I am truly disappointed.

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Lisanne Anderson

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Aug 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/21/99
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Hi Diane,

I think she does us all a great service. Most of the time she gives us a
really good reason to hate her.

>When it comes to the you-know-whoster I gave up on rationality some
>six or eight years ago. I find gratuitous flaming ( in hir case) not
>only more effective but I've saved thousands as I was able to give up
>my Primal Scream Therapy.
> ;)

I always feel so justified after flaming her. It's totally guilt-free.

OK, I did screw up a few days ago. But she never keeps her word either.

Now, who were we taking about, anyway. <giggle>

Feeling much better
Lisanne

Hey, don't blame me for this, I only write the stuff

CRxx

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Aug 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/21/99
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Yeah, my little pony...

Christine!

Jennifer Suzanne

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Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
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Laura Blake <ldb...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:37a4cf66...@news.sprint.ca...
> On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:30:05 -0500, "Jennifer Suzanne"
> <jenni...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >I put up with a lot of crap, mainly because about
> >90% of was so far off the mark, it was laughable.
>
> The thing that just fries my ass about this little gang of yours is that
you
> are real goddamned quick to dump on others, you make no bones about
flaming
> and defaming total strangers... but when someone does it to you you bitch
> like a bunch of schoolyard sissies. Like, we're supposed to treat you as
> adults when you act like babies???

I know I really, really, really should just ignore this. And I know I am
going
to really, really, really regret this. So, I sincerely ask the group's
forgiveness,
and I understand if it is not forthcoming, but this one is just too much for
my
twisted sense of humor to pass up. Oh, and you are hardly a stranger. When
I first encountered you on alt.transgendered, some years back, I spoke up
in your defense, because I thought you were being treated unfairly. Then,
not long after that, I said something you didn

Laura, first off, the gang is in alt.support.srs. Second, no one has dumped
on you. In fact, I specifically spoke out against what I have seen recently
in
s.s.transgendered. What gripes me the most there, is that the same people
who engage in transsie ethnic cleasing in a.s.srs, are in s.s.transgendered
trolling.

Oh, and you are hardly a stranger. When I first encountered you on alt.
transgendered, some years back, I spoke up in your defense, because
I thought you were being treated unfairly. Then,not long after that, I said
something you didn't agree with (not about you, but simply something you
disagreed with) you came after me with your usual round of profanity.

> I've watched this whole thing spread across 6 newsgroups, over the years.
> It's always the same people, the same little clique. You set up (or
revive)
> a newsgroup always hoping it will be different, then a couple of days
later
> you start the same bullshit all over again. You begin to circle the
wagons
> and point fingers, treating anyone who is not part of your little clique
> like shit... then you wonder why people react badly to you.

Well, you know how it is when you suffer from internalized transphobia.

> Hint: People don't generally like dealing with defensive jerks.
>
> Shit, you are bringing it on yourselves with this over-protective BS line
> you run on anyone who is not exactly your kind of transsexual. Don't
blame
> me when this one goes sour... y'all started it (as usual).

Laura, if you will simply not post here anymore, and either lurk, or simply
leave in peace, then the group can stand or fall without you. If it still
falls,
no one can blame you. If it doesn't fall, then all the better.


--
Jennifer Suzanne

Visit my web site at:
http://members.tripod.com/~Jennifer_Suzanne


Laura Blake

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Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
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On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:30:05 -0500, "Jennifer Suzanne"
<jenni...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I put up with a lot of crap, mainly because about
>90% of was so far off the mark, it was laughable.

The thing that just fries my ass about this little gang of yours is that you
are real goddamned quick to dump on others, you make no bones about flaming
and defaming total strangers... but when someone does it to you you bitch
like a bunch of schoolyard sissies. Like, we're supposed to treat you as
adults when you act like babies???

I've watched this whole thing spread across 6 newsgroups, over the years.


It's always the same people, the same little clique. You set up (or revive)
a newsgroup always hoping it will be different, then a couple of days later
you start the same bullshit all over again. You begin to circle the wagons
and point fingers, treating anyone who is not part of your little clique
like shit... then you wonder why people react badly to you.

Hint: People don't generally like dealing with defensive jerks.

Jennifer Suzanne

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Aug 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/1/99
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When I first noticed life in this group, I was curious. That curiousity
quickly turned to hope,
and that hope is quickly turning to dismay.

I come here pretty much for the same reasons anyone else should. I am
looking to learn,
and hopefully, to pass on some of what I know from my own experiences. That
was the
same reason I pull alt.support.srs. And, alt.transgendered, and
soc.support.transgendered.
But, in each of those groups, the signal to noise ratio is rather poor. I
honestly hope this
group can be different. Given a chance, and reasonable assurances that
things really are
safe, I will eventually open up and reveal more of my situation. I refused
to do that in alt.
support. srs, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who was there
during the time
others have been so quick to mention. I put up with a lot of crap, mainly
because about
90% of was so far off the mark, it was laughable. I was sure not going to
give anyone real
information that they could use to inflict real pain.

