How do you have a child?
suffering
I am suffering pain as a mother has disclosed regularly over 2
years at least of how her child is being bullied and isolated, and
ostracized but I can't get through to her head, in polite language, what
needs to be done to save the boy. I listen helplessly. Maybe I am
saying the wrong things or saying it the wrong way. Any input would be
appreciated. If the mother didn't say anything, I wouldn't feel so bad,
but she comments. I am not a parent and I am not a heterosexual.
I will start with her today's comments to me: The mother says her 6
year old son doesn't fit in with other boys. She says she is anxious
because school is starting again. She says one of the bullies is moving
to a different city.
Little Boys History: The boy grew up in a day-care of only babies from
year 2 until year 6 when the boy started school grade 1. Year 2 mother
went back to work. Father works, too. Child had trouble in grad 1 and
is going into grade 2. Child had school problem because parents never
taught the child his ABCs and so is behind other kids. Child had social
problems because he had never been in the company of anyone his own age
so he doesn't know how to think, act or understand his peers. He seems
weird to his peer and his peers seem weird to him.
The child is receiving tutoring for schooling. The child is in a team
sport. The mother says that he plays the team sport 2 or 3 time a week
and so she will keep him in the sport and hanging out with the sports
kids so he has no problem and that school is just a short/small aspect
of his life.
Personal experience is that if children don't fit in, they do less well
in school and have a difficult time concentrating without modest support
from peers.
My position and comments to the mother from day one have been as
follows: You may not agree but regardless, please help with constructive
comments.
I have always indicated that her son needs to gain experience with being
in the company of his peers by finding kids in his residential area to
hang out with regularly after school and on weekends so he acquires
those natural skills, comfort and understanding of his peers and develop
the same way of thinking and common interests of kids his age. I also
suggested that she enrol her son in a summer program or an hour once a
week in a judo type program so the son builds confidence with his peers
in the judo class and has confidence in himself to defend himself from
his peers who are bulling him in school. I tell her that he is very
young and he will do fine in no time when he has a couple of regular
buddies to hang out with. She says on the playground the teachers
observed her son stays to himself and has all year in grade 1.
The mother says he is in the sports all week and is having tutoring in
school as well so there is no time left in a given year for the kid to
do judo etc. She has enrolled him in swimming, too. I said when the
swimming is done or he swims sufficiently well, do one session of a judo
type program. She doesn't agree. The swimming lessons are private.
She doesn't get it that this kid needs to be with his peers, learning
swimming with his peers.
The mother believes that her son will survive in the sports environment
and that will solve all her and her son's problems. The child had
never been in the company of his peers and no effort is made to expose
him to his peers except in his sports events which you should know the
mother is an assistant captain or whatever mothers can be in helping
with sports teams. The coach by the way said to the mother today or
very recently that the mother will stay with the team her son and she is
assisting with but that her son may not be on the same team every year
or this new season starting. This has made the mother anxious. She
obviously is trying protect her son and it may be that the sports
association realize that little boys often need to find themselves and
can do so or do better without the mother's presence and involvement
24/7/365. I believe this mother said she is the only woman/mother
assistant coach or assistant captain in this sport so that says more
than I want to know. And why is not the father involved and
particularly because he plays this sport 1 or 2 times a week as an
adult?
My position is that bullies exist in every aspect of everyone's life
potentially and one must learn to defend oneself modestly physically,
vocally and mentally and the best way to do that is by judo, wrestling
or some sport that builds self-confidence for boys when they are boys
and not grown men.
My position is that little boys need to be with their peers so they know
and copy other little boys habits and thinking processes. Little boys
just need little boys as friends so they can grow into healthy young
men. Isolation is not the answer.
I believe that little boys who do not fit in can do okay, do well or
excel in sports on a team, but if they don't develop good strong peer
thinking and social skills, by the time the little boy is 10 or 12, he
will be on a sports team but the rest of the boys will isolate the kid
if he has no social skills. That as a young player of 6 there are too
many adults and parents involved for the little guys to be socially
independent. So being on a sports team will not save this child unless
the child is closer to normal in his acting and thinking in the long
term.
The father does play the same sport as the son but the father is not
involved in taking the kid to the sport. There are two boys; the other
son being younger. The father takes the other son to his events. The
mother admits to other people not me that the oldest son is her
favourite.
I believe child can tell if parents favour one child over another and
parents should never do this and often the child that is favoured turns
out to disappoint the parent or parents most as they don't necessarily
develop and grow up to be the dream child/adult the parent wants or is
proud of. The kid goes to (phonetic) Catechism). I believe that this
child more than the younger son needs his father taking him to his
events and doing things with this boy not only the mother. This never
happens says the mother in a non complaining way or indirectly. Even
though I mentioned Catechism, the parents don't go to church or
confession so there is no way a priest can know that this boy needs
help.
