Herpes & the Law
tr...@webtv.net
Herpes? I've read this it is difficult, but possible, to win such a
case.
arlynsg
that you didn't have herpes before unless you have an actual herpes test
result. If you are deciding to this, please keep us informed on how it
goes.
ar
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6810-3DA...@storefull-2356.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Angela
activity w/other people it will be easy to lose a case like that because the
burden of proof would lie in your corner. I am not a lawyer.
What did your lawyer say?
Angela
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6810-3DA...@storefull-2356.public.lawson.webtv.net...
mishaisacat
of the population has herpes. It is a communicable disease. And it's SO
easy to transmit even when no symptoms are present and condoms are used,
etc. But it's also random enough that you could try to give it to someone
and not necessarily succeed. I think, and I'm no lawyer, that you'd have to
prove the person knew that they would definitely give you herpes and that
they intended to. I just have to wonder, in general, what's to be gained by
it? And couldn't they in turn file against whomever they got it from and so
on? To me it makes as much sense as suing over contracting cold sores or
chicken pox.
~jess
"Angela" <Yosh...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1cer9.60394$XF.2...@news1.central.cox.net...
Exception
> Cold sores is herpes.
I mean, Herpes 1. Same virus, different spot. I got Herpes 1, the cold sores
virus on my genitals.
Exception
"mishaisacat" <mishaisaSP...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aol6vr$m3a$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
arlynsg
ar
"Exception" <info@(nospam)except.nl> wrote in message
news:apcjqp$mio$1...@news.tudelft.nl...
TBethEve
>
>I mean, Herpes 1. Same virus, different spot. I got Herpes 1, the cold sores
>virus on my genitals.
>
Cold sores are herpes and herpes are cold sores, regardless of where on your
body that you contract it or what type it is--HSV-1 or HSV-2.
Remember, only you hold the keys to your happiness. :-)
mishaisacat
getting cold sores. That they might do so with genital sores is just as
ridiculous to me. ~jcnews:apcjp2$mho$1...@news.tudelft.nl...
tr...@webtv.net
and they allow a partner to have sex with them unprotected without
warning them, they can be held criminally liable for spreading
contagious diseases. The book "Understanding Herpes" covers this on page
61. You CAN win such a case, and it has happened before.
You're saying that if somebody purposely infects you with a contagious
disease, you think it's "ridiculous" to take them to court????? WOW!!
You are an extremely forgiving person. Wouldn't you at least attempt to
make them pay for it in some way?? I understand that it may be hard to
win such a case, but "ridiculous" is a little strong.
mishaisacat
I *was* raped when I contracted my herpes. (It's mine, I own it, and I feel
how I wanna bout it.) And I'm not that forgiving. However, I was raped by
my boyfriend at the time, and I had previously had consensual sex with him.
And --after the fact -- he claimed he didn't have herpes, but he's an idiot
retard lying b*stard, so that doesn't mean anything. Liars can lie, there's
nothing I can do about that.
There's no way I could prove that he had it and knew. There's no way I
could prove I got it from him. I'd had with other people in my life, and
the idea of hunting them down, telling them I had the herp, and asking them
to get tested to I could ruin the rat-b*stard, didn't seem worth it. And
there was no way I could prove the rape either. (Which doesn't mean I
didn't have my bouncer friend give him a few quick punches or that I didn't
tell his mother he gave me herpes, but that was personal and not legal, and
having to do it all over again, I'd just be happy I'd rid him from my life.)
Furthermore, any attempts at hurting him would only have caused me more
pain. It wasn't worth it. And, as Angela indicated, I made the stupid
stupid choice of being anywhere near such a f*ck of a character. Shit
happens. Herpes happens. Woo woo woo. You don't see people suing people
over cold sores, which is herpes. You don't see people suing people over
the flu or colds or other communicable viruses that aren't fatal. Herpes
isn't fatal. It sucks, but not so much in comparison to plenty of other
illnesses. And how are you going to prove someone knew they had
something -- med records are private, aren't they? -- or that they knew they
were shedding. I guess I just don't see why you'd want to be a victim.
Sure, it makes the person a shit of a person to do something so awful, but I
think the very slim chances of a victory in court aren't worth having to see
the person's face again. You want to pursue charges. Fine. I just think
revenge only hurts you in the end. It doesn't change the fact you, like
twenty percent of the population or more, has herpes.
Carrying your argument to the extreme reveals its ridiculous nature: if you
can sue for genital herpes, you can sue for oral herpes. What about the
state suing parents over transmission to their newborns through the act of
birth? The infant isn't informed or given a choice or even legally old
enough to make such a choice. What about parents with genetic disorders who
chose to have children, thus taking the chance their own children will
suffer the same disorder? It may seem reasonable to press charges against
someone who gave you herpes, but when you apply that same logic to similar
cases, say all viral infections or even just all herpes infections, it no
longer seems reasonable and the logic doesn't hold. I admit what you
suggest is legally possible, but I don't equate legally possible with
necessarily reasonable. Some truly idiotic things are legally possible.
Sorry for the rant. Okay, maybe not really sorry!
I should go grade papers. And lay off the caffeine!
toodles,
jess
"Angela" <Yosh...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tjTu9.29434$lK5....@news1.central.cox.net...
> <tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:22871-3DB...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> > If somebody has a medical history of Herpes,
> > and they allow a partner to have sex with them unprotected without
> > warning them, they can be held criminally liable for spreading
> > contagious diseases. The book "Understanding Herpes" covers this on page
> > 61.
>
> Don't you have to prove this to be fact?
>
> How many people did you sleep w/prior to this so called person that didn't
> have herpes.?
>
> Out of all those people how many had herpes and didn't know that they had
> herpes?
>
> If you have had more than one partner in your life time then it will be
> difficult to prove the source of your herpes infection.
>
> It takes TWO to have sex.
> If this person didn't hold a gun to your head or rape you then 50% of the
> responsibility falls into YOUR lap.
> I'm not excusing the person that has herpes and doesn't tell.
> I'm just sick and dog gone tired of people trying to lame blame.
> People that don't take responsibility for their own actions.
> You made your bed . . . and now you have to lie in it.
>
> >You CAN win such a case, and it has happened before.
> > You're saying that if somebody purposely infects you with a contagious
> > disease, you think it's "ridiculous" to take them to court????? WOW!!
>
> Prove it buddy.
>
> > You are an extremely forgiving person. Wouldn't you at least attempt to
> > make them pay for it in some way??
>
> I've already had the person that gave me herpes thrown into jail. (Not
for
> herpes)
> He had it and it's CLEAR AS DAY that he knew he had it and didn't tell me.
> That doesn't change that I made a choice to sleep with him.
> I take responsibility for MY HERPES.
>
> >I understand that it may be hard to
> > win such a case, but "ridiculous" is a little strong.
>
> Nope . . . you just need to get over it and move on.
> Unless you were raped or forced at gun point to have sex . . . drop it.
>
> :::sigh:::
>
> I am so tired of the world revolving around placing blame and "he said she
> said" and point the finger.
> I'm so sick of it.
> So you have herpes . . . learn about it . . . and decide how you are going
> to choose the higher road of living with it. Stop trying to bring
everybody
> down and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
> If you want to waste your time and throw your hard earned money out the
> window trying to bring people down where you are at . . . then that is
your
> choice. This entire scenario gets brought up about every two months give
or
> take and it IS getting to be "RIDICULOUS".
