normal eeg?
scullytac
yr. old son screened with an eeg bec. he will soon get his license. I was
told that it was normal. My question is this. Can a person have a normal eeg
and still have epilepsy. I'm just nervous, because obviously, this is an
inherited condition.
Kevin
your life or your son's. Worrying about what "might be" just isn't
worth it.
The brain is like a car that makes a strange noise - if it doesn't
make a noise when you take it into the garage then the mechanic
probably won't be able to diagnose the problem. It's possible,
especially with short-term EEGs, that they won't pick up any abnormal
activity, even with epilepsy as a known (been there, done that ).
Having said that, they can use long-term EEG monitoring and possibly
pick up some abnormal waveforms absent of seizure activity,
particularly at night when normal brain activity is low. However,
long-term EEG is used as an advanced diagnostic tool instead of a
screening device. If you're in for a long-term EEG then you've
already exhibited symptoms that require investigation.
Kevin.
On Thu, 22 May 2003 20:57:17 GMT, "scullytac" <scul...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Julie
believe your 16 year old may have epilepsy, you may be causing added worry to
yourself and your son. Look at this seizure recognition chart and see if you
recognize any symptoms.
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure.htm
Take care,
Julie, Volunteer Webmaster
Epilepsy Foundation of Idhao
http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
Bob
> Anyone could develop a seizure disorder. Unless you have another reason to
> believe your 16 year old may have epilepsy, you may be causing added worry to
> yourself and your son. Look at this seizure recognition chart and see if you
> recognize any symptoms.
> http://www.epilepsyidaho.org/seizure.htm
>
> Take care,
> Julie, Volunteer Webmaster
> Epilepsy Foundation of Idhao
> http://www.epilepsyidaho.org
Hi Julie
Thanks again as always for making that website available! :-)
I hope this doesn't sound negatively critical, it's not meant to be, but I wonder
if the section on Simple Partials couldn't benefit from some changes? It starts
off with the Jerking symptoms (and that comes across as being the emphasis) and a
newcomer might be misled into thinking that Jerking is always a part of Simple
Partials.
My own Simple Partials have never involved any motor activity except possibly some
jaw chewing motions and I've never heard anyone else here describe Simple Partials
with jerking or other motor activity. I don't get the strange tastes or odors that
some report, but I do get that unique "funny feeling" (but not in the stomach!)
and a strange state of mind & emotion plus physical feelings around my skull.
Those who have grand mals and report having an "Aura" (or what has been called a
Simple Partial) just before the grand mal, don't have any jerking with the Aura as
I've heard it, but that comes with the grand mal itself immediately following with
the tonic-clonic convulsive seizure.
I may be mistaken about some of this, but I hope you understand the point I'm
trying to make about the website wording.
Regards
Bob
gaross
there of the Simple Partial, describes the start of my (when I had them)
Complex Partial seizures, and the Aura or Simple Partial includes the taste
and odour as part of my Right Temporal Lobe onset. It completely described
what *I* was having, that's why I usually advertise the site so much. G.R.
"Bob" <spsandl...@inter.net> wrote in message
news:3ECFC3F0...@inter.net...
Bob
> I just went back to look at the chart (described below).
Hi G.R. I'm not sure I'm following you there.
> The description
> there of the Simple Partial, describes the start of my (when I had them)
> Complex Partial seizures,
You're saying that the description of *Simple* Partials describes the beginning
of your *Complex* Partials? I'm puzzled. Do you get the jerking?
> and the Aura or Simple Partial includes the taste
> and odour as part of my Right Temporal Lobe onset.
Right! As I said, I don't get the taste & odor with my Simple Partials, but some
people do. Do you have the other symptoms with your SPS's as I described myself
having?
> It completely described
> what *I* was having, that's why I usually advertise the site so much. G.R.
It's a great site, but I was trying to point out a problem.
Bob
gaross
"Bob" <spsandl...@inter.net> wrote in message
news:3ECFDF0F...@inter.net...
> gaross wrote:
>
> > I just went back to look at the chart (described below).
>
> Hi G.R. I'm not sure I'm following you there.
>
> > The description
> > there of the Simple Partial, describes the start of my (when I had them)
> > Complex Partial seizures,
>
> You're saying that the description of *Simple* Partials describes the
beginning
> of your *Complex* Partials? I'm puzzled. Do you get the jerking?
