second posting
Golden...@my-dejanews.com
I was hoping someone would respond to my first message and welcome me into
the newsgroup. So far this hasn't happened. Maybe my first message
indicated I don't really need much support. I guess that's true, SY is
history for me. But I would like to connect with other people who have left
SY. I'd like to know how to deal with people I like who are still in SY. Do
you just avoid the topic? Do you let it come up and let them know where you
stand? Do you just let go of them? How have some of you handled this? This
comes up from time to time for me. I have one other question that always
nagged at me: who is getting paid off in the local government to look the
other way when SYDA shoves too many people into those old buildings. I'm
sure that must violate occupancy and fire safety laws and regulations. I
know it's not a high-falutin' philosophical question, but it would be pretty
cool to turn some journalist onto it and see if the law comes down on SYDA.
THat would put a crunch in the cash flow if they couldn't pack people in.
Hope y'all are doing well. Golden eagle.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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ByeSY
Golden Eagle wrote:
>I was hoping someone would respond to my first message and welcome me into
>the newsgroup. So far this hasn't happened
Actually, Golden Eagle, there was a whole threadful of responses to you. I'm
not sure why they're not showin g up for you, but they are right there under
the "first time posting" thread. Hope you find them and again, welcome.
sres...@slip.net
Golden...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> But I would like to connect with other people who have left
> SY. I'd like to know how to deal with people I like who are still in SY. Do
> you just avoid the topic? Do you let it come up and let them know where you
> stand? Do you just let go of them? How have some of you handled this?
Off-hand, I can think of a couple of long-time friends who still consider
themselves Siddha Yogis who I've had very friendly communication with.
They've even seen my web site, where I make my own opinions very explicit;
their reaction was basically that being a decent person is a more important
matter than one's view toward the guru or SYDA. (As a Libertarian, I meet all
sorts of liberals & conservatives who have very different political views
than I, but we can still be friends based on broad human values & experiences
we share. Similar situation.)
I can also think of a couple folks who were wonderful friends when we shared
the same opinions about SY, but then stopped returning my calls. This is very
sad, but I never cut them off; it was the other way around.
When I talk to someone in SY, I try not to make "you're wrong" attacks on
them. On the other hand, I try to answer direct questions directly. Even in
my waning ashram days, I recall someone saying to me, "It's amazing how hard
Gurumayi works giving darshan every day." I didn't respond one way or the
other. So he eventually asked, "Don't *you* think it's amazing?" So I said,
"Maybe it's work to sit in that chair for an hour or 2, but the ashram is
filled with people who do jobs that look a lot harder to me." I feel better
just stating my own opinion rather than attacking the other person, though
sometimes the other person will be equally offended in either case. What can
you do?
Also, I sometimes try to just ask a simple question. "What exactly is it that
you've gotten from all your years fo>
<input type=
JyotiK2052
Dear Golden eagle,
My goodness, maybe your 'reader' doesn't pick up on persons who post through
AOL, but I certainly DID welcome you to the group! I'll try to go back and
find the post in which that was done. Anyway...here it is again...WELCOME!!!
As far as how to deal with people I like who are still in sy: I just connect
with them in other areas where we have things in common. IF they bring up sy, I
listen to them, but do not comment. If they ask me why I'm no longer
affiliated with sy, I tell them. So far, my REAL friends who are still in sy
have remained my friends, although we don't see each other as often. Those who
weren't, fade away.
I don't know the answer for the 'old building' question. Very interesting,
though.
Sure hope you do see THIS post!
Respectfully - Jyoti
Kateshakes
Golden,
Welcome, welcome, welcome! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. And
while I'm here (sorry it's been a while, my new job is going GREAT, but keeps
me very busy) welcome to Billy and your humorous perspective! And I must agree
with all who are enjoying the KK/Satdesh point/counterpoint, for I am too.