>
> Have a NICE Sunday! :)
>
> Angela
>
>
>
>
Angela
news:22871-3DB...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> If somebody has a medical history of Herpes,
> and they allow a partner to have sex with them unprotected without
> warning them, they can be held criminally liable for spreading
> contagious diseases. The book "Understanding Herpes" covers this on page
> 61.
Don't you have to prove this to be fact?
How many people did you sleep w/prior to this so called person that didn't
have herpes.?
Out of all those people how many had herpes and didn't know that they had
herpes?
If you have had more than one partner in your life time then it will be
difficult to prove the source of your herpes infection.
It takes TWO to have sex.
If this person didn't hold a gun to your head or rape you then 50% of the
responsibility falls into YOUR lap.
I'm not excusing the person that has herpes and doesn't tell.
I'm just sick and dog gone tired of people trying to lame blame.
People that don't take responsibility for their own actions.
You made your bed . . . and now you have to lie in it.
>You CAN win such a case, and it has happened before.
> You're saying that if somebody purposely infects you with a contagious
> disease, you think it's "ridiculous" to take them to court????? WOW!!
Prove it buddy.
> You are an extremely forgiving person. Wouldn't you at least attempt to
> make them pay for it in some way??
I've already had the person that gave me herpes thrown into jail. (Not for
herpes)
He had it and it's CLEAR AS DAY that he knew he had it and didn't tell me.
That doesn't change that I made a choice to sleep with him.
I take responsibility for MY HERPES.
>I understand that it may be hard to
> win such a case, but "ridiculous" is a little strong.
Nope . . . you just need to get over it and move on.
tr...@webtv.net
even if you don't agree with me.
tr...@webtv.net
laws (statutes) concerning the spread of contagious diseases. In such
states a person may be criminally liable for transmitting Genital
Herpes. Recent court decisions have also established civil liability in
cases where people with genital herpes transmit the infection to a
sexual partner."
"The courts have most commonly recognized three causes of action in
cases involving the transmission of sexually acquired infections:
negligence, battery, and misrepresention."
"Proving the transmission was intentional can be difficult, although
the legal definition of intentional can be surprisingly broad and
encompass situations in which the infected person had no desire to harm
his or her sexual partner. While consent to intercourse would seem to be
an invitation to contact, the consent does not extend to acquiring
sexually transmitted infections."
All of the above paragraphs were from the book "Understanding Herpes".
Author: Lawrence Raymond Stanberry,M.D., Ph D.
Back to my original questions: Have any of you attempted a lawsuit?
Were you successful?
I thought this was a support group. LOL. I asked a simple question,
and got "this is ridiculous", and "I'm so sick of this", Oh well.
Seems like a legit question to me, especially considering the fact that
there ARE laws that specifically deal with this.
mishaisacat
vary.
I'm guessing from the resonse that you have recieved that not many people
here have pursued this route or at least aren't advertising that they have.
My guess is that it would be more trouble than it's worth. I think it would
be pretty hard to win a victory, and even if you did, I'm not sure what
you'd gain, except some large legal bills.
Here's an article at webmd:
http://webmd.lycos.com/content/article/1691.50229. I have to disagree with
the last woman the article quotes: there's no way I'd trade my herpes for
cancer!
good luck,
jesseca
When a Partner Gives You Herpes
Getting herpes or another sexually transmitted disease is no picnic, but
neither is trying to collect damages for your distress. Why is it so hard to
win such cases?
By Scott Winokur
May 22, 2000 -- It sounded like the kind of case you could take to the bank.
Catherine Leleux of Louisiana was barely 18 years old in 1995 when she was
seduced by her Navy recruiter, Petty Officer Paul Sistrunk. Several weeks
later, she came down with a case of genital herpes.
Leleux sought out a personal injury lawyer, Lamont Domingue. Struck by her
calm, affable demeanor, he agreed to take the case, even though he knew that
a sex-related lawsuit in politically conservative Louisiana would be "ugly
and hard-fought."
In filing suit, Domingue sidestepped Sistrunk and went after his employer,
the federal government. After all, it had the deepest pockets, and it was
vulnerable: Navy officials had discharged Sistrunk under "less than
honorable conditions" after Leleux's complaint came to light. Domingue
thought she could collect a half-million dollars.
But it was not to be: Last July, the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that Leleux
didn't have a case.
Technically speaking, the court said, Sistrunk's failure to disclose his
herpes made the sex he had with Catherine nonconsensual, because she would
not have agreed to it if she had known about his disease.
Reasoning further, the court held that if the sex was nonconsensual, it was
battery. And because battery is intentional, under federal law the U.S.
government could not be held liable (as it would have been if the sex had
resulted from its negligence).
Leleux packed her bags and moved to another state, marrying a man who knew
her history and was willing to contract herpes from her (which he promptly
did).
Meanwhile, Domingue was left to ponder a sad truth: While it can take no
more than a single night of sex to contract a sexually transmitted disease
(STD), trying to collect damages for the hurt that follows can be a legal
nightmare.
A Search for Justice
Complex questions, from science to social values, cause many civil cases to
fall apart, though people who intentionally infect others are often
successfully prosecuted under criminal law.
In fact, civil lawsuits involving people who unwittingly contract genital
herpes, genital warts, chlamydia, gonorrhea, and other maladies during sex
have failed to generate the kind of multimillion-dollar jury awards that
attorneys envisioned in the early 1980s, when the number of STD cases
nationwide began to explode.
"Even if you are successful," says Domingue, "you will never see justice
done. Even if you manage to find a deep pocket, money is such a sad,
inadequate remedy for a horrible violation of trust."
Personal-injury lawyer Stewart Perry of Minneapolis, who filed one of the
first STD lawsuits 15 years ago, levels with would-be clients who want to
pursue a sexual partner.
"When people say, 'I want to do something,' I say, 'You have a case, but do
you want to pay for the fees and costs?' The answer is, 'I'll let you know,'
" says Perry. "And they never call back."
Four Reasons Why Civil Cases Crumble
Why are civil cases involving STDs so difficult to litigate? Lawyers cite
these reasons:
Causation troubles: Will a client be able to prove which partner gave him
the disease? Does he even know for sure? Herpes has a relatively short
incubation period, which makes it easier to lay blame. But other STDs can
remain hidden for months or even years, making it all but impossible to
trace the disease to a particular partner.
Missing symptoms: Men in particular are more likely to experience no obvious
STD symptoms even though they are infected and contagious. Such
"asymptomatic shedding" makes lawsuits more difficult by raising the
question of whether or not someone can be found to be legally negligent if
he unwittingly infects others.
Insurance exemptions: Companies offering personal liability coverage in
homeowner's policies long ago excluded protection for "intentional torts,"
including those that involve the knowing transmission of a disease, sexual
or otherwise. What's more, in many states "the laws are stacked against
people and in favor of the insurance companies,'' says David Nagle, a lawyer
in Austin, Texas.
Cultural attitudes and court venues: Where a lawsuit is filed can make all
the difference when it comes to deciding right and wrong, particularly in
cases of casual or extramarital sex.
Attorney Roderick Bushnell filed a lawsuit in liberal San Francisco in 1996
on behalf of an unmarried woman who contracted genital herpes after oral sex
with a casual partner. But the case was transferred to relatively
conservative Atlanta after the defendant convinced the court that the sexual
act occurred there.
Worried that a Georgia judge would scuttle the case -- according to
Bushnell, some Georgia jurists frown on casual sex and have been known to
quote the Bible in their decisions -- the woman opted to settle out of court
instead.
