The Fascist Agenda of Non-smoking Health Nazis Revealed!
SmokinDude
I'm pissed at the Fascist bullshit I see being posted here by
fucking health Nazis like Henry Hansteen, Bruce Watson, T.R.
Braxton, and Steve Jungerson.
If you value your Constitutional right to smoke when and where you
please, check out the "Smoker's Home Page" at
<http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers> before it's too late. Here's a
brief excerpt from <http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers/issues3.html>:
REAL MOTIVES
Politics, as they say, makes strange bedfellows, and
anti-smokers come in a strange mix indeed: politicians,
paternalists, profiteers, puritans, collectivists, conformists,
fascists, bigots, former smokers and even some smokers. If you
are in bed with the anti-smokers, you might want to have a
closer look at those whose agendas you are furthering. A little
introspection wouldn't hurt, either.
[...]
Pardon me while I vomit.
PARALLELS
Anti-smokers have failed to grasp the broader message of the
Third Reich. Instead of racial eugenics, they are now
practising the moral variety.
Those who scoff are likely to point out that no one has been
killed (yet); that Jews, unlike smokers, could not change what
they were, and that such a comparison trivializes the Holocaust.
But the parallel is not in the nature of the victims or in the
style of their oppression. The parallel is in the nature of the
oppressors, in their motives and in their methods.
The Nazis didn't start with the book burnings and executions.
It took a long process of preparation and propaganda to reach
that point - a gradual erosion of dignity, credibility and
rights.
First come the government claims that the target group is
injurious to society. The Jews were accused of owning all the
wealth. Smokers are accused of killing people. In both cases,
the claims are bolstered by unscrupulous men of learning
employed by an unscrupulous government - economists on the one
hand, scientists on the other.
Then come the hate campaigns. These are expensive, but are made
practical by recovering the cost from the victims. If you think
this is not taking place in America, think again. In 1988,
California passed a 25 cents per pack tax on cigarettes, 50% of
which was specifically to be used for anti-smoking "education".
This amounts to some $300 million per year, and takes the form
of an unbelievably vicious series of smears, called "ads", on
television. In some, smokers are given the appearance of ogres.
In another, stark script reads "The California Department of
Health Services brings you this moment of silence in memory of
the 14 Californians who died today because of exposure to
secondhand smoke."
Next comes dehumanization. If you wish to rape the rights of a
group of people, it's easier if you don't think of them as
normal human beings. In Nazi Germany, people of standing
reinforced the popular belief that Jews were inferior. Here
doctors refer to smokers as "addicts" who use "nicotine delivery
systems", and patronizingly explain that "the behavior of the
smoker revolves exclusively around obtaining the next
cigarette." They are said by psychologists not to value their
lives, and to live "in a state of denial". An article in the
San Jose Mercury News (February 16, 1994) proclaimed that in
addition to being addicts, smokers are "insecure, nervous,
anxious, needy for love and attention", and "possessed of a high
NQ (Neurosis Quotient)."
Dehumanization is followed by ostracization. A growing number
of employers refuse to hire smokers. Singles ads in the
personals favor non-smokers by two to one, and some rental
property ads are blunter still: "No Smokers". In Germany,
signs were posted on buildings: "Dogs and Jews Forbidden." In
this country, more dogs enjoy full time protection from the
weather than smokers.
At this point the beatings start. The opening paragraph of this
article is not strictly true. Though smokers have not yet been
killed by the government, they have nevertheless been killed by
righteous anti-smokers. And while gays and foreign nationals
enjoy extra protection in certain states under "hate crime"
laws, smokers are still fair game.
There is even a parallel for Hitler's Youth. They don't wear
brown shirts, but a few fashion changes are to be expected over
the course of 50 years. Scrubbed and groomed, they appear at
City Council hearings across the nation wearing identical
tee-shirts with chirpy anti-smoking slogans, where they earn
brownie points for their high school Civics projects by
regurgitating the anti-smoking propaganda drilled into them at
school.
All of this, of course, is made possible by the millions of
citizens who look the other way in the belief that Big Brother
knows best; people who, in this case, seem to think that the
year is still 1974 and that all this fuss is about smoking in
elevators.
There is one difference. Smokers aren't made to wear yellow
triangles to make them stand out. Their cigarettes make that
unnecessary.
But the ride is not over. In fact, the engine of persecution is
only now gathering a full head of steam. What lies ahead? The
stated, and frequently repeated, goal of the anti-smokers is "a
smoke-free society by the year 2000." Virtually every public
building and a growing number of outdoor locations are already
smoke-free, yet the clamor for tougher anti-smoker laws loudens
daily. Clearly, the anti-smokers will not rest until tobacco is
illegal. Their aim is to turn 50 million hated smokers into
criminals. The only question is, how illegal will it be? They
have told us that, also. Tobacco, they announce in no uncertain
terms, is a deadly drug, and smokers are addicts. To predict
how smokers will be treated a few years hence we have only to
look at existing drug laws.
The penalty for casual drug use is 10 years in prison.
