Why do you post here?
mrs_cal
been a few posts that make me wonder why people come here to post, so I
figured I'd ask.
I come here hoping to either receive support, or give support, whichever is
needed at the time. If I'm capable of giving that support, then I try to do
that. Sometimes I come here to hear what I don't REALLY WANT to hear, but
NEED to hear, anyway.
At the same time, I have come to regard many of the regular posters as
friends, who I would like to be able to share my triumphs with. Or to
whine, complain or vent about a situation I might be having trouble with.
Is this improper use of the group? And is it wrong of me, if I have a typo,
or use bad grammar? Am I wrong to be irritated by a poster's need to
criticize the trivial things, such as spelling, etc?
If there is a particular poster that you just KNOW is going to irritate you,
why don't you killfile them? (this comment is directed to those who are
continually complaining about one certain poster, or another. you know who
you are)
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. There was more, but decided
this was enough, so I deleted the rest of my tirade......
Cal~
This tirade is brought to you by the fact that certain people are just
bugging the HECK out of me this weekend..:-)
YooperBoyka
mrs_cal <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
(((((((Cal))))))))
Lauri
wrote:
>Curious what you hope to get out of posting to this newsgroup. There have
>been a few posts that make me wonder why people come here to post, so I
>figured I'd ask.
Good topic, Cal. I post here for lots of reasons. I post here
because, after over 4 years of being divorced, I'm still somewhat
stunned to find myself in this position. I'm still trying to sort
out how my marriage went a relationship between two young people who
thought the world of each other and were excited about a future
together, to one where respect and love no longer existed.
I also post here because, despite the above, I've found that there is
still life after divorce. There is still growth, and love, and
happiness despite my failures. I post here because I want to be a
helping hand to those in despair, and to offer hope to someone who may
feel hopeless.
I, too, have found many here to be friends. There are some that I
already feel I know fairly well, or at least as well as one CAN know
another in an "e-lationship". There are others that I have recently
met that I would like to know better, and still others that I feel I
know quite well enough, thankyouverymuch!
I find it gratifying to see people grow and come to new understandings
here. This place helped me to come to those understandings about
myself, and maybe I can return the favor to others.
Lauri in WA, grateful that her ISP is finally forwarding posts again
Mary Lou
I come here becuz there are some here who i can relate to, and i like to think
by putting my feelings into words, i can help others in identifying their own
feelings (at least i've been told that this has happened)...
Sometimes just bouncing my thoughts in here i get some feedback that helps me
make sense of things. At the same time, i find some nonsensical BS bounces
back, and i've learned to ignore that..
I also come here for the humor, the laughs that sometimes come beaming right
thru the tears... that touches my heart.
I come here to talk about my kids, and my situation with/regarding them, and
hear about the kids of other parents, share ideas, etc..
I come here to congratulate those who have made progress, and to cry with
those who are hurting..
And to attempt to offer suggestions to those who are asking for help...
Although i'm technically a spelling/grammar-fanatic, i let it loose in here
becuz my personality comes thru in my personal twists on spellings/grammar,
otherwise it would be lost.
So there! :-P
In article <PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "mrs_cal"
Indy
I post here for alot of reasosn, I supose it's to get advice, to seek support,
to know I am not completely alone in some experiences. To Vent rant let of
steam.
To see if there ideas on how to handel things.. And sometiomes just to see what
others have to say. (and to get a laugh out of people like Doc)
Steve
mrs_cal wrote:
>
> Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. There was more, but decided
> this was enough, so I deleted the rest of my tirade......
>
> Cal~
>
> This tirade is brought to you by the fact that certain people are just
> bugging the HECK out of me this weekend..:-)
I post here when I think I have something unique, funny or relevant to
post. There have been a few posts by people where I recognized myself
and to those I always respond.
I also come here because I came out of divorce thinking I was the most
screwed up person there was. I see the doc and some others here and take
comfort that I'm not on the top of the list. I also gather a great deal
of wisdom from the many others.
Steve
Andy Mox
mrs_cal <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
At first I wanted answers. Didn't know what I was getting into or why this
was happening. Then I started to notice that even though I hate what I am
going through, my divorce is fairly easy compared to some of the horror
stories I have seen posted to this newsgroup. So, now I try to give support
where I can and enjoy the company.
And I can vent here and say things here that would have other friends recoil
or withdraw from me.
lisa ball
thinking. This is a safe place to do it without getting cut off with the
comment "Why did you marry him"
--
Lisa
mrs_cal <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Roger (or Rog')
===Rog'===
"mrs_cal" <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Americk1123
Daisy
stayed to give the advice that helped me through all the different stages of
the divorce road....but mainly I stayed around because of the friends I made
here. I don't post much anymore but still lurk everyday.
And who would be complete without their daily dose of Daisy (((hugs))))?
Daisy
"mrs_cal" <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
floridanewbie
wrote:
>Curious what you hope to get out of posting to this newsgroup.
<snip>
I wandered into ASD and ASM and a couple of other groups to learn more
about human beings and the complexities they faced in their
relationships and in life in general... the kind of stuff I studied in
college and grad school did not much touch on interpersonal dynamics.
Floridanewbie
sros...@aix1.uottawa.ca
: Curious what you hope to get out of posting to this newsgroup. There have
: been a few posts that make me wonder why people come here to post, so I
: figured I'd ask.
Its therapeutic.
: Is this improper use of the group? And is it wrong of me, if I have a typo,
: or use bad grammar? Am I wrong to be irritated by a poster's need to
: criticize the trivial things, such as spelling, etc?
I try to follow the FAQ, but it is only a guideline. My reply to the
article on pychotherapy was narcisism.
--
--
shawn
Mary Lou
>I like the food
heh... and the beer.
YooperBoyka
floridanewbie <florid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a880a45...@news.mindspring.com...
>
> I wandered into ASD and ASM and a couple of other groups to learn more
> about human beings and the complexities they faced in their
> relationships and in life in general... the kind of stuff I studied in
> college and grad school did not much touch on interpersonal dynamics.
>
(awright, where's da frickin' cheese, eh?)
mrs_cal
irritation with a certain 'newer' member of our group, I didn't mean to
sound sarcastic. I was kind of hoping she'd respond too (or is that two?
to? <eg>), since I am really curious as to what her reasons were. What she
hopes to get out of posting the things she does. If it is to just bitch and
moan about the people who also post to this group, then I don't see the
point.
Cal~
"mrs_cal" <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PVJh6.1283$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Fido
Daisy wrote:
>
>
> And who would be complete without their daily dose of Daisy (((hugs))))?
Not me!
Best - Fido
>
> Daisy
Daisy
Daisy
"Fido" <tomch...@nxi.com> wrote in message news:3A8869...@nxi.com...
Toni B
Someone asked a similar question a while back and I maintain that I come here
for the ass-whoopins.
Jeff W
> >
> You mean,......we're like,............LAB RATS???????
> (awright, where's da frickin' cheese, eh?)
(I like the food)
floridanewbie
wrote:
hahaha ... if anything, I'm the lab rat wondering how to better
navigate the maze of human relationships
Floridanewbie
Americk1123
GGGNH
Hey Cal,
I wish this was easy to answer. I don't know why I post to any group. I
came to this NG two months ago, just lurking to see if there was again
for me. While in lurk-mode, I saw many different types of post from
people who were in need of someone to listen, talk to, rant to, and cry
to. I saw I was further along than some and behind others in where I was
at in dealing with my situation. I have learned more than I thought I
would be being here.