On the other hand, in 1998 the Maine Supreme Court ruled against a married
woman who tried to make her husband pay for the herpes that he got from his
mistress and subsequently gave to her. Legally, there was "no support" for
the wife's argument that the husband had breached his duty to be sexually
faithful during marriage, the judges wrote.
The fact is STDs are difficult to litigate no matter who's involved -- male
or female, married or unmarried. As a result, many plaintiffs are forced to
accept out-of-court settlements. Unfortunately, they don't become part of
case law, meaning that they can't be used to establish any precedent, and
even the financial terms are kept secret. For example, Robin Williams, the
San Francisco actor and comedian, fought a $6 million herpes claim by a
cocktail waitress, but paid her a settlement in 1992; the amount was not
disclosed.
Why Money Alone is Not Enough
But even the most generous settlement can't fully compensate those who have
contracted a chronic and sometimes incurable disease. Two of the most common
STDs are herpes simplex virus-2 (HSV-2), also known as genital herpes, and
human papilloma virus (HPV), which causes genital warts. (See The Scope of
STDs).
Herpes affects 45 million Americans and causes painful lesions around the
penis or vulva, along with flu-like symptoms such as fever and headache. HPV
affects another 20 million Americans and is believed to be a leading cause
of cervical and vulvar cancer. Both genital herpes and genital warts are
incurable.
Luckily, there is hope on the horizon, but it comes from medicine and not
the law: At least three companies are working on an HPV vaccine for the
prevention of cervical cancer, and at least two herpes drugs, called
"microbicides," have advanced to Phase II clinical trials.
Such treatments may one day erase the social stigma of STDs, which lawsuits
can only hope to ease.
Ashley (not her real name) was infected with herpes by her estranged
husband, a member of a wealthy, socially prominent family. Now she feels
like an outcast.
"I look at people differently now than before I was infected," she says. "I
used to think, 'There's a nice guy, I'll try to meet him.' Now I remember my
disease and feel sick to my stomach. My ability to date has been destroyed.
I feel mortified and dirty. I'd rather have cancer. There's no shame in
that.''
Scott Winokur often writes about health and medical issues.
tr...@webtv.net
trying to figure out how to handle this, because there is no queston in
my mind who gave this to me. As far as Angela being "sick and tired of
this", I've been posting to this NG for less than 2 months, and I
haven't seen the subject of Herpes & the Law brought up before. I
haven't made up my mind to pursue legal action, but a chapter in the
book I'm reading deals with this issue and I was wondering if any of you
have taken that path & and how it went. I'm also not "sitting around and
feeling sorry for myself", I've probably gone out more than ever in the
6 or 7 weeks that I've had this disease, but the question of what to do
about it is still on my mind.
Sorry to hear about your situation MCat, and ty for the response.
arlynsg
I've been following this thread. But honestly, I don't remember anyone
coming in here saying that they had any experience with law suits. A well
known one many years ago was when Robin Williams was sued for giving someone
herpes. But I don't remember the outcome of that.
I can see your logic. If we don't punish them, then they think what they
did was okay. I just don't know the answer to this. It seems to me that
bringing a lawsuit against them would only cause you trouble because it
probably won't change someone who doesn't have a conscious. I would think
that sitting down with the person and telling them how you feel about what
happened would have more effect. How do you think this girl knew she had
herpes? You know, when I was first diagnosed, I knew what herpes was. But
I didn't know anything about venereal warts. I knew my doctor said I had
them and that I was being treated for them. But beyond that, my doctor
explained nothing to me about the fact that they were an std and contagious.
So, I knew I had them. But, can you sue me for giving them to you because
my doctor didn't tell me exactly what I had? I don't know. It just gets
rather confusing.
Take care,
ar
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22871-3DB...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> "You just need to get over it and move on. Unless you were forced at
> gun point to have sex . . . drop it."
> Angela
>
> I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, but by your logic, if somebody has
> Herpes and knows it, they should be able to continue sleeping around
> without protection & not mention the disease to the people they have sex
> with, and if they happen to infect somebody, they can just use your
> above statement with no fear of punishment. I'm just pointing out that
> there ARE laws against that. Do you believe that there should be no such
> laws? As I've said, it seems to me that they should be punished in some
> way. But of course, that's just my opinion.
>
> As far as me being 50% responsible....If she knew she had it, which I
> believe is the case, by law she is 100% responsible for letting me
> know before us having sex.
>
> I understand your point that it would be difficult to win such a case,
> but it's not impossible, and according to what I've read, people have
> won these cases.
>
>
>
>
Angela
I have had herpes for six years and during that time have heard just about
everything I can possibly hear about pointing the finger and passing blame.
I'm not saying that is what you are trying to do . . . I'm simply saying
that I wish people would take more responsibility for their part in the
situation and take responsibility for what is "theirs". Nobody forced
anybody to have sex. I think people should always tell their partners what
they have and if they aren't sure I believe they should go in together and
get tested for everything they can get their hands on before starting a
sexual relationship. It's not impossible to be responsible. If my husband
and I could do it when we first started dating *before* we had sex then I
believe others can take that higher road as well. Sure, it puts a damper on
sex but you know what? It's better to have relief vs. tension and complete
honesty goes much further. Trying to blame somebody for something that is
50% your doing is just ridiculous to me.
Especially when there is a history of sex with more than one person in a
lifetime. No offense to you.
You certainly have a right to ask if anybody has pursued such a lawsuit.
For those of you out there that are thinking about doing such a thing . . .
not only is it a waste of time but it doesn't erase your part in the act.
Rapes and Violence being involved in such an equation obviously puts a
different spin on it. I won't go there . . .
I hope you have a great weekend tryck.
If you have any questions about herpes . . . you know where to find me.
Angela
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4876-3DB...@storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net...
tr...@webtv.net
gun point to have sex . . . drop it."
Angela
I'm so sorry that you were raped. I've never been raped before . . . at
least not completely . . . so I don't know how that feels. I'm glad that
you have the courage and the strength to learn what you can and the choice
to take the high road in this . . . you GO GIRL! :)
{{{{{{{BIGHUGEHUGSFORJESS}}}}}}}}}}
Angela
"mishaisacat" <mishaisaSP...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aph5cm$ioe$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
Angela
> gun point to have sex . . . drop it."
> Angela
>
> I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, but by your logic, if somebody has
> Herpes and knows it, they should be able to continue sleeping around
> without protection & not mention the disease to the people they have sex
> with, and if they happen to infect somebody, they can just use your
> above statement with no fear of punishment.
I am in no way shape or form condoning a person to be cruel and sleep around
and not tell people what they have when they know what they have. I am
saying that BEFORE people make the decision to have sex . . . they need to
collectively TALK ABOUT STD's and GO GET TESTED . . . BEFORE They hop into
bed together.
Going around and sueing people is not going to change the fact that two
people made a choice to sleep together without discussion or testing.
> I'm just pointing out that
> there ARE laws against that. Do you believe that there should be no such
> laws? As I've said, it seems to me that they should be punished in some
> way. But of course, that's just my opinion.
That is your opinion.
You are not looking at it from the same angle that I am.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions and STOP blaming
others for what they get as a result of choiced that they made of free will.
> As far as me being 50% responsible....If she knew she had it, which I
> believe is the case, by law she is 100% responsible for letting me
> know before us having sex.