I don't Know! We had a discussion a year ago about whether or why a S.P.
seizure was or wasn't an Aura. I use them interchangably-- When I got the
swirling sensations, some that you described somewhere here, or a lemon
odour or taste, I had 2-3 minutes to find somewhere cool to sit or lie down,
since the Complex Partial phase was off by then.
After that, I'd wake up on a Floor, in Emerg. or where ever I had gone
into the C.P. Seizure. Somewhere in the middle of the S.P. seizure (aura) I
lose touch with what's happening, if it generalized into a C.P. seizure.
Any reports of what I did or would do, are Second hand from Witnesses around
me. Aside from the sensations above, I'm *not* aware of what happens next --
that included walking across a Road without looking for Cars that were
coming in Both Directions, Jumping onto a Car hood (that was illegally
parked), throwing a Security Guard who tried to restrain me about 5-8 feet
(he was about the same weight I am-- normally I couldn't do that). I think
that's in the chart, or elsewhere on the efa.org site about my C.P.
generalizing (spreading to other areas of brain), and once THAT Happens, I'm
not longer aware of what happens, what I say or do -- therefore the First
Aid part about 'Walk with the person and talk calmly to them etc. Steer them
away from danger.'
** /G.
>
> > and the Aura or Simple Partial includes the taste
> > and odour as part of my Right Temporal Lobe onset.
>
> Right! As I said, I don't get the taste & odor with my Simple Partials,
but some
> people do. Do you have the other symptoms with your SPS's as I described
myself
> having?
** The only other parts (likely specific to Right Temporal Lobe Szr. Focus)
that I get a memory loss, confusion, sweat sometimes (even if it's 95F /35C
outdoors). I didn't go into a lot more about it on earlier note since
yours are different szr. type than mine? so what might work for my TLE type
might be different than e.g. a Gran Mal or other type? Do you know if
there's a 'Seizure Focus' associated with a Gran Mal? or Yours especially
since we're chatting about that here?
Since there are 2 Temporal Lobes and the focus could be in Either or
both, the Taste or Odour thing helps Locate the likely Left or Right
Temporal Lobe if that is involved in my (and some other's) types of
seizures.
The Aura we might have could be different from yours -- kind of like 2
different Electric Cars -- one that runs on 120 Volt AC, and the other on
220V DC or e.g. 175V etc... While some of the symptoms might overlap or be
similar, it's the different areas Firing that produce our various
sensations? That was my (limited) understanding of what's happening inside
there!! :-< G.
> > > newcomer might be misled to thinking the Jerking is always a part of
Bob
> * Embedded notes *2x !! before dinner :-> G.
Have a good one!<g>
> "Bob" <spsandl...@inter.net> wrote in message
> news:3ECFDF0F...@inter.net...
> > gaross wrote:
> >
> > > I just went back to look at the chart (described below).
> >
> > Hi G.R. I'm not sure I'm following you there.
> >
> > > The description
> > > there of the Simple Partial, describes the start of my (when I had them)
> > > Complex Partial seizures,
> >
> > You're saying that the description of *Simple* Partials describes the
> beginning
> > of your *Complex* Partials? I'm puzzled. Do you get the jerking?
>
> I don't Know! We had a discussion a year ago about whether or why a S.P.
> seizure was or wasn't an Aura. I use them interchangably--
and I now also recognize & acknowledge that interchangeable use so that we are
all speaking the same language and won't have a communication problem. :-) My
only gripe is that the term "Aura" so beautifully described that "funny feeling"
I sometimes got, with or without it blossoming into a full Simple Partial
seizure. Oh Well!
> When I got the
> swirling sensations, some that you described somewhere here, or a lemon
> odour or taste, I had 2-3 minutes to find somewhere cool to sit or lie down,
> since the Complex Partial phase was off by then.
Ok, but the lemon odor & taste period was a separate phase in and of itself and
would be called your Aura/Simple Partial.
> After that, I'd wake up on a Floor, in Emerg. or where ever I had gone
> into the C.P. Seizure.
That was your *second* phase that followed the *first* phase Aura/Simple
Partial. That second phase sounds more like a Grand Mal to me than a Complex
Partial. My neurologist has verified that I was having Complex Partials and
there was no loss of consciousness! There was only some strange behavior and no
memory afterwards of what had gone on during that period of time.