I ignore most of those who tend to post crap (Like Dr. Webb) and look at
those from people who's names are familar or seem to be looking for
help. Where I think I can offer some assistance, a fresh point of view,
or levity, I post something or send an email to the poster.
As far as the grammar or spelling use, I often choose my words
improperly when in verbal conversation, so I do the same in writing. It
is the message that is important to me, not the spelling. But then, I'm
an optimist about life. I feel bad things happen for a reason and while
they hurt at the time, the right thing to do is to learn from the
experience and move on with life. I often use the killfile to ignore
folks I really don't want to hear about. In this NG, I don't use that
but have learned to scrutinize message from certain folks or with
certain keywords in the subject line.
GGGHN
Light travels faster than sound........
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
Janie
<tbrg...@cs.com> wrote:
> Someone asked a similar question a while back and I maintain that I come here
> for the ass-whoopins.
Toni you crack me up :-)
Janie
--
The reason why rivers and seas receive the homage of a hundred mountain
streams is that they keep below them. -- Lao Tse
Steve Martin
"Toni B" <tbrg...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010212211457...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
>
>
> Someone asked a similar question a while back and I maintain that I come
> here for the ass-whoopins.
And I'm really getting sore. It is so embarrassing not being able to sit
down!
I still have not found in the FAQ where the newbie has to go through
"hazing" for a whole month. LOL
sam
Don't push the red button, NEVER push the red button! Daffy Duck
Mary Lou
>In article <20010212211457...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com>, Toni B
><tbrg...@cs.com> wrote:
>
>> Someone asked a similar question a while back and I maintain that I come here
>> for the ass-whoopins.
>
>Toni you crack me up :-)
>
>Janie
>
YooperBoyka
here
> for the ass-whoopins.
LOL!! ((((Toni))))
YooperBoyka
>
> hahaha ... if anything, I'm the lab rat wondering how to better
> navigate the maze of human relationships
>
of view.
Joseph W. Casey
> (((Fido))) you're the bestest friend a duck could ever have!! :)
Even if he is a little Daffy at times??
> Daisy
>
>
> "Fido" <tomch...@nxi.com> wrote in message news:3A8869...@nxi.com...
>> :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Daisy wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > And who would be complete without their daily dose of Daisy (((hugs))))?
>>
>> Not me!
>>
>> Best - Fido
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Daisy
>>
>
>
--
ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM
What a long strange trip it's been!
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess,
YooperBoyka
Mary Lou <i2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xs4i6.12904$Xj4.6...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com...
> >Toni you crack me up :-)
> >
> >Janie
> >
> pun intended??? (__l__)
ML,......is that a picture of your,...your,..........<THUD!>
Mary Lou
my ORANGE!!
Douglas
something every time i read..i think posting here is great free therapy
and others who judge your grammer should log on to "anal on
line"...also typing is a burden at times and in this letter i did not
capitalize on purpose (for all those critics out there)...douglas
wolf...@yourmamma.net
wrote:
>Curious what you hope to get out of posting to this newsgroup. There have
>been a few posts that make me wonder why people come here to post, so I
>figured I'd ask.
>
>I come here hoping to either receive support, or give support, whichever is
>needed at the time. If I'm capable of giving that support, then I try to do
>that. Sometimes I come here to hear what I don't REALLY WANT to hear, but
>NEED to hear, anyway.
>
>At the same time, I have come to regard many of the regular posters as
>friends, who I would like to be able to share my triumphs with. Or to
>whine, complain or vent about a situation I might be having trouble with.
I came here to vent, scream which grew to get a new point of view. Now
I'm here for a diffrent reason...
If any one word describes the one emotion I went through the most in
my first divorce it was fear. Lost and not knowing which way to turn
I've made a number of bad decisions.
If posting here let's me save a few souls some of the painful learning
curve than I've done something good from it all.
I've staied to exercise my demons, not exorcise them.
Philosophers and plowmen,each must know his part
To sow a new mentality, closer to the Heart.
To Reply by e-mail remove the number 1 from
wolf...@socket.net
m miller
I derive great benefit from this particular newsgroup, because with
divorce / separation / loss, you always feel inside like you are going
it alone. I still feel that way sometimes.
For instance, in a recent post, I mention my ex-wife had just
remarried..and I was a jumble of emotions. I received lots of caring
responses, support, and insights I didn't have before.
I think the people of this newsgroup have much wisdom I don't
possess. While I am wishing what happened to me didn't happen to them,
we all know that we are in "similar boats."
And being an anonymous sort of posting ground, you are sure to get
the "trolls" who only make you feel worse...
but honestly, I have not found that to be the case. Much of what I have
read has really restored my faith in mankind.
I am appreciative of the support I've gotten and the wisdom the
people here have shared with me. Divorce = pain, even if you are
relieved to no longer be a part of the union...and the vast majority of
people here understand that.
I wish you well....
Matthew
Alexa
"love" for him -- they are entirely about your EGO.
TRUE LOVE is not about receiving something in return. TRUE LOVE is about
about GIVING, with no strings attached. The fact that you feel your husband
should "owe" you something just because you took care of the children on
Valentine's Day will only serve to add to his disgust of you.
Men -- and women -- are really TURNED OFF by desperate mates! You insist on
being the "Mrs."; you are suspicious of the in-laws holiday greetings to
you.
If you really love the man who was your husband -- LOVE, in the HIGHEST FORM
-- then you will wish him the best and hope that he finds that for which he
is looking.)
If you REALLY care about him, then you will say to yourself, "I wish I
could've provided that for him, but if if he finds more happiness with
someone else, then so be it.
THAT is LOVE.
THAT is DEVOTION.
--A.
Steve Martin
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
news:B6B323C3.8313%infopr...@needtoknow.basis...
Excuse me Alexa but that is the biggest bunch of bullsh*t that I have heard
in a long time. You do not "love" someone by wishing them the best in
anything they want to do. That is indulgence, not love. Love in the
highest form is the love that Jesus Christ had for us. And nowhere in his
love would he wish the best for us as we went down a path of sin. He judged
and rebuked many people to get them to turn from their ways, never sweetly
saying, I love you so anything you do is wonderful and I support you wholly.
But this way is not popular. It is so much more satisfying to agree with
them so they won't think ill of you. The tougher way is to adhere to your
vows and expect the same from your spouse. Ask yourself this, would you
rather your children live in a world where there are rules and regulations
and honor, or in a world where the only thing important is to make yourself
happy.
I did not mean to come on so strong, but my stbx tried to give me this same
line of crap that I should willingly continue to be married to her and let
her and mr. wonderful have their own special time. For if I could see how
happy he made her, and if I truly loved her, how could I not want her to be
happy. That is just plain selfish and makes a mockery of marriage and the
covenant with God.
My own 2 cents
sam
Don't push the red button, Never push the red button! Daffy Duck
mrs_cal
contrary...........
I thought you were an ass last Saturday with your off the wall comments, you
have just confirmed it with this post....
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
news:B6B323C3.8313%infopr...@needtoknow.basis...
> Don't kid yourself: your feelings about the ex are NOT about your
purported
> "love" for him -- they are entirely about your EGO.
