Funny personal ad.
Pumpkinhead
know. i am not a huge fan of disclosing information about oneself for the
entire world to see and so will not be filling this in."
She must get so many e-mails. No, seriously.
Sanukk
> If I were younger, I would start learning some asian language with the
> scope of migrating. Or at least be able to talk with asian girls here.
> Unfortunately, you need at least 6 years to gain a modest knowledge of
> japanese (and I suspect other asian languages as well).
Not necessarily, check out:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about
Anyway the hardest part of Japanese is the Kanji, which if you go about it
the right way you can learn the 2042 most common ones in two or three
months:
http://kanji.koohii.com/
It took me about six months (not counting the month off I took to move
house)
Although I'm not fluent, I learnt Thai to a level I could very comfortably
hold a conversation in about seven or eight months (still haven't gotten
around to learning to read Thai yet though).
As with learning anything, it all comes down to how much effort you put in.
-S
Samantha
I think you chose the right subject to post that link under, though
"funny" doesn't have to be "humourous", I know. How does the following
make any sense at all again? ...
"So how did I do it? Well, by spending 18-24 hours a day doing
something, anything in Japanese ("all Japanese, all the time"). That
sounds like a lot of time to invest, but I was almost as busy as you
are: a full-time student majoring in computer science at a university
in the armpit of the US (Utah), physically far from Japan and Japanese
people. I had computer science coursework, jobs and even a non-
Japanese "significant other". In other words, I had a life.
"So what? Well, my point is not that I'm better than you or smarter
than you. I am not. I am not special--in fact, I have an embarrassing
history of making incredibly dumb mistakes that other people just
never make. But I achieved some good results and there were reasons
for that, namely:
"1. The belief that I could become fluent in Japanese
2. Constantly doing fun stuff in Japanese"
O.k., so I just don't understand how that all fits together and how
this guy spent 18 - 24 hours a day doing something in Japanese even in
the /absence/ of a life. Didn't he sleep much either? I don't
understand, and I'm sorry.
Sanukk
> O.k., so I just don't understand how that all fits together and how
> this guy spent 18 - 24 hours a day doing something in Japanese even in
> the /absence/ of a life. Didn't he sleep much either? I don't
> understand, and I'm sorry.
I'm not advocating his site or technique (not TOTALLY anyway), but it's
actually far easier than you would at first think if you apply yourself.
you can load your MP3 player up with Japanese (or whatever language) stuff,
you can change the operating system or your mobile phone and your computer
to Japanese (or whatever language) rather than English, you can take notes
in Japanese (or whatever language) rather than in English, etc, etc.
Basically do exactly the same as you are doing now, just in the language
you want rather than the language you have become used to. You don't need
any extra time in the day.
-S
Samantha
O.k., thanks, that's a nice idea, and it's something I do a bit with
German, though I already had an intermediate to advanced knowledge
base before I started doing this, so it's just to keep that going and
going. What I don't understand is how that guy managed to do it for 18
- 24 hours a day when we're supposed to have at least 8 hours' sleep
and he claims he had a non-Japanese girlfriend and non-Japanese
coursework. It seems to me that his English must have taken a decline,
but I like /your/ idea. :-)
Sanukk
> O.k., thanks, that's a nice idea, and it's something I do a bit with
> German, though I already had an intermediate to advanced knowledge
> base before I started doing this, so it's just to keep that going and
> going.
Cool, but imagine how quick you would progress if you were NOT at the level
you are yet.
> What I don't understand is how that guy managed to do it for 18
> - 24 hours a day when we're supposed to have at least 8 hours' sleep
When I'm learning/brushing up on a language I tune my computer into a chat
radio broadcast in that language and leave it playing all night when I
sleep. This /may/ be what he is talking about.
> and he claims he had a non-Japanese girlfriend and non-Japanese
> coursework. It seems to me that his English must have taken a decline,
I don't really see why, when I go to the far east or to Spain/Mexico and
don't speak a word of English for a month or two, I am still able to on my
return. Although I will admit with the occasional foreign word or phrase
thrown in for a while out of habit.