> Somewhere in the middle of the S.P. seizure (aura) I
> lose touch with what's happening, if it generalized into a C.P. seizure.
> Any reports of what I did or would do, are Second hand from Witnesses around
> me. Aside from the sensations above, I'm *not* aware of what happens next --
> that included walking across a Road without looking for Cars that were
> coming in Both Directions, Jumping onto a Car hood (that was illegally
> parked), throwing a Security Guard who tried to restrain me about 5-8 feet
> (he was about the same weight I am-- normally I couldn't do that).
Those, on the other hand, do sound like Complex Partials as you were still
conscious, albeit an altered state of consciousness.
> I think
> that's in the chart, or elsewhere on the efa.org site about my C.P.
> generalizing (spreading to other areas of brain), and once THAT Happens, I'm
> not longer aware of what happens, what I say or do -- therefore the First
> Aid part about 'Walk with the person and talk calmly to them etc. Steer them
> away from danger.'
> ** /G.
> >
> > > and the Aura or Simple Partial includes the taste
> > > and odour as part of my Right Temporal Lobe onset.
> >
> > Right! As I said, I don't get the taste & odor with my Simple Partials,
> but some
> > people do. Do you have the other symptoms with your SPS's as I described
> myself
> > having?
> ** The only other parts (likely specific to Right Temporal Lobe Szr. Focus)
> that I get a memory loss, confusion, sweat sometimes (even if it's 95F /35C
> outdoors). I didn't go into a lot more about it on earlier note since
> yours are different szr. type than mine? so what might work for my TLE type
> might be different than e.g. a Gran Mal or other type? Do you know if
> there's a 'Seizure Focus' associated with a Gran Mal? or Yours especially
> since we're chatting about that here?
I've never had a Grand Mal - only Simple & Complex Partials. It does appear to
be a Right Temporal Lobe problem though.
> Since there are 2 Temporal Lobes and the focus could be in Either or
> both, the Taste or Odour thing helps Locate the likely Left or Right
> Temporal Lobe if that is involved in my (and some other's) types of
> seizures.
> The Aura we might have could be different from yours -- kind of like 2
> different Electric Cars -- one that runs on 120 Volt AC, and the other on
> 220V DC or e.g. 175V etc... While some of the symptoms might overlap or be
> similar, it's the different areas Firing that produce our various
> sensations? That was my (limited) understanding of what's happening inside
> there!! :-< G.
In terms of the "funny feeling" that is associated with the Aura, I dearly wish
that I heard more people speak up about that. When I first felt that "funny
feeling" (it's a feeling that is totally unique to my disease) in recent years,
I immediately recognized it as a feeling that I had had off & on throughout my
life.
Bob
gaross
> gaross wrote:
> <some, well a whole bunch, of stuff>
Then Bob said -->
> In terms of the "funny feeling" that is associated with the Aura, I dearly
wish
> that I heard more people speak up about that. When I first felt that
"funny
> feeling" (it's a feeling that is totally unique to my disease) in recent
years,
> I immediately recognized it as a feeling that I had had off & on
throughout my
> life.
>
> Bob
>
I think there have been quite a few posters, plus likely also in the
General Population, who could be having mild seizures (SPS) but be unaware
of whether those are 'unusual'. Afterall if the sky has always been Yellow,
the sky is yellow. Some others here, with yourself now, have had those
since birth or early on so 'it's normal and o.k. for you'. *I* only
notice the difference (and originally in 1993-5 the Fear) that a Simple
Partial Seizure (Aura) produces in my sensations, since I had many (Many!!)
years, where I never had those...
For me initially, the fear came from the fact that mine started there as
the Lemon taste or odour, the Deja Vu feeling (I've done this already) and
within 5-10 minutes progressed into the Electrical Firestorm that was
described under Complex Partial Seizures. /G.
Bob
> "Bob" <spsandl...@inter.net> wrote in message
> news:3ED00F78...@inter.net...
> > gaross wrote:
> > <some, well a whole bunch, of stuff>
>
> Then Bob said -->
> > In terms of the "funny feeling" that is associated with the Aura, I dearly
> wish
> > that I heard more people speak up about that. When I first felt that "funny
> > feeling" (it's a feeling that is totally unique to my disease) in recent
> years,
> > I immediately recognized it as a feeling that I had had off & on throughout
> my
> > life.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> I think there have been quite a few posters, plus likely also in the
> General Population, who could be having mild seizures (SPS) but be unaware
> of whether those are 'unusual'. Afterall if the sky has always been Yellow,
> the sky is yellow.