YOU are also 100% responsible for making her get tested for everything that
you can and being present when the results are read. YOU OWE THAT TO
YOURSELF. I did it to my husband when we were dating BEFORE we had sex. WE
BOTH wanted to be sure that herpes was the ONLY std WE were dealing with. :)
I wish more people would take that type of responsibility BEFORE they jump
into the sack with somebody.
YOU are responsible for YOUR BODY.
> I understand your point that it would be difficult to win such a case,
> but it's not impossible, and according to what I've read, people have
> won these cases.
You are missing the point.
Blessings,
Angela
>
Angela
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6810-3DA...@storefull-2356.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Have any of you in this NG attempted a lawsuit after acquiring Genital
> Herpes?
NO. I had no interest in doing such a thing when I contracted herpes from
somebody that new and didn't tell.
I am responsible for MY actions. I am responsible for MY HERPES.
> I've read this it is difficult, but possible, to win such a
> case.
Yes, it is difficult.
Yes, anything is possible.
I'm sure you will make your own choice in spite of what others have done.
Be a leader and not a follower. :)
Good Luck!
Angela
tr...@webtv.net
Angela
The whole point of this thread was to discuss the legal side of it.
You keep pointing out that it's half my fault because I should have been
tested along with her, and of course, you are right about that. All (or
almost all) of us in this NG should have done that. But that really has
no relevance in a court room. By law, if a person knows they are
infected, the MUST let any sex partner of their's know or they are
criminally liable. I'm not making this up (LOL).
Just to compare your views to the actual laws.......
You Believe: "You are
100% responsible for making her get tested for everything that you can
and being present when the results are read"
"People need to take responsibility for their own actions and STOP
blaming others for what they get as a result of choises that they made
of free will"
Now for the legal:
"The legal definition of intentional can be surprisingly broad and
encompass situations in which the infected person had no desire to harm
his of her sexual partner. While the consent to intercourse would seem
to be an invitation to contact, the consent does not extend to acquiring
sexually transmitted infections."
I agree with you that people should get tested before hopping into bed
with each other. For your own personal benefit, it is the right thing to
do. But from a legal standpoint, it really doesn't mean much. In my
case, the lady I was with told me that she hadn't been with another man
in 5 years, and that she gets A full STD test every year. She came down
to visit about the beginning of September (She's in Memphis, I'm in Fort
Lauderdale), and we spent 5 days together. The blisters started before
she left, and about 3 or 4 days after she left I had sores & severe
burning while urinating. I told her this and she never asked anything
about it, just trying to change the subject when I brought it up. When I
was diagnosed with Herpes, I asked her for a copy of her most recent
test, and she admitted that she had never taken one. I asked her to get
tested & send me the results & she said she did. She told me she sent
the original copy, but 2 weeks later it never showed up (she said the
Post Office lost it.) She finally faxed something with scribble that I
couldn't read. So yes, I could have avoided all of this by simply
getting tested first. I trusted her, & that was a mistake. But misplaced
trust also wouldn't come into play in court. I now have Herpes, and I am
legally responsible for letting all sexually partners know that.
I would like to mention this one more time:
"While consent to intercourse would seem to be an invitation to
contact, the consent does not extend to acquiring sexually transmitted
infections"
That's the law, you just don't agree with the law.
tr...@webtv.net
or any disease, there should be some possibility of punishment.
Let me ask you this: Do you think that there should be laws against
the spreading of contagious diseases? Ever since I asked the question:
"Has anybody ever tried taking this to court?", you've been responding
with things like "I'm so sick & tired of this", "If they didn't put a
gun to your head . . . drop it", "It's your body & you're responsible,
so deal with it". From what I gather, you simply hate that fact that
these laws exist, and you hate it even more that I'm pointing out the
fact that these laws exist. And you hate me for asking if anybody ever
tried this in court!!!! (LOL). A simple yes or no would have been
sufficient, but, as I said before, I appreciate you taking the time . .
even though we are not on the same page, maybe not even on the same
subject it seems at times.
tr...@webtv.net
Angela, as I've said countless times now (have you been reading
carefully?), I'm not planning a lawsuit. I asked a simple question, and
ever since, I have been trying to explain this very simple question to
you. Your responses would be perfect if the title of the thread was
"Herpes Prevention". Your telling me I should have been tested with her,
even though it's been almost two months ago......a little late for that
advice. I know I'm wasting my time by typing this again, since you've
seemingly ignored it the first 50 times (LOL), but IF A PERSON HAS IT
AND DOESN'T TELL THEIR SEXUAL PARTNERS THAT THEY HAVE IT, THEY ARE
CRIMINALLY LIABLE. I am responsible for my own body....Ok, I saw that
response from you several times now. Of course, we all are responsible
for our own bodies. But in the eyes of the law.....nevermind (LOL). Go
back & read my prior posts regarding the law, I copied it straight from
the book. I can't cut, copy, & paste it now, and I'm not about to type
all that again. We are going in circles and we are on lap 10 right
about now. I'm no expert on the law, but if " We are responsible for our
own bodies", and the infected person has no responsibilty to tell, as
you seem to think, there would be no such laws.
Angela
possible that you may have got herpes from somebody else. Perhaps she has a
history of cold sores and fever blisters. You can still get genital herpes
from oral sex. Cold sores and fever blisters are herpes. You are still
missing the point. :)
Nobody put a gun to your head and made you sleep with any of the people that
you chose to sleep with . . .
YOU are responsible for YOUR BODY. Nobody is going to speak louder for you
than you could do for yourself. YOU GOT herpes and there is really nobody
to blame here . . . if you want to point fingers then point the finger to
the ABREVA commercial that refuses to say "ORAL HERPES" instead of "cold
sore". If you want to point fingers then point it to the people that decide
what is included in the routine std testing process.
Herpes isn't included in that process. If you could point the finger you
might be able to go these routes but you can't. You know why? Because you
made a CHOICE for YOUR BODY. If this girl didn't have herpes and you had
not developed sores or lesions it might have been HIV. Feel blessed that
your situation isn't worse than you think it is and count your blessings.
If you want to be buddies with a lawyer "Go For It". It doesn't change the
fact that you made a choice. Right or Wrong You Made YOUR Choice. You have
to live with it.
Hopefully you will do the right thing and stop pointing the finger. Since
you know so much about the law I can't hardly understand why on Earth you
would be looking for somebody to justify your stance on this issue.
Good Luck and no hard feelings.
FYI: I'm rootin' for The Longhorns in Saturdays Game!
Anybody Else Watch College Football?
Hook Em' Horns!!! :-)
;-)
Angela
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18928-3DB...@storefull-2352.public.lawson.webtv.net...
tr...@webtv.net
subject, but hey, I changed my mind.
How many times have you mentioned finger pointing?? In one of your
earlier posts, you mentioned that the guy who gave this to you had &
knew clear as day he had it. Is that not finger pointing??
I'm not trying to get anybody to "justify my stance". I'm simply
pointing out that court is an option. You can go to court over this &
possibly win. There are laws against spreading contagious diseases.
Those are facts. You can argue & complain & scream & yell all you want,
but those are the facts. I'm not sure what you are trying to argue.
Maybe that the legal route isn't the right way to go? My guess, it
depends on the situation. Once again, -sigh-, I'm not making plans to go
to court. I'm not encouraging other people to go to court. I'm still
relatively new to this disease. I went out & bought myself a book on
Herpes to learn more about it. I read a chapter in the book concerning
Herpes & the Law. I come in here and ask the question "Has anybody went
to court over this?" I get my head bitten off by somebody named Angela.