All the best,
Kate
Violet1884
Dear Golden -
I too posted a welcome to the ng to you. I hope you find all those posts cos
several people posted and welcomed you.
You ask about friends who are still in SY. I am one who lost all my friends
who remained in SY. They left me - not the other way around. Some told me
to my face that they didn't want to be my friend any more because the had heard
that I was "negative" about SY. Others just stopped communicating with me. I
have even been directly snubbed in public places when I have "run into" old SY
friends. Several friends who still live in the ashram on staff have stopped
communicating with me - presumably I am considered "bad company". .
On the other hand, while it is very very sad to me to have lost friends who I
thought were strong and long term friends, I also find there is little to talk
with those people about any more anyway. Now that I am free the mind control
is SO obvious in those who are still involved that a meaning ful conversation
or relationship seems unlikely. I am not willing to pretend that I think being
involved in SY is anything else but unethical and this means that those still
in there are not really interested in talking with me.
So, reluctantly, I have put all my energy into making a new life and new and
cleaner relationships. It has been hard and lonely at times but I am finding
it is starting to pay off now.
Welcome again!!
Violet
PattyV1953
In article <6lcenq$bm4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Golden...@my-dejanews.com
writes:
>I was hoping someone would respond to my first message and welcome me into
>the newsgroup. So far this hasn't happened. Maybe my first message
>indicated I don't really need much support. I guess that's true, SY is
>history for me. But I would like to connect with other people who have left
>SY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I e-mailed GE a message explaining that sometimes posts are slow to accrue to
dejanews. I've had much better luck posting and receiving posts directly
through my AOL newsgroup FlashSession downloads, within minutes of their
posting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I'd like to know how to deal with people I like who are still in SY. Do
>you just avoid the topic? Do you let it come up and let them know where you
>stand? Do you just let go of them? How have some of you handled this?
This
>comes up from time to time for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The ways to deal with friends and family range from complete and polite
avoidance of the subject, to outbreak of hostilities leading to the end of the
relationship, and everything in between. It depends on the tolerance of the
ex-devotee for SYDA-speak *and* the tolerance of the devotee for the cognitive
dissonance which arises within when one honestly contemplates the abuses (of
others and of power) that are rampant in SY.
I definitely let devotees with whom I have some friendly contact know where I
stand, but I don't feel I have to be aggressive or confrontational about it.
(However, I understand that *any* presentation of this information *feels"
hostile to the average devotee.) My discussion on the subject tends to be a
presentation of the facts as I have come to know them, and to the extent that
the devotee will listen. I let them know how that information changed my
understanding of and involvement in SY. If the person comes back at me with
propaganda or mind-control scripting, I point that out to them in a very
matter-of-fact way.
Once, I was discussing with one friend the fact that swamis had acknowledged
Baba's "inscrutable" sexual dalliances. I asked the woman how she would feel
if it were *her* daughter (then about 14) who had been "tapped by the guru."
Would she remain "equinanimous"? Would she and her husband feel that her
daughter and her whole family had been "blessed"? Would she agree that this
was just a "cleansing of samskaras"? Could she just "witness" her emotional
and intellectual and instinctively protective reactions and seek the "lesson"
in all of it? She just kind of screwed up her face in a pained expression. Of
course, she could not and would not, but she couldn't quite bring herself to
agree with me on this point.
Another devotee has taken that familiar position, "It's just not my experience.
Since I have experienced only good things in connection with SY, the "rumors"
are irrelevant -- even if they are true." There's just no response to such
heartless disregard for the wellbeing of others except, "Well, I can't do
that."
