Shiva's light.
SivaShakta
I have found a site that discusses many things posted here. It makes clear who
is telling the truth and who is obscuring it. The site is called "Kashmir
Shaivism in Siddha Yoga." You can visit it yourself at:
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/pub/kssyd.htm
It is about SYDA yoga but was not produced by SYDA yoga.
It has been argued here by the SYDA critics that SYDA Yoga is not a religion,
is not Hindusim, and has no historic claims. And those that choose to differ
and explained their differences in opinion in well thought out statements and
illustrations of why it is so was answered by a barrage of name calling abuses
by the SYDA critics. It brought to mind the old saying of why one should not
cast pearls before swine. In any case this site definitely states Siddha Yoga
as a religious movement and mainly follows the historic religion Kashmir
Shaivism. I've given some abstracts of the site to illustrate my points. But
there is much more to be seen at the site including interesting points of
Kashmir Shaivism.
About SYDA being a religion:
"Siddha Yoga is the name of a contemporary religious movement which has its
primary seat of power in Ganeshpuri, outside Bombay, India; and a major, though
secondary, international center in South Fallsburg, New York."
"The traditional philosophy with which Siddha Yoga is most distinctively
identified is Kashmir Shaivism. "
"Kashmir Saivism is a network of sectarian religious groups in Kashmir, a
network of esoteric tantric practices, a network of theories concerning
language and aesthetics, a network of philosophies for attaining
discrimination, and a plurality of "paths" for attaining moksa. "
This makes is clear that the SYDA path IS religious, has historic roots, and is
following a clearly traditional Hindu path.
"The basis of the philosophy of Kashmir Shaivism, Siddha Yoga assumes, is found
in the teachings of the Shivasutras, which are understood to be scriptures
revealed by the highest, ultimate reality."
I remember seeing many times how some have tried to criticize SYDA and gave the
reasons SYDA deserved such abuse by disagreeing with SYDA's use of the most
basic concepts of Kashmir Shaivism. And when it was pointed out how all the
religious concepts the SYDA critics were finding fault with are all from the
single religion of Kashmir Shaivism, and all the named concepts could be found
in the Shivasutras, that brought on such a barrage of foul mouth name calling
and blatant lies that one can't help but wonder what is the matter with these
people? That was the point when I stop taking these people serious and came to
the conclusion they are simply obsessed with hating SYDA. If they were as
concerned with decency and with the truth as they say then why would they
engage in such filth and lies in their attempts to obscure the truth? Just as
the Guru is possessed by the nature of Kundalini Chiti Shakti to play his/her
role in the world, these SYDA critics are possessed by the nature of Asuras to
play their role in life, and by contrast, their vileness only glorifies the
holiness of SYDA, so it all will work out perfectly in the end.
"The archetypal, originative guru is Shiva; the first guru is Vasugupta;
Vasugupta's successors constitute the lineage. And although the guru of the
Siddha Yoga movement is likewise assumed to be an authoritative channel for the
preservation, interpretation, transmission, and dissemination of this carefully
preserved body of timeless truth, an unbroken historical link from Vasugupta by
a regular succession of gurus down through the known three generations of the
lineage of Siddha Yoga presumably cannot, but perhaps need not, be documented."
"Just as a seed contains a whole tree in potential form, Kundalini contains all
the different forms of yoga, and when She is awakened through the grace of the
Guru, She makes all yogas take place within you spontaneously. The process
which begins when you receive Shaktipat is called Siddha Yoga, the perfect
yoga, or Maha Yoga, the great yoga. The path of Siddha Yoga is the path which
has been trodden by the greatest saints. It has a long and great lineage and
has existed since the Creation. This yoga bears its fruit immediately. Now, in
this very lifetime, wherever you happen to be, the power of Kundalini allows
you to realize the truth of the Self, through which spiritual and worldly life
merge into one."
"This emphasis on the availability by grace of a heightened inner capacity
which enables one to employ traditional techniques of sadhana spontaneously and
effortlessly, and to experience their effectiveness rapidly, is typical of
Siddha Yoga teaching:
Through Her grace alone, the spontaneous Kriya Yoga, also known as Maha Yoga or
Siddha Yoga, takes place. Kundalini Chiti Shakti carries one who loves the Guru
and has done sadhana to the sahasrara and merges that person in Shiva. Chiti
Herself takes on a human form to become the Guru and carry out the function of
shaktipat."
"Whether or not the devotee repeatedly participates in the "intensives," the
guru remains central to the sadhana process in Siddha Yoga; but the devotee's
understanding of the meaning of 'guru' eventually shifts and expands beyond its
specific reference to the person who sits on the throne (gaddi) which
symbolizes spiritual authority over the Siddha Yoga movement and the
institution which supports its work. While engaged in sadhana, the devotee
undergoes a change and begins to apprehend the guru as a profoundly universal
and inward reality--as a higher principle (guru tattva), as god (Shiva), as
consciousness (chaitanya, etc.), as self (atman)--in the senses which are made
explicit in the cosmology of Kashmir Shaivism. The guru becomes a lens for
seeing in a way radically different from the conventional way. The guru is a
power which reveals inherent unity."