Actually, you don't even need to use or possess it. An Oakland,
California man was sentenced to 10 years for giving a ride to a
friend who turned out to be a drug dealer. 23-year-old
Christian Martensen got five years in prison for introducing a
federal narcotics agent to a drug dealer. For two years, the
agent had been following him to rock concerts and hounding him
for the introduction.
In addition, under the asset forfeiture laws, people arrested on
suspicion of drug use can and do have all of their money and
property confiscated. No conviction, nor even a trial, is
necessary. To recover seized property, the now penniless
accusees must sue and prove their innocence. California asset
forfeiture laws were recently changed to require a conviction;
federal laws, however, remain on the books.
Then there are the "Three Strikes" laws. Only recently enacted
in California, similar laws have existed in other states for
years. Under their provisions, a person convicted of a felony
for the third time is automatically sentenced to life in prison
without parole. It might be, in the not too distant future,
that all you have to do to spend the rest of your life in jail
is to smoke three Virginia Slims. We will, indeed, have come a
long way. And we could go even further: former Los Angeles
Police Chief Daryl Gates was quoted as saying "Casual drug users
[as opposed to dealers] should be lined up against a wall and
shot." It may turn out that he was only slightly ahead of his
time.
Is there, you ask, a parallel between the Nazi persecution of
the Jews and the American persecution of smokers?
Oh yes. Oh my, yes.
Once again, check out the whole thing for yourself at the "Smoker's
Home Page" at <http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers> before the Holocaust
against smokers gets even worse!
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll have a fag! <g>
william c anderson
As a pack-a-day smoker who has occasionally been annoyed at the
antics of hard-core anti-smokers, I can say without question this
is the silliest comparison I have heard...well, this week, anyway.
Bill
Patricia Rose Wrean
Please note that this article was originally crossposted to the following
newsgroups:
alt.smokers,alt.politics.correct,sci.med,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,
alt.revisionism,alt.flame,alt.support.non-smokers,alt.support.asthma,
alt.politics.usa.misc
The person who is doing this is not looking for a civilized debate, but
is rather trying to start a flame war. If you must respond, please trim
the newsgroups line to only include the group you are reading this from.
Please do not cross-post to the newsgroup alt.support.asthma.
Followups to alt.flame.
Pat
--
Patricia Wrean wr...@caltech.edu
--
Patricia Wrean wr...@caltech.edu
DaveHatunen
In article <1996050903...@infinity.c2.org>,
SmokinDude <smoki...@aol.com> wrote:
>I'm pissed at the Fascist bullshit I see being posted here by
>fucking health Nazis like Henry Hansteen, Bruce Watson, T.R.
>Braxton, and Steve Jungerson.
You are seriously misusing the words 'Fascist" and "Nazi", and
cheapening the experience of those who suffered under those regimes. Do
you REALLY think your experiences with nonsmokers are comparable to
what happened in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s?
Hm. I see alt.revisionism in the header. Maybe you do.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California *
* Between San Francisco and South San Francisco *
*******************************************************
Johanna Walters
>
> California passed a 25 cents per pack tax on cigarettes, 50% of
> which was specifically to be used for anti-smoking "education".
> This amounts to some $300 million per year, and takes the form
> of an unbelievably vicious series of smears, called "ads", on
> television. In some, smokers are given the appearance of ogres.
> In another, stark script reads "The California Department of
> Health Services brings you this moment of silence in memory of
> the 14 Californians who died today because of exposure to
> secondhand smoke."
And what about the people who are suffering because of smoke? Those who
have allergic reactions or suffer from asthma? It seems that the 25 cents
that you are complaining about paying seems small in comparison to the
lifetime of medical expenses and physical pain that those who suffer from
ailments caused by second hand smoke inflict. It seems selfish to
consider the cost of smoking when there are those who have no choice but
to bear the effects of smoke created by those around them.
Johanna Walters
Steve
Amazing!
We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult to breathe and
makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
Steve
Jeremy A. Litt
DaveHatunen (hat...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <1996050903...@infinity.c2.org>,
: SmokinDude <smoki...@aol.com> wrote:
: >I'm pissed at the Fascist bullshit I see being posted here by
: >fucking health Nazis like Henry Hansteen, Bruce Watson, T.R.
: >Braxton, and Steve Jungerson.
: You are seriously misusing the words 'Fascist" and "Nazi", and
: cheapening the experience of those who suffered under those regimes. Do
: you REALLY think your experiences with nonsmokers are comparable to
: what happened in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s?
:
: Hm. I see alt.revisionism in the header. Maybe you do.
Yes, and we here in alt.revisionism have enough wackos running around
making up stuff about the Holocaust (we have one guy who claimed that
there were no gas chambers, but a few Jews were gassed using a hose and
mask).
Keep this in alt.smokers, dammit!
[Follow-ups trimmed]
Matt Giwer
hat...@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) wrote:
>In article <1996050903...@infinity.c2.org>,
>SmokinDude <smoki...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I'm pissed at the Fascist bullshit I see being posted here by
>>fucking health Nazis like Henry Hansteen, Bruce Watson, T.R.
>>Braxton, and Steve Jungerson.
>You are seriously misusing the words 'Fascist" and "Nazi", and
>cheapening the experience of those who suffered under those regimes. Do
>you REALLY think your experiences with nonsmokers are comparable to
>what happened in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s?
