Do you know which men are good-looking?
Jim Summers87
believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
confidence"...
First of all, is there ANYONE here besides me who will admit that he KNOWS
which men are good looking when he sees them in public?
The majority of you guys here have ZERO ability to spot good looking men and
thus when you see an attractive woman with a guy you start speculating that she
must like him for his A) intelligence B) humor C) something else...
What is your problem? Is male beauty THAT impossible for you to observe and be
aware of???
Let me tell you....I see male beauty and I observe ZERO ugly guys with
beautiful women.....ZERO........
OhSojourner
It's possible, but you have to become rich... (ever see Mrs. Rodney
Dangerfield?)
ottoman
wrote:
youre a jackass summers. ive seen many unattractive rich or powerful
men with very hot(9-10's) women.
looks mean alot to women but even more to men. i dont think fast
seduction is saying an ugly guy can get a knockout. it means that a
guy can get women that are better looking than him. i see this all the
time.ive also seen very handsome guys with avg looking women. looks
are somewhat subjective,to an extent.
youre also beginning to sound like a serious flamer. "I see male
beauty" wouldnt a normal guy say "good looking men" or "handsome guys"
im starting to think summers might be a insane twisted woman trolling.
maybe she doesnt like the idea of guys using psychological tactics to
pull women out of their league. why is he so adamant that nothing
matters except looks and money, especially when its obviously not
true?
as far as insulting women, i think many women would rather be insulted
than be fawned over, or be bored. but it should be more like teasing,
than insulting. this has worked for me. in fact ive found that alot
of fast seduction type techniques work, although not all, and you need
to adapt it to your own personality, and find what works.
Jim Summers87
>men with very hot(9-10's) women.
They have MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$
We are not talking about gold-diggers..
Show me an UGLY man who isn't RICH with a beautiful woman....PROVE IT..
>looks mean alot to women but even more to men.
How would you know that? Are you a woman? Are you inside their head? What
are you basing that theory on??
> it means that a
>guy can get women that are better looking than him.
How do you know she is better looking than him? You can't judge male
beauty...NONE OF YOU CAN....
>maybe she doesnt like the idea of guys using psychological tactics to
>pull women out of their league.
Guys don't get women out of their league...show me a picture of some of these
"ugly" guys with women out of their league...PROVE IT, RAY....
>why is he so adamant that nothing
>matters except looks and money, especially when its obviously not
>true?
Obvious? Says who? You? PROVE that it's not true....
>as far as insulting women, i think many women would rather be insulted
>than be fawned over, or be bored.
Thanks Ray, is your Mom still dating guys who beat her in front of you? Why
don't I EVER see men insult women in public? Why don't I see it?? Answer that,
Ray???
>but it should be more like teasing,
>than insulting. this has worked for me.
Are you good looking? Oh wait, I forgot, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW what you look
like... NONE OF YOU DO...
> in fact ive found that alot
>of fast seduction type techniques work, although not all, and you need
>to adapt it to your own personality, and find what works.
I've found that there is no Fast Seduction, only good-looking guys getting
good looking women.....
You don't know which men are ATTRACTIVE...face it, you can't even begin to
comprehend it.........
franco
> The essential problem with the guys in this group is that they continue to
>believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
>confidence"...
Women don't necessarily like men good sense of humor. That's a discussion I had
with a friend last week who is a professor at my old university's psychology
dept (and I wanted to post about it earlier). You notice that women like men
who are 'playful' and more often than not, their playfulness doesn't reflect
intelligence or wit, but rather signals an effort to ingratiate themselves and
please the women. Women acknowledge the effort and they react by laughter as a
positive feedback.
Real wit that signals intelligence and creativity usually causes a smile rather
than an explosive fit of laughter. If anyone needs to read a scientific paper
about this just tell me and I'll mail it to you.
tnh421
"Jim Summers87" <jimsum...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041019154704...@mb-m28.aol.com...
Jim Summers87
I've been studying the issue for the last 2 years in public.....
The first month at this new University was extremely eye-opening because I
saw an endless supply of good looking jocks with beautiful women.......
In the past 2 months I've seen maybe ONE guy who was ordinary looking who had
a pretty girlfriend...
ONE................................
LE
Huh? Don't know what planet you're on, nor do I care how many papers you
have that attempt to prove otherwise. But this is so far from the truth
it's not even funny.
LE
OhSojourner
"Good sense of humor" needs to be defined more. What are they saying? That
some women prefer gloomy, depressed types? That "sense of humor" need not
imply "trying to be a comedian?"
Meme Warrior
You are basing your opinion of what a good-looking guy looks like on how hot
his girlfriend is, then you look for similarities in other guys with hot
girlfriends. This technique has lead you to belive that they are certain
traits that women need in a guy. However, you method is flawed because you
aren't taking into account the personality of the men you study. Therefore
their is a large number of varibles that could be consistent in these men
that you can't see. I have done similar observations throughout highschool,
only I also looked for similarites in personality traits as well as phyiscal
traits. I found that personality traits like confidence and good self-esteem
were more consistenly found in men with hot girlfriend then any phyiscal
characteristic. Likewise, the few relationships I have been able to have
with women have always coinceded with times were I was more confident then
usual.
Another intresting fact I noticed, is that I always had more admirers in the
opposite sex when I was in a relationship. I would start dating a girl and
notice women, who wouldn't even give me a second glance before, start
flirting with me. This is because men in relationships are more confident as
a result of them. CONFIDENCE, that's what we all need.
-MW
Meme Warrior
"franco" <fra...@grex.org> wrote in message
news:2tlariF...@uni-berlin.de...
Wow thanks, that kinda explains alot of experinces I had.
Lash Rambo
news:20041019144146...@mb-m05.aol.com:
The other day at the mall I saw a pretty scrawny-looking dude (read: non-
jock) with a massive birthmark covering half his face. He was with his
pretty wife (slim, tall, blond, tits, what else do you guys care about?)
and their newborn.
MCMLXVI
> jimsum...@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote in news:20041019144146...@mb-m05.aol.com:
>> Let me tell you....I see male beauty and I observe ZERO ugly guys with beautiful women.....ZERO........
> The other day at the mall I saw a pretty scrawny-looking dude (read: non-jock) with a massive birthmark covering half his face. He was with his pretty wife (slim, tall, blond, tits, what else do you guys care about?) and their newborn.
he must be $$loaded$$
Jim Summers87
>his girlfriend is, then you look for similarities in other guys with hot
>girlfriends.
EXACTLY, and the problem with that conclusion is???
>This technique has lead you to belive that they are certain
>traits that women need in a guy. However, you method is flawed because you
>aren't taking into account the personality of the men you study.
Wait a minute...so all of these guys just happen to have great personalities
and be great looking??? How do you know that?
>Another intresting fact I noticed, is that I always had more admirers in the
>opposite sex when I was in a relationship. I would start dating a girl and
>notice women, who wouldn't even give me a second glance before, start
>flirting with me. This is because men in relationships are more confident as
>a result of them. CONFIDENCE, that's what we all need.
WRONG, it's called social proof, by other women liking you she judges your
sexual value in general and thus ranks you higher...
Jim Summers87
>
EXACTLY $$$$$$$$$$$$$
DudeNEPhx1971
>believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
>confidence"...
Misogynists are horseshit to women.
> First of all, is there ANYONE here besides me who will admit that he KNOWS
>which men are good looking when he sees them in public?
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. You thought that guys in the ass
gallery were ugly adn feminie looking, some women might not think the same.
Your concept of beauty might be horseshit to others.
> The majority of you guys here have ZERO ability to spot good looking men and
>thus when you see an attractive woman with a guy you start speculating that
>she
>must like him for his A) intelligence B) humor C) something else...
>
> What is your problem? Is male beauty THAT impossible for you to observe and
>be
>aware of???
>
> Let me tell you....I see male beauty
You have one foot out of the closet, goodjob !!
Jim Summers87
>gallery were ugly adn feminie looking, some women might not think the same.
>Your concept of beauty might be horseshit to others.
No way, I never see guys like the ass gallery ones with attractive women in
public...the only potential hunk in there is Trance because he has that jock
body....
tnh421
Ya like those jock bodies don't ya Jimbo?
Solitary Soul
Then explain to us why Trance has such great difficulty in getting women.
... and why did Trance's last girlfriend dump him after a 9-month relationship?
Explain to us how Aster Boynton managed to get a girlfriend and leave this NG?
He wasn't particularly good-looking.
Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
-----------------------------------------------------
in some years, only 1% of a rabbit population survives.
that is what cleans the gene pool.
you don't see ugly rabbits or other wildlife.
- severesocialanxiety
Gray Loser
{Men} \ {Gray Loser}
Gray Loser
>
> Women don't necessarily like men good sense of humor. That's a discussion I had
> with a friend last week who is a professor at my old university's psychology
> dept (and I wanted to post about it earlier). You notice that women like men
> who are 'playful' and more often than not, their playfulness doesn't reflect
> intelligence or wit, but rather signals an effort to ingratiate themselves and
> please the women.
There's something in that. The universal 'women love humor' adage
isn't always true. Women love a particular *type* of humor -- one
that's part of a general package of playfulness, assertiveness,
optimism, etc. Men who exhibit humor in the context of that "package"
do very well with women.
Women may or may not care for other types of humor -- e.g., goofy
humor (which they may not get), dry/sarcastic humor (which may
alienate them), etc.
It's not enough to have *a* sense of humor. You have to have the
*right* sense of humor.
Gray Loser
He must have had BUCKETLAODS OF PERSAONLITYA AND A KILLER SENSE OF HUMRO
Lash Rambo
news:Dwidd.3104$ta5....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
They looked like a pretty standard $50k/yr income family to me.
Lash Rambo
news:b1b9d578.0410...@posting.google.com:
MYABE, BTU EH DDIN'T RAELLY SOHW TI.
DudeNEPhx1971
>>gallery were ugly adn feminie looking, some women might not think the same.
>>Your concept of beauty might be horseshit to others.
>
> No way, I never see guys like the ass gallery ones with attractive women in
>public..
Doesnt look like you have the radar for noticing attractive women, your radar
is busy admiring male beauty.
Jimsummers and his jockshit is getting boring. Why dont we have some chicks
talk similar stuff, lesbiana fantasia.
>.the only potential hunk in there is Trance because he has that jock body....
I wonder if Jimsummers will ever figure out women, do you have any female
friends ?
Kalidor
> The essential problem with the guys in this group is that they continue to
> believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
> confidence"...
>
> First of all, is there ANYONE here besides me who will admit that he KNOWS
> which men are good looking when he sees them in public?
>
> The majority of you guys here have ZERO ability to spot good looking men and
> thus when you see an attractive woman with a guy you start speculating that she
> must like him for his A) intelligence B) humor C) something else...
