that fashion, we should have no need for jealousy of
others. Were we able to have done thing as you did, we would have. Therefore, I
have nothing but admiration and respect for you, as well as the knowledge that
I did things at the time that I was ready to do so. Therefore, I am at peace
with myself as well.
Love and Big hugs
Lisanne
lisa...@aol.com
lisa...@aol.com
"Listening is easy. Acting on what you hear is hard work"
Celeste
Hi Shy:
You did not make a fool of yourself. Your article was very thoughtful. Its
okay that you can't see the future. When I was your age I had no idea of
what my future would be like. My life today doesn't match what I imagined
then either. Its a nice life, but its different than what I imagined then,
and there are still goals I have yet to attain.
If you are a transsexual, it might not be important to understand how you
are going to achieve your goals in that regard. I know that I certainly
didn't when I was your age. I just started taking hormones on my own. That
was one of my first steps. For someone like you, may I suggest that the
first thing to do is find a therapist who has experience working with
transsexuals?
Once you are ready, if you become ready, that therapist can probably help
you find a physician to prescribe estrogens and anti-androgens for you. You
are at a critical age in your life. If your body still hasn't been too
damaged by testosterone, if your bone growth plates haven't fused shut, you
might still have a few critical years in which to start hormones and have
miraculous results.
You shouldn't have to move out of your parents house to see a therapist or
even start hormones. It might be better to wait to tell your parents about
your feelings after you start hormones. It might help prevent them from
sabotaging your efforts, if there is any possibility of that problem.
Anyway, have courage. Take steps, even the smallest steps. The little steps
you take today can accumulate on the road toward resolving issues that have
probably been with you since your first memories. Small steps accumulate
into giant leaps with time.
kari c
Thanks for sharing all that Celeste. I adjusted my life during college as
well, perhaps to different directions, degrees. Overall, the whole experience
to date, personal challenges included, have been part of the complete me, the
one I seek to tune with the earth.
peace always,
kari
kari c
> That you cannot see/hear in my writing what was hard for me, about what I
> came to terms with, then you are doomed to wallow in your own misery.
That all we are is all we were, and added to a little emphasized social
relearning. Seeking inner balance is the most rewarding thing i ever did in
this life. I didn't know who I was until this, and it has been a growth
process of daily learning and hindsight realizations.
kari c
an...@moremusic.com wrote:
> I resisted posting to USENET for over 5 years, having only participated on
> Fido's GENDER echo many years ago (hello Ms. Kari) but there is always a
> first... =)
d.h.k.d. (?)
> I live in the Toronto area, I started pursuing transition at 18, but due to a
> number of factors (the Clarke being the major one) I didn't start hormones
> until 21 when I found a sympathetic GP. I went full time a few years later
> and had surgery with Dr. Schrang last summer at 29.
Fantastic. It must have been fulfilling in retrospect? /
> I lead a good life now with a great career (melodramatic, but great) and
> wonderfully supportive parents and friends.
That always helps.
> I was 15 when I first started to "research" TSism in the public and medical
> libraries in Toronto... I came out to a number of female friends during HS and
> most of them kept a good secret. We still get together some 14-15 years later.
I sometimes wonder if my life would be much different had I pursued that when I
was 15 -- I had been stealing premarins from my mother, and reading up what I
could - and yet I had a real fear of what I was doing... I couldn't stand the
thought of what I perceived myself to be. i think I still fight this to some
degree, but didn't return to the homonally balanced life until I was 26. Who
knows, though... my feeling is that that with my penchant of really doing
something all-out, once I commit to it, I may have become a promiscuous wench if I
had allowed myself to open up back then. 10 years may have saved my life - it's
not like I was low-risk as it was.
> Rumours suck!
In some experiences, they undermine to a degree of uncontrollable madness.
> It turned out that after 5 years on hormones, I was the last person to know
> that I had already been full time in all ways but conscious presentation and
> name.
Isn't that always the way? We are always the last person they tell - then when
you finally comeout, everyone just says, oh well that's a releif... we thought we
had been being rude to you all this time and didn't know it.
k'd
kari c
Hi Erin -
Shy Mute wrote:
> Umm I've been reading post to this newsgroup since my senior year in high
> school. I'm currently a lost college freshman in nyc. This is my first post to
> any newsgroup, so I'm probably going to make a fool out of myself now. I can
> most definitely relate to the original author of the thread. I'm in the same
> position with college and all. Although I'm not all together yet. My mind is
> going in a million directions. I really don't know what to do, it feels like
> I'm just drifting away.
> I guess it's due to the fact that I still live at home with my parents.
> Although I'm working on changing that. I thought that when I reached 18 which
> I'm now .. everything would change. I guess that's just wishful thinking on my
> account. It seems that when ever I take a step foward in life, I always get
> pused back.. Everybody who
> I happen to come across online tells me that I should have some plan for the
> future ..but I can't even see tomorrow
>
The best plan, imo, is on Celeste's closing , pursue happiness, always.... great
stuff.
by the way, your post was just fine. Welcome fellow netizen, hail the cyber-gods,
retromoderators, and the phone companies.
//kari
> -ShyMute/Erin-
--
------------------------------------------------
Critical Mass Artplosion
http://www.artplosion.com
wall art - body art - brain art - spirit art
------------------------------------------------
Shy Mute
Umm I've been reading post to this newsgroup since my senior year in high
school. I'm currently a lost college freshman in nyc. This is my first post to
any newsgroup, so I'm probably going to make a fool out of myself now. I can
most definitely relate to the original author of the thread. I'm in the same
position with college and all. Although I'm not all together yet. My mind is
going in a million directions. I really don't know what to do, it feels like
I'm just drifting away.
I guess it's due to the fact that I still live at home with my parents.