The above illistrates the truth of the role of the Gurus in SYDA Yoga. These
truth has been mentioned before, and like all the other undenyable truths,
those that stated them were met by foul mouth abuses, as if name calling and
character assaniation somehow chaged the facts of long established truths. The
above makes clear that the Guru is a repensation of the Higher Self and is an
aid to help others focus on the Higher Self in the form of the Guru until they
realize this Higher Self in thier own being. In fact the last paragraph
deserves repeating:
"Whether or not the devotee repeatedly participates in the "intensives," the
guru remains central to the sadhana process in Siddha Yoga; but the devotee's
understanding of the meaning of 'guru' eventually shifts and expands beyond its
specific reference to the person who sits on the throne (gaddi) which
symbolizes spiritual authority over the Siddha Yoga movement and the
institution which supports its work. While engaged in sadhana, the devotee
undergoes a change and begins to apprehend the guru as a profoundly universal
and inward reality--as a higher principle (guru tattva), as god (Shiva), as
consciousness (chaitanya, etc.), as self (atman)--in the senses which are made
explicit in the cosmology of Kashmir Shaivism. The guru becomes a lens for
seeing in a way radically different from the conventional way. The guru is a
power which reveals inherent unity."
In the finally analasys:
"Kashmir Shaivism serves as the primary, but not exclusive, "map of the path"
for those who are followers of Siddha Yoga. They practice sadhana, a spiritual
discipline which aims at permanent conscious recollection of the universality
of selfhood."
Now the question that comes to mind is, since it's clear what SYDA Yoga is
teaching is basic Kashmir Shaivism, and since the biggest complaints against
SYDA are SYDA's affirmations of the most basic spiritual concepts of Kashmir
Shaivism, then in effect, isn't this a case of the SYDA critics finding fault
with SYDA for spreading the message of Kashmir Shaivism into the world?
If you are biased against Kashmir Shaivism, why don't you say so? One can't
help but notice how it's whenever the central teaching of Kashmir Shaivism
comes up that the biggest effort is made to drown it out the speaker. And not
by well thought out responses, but by vile foul mouth character assassination
and blatant lies. One can't help but get the impression that the SYDA critics
are so deluded they feel it to be a victory when they force people of high
moral character and spiritual sensibilities off this News Group, not by force
of argument, but by the vile stench of their being.
May your devotion be rewarded with grace,
ShivaShakta
a_jugg...@hotmail.com
You have ignored the fact that this forum is alt.support.EX-CULT.siddha-
yoga. The original intention for starting this newsgroup was to allow
people in the process of LEAVING Siddha Yoga to discuss their issues
with others in similar situations, beyond the confines of AOL boards.
The reality of Usenet is that an unmoderated newsgroup allows anyone to
send whatever they want, on or off-topic, opinion or fact. So, rather
than a gathering of people to discuss topics related to EX-CULT.SIDDHA-
YOGA, this forum has become a place where devotees argue with those who
choose to disagree with them rather than participate on a list of
supposedly like-minded *devotees*; people complain about the
moderated LSY list; SYDA wannabees espouse theories based on anything
other than direct experience of the topic; disruptive people spend
time flooding the newsgroup with whatever random subject they choose;
people who have left Siddha Yoga and can tolerate this environment;
others who don't fit neatly into any category show-up and a number of
lurkers.
Your selection of a site that uses Siddha Yoga in a discussion of
Kashmir Shaivism doesn't *prove* anything. As you clearly stated that
is not a site presented by the SYDA Foundation on Siddha Yoga, just one
person's analysis and opinion. The thread of discussion that you may be
referring to was not a discussion on whether or not there are elements
of Kasmiri Shaivite practices IN Siddha Yoga, but whether or not Siddha
Yoga is Kashmiri Shaivism in totality. I firmly stand by my position
that it is not. SY draws on many spiritual traditions, not one
exclusively.
As a former center leader, intensive programming sevite and someone who
was close to the South Fallsburg Inner Circle, I can speak from
experience that Siddha Yoga through the Foundation does NOT claim to be
a >RELIGION<. It is a self described spiritual tradition with roots in
India. The Foundation NEVER claims that Siddha Yoga is a "Hindu
Religion." This is a deliberate practice that allows people of all
faiths/cultures/backgrounds to join the fold without abandoning their
own religion. This is how all kinds of non-Indian based religious and
secular celebrations are incorporated into the Ashram.
You also neglected to share the *date* of that article. To paraphrase
another devotee, why are you dwelling on issues that are +/- 14 years
old?