>
> What is your problem? Is male beauty THAT impossible for you to observe and be
> aware of???
What is your point? Let us suppose you're right, looks is everything and there is an objective gauge for beauty. Categorizing other men will help neither you nor me nor anybody else on a.s.s. If you're ugly (and still supposing you're right), you've got three choices:
1) Complaining about how bad the world is, especially women. That's what you're doing right now. It is not a solution; the world is not going to change because of you!
2) Improve your appearance. If you think you need a muscular body: Go to the gym and take steroids if necessary. If you think you need a tan: Use a tanning booth. If you think your face is ugly, consider plastic surgery.
3) Accept your fate and stop moaning. Either live with your "handicap" or put and end to your life.
Please stop doing (1) and move on to (2) or (3).
> Let me tell you....I see male beauty and I observe ZERO ugly guys with
> beautiful women.....ZERO........
You must be living in a very extraordinary place.
Jim Summers87
>
No, I'm just living in a world where I can actually DARE to say that other
men are attractive which seems to be something you are not capable of.
Apparently every guy is ugly to you so you can't begin to relate to why a woman
would like him....
Jim Summers87
Well, I haven't heard his voice or seen his body language which are 2
important traits women look for and we can't judge those by pictures...
>Explain to us how Aster Boynton managed to get a girlfriend and leave this
>NG?
>He wasn't particularly good-looking.
Aster got a girlfriend in his same league of attractiveness...of that I have
no doubt...she might be a mildly cute nerd but she's obviously no beauty
Queen...
Jim Summers87
>friends ?
No I don't, I don't want to appear like I am hitting on them so I keep all of
my relations with women in a very detached sort of manner.
I've never had a female friend.
Solitary Soul
>>Then explain to us why Trance has such great difficulty in getting women.
>
> Well, I haven't heard his voice or seen his body language which are 2
>important traits women look for and we can't judge those by pictures...
So then you admit that there are other factors involved besides whether
or not the guy is a "hunky-looking jock-type."
> >Explain to us how Aster Boynton managed to get a girlfriend and leave this
>>NG?
>>He wasn't particularly good-looking.
>
> Aster got a girlfriend in his same league of attractiveness...of that I have no doubt...
Doesn't this contradict your assertion that only "hunky-looking jock-types"
can get somebody to love?
>she might be a mildly cute nerd but she's obviously no beauty Queen...
How do you know this?
Have you seen her photo?
Virgo Cluster
news:<20041019154704...@mb-m28.aol.com>...
** ottoman **
>> ive seen many unattractive rich or powerful
>> men with very hot(9-10's) women.
** Jim Summers87 **
> They have MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
> We are not talking about gold-diggers..
>
> Show me an UGLY man who isn't RICH with a beautiful
> woman....PROVE IT..
How would one go about proving this? I think it's almost certain
that anyone both you and someone else here would know enough
about for there to be no doubt as the authenticity of the guy's
girlfriend/wife is going to be someone who we'd classify as
rich or powerful, this being regardless of what the guy's
girlfriend/wife looks like.
Virgo Cluster
"[10 Presidential Peccadilloes] (#1) George Washington (pres. 1789-97)
was an inveterate womanizer who spent very little time with his wife
Martha. Among the women with whom the president is known to have
had adulterous relationships were Kitty Greene, Lucy Flucker Knox,
Mrs. Clement Biddle (the wife of an army general), Elizabeth Gates
(also a general's wife), Theodosia Prevost Burr, Lady Kitty
Alexander Duer, Phoebe Fraunces, Eliza Powell, Mrs. William
Bingham, and Mrs. Prez Morton. Throughout the War of Independence
the British made propaganda out of Washington's sex life, alleging
that he kept hordes of mistresses, both black and white. He was
involved in only one sex scandal, however, known as the "Washerwoman
Kate Affair". A friend of Washington's, a Congressman named Harrison,
acted as his procurer in Philadelphia while Washington was at the
front. One day Harrison sent a letter to Washington informing
him of his latest "find", but the highly compromising note was
intercepted and found its way into the "Boston Weekly News" and
later the "Gentleman's Magazine" in London. The story eventually
became the inspiration for a Broadway play with the epic title
"The Battle of Brooklyn: A Farce of Two Acts: As It Was Performed
on Long Island, on Tuesday the 27th Day of 1776, by the
Representatives of Americans, Assembled at Philadelphia".
Washington was a flirt, and he didn't spare his wife's feelings.
A French officer noted, "he does it quite openly, and before
his wife, who does not seem to mind at all". In 1799 Washington
died of a chill which he caught, according to the official version,
riding his horse in the snow. According to a more likely
interpretation, however, he caught his chill jumping out of
a window trouserless after an assignation with an employee's
wife at Mount Vernon. He left no direct descendants: Though his
wife Martha had four children by a previous marriage, Washington
never sired a child to continue his line."
<< Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless
Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, pp. 10-11 >>
Virgo Cluster
news:<b1b9d578.04101...@posting.google.com>...
> Maximally, it is the following set:
>
> {Men} \ {Gray Loser}
The beauty [1] of this is that you don't need Zorn's Lemma
to come up with it! [2]
[1] Pun intended.
[2] Unlike, say, a maximal set of real numbers that is
linearly independent over the rationals.
See <http://tinyurl.com/csol> if you're interested.
Virgo Cluster
"[20 Artistic Eccentricities] (#10) The best known and most remarkable
works of the Victorian artist Richard Dadd were completed in Bedlam,
where he was serving a life sentence for the murder of his father
Robert. In 1842 Dadd accompanied his patron, Sir Thomas Phillips,
on a Grand Tour of Europe and the Middle East. During the trip
Dadd began to experience headaches and 'sun stroke". In Rome, he
experienced an uncontrollable urge to attack the pope during one
of his public appearances. It appeared that Dadd had become
convinced that he was being called upon by God to do battle with
the Devil, who could assume any shape he desired, including the
Pontiff. In spite of this fixation, Dadd continued working in
Newman Street, London, living on hard boiled eggs and beer.
Dadd's father had Alexander Sutherland of St. Luke's Hospital
examine his son, and Sutherland concluded that the artist was
clinically insane. Dadd's brother, George, was at this time
also showing signs of mental illness. In 1843 Robert Dadd
accompanied Richard on a trip to Cobham, and during this trip
Dadd attacked and killed his father with a knife and a razor.
He fled to Dover and boarded a ship for Calais, then set of
in the direction of Paris, but on the way drew attention to
himself by attempting to cut the throat of a fellow traveler.
He was finally detained in Montereau, where he confessed to the
murder of his father. In July 1844, shortly after Dadd's 27'th
birthday, he was sent to the Hospital of St. Mary of Bethlehem
(Bedlam), in London, where he remained for almost 20 years,
during which period he completed his famous works "The Fairy
Feller's Master-Stroke, Contradiction, Oberon and Titania" and
"Portrait of a Young Man". In 1864 Dadd was moved to the brand
new asylum at Broadmoor, near London, where he died two years
later of lung disease."
<< Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless
Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, pp. 138-139 >>
tnh421
And you never will because you are an asshole Jim.
helen~
> beautiful women.....ZERO........
we tend to see what we want to see.......................
h
tnh421
"helen~" <helens...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d89077d8.0410...@posting.google.com...
helen~
> > The essential problem with the guys in this group is that they continue to
> >believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
> >confidence"...
>
& u know this because you r a woman?
>That's a discussion I had
> with a friend last week who is a professor at my old university's psychology
> dept (and I wanted to post about it earlier).
someone said..."someone" can't be checked for accuracy.
>You notice that women like
lalalalalala...
h
helen~
mr. encouragement.
support?
naaahhhh............
h
Kalidor
jimsum...@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote:
> Apparently every guy is ugly to you
As a possible sexual mate, yes!!!
Don
> The essential problem with the guys in this group is that they continue to
> believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
> confidence"...
>
> which men are good looking when he sees them in public?
>
> The majority of you guys here have ZERO ability to spot good looking men and
> thus when you see an attractive woman with a guy you start speculating that she
> must like him for his A) intelligence B) humor C) something else...
>
> What is your problem? Is male beauty THAT impossible for you to observe and be
> aware of???
>
> beautiful women.....ZERO........
I think it is hard to say someone is either a hunk or ugly. There are
some of us in between.
I dont think I am ugly but I dont think I would be a candidate for
"The Bachelor" either.
I think some girls would prefer me, others would prefer someone better
looking.
I dont know, maybe I am wrong and non of them would want me.
Michaela
> Another intresting fact I noticed, is that I always had more admirers
> in the opposite sex when I was in a relationship. I would start
> dating a girl and notice women, who wouldn't even give me a second
> glance before, start flirting with me. This is because men in
> relationships are more confident as a result of them. CONFIDENCE,
> that's what we all need.
>
> -MW
Yes.
There's another (arguably sad, but I don't really think like that)
"sub-reason": the girl looks at the, and is attracted to him,
and might feel spurred on to see if she can attract him with
the (subconscious?) thought "Look at his gf. I bet I can prove
to him that I'm better than her."
Sometimes she can make herself look quite silly while she's
at it.
- Michaela
tnh421
"Don" <str...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1a66b8fe.04102...@posting.google.com...
It's not you. Jimbo is just trying to justify his lack of interest in
women.
Solitary Soul
Do you believe that there is a realistic possibility that you will ever
have an intimate relationship?
Do you have any friends at all?
Do you engage in any fun activities with other people?
DudeNEPhx1971
>>>friends ?
>>
>> No I don't,
I thought so, you speak like you dont understand woman at all.
Jim Summers87
>have an intimate relationship?
I hope so but even in having small conversations with women I experience
tremendous discomfort because of the intimacy and vulnerability of it.
>Do you have any friends at all?
No, I got rid of my only friend in 1997, he was being psychologically
abusive to me because he was angry at me for not being more social and more
normal. He wanted me to go out to bars and clubs with him and I refused to
leave the house.
>Do you engage in any fun activities with other people?
No
Jim Summers87
What would being friends with a girl teach me about them? That they don't
like good-looking men? Seriously, I think you are overestimating the value of
female friends. I could never talk to them because I felt I was too ugly and
they would perceive my interaction as an approach.
Solitary Soul
>>Do you believe that there is a realistic possibility that you will ever
>>have an intimate relationship?
>
> I hope so but even in having small conversations with women I experience
>tremendous discomfort because of the intimacy and vulnerability of it.
What is the nature of the fear?
How do you hope to ever initiate an intimate relationship
if you can't talk to women?
Do you have any sort of scenario devised as to how this could come to be?
> >Do you have any friends at all?