Although I'm working on changing that. I thought that when I reached 18 which
I'm now .. everything would change. I guess that's just wishful thinking on my
account. It seems that when ever I take a step foward in life, I always get
pused back.. Everybody who
I happen to come across online tells me that I should have some plan for the
future ..but I can't even see tomorrow
-ShyMute/Erin-
kari c
> completely (except for keeping contact with some friends in it) because I
> had become overwhelmed and greatly stressed out. After a few weeks, it was
> evident that I still had this need to give back, so I returned to some of
> the places, but have been trying to keep my active participation to a much
> lower level than before.
I left a while back just because I was into other things. There is this need
to try to understand myself, though, and part of it is in understanding
others. Only through communication can this be done, and that's one of the
reasons I am always learning new things about my inner workings, and have tried
to address in *myself* that which I find offensive in others.
annie
>The experience I had radically different from the experiences that people
>here write able trying to do this all as adults. It actually seems
>frightening to me. It seems far more frightening than what I did. I didn't
>have a life yet. There was nothing to lose. My first experiments at job
>interviewing were also times when I was dealing with transition. I got my
>first adults jobs as a part of transition, during my hiatus from college.
I try not to post around here too much, because of the flamers. It's not a
pretty place when the sour grapes and mental cases decide to latch on......
What you say above rang very true Celeste, although my own paranoia and fear
of parental disapproval delayed my transtion till I was 24.
>Something that was also different for me than for many here is that if I
had
>not been able to blend in, to be a woman like any other, I don't think I
>would have continued. That is a concept that few seem willing to talk about
>here.
Or else stealth TSs are regarded as "cowards" or "liars". Happens to come
most from people who pass the least.
>So, yes I understand that what most people are going through here is
>different from the experiences that shaped my young adult life. A few
people
>like "Mrs. Peel" are probably having similar experiences. I wish there were
>more people around like her. It would feel very gratifying to know that out
>there lurking are people like that, people with experiences similar to
mine,
>who might find some commonality, and maybe a little strengthening in my
>words.
>
The majority of TSs undergoing treatment are in the over 40's age range. The
support services are geared up for just that. UK groups such as Mermaids are
aiming to provide a support system for young and teenage TSs. Such a group
would have seemed like heaven in a childhood so full of emotional pain. I
don't think anyone other than young TSs can understand what it feels like
for a gender crisies to manifest itself so early in life. It started in me
at age 4, and got steadily more intense as I got older. My secondary school
years were hell. No-one was there to help.
Various medical factors conspired in my favour to make transition much much
easier then I could ever have imagined, but I still regret those lost years
when I COULD and WOULD have transtioned at 12 years old, when the gender
crisis was at its peak, and I KNEW I was facing 5 years of "boyhood", and
mental torture ahead.
Kira D. Triea
annie (n...@email.please) wrote:
+----
| The majority of TSs undergoing treatment are in the over 40's age range. The
| support services are geared up for just that. UK groups such as Mermaids are
| aiming to provide a support system for young and teenage TSs. Such a group
| would have seemed like heaven in a childhood so full of emotional pain. I
| don't think anyone other than young TSs can understand what it feels like
| for a gender crisies to manifest itself so early in life. It started in me
| at age 4, and got steadily more intense as I got older. My secondary school
| years were hell. No-one was there to help.
+----
It seems to me that most of the rhetoric about (m2f) transexuality is
centered about this "man becomes a woman" mythology. The health care
system *seems* set up to help TSs who have had established lives as
*men*. But while this may actually be a more statistically common type
of TS person, there are obviousely other people who are TS too and
need help even though they are "outside" the statistical model.
Of course, models of TS-ity will conform to majority culture
perceptions, and that means that "men" will "change into"
"women"... etc. And this is part of the stigmatization of
transexuals. My TS friend Stephanie tells me that she has told people
she used to be a boy... and their reaction is exactly the same as when
I have done this. It is "but you are different". She is very careful
to respect my experience and politics but I myself recognize the
commomality of our history as being a kind of "perceptual
intersexuality". In other words, it is a meaningless statement
because it it is a social statement which is self-contradictory. You
can't *be* a *boy* unless you *are* a *boy*. This applies both to XX
persons like myself and XY persons like Steph. We lived in the same
city, went to the same hospital and had the same surgeon ferchriseake
at very much the same age. We are *both* rarities though... I had
surgery very late in the IS scale of things at early puberty... she
had surgery *very* early in the TS scale of things. I just very much
feel that there is a lesson here.
I am talking about a certain type of person here who goes through what
I call an "advantageous transition", at puberty. It is just more
practical to be identified as a female person in other words. I am an
XX person with functioning ovaries... though I was born intersexed
because of my exposure to progesterone and I tried living as a boy in
my 20's. It pretty much didn't help. When I discovered my sexuality I
also discovered my identity. It was nice. :-)
Kiira
kari c
annie wrote:
> I try not to post around here too much, because of the flamers. It's not a
> pretty place when the sour grapes and mental cases decide to latch on......
>
lol oh that's a sweet opener. Very pleasant, really.
Karen Elizabeth A.
annie <n...@email.please> wrote:
> I
> don't think anyone other than young TSs can understand what it feels like
> for a gender crisies to manifest itself so early in life. It started in me
> at age 4, and got steadily more intense as I got older.
Err - why do you say that? It was an issue for me from at least 4 as
well (I know I had not started school yet and I went to kindergarten)
and continued intensifing with time too. When I was in the seventh grade
I was sneaking out of the house dressed because I *HAD* to show the the
world I was a girl... and remember that as in the mid - 1960's and I was
in a working poor single parent family. It was a crazy thing to do
considering that even then I was not passable but I was driven so
strongly that the dangers never even occured to me (we also lived in one
of the worst sections of the city).