How does this child get saved? He is only 6 turning 7.
My comments are accurate and meant to be unemotional. I have read it
over many times and it is accurately described. The only thing I left
out but will add now is that when the kids are in their home environment
and wake up or don't sleep well, says the mother in casual conversation
to me regularly, the oldest son always is in the mothers bed or the
mother is in his bed - this is all non sexual I believe - to settle the
boys down to get back to sleep, but the father is in the younger son's
bed always but the older boy never sleeps with the father or is in the
parents bed with the father. So in extreme situations the oldest son
has zero contact with an adult male on any level is my position and this
is less than healthy for a male child never to have any contact with
males particularly his father.
Why don't heterosexual parents understand the basics of any child's
needs to survive and do well in life. That is the part I don't
understand. But my understanding is not important. What is important
is how does a little boy like this get saved or how does this little boy
get help? I don't believe it is too late.
Thanks for any help or comments or feedback.
This is irrelevant but I tell you as it may help you understand my
thinking process.
As a young boy growing up I didn't fit in. I suffered more than this
child will ever suffer. I also had the same life as this child except
my father was on the highway 99 percent of the time and not home. I had
no team sports involvement until I was an adult. I thought if people
knew I was gay, they would understand why they thought I was weird;
however, when I joined the gay community in my 30s the entire gay
community thought I was weird, too. So then as an adult I learned that
I was very, very wrong but leaned quickly that homosexuals think just
like heterosexuals do, for the most part about life in general, but that
there is a different sexual orientation. So the fact that I don't think
like everybody else has nothing to do with my sexuality. While this
comment is irrelevant to the above problem - it stresses the importance
for children to grow up as close to normal thinking as possible so the
child understand the world around them and the world around them
understand them. It doesn't mean a child can't be unique or think
differently but it is important that children fit into society.
ci+
news:4A979AFA...@suffering.com:
> Hello,
>
> I am suffering pain as a mother has disclosed regularly over
> 2
> years at least of how her child is being bullied and isolated, and
> ostracized but I can't get through to her head, in polite
> language, what needs to be done to save the boy. I listen
> helplessly. Maybe I am saying the wrong things or saying it the
> wrong way. Any input would be appreciated. If the mother didn't
> say anything, I wouldn't feel so bad, but she comments. I am not
> a parent and I am not a heterosexual.
>
> I will start with her today's comments to me: The mother says her
> 6 year old son doesn't fit in with other boys. She says she is
> anxious because school is starting again. She says one of the
> bullies is moving to a different city.
>
> Little Boys History: The boy grew up in a day-care of only babies
> from year 2 until year 6 when the boy started school grade 1.
why did peers in daycare remain "baby" age? why no other 5 or 6 year olds?
> Year 2 mother went back to work. Father works, too. Child had
> trouble in grad 1 and is going into grade 2. Child had school
> problem because parents never taught the child his ABCs and so is
> behind other kids. Child had social problems because he had never
> been in the company of anyone his own age so he doesn't know how
> to think, act or understand his peers. He seems weird to his peer
> and his peers seem weird to him.
> The child is receiving tutoring for schooling.
if normal intelligence, i'd think this could help him catch up..
> The child is in a
> team sport. The mother says that he plays the team sport 2 or 3
> time a week and so she will keep him in the sport and hanging out
> with the sports kids so he has no problem and that school is just
> a short/small aspect of his life.
>
> Personal experience is that if children don't fit in, they do less
> well in school and have a difficult time concentrating without
> modest support from peers.
>
> My position and comments to the mother from day one have been as
> follows: You may not agree but regardless, please help with
> constructive comments.
>
> I have always indicated that her son needs to gain experience with
> being in the company of his peers by finding kids in his
> residential area to hang out with regularly after school and on
> weekends so he acquires those natural skills, comfort and
> understanding of his peers and develop the same way of thinking
> and common interests of kids his age. I also suggested that she
> enrol her son in a summer program or an hour once a week in a judo
> type program so the son builds confidence with his peers in the
> judo class and has confidence in himself to defend himself from
> his peers who are bulling him in school.
another older threa.. no relpies..
anyway...
yes, maybe judo or similar "defense" sport.... should be something the kid is more
interested in...
I tell her that he is
> very young and he will do fine in no time when he has a couple of
> regular buddies to hang out with. She says on the playground the
> teachers observed her son stays to himself and has all year in
> grade 1.