>Hm. I see alt.revisionism in the header. Maybe you do.
These folks would not recognize a real dictator unless they wore
brown uniforms and saluted.
If they wore a business suit and kept a Glatt Kosher kitchen he
could do anything to any group he wanted without the slightest
objection.
-----
It is not a question of how many died without gassing rather
the miracle that so many survived with gassing.
Ehrlich606
someone says:
Is there, you ask, a parallel between the Nazi persecution of
the Jews and the American persecution of smokers?
Oh yes. Oh my, yes.
Ehrlich606: I think this is far-fetched. I don't believe that the Nazi
persecution and murder of Jews is comparable to anti-smoking campaigns.
But I would guess that most of the "conventionalist" on the alt.rev. board
are committed anti-smokers. It is just a gut feeling. As for me -- I am
not going to tell you whether I smoke or not. So there!
Ratman
jlwa...@ucdavis.edu (Johanna Walters) wrote:
>>
>> California passed a 25 cents per pack tax on cigarettes, 50% of
>> which was specifically to be used for anti-smoking "education".
>> This amounts to some $300 million per year, and takes the form
>> of an unbelievably vicious series of smears, called "ads", on
>> television. In some, smokers are given the appearance of ogres.
>> In another, stark script reads "The California Department of
>> Health Services brings you this moment of silence in memory of
>> the 14 Californians who died today because of exposure to
>> secondhand smoke."
>And what about the people who are suffering because of smoke? Those who
>have allergic reactions or suffer from asthma?
By your reasoning, we should also defoiliate the planet from all those
pesky plants that contain pollen.
--
Question's anyone ?
Ratman
Steve.J...@worldnet.att.net (Steve) wrote:
<snip>
>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult to breathe and
>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
>Steve
Yes, Steve. Smokers are being persecuted. And when we are gone, people
like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
Fred Winterer
smoki...@aol.com (SmokinDude) wrote:
>I'm pissed at the Fascist bullshit I see being posted here
[A whole lot of nonsense snipped for sanity]
Right... the anti-smoking storm troopers in their black uniforms and
boots are lining up now to come and get you for smoking. Look out,
there's one behind you now!
What absolute garbage!!!
--
FW
Steve
In article <Dr70E...@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>, Ratman wrote:
>Steve.J...@worldnet.att.net (Steve) wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult to breathe and
>
>>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
>>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
>
>>Steve
>
>like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
>willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
>--
>
>Question's anyone ?
>
Bullshit!
Smoker aren't being persecuted. They are simply being asked to respect the
rights of others to not be forced to breathe their noxious exhaust. That is
not persecution - that is simply self-defense.
Steve
SmokinDude
Steve.J...@worldnet.att.net (Steve) wrote:
> In article <Dr70E...@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>, Ratman wrote:
> >Steve.J...@worldnet.att.net (Steve) wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult to breathe and
> >
> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
> >
> >>Steve
> >
> >Yes, Steve. Smokers are being persecuted. And when we are gone, people
> >like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
> >willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
> >--
> >
> >Question's anyone ?
> >
>
> Bullshit!
>
> Smoker aren't being persecuted. They are simply being asked to respect the
> rights of others to not be forced to breathe their noxious exhaust. That is
> not persecution - that is simply self-defense.
>
> Steve
How can it be that you're so blind to the coming Holocaust aimed at
smokers? Reread the facts presented on the Smoker's Home Page!
<http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers/issues3.html>
Could it be you won't acknowledge the facts because you're just a
Putitanical Nazi asswipe yourself? You limpdick non-smokers make me
want to puke! GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
Rich Graves
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In articles <1996050903...@infinity.c2.org> and
<1996051206...@infinity.c2.org>, smoki...@aol.com (SmokinDude)
wrote:
[nothing; the posts were forgeries]
This thread was started by and continued with forged posts intended to
disrupt alt.revisionism. Please just ignore our friend Skippy.
Followups to news.admin.net-abuse.misc.
- -rich
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Steve
In article <1996051206...@infinity.c2.org>, smoki...@aol.com (SmokinDude) wrote:
>Steve.J...@worldnet.att.net (Steve) wrote:
>
>> In article <Dr70E...@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>, Ratman wrote:
>> >Steve.J...@worldnet.att.net (Steve) wrote:
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
> and
>> >
>> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
>> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
>> >
>> >>Steve
>> >
>> >like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
>> >willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
>> >--
>> >
>> >Question's anyone ?
>> >
>>
>> Bullshit!
>>
>> Smoker aren't being persecuted. They are simply being asked to respect the
>> rights of others to not be forced to breathe their noxious exhaust. That is
>> not persecution - that is simply self-defense.
>>
>> Steve
>
>How can it be that you're so blind to the coming Holocaust aimed at
>smokers? Reread the facts presented on the Smoker's Home Page!
>
> <http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers/issues3.html>
>
>Could it be you won't acknowledge the facts because you're just a
>Putitanical Nazi asswipe yourself? You limpdick non-smokers make me
>want to puke! GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
>
Here is the proof that smoking causes brain damage.