The difference between us (besides the physical) back then is that I
also had some other pretty difficult non-gender related stuff going on
at home as well (mother was severly alcoholic and self distructing in
front of our eyes and taking my brother with her. There I was a kid in
grammer school and I was trying to hold everything togther. I lived with
a *LOT* of uglyness). The two together overwhealmed my coping ability
and shut me down emotionaly till I was in my 30's - when I started
gradually recovering (I still have not completely). Throw in the fact
that by the 9th grade I was almost at my full adult height and built
like a bear... I lost all fate in things that were important to me work
out. None had and it was obvious that they would not (my mother
eventually, drank herself to death, my bother dies of AIDS from IV drug
use and I wound up bigger then most men in build and an extreme loner)
Don't assume that those that did not transition young did not have
intense gender crises when young and can't understand what that means -
It's not always true. I'm sure I can't be unique in that respect -
though I've never met anyone else in 3D who related having that kind of
intense gender dysphoria when young who did not transition fairly young
as well. Even so, life is too complicated for simplistic generalizations
like that to be true.
> It's not a
> pretty place when the sour grapes and mental cases decide to latch on......
Sour Grapes? No I'm happy for those who have not had to go through what
I'm going through but the unaviodable comparions one makes can't help
but hurt. I'm human and I have emotions (now) and I'm in a particularly
down period (again). I once again let myself have a bit of hope (change
of HRT regamine) and it looks like it may have beem misplaced again
after some intial positive results.
I'm not a mental case , as those who know me well in 3D can attest but I
am hurting a whole lot and that has probably caused me to lose
perspective on some things.
Karen A.
annie
>> I try not to post around here too much, because of the flamers. It's not
a
>> pretty place when the sour grapes and mental cases decide to latch
on......
>>
>
>
So it's not true then?????
I was referring to the minority, and because it happens to be true.
No offence intended to genuine people.
annie
>It seems to me that most of the rhetoric about (m2f) transexuality is
>centered about this "man becomes a woman" mythology. The health care
>system *seems* set up to help TSs who have had established lives as
>*men*.
Precisely. I actively avoided ever becoming a "man".
>transexuals. My TS friend Stephanie tells me that she has told people
>she used to be a boy... and their reaction is exactly the same as when
>I have done this. It is "but you are different".
Yes, again that's what people say to me. I might be different in some
genetic ways, but in the eyes of the medical people and the world in
general, I'm still a TS, and, to it's extremity.. "a man".
> You
>can't *be* a *boy* unless you *are* a *boy*. This applies both to XX
>persons like myself and XY persons like Steph.
I always say that "I was born and brought up as a boy". I never say "man".
I'm also XXY chromosome.
> When I discovered my sexuality I
>also discovered my identity. It was nice. :-)
I didn't discover my sexuality until my gender role was established
correctly.
kari c
annie wrote:
> >lol oh that's a sweet opener. Very pleasant, really.
>
> So it's not true then?????
No, it is true - probably to the degree you stated in your response.
> I was referring to the minority, and because it happens to be true.
>
> No offence intended to genuine people.
None taken here.
As a bonafide weirdo-magnet, I can relate... only with me, it's dating, not
internet (I have to stop dating other writers...)
kari
Celeste
>Nicole Hamilton wrote:
>
>There were a lot of reasons I failed in my first attempt, but certainly a
>fear I'd never look even minimally acceptable (to me!) was in there. Last
>time, 20 years ago in Galveston, TX, they would not start HRT 'till you'd
>been in RLT for 6 months, living as a man in a dress. That gave no chance
>to see what hormones might do. Also, I remember getting so depressed that
>electrolysis was going so slowly then. I didn't think my face would ever
>be cleared (it wasn't!) and I remember trying, with dismal results, to
>bleach, then shave the hair on my arms. <shudder!> (Okay, Karen, now you
>know why I'm such an electrolysis junkie now.)
>
That people would require RLT without HRT is a cruel and unspeakable
practice by a medical community whose interests, other than the surgeons
themselves, at truly with us I think. Shrinks are megalomanical by their
nature. It is only a rare few who resist the tyranny of their absolute rule.
Celeste
Interestingly, at almost any age, the miracle of estradiol, is indeed the
fountain of youth. There have been articles written about this in the
mainstream press. If only the world at large could see that post SRS people
have proven to them a miracle, in taking estrogen for so long as we do, we
demonstrate to the world in general that estrogen has great powers of
physical preservation. It is menopause, and only starting HRT too late, that
plaques many women with the signs of aging before they can forestall the
demon of time and maintain the youthful glow that estrogen pipes through our
blood vessels.
Karen Elizabeth A.
Shh! Secret Squirrel <spa...@farkle.com> wrote:
> "You're as young as you feel" has never been truer. I'm 40, look 30,
> and feel 25.
While I may complain about my size and lack of HRT results blow the
neck, the changes that have occured above the neck in the last two
months on the estradiol valerate are subtle but amazing - particularly
in comaparion to my 2+ years on orals. I'm 42 and today I noticed my
wife staring at my face an hour ago. When I asked what she was looking
at and she told me that I have a pretty face of a woman in her mid 30's
and that I looked (facially only) better then her! (and believe me is is
NOT trying to spare my feelings).
I think we almost universally look younger then our chronological age...
maybe it's nature's way of compensating us at least a little for having
to go through all this?
> And I really do feel that my life is just getting
> started. This *is* a 2nd adolescence, and one that I'm GLAD to be
> going through.
I very much felt that way when I transitioned. I felt like for the first
time in my life In had a future worth living, It was an exhilarting
experience. The first few months, before reality set in, are something I
will always treasure. It was the first time I was ever really happy.