>
> TRUE LOVE is not about receiving something in return. TRUE LOVE is about
> about GIVING, with no strings attached. The fact that you feel your
husband
> should "owe" you something just because you took care of the children on
> Valentine's Day will only serve to add to his disgust of you.
>
> Men -- and women -- are really TURNED OFF by desperate mates! You insist
on
> being the "Mrs."; you are suspicious of the in-laws holiday greetings to
> you.
I wasn't suspicious of my in-laws. I was upset that they felt the need to
wish me happy VD. Why would anyone think this first VD without him would be
happy????
>
> If you really love the man who was your husband -- LOVE, in the HIGHEST
FORM
> -- then you will wish him the best and hope that he finds that for which
he
> is looking.)
>
I have, which is ONE of several reasons I offered to take the kids that day.
> If you REALLY care about him, then you will say to yourself, "I wish I
> could've provided that for him, but if if he finds more happiness with
> someone else, then so be it.
I HAVE.......of course you wouldn't know it if it bite in in the
butt............
>
> THAT is LOVE.
>
> THAT is DEVOTION.
>
> --A.
>
> Since you seem to know so much..........WHY did you keep asking about what
is love during the chat, and then got TICK Off that no one answered it to
YOUR satisfaction..............
Go To HELL, Alexa.......I don't need some half-assed advice from someone
like you. Saturday, you asked if we could have an IQ test for the people
who post on the NG. How 'bout we test for B*tches............?? You'd be
one the first one off..........You have managed to alienate so many people
here, not because of your beliefs, but your completely bitchy, and superior
attitude.
Alexa
I always looked forward to those funky Cosmopolitan-magazine quizzes, as
goofy as they've always been!)
The fact that you've lashed out with outrageous names towards me -- not even
knowing me -- only lends to your x's reasons for leaving you. Duh! -- no
wonder he walked out on you so easily. Your inability to take a good look at
your SELF as the possible reason for his walking out is enough to let us
know that maybe he DID/DOES have a reason for having done so!
On 2/16/01 8:01 PM, mrs_cal (mrs...@hotmail.com) shared:
mrs_cal
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
> I am not opposed to any sort of "tests"! I think they're fun! (I admit
that
> I always looked forward to those funky Cosmopolitan-magazine quizzes, as
> goofy as they've always been!)
>
> The fact that you've lashed out with outrageous names towards me -- not
even
> knowing me -- only lends to your x's reasons for leaving you. Duh! -- no
> wonder he walked out on you so easily. Your inability to take a good look
at
> your SELF as the possible reason for his walking out is enough to let us
> know that maybe he DID/DOES have a reason for having done so!
You don't know ANYTHING............You have, over the course of the few
weeks at this NG EARNED those names, all by your little ole
self..............believe me, I'm not the only one who thinks so, just the
only one here that has publicly stated so...
mrs_cal
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
news:B6B323C3.8313%infopr...@needtoknow.basis...
on
> being the "Mrs."; you are suspicious of the in-laws holiday greetings to
> you.
BTW, I only insist on the MRS. because of my children. They have asked me
to keep being mrs S., so I will remain so until they are off to school, and
ready for their own lives. Right now, their wishes are MUCH more important
than what ANYONE else in the world thinks, especially people like you, who
have only come here to judge others, rather than to offer any kind of
support, or seek out support. Almost without exception all your posts have
been judgmental about someone.
If this is how you are in RL, ask..............you must be tons of fun to be
around, NOT..........
Nena
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
> I am not opposed to any sort of "tests"! I think they're fun! (I admit
that
> I always looked forward to those funky Cosmopolitan-magazine quizzes, as
> goofy as they've always been!)
>
> The fact that you've lashed out with outrageous names towards me -- not
even
> knowing me -- only lends to your x's reasons for leaving you. Duh! -- no
> wonder he walked out on you so easily. Your inability to take a good look
at
> your SELF as the possible reason for his walking out is enough to let us
> know that maybe he DID/DOES have a reason for having done so!
Just out of curiousity: Do you feel better now? Does it actually give you
satisfaction to attack the ones that are down already? Is it fun to know
where somebody has their sore spots and their wounds , so it will make it
easier to really hurt somebody? Does it take away from your own pain when
you hurt somebody else?
How long does that feeling of satisfaction last after an attack?
And does it leave a very bitter after-taste behind?
Oh, by the way, don't even start critisizing my English, unless you want to
come back to me with a reply in perfect German.
Nena
"Günstige Winde kann nur der nutzen, der weiß, wohin er will"
Alexa
reason, she is currently satisfying him in ways that you do not. Will he
eventually see that you provided him more satisfaction than she ever could?
Probably so! I'm SERIOUS! If you just allow yourself to "love" him -- truly
"love" him -- then you will, I promise, perhaps after bunches of time, be
able to see all of this in perspective. And maybe you won't hate me as much.
But if hating me is what you need to do at this time, then go for it!
Believe me, I've been then and done that . . .
mrs_cal
"Nena" <ann...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qLkj6.24930$bP4.39959@NewsReader...
Nena,
She'd be an idiot to criticize, since you spoke very well...........Thank
you for sticking up for me. I do appreciate it:-)
Cal~
Alexa
On 2/16/01 8:56 PM, mrs_cal (mrs...@hotmail.com) shared:
mrs_cal
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
You've made it VERY EASY to believe that...............
>
>
Mary Lou
>A perfect example of a non-sequitur.
A non-sequin turd?? Mine never have sequins on them...
Janie
Janie
In article <Yzjj6.601$0K3....@newsfeed.slurp.net>, Steve Martin
<ste...@netusa1.net> wrote:
> Excuse me Alexa but that is the biggest bunch of bullsh*t that I have heard
> in a long time. You do not "love" someone by wishing them the best in
> anything they want to do. That is indulgence, not love. Love in the
> highest form is the love that Jesus Christ had for us. And nowhere in his
> love would he wish the best for us as we went down a path of sin. He judged
> and rebuked many people to get them to turn from their ways, never sweetly
> saying, I love you so anything you do is wonderful and I support you wholly.
>
> But this way is not popular. It is so much more satisfying to agree with
> them so they won't think ill of you. The tougher way is to adhere to your
> vows and expect the same from your spouse. Ask yourself this, would you
> rather your children live in a world where there are rules and regulations
> and honor, or in a world where the only thing important is to make yourself
> happy.
>
> I did not mean to come on so strong, but my stbx tried to give me this same
> line of crap that I should willingly continue to be married to her and let
> her and mr. wonderful have their own special time. For if I could see how
> happy he made her, and if I truly loved her, how could I not want her to be
> happy. That is just plain selfish and makes a mockery of marriage and the
> covenant with God.
>
> My own 2 cents
>
> sam
>
> Don't push the red button, Never push the red button! Daffy Duck
--
Janie
mrs_cal <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You don't know ANYTHING............You have, over the course of the few
> weeks at this NG EARNED those names, all by your little ole
> self..............believe me, I'm not the only one who thinks so, just the
> only one here that has publicly stated so...
Well then let me add my voice... Alexa you are acting like a spoiled,
jealous, petty b*tch. Your kind of nastiness isn't even interesting in
the way that car accidents make people slow down as they drive past.
Its just a total waste of bandwidth to have your posts show up at all.