I see what you're saying, Perhaps they think it's a normal part of life?
> Some others here, with yourself now, have had those
> since birth or early on so 'it's normal and o.k. for you'.
It sure as H is NOT o.k. for me!
> *I* only
> notice the difference (and originally in 1993-5 the Fear) that a Simple
> Partial Seizure (Aura) produces in my sensations, since I had many (Many!!)
> years, where I never had those...
That's the same with me. I went for ~25 years in recent times before they came
back suddenly. Before that, they had been on & off over the years and I was
never properly diagnosed by the MD's I went to.
> For me initially, the fear came from the fact that mine started there as
> the Lemon taste or odour, the Deja Vu feeling (I've done this already) and
> within 5-10 minutes progressed into the Electrical Firestorm that was
> described under Complex Partial Seizures. /G.
But don't you also have a unique "funny feeling" to go along with the lemon &
deja vu?
Bob
gaross
seizures, did you think there was anything 'wrong'? You had said you had
always had them, so I was guessing (possibly wrongly) that if a lemon taste
or odour drifted by 4, 6 times a week, unless you related that to something
like a seizure onset or anything stronger, if nothing stronger followed,
would it have felt like e.g. a cold breeze when someone opens a door, or a
'hot flash' as you walked by one of those Donut Windows in a Shopping Mall
and felt a blast of the exhaust air from the heaters they use?
As I got closer to control with the Tegretol CR at first, and later with
the Tegretol Frisium combination, I noticed those types of feelings (for me)
were happening less often. Instead of 4-5x a day, they became 4-5x a week,
then a month. And as I got nearer to full control, and dose balance, those
auras became more widely spaced. I had 1 or 2 in the last week. Other times
I've managed to go a month or 2-3 without any.
Mine seem to be more aggravated by Hot Humid weather, and less frequent
when it's Cold in the winter, or when the air is less 'congesting' if that
makes sense. With more humid air, and because I walk most places, I notice
the stuffiness producing some of the Brain Fog and although I don't get the
swirling dizzy stuff of the older Aura. It's kind of like the little guy in
olde L'il Abner Cartoons (Joe Btsplk?) walking under this little cloud --
that's the brain fog I was trying to describe elsewhere.
I also get a noticeable Forehead Ache as Low Air Pressure zones first
move in -- Rain or Snow approaching... Once it's raining it subsides -- I
was even out on the (sheltered ) deck 2 nights ago during a lightning storm
watching the Flashes and counting the time before the Thunder clap -- each 5
seconds is 1 mile away that the lightning is. G./
> > *I* only notice the difference (and originally in 1993-5 the Fear)
that a Simple
> > Partial Seizure (Aura) produces in my sensations, since I had many
(Many!!)
> > years, where I never had those...
>
> That's the same with me. I went for ~25 years in recent times before they
came
> back suddenly. Before that, they had been on & off over the years and I
was
> never properly diagnosed by the MD's I went to.
>
> > For me initially, the fear came from the fact that mine started there
as
> > the Lemon taste or odour, the Deja Vu feeling (I've done this already)
and
> > within 5-10 minutes progressed into the Electrical Firestorm that was
> > described under Complex Partial Seizures. /G.
>
> But don't you also have a unique "funny feeling" to go along with the
lemon &
> deja vu?
> Bob
>
Most times it was just a 'Brain Fog' Lisa or someone described, a sensation
my forehead was perspiring (even in Winter), but the rest were mostly like
above -- the Lemon taste that wasn't there, Lemon Cleaners can bring it on
with the odour, and now if I feel a Deja Vu, I just think 'hmmm that's like
an aura starting, I should find somewhere to get a cold drink (Sprite or 7
Up) or sit down where it's cool'. At onset (1993), before diagnosis or
med. control, the time between Aura Onset and full blackout was measured in
seconds. Even with Dilantin (2 years) and Tegretol CR alone (1-2 years), I
often had less than 3-4 minutes from start of Aura to ... waking up on the
floor or in Emerg. It was that quick.