>
> No, I got rid of my only friend in 1997, he was being psychologically
>abusive to me because he was angry at me for not being more social and more
>normal. He wanted me to go out to bars and clubs with him and I refused to
>leave the house.
Where do you go when you leave the house (other than school)?
>>Do you engage in any fun activities with other people?
>
> No
Life is about having fun - as much fun as you can before you die
- and relationships are about having fun with other people
- if there is no fun in the relationship,
then there is no reason for it to exist - it's not viable.
Why would a girl want to get involved in an intimate LTR with you?
... what do you have to offer her that she can't get from most other guys?
How many people do you think would enjoy living as you do?
(I have asked myself that question, and the answer - for me - is:
very VERY few - hence, I am alone, and I will very likely die alone.)
DudeNEPhx1971
>
> What would being friends with a girl teach me about them?
When you find a partner, its not just a sex partner, you are supposed to be
her friend too, thats what relationship is all about.
You can watch porn and think you can do it, but you cant fake being their
friend, its not easy. So get some experience, make some female friends at
school, work etc.
>That they don't
>like good-looking men? Seriously, I think you are overestimating the value of
>female friends.
You are so dumb when it comes to women, I cant even explain it to you. :)
Robin Catfish
> The essential problem with the guys in this group is that they continue to
> believe such utter horseshit as "women like humor" or "women like
> confidence"...
>
> First of all, is there ANYONE here besides me who will admit that he KNOWS
> which men are good looking when he sees them in public?
>
> The majority of you guys here have ZERO ability to spot good looking men and
> thus when you see an attractive woman with a guy you start speculating that she
> must like him for his A) intelligence B) humor C) something else...
>
> What is your problem? Is male beauty THAT impossible for you to observe and be
> aware of???
>
> Let me tell you....I see male beauty and I observe ZERO ugly guys with
> beautiful women.....ZERO........
So let's recap: jimsummers87/JayCee/Ray hates women, obsessively reads
women's magazines, and is now lecturing straight men on "male beauty!"
Yup - he's a fag alright!
Catfish
Robin Catfish
> sexual value in general and thus ranks you higher...
Note: "social proof" is one of Ray's buggaboos. He's always whining on
about the fact that he can't get a girl, because he can't get a girl.
But he'd be an ugly deformed wart even if he could bribe a prostitute
to be seen in public with him.
Catfish
Jim Summers87
I'm always afraid that they are going to just snap and start yelling insults
at me the way kids in school used to do. It's like I'm standing there bracing
myself for the inevitable verbal assault which is certain to come at any
moment....
>How do you hope to ever initiate an intimate relationship
>if you can't talk to women?
Well, I was talking with this girl on campus and we walked together and
talked all the way from our class to the parking lot which is a pretty long
distance. Honestly though I hated every second of it, there was NO ability to
enjoy it and I really don't see how guys actually have fun around women when
it's really just one long string of TERROR to me......
>Do you have any sort of scenario devised as to how this could come to be?
It can only happen if I figure out a way to stop being so vulnerable and so
sensitive.
>Where do you go when you leave the house (other than school)?
Nowhere else. I drive from school straight to home. I don't even leave the
house all weekend and I don't want to. I don't enjoy being in public.
>Why would a girl want to get involved in an intimate LTR with you?
> ... what do you have to offer her that she can't get from most other guys?
I guess a girl would just use me for my money because I can't offer them
anything else.......
>How many people do you think would enjoy living as you do?
They would hate it but I've lived like this since childhood.
>(I have asked myself that question, and the answer - for me - is:
>very VERY few - hence, I am alone, and I will very likely die alone.)
Have you ever enjoyed being out in public just doing something social??
Jim Summers87
>school, work etc.
They will think I'm hitting on them!!
lm
wrote:
>>make some female friends at
>>school, work etc.
>
> They will think I'm hitting on them!!
If they do then you can just say LJBF to them!!
lm
Jim Summers87
I don't even want to call them a "friend" which is too intimate sounding and
implies that I might want to see her outside of class.
lm
wrote:
>>If they do then you can just say LJBF to them!!
>
> I don't even want to call them a "friend" which is too intimate sounding and
>implies that I might want to see her outside of class.
Wouldn't you? Jim, spending time with people doesn't have to be
intimate, it can be fun. You deserve friends Jim, male and female.
lm
Jim Summers87
>intimate, it can be fun.
Are you kidding? Her jock boyfriend and me wouldn't click, he would hate my
guts and want to kick my ass because he would think I wanted his girlfriend
WHICH I DON'T....
lm
wrote:
>>Wouldn't you? Jim, spending time with people doesn't have to be
Jim, there is rarely a jock boyfriend, and jocks only kick asses in
the movies. You're talking about college. There are dozens of
non-personal reasons to talk to a woman in one of your college
classes.
I think that if you try it you will be surprised to find out how
painless it is. It's uncomfortable and scary but nobody's going to be
angry with you for talking to a woman.
l
Jim Summers87
>non-personal reasons to talk to a woman in one of your college
>classes.
Like what? I'm serious. I don't understand any of this!!!!!
>I think that if you try it you will be surprised to find out how
>painless it is. It's uncomfortable and scary but nobody's going to be
>angry with you for talking to a woman.
I wish I could believe that.......
lm
wrote:
>>There are dozens of
>>non-personal reasons to talk to a woman in one of your college
>>classes.
>
> Like what? I'm serious. I don't understand any of this!!!!!
OK, do you see where you wrote "I don't understand any of this"? If
you feel like that about a class, you could ask someone after class if
they understood it and could they help you with it. Or if you've ever
noticed anyone in your classes looking frustrated or confused, you
could say after class "you looked frustrated, I understand this stuff,
do you need some help with it?"
Besides the actual work, there are just day-to-day things like
directions to a building, or a particular professor's office hours, or
the best route to take to get to [insert downtown landmark here]. When
you enter the class, you could smile at and greet whoever you see.
Don't just look for pretty girls. Talk to anyone. In winter, walk
inside and say "jesus it's cold!" to whoever is right there. Walk
outside and say "mmm it feels good out here" to whoever is right
there. (of course it might not be cold or it might not feel good but
the point is to say out loud exactly what it feels like right then,
without stopping to think or worry).
>>I think that if you try it you will be surprised to find out how
>>painless it is. It's uncomfortable and scary but nobody's going to be
>>angry with you for talking to a woman.
>
> I wish I could believe that.......
>
Try to smile and say "hey" to people every day. No matter who. Pretty,
ugly, guy, girl. Just get comfortable with it. It takes effort, I know
it's scary. But *not* doing it keeps you scared, and *doing* it makes
the fear wear off.
It's so worth it jim, it really is.
lm
Solitary Soul
>>What is the nature of the fear?
>
> I'm always afraid that they are going to just snap and start yelling insults
>at me the way kids in school used to do. It's like I'm standing there bracing
>myself for the inevitable verbal assault which is certain to come at any
>moment....
I know how you can become conditioned to expect that sort of onslaught
- I had to do some "de-programming" of my own.
This becomes a matter of trust - and you are going to have to grant to them
a certain measure of trust in that they won't just snap like that.
Those were kids in school - the women you are talking to now are not kids.
You can trust them not to abuse you like that - keep that in mind.
When you talk to them, focus on what they are talking about,
and think of some good questions to ask them about whatever
it is that they are talking about.
>>How do you hope to ever initiate an intimate relationship
>>if you can't talk to women?
>
> Well, I was talking with this girl on campus and we walked together and
>talked all the way from our class to the parking lot which is a pretty long
>distance.
What were you talking about?
Who did most of the talking? ... you or her?
Was this the Iranian girl that you were telling us about a few weeks ago?
If not, did you ever talk to her? ... find out if she has a boyfriend?
> Honestly though I hated every second of it, there was NO ability to
>enjoy it and I really don't see how guys actually have fun around women when
>it's really just one long string of TERROR to me......
They don't have the same phobias that you do - and they are guys who
do interesting things with interesting people so that they have
something of interest to talk about. I don't get much of a thrill
from talking to perfect strangers, but I don't feel any fear when I do.
I just ... draw a blank.
>>Do you have any sort of scenario devised as to how this could come to be?
>
> It can only happen if I figure out a way to stop being so vulnerable and so
>sensitive.
It all comes down to a matter of trust.
>>Where do you go when you leave the house (other than school)?
>
> Nowhere else. I drive from school straight to home. I don't even leave the
>house all weekend and I don't want to. I don't enjoy being in public.
Is there any place that you would like to go? ... or like to see?
... or like to do?
>>Why would a girl want to get involved in an intimate LTR with you?
>> ... what do you have to offer her that she can't get from most other guys?
>
> I guess a girl would just use me for my money because I can't offer them
>anything else.......
If you cannot rectify this situation, then there is virtually no chance
for you. You need to develop other interests besides hanging out on Usenet
and surfing the web.
>>How many people do you think would enjoy living as you do?
>
> They would hate it but I've lived like this since childhood.
I have too - and if you don't do something to break out of that cycle,
you'll wind up like me - enmeshed in a solitary lifestyle.
>>(I have asked myself that question, and the answer - for me - is:
>>very VERY few - hence, I am alone, and I will very likely die alone.)
>
> Have you ever enjoyed being out in public just doing something social??
Sort of.
My father had season tickets to the Houston Oilers - and we would go
to the home games most of the time. Of course, he's dead now, and the
Oilers have moved to Tennessee. I don't enjoy doing anything in
a crowd - and I don't like crowds that much. I've evolved (or mutated)
into a high-level introvert who never gets bored and never gets lonely,
so I'm not all that motivated to do anything of a social nature.
It looks like you've become quite introverted as well, Jim.
It's my perception that all you want from a relationship with a girl is sex
- almost any guy can give a girl sex, so it becomes a matter of having other
virtues/attributes that will draw a girl's interest - IOW: You need to
have something in the way of common interests with a girl before you can
engage her in the more social aspects required of an intimate LTR.
If attaining any sort of a widely-popular interest would require
a great deal of effort and dedication, then it's questionable as to
whether or not it would be worth the expenditure of that effort.
If all you want from a relationship is sex, then your best option might be
to just learn to do without the sex (whack-off - I'm the KING of whacking-off)
and women in general - then focus your energies on things that bring you pleasure
- to focus on objectives in your life that are realistically achievable.
What are the things that you like to do?
Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
-----------------------------------------------------
Welcome to alt.support.shyness, also known as The *PAIN* Club.
- Solitary Soul
Solitary Soul
>On 21 Oct 2004 22:30:34 GMT, jimsum...@aol.com (Jim Summers87)
>wrote:
>
>>>There are dozens of
>>>non-personal reasons to talk to a woman in one of your college
>>>classes.
>>
>> Like what? I'm serious. I don't understand any of this!!!!!