>
> The mother says he is in the sports all week and is having
> tutoring in school as well so there is no time left in a given
> year for the kid to do judo etc. She has enrolled him in swimming,
> too. I said when the swimming is done or he swims sufficiently
> well, do one session of a judo type program. She doesn't agree.
> The swimming lessons are private. She doesn't get it that this kid
> needs to be with his peers, learning swimming with his peers.
>
> The mother believes that her son will survive in the sports
> environment and that will solve all her and her son's problems.
is the kid addicted to sports? otherwise there seems too much (as a proprtion of
activites), especially considering the main goals ...
> The child had never been in the company of his peers and no effort
> is made to expose him to his peers except in his sports events
> which you should know the mother is an assistant captain or
> whatever mothers can be in helping with sports teams. The coach
> by the way said to the mother today or very recently that the
> mother will stay with the team her son and she is assisting with
> but that her son may not be on the same team every year or this
> new season starting. This has made the mother anxious. She
> obviously is trying protect her son and it may be that the sports
> association realize that little boys often need to find themselves
> and can do so or do better without the mother's presence and
> involvement 24/7/365. I believe this mother said she is the only
> woman/mother assistant coach or assistant captain in this sport so
> that says more than I want to know. And why is not the father
> involved and particularly because he plays this sport 1 or 2 times
> a week as an adult?
>
> My position is that bullies exist in every aspect of everyone's
> life potentially and one must learn to defend oneself modestly
> physically, vocally and mentally and the best way to do that is by
> judo, wrestling or some sport that builds self-confidence for boys
> when they are boys and not grown men.
i don't think it *must* be sports... but if the kid is "weird", he's less likely to acquire
some type of social skill as bully defense..
> My position is that little boys need to be with their peers so
> they know and copy other little boys habits and thinking
> processes. Little boys just need little boys as friends so they
> can grow into healthy young men. Isolation is not the answer.
>
> I believe that little boys who do not fit in can do okay, do well
> or excel in sports on a team, but if they don't develop good
> strong peer thinking and social skills, by the time the little boy
> is 10 or 12, he will be on a sports team but the rest of the boys
> will isolate the kid if he has no social skills. That as a young
> player of 6 there are too many adults and parents involved for the
> little guys to be socially independent. So being on a sports
> team will not save this child unless the child is closer to normal
> in his acting and thinking in the long term.
[snip religious junk..]
> How does this child get saved? He is only 6 turning 7.
>
> My comments are accurate and meant to be unemotional. I have read
> it over many times and it is accurately described. The only thing
> I left out but will add now is that when the kids are in their
> home environment and wake up or don't sleep well, says the mother
> in casual conversation to me regularly, the oldest son always is
> in the mothers bed or the mother is in his bed - this is all non
> sexual I believe - to settle the boys down to get back to sleep,
> but the father is in the younger son's bed always but the older
> boy never sleeps with the father or is in the parents bed with the
> father.
i think the best separation sequence for babies is at first: crib in same room
(though hopefully no adults snore as loud as a steel smelting factory).
then later, kid sleeps in own room.
(might have to spray monstercide under the bed and in the closet before turning off
the lights...)
can also read short bedtime story to babies (language.. learning!) and younger
kids...
night lights can be good..
well,. apologies... i skimmed around.. didn't read all..
fwiw...
Michaela Mackenzie
> Hello,
> Little Boys History: The boy grew up in a day-care of only babies from
> year 2 until year 6 when the boy started school grade 1. Year 2 mother
> went back to work. Father works, too. Child had trouble in grad 1 and
> is going into grade 2. Child had school problem because parents never
> taught the child his ABCs and so is behind other kids.
I find this so daunting -- what are teachers there for if not but to
teach them
stuff like their ABC's? I mean, I spend around 2 hours a night with
our 8yo,
but I see that as being supplementary to what she learns at school. .
I haven't read your <extremely long> post in its entirety and if I
have missed
your point, I ask forgiveness in advance.
Nevertheless, I aim to respond.
I seem to identify with what you are saying here. I had a friend who
seemed to be
going through much of the same stuff as your friend's son. And, like
you, I kept
encouraging teamwork, self defence of mind and body and trying to find
ways to
help her understand that her son needed to learn how to connect with
others.
I too could post at length about what transpired in the last seven or
eight years,
but I'm not sure that would help.
My friend seemed almost proud when her son was punished for something
-- he'd thumbed his nose at 'the establishment;'. She said she didn't
want to
raise a conformer. Being nonconformist and true to myself in many ways
as
a chile and as an adult, I value this ideal, but we need to fit in
with our peers
in some ways and... well, unfortunately it got too much for me in the
end and
I thought that the most loving thing for me to do all round was to
break it off
with her as a friend in June this year.