Again, I am really not looking to start a fight.

Gwendolyn Ann Smith

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Aug 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/5/99
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In article <yV4p3.4673$Xf7....@news4.mia>, Jennifer Suzanne
<jenni...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> I know I really, really, really should just ignore this. And I know I am
> going to really, really, really regret this.

It's not worth your time nor trouble. If your newsreader has a
killfile available, please consider using it. You'll feel better in
the morning. :-)

Cheers,
Gwen Smith

--
. .
/\\//\ Gwendolyn Ann Smith * Area Advisor, TCF
> () < Board Member, AEGIS * Webmistress, TransBay
\/()\/ Webmistress, SCCatl * Webmistress, gender.org
"I want this to be a harmony of voices" - Lauren D. Wilson
**Posts may not reflect the views of the above organizations

Jennifer Suzanne

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Aug 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/5/99
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Gwendolyn Ann Smith <Gw...@gender.organize> wrote in message
news:050819991030196728%Gw...@gender.organize...

> In article <yV4p3.4673$Xf7....@news4.mia>, Jennifer Suzanne
> <jenni...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > I know I really, really, really should just ignore this. And I know I
am
> > going to really, really, really regret this.
>
> It's not worth your time nor trouble. If your newsreader has a
> killfile available, please consider using it. You'll feel better in
> the morning. :-)

Actually, I never killfile. I find it much more satisfying to read it,
provided it actually interests me enough, and then ignore it.
Sometimes, and I am speaking of no one is particular here,
you run across some really funny stuff.

But, I do agree about it not being worth my time.

Jennifer Suzanne

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
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Diane A. <notr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:37bb33ad...@news.earthlink.net...
> On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:33:44 -0400, Nora-Adrienne Deret
> <nora-a...@accesshub.net> wrote:
> >I am not part of any clique.. I came here to read what people had to say
on
> >subjects that are near to my heart... I dont know if I will have SRS..
maybe I
> >will and maybe I wont.. but at least I listen with both ears and an open
mind...
>
> Yes Nora we do. You are very new it appears so I will tell you that
> the person you were responding to, Laura blake, is a kook who has been
> on the usegroups for years doing little else but putting down
> transsexuals. Sie is not transsexual hirself (I am post-op) and in
> fact hasn't even legally changed hir male name in all these years.

Well, some of us consider Diane to also be a kook. One of her favorite
pursuits is attempting to incite Laura into a flame war.

> Sie's been responsible for some of the worst flame wars on the usenet
> Tg newsgroups and recently has begun claiming that sie's "reformed" -
> we'll see <g>. your best bet with hir is to ignore hir - attempting a
> discussion with hir has resulted, in the past, eventually in a string
> of obscenities. Do a DejaNews searech on hir and see for yourself.
> Sie also posted several years back under the name of "Laura Masters".
> FYI.

And some others have been the result of Diane. Several of us here
have said no to flame wars. As to Diane, just visit the groups she is
currently stalking people in....like soc.support.transgendered, and
alt.support.crossdressing.


--
Jennifer Suzanne

Visit my recemtly updated web site at:
http://members.tripod.com/~Jennifer_Suzanne


Diane A.

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
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On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:33:44 -0400, Nora-Adrienne Deret
<nora-a...@accesshub.net> wrote:
>I am not part of any clique.. I came here to read what people had to say on
>subjects that are near to my heart... I dont know if I will have SRS.. maybe I
>will and maybe I wont.. but at least I listen with both ears and an open mind...

Yes Nora we do. You are very new it appears so I will tell you that
the person you were responding to, Laura blake, is a kook who has been
on the usegroups for years doing little else but putting down
transsexuals. Sie is not transsexual hirself (I am post-op) and in
fact hasn't even legally changed hir male name in all these years.

Sie's been responsible for some of the worst flame wars on the usenet


Tg newsgroups and recently has begun claiming that sie's "reformed" -
we'll see <g>. your best bet with hir is to ignore hir - attempting a
discussion with hir has resulted, in the past, eventually in a string
of obscenities. Do a DejaNews searech on hir and see for yourself.
Sie also posted several years back under the name of "Laura Masters".
FYI.

------------------------------------
Diane A.


CRxx

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
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Diane A. heeft geschreven in bericht
<37bb33ad...@news.earthlink.net>...