Steve
bambi
>>> >
>>> >>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult
to breathe
>> and
>>> >
>>> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
>>> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
>>> >
>>> >>Steve
>>> >
>>> >Yes, Steve. Smokers are being persecuted. And when we are gone,
people
>>> >like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
>>> >willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
>>> >--
>>> >
>>> >Question's anyone ?
>>> >
>>>
>>> Bullshit!
>>>
>>> Smoker aren't being persecuted. They are simply being asked to
respect the
>>> rights of others to not be forced to breathe their noxious exhaust.
That is
>>> not persecution - that is simply self-defense.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>How can it be that you're so blind to the coming Holocaust aimed at
>>smokers? Reread the facts presented on the Smoker's Home Page!
>>
>> <http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers/issues3.html>
>>
>>Could it be you won't acknowledge the facts because you're just a
>>Putitanical Nazi asswipe yourself? You limpdick non-smokers make me
>>want to puke! GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
>>
>
>
>Here is the proof that smoking causes brain damage.
>
>Steve
steve,
not all of us who smoke are that rude. maybe he has male pms :).
it is time that both sides realized we all have rights and we need to
stop try to force our opinions down someone else's throat. just
because we don't like something, be it smoking, strong odors, auto
axhaust fumes or even overly loud music we DO NOT have the right to
force our opinion on another. hell, isn't this exactly why our
parents, grandparents and great grandparents came to this country.
it's called freedom of choice. if we choose to smoke in smoking areas
that's our right. if you choose not to smoke that's your right, but
when 1 group demands that another give up their rights then that is
wrong.
common respect for other people and good manners are what is needed
between smokers and nonsmokers alike. smokers don't go into a non
smoking area and light up, and non smokers stay out of smoking areas
let both sides live and have peace.
Steve
In article <4n6k5i$8...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, baby...@ix.netcom.com(bambi) wrote:
>
>>>> >
>>>> >>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult
>to breathe
>>> and
>>>> >
>>>> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
>
>>>> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
>>>> >
>>>> >>Steve
>>>> >
I agree with you 100%. The problem is that many smokers do not follow your
philosophy. I have stood under non-smoking signs and have had smokers refuse
to put out their cigarettes. I have sat down in non-smoking malls and had
smokers sit down next to me and light up. When asked (politely) to move away,
I have had my life threatened. These things have happened repeatedly.
Perhaps it is just the people here in West Virginia - these occurances are
rare in other places that I have traveled.
The other problem is defining a "smoking area". Where is it written that it
is alright to have 30 smokers clustered around an entrance to a building -
making it virtually impossible to enter without being engulfed in stench.
I know the mention of human excretion generates large numbers of denials from
the smokers but many of us non-smokers consider being around smokers to be
just as bad as being around someone defecating. This is something we all do
but we do it in private. I see very few people pissing in front of a
restaurant simply because their is no non-pissing sign posted. This is what
we want for smoking. Smoke only in designated areas. I would be happy to
fight the battle to place smoking cubicles throughout the area.
You do have the right to smoke. Just please keep it to yourself.
Steve
Jeff Ethan
Ratman wrote:
> Yes, Steve. Smokers are being persecuted. And when we are gone, people
> like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
> willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
Oh, gads! We've been found out! Quick, send the Health Gestapo to snuff
out the Ratman! Call the CIA, no the FBI... cover it up! cover it up!
Get real! We don't need an agenda against smokers. We'll outlive every
one of them.
They also don't make good spies on us non-smokin' types 'cause you can
smell 'em 10 yards away.
Tom Vilot
bambi wrote:
>it is time that both sides realized we all have rights and we need to
>stop try to force our opinions down someone else's throat.
That's all well and good, but at some point laws get passed that
redefine those boundaries. And *someone* is not going to be happy
about where that boundary is set.
As I've watched threads like this on boulder.general, I've thought
that perhaps the two sides are not arguing the same point. The smoker
is declaring his right to smoke. The non-smoker is re-affirming his
right to not *have to* breath smoke. They're both right.
By creating laws that say a smoker can smoke here, but not there, I
believe a smoker feels the opinion of the non-smoker is being "forced
down his/her throat."
>because we don't like something, be it smoking, strong odors, auto
>axhaust fumes or even overly loud music we DO NOT have the right to
>force our opinion on another.
Then do we have the right to draft a law that says a smoker can't
smoke in public buildings? Clearly, *someone's* "right" is being
declared more important than the other's. And, in keeping with
reasonable democratic process, that person is the MAJORITY who voted
on said law.
>it's called freedom of choice.
In this country there is a fundamental conflict between "individual
liberty" and "protection of the public." Give too much individual
liberty, and you endanger the general public. Secure too much
"protection" of the general public, and you run the risk of infringing
on individual liberty.
>...but when 1 group demands that another give up their rights
>then that is wrong.
Both groups are *constantly* being asked to "give up" a certain degree
of priveledge.
>common respect for other people and good manners are what is needed
>between smokers and nonsmokers alike.
Quite true. My neighbor Ben always insists on leaving our place when
he wants to have a cig. That's very kind of him. Conversely, when we
go out, I don't mind if he smokes in his car while I'm the passenger.
(At least - I try not to!)
