Youth With A Mission (YWAM)?
rosaphil
if so, please email me.
thanks.
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Jan Groenveld
> anyone here had any interaction with them? for good or for ill?
>
> if so, please email me.
>
> thanks.
Have a look on our web page under Spiritual Abuse in the Church
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Anton Hein
<rug...@interport.net>, who - on Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:51:06 -0400 - wrote:
>anyone here had any interaction with them? for good or for ill?
Both. See:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/y00.html#ywam
Incidentally, an ywam newsgroup was recently started:
news:alt.religion.christian.ywam
Anton
--
Apologetics Index: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/
Apologetics and Countercult Resources on Cults, Sects,
and Alternative Religious Movements.
Tonijn Scheepman
My girlfriend's cousin is doing some work with YWAM (actually JUCUM -
Juventud Con Una Mision - in Spanish) in Latin America, and appears to
have been signed up for a second year. He's not allowed to send or receive
letters, but can send email once a week (no details on whether he can
receive it). He's 20 years old, thousands of miles from home, and his
family is quite worried about him (especially as they have been told by
YWAM that he's staying another year and they haven't heard from him
directly).
Is YWAM considered a cult? Is it normal not to be able to send/receive
mail? They claim to be interdenominational - is this true? What are their
beliefs? There seem to be nothing like the number of complaints against
them as against other such organisations - is this because they're okay?
Tonijn
rosaphil wrote:
> anyone here had any interaction with them? for good or for ill?
>
> if so, please email me.
>
> thanks.
>
Anton Hein
<ton...@a2000.nl>, who - on Sun, 06 Jun 1999 17:23:35 +0200 - wrote:
>My girlfriend's cousin is doing some work with YWAM (actually JUCUM -
>Juventud Con Una Mision - in Spanish) in Latin America, and appears to
>have been signed up for a second year. He's not allowed to send or receive
>letters, but can send email once a week (no details on whether he can
>receive it).
See:
YWAM
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/y00.html#ywam
YWAM bases have a great measure of independence. That is one reason
you'll find enormous differences between various bases. This is true not
just from country to country, but even within small countries like
Holland. For example, rules and attitudes at the Amsterdam base are far
more relaxed than they are at Heidebeek - 2 hours to the east... I have
heard that bases in, for example, Brazil, are far more strictly organized
than those elsewhere.
At the Amsterdam base, everyone has free access to email and mail (sending
and receiving).
Some YWAM leaders tend to be highly controlling, which is one result of
spiritual pride. I know of situations in which such control extended to
interference with relationships (though usually between two YWAMers, and
not between a YWAMer and his family). Sometimes the reasons given sound,
on the surface, "spiritual." For example, people are told that since God
has guided them to work in such-and-such country, they will not want to be
sidetracked by being homesick, or by starting a romantic relationship.
Such manipulation should not be tolerated.
Within YWAM, contact with home (family, friends, church, etc.) is usually
encouraged within YWAM. For one thing, most staff members and workers
must pay their own way. Rates can be very steep, and thus financial
support from home is very much needed.
That said, some YWAM ministries operate in sensitive areas (for example:
in Mid-east countries where Christian evangelism is not welcome). In
those cases, there may be certain restrictions on mail. In that case,
snail mail is often taken care of by couriers.
That said, not being able to send or receive letters does not sound right
at all.
>He's 20 years old, thousands of miles from home, and his
>family is quite worried about him (especially as they have been told by
>YWAM that he's staying another year and they haven't heard from him
>directly).
This is par-for-the-course for YWAM. Participants are encouraged to work
somewhere far away from home. Here's what I have posted at my site:
I think it prudent to caution those interested in joining YWAM. While
most people have good experiences with the short-term ministry
opportunities, one should realize that joining the organization on a
more permanent basis could mean you open yourself up to spiritual
abuse. (i.e. with long-term involvement, the organization becomes your
"home," your "family," and your sole base of reference. Far from your
own country - as is often the case in YWAM - in a lifestyle far
different from what you are used to at home, it is so much easier to
give in to spiritual pressure from leaders and peers.) This does not
mean such things are going on in all YWAM bases. The Amsterdam YWAM
base, for example, is a wonderful place of ministry.
>Is YWAM considered a cult? Is it normal not to be able to send/receive
>mail? They claim to be interdenominational - is this true? What are their
>beliefs?
YWAM is interdenominational, and its beliefs generally within the bounds
of orthodoxy Christianity. However, in the past, as today, the
organization has had problems with discernment. For example, for a long
time, the
Moral Government of God
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m05.html
heresy was taught within the movement. While investigating this, I was
personally lied to by one of YWAM's top leaders at the time. This was not
an isolated instance, either.
