the guru
Stuart Resnick
There's been some discussion here about how much Siddha Yoga centers on
the person of the guru. It brought a couple things to mind.
When Gurumayi came to Oakland a few years back, the posters that went up
on campus were a big photo of here with the words, "One look. One touch.
One word. Can transform your life." Aside from the address, time, &
phone number, that was *it*!
Also: before the Nityananda incident, I had no opinion of Gurumayi one
way or the other. So when I was looking for a place to meditate for a
few months, I called the South Fallsburg ashram. Gurumayi wasn't in
residence at the time, & I thought the ashram would be a peaceful place
for a retreat.
So I called up the ashram manager (David Kempton at the time) & asked
told him that I wanted to stay there for a month, that I could pay rent
& follow the rules, etc. He asked about whether I had been to see
Gurumayi when she had been in my area. I told him that I was just
looking for a place to meditate. He replied that if I didn't want to be
a devotee of Gurumayi, then I shouldn't come to the ashram, because the
guru is what Siddha Yoga is all about.
Stuart
sres...@slip.net
http://www.slip.net/~sresnick/mypage.shtml
Anonymous 2
On Sun, 09 Nov 1997 19:27:55 -0800, Stuart Resnick <sres...@slip.net>
wrote:
Assuming that everything took place exactly as you related above, then
the ashram manager was a fool, full of @#$%^, and incorrect as well.
Ram Butler, the author of the SY correspondence course, did not want a
guru when he first came to see Baba. He just wanted to "get Shaktipat
and leave".
Most people don't, because the ego thinks that it can become
enlightened all by itself, without any help from the Self or anyone
else.
As a practical matter, part of spiritual practice involves ignoring
everything you are told that is not official teaching, ie spoken or
written directly by the teacher.
Any staff people, managers, Presidents, etc. are to be ignored, except
as far as it is necessary to get along by following local customs, for
example, if a staff person says leave your shoes outside like everyone
else, it is best to do so.
However, if a staff person from ANY spiritual organization or religion
says "the best thing for your spiritual development is to....", then
it is time to put your fingers in your ears!
In the book "Miracle of Love" by Ram Dass, there are some good
examples of this principle at work.
Unlike most people, I've participated for a significant length of time
in a number of spiritual groups. My observation has been that the
understanding of spiritual principles by staff people is significantly
lower than that of the average non-staff participant.
I recently discovered that Srila Prabhupada, the founder of ISKCON,
once made an interesting statement which squares precisely
with my experience of high level staff leaders:
"I have created these big positions for big egos."
One of his followers, Sulocana Dasa, comments on this quote:
"We were badly treated on numerous occasions by some 'leaders',
but we never held it against Prabhupada because we had read
the entire Caitanya-caritamrta thoroughly. We therefore always
understood that the 'leaders' were simply being engaged
according to their material propensities in a way that would
satisfy their egos and keep them out of trouble."
Again, this squares entirely with my direct experience with high level
leaders of spiritual groups.
These high level leaders are the first to say "The Guru knows and
approves of what I am doing". However, there is clear evidence in a
variety of groups (for example, in the posthumously published letters
of Srila Prabhupada) that high level leaders lie about this
continually, sometimes even to themselves, eg "the sun just came out
from behind a cloud, therefore the guru approves of my idea".
Like you, I once went to visit "The Avadhut" in the Bay Area, and my
reaction was exactly the same as yours. I've also found a few other
followers of Ramana Maharshi to be quite similar. However, this would
*not* cause me to doubt either Ramana Maharshi or his teachings.
Baba himself often said that the people who were around him (ie
organization leaders) were not those who were closest to his heart.
Andy Comanda
gurumayi has said on more than one occasion that anything said to you at
the ashram or center or through any extension of the guru is the guru or
shakti speaking!!!
blackscorpio
Stuart's story is good because it highlights the main point even if the
rules are not down in writing they are still there.
Sha...@aol.com
In article <346753...@worldnet.att.net>,
Andy Comanda <blue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> Anonymous 2 wrote:
> >
>
> > Assuming that everything took place exactly as you related above, then
> > the ashram manager was a fool, full of @#$%^, and incorrect as well.
> >
> > Unlike most people, I've participated for a significant length of time
> > in a number of spiritual groups. My observation has been that the
> > understanding of spiritual principles by staff people is significantly
> > lower than that of the average non-staff participant.