But since my fiance is aesthmatic, he does not smoke in his car if
*she* is the passenger. We never have a conflict.
TJ
Steve
In article <DrGoq9.8r...@indra.com>, t...@indra.com (Tom Vilot) wrote:
>bambi wrote:
>
>>it is time that both sides realized we all have rights and we need to
>>stop try to force our opinions down someone else's throat.
>
All we asking is that the smokers not force their opinion up our nose!
Steve
Bill Murray
>believe a smoker feels the opinion of the non-smoker is being "forced
>down his/her throat."
Close but not quite, I smoke, and I have no problem with designated smoking
areas. However, for SOME (allow me to re-emphasize SOME to avoid flames)
non-smokers this isn't good enough. These antis want to keep pushing until
it's banned outright.
Allow me to relate this experience:
I worked for five years in a large financial corp. When I started there
smoking was unrestricted. Out of courtesy to my co-workers, I restricted my
smoking to my office. Those who had no office were welcome to smoke in mine.
We all got along fine.
One year later the company decided on designated smoking areas(completely
fair). These areas were well away from generally trafficked areas and had
large ventilation fans in the ceilings and lots of ashtrays. None of the
smokers complained.
This still wasn't enough the following year, the entire building went
no-smoking.The company also offered a fee-based, off time cessation
program(the subst. abuse program, however, is company-funded, on company time,
and with no lapse in salary or displacement of position). We got used to going
outside, this time all of two ashtrays were provided; mounted by the doors of
the building. Luckily, there was an awning to stand under, during the rain and
snow. Sure we griped a bit, but we complied.
Surprise, surprise, this still wasn't enough. We were deemed unsightly,
and there were complaints about smokers hanging around the entrances(they put
he overflowing ashtrays there!), and complaints about butts on the ground,
two ashtrays for a twelve story building just doesn't cut it, not to mention
the fact that many were trying to stay away from the entrances, the proverbial
rock and a hard place.
So they moved the smoking to the rear of the building, and in the
interests of "protecting the smokers from potential harrasment by transients",
(I swear this is true, I'll privately e-mail you the name and city of the
company if you'd like.) built a 20' by 20' cage! I dubbed this cage "The Leper
Colony", and the name seems to have stuck:-) .
At this point most smokers had been pushed too far, and took up smoking in
the bathrooms, supply rooms, file rooms, etc.Naturally complaints ensued, but
were ignored because most of the managers were unwilling to lose what they
felt were good employees over this issue, and the fact that there would have
to have been _massive_firings. There was also the fact that some of the
rebellious smokers were at the level of AVP and above, and it just wouldn't do
to have an AVP oh higher of a Fortune 500 company canned for having a smoke in
the john.
Less than six months after the instituting of "The Leper Colony", I left
the company, but on a recent visit to see some friends, I learned that
although "The Leper Colony" still exists, it is virtually unused and most
smokers are back to the front of the building, and the housekeeping dept.
just sweeps more often.
Had people been satisfied with one of the reasonable segregation plans,
all this would have been avoided. I don't oppose non-smokers, only extremists.
Thank you,
>
>TJ
>
Bill "Not the comedian" Murray
bmu...@voicenet.com
Visit "Hard Boiled" at http://www.voicenet.com/~bmurray/index.html
Just 'cause you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they ain't out to get ya!
cap...@cuug.ab.ca
In article <4n6k5i$8...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
bambi <baby...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>>> >
>>>> >>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult
>to breathe
>>> and
>>>> >
>>>> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
>
>>>> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
>>>> >
be able to trample all over people, they don't want to even try to
respect the rights of other people, so when you object to their smoking,
they call you a nazi in order to shut you up. It's the ssame with the
fanatic animal rights people who call all meat eaters nazis, and the left
wingers and right wingers throwing that lable around.
It's emotional abuse and shouldn't be tolerated.
The only time the term nazi can be properly applied is when that person
or group of people is/are biggots, supporting the opression of another
group just because of race, religion, skin color. Nazis are child
molestors, rapists, killers, slavers, torturers, and feel they are
superior to everyone else. They are addicted to power and delight in all
kinds of abominable things that hurt people badly!
So, I too, deeply resent anyone calling me a nazi just because I am not a
vegan and don't smoke. I am not a sexual pervert or a sadist in any way
at all.
It's time the people who are emotionally opressed by those who lable them
nazis when they in fact are not at all cruel, fought back. We're not
gonna take this crap any more!
>>>> >>Steve
>>>> >
>>>> >Yes, Steve. Smokers are being persecuted. And when we are gone,
>people
>>>> >like yourself will be the focus of some government attack, but you
>>>> >willhave forsaken personal rights by then.
>>>> >--
>>>> >
>>>> >Question's anyone ?
Not. You chose to smoke, no one put a gun to your head and said "do or
die", and now you're addicted.
Why should other people have to breathe something that causes lung
cancer just because you can't quit. If you want to smoke, that's
really your problem and if you're kind enough, you'll do it somewhere
where you won't bother anyone else.
>>>> > >>>> >>>> Bullshit! >>>>
>>>> Smoker aren't being persecuted. They are simply being asked to
>respect the
>>>> rights of others to not be forced to breathe their noxious exhaust.
