CANTA 7 -- 1. apparently not compatible with RiteAid batteries; 2. major feedback problem
George Drury Smith
partly satisfied (I really like the sound quality and think my speech
dscrimination is improved), this has been a real trial and there is
still a major problem to be resolved. I have a moderate hearing loss
and wore Starkey analog for five years.
First the easy part: BATTERIES
I was having a lot of problems with the battery contacts. After a week
or so the audiologist and I thought the hearing aids were at fault,
but that's only partly true. Each was sent back for new contacts and
circuitry,, and it would be OK the first few days, then bam, same
problem all over again - battery would sometimes make contact only
when battery was partway in, and sometimes not at all. Well, finally I
figured out it might be the Rite-Aid brand No. 10 battery. (RiteAid
Drugstores just started stocking their own brand here, and they were
cheap, so I stocked up, since batteries only last about three days
with the Canta 7). I had kept a diary and finally analysed what was
happening, and realized it might be the batteries, not the hearing
aids. And lo and behold, with Ray-o-Vac I have had no problem. (But
the Rite-Aid batteries worked just fine with my old Starkey hearing
aids, so theCanta 7 people need to look at this, as do the RiteAd
people.)
HOWEVER, THE FEEDBACK I'm getting in my weaker ear is extremely
irritating and I don't think I can live with it. The Canta 7
manufacturer claims to have all this sophisticated stuff to kill
feedback, but it really doesn't work fo rme in this ear. The slightest
movement causes it sometimes, and if there is loud (TV) speech with
pauses or music (especially piano, where the sound is not continuous)
you can hear the feedback for afraction of a second after each burst
of sound.
Any thoughts on this? Is it the way it has been programmed? I'm about
to try a different aid.
Thomas Bunetta
"George Drury Smith" <georgedr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d8137547.0112...@posting.google.com...
>
<snip> I have a moderate hearing loss
> and wore Starkey analog for five years.
It takes the brain 90-120 days to fully adapt to different/new aids.
> First the easy part: BATTERIES
> I was having a lot of problems with the battery contacts.
<snipped>
aids. And lo and behold, with Ray-o-Vac I have had no problem. (But
> the Rite-Aid batteries worked just fine with my old Starkey hearing
> aids, so theCanta 7 people need to look at this, as do the RiteAd
> people.)
I have dispensed a LOT of Canta780's (BTE), and the batteries we sell last
2-3 weeks in the "power" behind the ear model. (Moderate gain, your milage
may vary)
'Ya get what 'ya pay for, I guess... and is it fair to blame the hearing aid
Mfg. for the leaky batteries?
You stated they had " (RiteAid Drugstores just started stocking their own
brand here, and they were
cheap...)"
Could their own be WORSE than before?
> HOWEVER, THE FEEDBACK I'm getting in my weaker ear is extremely
> irritating and I don't think I can live with it. The Canta 7
> manufacturer claims to have all this sophisticated stuff to kill
> feedback, but it really doesn't work fo rme in this ear. The slightest
> movement causes it sometimes, and if there is loud (TV) speech with
> pauses or music (especially piano, where the sound is not continuous)
> you can hear the feedback for afraction of a second after each burst
> of sound.
The aids DO have a pretty darn effictive method of limiting feedback, but
will (honestly) state that it cannot overcome a poor physical fit. Excessive
feedback originates from sound LEAKING from your ear (vent and/or lousy
fit!) and reaching the mike with enough intensity to begin a feedback loop.
Smaller hearing aids (ITE/ITC/CIC, in that descending order of mike to
vent/leak proximity.) offer more chance of feedback due to poor fit because
the returning sound is closer to the mike in the first place. And there
could be the chance that your loss (not stated) calls for a different model
(working from smallest to largest)...
<snipped>
>The slightest movement causes it sometimes, and if there is loud (TV)
speech with
>pauses or music (especially piano, where the sound is not continuous)
>you can hear the feedback for afraction of a second after each burst
>of sound.
<snipped>
Soft sounds generally geet the most gain and most people have a greater loss
in the highs... but you relate to loud sounds... do you hear any sound you
consider to be "Uncomfortably" loud?