> Odd to be a teenager at my advanced age. An advantage of doing it
> young is that there's more slack for being awkward -- and Awkward is
> what adolescence is all about... oh well, what the hell :)
Could it be I'm just a moody teenager? ;-)
- Karen A.
Nicole Hamilton
Shh! Secret Squirrel <spa...@farkle.com> wrote in article
<353a63e6...@news.newsguy.com>...
> "You're as young as you feel" has never been truer. I'm 40, look 30,
> started. This *is* a 2nd adolescence, and one that I'm GLAD to be
> going through.
The same thing is happening to me. I'm 47 but just yesterday, someone was
trying to guess my age, telling me I had to be about 35. He "knew" I had
to be about that old because he knew my oldest boy is almost 12 so I
couldn't be younger than about that.
Well, I don't really think I look 35 except maybe on a very good day. (A
moonless night?) Still, it does make me feel good and validates some of
what I see lately in the mirror, which is that my skin seems to get
smoother and clearer every day and that, as my cheeks fill in, I think I
don't look all that bad anymore. Thank goodness for estrogen and
electrolysis, a girl's best friends!
> My first attempt at transition (at 20), aborted...
Good Lord! You also?! You know I tried and failed to transition 20 years
ago, too, don't you?
> For me, fear that it *wouldn't* work out delayed my second, successful
> attempt. I was afraid I would look like a big FREAK ala John Lithgow
> in "Garp" --- geez, was there EVER a more negative, pathetic image to
> plant in our collective heads?
There were a lot of reasons I failed in my first attempt, but certainly a
fear I'd never look even minimally acceptable (to me!) was in there. Last
time, 20 years ago in Galveston, TX, they would not start HRT 'till you'd
been in RLT for 6 months, living as a man in a dress. That gave no chance
to see what hormones might do. Also, I remember getting so depressed that
electrolysis was going so slowly then. I didn't think my face would ever
be cleared (it wasn't!) and I remember trying, with dismal results, to
bleach, then shave the hair on my arms. <shudder!> (Okay, Karen, now you
know why I'm such an electrolysis junkie now.)
> What I had to do was overcome that fear; once I reached the point
> where I didn't care about being all freaky and such, I was able to
> transition. And it turns out my fear was unjustified.
Yeah, that's where I'm getting to also. Today I was off to the MIT Flea
Market. (To anyone who lives in the Greater Boston area and doesn't know
about the MIT Flea, well, you should, but that's another story.) I was
standing in line to buy a hot dog and as I stood there, watching the vendor
acknowledge each customer with a polite, "Thank you, sir" or "Thank you,
ma'am", it occurred to me that a change had happened to me recently and I
hadn't even noticed it. People don't say "sir" to me anymore. They don't
say "ma'am" yet, but they don't say "sir". They don't know what to say so
they just don't say anything. Sure enough, when my turn came, he just
said, "thank you," no "sir," no "ma'am."
Now I'm paying more attention. And I think it's true. Things have changed
in the last month. Same thing happened this afternoon when I went in to
buy some bagels. Everyone else was consistently getting addressed in their
gender. When it came to me, they weren't sure.
In the long run, I hope for better than that people can't guess what I am.
I want them to conclude consistently that I'm female. But this is
encouraging that things can change for the better.
> Why? To me, a therapist is supposed to be someone who is pretty darn
> sane, and knows a lot about different ways of being un-sane (and how
> to avoid them :). You transition, you want to keep your feet on the
> ground, you want a reality check (probably more than anything else,
> that's what my therapist does for me). And yes if your therapist is a
> woman you want some approval, some sign that you're becoming the sort
> of woman that somebody you trust would like.
Same here. These last 7 weeks since my wife got me thrown out of the
house, my therapist was someone who lived through it with me. I knew she
cared. That helped a lot. And like you, I really value her encouragement
that I'm becoming a woman we both like.
And, okay, I admit, I love her taste in clothes. If I looked that good,
that's how I'd dress. :-)
Btw, my therapist and I decided I am now officially in RLT. We decided it
started on February 21. :-) That's the day after my wife threw me out, the
day I bought some women's jeans and underwear and promised myself I was
never buying guy clothes again. Also, I am soon to be Nicki legally! My
attorney should be filing for a name change for me this week.
Some things about transition are just really, really good.
--Nicki Hamilton
Mrs. Peel
I dunno, I "pass" for at least a decade younger than I am at the
Puffcave.......
de-der-de-der--de-der-de-der-BATMAN!
-Mrs. Peel
*(:)8]<=
In article <ghostv'_nospam_'-2004981...@slsyd95p05.ozemail.com.au>,
ghostv'_nospam_'@ozemail.com.au (Julie Simpson) wrote:
>In article <353a63e6...@news.newsguy.com>, spa...@farkle.com (Shh!
>Secret Squirrel) wrote:
>
>> "You're as young as you feel" has never been truer. I'm 40, look 30,
>> and feel 25.
>
>Ah, finally, a good reason _not_ to transition young! ;) I've heard many
>ts's say upon transitioning late that they look about 10 years younger
>than they are. Sadly, those of us who transitioned young tend to look
>exactly as old as we are. I'm 37, and I look it <sigh>. Not that it's so
>terrible, but think of what I could have saved on Clarins!
>
>Cheers
>
>Julie
Karen Elizabeth A.
Nicole Hamilton <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
> I didn't think my face would ever
> be cleared (it wasn't!) and I remember trying, with dismal results, to
> bleach, then shave the hair on my arms. <shudder!> (Okay, Karen, now you
> know why I'm such an electrolysis junkie now.)
What do you think I read everything you post! <g>
You should have seen some of the chenmical burns I got from leaving Nair
on too long!!
> Yeah, that's where I'm getting to also. Today I was off to the MIT Flea
> Market. (To anyone who lives in the Greater Boston area and doesn't know
> about the MIT Flea, well, you should, but that's another story.)