> That is
>>>> not persecution - that is simply self-defense.
Ditto!
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>>How can it be that you're so blind to the coming Holocaust aimed at
>>>smokers? Reread the facts presented on the Smoker's Home Page!
>>>
Oh honestly!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now you think all nonsmokers will engage in all kinds of monstrous
sadistic activity, eh? Well, you're darn wrong! Furthermore, you're a
pathetic paranoied whiner. I wish smoking was stopped altogether, but I'm
not about to promote the gassing and torturing and killing of
smokers!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather put up with smoke!
>>> <http://www.tezcat.com/~smokers/issues3.html>
>>>
>>>Could it be you won't acknowledge the facts because you're just a
>>>Putitanical Nazi asswipe yourself? You limpdick non-smokers make me
>>>want to puke! GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
>>>
Go back to school and learn the basics of kindergarten such as playing
nice, and how not to make a complete idiot of yourself. Then come back
and try debating.
>>
>>
>>Here is the proof that smoking causes brain damage.
>>
Well, I don't think it was the smoking that did it, he's just totally
wacko. he's the type that would be even if he didn't smoke.
>>Steve
>
>
>steve,
>
>not all of us who smoke are that rude. maybe he has male pms :).
Um, not all people with pms are even that rude. Methinks he suffers from
some kind of desease that makes one think everybody's out to get them.
Paranoia, I think they call it. Whatever, I am still utterly disgusted
with the way the nazi lable gets thrown around where it doesn't belong!
>
>it is time that both sides realized we all have rights and we need to
>stop try to force our opinions down someone else's throat. just
>because we don't like something, be it smoking, strong odors, auto
>axhaust fumes or even overly loud music we DO NOT have the right to
>force our opinion on another. hell, isn't this exactly why our
>parents, grandparents and great grandparents came to this country.
Yes, but with freedom also comes responsibility not to abuse it.
>
>it's called freedom of choice. if we choose to smoke in smoking areas
>that's our right. if you choose not to smoke that's your right, but
>when 1 group demands that another give up their rights then that is
>wrong.
If you smoke far enough away from us, that's ok, no complaints. You can
blast your stereo all you want too as long as you're not infringing on
someone else's right to sleep. It's when people don't care and they force
their stuff on others who really can't hack it, that's when we run into
troubles. And often the trouble is, the non smoking and smoking areas
aren't really separeted well enough, so the problem isn't resolved
effectively yet.
> >common respect for other people and good manners are
what is
needed >between smokers and nonsmokers alike. smokers don't go into a non
>smoking area and light up, and non smokers stay out of smoking areas
>let both sides live and have peace.
Agreed. Now, if we could make it so the areas weren't so close to each
other, maybe have two of everything, one restaurant for the nonsmokers,
one for the smokers, some stores where it's ok to smoke, others where it
isn't, and no smoking in the main hallways of a public building.
Caprina
P.S. One of my best friends smokes, and she can't seem to quit. She
wishes she never started.
--
"Look down,
And show
Some mercy if you can!
"Look down!
Look down
Upon your fellow man!" - "Les Miserables" Musical.
Lee Jackson Beauregard
Oops! Nazis in the *subject line*. This thread was dead before it even began.
--
+---------------- L e e J a c k s o n B e a u r e g a r d ----+-----------+
| Opinions expressed here are mine and not those of SmartNet or | Delenda |
| AltNet. And if you don't agree with them, you are racist, | est |
| sexist, elitist, imperialist, Baptist, and possibly even right. | Windoze |
+--------------------- r c h a s o n @ s m a r t . n e t ---------+-----------+
William Grosvenor
Caprina seems to think that unless you agree with her, you must be a
nazi??
How would she/it know, unless she/it is a real nazi, and recognises
others as such?
To force her stupid policies on everyone, whether it is legal or not
certainly smells of nazism, wouldn't you say?
Why not have evry smoker in the world, let her know how you feel about
Caprina as a nazi???
Falling to pieces
cap...@cuug.ab.ca wrote:
: In article <4n6k5i$8...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
: bambi <baby...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: >
: >>>> >
: >>>> >>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult
: >to breathe
: >>> and
: >>>> >
: >>>> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
: >
: >>>> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
: >>>> >
: No, what's happening is emotional blackmail at it's worst! They want to
: be able to trample all over people, they don't want to even try to
: respect the rights of other people, so when you object to their smoking,
: they call you a nazi in order to shut you up. It's the ssame with the
: fanatic animal rights people who call all meat eaters nazis, and the left
: wingers and right wingers throwing that lable around.
: It's emotional abuse and shouldn't be tolerated.
: The only time the term nazi can be properly applied is when that person
: or group of people is/are biggots, supporting the opression of another
: group just because of race, religion, skin color. Nazis are child
: molestors, rapists, killers, slavers, torturers, and feel they are
: superior to everyone else. They are addicted to power and delight in all
: kinds of abominable things that hurt people badly!
It is much more subtle than that. If you are a true nazi you
don't believe that the people who are inferior to you have rights in
the first place. The "nazi" term should not be used in any sense today.