Oh well... Ok, Nobody has tried it in court......ty for your time on
this thread everyone.
Tim Fitzmaurice
> seemingly ignored it the first 50 times (LOL), but IF A PERSON HAS IT
> AND DOESN'T TELL THEIR SEXUAL PARTNERS THAT THEY HAVE IT, THEY ARE
> CRIMINALLY LIABLE. I am responsible for my own body....Ok, I saw that
IIRC this law in England is a subclass of the assorted causing injury
laws, which again IIRC, not being a lawyer are often crimes of specific
intent - which places a burden of proving that the intent was to spread
the herpes....US law is predominantly based upon English law may well be
the same....Larry Stanberry said 'might' if I remember correctly in the
passage you quoted and he too is not a lawyer.
Its clear that civil cases can be taken out but they are a whole different
ballpark.....
I would given the complexities of the law at least go looking in a law
text rather than Managing Herpes for details of explicit legal
obligations, and specific intent and its meaning would be one area Id
definitely want to clear up.....
I think all we can say so far is that, yes you may be at risk of assorted
legal actions if you pass it on.
Tim
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568
Lady
tr...@webtv.net wrote:
> IF A PERSON HAS IT
> AND DOESN'T TELL THEIR SEXUAL PARTNERS THAT THEY HAVE IT, THEY ARE
> CRIMINALLY LIABLE.
While this is true in black and white words, I would think it would be
pretty difficult to prove that a person knew they had it since many people
can have it for years and years and never know (by the way --- I read the
same book you did and it also does state in the book that you can have it
for years and never know) and how would one prove that the person didn't
tell the other?
Lady
there shouldn't be any laws. However, I think what she is trying to point
out is -- if you don't ask a person to be tested and you have unprotected
sex, why should the person you are having sex with be 100% to blame?
Let's say you pick up a gun in someone's house and they don't tell you
there are bullets in it and you hold it to your head and shoot
yourself.....is that person responsible? Did you ask if there were bullets
in or did you take responisbility knowing there was a chance a gun could
have bullets.
If you don't know a person well enough there is a chance they can carry a
disease.....if you don't ask you don't know....maybe they don't even
know...
Now....on the other hand......if you specifically ask a person if they have
herpes and they said "no" and you sleep with them and you later find out
that they did in fact have a test previously and knew they tested
positive...well, then I can see intent. But if they had never been
tested, never had symptoms and have no clue....how can they be at fault??
While I understand the "eyes of the law" I still believe it would be
extremely difficult to prove.
tr...@webtv.net
it. Somebody mentioned in an earlier post that medical records are
private, but I think (not sure) they would be turned over to the court
in the case of a lawsuit.
As I've said, I'm no expert on the law. I didn't even know that there
were specific laws on spreading Genital Herpes until I read this book.
All I know is what I read in the book, and I lent that book out, and
don't even have that to refer to at the moment. As for the question "How
can you prove the other person didn't tell you?", you would have to ask
a lawyer. There's a guy I play racquetball with from time to time who's
a lawyer. I will ask him about some of these things & see what he says.
Lady, in that book, I believe there was mention of a case in 1996 in
which somebody won $600,000 in a Herpes case. Am I right or wrong? As I
said, I don't have the book here, but it was something like that.
Angela
I agree 200% w/everything you have stated here in your post!!!!
Thank you for speaking up!!!!
Angela
"Lady" <La...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3DBF23F4...@nospam.com...
TBethEve
THEY ARE CRIMINALLY LIABLE.
I'm going to throw my two cents worth into this thread. I personally believe
that if a person knows he/she has herpes and fails to tell his/her sexual
partner about it, then he/she should be held accountable in a civil court of
law for his/her actions should the sexual partner contract it.
We are all aware that we have a moral and ethical obligation to tell our
potential sex partners about our herpetic status BEFORE becoming intimate with
them. Those who refuse to do so for whatever reason should face the
consequences of their actions.
Sure, in an ideal world, people ask questions about a person's STD status
before going to bed with him/her. But since we do not live in an ideal world,
I don't think it's fair to blast someone, or tell him to get over it, just
because he got caught up in the moment and forgot to ask that all important
question. That's like pouring salt into the wound, don't you think?
Let's quit judging those for something we would not like to be judged for.
Beth :-)
tr...@webtv.net
can't imagine sleeping with somebody without telling them about my
Herpes first, and without a doubt, telling them IS my obligation.
Imagine if somebody who knew they had Herpes slept with somebody else
& infected them, and all they had to say was "Hey, you're 100%
responsible for your own body. I didn't put a gun to your head. Stop
trying to bring me down....drop it!!". Was I misinterpreting what Angela
was saying earlier, or does she believe that somebody should walk free
with no worries of punishment in a scenario such as this?
tr...@webtv.net
Lady
When I mentioned that you can take somebody to court over Genital
Herpes, she called the idea "ridiculous". She seemed totally against the
idea. Did you read her earlier posts? If she shes the idea of taking
somebody to court "ridiculous", then she must not see the point in
having laws against spreading herpes. Why would she see a point in
having laws against it if she doesn't see a point in going to court over
it??
shinysneakers
to mind after reading this thread. If people become legally responsible (and thus
can be punished by the law) for transmitting herpes to someone, where do we draw
the line? Is it ever acceptable to transmit herpes to someone, or can every case
have legal repercussions? Here are some examples example cases:
1. you pass type II to someone genital to genital
2. you pass type II to someone genital to oral
3. you pass type II to someone oral to genital
4. you pass type II to someone oral to oral
5. you pass type I to someone genital to genital
6. you pass type 1 to some oral to genital
7. you pass type 1 to someone genital to oral
8. you pass type 1 to someone oral to oral
9. you pass mono onto somone
10. you pass chicken pox onto someone
Now of course some (or all) of these seem absurd. For example, #8. I think someone
would be laughed out of court for trying to sue someone for getting a "cold sore"
on their lip. How about #9 and #10 then? These can be much more serious in immune
deprived individuals, and can be recurring AND are both part of the herpes family.
People can also carry both of these varieties of herpes viruses without showing
symptoms (just like they can carry HSV I or II without showing any symptoms). So
when does it start to become ridiculous to make getting any of these viruses a
legal matter?
Quoting from a post of tryck's, "I think it all comes down to whether or not the
person knew they had it. " I have dated MANY people with cold sores on their lips,
all of whom knew they had it. Of course the logic that was used was that if we
didn't kiss when they had a sore, I wouldn't get it. Well that worked I suppose, I
never did get oral herpes, BUT I did get genital herpes type I. So who did I get
it from? I suppose any of the guys I dated that oral type I and I had oral sex
with. So since ALL of these guys knew they had oral herpes do I take the first guy
to court? the 2nd? or possibly the last guy since my first outbreak was a couple
weeks after oral sex with him? or possibly I should just take them ALL to court
and set a precedent that we won't settle for this crazy herpes virus being
transmitted within the human population?
I'm going off on a bit of a tangent and I don't even know if I agree with
everything I am saying. My point is, that often herpes is transmitted to others
due to lack of education. People that know they have it don't think they can
transmit it to others when there is no outbreak, and often because they are told
this by medical professionals!! For years I didn't realize I could transmit my
genital type I without an outbreak, I thought if oral type I couldn't be passed
when there was no sore, how could genital type I?? Well we all know that this
logic is completely wrong.