Janie
mrs_cal
"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
> A perfect example of a non-sequitur.
non se·qui·tur
n.
1.An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or
evidence.
2.A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> >> Oh, by the way, don't even start critisizing my English, unless you
want
> > to
> >> come back to me with a reply in perfect German.
> >
> > Nena,
> >
> > She'd be an idiot to criticize, since you spoke very
well...........Thank
> > you for sticking up for me. I do appreciate it:-)
> >
> > Cal~
> >>
> >> Nena
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
In what way does that not follow logically from what preceded it?
In what waydoes that conclusion not follow the premise or evidence?
Perhaps you were thinking of another word??
YooperBoyka
to
> come back to me with a reply in perfect German.
>
Funny,....the few people I've met who spoke "perfect" English,
spoke it as a second language,....we USians butcher it.
--
CJ da Yooper
yoope...@yahoo.com
icq #96138398
".....you can always tell when you're in
God's country,...all the trees point to Him"
Mary Lou
>
>"Alexa" <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
>news:B6B34626.833A%infopr...@needtoknow.basis...
>> A perfect example of a non-sequitur.
>
>
>non se·qui·tur
>n.
>
>1.An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or
>evidence.
>
>2.A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it.
>
i still prefer the sequined turds.
Joseph W. Casey
> A perfect example of a non-sequitur.
>
Dear Alexa, You are apparently under the mistakin impression that you are
important. That people here really care about you and what you have to
say. Face it we don't. We care about the people who come here needing help
or those who come her wanting to help. You, on the other claw, are a self
important bitch who has nothing better to do then attack those this
newsgroup was intended to help. That is the very definition of a troll. If
ou don't like what people here have to say, then the obvious answer it for
you to go away.
BTW Having read your posts I can say that, if your husband left you, he
probably fled for the sake of his sanity.
Joseph
J
Steve Martin
And mine don't smell. My stbx has told me that several times when
discussing faults. <veg>
sam
Be careful that the toes you step on today do not belong to the body whose
a** you may have to kiss tomorrow. (author unknown)
joel...@ix.netcom.com
Evidently I am in the minority here, but I found useful ideas in what
you expressed here. At the very least, I felt productively
challenged. When a therapist proposes something to a patient, and
they discuss it calmly and examine its various points, that can be the
start of a normal helpful session. When the patient responds by
saying "What a jerk you are to say that. You are the worst therapist
in the wolrd." you can almost see the therapist thinking."Hmmm. this
is going to be a VERY VERY productive session." In that spirit, I'm
hoping to turn some attention back to the essense of Alexa's ideas.
To the rest of you: I was not a part of the chat or any previous
posts, so I am reading Alexa's comments absent of any other context.
With that in mind, please listen to a few more of my thoughts.
I have often tried to live up to the description of love that Alexa
put forward. I don't find it easy at all. The situation is not
always appropriate and even when it is, that level of selflessness
often eludes me despite my intentions. Of all the efforts related to
a 12 step approach to co-dependency, I found the hardest part was to
learn to pray for the person who was at the center of so much grief
and anxiety in my life. I did find, over time, that what it did was
to force me to see things from their point of view. That doeen't mean
that their point of view is necessarily well thought out or based on
facts. But it does change the way their behavior is seen.
I can't speak for others, but sometimes I find that when I am hurt by
someone else's actions, it is because I am assuming that it was done
by them with the kind of painful reaction I was having in mind as a
result. Sometimes to even assume that they knew it would have that
reaction, but chose to let it happen as a necessary price, is to
assume too much. A wounded animal lashes out at one who is trying to
free them or heal them, a drwoning victim will take their rescuer down
in the midst of their panic. This isn't what they intend, but it
happens.
Alexa, I'm wondering if you are willing to share some thoughts about
how easy you find it to always do in practice what you described in
your original post. I often fail in trying to live up to that kind of
ideal, but I try nonetheless. I also take my children's anger
personally when I am takng the role of parent and they don't like what
I find necessary to do for their long term welfare. I stumble in many
ways due to what I think you meant by "ego" in your post. Do you (or
anyone else) find the same challenges? If so, what are you doing that
seems to help over time so that your actions gradually become more
like your ideals?
Finally - To Mrs. Cal (my own version)
I understand why you are preserving the identity that makes your kids
comfortable. I'd also enjoy learning about you in ways that are
unique to you, and not your relationship with your ex. It would help
me to see you more fully as a multi-dimensional person as I read your
posts, and probably better point me towards deeper understanding of
what you have to say and what you've been through.
Would you mind sharing a little bit about who you were before you met
your ex? For example, the group now knows that Yooper and I are
musicians and it's a very deep part of what we love in the world
outside of relasionships, parenting, responsibilities, etc. You seem
to be a person who is strong in many ways: you are faithful, devoted,
determined. How do these traits express themselves when they are free
of the burdens of the emotions that surround a relationship? I hope
you don't mind this questioning. If you are like me, you may find it
helpful to remember why HE once fell in love with YOU, regardless of
how it has turned out. You can't change what he has done with his
life, but I suspect that you still have those qualities and they are
yours to keep and rejuvenate and nourish, no matter what his absence
has taken away from you. This is an area of your life which you
really can control.
So, what makes you feel great and want to howl at the moon?
mrs_cal
<joel...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3a8ea25c...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> Alexa-
>
> Evidently I am in the minority here, but I found useful ideas in what
> you expressed here. At the very least, I felt productively
> challenged
I guess it is the WAY she communicates, with her 'in your face' style. If
you could do a search on deja (which unfortunately, you can't) and read her
posts, all they would consist of
is basically attacks on people for their failings. One of her very first
posts was a very long diatribe on how the only people who receive support on
this group were the whiners.
And then last week, at the chat she was very obnoxious, made dumb, but
rather mean comments about others in this group, people who weren't there to
defend themselves....Then she started in on those of us who were there. It
just was a very uncomfortable situation. Like I said in a earlier post, my
reaction did seem over the top if you took just that one post from her to
me, by itself. My reaction , however, was to the totality of her behavior
since she's come to this group. Singled out by itself, it would appear that
*I* was attacking her. If you were to take all of the posts of hers, you
would know that this is just what she does. She singles someone, usually
another female (so far you guys seem to be left out of her attacks, but
maybe I've missed them) and she goes for blood, looking for the open wound
in a person, and just pours on the acid. She seems to have a knack for
finding the most vulnerable spot in someone's psyche, and goes in for the
kill. That is why I reacted the way I did.
> To the rest of you: I was not a part of the chat or any previous
> posts, so I am reading Alexa's comments absent of any other context.
> With that in mind, please listen to a few more of my thoughts.
>
> I have often tried to live up to the description of love that Alexa
> put forward. I don't find it easy at all. The situation is not
> always appropriate and even when it is, that level of selflessness
> often eludes me despite my intentions. Of all the efforts related to
> a 12 step approach to co-dependency, I found the hardest part was to
> learn to pray for the person who was at the center of so much grief
> and anxiety in my life. I did find, over time, that what it did was
> to force me to see things from their point of view. That doeen't mean
> that their point of view is necessarily well thought out or based on
> facts. But it does change the way their behavior is seen.
Points VERY WELL taken. But see, the way you have put these thoughts
together, in a non-inflammatory way, it's much easier to comprehend.