I have chosen to discontinue any interaction with the former Buffalo center
leaders with whom I worked very closely during my last five years in SY. They
are very oldtimers, one of whom would not even utter a syllable in discussion
of these things, and the other tended to follow that lead. They've been around
SY and have lived in the ashram at times since the 1970s and are quite familiar
with all the issues. Their position, by staying in SY, is clear: "Let the
dogs bark," as Baba had once said in a special "message." I have no need to
convince them or convert them. I presume, as I did when I was a devotee, that
the opinions I hold about SY and the gurus to whom they have devoted their
lives is an "insult" and that it makes me "bad company" in their eyes. I
understand why (as devotees) they would believe that, and I don't need to
"make" them change their minds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>I have one other question that always
>nagged at me: who is getting paid off in the local government to look the
>other way when SYDA shoves too many people into those old buildings. I'm
>sure that must violate occupancy and fire safety laws and regulations.
I
>know it's not a high-falutin' philosophical question, but it would be pretty
>cool to turn some journalist onto it and see if the law comes down on SYDA.
>THat would put a crunch in the cash flow if they couldn't pack people in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah. Ever try to get out of Muktananda Mandir at a break during and
Intensive? People trample each other just to get to the bathrooms, or to see
Gurumayi walk by. Waiting a minimum of 15 minutes to allow the clot at the
exits to clear, if you can, is advisable.
I've stayed in dorm rooms in Sadhana Kutir during "high holy days" when there
were eight people in bunks booby-trapped with splinters and two more people on
mats taking up most of the space down the center of the room, a scene repeated
up and down those long hallways, with only three or four exits (one or two to
an inside stairwell) to a floor. I was one of the people on the floor at
times, surrounded by suitcases and piles of bookstore booty. Can you imagine
if there were a fire? The mildew and mold and hair and scum in some of the
bathrooms: enough to gag a maggot. I was happy to stay in Vijayanti, the
large women's dorm, just to avoid all that.
Sullivan County, NY, is the poorest county in the state. I have to believe
that, in order to allow the SYDA Foundation all its property tax exemptions and
ignore the obvious health and fire code violations all over the place,
*someone* in local government must be on the take, and/or a devotee. OOH,
that's pure speculation on my part. OTOH, that *is* the way these things are
done IRL.
Pat
Shawdan
In article <199806071310...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
patty...@aol.com (PattyV1953) writes:
>Sullivan County, NY, is the poorest county in the state. I have to believe
>that, in order to allow the SYDA Foundation all its property tax exemptions
>and
>ignore the obvious health and fire code violations all over the place,
>*someone* in local government must be on the take, and/or a devotee. OOH,
>that's pure speculation on my part. OTOH, that *is* the way these things are
>done IRL.
>
>Pat
There's no doubt that SY has been working hard for years to develop "friends"
in government in Sullivan Co. For example, Gurumayi a few years back
instructed every ashram resident to register to vote, and then instructed them
who to vote for. This practice continues, I believe, and ashramites are
routinely rounded up to vote for the politicians that will most favor SY's
presence in Sullivan Co.
Anyone who has tried to tangle with SY in the local legal system up there has
learned that SY has friends in the local government and judicial system.
I agree, the violation of safety laws and regulations is appalling.
***************
Sha...@aol.com (Daniel Shaw)
http://members.aol.com/shawdan/page1.htm
"It has been my experience that folks with no vices have few virtues." --
Abraham Lincoln
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." -- Abraham Lincoln
ChelseaBW
>Anyone who has tried to tangle with SY in the local legal system up there has
>learned that SY has friends in the local government and judicial system.
>
>I agree, the violation of safety laws and regulations is appalling.
>***************
Yes, I remember the summer when gm was in ganeshpuri, and the ashram wined and
dined the local police with a big hoopla in the atma nidhi amrit, giving them
huge donations in the amount of thousands - I think 20,000. Then they were
given a tour and treated REALLY special. It was announced that by supporting
them, the ashram got the protection it needed. But I think it's for more than
protection, but control.
megha...@hotmail.com
Hi Golden,
Welcome again!
There were a few messages posted welcoming you, including one from me, after
your first post. They may have been mixed up in other threads, which could be
why you didn't see them...
More later, take care,
Megha