So, is ignorance when it comes to herpes a good enough defense? Should you be
punished because you passed on something you didn't even know you had, or didn't
know you could pass on? Should you be legally responsible if you are fully
educated on the subject and intentionally pass it on, and possibly not if you were
uneducated about it?
For all I know I could have got my herpes from the first guy I ever had oral sex
with, which would mean I didn't exhibit any symptoms until 6 years later. In that
time I could have potentially passed it on genitally to any other guy I had sex
with. Do I think I should be held legally reponsible if one of those guys came to
sue me for giving him herpes? No, I don't. Do I sometimes wish I could
sue/punch/disfigure/educate the guy who I am pretty sure gave it to me? Yes, but
the only one I can see myself realistically doing is educating him. The more we
get the word out, the more medical professional are taught in school and tell
their patients, the more schools and parents teach children about herpes, the
better off we are and the less we will have to worry about even thinking of taking
anyone to court.
</End of rambling gibberish>
Shiny
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4876-3DB...@storefull-2357.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Angela
completely wrong.
But if somebody jumps into bed with somebody that has herpes and they don't
know that they have it . . . why would you go back and blame the person that
you got it from? How do you even know that where you got herpes from if you
have had more than one sexual partner in your lifetime? Also, it takes two
people to have sex. The responsibility relies on both parties who choose to
have sex with each other. Yes, he got caught up in the moment but hopefully
he learned from his mistake and will do the right thing. Perhaps the person
he had sex with will also learn and do the right thing if she did not know
that she had herpes. If she did know that she had herpes and he did indeed
get herpes from her then that is wrong. But, it's also wrong that he didn't
take more precautions to be safer. Ultimately . . . each person has to take
responsibility for their own body.
I don't think anybody was judging anyone.
50 cents more of my thoughts on the matter,
Angela
"TBethEve" <tbet...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021029214751...@mb-bd.aol.com...
Lady
tr...@webtv.net wrote:
> I think it all comes down to whether or not the person knew they had
> it. Somebody mentioned in an earlier post that medical records are
> private, but I think (not sure) they would be turned over to the court
> in the case of a lawsuit.
Exactly....but that's the tricky point --- medical records are confidential
unless court ordered....but it's not very easy to get a court order. You'd
have to have significant cause to believe they contain relative
information. Therefore, you'd have to basically have all your papers files
along with motions on why you believe the medical records will prove your
case.
For example -- in my case (yeah and you can go ahead and laugh - it is
pretty funny after the fact) -- if I really wanted to file a case against my
ex I'd probably be able to -- he was the only guy I was ever with (high
school sweethearts) whom I sincerely trusted (ha ha ha ha.....now I know
better)....anyway he worked crazy hours, came home late one night - I was
already sound asleep in bed (we didn't live together, but he came over
frequently after work).....woke me in the middle of the night....made love
(if that's what you call it)....the next morning when I attempted to wake
him the same way I felt something like a scab on him -- questioned him and
was told it was a scab from getting caught in a zipper while dressing too
quickly.....guess what I got less than a week later!?!?! So, am I pretty
sure he knew what he had ...... oh baby yes...since when I told him my
diagnosis he didn't bat an eye!
So would I have reasonable cause to believe there was somehting in his
medical records? Probably.....but....now here's a tricky question for you
---- what if he knew what it was (from repeated outbreaks) or had suspicions
he had it but had never went to a doctor to be tested? Hmmmm.....now there
would be no proof in the medical files would there? In my case - the first
doc I saw told me I had a bladder infection and sent me home....the second
told me I was sore for "aggressive intercourse" .... finally the third took
a culture.....now had I not been persistent I would have been misdiagnoses
and although might have suspicions would be happy to believe I was disease
free and go on living my life happily ever after with nothing to
substantiate the fact in my medical records.
>
> As I've said, I'm no expert on the law. I didn't even know that there
> were specific laws on spreading Genital Herpes until I read this book.
> All I know is what I read in the book, and I lent that book out, and
> don't even have that to refer to at the moment. As for the question "How
> can you prove the other person didn't tell you?", you would have to ask
> a lawyer. There's a guy I play racquetball with from time to time who's
> a lawyer. I will ask him about some of these things & see what he says.
I'd be interested in hearing what he has to say.....I know I have told
anyone that I remotely thought I would be intimate with (I've probably told
more people than really need to know) about it before the fact. But, it
does always lurk in the back of my mind that it always comes down to my word
vs their word -- what if they were to say I never told them? How do I prove
that I did? Do I have to call in everyone I've ever told to establish the
fact that I am responsible in my actions? It does get scary at times.
>
> Lady, in that book, I believe there was mention of a case in 1996 in
> which somebody won $600,000 in a Herpes case. Am I right or wrong? As I
> said, I don't have the book here, but it was something like that.
Yes, there was a case - I don't know the specifics, but I recall something
to the fact that it was established that the person knew they had it. I
think even with the case involving Robin Williams - I believe (and I may be
wrong) that his ex wife had testified against him that he was diagnosed
several years before and knew he had it.
Angela
the fact that we have lots of laws in this country and it doesn't mean that
people are going to follow them. Look at the sniper that shot all those
people. Bottom line . . . no matter what the law says we still need to take
responsibility for our own bodies and our own choices and actions.
Good Post MishaisaCat!
Happy Halloween You Guys!
Be Safe!
:-)
Angela
"mishaisacat" <mishaisaSP...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:appk5l$49c$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
> Actually, I think I was the one who used the term ridiculous first. Of
> course, it all depends on a case by case kind of thing. I can imagine
> certain, rare situations where it might seem reasonable, but, by and
large,
> I think it's silly to sue someone who got you sick. Coz they could sue
> someone who got them sick, and so on until we were suing the estates of
dead
> people. It makes as much sense to sue the virus itself or to sue God. I
> don't sue when I get the flu, and I didn't sue the public school where I
> contracted chicken pox, which could come back and visit me as shingles
> later. Diseases spread. Not everything can or should be regulated by
law.
> It makes me think of when some state legislature tried to pass a law
making
> pi 3, so it'd be nice and even and Biblical. We just cain't tell pi what
to
> be.
>
> The instances where it ceases to be ridiculous is when you can prove that
> someone DELIBERATELY transmitted the infection with the INTENT to cause
> personal INJURY or HARM. Now that's pretty tough, not to mention our old
> claim that it'd be hard to prove.
>
> Frankly, and this might upset people a lot, but as far as injury and harm
> go, herpes isn't baddest mf in the gangs of viruses and illnesses. It's
> relatively easy to control (there are exceptions, of course) and,
> apparently, in most cases is so mild as to be unnoticeable except by blood
> test. It's easier to maintain and less risky than diabetes. It's not
> disfiguring. It's not fatal. In most cases, it's not all that bad. I'm
> not sure, but I don't think it's as bad as tuberculosis, hepatitis, or e.
> coli, which the meat packing industries and USDA barely test for and only
> rarely publicly announce recalls on, and then only after most of the
> contaminated meat has already been eaten and scores have already died (see
> also recent lysteria outbreak). It's certainly no HIV that's guaranteed
to
> be expensive, excruciating, and (potentially) deadly.
>
> Is it right for someone to knowingly pass on a disease? No way. But I
have
> to wonder how they got it? Probably not knowingly. I wonder how many
> people on this list knowingly took the chance of getting HSV? Probably
> fewer than not, because HSV is a sneaky disease that something like 80% of
> the people who have it don't even know that they do.