>
>OK, do you see where you wrote "I don't understand any of this"? If
>you feel like that about a class, you could ask someone after class if
>they understood it and could they help you with it. Or if you've ever
>noticed anyone in your classes looking frustrated or confused, you
>could say after class "you looked frustrated, I understand this stuff,
>do you need some help with it?"
>
>Besides the actual work, there are just day-to-day things like
>directions to a building, or a particular professor's office hours, or
>the best route to take to get to [insert downtown landmark here]. When
>you enter the class, you could smile at and greet whoever you see.
>
>Don't just look for pretty girls. Talk to anyone. In winter, walk
>inside and say "jesus it's cold!" to whoever is right there. Walk
>outside and say "mmm it feels good out here" to whoever is right
>there. (of course it might not be cold or it might not feel good but
>the point is to say out loud exactly what it feels like right then,
>without stopping to think or worry).
OK - ask her about herself: Is she a native to the area? If not,
where is she from? Does she like living in xxxxxxxxx? If she lived
anyplace else (or home for her is another town/country), then ask her
what she misses about xxxxxxx.
>>>I think that if you try it you will be surprised to find out how
>>>painless it is. It's uncomfortable and scary but nobody's going to be
>>>angry with you for talking to a woman.
>>
>> I wish I could believe that.......
>>
>
>Try to smile and say "hey" to people every day. No matter who. Pretty,
>ugly, guy, girl. Just get comfortable with it. It takes effort, I know
>it's scary. But *not* doing it keeps you scared, and *doing* it makes
>the fear wear off.
>
>It's so worth it jim, it really is.
Take an interest in people - it's one of the main reasons why I hang
out in this virtual madhouse of a NG: I can relate to most of the people
in here - as I'm just as loony as the rest of you.
Take an interest in people - and they'll take an interest in you.
Develop some sort of interest of your own - something that you like to
do for fun - and can share it with other people. THAT is what makes you
an interesting person.
Jim Summers87
I was just finding out about her major, what career she wants to have, how
she felt about the class, etc..
>Who did most of the talking? ... you or her?
I was asking a lot of questions just to keep her talking and also the whole
thing was so bold and out of character for me I knew that I wouldn't be able to
speak as well as she could.
>
>Was this the Iranian girl that you were telling us about a few weeks ago?
No, this girl is even better looking which made this so scary for me.
>If not, did you ever talk to her? ... find out if she has a boyfriend?
I gave up on her. She's married.
>Is there any place that you would like to go? ... or like to see?
> ... or like to do?
I enjoy bookstores
>My father had season tickets to the Houston Oilers - and we would go
>to the home games most of the time. Of course, he's dead now, and the
>Oilers have moved to Tennessee.
That's a nice memory from childhood. The people on here don't have many
positive past experiences so you should hang onto that one.
>It's my perception that all you want from >a relationship with a girl is sex
Actually I really would love an intimate relationship with lots of feelings
and deep emotional connection but that terrifies me so I sort of hide behind
this SEX stuff. It's a front to cover up the real me.
>What are the things that you like to do?
I like books about Pirates and the late Middle Ages.
Al
> >What is the nature of the fear?
>
> I'm always afraid that they are going to just snap and start yelling insults
> at me the way kids in school used to do. It's like I'm standing there bracing
> myself for the inevitable verbal assault which is certain to come at any
> moment....
I don't know how old you are, but I presume you're at least a few
years beyond primary (elementary) school. The typical behaviour of
others changes A LOT between the ages of 7 and 21 - most adults just
don't "verbally assult" like that! It's true that kids can be very
cruel, but they tend to grow out of it so you shouldn't expect it now
you're an adult.
If you honestly feel FEAR that this will happen to you then you have a
psychological condition that you should consider seeking treatment
for. Social phobia is definitely treatable and the benefits are well
worth the effort.
If a current attempt at solving a problem fails, what should your
following action be?
1) Keep trying the previously failed solution, despite its
demonstrated lack of efficacy.
2) Try an alternative, with help from an expert.
Option (1) (self-treatment) sounds like you've truly exhausted it.
Time to try something else.
Best of luck
Allan
Jim Summers87
>don't "verbally assult" like that!
What are you basing that on? How do you know?
Everyone keeps saying that Adults are like their own unique race of people.
How is that possible? Wait a minute...so someone goes from Senior year of High
School to Freshman year of College and they become a completely different
HUMAN??? HUH?????????????
How is that even possible??
Robin Catfish
You're 39 years old! Don't tell me (and everyone else) you're still
afraid of being beaten up in the schoolyard!?
Man, are you retarded or what?
Catfish
Solitary Soul
>>What were you talking about?
>
> I was just finding out about her major, what career she wants to have, how
>she felt about the class, etc..
Did you manage to tell her anything about yourself? ... did she ask?
>>Who did most of the talking? ... you or her?
>
> I was asking a lot of questions just to keep her talking and also the whole
>thing was so bold and out of character for me I knew that I wouldn't be able to
>speak as well as she could.
GOOD - you NEED to get "out of character"
- the character that you have now is getting you nowhere.
Get more practice at getting "out of character."
The only way you'll ever improve your verbal skills is to USE THEM.
Like Laura said: TALK to people - to ANYONE - about ANYTHING.
Don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself
- we all do that at one time or another.
I'm very good at making a fool of MYself - I do it often enough in this NG.
<grin>
At some point, you might even level with people that you have some problems
in social situations - most people can be very understanding if you
just give them a chance - take the risk on giving them a certain degree
of trust - and you don't have to trust them COMPLETELY to do that.
If they should betray that trust, then turn your back on them,
and move on with your life - they won't matter in the long run anyway.
>>Was this the Iranian girl that you were telling us about a few weeks ago?
>
> No, this girl is even better looking which made this so scary for me.
Do you sit next to her in class?
>>If not, did you ever talk to her? ... find out if she has a boyfriend?
>
> I gave up on her. She's married.
NO - she can still be your friend - don't just give up on someone
because they are not a potential romantic interest.
Besides that:
Maybe she has a younger sister - or her husband might have a younger sister.
>>Is there any place that you would like to go? ... or like to see?
>> ... or like to do?
>
> I enjoy bookstores
Barnes & Nobles? ... do you have that ... in Atlanta? (is that where you are?)
Why not hang out in the school library after class?
>>My father had season tickets to the Houston Oilers - and we would go
>>to the home games most of the time. Of course, he's dead now, and the
>>Oilers have moved to Tennessee.
>
> That's a nice memory from childhood. The people on here don't have many
>positive past experiences so you should hang onto that one.
Ummmm ... maybe not so positive - my father had this obsession with punctuality.
He would always want to leave so as to get to the game almost an hour
before kick-off. That was always somewhat annoying - having to sit and wait
for that period of time before anything would actually happen.
Also, he was the type who liked to stroke his own ego by tearing down others.
Whenever the Oilers made a bad play (and, being the Houston Oilers, there
were A LOT of bad plays going on down on the field), he would boo them and
call them names - make derogatory remarks - he had a VERY negative personality.
(EXCEPT with other people (my mother always used to comment about how
he was always a totally different person around other people than he was
when he was around her and I.) I think the main reason why he went to the
games was to get in a good round of derision and ridicule towards people
that wouldn't retaliate - as they never really could hear him in the first place.
... to stroke his own ego - and feel superior to someone else.
When we got back home, my mother would always ask him: "So how was the game?"
... and my father's pat response was always: "terrible."
... and they would laugh for some reason.
... and ...
He always wanted to leave in the middle of the fourth quarter - so that he could
beat the traffic in getting out of the stadium area (the Astrodome). One time,
after we had left, the Oilers staged a comeback and won the game - as we listened
to it on the car radio. THAT irritated me as well - the game isn't won until
the end, not at the beginning - and there was always this emphasis on getting
there before the beginning, but not much consideration about the end result.
... but the end result wasn't so much in winning or losing, but in getting
in a good round of derision and ridicule - at least as far as my father was concerned.
Eventually, I just stopped going, as the Oilers had become incompetent losers again
- and it just wasn't any fun anymore. At one point, when my father wanted
to renew the season tickets, I told him to just forget about it
- I didn't want to go anymore.
I can't say that we did any real bonding from the whole thing
- and I never was really close with my father.
What kind of relationship do you have with your father, Jim?
What kinds of things do you do together?
>>It's my perception that all you want from a relationship with a girl is sex
>
> Actually I really would love an intimate relationship with lots of feelings
>and deep emotional connection but that terrifies me so I sort of hide behind
>this SEX stuff. It's a front to cover up the real me.
The problem that I have is that I can't connect with people in general
- so how could I EVER hope to connect with a girl in an intimate LTR?
The only person that I was ever really close to was my mother
- her death hit me pretty hard. She was the only one in the world
who came somewhere close to understanding me - and my issues.
(Hell, she was with me from day 1, and was aware of the influences that
my father had on me - along with the other stuff that went on in my life.)
Everyone else in my family is a bunch of idiots - at least, on my mother's
side of the family - my father's side is OK, but I rarely ever see them
(though I don't actively try to see them - it's the introvert within me).
I'm not really frightened by the possibility of making a deep emotional
connection with someone - it's just that I don't seem to have the capacity
- I don't really know how - and it seems as if I'm missing some crucial
element within my psychological makeup in gaining that capability.
It all boils down to this:
I don't know how to have fun with other people. I've been helping a
friend/associate of mine in moving out of the house that he was renting
- and I was helping him today with a horse that he's getting ready to sell
- but I've been helping him with "the task at hand" in those cases
- I believe that I functioned OK in that capacity, but what we do together
hasn't been of a recreational nature - we don't have any fun with each other
- and a lot of that is because of my narrow interests (shooting and hunting).
As I've stated often enough: Life is about having some fun before you die,
and relationships are about having fun with other people. If you are not
someone who can have fun with other people, then you're fucked (as far
as intimate relationships are concerned). I've led a solitary existence
for all of my life, and that is CERTAINLY a contributing factor.
Trying to gain that capacity might not even be feasible for me - but that's OK:
I don't have a problem with being alone - I've evolved (or mutated) into
a high-level introvert who never gets bored and never gets lonely.
If any woman that I should happen to meet is a "shallow evil bitch"
then it wouldn't matter to me in the least bit;
I'll just keep her at a distance, and go on my solitary way.
If the girl is a bitch, then that's her own problem
- as she will inflict her own miseries upon herself.
The problem with me isn't that a girl might be a "bitch" - it's more
like she probably doesn't have the ability to deal with my "issues"
- to have the capacity to understand me and how I'm put together
- and I wouldn't blame her if she didn't: I'm an extremely difficult
person to understand - and few people can even come close. My mother
knew me better than anyone ever did or probably ever will, yet she
didn't understand me to a great degree - she never really caught on
as to how some of the principles that she and my father instilled
in me would have dire consequences - she didn't understand how their
bigoted and prejudicial inclinations (my parents were very snobbish
and elitist) that they imparted upon me would have a devastating impact
upon my life, and my own capacity to function socially.