Currently, at the YWAM head quarters in Hawaii, many leaders are involved
in
Momentus
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m00.html#momentus
a controversial encounter/awareness training group.
At the Amsterdam base, a number of staff members are involved in churches
which support and participate in the
Toronto Blessing Movement
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/t00.html#tbm
>There seem to be nothing like the number of complaints against
>them as against other such organisations - is this because they're okay?
There are complaints. See, for example,
YWAM Warning
http://members.cnx.net/arnt/
That you do not hear of more complaints is due in part to the nature of
YWAM. Much tends to be "spiritualized" either implicitly or explicitly.
Bad experiences are easily dismissed as being the fault of the individual.
I have seen this in action myself...
If you can find Harold Bussell's our-of-print book, "Unholy Devotion: Why
Cults Lure Christians," get it. He wrote it based on his own experiences
within YWAM. Amazon.com will query its sources for used books:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310372518/christianministr
Greetings from a fellow Hollander :)
Anton
--
Apologetics Index: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/
Apologetics and Countercult Information about Cults, Sects,
and Alternative Religious Movements - for Research and Ministry.
Paul Hoyle
I'm surprised by your comments. I've know YWAM folks for many years. I have
old friends with them, and I have always understood them to be just another
missionary group that believes the Bible in an orthodox Evangelical way.
I'm sure some leaders go overboard from time to time - I've met those in
many groups.
But I don't think they can be classed as a cult; I myself have been in 2
cults; and wouldn't class YWAM as such.
Kind Regards
Paul
Anton Hein <ah...@xs2all.nl> wrote in message
news:375ac9d9...@news.xs4all.nl...
Anton Hein
<nos...@nospam.com>, who - on Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:35:00 +0100 - wrote:
>I'm surprised by your comments. I've know YWAM folks for many years. I have
>old friends with them, and I have always understood them to be just another
>missionary group that believes the Bible in an orthodox Evangelical way.
Well, as I mentioned,
YWAM is interdenominational, and its beliefs generally within the
bounds of orthodoxy Christianity.
However, that doesn't mean it is a movement free of problems.
Some personal background: I have known YWAM since somewhere in the
neighborhood of 1977, have participated in several of their programs, have
worked at two YWAM bases, know many YWAMers, married a long-time YWAMer,
have discussed YWAM with countless current and former YWAMers (long term
and short term), have interviewed several authors of critical books and
articles on YWAM, and have also had many discussions with leaders and
ex-leaders who had significant misgivings about what they saw going on
within some of the bases.
The spiritual abuse my (now ex-) wife and I experienced in YWAM at the
hands of Floyd McClung - at the time one of their most respected "world"
leaders - is considered by many who know the circumstances to be one of
the primary reasons, if not *the* prime reason, my marriage failed.
(Floyd was into heavy "shepherding," and actually told us that people
should obey him even if they know him to be wrong, "because God honors
obedience, but punishes rebellion." He relented his quest for control over
us only because he realized I have excellent contacts within the Dutch
Christian community. He briefly attempted to intimidate me into remaining
silent about certain things, but soon learned that only backfired).
Note what Harold Bussel writes in "Unholy Devotion":
While living in Europe, my wife and I were involved with an Evangelical
youth mission based in Switzerland. We were with the group only six
weeks, but it was almost seven years before I had overcome the
psycological damage cause by their cult-like control and
spiritualization.
(...)
Questioning a leader was considered an act of rebellion against God and
His chain of command.
[...more...]
Shortly after moving to the States, I was interviewed regarding my
experiences in YWAM by a researcher associated with the Christian Research
Institute. As I already knew, he confirmed that my story was far from
unique, as - at the time - similar complaints (and worse) had been
received from all around the world. CRI actually published a "Fact Sheet"
on YWAM, warning that though they considered it a Christian organization,
YWAM had certain cultic tendencies.
That said, I do not consider YWAM a cult, but to this day, do agree that
this organization has cultic tendencies.
>I'm sure some leaders go overboard from time to time - I've met those in
>many groups.
Yes, leaders go overboard within many groups. However, that is no excuse.
Unfortunately, some of YWAM's methodology invites certain types of abuse -
some of it subtle, and some of it rather blatant. Too, as I mentioned, on
certain bases heretical and aberrant teachings have gained a foothold -
today, as in the past.