Anyhow, in a situation of "truth" being based on SY's inclusion of
Kashmir Shaivism how does that address the pattern of lies and abuse
that other people have experienced? How does that make the harassment
of former devotees by the SYDAphile jihad valid? What does the
discussion of SY as a religion have to do with the land that they
destroyed in South Fallsburg? What pearls are being cast by a woman who
shows contempt for her own family? Who didn't want to support an AIDS
hospital program because there would be "no financial benefit?" What
scholar will you quote to explain why some receive "Special
Consideration," some are selected for special tests like having people
harass them by her command and some are senior citizens suddenly
tossed out? Or does the suffering of other hold no concern for you?
Does the experience of others that isn't so "golden" disturb your state?
Also, I read in your post a pattern of behavior that seems to be common
among devotees who use this forum to defend their path from perceived
attacks. Create an argument (people who do not support Siddha Yoga say
xyz). In this case you used the old Hindu/Shaivite chestnut, one of the
many many issues that former devotees have discussed, not the sole
point of contention. Then you support your defense with more
devotee/supporter opinions. Top it off with the standard everyone-here-
is-filled-with-hate-I'm-happy-and-you-guys-suck theme and it's another
win for the path of love and truth.
I'll ask you the same question that has been posed to other people who
have posted in rabid support of SYDA: Why do you make the effort to
seek out this forum and the writings of people who do not agree with
your opinion?
There are SYDA happy sites with blissful shares of the magic and wonder
of your "religion." There's a moderated and restricted list for
devotees to share their understanding of devotee fodder like the
pending termination of Darshan. You could even start your unmoderated
newsgroup and discuss whatever pro-SYDA topic pops into your head.
Yet you make a point to come HERE, where you know you will read
things that seem to disturb you. Where you scour the web to find
articles that will support your chosen battle and "cast pearls before
swine."
What is Siddha Yoga lacking that it's most ardent defenders can only
find in a community of those who have left?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Andy Comanda
news:7n5cio$86g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> ShivaShakti-
>...this forum has become a place where devotees argue with those who
> choose to disagree with them rather than participate on a list of
> supposedly like-minded *devotees
>
> What is Siddha Yoga lacking that it's most ardent defenders can only
> find in a community of those who have left?
Thank-you! Well said!
S235one08
>What is Siddha Yoga lacking that it's most ardent defenders can only
>find in a community of those who have left?
My theory on the above question is that these people believe that they are
gaining merit in the eyes of their guru. The word, "infidel" was used by one of
them. Perhaps they are planning to please their God with extreme demonstrations
of their worthiness to enter heaven. Perhaps some final act of retribution
against their perceived enemies is being contemplated.
Maybe, instead they really think they are doing their seva. Someone in
authority in their cult perhaps let drop that, "Gurumayi would be pleased
if....." or, "We can't say that Gurumayi is behind this but....." This was the
kind of prepping that representatives from South Fallsburg did in Southern
California to get us to break-up G.M.'s brother's meetings. Later we were
'rewarded' with a special darshan at the fire ceremony in the Mandap in S.F.
Last theory: They know that there is a lot of shakti here on this newsgroup.
Perhaps they don't know why but they are drawn here to test their "devoteism."
Maybe they have serious doubts and the only way to dispell them is to attack
those doubts here. In other words, this newsgroup is a manifestation of their
own doubts and they have to attack us rather than to really sort out what's
true.
I find this latest 'attack' particularly pathetic and absurd.
*******************S2351(ONE)O8******************
“When dealing with others who are less certain, simply having
certainty gives dominance.” (p.80) GURU PAPERS
a_jugg...@hotmail.com
> they are drawn here to test their "devoteism." Maybe
> they have serious doubts and the only way to dispell
> them is to attack those doubts here. In other words,
> this newsgroup is a manifestation of their own doubts
> and they have to attack us rather than to really sort
> out what's true.
It's entirely possible that a not so subtle message was put out by the
'shram, but in these cases I don't think so. Not in the Subash Shetty
harassment way at least. They don't have the prep and polish you'd
expect from someone on a stelth project like that. I think it's more
likely that the SYDAphiles do it as a self-assigned seva. Maybe they're
waiting for Malti to see their hard work in defending the path through
the SYDA Sankalpa Microwave Hotline(tm) and reward them with a soft
cushion right up front next to Catherine.
But my gut says that the reason these folks make a point of coming to
this forum, arguing with the ex-SYogi/nis on random points and leaving
with a firm statement about how great Siddha Yoga (tm) is, is exactly
what you describe above. For all the claims of SY's perfection, these
particular devotees are drawn to this forum and the onelist archives
like iron filings to a magnet. IMO, if they *really* didn't think the
opinions were in some way valid they wouldn't keep coming back for more.
> I find this latest 'attack' particularly pathetic
> and absurd.
I concur.
kotishival...@gmail.com
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