>
> I can't speak for others, but sometimes I find that when I am hurt by
> someone else's actions, it is because I am assuming that it was done
> by them with the kind of painful reaction I was having in mind as a
> result.
That is exactly what it appears to be happening with this woman. She has
found the 'open wound' on several of us here, and pounced. Like she enjoys
watching us 'bleed'.
>Sometimes to even assume that they knew it would have that
> reaction, but chose to let it happen as a necessary price, is to
> assume too much.
And normally I would agree with you. However, since she has done this to
several of us here, it would be a safe assumption, in this case.
>A wounded animal lashes out at one who is trying to
> free them or heal them, a drwoning victim will take their rescuer down
> in the midst of their panic. This isn't what they intend, but it
> happens.
To compare what this woman has said to me, and others here to a rescuer is
probably one of the worst analogies I have ever read here. She is more like
the person who set that trap for the animal, more like the person who tied
the cement boots onto that drowning victim.............
I understand you can only respond within the context that you are familiar
with. You are lucky you have not been the brunt of her scathing comments.
Thank you for taking the time to put some clarity to all of this..........
Cal~
>
I will respond to the next part in a separate post, so as to keep things
shorter........
Cal~
mrs_cal
"Steve Martin" <ste...@netusa1.net> wrote in message
news:94xj6.198$mv4....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
> "Mary Lou" <i2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hslj6.23618$Xj4.1...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com...
> > In article <B6B34626.833A%infopr...@needtoknow.basis>, Alexa
> <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote:
> > >A perfect example of a non-sequitur.
> >
> > A non-sequin turd?? Mine never have sequins on them...
>
> And mine don't smell. My stbx has told me that several times when
> discussing faults. <veg>
gee.......thanks for sharing that little bit of
info..........hehe...............
Mary Lou
before it dies?
mrs_cal
news:3a8ea25c...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
* Finally - To Mrs. Cal (my own version)
*
* Would you mind sharing a little bit about who you were before you met
* your ex? For example, the group now knows that Yooper and I are
* musicians and it's a very deep part of what we love in the world
* outside of relationships, parenting, responsibilities, etc.
That is such a hard thing to say. I met him when I was 15 years old. We
were best friends for years. I dated his best friend, he dated my sister
for a short time, when I was 16. I was engaged to his best friend, while my
stbx was away to college. My fiancé cheated on me, because I was a virgin,
and wanted to stay that way until marriage. Old-fashioned, maybe, but that
was what I believed.
We used to write 'dear abby' type letters to each other, and visit whenever
he came to town. Once when he was visiting town, I had received the news
that my grandfather had passed away. I was alone at home, when I found out.
When he heard the news, he came and stayed with me, until my Dad came home
from work. We were together ever since then. I was 19 years old.
I know now that I was not a fully formed person at the age. But of course
you couldn't tell me that in those days. I 'knew' everything, just like
every other teenager does.
I was going to school during the day, working nights to pay tuition, and
being the late seventies........spent my free time at the
Disco............lol........Our local club had one of those multi colored
light dance floors like in Saturday Night Fever.........lol....
From the time we hooked up, he would hitch-hike from his college to
my town(about an hour) every weekend to be together. For two
years..............
I KNEW he was the man I was really going to marry. I got my own apartment,
went to work during the week, and he would stay with me on the weekends, and
from the time he showed up on my doorstep to the minute he left, we were
either at a club (not disco.....he hated that), or we were in
bed.........sometimes we wouldn't even stop for food, lol......(I guess I
changed my mind at that point about waiting for marriage, maybe because I'd
already lost one b/f due to that belief?? I don't know.......maybe my
hormones got the better of me.....too many years ago to remember)
During the week, I would spend it with friends, playing cards, hanging
out.....like other teenagers/ young adults........I loved crafts and still
do. I had a habit of not finishing what I started, which was always kind of
a frustration for me, and for him. It has only been a few months since I
have found out why........I have recently been diagnosed as having adult
ADD...........I am not taking medication for it at the moment, but I'm
trying behavior modification methods instead......
We married one week after he graduated college...He was 22, I was 21......
I was raised to be a mother. There were 5 girls in my family.......NEVER
once in my childhood did the word college enter. We were going to get
married or join the army....lol............I choose to go to trade school,
instead which really ticked my Dad off. I had been in jROTC in high school,
and had won many, many awards........(I was the only girl in an battalion of
150 boys...........wooowoo......My colonel always made me ride upfront with
him, on those field trips.........And what field trips......this was in
Nuremberg Germany and we took some AMAZING trips............Once I spent a
week on an outward bound program in Bavaria..........what a WEEK...........
After 3 years of marriage we started trying to have kids..........after much
medical intervention, we were told we would probably never have
kids..........We were both despondent......gave up.......spent EVERY penny
we had, trying to fill the void.......went into debt, and then mother nature
had the last laugh............
Since then I have, unfortunately for me, devoted all my time to giving my
kids the stable, loving home I never had.......(WAY, WAY too much backstory
on that......alcoholic parents.......both......abusing father......would put
us in the tub before he belted us, as it would HURT MORE after our asses
were WET... Rather than deal with that....mom would just 'black out' for
days at a time........)
As I've gotten older, I have learned to love many things.........I love to
sew, made almost all of my children's clothing when they were young..When we
bought our current home, I made very fancy, smancy swags and jabots for all
of the downstairs windows........12 of them. Upstairs I made less fancy
smancy curtains for the remaining windows (13) Last year I designed and
implemented costumes for my sons percussion ensemble that went to the World
Championships and took first place in their class.........I personally made
45 of 66 costumes, in a matter of about 8 weeks............
As my kids have grown, I found myself watching a lot of sports, and when the
Patriots made it to the super bowl a few years ago, I MADE my stbx explain
football to me, before the game so I wouldn't bug him DURING the game with
all my questions..........Now, I love football so much, that any future SO
will hopefully have season tickets......lol.
When I watch sports, my family REALLY hates to be near me. I scream at the
TV, yell at the players....etc........Football is my #1 sport, followed
closely by soccer...........My daughter will sit closer to strangers, than
to me at Foxboro stadium during the Rev's games. (We live a few minutes
away from the stadium, in a nearby town). I completely embarrass her,
hehe........
She prefers me to go to her soccer games, because I cheer her and her
teammates on. Her Dad just sort of stands there..........
I have also learned to love good music.......most of my musical education is
due to my stbx. He has it in his blood, is self taught on guitar, and
bass......
It's in my kids blood too, and my Son is now a World Champion
percussionist........and he plays a multitude of different types of
percussion instruments. My daughter is a blue ribbon flutist........and
they both also play piano............Music has now become a very important
part of our entire families lives........I can't imagine not having music in
my life. I may not always know who is playing what, and I won't always be
able to name who or what I'm listening to, but aside from country music
(which is nails on a chalkboard to me, lol) and what my son and I call 'pop
drivel a la Backstreet Boys, and N'Stink.<g>....I will listen to, and
probably enjoy most anything....
Up until this divorce, my stbx and I did all the normal family things...We
had a camper and would take the kids camping 4 or 5 weeks a year (he's a
CFO, so he gets LOTS of vacation time) every summer. Some weeks would be to
the shore, some weeks would be to the Adirondacks.......Spent a good deal of
time visiting family.......We devoted ourselves to our children. Which in
hindsight was probably the cause of the demise of our marriage. Aside from
a few solo vacations together, we weren't behaving as a couple..........We
were parents who did everything with and for our kids.
