Vengeful Thoughts = OCD?

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Maildmon

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Jan 30, 2003, 7:54:17 AM1/30/03
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I am 31 years old. Ever since I was about 18, I have had a problem with
constant vengeful thoughts over trivial things.

For example, let's say that someone flipped me off with their middle finger on
an interstate eight years ago. To this very day, that incident will stay at
the front of my mind and I wish I could find that person and get revenge on
him. I can't block out the thought and I feel the anger just as intensely now
as if the incident had just happened.

Most people I know can easily "get over" trivial events like this. But for
some reason, I cannot. I'm not sure why, but perhaps part of the reason may be
because I'm not assertive enough.

I have heard that people with OCD have intrusive "violent" thoughts.
My "vengeance" thoughts are usually not gorey or violent. Mostly they are
simply thoughts of justice to fit the incident, such as sending them a harsh
letter or cutting the tires on their car, etc. More passive-aggressive than
truly violent. Though sometimes I think about getting into a fistfight with
the person. With a few minor exceptions, I don't follow through on these
thoughts. These thoughts make it difficult for me to sleep, and can give me
headaches due to the stress.

About five years ago, I went to see a counselor about this problem. He felt I
had OCD and long-term mild depression. However, this was just a volunteer
counselor and not a professional, therefore it was not an official diagnosis.
I took Prozac for about a month or two, but it had no effect on me.

This problem I have, has caused me to become very withdrawn. I work graveyard
shift, and I don't socialize. I avoid social contact because I'm afraid some
"new" trivial situation will happen and cause more intrusive thoughts. The
more recent the incident, the more intense the thoughts. But from
time-to-time, ancient incidents come welling up again with full intensity.

It seems to create a vicious circle, because my being withdrawn makes me be my
own company, which causes these thoughts to loop over-and-over again. It's a
damned if I do, damned if I don't scenario. If I stay withdrawn as I am now,
it's lonely, depressing and I have to deal with my old thoughts. If I get more
social contact, it can create new thoughts that can cause me even greater
stress due to their intensity.

I don't appear to have any other symptoms, such as hand-washing, "gorey"
thoughts, etc. That's why I am unsure if this is OCD, or some other condition
that I am not aware of.

I have tried distractions, alternate replacement thoughts, deprogramming
myself, even Anthony Robbins' techniques. No luck.

I know I have a mild form of depression, because although I do not cry or call
in sick for work... Nothing makes me truly happy anymore. Even things I used
to do for fun, are no longer fun. People have "up" days and "down" days...
mine are either "mildly down" or "numb and neutral." I haven't had an honest
laugh in ages. I put on a good show at work, and I try to be polite to
everyone, and people say I am likeable. But overall I fear one of these days
these thoughts are going to overcome me, and I'm going to do something that
will land me in prison, like burn somebody's house down.

Does anyone else in this NG have this "vengeful thoughts" problem? If so, how
do you deal with it? Does it make you withdrawn? Is this OCD? Is there a
medication that actually WORKS to help this problem?

Thank you for your time. :)

No kidding!

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Jan 30, 2003, 6:47:28 PM1/30/03
to
I also suffer from depression and OCD and I suffer from the "vengeful
thoughts" problem.

This actually happened to me *twice* on the beltway (over a 10 year period)
but I can still recall some guy pulling up next to me in a blue pickup
(while we are both moving) and lifting his pelvis up to window level.

And no, he was not wearing any pants!
There he was, driving along with his pecker exposed and choking his chicken
for me to see. I had the overwhelming urge to smash my car into his. I was
so mad.

Of course......think twice before being too assertive. I gave some guy the
finger for tailgating me and he pulled a gun out and pointed it at me (while
driving along side of me). He never fired it, but it scared the hell out of
me.
NK

"Maildmon" <mail...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030130075417...@mb-md.aol.com...

|_ /-\ | |\|

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Jan 28, 2003, 9:28:34 PM1/28/03
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"Maildmon" <mail...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030130075417...@mb-md.aol.com...
> I am 31 years old. Ever since I was about 18, I have had a problem with
> constant vengeful thoughts over trivial things.
>
> For example, let's say that someone flipped me off with their middle
finger on
> an interstate eight years ago. To this very day, that incident will stay
at
> the front of my mind and I wish I could find that person and get revenge
on
> him. I can't block out the thought and I feel the anger just as intensely
now
> as if the incident had just happened.

A person with OCD could have the urge to find this person and do something
to them, but that thought would be terryfing to him / cause him distress.

> Most people I know can easily "get over" trivial events like this. But
for
> some reason, I cannot. I'm not sure why, but perhaps part of the reason
may be
> because I'm not assertive enough.
>
> I have heard that people with OCD have intrusive "violent" thoughts.
> My "vengeance" thoughts are usually not gorey or violent.

They do not need to be gory or violet. I get thoughts of putting poison in
the sugar, however, a person with OCD will be distressed by such thoughts.