It specifically relates to the set of circumstances which concern
Germany 1933-1945. Used for any other reason is a misuse of that term.
If someone calls you a nazi then they don't know what they are talking
about.
: So, I too, deeply resent anyone calling me a nazi just because I am not a
: vegan and don't smoke. I am not a sexual pervert or a sadist in any way
: at all.
You don't have to be a pervert.. the issue is one of rights as you
correctly point out in the part of your message i have deleted.
Of course if you don't smoke then your rights are being threatened
by those who do. In which case they are the "nazi" to use their own
terms.
: It's time the people who are emotionally opressed by those who lable them
: nazis when they in fact are not at all cruel, fought back. We're not
: gonna take this crap any more!
The simple way to combat that is to turn it the other way around. If your
rights, which are set out in the constitution are being threatened by
these people.... well...
:
: Not. You chose to smoke, no one put a gun to your head and said "do or
: die", and now you're addicted.
: Why should other people have to breathe something that causes lung
: cancer just because you can't quit. If you want to smoke, that's
: really your problem and if you're kind enough, you'll do it somewhere
: where you won't bother anyone else.
It's your "right" not to be forced to breath other peoples smoke.
: Oh honestly!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: Now you think all nonsmokers will engage in all kinds of monstrous
: sadistic activity, eh? Well, you're darn wrong! Furthermore, you're a
: pathetic paranoied whiner. I wish smoking was stopped altogether, but I'm
: not about to promote the gassing and torturing and killing of
: smokers!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather put up with smoke!
However, it is also a smokers "right" to smoke. If they kill themselves
well, that is completely their business.
: >>>Could it be you won't acknowledge the facts because you're just a
: >>>Putitanical Nazi asswipe yourself? You limpdick non-smokers make me
: >>>want to puke! GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
Do what you like as long as you don't infringe upon anybodies rights.
: Um, not all people with pms are even that rude. Methinks he suffers from
: some kind of desease that makes one think everybody's out to get them.
: Paranoia, I think they call it. Whatever, I am still utterly disgusted
: with the way the nazi lable gets thrown around where it doesn't belong!
It doesn't belong anywhere outside it's time.
: >it is time that both sides realized we all have rights and we need to
: >stop try to force our opinions down someone else's throat. just
: >because we don't like something, be it smoking, strong odors, auto
: >axhaust fumes or even overly loud music we DO NOT have the right to
: >force our opinion on another. hell, isn't this exactly why our
: >parents, grandparents and great grandparents came to this country.
I'm sure some forcing went on somewhere along the line...
: Caprina
: P.S. One of my best friends smokes, and she can't seem to quit.
Won't.
: She
: wishes she never started.
Obviously she doesn't wish strongly enough. It is her choice.
Roeland M.J. Meyer
I reviewed the NEWS LIST and couldn't find a reference that this post isn't
appropriate for.
ro...@mhsc.com
Falling to pieces wrote:
>
> cap...@cuug.ab.ca wrote:
> : In article <4n6k5i$8...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
> : bambi <baby...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> : >
> : >>>> >
> : >>>> >>We say please don't smoke near us because it makes it difficult
> : >to breathe
> : >>> and
> : >>>> >
> : >>>> >>makes us smell bad. And all of a sudden we are Nazis who want to
> : >
> : >>>> >>persecute and ultimately kill you. Did I miss something here?
> : >>>> >
No, but you did add the Kill part yourself. Only the radical anti's use that word
so freely. Oh, did I see you say something about emotional blackmail, hmmmm?
> : No, what's happening is emotional blackmail at it's worst! They want to
[mucho illogical ramblings ... snipped]
> : It's emotional abuse and shouldn't be tolerated.
So quit throwing the "murder" and "kill" words around so much. We all know, or should
that SHS isn't reliable enough for use as an effective weapon. So, quit accusing
smokers of attempted murder, bodily harm, and other assorted mayhem.
> : The only time the term nazi can be properly applied is when that person
> : or group of people is/are biggots, supporting the opression of another
> : group just because of race, religion, skin color.
You left out behaviour. What do you call it when you make smokers stand outside,
in January, in a -60 degree blizzard, to have a cigarette. Then, when they try
to erect a shelter you call it an enclosed public space and ban smokers from that. Thus,
sending them back out into the blizzard. All the while the non-smokers were gloating
and saying that the smokers, somehow, deserved it.
The above story is one I personally witnessed, in two cities, 1500 miles apart, in the USA.
Pro non-smokers vindictively interpreting non-smoking ordinances were the culprits in
both cases. Both scenarios still exist.
The injustice and petty vindictiveness is enough to boil the blood of any patriot who
loves this country (USA). We exchanged bigotry against blacks for bigotry against smokers.
DO YOU STILL SAY THAT THE NAZI LABEL DOESN'T FIT!
> : Nazis are child
> : molestors, rapists, killers, slavers, torturers, and feel they are
> : superior to everyone else. They are addicted to power and delight in all
> : kinds of abominable things that hurt people badly!
Sounds remarkably like the non-smoking establishment to me.
> It is much more subtle than that. If you are a true nazi you
> don't believe that the people who are inferior to you have rights in
> the first place. The "nazi" term should not be used in any sense today.