When my mother was laying on her death bed - and we all knew that
the cancer was about to kill her and she didn't have much time left
- she lamented to us that she wouldn't live long enough to see me
get married. I laughed and told her that *I* wouldn't live long enough
to see me get married - she should have worried about that back when
I went through my teens and twenties and never even dated (never mind
actually finding someone to love). I told her that it's *WAY* too late to worry
about that now (which was then). They were both totally clueless in many ways.
I was raised by wolves.
>>What are the things that you like to do?
>
> I like books about Pirates and the late Middle Ages.
Actually, this is something that you could build a relationship on.
If you could find a girl who shares a passion with you, then you
have a basis for a LTR. The trick is to find someone who can deal
with your ... "issues" - easier said than done, I know that all too well.
As I stated before: Finding someone who could deal with *MY* "issues"
would be next to impossible.
Have you ever thought about "branching out" into archeology?
... in getting out in the field and digging up the past?
... in getting your hands dirty?
When I was a kid, I had a bit of an interest in paleontology - in dinosaurs.
Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
-----------------------------------------------------
Death was in that poisonous wave,
And in its gulf a fitting grave
For him who thence could solace bring
To his lone imagining --
Whose solitary soul could make
An Eden of that dim lake.
"The Lake" - by Edgar Allan Poe
Jim Summers87
>Did you manage to tell her anything about yourself? ... did she ask?
>
Yes, I told her about my teenage dream of being a sportscaster. She said,
"That sounds cool."
>Do you sit next to her in class?
Yes
>Barnes & Nobles? ... do you have that ... in Atlanta? (is that where you
>are?)
Yes, there are many of those in Atlanta..yes, I'm in Atlanta...
>Why not hang out in the school library after class?
I do sometimes...
>he had a VERY negative personality.
>(EXCEPT with other people (my mother always used to comment about how
>he was always a totally different person around other people than he was
>when he was around her and I.
Incredible, that's exactly like my father!!!
What causes that?
> ... but the end result wasn't so much in winning or losing, but in getting
>in a good round of derision and ridicule - at least as far as my father was
>concerned.
What fueled his anger? Did he have a bad childhood?
>What kind of relationship do you have with your father, Jim?
A bad one, he can't tolerate any opinions besides his own. He won't even
debate something in a reasonable way, he just yells at you and eventually
pushes you so much that you start arguing back in just as violent a tone as he
has.
>What kinds of things do you do together?
We used to go to the Georgia Bulldogs college football games on Saturdays
when I was a kid. He would ruin the whole weekend if they lost.
>The only person that I was ever really close to was my mother
> - her death hit me pretty hard. She was the only one in the world
>who came somewhere close to understanding me - and my issues.
Did your mother ever ask you why you didn't date or look for girlfriends?
> If you are not
>someone who can have fun with other people, then you're fucked (as far
>as intimate relationships are concerned). I've led a solitary existence
>for all of my life, and that is CERTAINLY >a contributing factor.
Do you think that your father's behavior of criticizing you made you feel
disconnected from people?
>The problem with me isn't that a girl might be a "bitch" - it's more
>like she probably doesn't have the ability to deal with my "issues"
> - to have the capacity to understand me and how I'm put together
Yes, normal women can't relate to these deep seated emotional wounds we
have.
>she didn't understand how their
>bigoted and prejudicial inclinations (my parents were very snobbish
>and elitist) that they imparted upon me would have a devastating impact
>upon my life, and my own capacity to function socially.
Didn't they give you certain extreme religious views such as "Rock music is
Satanic"??? This is why kids at school hated you???
>They were both totally clueless in many ways.
They must have grown up in a completely different era and had no idea how
foreign their views were in the modern world you were living in. It had to be
pretty tough going to school preaching values from the 1890's around other
teenagers in the late 1970's. I bet they made your life HELL. Did kids insult
you a lot? What would they say about you?
>Have you ever thought about "branching out" into archeology?
> ... in getting out in the field and digging up the past?
> ... in getting your hands dirty?
Yes, I'm very interested in that. Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc...I would love
that...
Solitary Soul
>>
>>Did you manage to tell her anything about yourself? ... did she ask?
>
> Yes, I told her about my teenage dream of being a sportscaster. She said,
>"That sounds cool."
*boggle*
A sportscaster?
That's not exactly an occupation for shy people.
Do you still hang on to this dream? ... do you think you're up to it?
I didn't realize that you had an interest in sports.
Any sport in particular?
Is there a sportscaster that you admire in particular?
>>Do you sit next to her in class?
>
> Yes
Which class is this? ... in what subject?
>>Barnes & Nobles? ... do you have that ... in Atlanta? (is that where you
>>are?)
>
> Yes, there are many of those in Atlanta..yes, I'm in Atlanta...
OK - then why not just hang out in one close to campus after class?
>>Why not hang out in the school library after class?
>
> I do sometimes...
Why not ask the girl in your ______ class to study together at the library?
Does your library have any private rooms for meetings?
>>he had a VERY negative personality.
>>(EXCEPT with other people (my mother always used to comment about how
>>he was always a totally different person around other people than he was
>>when he was around her and I.
>
> Incredible, that's exactly like my father!!!
Take a look around at this group, and notice how many of the posters in here
have had a difficult relationship with their fathers (or parents):
You, me, Frank, Bernie, Victor, Babs, Darkfalz, ... and Kitz.
That's a recurring theme in here - that's the most significant source
of the damage - the most significant factor - and it's common to many
of the worst cases in this group.
> What causes that?
Perhaps life didn't measure up to their expectations - maybe they are/were
missing something that they had lost - who really knows? It all depends on
the person, as everyone is unique, and the product of their own unique
set of circumstances - maybe genetics play a role.
>> ... but the end result wasn't so much in winning or losing, but in getting
>>in a good round of derision and ridicule - at least as far as my father was
>>concerned.
>
> What fueled his anger? Did he have a bad childhood?
It was probably due to feelings of inadequacy - he felt himself to be
inferior in some ways, so he needed to take it out on others. My father
wasn't very intelligent - he was successful in business, but a lot of
that was due to working hard and knowing the right people. As I alluded to before:
He was a different person around other people - he was a pretty good shmoozer
- he was "a good ol' boy" from the country that everyone tended to like
when he wanted them to like him - he had a certain degree of charisma
that he could turn on when he needed to.
>>What kind of relationship do you have with your father, Jim?
>
> A bad one, he can't tolerate any opinions besides his own. He won't even
>debate something in a reasonable way, he just yells at you and eventually
>pushes you so much that you start arguing back in just as violent a tone as he
>has.
Does he do this with everyone? ... or just you in particular?
In the last years of his life, about half of the words that my father
and I spoke to each other were done in anger - we were always yelling
at each other about something.
>>What kinds of things do you do together?
>
> We used to go to the Georgia Bulldogs college football games on Saturdays
>when I was a kid. He would ruin the whole weekend if they lost.
He identified with the team. Their defeat was an affront to his pride.
Was he an alumnus?
Did the two of you do anything else besides the games?
Did you ever go off on family vacations?
>>The only person that I was ever really close to was my mother
>> - her death hit me pretty hard. She was the only one in the world
>>who came somewhere close to understanding me - and my issues.
>
> Did your mother ever ask you why you didn't date or look for girlfriends?
It was largely discouraged in my house. My parents told me that if I
ever got a girl pregnant, then I would be thrown out of the house.
Another time they told me that I would have to marry any girl that
I got pregnant. As far as dating goes, my mother told me that: "There would
be plenty of time for that sort of thing later" (like after I finished school
- she wanted me to finish school before I even thought about
having an intimate relationship). No prob - I managed to please them
in that regard. *snort*
IOW: My parents were unconcerned - to say the least - until it was too late.
>> If you are not
>>someone who can have fun with other people, then you're fucked (as far
>>as intimate relationships are concerned). I've led a solitary existence
>>for all of my life, and that is CERTAINLY a contributing factor.
>
> Do you think that your father's behavior of criticizing you made you feel
>disconnected from people?
It damages self-esteem - my father was always picking at me, and highly
critical of me - never offering me much in the way of praise.
He made me feel like a POS, so I was an easy target for the vultures
in middle school and high school. I took a lot of abuse from those bastards,
but I survived it.
My high school sent me several queries as to my current situation for some sort
of an alumnus directory that they are putting out. I threw them all away
- they'll get nothing from me - as far as I'm concerned, they can fuck off.
>>The problem with me isn't that a girl might be a "bitch" - it's more
>>like she probably doesn't have the ability to deal with my "issues"
>> - to have the capacity to understand me and how I'm put together
>
> Yes, normal women can't relate to these deep seated emotional wounds we
>have.
... and it would be unrealistic to expect them to do so.
IOW: We are def-fin-net-ly fucked.
>>she didn't understand how their
>>bigoted and prejudicial inclinations (my parents were very snobbish
>>and elitist) that they imparted upon me would have a devastating impact
>>upon my life, and my own capacity to function socially.
>
> Didn't they give you certain extreme religious views such as "Rock music is
>Satanic"??? This is why kids at school hated you???
They had their religious views, but their system of values wasn't really
based so much on religion, as it was on their elitism. It became a matter
of hating Rock Music not on religious terms, but that it was "inferior"
and "bad taste" to listen to it - and it didn't stop with contemporary music
- nor with movies (we never did go out to see movies,
and I never went with any friends, as I really didn't have any friends
in the first place) - and the standard was extended to include
people who didn't dress nice or speak proper English
(my mother was ALWAYS correcting me if I didn't use proper English
- and FORGET about using "swear words" in the house that I grew up in).
It was all about using shame and ridicule to force compliance to their
standards for proper behavior - not to mention the whippings with a
pants belt when more severe disciplinary actions were called for.
They couldn't ground me as I didn't do anything that they could
ground me from doing.
So, while all of my classmates came to school wearing blue jeans,
boots (or tennis shoes), and t-shirts, I came up in my print shirts,
slacks, hush puppies (loafers), speaking proper English, never using
"swear words," hating Rock music, absolutely clueless about the movies
and popular icons of the time - I was a GRADE A DORK who had absolutely
nothing in common with them - a misfit of the highest order.
A lot of this is elaborated upon further at my website:
http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/webpage/solsoul/was/ffactr.htm
> They must have grown up in a completely different era and had no idea how
>foreign their views were in the modern world you were living in. It had to be
>pretty tough going to school preaching values from the 1890's around other
>teenagers in the late 1970's. I bet they made your life HELL. Did kids insult
>you a lot? What would they say about you?