>
> I guess I feel like you have to pick your battles, and unless the person
is
> loaded with money and ready to settle out rather than face a trial, I'm
not
> sure what there is to be gained.
>
> In summary, even though I think it's wrong to not disclose hsv status, I
> don't think, in general, that herpes by iteself is a bad enough thing to
sue
> over, even if that option legally exists.
>
> mishaisacat
>
>
> <tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:22871-3DB...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Lady
she ever said that if you knew you had herpes you shouldn't tell. I believe
what she said is that you are responsible for asking that your partner get
an STD test as many people do not even know they have herpes, so if you
don't ask you need to accept the fact that you are placing yourself at risk
since the other person may not even know they are infected.
One other point to keep in mind along those lines --- what happens if you
sleep with someone who has herpes, but doesn't know they have it? You get
it. Now you both go and get tested and both test positive --
hmmmm.....who's to blame here? Hard answer unless one of you was a
virgin......it's possible that you actually had it and gave it to your
partner unknowingly --- hard to say who actually had it first and who gave
it to whom.
And, lastly I think the medical community contributes to people not telling
-- even if a person knows they have herpes they can be totally misinformed
about transmission as well -- I know I took it upon myself to read
everything I could get my hands on when I was diagnosed -- and even now
think I know more than my doctor does about it. When I was first diagnosed
and questioned my doc about transmission I was told "don't worry about it
unless you are having an outbreak you have nothing to worry about" - that
would give one the impression that they only need to tell their partner if
they are in the midst of an outbreak. So with that scenario -- the doctor
should be punished for providing inaccurate medical information.
If anything - I think herpes is the most confusing ailment around - I hate
to even call it a disease anymore since so many people out there are
infected.
Lady
You have great points -- and also what happens if you're a married couple one with and
one without -- do you sue your spouse? Ok, no you don't sue your spouse, but what
happens if you divorce? Bigger settlement since now you are tainted?
Too many factors if you ask me!
mishaisacat
mishaisacat
<tr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22871-3DB...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Angela
> Yes, I think you TOTALLY misunderstood what Angela had said. I don't
think
> she ever said that if you knew you had herpes you shouldn't tell.
Thanks Lady. Anybody that knows me well enough and long enough knows that I
do not condone maliciously passing around any std. It's wrong. People do
wrong things all the time. That is why we can not trust every tom, dick,
harry, or sally we decide to sleep with. Even if you have "the talk" and
that person says they are "clean" or believes that they do not have any
std's to share . . . you can't go on their word. You have to physically see
the results of the testing for yourself. That is exactly what my husband
and I did when we were dating and we did this *before* we jumped into bed.
He was worth the wait to make sure we got it right the first time. Also,
it's important for couples to go through this process together and to ask
the clinic that they decide to get tested at what std's they specifically
test for because herpes is *not* included in that std testing process. Many
people think that it is when it is not. The only person you can trust
really is yourself so it is your responsibility to make sure you know what
you are getting into. You can't just hop into bed with somebody and expect
without discussion or testing that everything is "ok". Who is to blame when
people go around doing that? Good Lord! Lordy! :)
Thanks Lady!!! :)
{{{{{Hugs}}}}}
Angela
Angela
> Hey Angela --- I'm glad we are agreeing --- unlike last time (hee hee)
> I might be a "quiet lurker" but I do speak up when I have something I feel
I
> need to get off my chest or say LOL :-)
LOL You know . . . I completely understand why you might choose to lurk.
Heck . . . I wouldn't even know have of the crap that is negative being said
about me thanks to my handy dandy "blocking" agent. I'm glad that you do
speak up. It's important. I'm to the point where if I start to get
harrassed I just block the person and then what I don't see won't hurt me.
It's a good thing! :) :) :) I'm glad we are on the same page with this one
as welll. But even if we weren't I think you and I would be just fine. :)
:) :)
{{{{Hugs}}}}}
Angela
Lady
I might be a "quiet lurker" but I do speak up when I have something I feel I
need to get off my chest or say LOL :-)
Angela
> I think and of course I could be totally wrong here (Angela care to
comment)
> -- I think what she refers to "ridiculous" is when a person does not ask
the
> other person about their sexual history or STD status or ask for tests
prior
> to sleeping with someone and then when they do discover they have come
down
> with something want to put the entire blame on the other person.
EXACTLY!!!! Thank You Lady!!!! :)
> I believe that is how she interpreted it -- that one is seeking to put the
> entire blame on the other person and not taking responsibility for
> requesting test results.
EXACTLY RIGHT!!!!! It's like . . . me jumping into bed for a night of fun
sex and finding out two weeks later through the most unbearable primary
flare up that I have genital herpes. Sure . . . I was really ticked off
because I know for a fact that the guy had herpes and didn't tell me. It's
dissapointing . . . especially when you "assume" honesty is a give in. Boy
did I learn the hard way NEVER to assume anything! Yes, the guys was wrong
for diliberately partaking in sex with me. BUT, it took me TWO LONG YEARS
to finally admit MY PART in my acquisition of herpes from that man. I am
responsible for MY BODY. I am responsible for MY HERPES. I choose to do
things the right way and I quickly put this lying sack of shit out of my
mind. :) :) :)
I'm a better person for admitting my part in the ACT OF SEX. It takes two
or more people to have sex and get it on for a short time of fun and frolic.
It was completely MY RESPONSIBILITY to know better and never to assume
anything. THANK GOD I AM NOT GOING TO DIE.
Six years later I'm dumb-founded that people go around and blame others for
the situation that they had a part in . . . THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
> On my own side note -- hindsight always being a great thing after the
fact,
> I think now I would have requested actual results instead of "taking one's
> word" --- now that I know enough about this it's very possible that if
one
> were to ask if they had any STDs one could honestly say no and actually
have
> herpes without ever knowing.
That's what my husband and I did when we were dating.
I got to listen to his test results over the telephone.
He went down town with me to the free aids clinic and waited with me for the
results of my HIV test.
THAT IS BEING RESPONSIBLE. :) :) :)
Thanks Lady!!! :)
Angela
Lady
shinysneakers wrote:
>
>
> And even if the person was a virgin first, it doesn't mean they didn't pass it on
> to you. A virgin could easily pass along asymptomatic oral herpes type I to your
> genitals. Just didn't want people to think that being with a virgin makes you
> immune from getting herpes, they can have it to without knowing it (although most
> likely not genitally).
>
Good catch! I keep forgetting about the "cold sore" herpes since no one in the real
word ever gives them a second thought --- when was the last time you dated someone
who said "Oh are you sure you want to kiss me? I get cold sores"
>
> > And, lastly I think the medical community contributes to people not telling
> > -- even if a person knows they have herpes they can be totally misinformed
> > about transmission as well -- I know I took it upon myself to read
> > everything I could get my hands on when I was diagnosed -- and even now
> > think I know more than my doctor does about it. When I was first diagnosed
> > and questioned my doc about transmission I was told "don't worry about it
> > unless you are having an outbreak you have nothing to worry about" - that
> > would give one the impression that they only need to tell their partner if
> > they are in the midst of an outbreak. So with that scenario -- the doctor
> > should be punished for providing inaccurate medical information.
>
> Wow, do I agree with this Lady! So true, so true.
>
> <snip>
Lady
tr...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Lady, in that book, I believe there was mention of a case in 1996 in
> which somebody won $600,000 in a Herpes case. Am I right or wrong? As I
> said, I don't have the book here, but it was something like that.