The feedback suppression system at work! It just takes a fraction of a
second to decide feedback is present, then "squelches" it. (to the best of
it's ability... I use the feedback detection mode to verify or deny the fit
as "good" I know as it writes the screen if I need to get a remake.
> Any thoughts on this? Is it the way it has been programmed? I'm about
> to try a different aid.
At least try a better fitting shell/mold... with earmolds and ITE shells,
there is still to often a need for remakes. Even RE-remakes. And if the
dispenser is "new" to the aids encourage him/her to attend some of
GNResound's lectures on programming issues. They ARE different.
Tom
Bruce Maguire
I, too, am getting major feedback problems with the Canta. I am waiting for
a second set of molds to be made, this time with a smaller vent and from a
different material. I have found that the dynamic feedback suppression
system is completely useless. There is a setting that might be worth
looking at if your audiologist hasn't done so already: it has to do with
the response time. If set to "slow", the feedback that occurs with certain
specific sounds is lessened. I have had Phonak analogs for 5 years, and
have never had this feedback problem. If the new molds don't fix it, I'll
be seeking to return the Cantas. Having said that, though, I should add
that I have tried the Phonak Claro aid, and also had feedback problems with
it, though not as severe as with the Canta. Perhaps there are issues
specific to digital aids that predispose them to being more prone to
feedback.
Cheers
Bruce
On 26 Dec 2001 17:18:01 -0800, georgedr...@yahoo.com (George Drury
Thomas Bunetta
You are correct, both have a wider frequency response than most analogs...
and the FB limiter isn't useless, just forces one to get a good mold. The
"slow" setting on the FB limiter allows for sounds like a microwave beep to
be heard without diminishment.
IMHO, the Cantas are superior to the Claro. But, both are WAY ahead of the
rest of the pack.
Tom
"Bruce Maguire" <bruce...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:hdkl2u4el2k4gmu20...@4ax.com...
ockham3
I agree with Tom that the mold is crucial. Also, the taking of the
impression is vital. If the dispenser does a poor, rushed job with the
impression, the mold cannot make up for it.
Michael
"Thomas Bunetta" <ea...@ewol.com> wrote in message
news:n6DW7.38608$rM5....@news.webusenet.com...
Bruce Maguire
I don't retreat from my previous comment that the dynamic feedback
suppression system is useless. This is based on my experience of before and
after it has been run, and also on the advertising claims that GN make for
it in the literature promoting the Canta. Moreover, I cannot agree that
feedback is simply a function fo poor fitting - again based on my
experience. It seems to me that the whole question of feedback needs
further work at a technical level. Digital aids such as the Canta may be on
the technological cutting edge, and it would be interesting to know what
"beta testing" programmes the various manufacturers have.
Another concern that I have with the Canta is that it seems to be much more
prone to picking up digital interference from mobile (cell) phones than,
say, the Claro, Signia or Bernafon. Given that it is later technologically
than these (which shows in its superior signal processing and more flexible
programming) this seems a little surprising.
Cheers
Bruce
Michael
supports your contention? Perhaps you perspire abnormally or forget to
change batteries, trying to lengthen battery life. All these things and more
can make for a flawed idea of a supposed defect in a product.
None of the hundreds of people I have seen have reported anything like your
observation.
Scientific data, please, rather than unsubstantiated speculation based on a
sample of one.
If you don't like the aids, it is your privilege to return them and go back
to your analogs.
Michael
"Bruce Maguire" <bruce...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:vgbm2u8ueggqac4uo...@4ax.com...
M.M.
a month trial of a pair of Siemens Signia's. I like the Cantas much better.
Barring any major problems showing up in the next couple weeks, I'll
probably keep them. I've been wearing analog ITE's for the past 10 yrs or
so. The Cantas sound much better to me than the Signias...more natural
(whatever that is). Then again, this could be the programming. I've had
almost zero problems with feedback, only when trying to use close-fitting
headphones. The batteries (Ray-O-Vac 13) are the originals, two weeks old
tomorrow. The Cantas worked pretty well from the first fitting. I had a
couple minor tweaks a week ago and will probably need a couple more at my
next visit next week to fine-tune the noise reduction and bump the master
gain up a notch or two (I find myself bumping the volume up a couple
notches now). My audiologist is very helpful and willing to make
programming changes. She has also set up a session with the Resound factory
rep in a few weeks just to double check everything. So far, so good.