My mother was 41 when I was born, and I was born on my father's 49'th birthday
- we shared the same birthday - and the same name - I was "Junior"
- which made things even worse.
Yes, their system of values was from the early 1900's - while I was growing
up in the 1970's - so I was mostly out of touch - as they were.
In addition to what I wrote above, I was terrified of incurring my father's wrath.
He had a quick temper, and it didn't take much to set him off - then I would
get my ass whipped with a pants belt (my father was a large man, and he
could inflict some major pain with that belt). I was throughly intimidated by him,
and it made me very easy *TO* intimidate - and that made me a favorite target
for every bully in the school. I tried to be the class clown,
but when that didn't work, I just kept a low profile and slipped through
high school mostly unnoticed. Of course, that included not getting all that
close to anyone - especially girls - I didn't want to compete with the other guys
- as that would draw unwanted attention to myself - "blow my cover"
- as I couldn't compete with the other guys anyway. I had no problem with
talking to the prettiest girls in my high school, but the problem was that
I had nothing to offer any of those girls had I managed to get one interested
in having a relationship with me; I could talk to them easily enough,
but I had nothing of any substance to say to them - I couldn't relate to them,
nor them to me, as I was a mutant - and still am to a great extent.
When I got to college, I just maintained my anonymity for the most part
- I was glad to find out that college could afford me that degree of anonymity.
... again, it's all at my website.
>>Have you ever thought about "branching out" into archeology?
>> ... in getting out in the field and digging up the past?
>> ... in getting your hands dirty?
>
> Yes, I'm very interested in that. Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc...I would love
>that...
OK - of course you know that only professors in the field get paid well
- but if that's what you have a passion for, then I think you should
go for it.
Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
-----------------------------------------------------
Jim Summers87
>
>That's not exactly an occupation for shy people.
>
>Do you still hang on to this dream? ... do you think you're up to it?
As I got older I realized that there would be too much social interaction
involved for it to really work.
>I didn't realize that you had an interest in sports.
>
>Any sport in particular?
Baseball
>Is there a sportscaster that you admire in particular?
I really loved Harry Carey from the Chicago Cubs broadcasts, I used to watch
those Cubs games on WGN Cable and I really liked his down-to-earth style...I
admired how well he communicated socially with people and wished that I could
be that casual.....he was always cracking jokes and taking life easy...he was a
fun guy..
>Which class is this? ... in what subject?
American Literature
>OK - then why not just hang out in one close to campus after class?
I probably should, I usually feel better if I do something besides just
school...
>Why not ask the girl in your ______ class to study together at the library?
It's a good idea but I'll wait a few more weeks of talking to her to see if
she still likes me....
>Does your library have any private rooms for meetings?
Yes
>My father
>wasn't very intelligent - he was successful in business, but a lot of
>that was due to working hard and knowing the right people. As I alluded to
>before:
>He was a different person around other people - he was a pretty good shmoozer
- he was "a good ol' boy" from the country that everyone tended to like
>when he wanted them to like him - he had a certain degree of charisma
>that he could turn on when he needed to.
Wow, that's my Dad also....not really that intelligent but tried so hard to
overcompensate and impress people. I wish people would just learn to accept
that they can't be good at everything. It would be nice if guys like them could
take being dumb in stride and not ruin their lives (or their children's lives)
over it.
>Does he do this with everyone? ... or just you in particular?
Only everyone in the family, very much like your father, he was Mr."nice
guy" with people at work but pure HELL at home...
>He identified with the team. Their defeat was an affront to his pride.
>
>Was he an alumnus?
Yes
>Did the two of you do anything else besides the games?
No, that was all we did together. He usually never wanted to be around me
unless it was to be an expert and prove how smart he was. My dad NEVER talked
about subjects that he didn't know anything about...there could be 15 subjects
that a normal family might discuss but my father would focus obsessively on the
ONE thing he knew which was The Vietnam War.
Because he had served a few months in the national guard during the late
1960's he thought he was entitled to act like a VETERAN even though of course
he was never in a SINGLE BATTLE....
My dad would speak negatively around our house about anyone who opposed the
Vietnam War..he would call them "pussies", "cowards", and "girls"..if he saw a
guy on TV who he remembered had opposed the Vietnam War, my dad would start
pointing at the TV screen and call the guy "A worthless piece of shit"..or a
"traitor"...it didn't take much for my Dad to call someone a "traitor" to the
government.
My dad was overflowing with all of this RAGE patriotism even though he
didn't fire a single shot. My dad liked nothing in the world besides politics
and patriotism..he didn't even own any books or express interest in anything
else. In our house the idea of writing, reading, music, etc. was like a foreign
space invasion...it simply didn't exist...I've honestly never seen my father
read a book or show any interest in art of any form...
>Did you ever go off on family vacations?
Oh God, those trips were nightmares. My whole family would fight for the
entire trip. My dad got really BAD on trips because he hated spending any money
on us. If he didn't like something, it shouldn't be bought...it didn't matter
what we wanted..
>My high school sent me several queries as to my current situation for some
>sort
>of an alumnus directory that they are putting out. I threw them all away
> - they'll get nothing from me - as far as I'm concerned, they can fuck off.
That's how I feel also.
>Yes, their system of values was from the early 1900's - while I was growing
>up in the 1970's - so I was mostly out of touch - as they were.
They didn't care that you were a misfit? Did you tell them how you weren't
fitting in?
tinyurl.com/uh3t
> is there ANYONE here besides me who will admit that he KNOWS which
> men are good looking when he sees them in public?
The only way to KNOW somebody is attractive is to be attracted yourself
to that person. If you're not attracted to somebody you think that
person is attracted, then what are you talking about? Most likely you
have some stereotype in your mind about what *other* people,
specifically women, would find attractive. But you're just guessing if
you go by that stereotype. There's no way you can actually KNOW whether
women would find a guy attractive or not.
I'm not homosexual. I just don't find men attractive. In my whole life
there were only about five men I thought looked cute, but not one of
them really good looking. So there's no way I could possibly KNOW that
some particular man is attractive. So do you find men attractive, so
that you could really KNOW a particular man is attractive?
Even if you KNOW a man is attractive because you are personally
attracted to him, still that's just your personal opinion. Beauty is in
the eyes of the beholder. Your opinion doesn't carry to other people's
opinions. Just because you find a man attractive to you doesn't mean
he's attractive to anyone else.
> when you see an attractive woman with a guy you start speculating
> that she must like him for his A) intelligence B) humor C)
> something else...
Do you think everyone here is as stupid as you? When I see an
attractive woman with a man in an obviously romantic situation, I
speculate that she personally finds him attractive, although I can't
see what she sees in him, or that he has money and basically "buys" her
attention, or he got her pregnant when she was drunk and she's trying
to rescue the situation by getting him to support their children, or
that she found him attractive at some time in the past and fell in love
with him and hasn't yet fallen out of love now that he's turned ugly.
But mostly I don't waste my time speculating about such matters.
Only stupid people like you waste their time with such speculation.
Jim Summers87
>have some stereotype in your mind about what *other* people,
>specifically women, would find attractive. But you're just guessing if
>you go by that stereotype.
WRONG, I'm seeing the types of women that guys who look a certain way are
attracting. From that I'm discovering various looks in men which are ALWAYS
regarded as good-looking by a majority of women.
>There's no way you can actually KNOW whether
>women would find a guy attractive or not.
WRONG, if I see men with a certain standard look and they are attracting
good looking women I then realize that this specific male look appeals to good
looking women...
>So there's no way I could possibly KNOW that
>some particular man is attractive.
Yes you can easily by judging whether women are attracted to him and by thus
studying how highly these women are in looks themselves. If a guy with a
certain look can only attract unattractive women, he himself must be
UNATTRACTIVE...this is easy enough to understand...
>So do you find men attractive, so
>that you could really KNOW a particular man is attractive?
I judge whether a man is attractive or not based on how attractive his wife
or girlfriend is. A gorgeous woman would not romantically pair off with an ugly
man...again, this is not difficult to understand...
>Even if you KNOW a man is attractive because you are personally
>attracted to him,
I am not attracted to any man. A man is either attractive or unattractive
because WOMEN determine so...
>Beauty is in
>the eyes of the beholder.
Surely you can't be so blind? Show me some muscular jocks who have those
blocky headed aggressive faces and deep tans that don't attract women? I've
never seen ANY guy who looked like that who didn't have beautiful woman ALL
OVER HIM.....obviously certain male looks are desired by women....this isn't a
matter of opinion.....Numerous times in High School I was told by girls that IF
ONLY I had a deep tan and large muscles, I would be attractive so obviously
looking like that is considered MORE ATTRACTIVE
>Just because you find a man attractive to you doesn't mean
>he's attractive to anyone else.
I don't find any man attractive but women like specific male looks...prove me
wrong..
>But mostly I don't waste my time speculating about such matters.
>Only stupid people like you waste their time with such speculation.
Only retarded morons like you don't know that there is a STANDARD look which
is ALWAYS regarded as attractive to most women...it's called muscular, tanned,
blocky-faced, JOCK......those guys get laid everywhere they go and by hundreds
of women if they want to live that way....
Next you will try to pretend that most men just LOVE fat chicks...is it
"speculation" to say that most men like women with nice in-shape bodies?
GOOD FUCK YOURSELF, you pile of CRAP...
Give it up, loser, this is SCIENCE and science NEVER LIES.....
tnh421
"Jim Summers87" <jimsum...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041021170019...@mb-m14.aol.com...
You wouldn't know a woman if you tripped over one. But I'm sure you would
know a cute guy. Especially if you fell face first into his crotch.
Jim Summers87
>know a cute guy.
Everyone knows them, they get the hot girls or do you not notice that???
Solitary Soul
>>A sportscaster?
>>
>>That's not exactly an occupation for shy people.
>>
>>Do you still hang on to this dream? ... do you think you're up to it?
>
> As I got older I realized that there would be too much social interaction
>involved for it to really work.
Good call.
>>I didn't realize that you had an interest in sports.
>>
>>Any sport in particular?
>
>
> Baseball
The Atlanta Braves - it figures.
I was watching on TV when Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's all-time home run record.
That was awesome.
The Houston Astros *FINALLY* beat the Braves in a playoff series
- only to blow it in the NLCS - I'm still bummed out over that one. :-(
The Astros have NEVVVVER played in a World Series, and if something
isn't done about the disparity of revenues (and/or player salaries),
it's doubtful that they ever will - the Houston market is too small
to generate the revenues that it takes to sign AND KEEP the caliber
of talent that it takes to challenge the teams in the larger markets
on a consistent basis. It's highly questionable if the Astros can
hang on to Carlos Beltran (he's a free agent now and will be commanding
big huge bucks in the market) - though there's a grass-roots movement
underway in the Houston community to do that - time will tell if
it'll make any difference. It wouldn't surprise me if he wound up
playing for the Braves.
Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell are reaching the end of their careers.
Jeff Bagwell has an arthritic right shoulder - he has no strength in it
- and it greatly limits him to the point that he can't contribute any longer.
He can barely throw a baseball - at least, not with much velocity.
It's a sad thing that he'll have to deal with, but, will all those millions
in the bank, I think he'll be OK.
In any case ...
Have you ever been to any sports bars to watch baseball games?
>>Is there a sportscaster that you admire in particular?
>
> I really loved Harry Carey from the Chicago Cubs broadcasts, I used to watch
>those Cubs games on WGN Cable and I really liked his down-to-earth style...I
>admired how well he communicated socially with people and wished that I could
>be that casual.....he was always cracking jokes and taking life easy...he was a
>fun guy..
Whenever you're alone, why don't you try talking to yourself - maybe while
driving in your car or something. Talk about ANYTHING that might
pop into your head at the time - and adopt Harry Carey's style of delivery
- and his personality traits. I know that sounds crazy,
but you have to do SOMETHING to get some practice at verbal communication.
Just pretend that there's another person (girl) with you - and carry on
an imaginary conversation with them. It helped me to an extent
- I don't feel any fear or apprehension when I'm talking to people
- I just can't think of anything to say at the time
- and there are periods of awkward silence.
>>Which class is this? ... in what subject?
>
> American Literature
Do you have any interest in the subject?
... or are you just fulfilling the obligation in taking the class?
>>OK - then why not just hang out in one close to campus after class?
>
> I probably should, I usually feel better if I do something besides just
>school...
Do your homework/reading assignments at Barnes and Nobles
- if you don't do it at the campus library.
*thinks about this for a moment*
On second thought, it might be better to do it down at the campus library,
as you would be more likely to meet classmates who might go there
- like ... maybe the girl in the Literature class - if you can't build
up the nerve to ask her outright to join you.
Holing up at home isn't going to give you the opportunity to develop
any social skills - take it from someone who did just that. I started
to develop something in the way of social proficiency once I started
up in the Computer Science program - and started spending long periods
of time down at the computing center, working on my programming assignments
within close proximity to my fellow students - it was often a mob scene down
there. The problem was that there weren't very many attractive girls
in the CS department, and there was a lot of competition over the few that were
- and, of course, I could not compete.
I would think that you would have a better ratio of women to men in the
history/archeology department - but there's still the matter of developing
the social proficiency to interact with them - that will take time and effort
- and a willingness to face your fears - and CONQUER them!
>>Why not ask the girl in your ______ class to study together at the library?
>
> It's a good idea but I'll wait a few more weeks of talking to her to see if
>she still likes me....
OK - but don't procrastinate for too much longer - you are reaching the
end of the current semester, and if it turns out that there is something
developing in the way of a relationship, you'll want to try and get
into a class with her for next semester.
Ummm ...
Do you know if she's unattached?
>>Does your library have any private rooms for meetings?
>
> Yes
Perrrrrrrr-fect.
>>My father
>>wasn't very intelligent - he was successful in business, but a lot of
>>that was due to working hard and knowing the right people. As I alluded to
>>before:
>>He was a different person around other people - he was a pretty good shmoozer
>- he was "a good ol' boy" from the country that everyone tended to like
>>when he wanted them to like him - he had a certain degree of charisma
>>that he could turn on when he needed to.
>
> Wow, that's my Dad also....not really that intelligent but tried so hard to
>overcompensate and impress people. I wish people would just learn to accept
>that they can't be good at everything. It would be nice if guys like them could
>take being dumb in stride and not ruin their lives (or their children's lives)
>over it.
If he's successful at business, then I doubt if he's all that dumb.
I get the impression that he's been successful because of the money
that you've told us about in posts in the past - or did he get the
money from a source of some kind without actually working for it?
I mean, give him credit for THAT. I give my father credit in that
he didn't do very many stupid things financially (although there
IS one thing he did that was not a very bright thing to do)
- and he DID work hard, using whatever personal resources that
he had to the best of his ability.
My father made A LOT of mistakes in the way I was raised, but I believe
that, ultimately, he REALLY DID love me (as he had the capacity to do so),
and always wanted the best for me - he did what he could for me.
That our respective fathers were unable to realize the extent of
their own limitations isn't something that we could really fault them for
- if someone doesn't have the capacity to do something, then you can't
expect them to do any more than they are capable of doing. That guys
like you and I get screwed in the process is our own tough luck
- but we have certain advantages over most other people in the sense
that we are better positioned financially: Look at the money as
compensation for the way that we were screwed up.
I feel sorry for guys like Victor - who was/is raised by a psycho-dad
- and doesn't have the financial support that we have - and too
socially dysfunctional to procure most forms of employment.
Guys like him are REALLY screwed. A lot of the time, those guys just
say "fuck it all" and off themselves - I would have probably done
the same thing several years ago if not for the positives in my life
- I can't blame them.
(I wonder where Frank C is? A lot of what I'm posting here would
apply to his situation as well.)
What line of business is your father in?
Is he self-employed?
>>Does he do this with everyone? ... or just you in particular?
>
> Only everyone in the family, very much like your father, he was Mr."nice
>guy" with people at work but pure HELL at home...
Does your mother fight with him often? ... or is she "the good little housewife"
who stays out of his way? ... and remains silent?
(I'm working off of the assumption that your mother doesn't hold
any sort of employment of her own - or is this a family-business
situation where she works with your father?)
>>He identified with the team. Their defeat was an affront to his pride.
>>
>>Was he an alumnus?
>
> Yes
That's what I thought - the football team "represents" him
- and he's the type who CAN'T STAND to lose
- it's an affront to his pride when the team loses.
>>Did the two of you do anything else besides the games?
>
> No, that was all we did together. He usually never wanted to be around me
>unless it was to be an expert and prove how smart he was. My dad NEVER talked
>about subjects that he didn't know anything about...there could be 15 subjects
>that a normal family might discuss but my father would focus obsessively on the
>ONE thing he knew which was The Vietnam War.
My father never really did discuss any topic of conversation with me.
Basically, the only time he talked to me was to criticize me about something.
> Because he had served a few months in the national guard during the late
>1960's he thought he was entitled to act like a VETERAN even though of course
>he was never in a SINGLE BATTLE....
>
> My dad would speak negatively around our house about anyone who opposed the
>Vietnam War..he would call them "pussies", "cowards", and "girls"..if he saw a
>guy on TV who he remembered had opposed the Vietnam War, my dad would start
>pointing at the TV screen and call the guy "A worthless piece of shit"..or a
>"traitor"...it didn't take much for my Dad to call someone a "traitor" to the
>government.
I guess it would be safe to assume that he isn't voting for John Kerry, right?
<grin>
Your father would have really liked my father. On the subject of the Viet Nam War,
my father once said that this nation was "pussy-footing" in that war
- my father thought that the US should have NUKED the Viet Cong.
He was clueless as to the ramifications of doing such a thing.
My father was in the steel business. He procured several government contracts
for the steel company that he worked for - mainly for several of the ICBM
missile silos.
> My dad was overflowing with all of this RAGE patriotism even though he
>didn't fire a single shot. My dad liked nothing in the world besides politics
>and patriotism..he didn't even own any books or express interest in anything
>else. In our house the idea of writing, reading, music, etc. was like a foreign
>space invasion...it simply didn't exist...I've honestly never seen my father
>read a book or show any interest in art of any form...
For my father, his only real diversion was his cattle-ranching operation,
along with hunting with his buddies out in West Texas. He would read newspapers,
so he wasn't totally uninformed.
>>Did you ever go off on family vacations?
>
> Oh God, those trips were nightmares. My whole family would fight for the
>entire trip. My dad got really BAD on trips because he hated spending any money
>on us. If he didn't like something, it shouldn't be bought...it didn't matter
>what we wanted..
Tight-fisted with money - my father would nickel and dime the cattle operation
to the point that it would drive me crazy. Whenever a bull would tear up a fence,
we would have to clean out the brush that had grown up into the fence before
we could repair it. We used axes, pruners, and machetes to accomplish this
(actually, the machete was my idea) - and when you get out in the hot and humid
summers here in south Texas to do that, it got to be pretty brutal - it was
definitely not my idea of fun.
After his death, and I took over the operation, one of the first things I did
was to spend $300 on a small chainsaw - an Echo 3000 - VERY light, portable
- I can operate it with one hand - almost like a carving knife.
THAT was money well-spent. I used the HELL out of that saw, cleaning out A LOT
of fence rows in the years that followed. There was NO WAY IN HELL that I could EVER
convince my father to make a purchase like that. I couldn't even get him to maintain
what he had. When it came to the tractors and implements, he did not know the meaning
of the word "maintenance" - he didn't want to spend the money - but he didn't understand
that if you didn't fix a small problem with a machine, that it would eventually
lead to a BIG problem - and then he would have to spend MORE money to get the
machine operational again.
We never really did take family vacations - other than a few when I was a small kid
- which I can vaguely remember. All we did was to come out here to this place,
on week-ends and holidays - where I could run around and shoot stuff, first with
a BB gun, then a .22, then, progressively, to larger calibers. I did that when
my father didn't collar me to help him with the cattle operation - to go clean
out fence rows - out in the hot hot sun ... fun fun fun.
>>My high school sent me several queries as to my current situation for some
>>sort of an alumnus directory that they are putting out. I threw them all
>>away - they'll get nothing from me - as far as I'm concerned, they can
>>fuck off.
>
> That's how I feel also.
>
>
>>Yes, their system of values was from the early 1900's - while I was growing
>>up in the 1970's - so I was mostly out of touch - as they were.
>
> They didn't care that you were a misfit?
They never realized that I was (a misfit). I was conforming to their standards,
and that was all they cared about.
"Oh look, everyone is out of step except for my little Johnny."
... said the proud mother standing along the parade route.
> Did you tell them how you weren't fitting in?
No - I was throughly brainwashed - I was coopted into their mind set.
I was as snobbish and elitist as they were - I didn't care that I didn't fit in,
and I was just as oblivious as they were as to the long-term consequences
of maintaining that mind set. I just withdrew into my own little world and
shut everything else out. As a small kid, I used TV as my escape mechanism.
When I got older, I then got into shooting and hunting in a big way.
I was totally self-absorbed and self-centered - and incapable of functioning
in even superficial relationships with guys my age - and forget about
having any girlfriends. I had my fun, on my own, and the rest of the world
didn't really matter to me.