I couldn't find anything about anyone winning $$$ in a herpes case -- it did
mention that one did win a case where the person KNEW they had it! Here
goes --- the book I will be quoting from is Managing Herpes. How to Live
and Love with a Chronic STD by Charles Ebel and Anna Wald. It's the most
recent edition (I waited 2 extra months to get it!!). It's copyrighted 2002
and published through the American Social Health Association (ASHA - which
by the way has an excellent website). Tryck - I believe this is the same
book you have since your quote about "in the eyes of the court" starts on
page 215. Angela -- the last paragraphs of this post are for you girl!
Chapter 19 Legal Issues (Page 213) -- I will quote (although not the entire
chapter)
Third Chapter on page 213 -- Lawsuits waged by one person against another
over sexually transmitted infections are often pointless. Not only is it
difficult (if not impossible) to prove when and from whom the injured party
contracted a particular STD, it may be equally difficult to establish that
the "guilty" party even knew he or she was infected. What's more, such
cases invade the privacy of both plaintiff and defendant and can be a
wrenching experience for everyone involved. Nonetheless, questions about
herpes and the courts do come up from time to time and you may want to know
a bit about the legal landscape.
Page 215 second paragraph -- Given the complex patchwork of local and state
jurisdictions, no one knows how many STD cases are pending at any given
time, but experts say that only a small percentage ever reach the courtroom.
Ok -- here comes tryck's quote and what also follows it that tryck did leave
out (I'm sure not on purpose)
Startig on page 215 (last paragraph)
While courts in various states might differ on the subtleties of
interpretation in STD cases the growing number of cases settled in recent
years is creating a legal consensus that a person has a legal right to know
about the health of a sex partner. Thus in the eyes of the court those with
an STD have a duty to disclose that fact to those with whom they are
sexually intimate. Lying to conceal an STD is often considered a form of
intentional infliction of harm. SImply failing to tell a partner about an
STD on the other hand is more likley viewed as an act of negligence.
By the very nature of the supposed wrongdoing, cases involving the
trnasmission of STDs are difficult to prove. Thing were said or notsaid,
actions were taken or not taken all in the heat of passion and rarely before
witnesses.
Ok...this last paragraph is especially for Angela......
Page 217 last paragraph
Some defense attorneys have been able to argue persuasively that anyone who
has unprotected sexual intercourse in today's society or who fails to ask
aboutthe secual health of a partner, is equally responsible for infections
that may be transmitted sexually, especially during a one night stand. In
less casual relationships, however, the courts are morelikely to see a lack
of candor as a breach of trust...........If someone with an STD tells his or
her partner in a meaningful way and gives the partner a choice abour sexual
involvement, grounds for legal action are vastly reduced. If on the other
hand, someone lies about or conceals the truth about his or her infection,
there is ample precedent to suggest he or she might be vulnerable in a legal
action.
Lady
Angela wrote:
>
>
>
> NEVER to assume anything!
I couldn't have said it better myself --- I "assumed" my ex was being faithful
-- he worked odd hours so never really knew where he was -- little did I know he
got married to a redhead with big boobs (his words NOT mine -- yes I was crazy
enough to ask what she had that I didn't and well, sometimes you really don't
want the real answer!) Mind you this was someone I was with for almost 10 years
(don't even ask cause I have no clue how he married someone and I had no clue
until he woke me at 2:00 a.m. to tell me -- of course this was also after he
divorced her because she was cheating on him -- how ironic huh -- it was ok for
him to be doing that but not her - isn't that a double standard?) And, yes, I
can totally laugh at all this now --- of course I wasn't back then, but it is
true -- time heals all wounds.
shinysneakers
> One other point to keep in mind along those lines --- what happens if you
> sleep with someone who has herpes, but doesn't know they have it? You get
> it. Now you both go and get tested and both test positive --
> hmmmm.....who's to blame here? Hard answer unless one of you was a
> virgin......it's possible that you actually had it and gave it to your
> partner unknowingly --- hard to say who actually had it first and who gave
> it to whom.
And even if the person was a virgin first, it doesn't mean they didn't pass it on
to you. A virgin could easily pass along asymptomatic oral herpes type I to your
genitals. Just didn't want people to think that being with a virgin makes you
immune from getting herpes, they can have it to without knowing it (although most
likely not genitally).
> And, lastly I think the medical community contributes to people not telling
> -- even if a person knows they have herpes they can be totally misinformed
> about transmission as well -- I know I took it upon myself to read
> everything I could get my hands on when I was diagnosed -- and even now
> think I know more than my doctor does about it. When I was first diagnosed
> and questioned my doc about transmission I was told "don't worry about it
> unless you are having an outbreak you have nothing to worry about" - that
> would give one the impression that they only need to tell their partner if
> they are in the midst of an outbreak. So with that scenario -- the doctor
> should be punished for providing inaccurate medical information.
Wow, do I agree with this Lady! So true, so true.
<snip>
Lady
tr...@webtv.net wrote:
I think and of course I could be totally wrong here (Angela care to comment)
-- I think what she refers to "ridiculous" is when a person does not ask the
other person about their sexual history or STD status or ask for tests prior
to sleeping with someone and then when they do discover they have come down
with something want to put the entire blame on the other person.
I believe that is how she interpreted it -- that one is seeking to put the
entire blame on the other person and not taking responsibility for
requesting test results.
On my own side note -- hindsight always being a great thing after the fact,
Angela
to go right to the pages and read everything for myself. Thank you for
sharing it with us word for word Lady. :-) I would like to encourage folks
that don't have this book to think about buying it. The money for the book
goes towards herpes research.
Here is a link on how you can order your copy:
https://www.ashastd.org/cgi-bin/manageherp.pl .
Thanks Lady!!! :-)
Angela
"Lady" <La...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3DC09845...@nospam.com...
tr...@webtv.net
TBethEve
the real
>word ever gives them a second thought --- when was the last time you dated
>someone who said "Oh are you sure you want to kiss me? I get cold sores"
For the record, cold sores are herpes and herpes are cold sores, regardless of
what area of the body they pop out on. Think of herpes in this manner and
you'll help destigmatize this virus.
Chrissy C
This is Jason H. using my girlfriends account.
Just to say that I off course have herpes downbelow and my G/F Chrissy C.
has oral herpes. When I met her she didn't know that cold sores were
herpes. I explained how it all worked and now she is fine. I use Valtrex
and she uses nothing but has infrequent OB's. We are both carefull and
everything goes well, very well ;-P
Now you may think that we can not transmit it to each other through oral
sex (F on M), but then she may have type 1 and I have type 2 and so then we
could transmit it the two to each other. But does it really matter as we
already suffer the end consiquence anyway? I think not.
P.S. Hey Beth how's life?
"TBethEve" <tbet...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20021031200806...@mb-fg.aol.com...
Swtrgrl
>sex (F on M), but then she may have type 1 and I have type 2 and so then we
>could transmit it the two to each other. But does it really matter as we
>already suffer the end consiquence anyway? I think not.
Hi, Jason
Glad to hear things are going well. I can only speak for myself, but one Herpes
virus in one single location on my body is plenty, thank-you very much.
Since you are on Valtrex, it's unlikely that your virus would transfer to your
GF. But if she has a different type than you, then yes- you could end up with
both. If you're ok with that, great.
Cheers
Mindy
melymelth...@gmail.com
James Wood
> Have any of you in this NG attempted a lawsuit after acquiring Genital
> Herpes? I've read this it is difficult, but possible, to win such a
> case.
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