> but I like /your/ idea. :-)
Not really /my/ idea, people have been doing this for a long time and
indeed this is one of the main ideas behind the AJATT site.
-S
Samantha
> Samantha wrote:
> > O.k., thanks, that's a nice idea, and it's something I do a bit with
> > German, though I already had an intermediate to advanced knowledge
> > base before I started doing this, so it's just to keep that going and
> > going.
>
> Cool, but imagine how quick you would progress if you were NOT at the level
> you are yet.
Yes, well, that's another thing I'm not so sure of imagining. If I
were not at the level I am, it seems to me that I'd be overwhelmed by
all the alien vocabulary and the alien grammar; too overwhelmed to
progress much at all. Diving into a sea of foreign language will not
do you any favours unless you can swim in it, i.e. understand what
you're diving into, will it? (There's that word again, "understand";
it's the same as "standing under", but the other way around).
The idea of diving into a sea of foreign language scares me!
> > What I don't understand is how that guy managed to do it for 18
> > - 24 hours a day when we're supposed to have at least 8 hours' sleep
>
> When I'm learning/brushing up on a language I tune my computer into a chat
> radio broadcast in that language and leave it playing all night when I
> sleep. This /may/ be what he is talking about.
Oh, I see. Why didn't /I/ think of that? Hence the trouble with me: I
can think to read pornographic novels in German, yet I can't think to
tune my computer into a chat radio broadcast in German and leave it
playing all night when I sleep. :-) Do you think any of it would sink
in?
I don't like the idea of doing something like that, as I like to have
everything (especially this old thing) switched off while I sleep for
a more relaxed environment with nothing running itself into a state of
collapse, and I like to have everything nasty and quiet. Also, the
radio chat broadcast probably wouldn't sound at all next to the air
purifier I have to drown out the noise from the street, which is all
that ever runs in my bedroom. :-)
> > and he claims he had a non-Japanese girlfriend and non-Japanese
> > coursework. It seems to me that his English must have taken a decline,
>
> I don't really see why, when I go to the far east or to Spain/Mexico and
> don't speak a word of English for a month or two, I am still able to on my
> return. Although I will admit with the occasional foreign word or phrase
> thrown in for a while out of habit.
I sometimes dream in German, and I sometimes find that a German phrase
fits better with what I want to say than any English phrase I can come
up with, it's just a shame that no-one else I know /speaks/ German -
not that /I/ speak German either. :-) I /would/ describe myself as
bilingual, only I don't speak well in any language, especially French
which I haven't gotten into that much, and so I wouldn't describe
myself as /tri/lingual. German is easier for me to pronounce, so I can
get a /feel/ for it more easily. In French, you just don't know what
the hell you're saying.
I've only been to Germany once, and that was last July, staying with a
German exchange partner who found me weird. /Everyone/ finds me weird.
Germans speak such good English that much of an understanding of
German is unnecessary, but I tried to understand what I could, though
the speed overwhelmed me a lot! When I arrived back in England, I
found I could still speak perfect English. :-) I believe my German has
improved since, though.
> > but I like /your/ idea. :-)
>
> Not really /my/ idea, people have been doing this for a long time and
> indeed this is one of the main ideas behind the AJATT site.
>
> -S
It was /your/ idea to inform Troll of this, and subsequently everyone
else in the group. :-)
Start learning a foreign language, everyone. It's rewarding and you
develop a more flexible mind which has an extra outlook on the world
and is no longer restricted to the English outlook. Just take me as an
example, I plan to learn more languages. ;-)
Sanukk
>> Cool, but imagine how quick you would progress if you were NOT at the level
>> you are yet.