In the last few years, I have spent it raising my kids, working as a
volunteer at the kids school, volunteer at the library, chairing the costume
committee. I have suffered some very major illnesses, but now since surgery
I am working on losing the weight I have gained. Although that is hard
since two of the medications I'm on are reeking havoc on me. One increases
the appetite, and one just plain causes weight gain.........that and the
recuperation from the surgery.......well.....you can just
imagine........ack.......please don't.................
I'd like to learn how to dance......real dancing......foxtrot and
such........seems like fun.......I'd like to learn how to play the
piano......when I can afford lessons I WILL take them.
I didn't mean for this to be a book on my life story..........the ending
isn't written yet, hopefully. I am now going to school to learn a new
career in computers.......I'm enjoying that. I have learned to enjoy the
time I have to myself, away from my family. I have realized that I put them
ahead of myself in every regard, and am learning about me again.........I'm
working on maintaining the friendships I have, and trying to make new
ones.........
I miss the human touch. I miss being held. I miss being kissed.....I miss
having someone to worry about me when I come home late......I'm sad that my
stbx didn't think our family was worth fighting for.......But I'm ready to
move forward now.......I don't think I will repeat the mistakes I made in
this marriage, of which there were many. I chose to ignore the warning
signs, and have paid a huge price for doing so.
I'm not sure how all this information will help, but if it does, well there
it is...................
Cal~
Alexa
<snipped for brevity, and because my reply takes too much space, as it is!>
> Alexa, I'm wondering if you are willing to share some thoughts about
> how easy you find it to always do in practice what you described in
> your original post.
Joel, thank you for your interest. I guess I'll begin to try and answer your
query with an account of the one and only (that I know of) time that a man
cheated on me. I had very strong feelings for this man, but the MOMENT I
learned he had cheated on me, my feelings for him changed. Honestly, I
instantly thought, "Why on earth would I want to continue offering my love
to someone who so clearly didn't value it?"
He waged quite a campaign to "win me back," including coming to my home with
a Priest, confessing, repenting, etc. I remember sitting around that kitchen
table, like it was yesterday, with the Priest as mediator, and I remember
reaching into my own heart to see if there was any spark of emotion left for
him...but there wasn't. And it wasn't a matter of not being willing to
forgive him, or being angry with him. It's just that his behavior completely
erased any longings I had for him. Although my respect for him was gone, I
did still sincerely wish him well.
Subsequently, when we bumped into each other at various social functions, I
enjoyed talking and laughing with him, clinking glasses in a toast to the
hosts, etc. I firmly believe that I was able to do so because I left the
relationship with my dignity in tact. I hadn't gone back for [possibly] more
pain, or tried to recreate feelings that were no longer there, or resumed a
relationship wherein I would probably always feel a tinge of insecurity.
Joel, I don't know where or how I got this sort of resolve. It's not
something that I "practice," or consciously affect. Perhaps it was something
that was taught to me very early on: that it is self-degrading to yearn for
someone who does not have the same desire for me.
I realize that marriages -- especially those where children are concerned --
cannot, and should not, be dismissed so easily. But once divorce is
inevitable, it's downright PATHETIC and self-degrading to pine for someone
who unequivocally states that s/he is no longer interested in the
relationship.
Only those who don't respect themselves continue to want to be with people
who blatantly reject them, in one form or another. And this is what I find
so frustrating, when I read posts from people who are so obviously in pain,
but who continue to desperately cling to the crumbs being thrown about by
the ones who hurt them.
It is NOT my intention to hurt these people any further. I just feel like
shaking them and shouting, "Hold your heads high! S/he doesn't want you
anymore?? Let them GO! Wish them well! And MEAN it!!! Because, goodness
knows, they will need your prayers somewhere down the road, if what they did
was truly cruel -- it will come back to them in spades!!"
> I stumble in many
> ways due to what I think you meant by "ego" in your post. Do you (or
> anyone else) find the same challenges? If so, what are you doing that
> seems to help over time so that your actions gradually become more
> like your ideals?
Joel, of COURSE I'm plagued by my ego! We all are -- it's part of the human
condition. At best, the ego is a requirement for survival. At worst, it a
wedge between ourselves and all of nature and the whole environment. On
average, though, its main tendency is to separate us from our fellows.
Even after the natural "taming of the ego," which occurs as we age and
mature -- and hopefully, continue to grow and work at improving ourselves --
I admit that my ego is still very much alive and well. I really have to make
a conscious effort to examine my motives and try to discern that which is
ego-driven (i.e., self-centered) from that which is altruistically-driven. I
often wish there were a core location for each (such as the head or the
heart), but -- in my case, at least -- I have found that my ego operates
from the head sometimes, and the heart other times, as does the altruistic
part of me bounce between the two. Therefore, it's crucial for me to dig
deeper to find the Truth about my motives in any given situation.
It doesn't help that my ego doesn't like it when I analyze my motives: it's
afraid I'll begin to ignore it, once I figure out what it's up to. And this
is where my good friends come in very handy, indeed. They will usually smell
the works of my ego wafting through, long before I get a pounding headache
from it. And once I'm reminded to take a good look at my motives, I must say
that I'm usually pretty good at getting honest with myself.
A typical examination-process, for me, begins like this:
(1) A reality-check on my immediate needs: do I have food, water, shelter,
transportation? Am I in reasonably good health? Can I pay this month's
bills? (Thankfully, the answers, thus far, have always been yes, and this
immediately gives way to a deep sigh of relief and a feeling of gratitude.)
(2) Does the situation at hand -- whatever it is I'm examining, that is --
involve me wanting a specific outcome? Do I want someone else to change
his/her behavior? Do I wish things were different? Am I trying to manipulate
someone or something?
(3) Am I disappointed about someone or something because my expectations
were different from the current resultant situation? If so, were my
expectations realistic? Am I pissed because I didn't get what I wanted or
expected?
(4) How have *I* contributed to the current situation? Was I trying to
control others in order to effect an outcome beneficial to myself? Was I too
self-absorbed to notice that I was stepping on another's toes?
(5) Have I been sacrificing my morals, standards, and principles, in order
to "please" others? Is "looking good" in front of others more important to
me than going against the flow and maintaining my own dignity? Am I so
hungry for others' acceptance that I find myself behaving in a manner
unacceptable to my self?
(6) Have I taken unreasonable offense at something someone has done or said?
Did someone confront me with a shortcoming of mine? Do I feel unduly
criticized, even though the critique was accurate?
If my ego is in play, I can usually spot it somewhere within 26, above.
Once a motive has been identified, the wind is pretty much blown out of my
ego's sails. The blinders are off, and my ego's selfishness has been
exposed. It is caught red-handed, and cannot argue with me. I proceed to
make restitution/amends, wherever possible, to those whom I may have harmed
at the self-centered whim of my ego.
For me, admitting that I've erred is not difficult. The trick is in
realizing that I've erred at all!
The ego is only as powerful as our ignorance of it.
'Don't know if any of this really addresses what you were asking, but maybe
it'll strike a chord SOMEwhere!