> It specifically relates to the set of circumstances which concern
> Germany 1933-1945. Used for any other reason is a misuse of that term.
> If someone calls you a nazi then they don't know what they are talking
> about.
A NAZI is a member of the National Socialist Party of Germany. Please note the word
"Socialist". However, in modern English the word has come to be associated with
the many manifestations of bigotry and the abuse of power to support same. Bigotry is
NOT restricted to racial bias.
Most folks really mean Fascist, when they say NAZI. But then, you knew that and merely
wanted to quibble while distracting from the REAL words.
> : So, I too, deeply resent anyone calling me a nazi just because I am not a
> : vegan and don't smoke. I am not a sexual pervert or a sadist in any way
> : at all.
You mean that you don't take pleasure in watching some poor smoker suffer in the
rain/sleet/snow just because you're to one-sided to allow them, at least, a warm
place to smoke? Then they wouldn't get sick and die sooner, eh? After all, you
do believe that smokers are more succeptable to respiratory ailments then the rest
of us, aren't you. Therefore, all that exposure to the elements will just make them
get sicker and the lucky ones may manage to quit smoking before they die of the
pneumonia caused by the weather they've been exposed to. After all, they choose
to be out in it to have a cigarette, didn't they?
> You don't have to be a pervert.. the issue is one of rights as you[snip]
> by those who do. In which case they are the "nazi" to use their own
> terms.
Since the term NAZI implied the willfull abuse of power to supress a selected group,
you can not be correct. Where is the evidence? Individual examples of rude social
behaviour does not make an abuse of power, as has been observed to be wielded by the
non-smoking establishment.
> : It's time the people who are emotionally opressed by those who lable them
> : nazis when they in fact are not at all cruel, fought back. We're not
> : gonna take this crap any more!
>
> The simple way to combat that is to turn it the other way around. If your
> rights, which are set out in the constitution are being threatened by
> these people.... well...
Here you have a point. <grin> Right near the top of your head.
> It's your "right" not to be forced to breath other peoples smoke.
Fisrt, you must PROVE the SHS argument has validity. Then you must be willing
to compromise. Allow smoking lounges, for instance.
> : Oh honestly!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> : Now you think all nonsmokers will engage in all kinds of monstrous
> : sadistic activity, eh? Well, you're darn wrong!
I've personally witnessed otherwise.
> : Furthermore, you're a
> : pathetic paranoied whiner. I wish smoking was stopped altogether, but I'm
> : not about to promote the gassing and torturing and killing of
> : smokers!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather put up with smoke!
Nah...you'd rather toss them out in the Blizzard. It's slower and easier on
your concience that way.
> However, it is also a smokers "right" to smoke. If they kill themselves
> well, that is completely their business.
> : Um, not all people with pms are even that rude. Methinks he suffers from
> : some kind of desease that makes one think everybody's out to get them.
> : Paranoia, I think they call it. Whatever, I am still utterly disgusted
> : with the way the nazi lable gets thrown around where it doesn't belong!
>
> It doesn't belong anywhere outside it's time.
...and if the shoe fits, thou shalt wear it. The time is now!
> : >it is time that both sides realized we all have rights and we need to
> : >stop try to force our opinions down someone else's throat. just
> : >because we don't like something, be it smoking, strong odors, auto
> : >axhaust fumes or even overly loud music we DO NOT have the right to
> : >force our opinion on another. hell, isn't this exactly why our
> : >parents, grandparents and great grandparents came to this country.
...and why I fought and continue to fight for it!
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Roeland M.J. Meyer (RMM993) Domain Administrator (MHSC.COM) |
| rme...@mhsc.com rme...@rmi.net |
| Morgan Hill, CA - Colorado Springs, CO - Livermore, CA |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
George F. Walker Sr
> buy them no one put a gun to my head to do so. I read about the idea
> of smoking on airliners you would have to fly back and forth to LA all
> day and night to get a trace of smoke if you are a non-smoker.Uh-Uh
> Nazi is another thing. I haven't seen any lately have YOU????? If you
> see any tell them Hitler is dead,Dead.Dead*****--
MZ
William Grosvenor
Crapina is certainly acting like a true NAZI, when she accuses anyone
and everyone who disagrees with her alleged version of history.
Perhaps she was a gauleiter in Poland, who knows, but she is certainly
opposed to free speech, freedom of thought and similar normal rights.
Mind you, she/it does want special rights for perverts and other vermin.
Suggestions as to what should be done about her?
Head Librarian
William Grosvenor (acu...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote:
[...]
: Suggestions as to what should be done about her?
No. Just go away.
--
Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones
Suzanna Valory
krta...@mercury.gaianet.net (Head Librarian) writes:
>William Grosvenor (acu...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote:
>[...]
>: Suggestions as to what should be done about her?
>No. Just go away.
No. YOU go away, Head Librarian.
I'm sick and tired of your crap.
jacobe...@gmail.com
Thanks for information.
10 e-cigarettes currently on the market contained levels of acrolein and formaldehyde that were comparable to those found in traditional cigarettes.
According to : http://www.doctorshealthpress.com/general-health-2/health-news/using-this-to-quit-smoking-think-again