Actually even though I work accross the street from MIT I don't. If I
forget to ask tell me next time I see you.
> In the long run, I hope for better than that people can't guess what I am.
> I want them to conclude consistently that I'm female. But this is
> encouraging that things can change for the better.
It helps. i rember when I was taken as a woman before transition in male
mode. The mam's and ladies (when I was with my wife ) were very nice. It
made my mother-in-law uncomfortable a few times as well.
> Same here. These last 7 weeks since my wife got me thrown out of the
> house, my therapist was someone who lived through it with me. > I knew she
> cared. That helped a lot.
Has it really only been seven weeks? I'm glad she was there for you -
knowing the state you were in at the time it all happened.
> Also, I am soon to be Nicki legally! My
> attorney should be filing for a name change for me this week.
When the day comes you will remember it forever...
When I had my court date I was walking on air. When I left the
Middlesex County couthouse in Cambridge I felt like my life was really
starting for the first time. On that day, believe it or not, nothing
could bring me down. I did not come down for three months - even Chris
thought I had finnaly beaten the black cloud I was under so much of the
time once and for all.
> Some things about transition are just really, really good.
I hope it all works out well for for you. With a little luck with HRT
(and being a 6/8) I think you will get to the point before too long when
you start hearing the mam's - and a few miss'es too ;-) !
Good Luck. Hope to see you next of week.
Take Care,
-Karen A.
Nicole Hamilton
Karen Elizabeth A. <k...@world.std.com> wrote in article
<1998041922...@ppp0a003.std.com>...
> What do you think I read everything you post! <g>
Hey! I read all your posts! And that's way more than mine! :-)
--Nicki Hamilton
Celeste
My magical estrogen dose is one quarter of a 0.5 mg scored tablet of Estinyl
daily. It is a great solution that only costs about $100.00 a year. I cut
the tablets with an x-acto knife. They don't have to exact really though.
Dale Elisabeth A.
"Nicole Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> writes:
> [...] I was
> standing in line to buy a hot dog and as I stood there, watching the vendor
> acknowledge each customer with a polite, "Thank you, sir" or "Thank you,
> ma'am", it occurred to me that a change had happened to me recently and I
> hadn't even noticed it. People don't say "sir" to me anymore. They don't
> say "ma'am" yet, but they don't say "sir". They don't know what to say so
> they just don't say anything. Sure enough, when my turn came, he just
> said, "thank you," no "sir," no "ma'am."
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I don't think this necessarily means
anything. People don't _always_ use gender attributions with everyone
they deal with.
For a long time I was getting the same kind of treatment and dared to
let myself hope that I was getting into androgyny territory. Then
about two months ago people started sirring me again. Since then I've
noticed that a lot of the sirs are spoken in a really nasty tone of
voice, as if people are offended that someone who is "obviously a man"
would dare to present in an androgynous fashion (my hair is
unmistakably femmy in style).
Oh, and I've been on HRT for over 9 months. As Karen knows, sometimes
the 'mones just don't do much to change your appearance. YMMV as always.
- Dale
Sincere replies only to chimera "at" home "dot" com. The sender of any
UCE to this address will be billed at the rate of U.S. $100/kilobyte.
Nicole Hamilton
> ...then "Nicole Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
> > People don't say "sir" to me anymore. They don't
> >say "ma'am" yet, but they don't say "sir". They don't know what to say
so
> >they just don't say anything. Sure enough, when my turn came, he just
> >said, "thank you," no "sir," no "ma'am."
>
> transition that I wasn't presenting myself as unambiguously Woman as I
> thought, and all I had to do was femme things up just a wee bit more
> to be consistantly "ma'amed". YMMV, but it's worth a try.
As Karen will attest, it's just androgynous stuff, jeans, tee shirts and
sweatshirts and no other visual cues, not even a purse. Lately, I've
started wearing a tiny bit of eye makeup, but honestly, not enough so most
people would notice, I think. (Karen, did you notice? You saw me just
this last week.) But my hair (at 47, I still have it! :-) is very long,
dark and very curly, recently cut from a shaggy mess to all one length,
rather like Nurse Carol Hathaway's character on ER and I've recently gotten
new glasses which my optician promises are "just right for what I have in
mind," as he puts it. At 5'9" and 140# (down from 178 in January 1997), I
think I was lucky that if I had to be stuck with a male body, at least it
wasn't a bad one for the purpose.
But the biggest change I see lately, when I look at myself in the mirror,
is that things are just different. I like what I see finally. My cheeks
are filling in. They aren't so hollow and sunken or slab-like anymore. My
skin is smoother. The pores are smaller. The beard is mostly gone and I
don't have that severely bruised look from the ongoing electrolysis
anymore. I don't kid myself that I really look female yet, but I think it
looks more believable (to me, anyway) that one day I will, especially as
the hormones continue to work their magic and as I begin, as you suggest,
to shift to just a tiny bit more feminine presentation.
(The joke is that through this divorce stuff going on and with my
transition in center stage, my therapist and I kept getting asked how will
I dress a year from now, as if that was really important. We kept
answering, the truth really, that it won't be much different. I grew up in
a small town, I live a very unstructured, casual lifestyle. So I don't
expect people will see me really dressed up all that much. But I agree
with a comment from someone in my support group that a year from now, maybe
one of my sweatshirts will be pink. :-)
--
--Nicki Hamilton
Karen A.
Nicole Hamilton <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
> Hey! I read all your posts! And that's way more than mine! :-)
Only when I'm down. Hey if get it all out here the you don'y have to
listen to it at Jen's! I'm sure every there appreciate that! ;-)
-Karen A.
Karen A.