>
> Yes, well, that's another thing I'm not so sure of imagining. If I
> were not at the level I am, it seems to me that I'd be overwhelmed by
> all the alien vocabulary and the alien grammar; too overwhelmed to
> progress much at all. Diving into a sea of foreign language will not
> do you any favours unless you can swim in it, i.e. understand what
> you're diving into, will it? (There's that word again, "understand";
> it's the same as "standing under", but the other way around).
>
> The idea of diving into a sea of foreign language scares me!
Obviously you will need to know the jist of the language, if you do not
know any Kanji (for example) and are suddenly presented with a screen full
of it, it will be little more than odd squiggles to you, but once you have
learnt to get by a little (and how to look up what you don't know, you will
progress very quickly.
>> When I'm learning/brushing up on a language I tune my computer into a chat
>> radio broadcast in that language and leave it playing all night when I
>> sleep. This /may/ be what he is talking about.
>
> Oh, I see. Why didn't /I/ think of that? Hence the trouble with me: I
> can think to read pornographic novels in German, yet I can't think to
> tune my computer into a chat radio broadcast in German and leave it
> playing all night when I sleep. :-) Do you think any of it would sink
> in?
I think some vocab does, but more importantly, you pick up the rhythm of
the language which is so important when talking to native speakers.
> I don't like the idea of doing something like that, as I like to have
> everything (especially this old thing) switched off while I sleep for
> a more relaxed environment with nothing running itself into a state of
> collapse
Interestingly enough, The only times I have ever heard of computer hardware
failing is when it's either starting up or stopping.
>>> and he claims he had a non-Japanese girlfriend and non-Japanese
>>> coursework. It seems to me that his English must have taken a decline,
>>
>> I don't really see why, when I go to the far east or to Spain/Mexico and
>> don't speak a word of English for a month or two, I am still able to on my
>> return. Although I will admit with the occasional foreign word or phrase
>> thrown in for a while out of habit.
I'm always saying khor thot (Thai for sorry) whenever I bump into somebody
at the local (very crowded) market, even months after visiting Thailand LOL
> I've only been to Germany once, and that was last July, staying with a
> German exchange partner who found me weird. /Everyone/ finds me weird.
> Germans speak such good English that much of an understanding of
> German is unnecessary, but I tried to understand what I could, though
> the speed overwhelmed me a lot! When I arrived back in England, I
> found I could still speak perfect English. :-) I believe my German has
> improved since, though.
This is something that listening to German talk radio would help greatly
with, you'll soon get used to the speed.
>>> but I like /your/ idea. :-)
>>
>> Not really /my/ idea, people have been doing this for a long time and
>> indeed this is one of the main ideas behind the AJATT site.
>
> It was /your/ idea to inform Troll of this, and subsequently everyone
> else in the group. :-)
OK, fair enough LOL
> Start learning a foreign language, everyone. It's rewarding and you
> develop a more flexible mind which has an extra outlook on the world
> and is no longer restricted to the English outlook. Just take me as an
> example, I plan to learn more languages. ;-)
Couldn't agree more.
-S
Darkfalz
wrote:
I love how just about everyone who uses the internet acts like they
are above it.
Samantha
> Samantha wrote:
> >> Cool, but imagine how quick you would progress if you were NOT at the level
> >> you are yet.
>
> > Yes, well, that's another thing I'm not so sure of imagining. If I
> > were not at the level I am, it seems to me that I'd be overwhelmed by
> > all the alien vocabulary and the alien grammar; too overwhelmed to
> > progress much at all. Diving into a sea of foreign language will not
> > do you any favours unless you can swim in it, i.e. understand what
> > you're diving into, will it? (There's that word again, "understand";
> > it's the same as "standing under", but the other way around).
>
> > The idea of diving into a sea of foreign language scares me!
>
> Obviously you will need to know the jist of the language, if you do not
> know any Kanji (for example) and are suddenly presented with a screen full
> of it, it will be little more than odd squiggles to you, but once you have
> learnt to get by a little (and how to look up what you don't know, you will
> progress very quickly.