>Sie's been responsible for some of the worst flame wars on the usenet
>Tg newsgroups and recently has begun claiming that sie's "reformed" -
>we'll see <g>. your best bet with hir is to ignore hir - attempting a
>discussion with hir has resulted, in the past, eventually in a string
>of obscenities. Do a DejaNews searech on hir and see for yourself.
>Sie also posted several years back under the name of "Laura Masters".
>FYI.

Well. if you do have an open mind, there's nothing really wrong with her...

I do not agree with her on all points, but i never end up in a mess.
Remember: it takes two to tango!

Christine!


Nora-Adrienne Deret

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
to
I am not part of any clique.. I came here to read what people had to say on
subjects that are near to my heart... I dont know if I will have SRS.. maybe I
will and maybe I wont.. but at least I listen with both ears and an open mind...

I hope that every one else feels the same.

Nora-Adrienne

Laura Blake wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:30:05 -0500, "Jennifer Suzanne"
> <jenni...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >I put up with a lot of crap, mainly because about
> >90% of was so far off the mark, it was laughable.
>

Pippa

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Aug 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/16/99
to
One question Dianne,

Are you EVER going to give anyone you have already judged a
CHANCE to change the image that you have fixed in your mind?

PippA

CRxx

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Aug 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/17/99
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Jennifer Suzanne heeft geschreven in bericht
<6r4u3.20305$Co3.1...@news1.mia>...


>Well, some of us consider Diane to also be a kook. One of her favorite
>pursuits is attempting to incite Laura into a flame war.

>And some others have been the result of Diane. Several of us here
>have said no to flame wars. As to Diane, just visit the groups she is
>currently stalking people in....like soc.support.transgendered, and
>alt.support.crossdressing.

Please stop this!

This does not work.

Talk content and not people!

Christine!


Jennifer Suzanne

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Aug 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/17/99
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CRxx <xxr...@multiweb.nl> wrote in message
news:7pblnl$scc$1...@news.news-service.com...

>
> Jennifer Suzanne heeft geschreven in bericht
> <6r4u3.20305$Co3.1...@news1.mia>...
>
>
> >Well, some of us consider Diane to also be a kook. One of her favorite
> >pursuits is attempting to incite Laura into a flame war.
>
>
> >And some others have been the result of Diane. Several of us here
> >have said no to flame wars. As to Diane, just visit the groups she is
> >currently stalking people in....like soc.support.transgendered, and
> >alt.support.crossdressing.
>
> Please stop this!

I will...

> This does not work.

You are right.

> Talk content and not people!

Again, I agree, I should not have posted this.

Paulinev00

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Aug 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/18/99
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>> >Well, some of us consider Diane to also be a kook.

any one here not a kook? Me included. step back and look at the dribble we put
out. best tharapy in the universe.

If I kept track of the names and address on this board I would sell it as a
"KOOK BOOK" :)

Dont say bad things about Diane, she comes up with the best chuckles. And has
her heart in the right place..

hey Diane I still have some extra banana's,
want to share a couple....:)

Paula


Laura Blake

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Aug 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/18/99
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On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:48:34 +0200, "CRxx" <xxr...@multiweb.nl> wrote:
>>She does not believe in reasoning. Most of us have tried to engage her
>>in a rational discussion over the years but she does nor change.
>
>I tried, and all went well, although i did not adopt her opinions, and she
>did not mine. Well that's ok ISN'T IT??

I learned a lot from our exchange, btw.

The problem is that unlike you, Christine, they weren't talking to me, they
were talking *at* me... getting madder and madder as they failed to bully me
into dropping opinions and ideas that have worked very well for me for a
very long time... With them it isn't discussion, or debate... hell it's not
even an argument... it's an attempt at oppression. They don't want to
exchange information or develope mutually beneficial ideas... they just want
to push me into thinking like they do. My own ideas and experience means
absolutely nothing to these jackels all they care about was imposing their
views on me... and, honey, I react VERY strongly when someone tries to bully
me like that.

They can get just as pissed at me as they like... I've been digging into
gender issues all my adult life. I'm not going to dump 30 years of
investigation, 20,000 pages of files, and 10 years of successfule advocacy
work out the window, just because 6 or 8 braind dead transsexuals can't
leave me alone.

Now... the deal, often stated, is that IF they will leave me alone, I will
happily leave them alone... but so far I see no hint of them even trying.

-----
Laura Blake

The internet is a government
plot to overthrow the people.
-----

Laura Blake

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Aug 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/18/99
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On 18 Aug 1999 21:59:40 GMT, lisa...@aol.com.picnic (Lisanne Anderson)
wrote:
>Diane and I have been around the NG's for quite a while (Diane over ten
>years, me almost 3) and we have had long experience with LB. She is rude,
>vicious, and obsessed with certain poorly formulated ideas that she has either
>developed or taken from others and then warped. Reasoning with her is an
>exercise in futility, much like banging one's head against the wall.