Celeste <cele...@usa.net> wrote:
> That people would require RLT without HRT is a cruel and unspeakable
> practice by a medical community whose interests, other than the surgeons
> themselves, at truly with us I think. Shrinks are megalomanical by their
> nature. It is only a rare few who resist the tyranny of their absolute rule.
My therpist prefers that one starts hormones close to the time of
transition - either shortly before or concurrent with (though it's not a
hard and fast rule - I was on HRT for 20 months before RLT though I had
originally planed on transitiong 1.5 years earlier). I don't think she
is cruel or on a pwer trip...
For some HRT makes profound changes - and sometimes quickly. Her
reasoning, I think, is that she does not want people to think that HRT
made them a woman. She wants them to know it comes from inside and not
from a prescription bottle.
I'm not sure I agree that's how it should be so - particularly with
person who are built like me. Of course in my case, it truely did not
make a difference because of ineffective HRT so I can't judge from
personal experience but I can see her point. If it becomes easier to
transition then not because of HRT effects on looks, what does that say
about if the person is making the right decision? Can some be "forced"
into it by circumstances? For those for whom transition is the right
decsion in the long run that awarkward 6 month period or so will not
mean much. For those for whom it is wrong (transition is not always the
best choice for a gender dysphoric person - particularly if they are not
really TS) it can be a life safer saver.
When you really examine these issues things are not so simple and qood
arguments can be made on both sides.
-KAren A.
Karen A.
Nicole Hamilton <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
> As Karen will attest, it's just androgynous stuff, jeans, tee shirts and
> sweatshirts and no other visual cues, not even a purse.
Quite true - except for the ength of your hair. These days few men wear
it that long.
> Lately, I've
> started wearing a tiny bit of eye makeup, but honestly, not enough so most
> people would notice, I think. (Karen, did you notice? You saw me just
> this last week.)
Nope I did not - of course you didn't comment spontaneously on my change
of hair color either <g>.
-Karen A.
Mother Choriza
Ok!
Let me say again: All people are special. All people are unique. All
people are capable of happiness. All men are equal so that I may learn
from them. Having said that...
Celeste, you have missed the meaning of what I have said. So...
<she goes to the wood pile and selects a rather large hunk of 2 x 4.
Tossing it in her hand, she tests it for the pupose at hand>
Celeste. what I wanted to convey was a message of your attitute. We
have had a person here who belived hir self to be the messiah for all
TSs. We have pretty much kick her butt out for seeming to know what is
best for us. We also had some bible thumper here telling us he knew what
was best for us TSs; he no longer is here. Now, we have you giving us
your opinion on every topic, as to how best be TSs. As a role model of
my mine said, "we don't need another hero."
She have told us how to dress, act, how to transition, who our friends
should be, when we should transitition, how pityful our lives are, how
there is no one who compares to your difinitive journey through TSism.
You have explained how Caucasins don't make good TSs. You have told us
how if we do not transition when you did we will surely not be succesful
in fitting into the general population. In short you have told every one
that if we are not like you then our cchances of happiness are slim. And
if we do exactly as you our chances are assured.
Now I am telling you, you are wrong. We all take different paths
through life. We may all start from the same place, and we all are
rushing to the grave; but for you to even suggest that we should follow
your path, is very presumptious of you. I might even say that your
thoughts of some how being the supreme TS, are at the least narssistic,
and maybe even psychotic.
Except for the two above mentioned individuals, every person here has
given their own thoughts and relayed their own experiences. You, on the
other hand are continuelly giving out sage like advice, as if you know
whats best for us. The only difference between the TG guru, the bible
thumper, and you, is they offer us the hope that by following them, we
can be improved. You are, on the other hand, condeming us to hopless
life of ogre like existience, due to our' testosterone poisioning'.
You want to be real? I asked around. You ain't all that. You ain't the
most beautiful woman going. You aint 100% unreadable. And you ain't all
that happy.
Why don't you take a clue from some of the more influential people in
the group. Let us know about YOUR expierences. Do not judge the people
who are on a different path than yours. And let each of us decide what
is right for ourselves.
Now do you understand what I am saying?
Kindly Ol' Mother Choriza
Celeste
I smile and turn the other cheek. You only show your envy, your own
transference issues, your own shadows and complexes, when you try to project
your insecurities onto me. To try to turn my account of the hard work it
took me to transition into an ego trip is only your twisted, projective and
incorrect interpretations. You are merely showing that you are unhappy soul.
I wish you all the luck in the world seeking your happiness. It appears that
you are a tortured, envious, miserably person. I don't begrudge you any
unkindness. Good luck in your pursuits. We shall be bopping along having a
good time.
>>
Why don't you take a clue from some of the more influential people in
the group. Let us know about YOUR experiences. Do not judge the people
who are on a different path than yours. And let each of us decide what
is right for ourselves.
>>
I am very sorry that you are having the emotional problems that seem to
plague your life. When you take a person who writes of her own personal
experiences in a non-judgmental way, misinterpret and read into them your
own paranoid delusions, we can only pity you and hope that you can afford
the therapy bill.
Meanwhile, as co-founder of this news group, as someone who tries
imperfectly to set a decent example, never thinking that I am in any way
perfect at what I do, I shall politely shun you, acknowledge your presence
and move on to those who desire to engage in constructive discussion. Many
of the people who post here know me personally. I will trust their judgment
about my intentions. I don't know you at all, nor you me. That you need to
inappropriately take out your own unhappiness on someone like me, someone
who gave you this forum to post in the first place, I will try not to take
personally and move on, knowing that what I have done has been in the
supportive interest of those looking for and able to recognize
supportiveness when they read it.
Nicole Hamilton
Karen A. <k...@world.std.com> wrote in article
<19980420185...@ppp0a010.std.com>...