Nevertheless, if you re-read my message and check the Apologetics Index
entry on YWAM
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/y00.html#ywam
you'll note that I mention there are enormous differences between the
various bases. Many, if not all, are OK. This accounts for the high
satisfaction rate, so to speak.
>But I don't think they can be classed as a cult; I myself have been in 2
>cults; and wouldn't class YWAM as such.
I wouldn't either. As you no doubt know, YWAM does lots of good work
around the globe, operating from nearly 500 bases. This includes
operating hospital ships, organizing mercy ministries, constructing
schools, transcribing languages, etcetera.
However, since there can be such big differences in spiritual maturity,
practice and theology from base to base, I believe only mature Christian
who are well-grounded in the Word of God should consider participation.
They should at all times have full permission to stay in touch with family
and friends.
Blessings,
Paul Hoyle
and respect you for it.
Kind regards
Paul Hoyle
______________________________________________
Anton Hein <ah...@xs2all.nl> wrote in message
news:37613c35...@news.xs4all.nl...
> Anton Hein's (ah...@xs2all.nl 2=4 to mail) reply to "Paul Hoyle"
> <nos...@nospam.com>, who - on Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:35:00 +0100 - wrote:
>
> >I'm surprised by your comments. I've know YWAM folks for many years. I
have
> >old friends with them, and I have always understood them to be just
another
> >missionary group that believes the Bible in an orthodox Evangelical way.
>
> Well, as I mentioned,
>
> YWAM is interdenominational, and its beliefs generally within the
> bounds of orthodoxy Christianity.
>
> >I'm sure some leaders go overboard from time to time - I've met those in
> >many groups.
>
> Yes, leaders go overboard within many groups. However, that is no excuse.
> Unfortunately, some of YWAM's methodology invites certain types of abuse -
> some of it subtle, and some of it rather blatant. Too, as I mentioned, on
> certain bases heretical and aberrant teachings have gained a foothold -
> today, as in the past.
>
> Nevertheless, if you re-read my message and check the Apologetics Index
> entry on YWAM
>
> http://www.apologeticsindex.org/y00.html#ywam
>
> you'll note that I mention there are enormous differences between the
> various bases. Many, if not all, are OK. This accounts for the high
> satisfaction rate, so to speak.
>
> >But I don't think they can be classed as a cult; I myself have been in 2
> >cults; and wouldn't class YWAM as such.
>
> I wouldn't either. As you no doubt know, YWAM does lots of good work
> around the globe, operating from nearly 500 bases. This includes
> operating hospital ships, organizing mercy ministries, constructing
> schools, transcribing languages, etcetera.
>
> However, since there can be such big differences in spiritual maturity,
> practice and theology from base to base, I believe only mature Christian
> who are well-grounded in the Word of God should consider participation.
> They should at all times have full permission to stay in touch with family
> and friends.
>
> Blessings,
>
richard and donna
owned a few years back?
Richard.
JT III
Anastasis
Caribbean Mercy
Island Mercy
Ingrid
richard and donna wrote in message <7jtt4p$bbd$1...@news2.ee.net>...
JT III
(Latest report, June 1999)
JT III wrote in message ...
joyfi...@gmail.com
I personally had a horrible abusive experience with them, and I found out that many others have had bad experiences also.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/666582/posts?page=8
https://chasingtruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/is-ywam-a-cult/
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/ywam.htm
http://www.letusreason.org/ecumen30.htm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0ahUKEwj08Zi81rDQAhWhh1QKHcBAACwQFghaMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Fculteducation.com%2Fgroup%2F1245-youth-with-a-mission%2F22533-ywam-visitor-comments.html&usg=AFQjCNFrph0M0OE8YLMydRHf_UPn1kDefg&sig2=Rm6uk0K23Tt6A99IhN4FqA
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/ywamstory.html
http://isthisjoy.tumblr.com/post/90046702308/cultshit
http://sfist.com/2007/08/22/post_1.php
http://www.icsahome.com/articles/my-experience-in-ywam-jacobson
http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/youthwithamission.html
http://psuedocults.blogspot.com/2007/11/ywam-manipulation-of-young-people.html
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/09/is-spooky-cult-behind-path-to-911.html
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.support.ex-cult/3Ex5eYXuz6Y
joyfi...@gmail.com
Note: experiences do vary and the bases are in many ways largely autonomous. So there are people who have had good experiences too. I want to emphasize that there are many sincere believers, however, the problems above are real and documented. The young people have to raise money and are isolated. If you have a bad leader or experience it can be horribly traumatic and isolating. I would recommend researching a better organization with a better reputation, and please be aware that abuse or trauma DOES happen in churches and among missionaries.