That's why I usually try to get some of the newer posters to stay with
their prescribed medications until their bodies have adjusted to the dose
levels, and give them a chance to work for them. Some expect them to work
within 2-3 days, or don't realize that if they skip doses, or just stop
abruptly (especially with Tegretol, but some others too), that they risk
causing a relapse, and that possibly it could be harder then to try control
the 2nd time. G.R.
Bob
> <snip>
> Well, what I was trying to suggest was before someone told you those were
> seizures, did you think there was anything 'wrong'?
I always thought that I was just being sick as in flu etc or a urinary tract
infection or gum infection. Quite often, if the right antbiotic was given, then
all problems would disappear. At other times, since my problem would have
seemed like one of the head/mind as opposed to the rest of the body, I went to
that type of doctor and usually wound up with a prescription for something like
reserpine, Valium, Miltown - tranquilizers.
> You had said you had
> always had them,
I'm unsure about it. I had meningitis when I was about 9-10 years old and that
might be when it all started. I don't really know for sure.
> so I was guessing (possibly wrongly) that if a lemon taste
> or odour drifted by 4, 6 times a week, unless you related that to something
> like a seizure onset or anything stronger, if nothing stronger followed,
> would it have felt like e.g. a cold breeze when someone opens a door, or a
> 'hot flash' as you walked by one of those Donut Windows in a Shopping Mall
> and felt a blast of the exhaust air from the heaters they use?
I think your lemon & Deja Vu thing must be at the same point in the cycle as my
own "funny feeling". That's probably the same sort of TLE problem effecting two
different people in different ways.
> As I got closer to control with the Tegretol CR at first, and later with
> the Tegretol Frisium combination, I noticed those types of feelings (for me)
> were happening less often. Instead of 4-5x a day, they became 4-5x a week,
> then a month. And as I got nearer to full control, and dose balance, those
> auras became more widely spaced. I had 1 or 2 in the last week. Other times
> I've managed to go a month or 2-3 without any.
> Mine seem to be more aggravated by Hot Humid weather, and less frequent
> when it's Cold in the winter, or when the air is less 'congesting' if that
> makes sense. With more humid air, and because I walk most places, I notice
> the stuffiness producing some of the Brain Fog and although I don't get the
> swirling dizzy stuff of the older Aura. It's kind of like the little guy in
> olde L'il Abner Cartoons (Joe Btsplk?) walking under this little cloud --
> that's the brain fog I was trying to describe elsewhere.
> I also get a noticeable Forehead Ache as Low Air Pressure zones first
> move in -- Rain or Snow approaching... Once it's raining it subsides -- I
> was even out on the (sheltered ) deck 2 nights ago during a lightning storm
> watching the Flashes and counting the time before the Thunder clap -- each 5
> seconds is 1 mile away that the lightning is. G./
I may also be effected by the weather and/or season, but I haven't been able to
nail down anything specific on that as yet.
> <snip>
> Most times it was just a 'Brain Fog' Lisa or someone described, a sensation
> my forehead was perspiring (even in Winter), but the rest were mostly like
> above -- the Lemon taste that wasn't there, Lemon Cleaners can bring it on
> with the odour, and now if I feel a Deja Vu, I just think 'hmmm that's like
> an aura starting,
Here again, I think we are at the same point in the cycle. In my case, just
thinking back on my "funny feeling" and seizure enough can actually trigger it
to happen. That's equivalent to the Lemon Cleaner triggering yours.
> I should find somewhere to get a cold drink (Sprite or 7
> Up) or sit down where it's cool'. At onset (1993), before diagnosis or
> med. control, the time between Aura Onset and full blackout was measured in
> seconds. Even with Dilantin (2 years) and Tegretol CR alone (1-2 years), I
> often had less than 3-4 minutes from start of Aura to ... waking up on the
> floor or in Emerg. It was that quick.
I sometimes had the "funny feeling" without it developing into the full SPS, but
it was within seconds if it did happen. If it developed into a CPS then I simply
can't remember and can't tell you how that worked.
> That's why I usually try to get some of the newer posters to stay with
> their prescribed medications until their bodies have adjusted to the dose
> levels, and give them a chance to work for them. Some expect them to work
> within 2-3 days, or don't realize that if they skip doses, or just stop
> abruptly (especially with Tegretol, but some others too), that they risk
> causing a relapse, and that possibly it could be harder then to try control
> the 2nd time. G.R.
You're sure right there. I note that my situation is always in gradual change
even when I've been on the same dosages for quite some time now.
Bob