> Nicole Hamilton <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
>
> > As Karen will attest, it's just androgynous stuff, jeans, tee shirts
and
> > sweatshirts and no other visual cues, not even a purse.
> Quite true - except for the ength of your hair. These days few men wear
> it that long.
Actually, truth be told, few women my age wear it that long. But I never
had a chance when I was young to have really long hair (at least, not
without the fear!, even during the 60s, that someone might guess I was a
girl inside) so I make up for it now.
> > Lately, I've
> > started wearing a tiny bit of eye makeup, but honestly, not enough so
most
> > people would notice, I think. (Karen, did you notice? You saw me just
> > this last week.)
> Nope I did not - of course you didn't comment spontaneously on my change
> of hair color either <g>.
And, on reflection, I did want to say that purple with green highlights
really did work better than I think most of us would ever have guessed!
(Before anyone takes me seriously, I should confess I'm just being silly.
Karen really went from a dark blonde to an auburn blonde. The result is
very attractive, much richer looking but still a subtle change that easily
matches her coloring.)
--
--Nicki Hamilton
Celeste
Interesting, while we are being amused,
Lets see, we follow the rabbit down a hole, meet a caterpillar smoking a
hooka, take one pill to make shorter and another to make us tall, then we
jump through the looking glass.
>>Shrinks are megalomanical by their
>>nature. It is only a rare few who resist the tyranny of their absolute
rule.
Actually though, I formed the sentence above poorly. I meant to say:
It is only a rare few Psyrinks who resist the tyranny of their absolute
rule. This is of course meant to give the benefit of the doubt to a few
kind souls.
In any event, I have never been much for conspiracies. It is much easier to
believe institutionalized behavior and conformity. It is far more random,
does not depend on, any grand poohabs or star chamber honchos and much more
related to the snowball effects of social convention.
>che...@cruzio.com wrote:
> Man! I could use a hit that stuff myself right now.
>
> Take a hit from the bhang and I'll tell you all about it...
>
Anna
n...@email.please (annie) replied:
> The majority of TSs undergoing treatment are in the over 40's age range. The
> support services are geared up for just that. UK groups such as Mermaids are
> aiming to provide a support system for young and teenage TSs. Such a group
> don't think anyone other than young TSs can understand what it feels like
> for a gender crisies to manifest itself so early in life. It started in me
> years were hell. No-one was there to help.
>
> easier then I could ever have imagined, but I still regret those lost years
> when I COULD and WOULD have transtioned at 12 years old, when the gender
> crisis was at its peak, and I KNEW I was facing 5 years of "boyhood", and
> mental torture ahead.
Exactly what I have been trying to argue in the thread 'TS & age'! This
is exactly what I recall and want to help avoid for present and future
kids.
Where is the Mermaids group? I'm in the UK and wonder what I might
do to help. Are there any similar groups elsewhere?
Anna
Email arrives at this anonymous address.
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Anna
nospam....@usa.net (Celeste) posted:
> Something that was also different for me than for many here is that if I had
> not been able to blend in, to be a woman like any other, I don't think I
> would have continued. That is a concept that few seem willing to talk about
> today are determined in a way that I don't think I could have been.
I too identify with this thought. The concern that I might not blend in
was perhaps my greatest anxiety, and fear. I too hate to think what
would have happened if that had not been possible. There was nothing
else that fitted.
In fact I vividly recall that, the first time I met with the gatekeeper
psychiatrist, he ended the (marathon) session by telling me that he
thought I would make it. When I asked him to be clearer he told me that
I would become a woman. On my way back to the rail station I found
myself thinking that at last I knew what I was; that I wasn't insane,
and that I wasn't a closet drag-queen or a transvestite. Despite the
huge obstacles which I knew were ahead, it was the knowledge that this
hugely impressive consultant believed that I would blend-in that made me
very, very happy.
Not that I have anything against other forms of transgenderism, or even
had back then (more than 25 years ago), but I was TS, and nothing else
was right for me.
A really, really great posting Celeste. One for the archives.
Anna
Private email arrives at this anonymous address
Anna
ghostv'_nospam_'@ozemail.com.au (Julie Simpson) replied:
> In article <353a63e6...@news.newsguy.com>, spa...@farkle.com (Shh!
> Secret Squirrel) wrote:
>
> > "You're as young as you feel" has never been truer. I'm 40, look 30,
> > and feel 25.
>
> Ah, finally, a good reason _not_ to transition young! ;) I've heard many
> ts's say upon transitioning late that they look about 10 years younger
> than they are. Sadly, those of us who transitioned young tend to look
> exactly as old as we are. I'm 37, and I look it <sigh>. Not that it's so
> terrible, but think of what I could have saved on Clarins!
37 is a wonderful age to be! You probably look great!
I transitioned fairly young (22), am now 51, and am told I look 33
or even younger (like, no grey hair); which sort of feels really odd
(being addressed as "Babe"), and it is frustrating to be not taken
seriously by people who are younger than me, but think I'm much younger
than them. OTOH, my partner has a son of 33, and _she_ gets taken for
his sister too. Perhaps it's something in the water, or the diet, and
nothing to do with TSism!
Anna
Celeste
Thank you very much for your compliment. I appreciate your support. I have
been trying to what small things I can to bring this news group back to the
wonderful, idyllic environment it was a year ago, help to continue to be the
place the Rosalind hoped it could be. Rosalind works to hard to see her
efforts go for not. Her dulcet, lilting tones are a melody not often heard
around here.
You can do your part too. If you write just one original article every week,
expressing your feelings, raising what questions you have, even a note about
something interesting that you read, you can help make this news group as
good as it can be. The more good articles people write, the quieter the
noise from the trolling engines will become. We can drown them out with
dulcet tones and cognizant discussions.
Rikki
Mother Choriza wrote in message
<6hgvk1$jai$1...@newsd-143.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Ok!