It surprises me how few people in my classes actually seem able to get
the jist of a language in the first place, though maybe it's partly
from lack of enthusiasm / motivation. But grammatical things just seem
obvious to me, while others seem to struggle with them. With the jist
of a language under your understanding, you can progress very quickly
with everything else, as I have, though it admittedly doesn't come
through in speaking tasks.
As well as listening to German MP3's and reading German, I've actually
covered my bedroom walls with German words, so I can re-enforce German
vocabulary just by glancing at a wall in my bedroom, though it's
probably not a good sign that I'd actually forgotten all about this
until today when I noticed the German words on my wall again.
> >> When I'm learning/brushing up on a language I tune my computer into a chat
> >> radio broadcast in that language and leave it playing all night when I
> >> sleep. This /may/ be what he is talking about.
>
> > Oh, I see. Why didn't /I/ think of that? Hence the trouble with me: I
> > can think to read pornographic novels in German, yet I can't think to
> > tune my computer into a chat radio broadcast in German and leave it
> > playing all night when I sleep. :-) Do you think any of it would sink
> > in?
>
> I think some vocab does, but more importantly, you pick up the rhythm of
> the language which is so important when talking to native speakers.
Yes, I'll do that sort of thing more often. I probably need to do it
with French more than anything else, but I'm not very enthused about
French as of yet.
> > I don't like the idea of doing something like that, as I like to have
> > everything (especially this old thing) switched off while I sleep for
> > a more relaxed environment with nothing running itself into a state of
> > collapse
>
> Interestingly enough, The only times I have ever heard of computer hardware
> failing is when it's either starting up or stopping.
... like the worst times on a flight are when you're taking off or
landing, but I don't want the plane to crash down into the ocean at
any other time either.
> >>> and he claims he had a non-Japanese girlfriend and non-Japanese
> >>> coursework. It seems to me that his English must have taken a decline,
>
> >> I don't really see why, when I go to the far east or to Spain/Mexico and
> >> don't speak a word of English for a month or two, I am still able to on my
> >> return. Although I will admit with the occasional foreign word or phrase
> >> thrown in for a while out of habit.
>
> I'm always saying khor thot (Thai for sorry) whenever I bump into somebody
> at the local (very crowded) market, even months after visiting Thailand LOL
I can't beat that, but I sometimes say "ja" when I mean "yes" ...
> > I've only been to Germany once, and that was last July, staying with a
> > German exchange partner who found me weird. /Everyone/ finds me weird.
> > Germans speak such good English that much of an understanding of
> > German is unnecessary, but I tried to understand what I could, though
> > the speed overwhelmed me a lot! When I arrived back in England, I
> > found I could still speak perfect English. :-) I believe my German has
> > improved since, though.
>
> This is something that listening to German talk radio would help greatly
> with, you'll soon get used to the speed.
It's something I've meant to start doing for a while actually, but the
amount of choice puts me off, and I put things off until the perfect
time, which is what I'm doing now, but I don't really want to stop
yet ...
> >>> but I like /your/ idea. :-)
>
> >> Not really /my/ idea, people have been doing this for a long time and
> >> indeed this is one of the main ideas behind the AJATT site.
>
> > It was /your/ idea to inform Troll of this, and subsequently everyone
> > else in the group. :-)
>
> OK, fair enough LOL
>
> > Start learning a foreign language, everyone. It's rewarding and you
> > develop a more flexible mind which has an extra outlook on the world
> > and is no longer restricted to the English outlook. Just take me as an
> > example, I plan to learn more languages. ;-)
>
> Couldn't agree more.
>
> -S
What got you into learning Thai? My own story is rather boring, as I
simply went to school [quite a lot], though I /have/ been in love with
a few German /teachers/ along the way, and they've all been far too
old for me. And bald, overweight, not to mention married and moving to
Spain / promiscuous and going to be a famous actor. I just went to
school, that's all.
Sanukk
>> Obviously you will need to know the jist of the language, if you do not
>> know any Kanji (for example) and are suddenly presented with a screen full
>> of it, it will be little more than odd squiggles to you, but once you have
>> learnt to get by a little (and how to look up what you don't know, you will
>> progress very quickly.