> Mostly they are
> simply thoughts of justice to fit the incident, such as sending them a
harsh
> letter or cutting the tires on their car, etc. More passive-aggressive
than
> truly violent. Though sometimes I think about getting into a fistfight
with
> the person. With a few minor exceptions, I don't follow through on these
> thoughts.

OCD thoughts are more irrational. I get worried that somebody will do
something to me and I will want to get revenge on them. Apparently a person
with OCD will never actualy carry out such thoughts.

> These thoughts make it difficult for me to sleep, and can give me
> headaches due to the stress.

Are you in bed thinking "Fuck I need to get revenge" or " Fuck even though I
can not get this revenge thought out of my head, I hope I don't do it"???

> About five years ago, I went to see a counselor about this problem. He
felt I
> had OCD and long-term mild depression. However, this was just a volunteer
> counselor and not a professional, therefore it was not an official
diagnosis.
> I took Prozac for about a month or two, but it had no effect on me.

Prozac or other SSRIs take about 6 weeks to start fully working, taking them
for a month or two is no indicator.

> This problem I have, has caused me to become very withdrawn. I work
graveyard
> shift, and I don't socialize. I avoid social contact because I'm afraid
some
> "new" trivial situation will happen and cause more intrusive thoughts.
The
> more recent the incident, the more intense the thoughts. But from
> time-to-time, ancient incidents come welling up again with full intensity.
>
> It seems to create a vicious circle, because my being withdrawn makes me
be my
> own company, which causes these thoughts to loop over-and-over again.
It's a
> damned if I do, damned if I don't scenario. If I stay withdrawn as I am
now,
> it's lonely, depressing and I have to deal with my old thoughts.

I have read that people with depression suffer from violent thoughts more.
Also stress could bring them on.

> If I get more
> social contact, it can create new thoughts that can cause me even greater
> stress due to their intensity.

This sounds like what a person OCD would do, avoid situations that trigger
their OCD.

> I don't appear to have any other symptoms, such as hand-washing, "gorey"
> thoughts, etc. That's why I am unsure if this is OCD, or some other
condition
> that I am not aware of.

You can have OCD but only suffer from obsessions (ie Violent Intrusive
Thoughts) and like I said, they do not need to be gory.

> I have tried distractions, alternate replacement thoughts, deprogramming
> myself, even Anthony Robbins' techniques. No luck.

The idea is to forget these thoughts, let them pass through without
attibuting attention / emotion to them.

> I know I have a mild form of depression, because although I do not cry or
call
> in sick for work... Nothing makes me truly happy anymore. Even things I
used
> to do for fun, are no longer fun. People have "up" days and "down"
days...
> mine are either "mildly down" or "numb and neutral." I haven't had an
honest
> laugh in ages. I put on a good show at work, and I try to be polite to
> everyone, and people say I am likeable. But overall I fear one of these
days
> these thoughts are going to overcome me, and I'm going to do something
that
> will land me in prison, like burn somebody's house down.
>
> Does anyone else in this NG have this "vengeful thoughts" problem? If so,
how
> do you deal with it? Does it make you withdrawn? Is this OCD? Is there
a
> medication that actually WORKS to help this problem?

Lots of people talk of Zoloft and Paxil on this NG.

There is a book called "The imp of the mind" which will help you distinguish
between the different types of violent thoughts.

Lain


|_ /-\ | |\|

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Jan 28, 2003, 9:51:01 PM1/28/03
to
Reminds me of a cool bumber sticker I saw the other day.

The closer you get - The slower I go

Lain


Zorg

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Jan 31, 2003, 4:57:28 AM1/31/03
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"No kidding!" <noki...@NOSPAMria.net> wrote in message
news:kQi_9.5538$Wu1.4...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

<SNIP>

> I gave some guy the
> finger for tailgating me and he pulled a gun out and pointed it at me
(while
> driving along side of me). He never fired it, but it scared the hell out
of
> me.
> NK

Man! That is scary.

Zorg

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Ann R Quay

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Feb 1, 2003, 7:53:29 AM2/1/03
to
Maildmon wrote:
> Does anyone else in this NG have this "vengeful thoughts" problem? If
> so, how do you deal with it? Does it make you withdrawn? Is this
> OCD? Is there a medication that actually WORKS to help this problem?

To me you sound obsessive but what you describe doesn't exactly sound
like OCD to me. What I mean is, there could be important personal
reasons why you can not let go of feelings of revenge because of your
live situation (as you allude to - not being assertive enough) and you
become 'obsessed' with revenge. 'Obsessed' can be a tricky word because
someone being obsessed or obsessive does not necessarily mean that
person has OCD. That said, being obsessed can be treated with similar
therapies that treat OCD; meds and cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT).

You use the example of people with OCD who have intrusive violent
thoughts. It is important to realize it is generally not the content of
the thoughts that are the problem (but are of course very upsetting) it
is the thought that one can not be 'certain' the content of the thought
will not happen - one can not be 100 percent, without a doubt, certain
they will not do the upsetting behaviours in their thoughts and that
doubt and uncertainty is unbearable - OCD is 'the doubting disease'.
This is the essense of OCD and I do not get the impression from your
post that you are having a problem with doubt but that's just my
impression.