I miss her, we have mutual friends and because it's summer now and we
used to spend a lot of time at the pool catching up.
In the end, I had to weigh up the stress and benefits of being her
friend and I
decided I didn't want it anymore. And as long as I was her friend and
listening
to her cr*p I was enabling her.
> This is irrelevant
Not to me it isn't.
but I tell you as it may help you understand my
> thinking process.
> As a young boy growing up I didn't fit in. I suffered more than this
> child will ever suffer. I also had the same life as this child except
> my father was on the highway 99 percent of the time and not home. I had
> no team sports involvement until I was an adult. I thought if people
> knew I was gay, they would understand why they thought I was weird;
> however, when I joined the gay community in my 30s the entire gay
> community thought I was weird, too. So then as an adult I learned that
> I was very, very wrong but leaned quickly that homosexuals think just
> like heterosexuals do, for the most part about life in general, but that
> there is a different sexual orientation. So the fact that I don't think
> like everybody else has nothing to do with my sexuality. While this
> comment is irrelevant to the above problem - it stresses the importance
> for children to grow up as close to normal thinking as possible so the
> child understand the world around them and the world around them
> understand them. It doesn't mean a child can't be unique or think
> differently but it is important that children fit into society.
Where you say "normal thinking" I say emotional intelligence. I think
that, as Dale Carnegie seems to me to have been saying we need
to learn to love, to make a connection, to think of others. Because
when
we think of others we end up benefiting ourselves.
I identify with what you are saying.
What moved you to post here I don't know. What I do see is you seem to
be emotionally attached to this situation and you might want to take a
look
at why you are so emotionally involved and you might realise that you
need
to take a step back and let something go.
What will you lose to let go?
After all, it's usually when we let go that the answers resolve
themselves.
We don't need to control everything.
- Michaela
Michaela Mackenzie
> 28 Aug 2009,suffering <suffer...@suffering.com> innews:4A979AFA...@suffering.com:
I just noticed that you call yourself 'suffering'. Do you enjoy this
label?
> then later, kid sleeps in own room.
> (might have to spray monstercide under the bed and in the closet before turning off
> the lights...)
This is merely a personal choice - I have always stressed that there
is no such thing
as a monster or ghost'. Aren't there enough 'bogeymen' out there that
we don't need
to make monsters more real to kids?
- Michaela
ci+
in
news:7a420024-e50d-4b73...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.co
m:
>> 28 Aug 2009,suffering <suffer...@suffering.com>
>> innews:4A979AFA.2DD28D9F@ suffering.com:
>
> I just noticed that you call yourself 'suffering'. Do you enjoy
> this label?
>
(note: MM's reply is directed at OP...)
Andrew Usher
child?' Let's see, hmmm, I think it has something to do with the penis
and the vagina ...
Andrew Usher
PandoraElpis
which will translate into big-time reproductive benefits if he grows
up looking 'hot' enough.
So far, so good...
%
or you can buy one off Madonna
Doug Laidlaw
Why alt.support.shyness or loneliness?
%
"Doug Laidlaw" <blac...@afraid.org> wrote in message
news:fp2sp6-...@dougshost.douglaidlaw.net...
ask yourself the same thing
Society
"Andrew Usher" <k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135afff-41a2-48ce...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> I just can't help laughing at this subject line - 'How do you
> have a child?' Let's see, hmmm, I think it has something to do
> with the penis and the vagina ...
Compulsory sex education in the politician-run schools,
another government success story!
And when Young Skulls Full of Mush (tm) go to college,
they're taught that monologues are what vaginas are for.
--
Reporter: "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
Gandhi: "I think it would be a very good idea."
Doug Laidlaw
>
> "Andrew Usher" <k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1135afff-41a2-48ce...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I just can't help laughing at this subject line - 'How do you
>> have a child?' Let's see, hmmm, I think it has something to do
>> with the penis and the vagina ...
>
> Compulsory sex education in the politician-run schools,
> another government success story!
>
> And when Young Skulls Full of Mush (tm) go to college,
> they're taught that monologues are what vaginas are for.
>
Trolls everywhere! Only trolls cross-post. Go back to soc,men,
where you came from.
But I do agree with Gandhi.
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"%" <per...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:V9ydnVMal8Ns91fX...@giganews.com...
Stormin Mormon
maybe?
"Save the whales! Collect the whole set." I guess by that
bumper sticker, maybe you need a whole set of miniature
children on the mantel?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Andrew Usher" <k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135afff-41a2-48ce...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...