>
> It surprises me how few people in my classes actually seem able to get
> the jist of a language in the first place,
This is why I tend to avoid language classes for languages other than the
one/s that are spoken locally. I've found most people in the class will
only even think of the language they are meant to be learning once a week
(or however often the classes are) in class and then get pissed off they
aren't progressing very well.
> though maybe it's partly from lack of enthusiasm / motivation.
Your (personal) motivation is so important to keep in mind, I had several
online friends who started to learn Japanese at roughly the same time for
various different reasons, the ones that kept this reason in mind and
worked towards it now all speak (or read in the cases of the manga lovers)
well, the ones that forgot why they were doing either floundered or gave up
completely.
> But grammatical things just seem
> obvious to me, while others seem to struggle with them. With the jist
> of a language under your understanding, you can progress very quickly
> with everything else, as I have, though it admittedly doesn't come
> through in speaking tasks.
Grammar is something that is far easier to learn after your second
language, as with your first foreign language you automatically try to
force it into the rules of your native tongue, once you have learnt to
think differently from your native grammar rules it gets progressively
easier.
> As well as listening to German MP3's and reading German, I've actually
> covered my bedroom walls with German words, so I can re-enforce German
> vocabulary just by glancing at a wall in my bedroom, though it's
> probably not a good sign that I'd actually forgotten all about this
> until today when I noticed the German words on my wall again.
When I'm starting a new language I cover my flat with stick-it notes to
reinforce what I'm learning. I also use full sentences NOT single words,
after all what good are a bunch of words if you've no idea on how to string
them together.
>> I'm always saying khor thot (Thai for sorry) whenever I bump into somebody
>> at the local (very crowded) market, even months after visiting Thailand LOL
>
> I can't beat that, but I sometimes say "ja" when I mean "yes" ...
On more than one occasion on returning to Blighty from Japan, I'll finish
my pint in a pub and the barman/girl will ask if I want another to which I
automatically reply 'Hai' to which they usually go 'err, Hi, do you want
another one?' LOL
>> This is something that listening to German talk radio would help greatly
>> with, you'll soon get used to the speed.
>
> It's something I've meant to start doing for a while actually, but the
> amount of choice puts me off, and I put things off until the perfect
> time, which is what I'm doing now, but I don't really want to stop
> yet ...
Just do it, you can always refine your choices later if need be.
> What got you into learning Thai?
Wherever I go, I always make a point of trying to learn as much of the
local language and customs as I can (it's only polite as a guest of their
country). I had a friend set up a business in BKK who wanted me to help get
things underway, and as I had a couple of friends who had also moved there
I jumped at the chance.
I was TOTALLY disgusted at most of the expats there who even after living
there for years refused to learn even the most basic Thai, so although I
had no intention of living full time there (which would necessitate knowing
the language very well, like my Spanish, German, and Arabic) I decided to
do what I could to save some face for the UK. I improved on the little Thai
I had already learnt.
I now have great fun talking to expats wives/girlfriends in Thai while they
get annoyed because they have no idea what we are talking about. They
bloody live there, if I can get to conversational level from six and a half
thousand miles away, they could at least learn the basics.
I wanted to learn another Asian language and was thinking about Korean (as
I'm heavily into Korean movies), but decided to go with Japanese instead as
it's a bit more useful in business and it makes learning Korean easier if I
do indeed decide to learn that at a later date.
Ultimately I just love learning languages, well learning anything new
really.
> My own story is rather boring, as I
> simply went to school [quite a lot], though I /have/ been in love with
> a few German /teachers/ along the way, and they've all been far too
> old for me. And bald, overweight, not to mention married and moving to
> Spain / promiscuous and going to be a famous actor. I just went to
> school, that's all.
You do realize we are going to have to start a new splinter group called
alt.support.shyness.languages now LOL
-S