You would likely benefit from learning about how others here manage
their intrusive thoughts whether or not you have OCD and perhaps you may
want to consider CBT - as a treatment for both your thoughts and
depression.

TONY NIESSEN

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Feb 8, 2003, 3:23:19 PM2/8/03
to
It seems to me that you may be clinically depressed which makes basic lifes
happenings much bigger then they are. Try to find a psychiatrist or
counseller that can deal with this...seems to me that you are not seeing the
wonderful things that are all around you because you have these grey glasses
you are looking through, and with some anger to boot. Keep looking for
medical help until you find the right mix. Tony

"Maildmon" <mail...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030130075417...@mb-md.aol.com...

Insane Dude

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Feb 8, 2003, 8:56:50 PM2/8/03
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:47:28 GMT, "No kidding!"
<noki...@NOSPAMria.net> wrote:
>I also suffer from depression and OCD and I suffer from the "vengeful
>thoughts" problem.

I have violent thoughts (not necessarily revenge, can be just random
violence) occasionally. I don't believe that it is OCD related,
because once I'm done having those thoughts, then I'm really done.


>There he was, driving along with his pecker exposed and choking his chicken
>for me to see. I had the overwhelming urge to smash my car into his. I was
>so mad.
>
>Of course......think twice before being too assertive. I gave some guy the
>finger for tailgating me and he pulled a gun out and pointed it at me (while
>driving along side of me). He never fired it, but it scared the hell out of
>me.

Wow. Those would be some good stories for cocktail parties.

Maildmon

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Feb 23, 2003, 6:37:28 AM2/23/03
to
Thank you all so much for all your help!

It seems the general consensus is that it's not OCD that I have. Because the
intrusive "hostile vengeance fantasies" I have, are not stressful to me,
because I feel they are justifiable. I don't lie awake thinking "Dammit, I
can't believe I'm thinking about doing these awful things!" I lie awake
thinking "Dammit, I must get revenge!"

I read this article on the web that describes my feelings very well:

"Anger-Generating Fantasies

First, something happens to make us mad - someone cheats or insults us, a child
rebels, our lover shows a lot of attention to someone else. We think about it a
lot; we talk about it; it becomes an obsession, like a movie played over and
over.

The more we think about it, the angrier we get.

It is not uncommon to meet a person who is still, years later, seething with
anger towards a former spouse or a tyrannical parent or boss. Presumably the
unpleasant memories maintain the hostility which, in turn, fuels more
aggressive fantasies and perhaps ulcers, distrust of others, and so on.

Rageaholics are frequently preoccupied with resentment and fantasies of
revenge. Those thoughts sometimes rise powerfully and allow no other thoughts
to enter. No matter how hard we try to stop them, ideas of outrage and revenge
predominate. The force of anger is sometimes irresistible and followed by
action. Therefore, the preoccupation with the "wrongs" of others and revenge
continually leads to rage. Progressively, these thoughts crowd out all others
until our life becomes chronically revenge oriented. At that point, anger
controls our thoughts."

The above is pretty much how I always feel. But I don't have "outbursts", nor
do I throw temper tantrums. It's all internalized.

Which medications would work best for this consuming, vengeful anger?
Anti-Depressants? SSRI's? Mood stabilizers? Anti-psychotics? A combination?

Again, thank you very much. You've all been very helpful. :)

Lain Wolfwood

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Feb 23, 2003, 8:27:01 AM2/23/03
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> Which medications would work best for this consuming, vengeful anger?
> Anti-Depressants? SSRI's? Mood stabilizers? Anti-psychotics? A
combination?

U seem much happier now that you've found out whats going on with you.

IMO See a psycholohist, and work things out yourself. Its only logical, your
mind created these thoughts, your mind can make them go away, a psychologist
will walk you through it... Drugs will hide it.

Lain


Ann R Quay

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Feb 24, 2003, 3:19:12 AM2/24/03
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Maildmon wrote:
> Which medications would work best for this consuming, vengeful anger?
> Anti-Depressants? SSRI's? Mood stabilizers? Anti-psychotics? A
> combination?

Why are you looking to 'fix it' with a pill?


Maildmon

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Feb 24, 2003, 5:12:34 AM2/24/03
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ann.r...@virgin.net wrote:

>Why are you looking to 'fix it' with a pill?

I'm not looking for a quick fix. I'm doing research. And not just medication
research.

Skin

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Mar 8, 2003, 8:46:09 PM3/8/03
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Nah, I don't think these thoughts are OCD at all. I broke up with my last
girlfriend over a year ago -- or rather she dumped me, and I recently found
evidence that it might have been due to someone she met online in a game we
play called EverQuest. I found this out from another player/friend
unitentionally and I had many fantasies about screwing them over in game for
awhile. It happens.


Kay


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maildm...@gmail.com

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Dec 9, 2016, 8:38:40 AM12/9/16
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Shut up, you attention whoring twunt. You troll all over the internet with your bullshit. You're a phony. If you have nothing to contribute, just sit down and clam up. This is why nobody likes you.
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