It wasn't until I was in my later years that I began to figure it all out
- that I began to see just what went wrong, and why. By then, it was too late
- the damage had been done.
Sometimes I think that potential parents should be made to take some sort of
a test to determine their suitability as parents - and, if they don't pass it,
they should be sterilized - or to be prohibited from procreating.
I have serious doubts if I have what it takes to raise children
- to be a good parent. Of course, it would be extremely difficult for
me to have children by myself, so I guess it's a moot point
- it's pretty much academic.
Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
-----------------------------------------------------
"Most of the people here have no hope in them they'll be allowed
into the humanity club and just hate everybody for keeping them out.
The truth is now we keep ourselves out."
- Bandaid, 02-01-04
Solitary Soul
>So let's recap: jimsummers87/JayCee/Ray hates women, obsessively reads
>women's magazines, and is now lecturing straight men on "male beauty!"
>Yup - he's a fag alright!
That you're so obsessed with him makes me wonder about you.
Solitary Soul
> Surely you can't be so blind? Show me some muscular jocks who have those
>blocky headed aggressive faces and deep tans that don't attract women? I've
>never seen ANY guy who looked like that who didn't have beautiful woman ALL
>OVER HIM.....obviously certain male looks are desired by women....this isn't a
>matter of opinion.....Numerous times in High School I was told by girls that IF
>ONLY I had a deep tan and large muscles, I would be attractive so obviously
>looking like that is considered MORE ATTRACTIVE
Hey Jim: Have you ever considered getting into weight training?
I took a class in weight lifting in my college days (for a credit in PE).
If nothing else, I would think that your father would approve
- he might even get you a set of weights so that you could work out at home.
Otherwise, I would also think that you could get access to the weight room
at your university.
Getting a tan isn't a problem: Just slop on some sun-screen and lay out
in the sun for a little while each day.
Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/
-----------------------------------------------------
tnh421
> >But I'm sure you would
>>know a cute guy.
>
> Everyone knows them, they get the hot girls or do you not notice that???
I think I notice a lot more than you do except when it comes to 'male
beauty'.
tnh421
"Robin Catfish" <beauregard...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5032572d.04102...@posting.google.com...
BINGO !!!!!!
Give that Catfish a cigar !
tnh421
> >
>>Did you manage to tell her anything about yourself? ... did she ask?
>>
>
> Yes, I told her about my teenage dream of being a sportscaster. She said,
> "That sounds cool."
>
>>Do you sit next to her in class?
>
> Yes
>
>
>>Barnes & Nobles? ... do you have that ... in Atlanta? (is that where you
>>are?)
>
> Yes, there are many of those in Atlanta..yes, I'm in Atlanta...
>
>>
Go fuck your sister and get it over with already. If she's not home try the
cow.
tnh421
> >A sportscaster?
>>
>>That's not exactly an occupation for shy people.
>>
>>Do you still hang on to this dream? ... do you think you're up to it?
>
> As I got older I realized that there would be too much social interaction
> involved for it to really work.
>
>
>>I didn't realize that you had an interest in sports.
>>
>>Any sport in particular?
>
>
> Baseball
>
>
>>Is there a sportscaster that you admire in particular?
>
> I really loved Harry Carey from the Chicago Cubs broadcasts, I used to
> watch
> those Cubs games on WGN Cable and I really liked his down-to-earth
> style...I
> admired how well he communicated socially with people and wished that I
> could
> be that casual.....he was always cracking jokes and taking life easy...he
> was a
> fun guy..
>
Harry Carey was a drooling moron.
The Babaloughesian
> >
> >Did you manage to tell her anything about yourself? ... did she ask?
> >
>
> Yes, I told her about my teenage dream of being a sportscaster. She
said,
> "That sounds cool."
>
> >Do you sit next to her in class?
>
> Yes
>
>
> >Barnes & Nobles? ... do you have that ... in Atlanta? (is that where you
> >are?)
>
> Yes, there are many of those in Atlanta..yes, I'm in Atlanta...
Interesting. How accurate would you say Eric Pepke's evaluation (below) of
Atlanta is?
"If you are shy and live in Atlanta, get the fuck out of Atlanta! I mean
it.
Actually, if you're a human being at all and not a sociopath, get the fuck
out of Atlanta. I suppose it's possible to live there if you have imported
a family, but otherwise, it's the absolute pits.
I'm ex-shy and so have some social skills. I'm pretty good at making
friends. I can even get to the lover stage with reasonable alacrity, if
that is one is interested in. But even lacking that, I can make friends.
I've lived in a lot of places, and out of all of them, Atlanta is the worst
for meeting people or engaging in any level of social interaction. People
in Atlanta seem to be incredibly cliquish and welded at the hip to their own
social circle. Anywhere else but Atlanta, I can make a reasonable circle of
friends in a few days. In Atlanta, after two years, I was still unable to
make any friends.
I've even managed to talk to a lot of people in Atlanta, and they agree."
--Eric Pepke, http://snipurl.com/41o1
Al
> > news:<20041022015642...@mb-m01.aol.com>...
> >> >most adults just
> >> >don't "verbally assult" like that!
> >>
> >> What are you basing that on? How do you know?
> >>
> >> Everyone keeps saying that Adults are like their own unique race of
> >> people.
> >> How is that possible? Wait a minute...so someone goes from Senior year of
> >> High
> >> School to Freshman year of College and they become a completely different
> >> HUMAN??? HUH?????????????
> >>
> >> How is that even possible??
Jim, please hear me out. You've obviously taken a small part of what
I said and not read it in the context of the whole post. I'm basing
it on my life - which is a life of a person who used to be shy as a
child and teenager and is no longer shy as an adult. My story is
quite common Jim. It might be different to your story, but it's just
as real.
One of the first things I recognised as I worked towards changing from
shy to less shy was that generally speaking (there are of course
exceptions) other people do not have it in for me, and often have good
intentions towards others. OK, so that's an assumption, but it's a
far better basis for forming relationships with people than fear
(which is ALSO as assumption). Sure, people can hurt you sometimes
but I put it into perspective. I must know personally >1000 people
and I can count less than 5 of them who I would call nasty pieces of
work. So I stay away from those people. And I also remember that
even if someone is an arsehole, I can choose not to let that get to
me. Assumptions like this are necessary when meeting new people
because you don't have any information to base opinions of others on
at first. Better to take a more positive and equally valid view of
the world - it tends to bear fruit.
When I said that people change I meant it. Of course some people
remain immature as adults but they are a minority and can be ignored
or avoided if necessary. The change from childhood immaturity to
adult maturity is gradual - people of course do not change COMPLETELY
from the end of school to the start of university - instead they
gradually mature through high school and university and then after
they graduate and start work. How about, instead of interpreting a
minor statement of what I wrote in an extreme way, try to understand
the point of my post.
There is a wide variety of personalities out there - attribution of
the worst immature behaviour of children to mature adults is not
helpful to you or anyone else. Try to be more realistic in how you
assess what you see and hear from other people, and don't let emotions
from past incidents cloud your interactions now. If you don't have
the skills to do this then seek assistance from someone suitably
qualified, and read quality books on the subject.
If you honestly want to change you need to take some risks and feel
afraid sometimes. If you don't have social skills that's
understandable - we all needed many years to learn them. Get help
from a counsellor to overcome the fear and give you a path to a less
fearful and isolated life. I personally used books and later the
trusted advice of some close friends during my transformation. I'll
be happy to recommend some books that I found helpful if you're
interested.
Of course, if you DO like the life you're currently leading then fair
enough, don't worry about what advice others can offer and maintain
the status quo. I get the feeling from what you've written that this
is not the case though.
Cheers
Allan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
La vie est la somme de tous vos choix (Life is the sum of all your
choices)
- Albert Camus
Robin Catfish
It doesn't even make sense! He's not a little college boy away from
home for the first time. He's a middle-aged man (who can't even move
out and live on his own), and he's still freaking out about "jocks?"
Second big issue; what shy person wants to take advice about
relationships from a loser? Wouldn't it make more sense to listen to a
successful person than a failure? Where has following his own advice
gotten HIM?
This is like a no brainer, dudes!
Catfish
helen~
> "helen~" <helens...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:d89077d8.0410...@posting.google.com...> >> Let me tell you....I see male beauty and I observe ZERO ugly guys with
> >> beautiful women.....ZERO........
> >
> > we tend to see what we want to see.......................
> >
> > h
> And what Jimbo wants to see is male beauty.
ancient greece
i want adonis to fuck me & say i love your boney ass, i love you tho u
look like a boy naked except for your cunt. i got kicked out of the j
paul for licking a statue.
h
tnh421
helen~
> "helen~" <helens...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:d89077d8.04102...@posting.google.com...
> > "tnh421" <tnh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:<IXwdd.217840$wV.35515@attbi_s54>...
> >> "helen~" <helens...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:d89077d8.0410...@posting.google.com...
> >> > jimsum...@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote in message
> >> >> Let me tell you....I see male beauty and I observe ZERO ugly guys
> >> >> with
> >> >> beautiful women.....ZERO........
> >> >
> >> > we tend to see what we want to see.......................
> >> >
> >> > h
> >> And what Jimbo wants to see is male beauty.
> >
> > ancient greece
> > i want adonis to fuck me & say i love your boney ass, i love you tho u
> > look like a boy naked except for your cunt. i got kicked out of the j
> > paul for licking a statue.
> >
> > h
>
> me too
cold stone penis
h
tnh421
Sounds like a pro wrestler.
tnh421
"ci+" <c...@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9592D...@64.85.239.19...
> "tnh421" <tnh...@comcast.net> in news:4Cdgd.322605$MQ5.12772@attbi_s52:
>
>>> cold stone penis
>>>
>>> h
>>
>> Sounds like a pro wrestler.
>>
>
> stonecold penis, perhaps
>
Yep, that's the name that came to mind.
Mathieu
>
You're a serious nutcase Buttboy. Who you're trying to convince?
Everyone agrees that women prefer good looking guys and that they stay away
from a freakazoid like you at all cost. Why point the obvious? You're in
your thirties for god sake...by now, you'd think you would have come to
terms with the fact that you're inherently repulsive to beautiful women.But
you're so in denial.
helen~
the cold part...burrrrrr.........
...stop!
{popsickle dick}
h
Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent
to rant thusly: news:d89077d8.04110...@posting.google.com:
> {popsickle dick}
lol. You been lookin' for one of those?
--
Paul! Paul! Help me, Paul!
Please Paul, help me! Paul!
--Track of the Moonbeast.
helen~
pretty...
doesn't mean i don't see
a plain ernest & glad smile.
ugly...
inside shows on the outside.
h
Jim Summers87
Oh look, it's short little cockroach Mathieu who has come back to make a
visit.