--Alexa
Mary Lou
Alexa, thank you for sharing your response to Joel here with the group, as
well. It helps a lot in understanding a person when it's possible to get at
least a general idea of where they are "coming from". One part i wish to
address is reposted below. I'm not including any personal details, my
response is general..
>(1) A reality-check on my immediate needs: do I have food, water, shelter,
>transportation? Am I in reasonably good health? Can I pay this month's
>bills? (Thankfully, the answers, thus far, have always been yes, and this
>immediately gives way to a deep sigh of relief and a feeling of gratitude.)
You say that the answers thus far have always been yes... You state your
gratitude, but realize they could change at any moment....
Try to take that into account when attempting to understand where others are
coming from... Not everyone is as fortunate as you have apparently been, so
far, in the above categories... Some of these things are within one's
control, but some are not... Different people have various ways to cope with
these things... You do admit that you have not experienced such things, and
are thankfor for that...
When a person does find themselves confronted with such things, chances are
they will respond with an expression of fear, frustration or helplessness to
fix the situation... Many people have done that here in this ng, and in
others.. I don't see it as a "woe is me" type of thing when they do that, but
rather as an expression of "this happened, i'm not sure how to cope with it"
and that they are asking for either help or maybe just needing to find out if
there's someone else who is going thru the same thing, so as not to feel so
alone in it...Maybe they just need their own faith kicked up a notch or two
(humans can build faith in one another, and when one finds it weak, others
can strengthen), but they definitely are not benefited by belittling...
Especially when it's a situation that was completely beyond their control...
There is nothing much less dignified than being pitied, and i am guessing
(although i may be wrong) that nobody here is looking for pity...
rather, they are looking for ideas from others who have dealt with the same
situation, or maybe they are just using this forum to vent their
frustration...
Alexa
> Excuse me Alexa but that is the biggest bunch of bullsh*t that I have heard
> in a long time. You do not "love" someone by wishing them the best in
> anything they want to do. That is indulgence, not love. Love in the
> highest form is the love that Jesus Christ had for us. And nowhere in his
> love would he wish the best for us as we went down a path of sin. He judged
> and rebuked many people to get them to turn from their ways, never sweetly
> saying, I love you so anything you do is wonderful and I support you wholly.
>
> But this way is not popular. It is so much more satisfying to agree with
> them so they won't think ill of you. The tougher way is to adhere to your
> vows and expect the same from your spouse. Ask yourself this, would you
> rather your children live in a world where there are rules and regulations
> and honor, or in a world where the only thing important is to make yourself
> happy.
>
> I did not mean to come on so strong, but my stbx tried to give me this same
> line of crap that I should willingly continue to be married to her and let
> her and mr. wonderful have their own special time. For if I could see how
> happy he made her, and if I truly loved her, how could I not want her to be
> happy. That is just plain selfish and makes a mockery of marriage and the
> covenant with God.
>
> My own 2 cents
>
> sam
>
> Don't push the red button, Never push the red button! Daffy Duck
Unconditional love does NOT suggest that one CONDONE unacceptable behavior.
I agree that it is healthy for us to have our boundaries, ethics, morals,
values, standards, and principles. But one can choose to remove oneself from
a situation or a person, while still bearing no ill-will towards that
person.
THAT is what I was talking about. I was NOT talking about hanging around
like a dope, accepting anything that our "beloved" wants to do. I was NOT
talking about being a goofy cheerleader, rah-rahing each and every [wrong]
choice our love-interest might make. I was NOT talking about accepting
unacceptable behavior. Few things are more pathetic than hearing someone who
gets beaten, cheated on, disparaged, saying "But I lo-o-o-o-o-ve him!" (Or,
"But I lo-o-o-o-o-ve her!")
We can continue to love even the worst dregs of society. It doesn't mean we
have to associate with them, or to sing their praises, or to let them walk
free, if they are dangerous to themselves or others. We can "love" them --
from a distance. We can still wish and hope that they will someday "hit the
jackpot," and learn what they need to learn, and develop, grow, change, and
become someone better than the person we had to turn away from in order to
protect ourselves (physically or emotionally).
'Sorry. 'Just thinking "out loud" . . .
--Alexa
Alexa
> Oh, by the way, don't even start critisizing my English, unless you want to
> come back to me with a reply in perfect German.
Nena, ich verstehe ein BISSCHEN Deutsch -- aber SEHR SCHWER! Meine Mutti ist
von Osterreich. Und Sie?
(Again, I SUCK at German, as you can easily tell!)
I agree with another poster (Yooper, from another thread, I think) who said
that the best English-language speakers/writers are those who studied it as
a second language. And THAT's what gets to me, folks! Why are we -- those of
us who speak/read/write/understand English as natives -- veritably
illiterate when it comes to communicating in our own tongue?!? 'Just
wondering . . . it's a stupid bone of contention of mine -- I'm going to
have to learn to get over it, with the help of y'all!
--Alexa
galaxies1973
On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Alexa wrote:
> Joel, thank you for your interest. I guess I'll begin to try and answer your
> query with an account of the one and only (that I know of) time that a man
> cheated on me. I had very strong feelings for this man, but the MOMENT I
> learned he had cheated on me, my feelings for him changed. Honestly, I
> instantly thought, "Why on earth would I want to continue offering my love
> to someone who so clearly didn't value it?"
I am glad that realization came so easily to you, but for most of us it
simply doesn't. My therapist spent months drilling that idea into my
thick skull - his mantra was "You can't want to be with someone who
doesn't want to be with you." Of course I recognized the logic of that
statement, but it took time to (a.) realize that my ex really, truly
*didn't* want to be with me and (b.) process that emotionally. I had a
pretty big disconnect between what I could see logically and what I felt.
This was both a strength and a weakness, as it allowed me to see things
logically even when my emotions were all over the place, but it would have
been nice if my heart could have listened to my head a little sooner and
saved me some pain.
I'm keeping that mantra, though, for future reference - both in
relationships outside of marriage, and in being sure I choose someone this
time who truly does want to be with me, this time for life.
> I realize that marriages -- especially those where children are concerned --
> cannot, and should not, be dismissed so easily. But once divorce is
> inevitable, it's downright PATHETIC and self-degrading to pine for someone
> who unequivocally states that s/he is no longer interested in the
> relationship.
I think you are right that longing for someone who doesn't want you is
self-degrading, and I do believe that one has the power to stop such
longing - just not necessarily in a short time frame. But I take issue
with your use of the word "pathetic", which I find unnecessarily
insulting. I know while I was still pining for my ex, I felt pathetic
enough and detested my inability to just get over him enough without
anyone else calling me pathetic. Of course it is your right to think
whatever you want, but stating it like that is, IMHO, cruel.
> Only those who don't respect themselves continue to want to be with people
> who blatantly reject them, in one form or another.
Continue for how long? A day? a week? a month? a year? When does one
become "pathetic"? And most of us are not wanting the person who is
rejecting us - we are wanting the person we once believed them to be.
Speaking for myself, I don't think continuing to want my ex (which is long
over, btw, though I may have used the present tense some of the time - not
in the mood for a grammar check just now) was a RESULT of poor
self-respect. It was a result of shock, of not having yet processed the
new reality. But continuing to pine for him CAUSED poor self-respect -
and realizing that is part of how I stopped.
Michelle
Mary Lou
> Why are we -- those of
>us who speak/read/write/understand English as natives -- veritably
>illiterate when it comes to communicating in our own tongue?!? 'Just
>wondering . . .