I see we aren't very good at keeping our side of the bargain are we
Lisanne...

Christ, how bluntly do you want me to put this...

If you will kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP about me, I'll be more than happy to
leave you alone. Got it???

Diane A.

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Aug 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/18/99
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On 18 Aug 1999 21:59:40 GMT, lisa...@aol.com.picnic (Lisanne
Anderson) wrote:
> That is Laura's methodology. Make a lot of noise in the belief that noone
>will pay any attention otherwise.

When it comes to the you-know-whoster I gave up on rationality some
six or eight years ago. I find gratuitous flaming ( in hir case) not
only more effective but I've saved thousands as I was able to give up
my Primal Scream Therapy.
;)


------------------------------------
Diane A.


Lisanne Anderson

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Aug 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/18/99
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Hi Pippa,

Diane and I have been around the NG's for quite a while (Diane over ten
years, me almost 3) and we have had long experience with LB. She is rude,
vicious, and obsessed with certain poorly formulated ideas that she has either
developed or taken from others and then warped. Reasoning with her is an
exercise in futility, much like banging one's head against the wall.

This took me a while to find, but it was worth looking for in my saved
posts. It is an except from a xchange between Andrea Bennett and LB. Andrea had
been trying to reason with her, as have so many over the years.

On Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:33:50 GMT, lbl...@sympatico.ca (Laura Blake)
wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Jun 1997 06:54:13 GMT, arb...@mindspring.com (Andrea Bennett)
>wrote:
>>Why do you yell and curse at me, Laura? I treat you with respect and
>>courtesy.
>
>Step 1...
>Step 2...
>Step 3...
>Step 4... Hit people over the head with the facts like they were a 2x4...
><voila... they heard you.>

That is Laura's methodology. Make a lot of noise in the belief that noone
will pay any attention otherwise.

She does not believe in reasoning. Most of us have tried to engage her in


a rational discussion over the years but she does nor change.

Lisanne

Diane A.

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Aug 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/19/99
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:36:08 GMT, ldb...@sprint.ca (Laura Blake)
wrote:

>If you will kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP about me, I'll be more than happy to
>leave you alone. Got it???

Didn't Celeste have a thing about having her name mentioned for a time
as I recall. there's nothing special about your name or you - however
see my post regarding a proposal. I'm sure that I can get virtually
every known transsexual to sign and agree should you agree to do the
same.


------------------------------------
Diane A.


CRxx

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Aug 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/19/99
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Lisanne Anderson heeft geschreven in bericht
<19990818175940...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...

> This took me a while to find, but it was worth looking for in my saved
>posts. It is an except from a xchange between Andrea Bennett and LB. Andrea
had
>been trying to reason with her, as have so many over the years.

I guess you should look better, Lisanne...


>
>>>Why do you yell and curse at me, Laura? I treat you with respect and
>>>courtesy.

This statement is at least a bit polarizing. Saying someone is yelling and
cursing is generally not a good idea.
I think if you do want to make a point like this, you should at least have
the courtesy not to show things disconnected from it's context...

And about ramming your head against the wall...

This feeling often occurs when someone does not see the opinion of someone
else as another opinion, but as a wrong opinion. Saying someones opinions
are wrong usually ends up giving the person who's opinion is claimed to be
wrong, the feeling of being personally attacked.

When dealing with different opinions one should not try to convince someone
else. This rarely works. One should put their own opinion not forth as a
better one, but as an alternative one. Allow the room for thought, and for
dignity. IE a discussion is never won or lost. It is had...

The opinion of someone else is a gift. Treat it as if you were tasting wine,
it may taste bad, or it may taste good. That's oke. If it tastes bad, you
simply do not accept it. And if you want to give your opinion in return,
that great. But NEVER give your opinion about the opinion, just say you see
it differently, and then tell how YOU see it. This way you can avoid having
the different opinions end up in opposed position, and get them in a paralel
setting in which is left open which one is better.

Everyone is old and wise enough to make their own mind up. Don't forget this
simple fact!

> She does not believe in reasoning. Most of us have tried to engage her
in
>a rational discussion over the years but she does nor change.

I tried, and all went well, although i did not adopt her opinions, and she


did not mine. Well that's ok ISN'T IT??

Reasoning is not something to do in an arena...

Greetings,

Christine!


PS If you do want to convince someone, this method works better too!

Diane A.

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Aug 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/20/99
to
On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:36:08 GMT, ldb...@sprint.ca (Laura Blake)
wrote:
>If you will kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP about me, I'll be more than happy to
>leave you alone. Got it???

Take a drink!


------------------------------------
Diane A.


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