The only negatives so far iare that the BTE's are a bit harder to use with
the telephone and with headphones. And that was the case with the Siemens
also (altho the Cantas seem to work better with headphones). It's more a
matter of BTE vs ITE, I think.
Anyway, just another data point...
Mark
jay1000
unplugged whistling Power Resound aids from my grandsons molds and plugged
in Canta 7 aids. Feedback totally disappeared. Even more dramatic was the
Power Resounds were set up with sub-optimum high frequency gain to minimize
feedback. The Canta 7 used full optimum high frequency gain.
As a guess, you have a severe mold problem or the aid is not set up
correctly or the aid is "busted".
FYI, since my grandson was to get the first Canta dispensed by his
audiology group, they had the factory rep come in for an in-service and then
set-up the aids on my grandson.
The Canta really works well and even the school audiologist is impressed.
Improvement on the Hearing in Noise Test was dramatic. In practical terms
we can carry on a conversation with me in the drivers seat and my grandson
in the back seat. That is usually tough for a child who is profound in both
ears.
Good luck in getting it to work.
Jay
"Bruce Maguire" <bruce...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:vgbm2u8ueggqac4uo...@4ax.com...
HEARA1
>a month trial of a pair of Siemens Signia's. I like the Cantas much better.
I sure do agree, but the Signias are MUCH cheaper.
>The batteries (Ray-O-Vac 13) are the originals, two weeks old
>tomorrow.
I like Starkey(improved upon Ray-O-Vacs')
batteries best & have tried them all.
They really do work better & longer consistently.
HEARA1
HEARA1
>correctly or the aid is "busted".
Agree>
In practical terms
>we can carry on a conversation with me in the drivers seat and my grandson
>in the back seat. That is usually tough for a child who is profound in both
>ears.
That is usually IMPOSSABLE with profound losses, & you would still have to
prove it to me!
I am very happy for your grandsons success.
M.M.
>
> I sure do agree, but the Signias are MUCH cheaper.
Well, my audiologist prices the Signias and the Canta 7's the same (about
$2200 each for BTE's). So, either I'm getting a deal on the Cantas or the
Signias are way over-priced...
(Frankly, I think they're ALL way overpriced. Over $2K for probably less
than $100 of materials is a bit steep even considering R&D costs which
can't be all that high...DSP is not rocket science.)
BTW & FWIW, I decided to keep the Cantas...
Mark
jay1000
aids. Both are necessary! Rules-of-thumb that appear to limit
audiological or educational success of a profound child do NOT address
individual differences. My grandson is an audiological overachiever and
does much better than predicted in a noisy environment. Not all profound
children will do as well but some will do even better.
"HEARA1" <hea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020106082739...@mb-cf.aol.com...
The Roving Reporter
very strange color crayon and scribbled:
>(Frankly, I think they're ALL way overpriced. Over $2K for probably less
>than $100 of materials is a bit steep even considering R&D costs which
>can't be all that high...DSP is not rocket science.)
Assembly costs have to be added in too, those things are hand
assembled by humans. I imagine they must be in clean rooms and using
magnifiers to see what they're doing. (Or microscopes.) It's about
like building the Space Shuttle in terms of complexity and skill
level, only much, much smaller. I've seen the type of resistors and
capacitors that would be used in such items, they have almost
hair-thin leads.
--
Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi
tls...@concentric.net / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell
HEARA1
>Signias are way over-priced...
>
>(Frankly, I think they're ALL way overpriced. Over $2K for probably less
>than $100 of materials is a bit steep even considering R&D costs which
>can't be all that high...DSP is not rocket science.)
Mark, The price vs cost issue is a no win situation. The cost of raw materials
in the best hearing instruments is LESS THAN A DOLLAR.
DSP technology really is a spin-off benefit from American ROCKET SCIENCE.
If there is so much profit in hearing aids why have the tiny companies like
AT&T, 3M,B&L left the industry & RCA(Songbird),J&J hearing aid divisions & the
like going broke?
Hearing Aid wholesale prices have gone way up since 11/1/01 & the warrantees
are more limited.
Why??
HEARA1