> >
> > I recently discovered that Srila Prabhupada, the founder of ISKCON,
> > once made an interesting statement which squares precisely
> > with my experience of high level staff leaders:
> >
AS the assistant to head of Programming in SYDA for many years, and later
as the head of Programming myself, I can assure you that Gurumayi is the
one who trained her managers, like David Kempton in this case, to screen
out people who want to stay in the So.Falls. ashram by letting them know
that the Ashram IS Gurumayi, and that coming to devote oneself to her is
the only valid reason for coming. Gurumayi instructs her staff on how to
breathe, walk, smile, dress, and on what to say, do and think; and
especially on how to talk to the public.
The inside view of SYDA, where Guruamyi runs the show and oversees every
detail, is unknown to 98% of devotees. And the staff is well trained to
take the heat for Gurumayi if anyone complains about her policies. We
were severely reprimanded if we ever let someone whom she was busting
know that she was behind it.
Nowadays, you get a computer check at the gates making sure you're a real
devotee of Guruamyi, not just a sightseer.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Anonymous 2
On Tue, 11 Nov 1997 04:31:17 -0600, Sha...@aol.com wrote:
>In article <346753...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Andy Comanda <blue...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Anonymous 2 wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > Assuming that everything took place exactly as you related above, then
>> > the ashram manager was a fool, full of @#$%^, and incorrect as well.
>
>> >
>> > Unlike most people, I've participated for a significant length of time
>> > in a number of spiritual groups. My observation has been that the
>> > understanding of spiritual principles by staff people is significantly
>> > lower than that of the average non-staff participant.
>> >
>> > I recently discovered that Srila Prabhupada, the founder of ISKCON,
>> > once made an interesting statement which squares precisely
>> > with my experience of high level staff leaders:
>> >
>
>AS the assistant to head of Programming in SYDA for many years, and later
>as the head of Programming myself, I can assure you that Gurumayi is the
>one who trained her managers, like David Kempton in this case, to screen
>out people who want to stay in the So.Falls. ashram by letting them know
>that the Ashram IS Gurumayi, and that coming to devote oneself to her is
>the only valid reason for coming. Gurumayi instructs her staff on how to
>breathe, walk, smile, dress, and on what to say, do and think; and
>especially on how to talk to the public.
What does "I can assure you" mean?
Her interaction with programming is *not* the question here.
Do you know for a *fact* that she specifically told the S.F. ashram
manager to tell someone who wanted to come to meditate that they were
unwelcome if they were not currently interested in being a devotee?
By the way, I should give the manager some slack - we really don't
know all the details about this event - perhaps this was a
particularly busy period with accommodations being scarce.
And I begin to wonder why a non-devotee trying to register for
accommodations would be talking to the ashram manager at all (rather
than the registration desk staff)?
Andy Comanda
Anonymous 2:
Is posting here your seva?
sres...@slip.net
[regarding my earlier posting telling how, years ago, I asked to stay at
the South Fallsburg ashram for a month to meditate, & was told that I
shouldn't do so if I wasn't a devotee of Gurumayi.]
another...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous 2) wrote:
> By the way, I should give the manager some slack - we really don't
> know all the details about this event - perhaps this was a
> particularly busy period with accommodations being scarce.
> And I begin to wonder why a non-devotee trying to register for
> accommodations would be talking to the ashram manager at all (rather
> than the registration desk staff)?
Jeez, are you just going to assume that *everyone* is lying? As I related
in the original post, I was trying to stay at the ashram when Gurumayi
was *not* there. I assume that since few people stayed at the ashram
during the winter while the guru was away, there wasn't a "registration
desk staff." There was someone who answered the phone, but didn't know
what to reply; so I was eventually referred to the ashram manager, who
rejected my request.
I repeat the story because it was a surprise to me at the time. After
hearing so often that Siddha Yoga was about "meditating on your Self," I
expected the manager to at least consider letting me stay at the ashram
to do just that. David, by the way, was polite, even kinda apologetic, in
telling me that I couldn't stay at the ashram to meditate. I'm not trying
to trash him personally. But for what it's worth, he didn't hesitate to
tell me that Gurumayi is what Siddha Yoga's all about. (He most
definitely did *not* cite any practical difficulties in rejecting me;
rather, he said it was because I wasn't Gurumayi's devotee.)
Stuart
sres...@slip.net
http://www.slip.net/~sresnick/mypage.shtml