Let me say again: All people are special. All people are unique. All
people are capable of happiness. All men are equal so that I may learn
Mother Choriza I find you to be a very graceful individual whos wisdom
lesson to others. Those who don't listen to others do not want to hear. They
only believe what they say. Correct me if I am wrong but that is insecurity.
I went through it myself. BTW, I single no one out there are a multitude of
individuals in the world who suffer from this.
Celeste
We are very sorry if any newbie who does not read the charter and check out
the posts about the prohibition against crossposting prior to posting to
this news group. I have been writing public service notices about this
point for a very long time. This week has NOT been the beginning of the
polite requests. I for one very much hope that you understand that
crosspost cancellation, which began this past weekend, is performed based
on objective criteria and is not directed at any individual or the content
of their article. I for one also hope that you should feel free to simply
repost any article you crosspost, since the original might not ever make it
onto the net with my cancelbot software running.
Meanwhile, I for one sincerely hope you find the discussion here
intellectually stimulating and emotionally uplifting. One way to help
achieve that is to help us all by writing an original article at least once
a week. Tell us your feelings ask questions, describe your experiences,
whatever you think might make a positive contribution. If you don't like
what others write. Write your stuff. It is a much more constructive way to
be heard than complaining. This place can only be as pleasant as everyone
makes it. Use emoticons and words of politeness frequently, they might help
prevent a misunderstanding. It is something I am trying to work on myself.
Also, I hope that you find my information pointer postings helpful. I try
to get to them weekly or at least about every ten days to beat the spool
off on many INN servers. The informational pointer pots include:
hormone usage information
hormone purchase information
where to buy dilators
surgeon lists
post operative care
facial surgery
breast surgery
and whatever else I can think of from time to time.
Supportively Yours,
Pursue Happiness Always ("Celeste Sojourner")
lilubrghthmthluuulllthmth
On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:36:27 GMT, bad.gurl@russell_ate_my_balls.com (Mrs. Peel) wrote:
>I dunno, I "pass" for at least a decade younger than I am at the
>Puffcave.......
>
>de-der-de-der--de-der-de-der-BATMAN!
>-Mrs. Peel
>*(:)8]<=
Puff is gooder than chee-ken.
Not as big of hottie as squirrel.
-lilu
Stefani Banerian
I am wondering if Celeste might hae wanted to title this thread, "having
it done and getting over it early"
I still feel pretty young, so I might wish to say I had it done young
too, just not as early as Celeste.
Karen Ross
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in article
<michelle-ya0240800...@nntp.best.com>...
> Last fall, a friend of mine got carded when she was a few months shy of
50
> years old.
Yes, I did...and *adored* it. ;-)
Of course, I did get a face lift too. People thought I looked really young
but I was starting to look tired. With the brow and face lift, I look more
rested ... and a lot younger. Some of the looks of disbelief I get when
people find out my age are priceless.
Now if I can just loose another 30 pounds, I'll have recovered a lot of my
former "babe" quotient, too. :-)
Loving every minute,
Kare
Mrs. Peel
Work it.
Damn, she's cute.
...and is totally unattracted to me!
sisterly,
Mrs. Peel
In article <01bd6e66$be65bce0$LocalHost@QIZHQCCD>, "Karen Ross"
San Francisco is a mad city-inhabited for the most part by perfectly
Mrs. Peel
In article <3540D3BA...@bga.com>, Julie Haugh <j...@bga.com> wrote:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<verbiage trimmage>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Puff is gooder than chee-ken.
>>
>> Not as big of hottie as squirrel.
>
>But Puff likes boys. Bummer.
Actually, Puff is sleeping with an Elizabeth Hurley look-alike.
Puff still like boys, tho'.
Puff is very, very complex.
-Mrs. Peel
Celeste
Peachy puff, complexity as of the most attractive attributes a girl can
have, don't you think? I also wish you all the success and happiness in the
world sleeping with someone even half as adorable as "Ms. Kensington" (from
the silly Austen Powers romp of a flick !?!?!) and yes I too have always
focused on the more abstract qualities of those whose seem interesting, much
less concerned about the configuration of the equipment between their
thighs.
Karen Ross
Mrs. Peel <beautiful@Estee_Lauder_hottie.com> wrote in article
<6hqujv$6...@news3.newsguy.com>...
> Actually, Puff is sleeping with an Elizabeth Hurley look-alike.
>
> Puff still like boys, tho'.
>
> Puff is very, very complex.
And Puff is hottie - gooder than chee-ken alright. Of course, she's like
my little sister - if I *liked* my little sister. Since we share hometown,
kinda makes since. Of course when I transitioned, she was in grade school.
:-)
Hugs,
Kare
Mrs. Peel
In article <01bd73bd$1cc30d00$0bfea8cf@karen>, "Karen Ross" <kross@NO_SPAM.gis.net> wrote:
>And Puff is hottie - gooder than chee-ken alright. Of course, she's like
>my little sister - if I *liked* my little sister. Since we share hometown,
>kinda makes since. Of course when I transitioned, she was in grade school.
Thank you, Ms. Ross! Gee, if we'd transitioned at the same time, I would have
been the happiest girl in the (mumble)grade!
I like my sister and she likes me and I'm sure we'd all get along just fine!
> :-)
Right back at cha'!
Karen Ross
Mrs. Peel <femme@I_wear_dresses_a_lot_and_like_it.com> wrote in article
<6hmpu6$r...@news1.newsguy.com>...
> Work it.
>
> Damn, she's cute.
>
> ...and is totally unattracted to me!
Yes, you're like my little sister...if I really *liked* my little sister.
Of course, I don't find *most* people attractive. Then, out of the blue -
POW - I fall in love. It's weird, but that's just me.
Hugs,
Kare