When preparing business or legal documents (which i did professionally in the
past, pre-motherhood) it's mandatory to use proper grammar, spelling, etc.
I may be totally CAPABLE of doing such (and even if i weren't, so what?) but
in newsgroups/chats i prefer to use my own spellings/grammar/whatever to keep
my writings UN-generic... Even if it means making up words... That's the
only way, since we can't hear or see one another, that a person's essence (the
"ME" about that person) can really come thru. (i know, "through") :-)
Too many "......" 's kinda indicates a lot of thots going on at that point...
(wouldn't come across with just one period and 2 spaces)... non-capitalizing
things that SHOULD be, and vice versa, also indicate some underlying stuff...
I can "see" more of the PERSON him/herself (oh yeah, and all those slashes,
they sometimes kinda for me indicate my different outlooks) when they don't
run thru a spell-checker.... There's a lot to be read between the lines,
letters and words... one may choose not to read them, if they wish... :-)
Alexa
Please, Michelle: in this instance, I used the word "pathetic" in the
context of "having a capacity to move one toward compassion; marked by
sorrow or melancholy; sad." I did not intend to use it in a pejorative
manner, and was not trying to belittle or insult anyone.
Insofar as timelines are concerned (you asked, "How long? A day? A week? A
month? A year?"), the first thing that comes to my mind in response is:
"How long do a man's legs have to be to reach the ground?"
:-)
--Alexa
galaxies1973
Please, Alexa: how exactly was one to know how you meant "pathetic"?
Since it was in all caps, with exclamation points, it read to me as a
pejorative term. I certainly believe your statement that it was not
intended as such, but please keep in mind that without the clues of tone
of voice and body language you may be easily misunderstood. Perhaps I
should have given you the benefit of the doubt; my apologies.
> Insofar as timelines are concerned (you asked, "How long? A day? A week? A
> month? A year?"), the first thing that comes to my mind in response is:
>
> "How long do a man's legs have to be to reach the ground?"
>
> :-)
So, then, as long as it takes? Then why be frustrated by those for whom
"as long as it takes" is a little longer than it would be for you, any
more than you are frustrated by some men having longer legs than others?
Michelle
Alexa
<snipped only for brevity>
> Then why be frustrated by those for whom
> "as long as it takes" is a little longer than it would be for you, any
> more than you are frustrated by some men having longer legs than others?
>
> Michelle
Michelle, I guess I tend to see all of us as children of the planet, and get
my dander up any time I see someone feeling despondent or left behind. I do
see how my efforts to be a "cheerleader" can be misconstrued -- I'm not very
adept at this, I admit -- I get carried away by my passions, and tend to be
the first one to yell, "You can do it, you can do it!!! Do it NOW!!!"
Rest assured that I'm harder on myself than anyone else . . . ;-)
Mary Lou
>> "How long do a man's legs have to be to reach the ground?"
Depends on how high the tree is he's hanging from..
Daisy
Daisy
www.geocities.com/asddaisy
"Mary Lou" <i2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5LGj6.28197$Xj4.1...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com...
galaxies1973
Well, that I can understand - though it's also gotten me into trouble. A
good friend of mine has struggled with depression, and initially I reacted
as I would want someone to react to me when I'm sad - and boy, did that
ever not help. She interpreted it as condescending. :(
Michelle
Joseph W. Casey
> On 2/17/01 8:54 PM, galaxies1973 (galax...@hotmail.com) asked:
>
> <snipped only for brevity>
>
>
> my dander up any time I see someone feeling despondent or left behind. I do
> see how my efforts to be a "cheerleader" can be misconstrued -- I'm not very
> adept at this, I admit -- I get carried away by my passions, and tend to be
> the first one to yell, "You can do it, you can do it!!! Do it NOW!!!"
So, your way to cheerlead it to badger, insult and attack? Maybe you
should try out for the XFL.
> Rest assured that I'm harder on myself than anyone else . . . ;-)
I neither know nor care how you treat yourself.
Joseph
Bryant
(H)
Mary Lou wrote in message
<5LGj6.28197$Xj4.1...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com>...
Joseph W. Casey
>
>>> "How long do a man's legs have to be to reach the ground?"
>
>
> Depends on how high the tree is he's hanging from..
Sure that's not 'how hit the tree he's being hanged from..."
YooperBoyka
Alexa <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote in message
<snippage to get to the point>
> Why are we -- those of
> us who speak/read/write/understand English as natives -- veritably
> illiterate when it comes to communicating in our own tongue?!? 'Just
> wondering . . . it's a stupid bone of contention of mine -- I'm going to
> have to learn to get over it, with the help of y'all!
>
OK,
Just an opinion here.
First, I believe *every* culture tends to mangle its own language
to a point. If you studied a second language in high school, then
took a trip to the country of its origin, it would be immediately
apparent that the speakers in said country would be almost
incomprehensable. *Everyone* butchers their own language.
Second, English, especially American English, is a constantly
changing and adapting language. It doesn't happen smoothly,
slang is invented, foreign words or phrases invade, and not
all stay with the language as it progresses.
Third, (and most important) a capitalistic society requires that
a majority understand the ads, news, and "literature" of the
culture. Bottom line,.........ya gotta sell to everyone.
Therefore, most things are aimed at the lowest common
denominator. The problem is, it becomes a vicious circle.
The dumber you write, the dumber your readers become.
A raising of one's reading level requires a challenge.
Newspapers (most) are written at a third grade level.
Do you really believe that most adults read at a third grade
level? Well,.....your local publisher does, and he only wants
to sell papers, not educate.
As I said, just an opinion.
YooperBoyka
>
> musicians and it's a very deep part of what we love in the world
> outside of relasionships, parenting, responsibilities, etc.
Joel,
I am deeply flattered. I was fortunate enough to spend my
adolescent years in a neighborhood where it seemed as
though every kid owned an instrument of some sort.
(mostly guitars, they got the girls) I was not, however,
fortunate enough to be blessed with the talent that would
allow me to rise above, or even to the level of my peers.
I have owned guitars. (even a really sweet Fender Jazzmaster
that I should never have let go of) I have plinked and plunked
at them. I even know a few chords by heart. On a good day,
I can even remember a song or two. I have spent time as a
roadie, guitar tech, stage tech, drum tech, sound man,
lighting tech, recording engineer,
even a road manager at one point,.....but
in no way, by the stretch of *anyones* imagination,
including my own, can I lay claim to being a musician.
It just ain't gonna fly.
I repeat,.....I am NOT a musician.
I sure as hell *wish* I was,.....that would be cool.
Whew! If anyone I knew had read that, I would never
hear the end of it.
mrs_cal
"YooperBoyka" <cjdontlike@spam> wrote in message
news:t8vev5l...@corp.supernews.com...
>but
> in no way, by the stretch of *anyones* imagination,
> including my own, can I lay claim to being a musician.
> It just ain't gonna fly.
> I repeat,.....I am NOT a musician.
> I sure as hell *wish* I was,.....that would be cool.
A musician at heart? I think so:-)
YooperBoyka
mrs_cal <mrs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RtRj6.1394$DS3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "YooperBoyka" <cjdontlike@spam> wrote in message
> news:t8vev5l...@corp.supernews.com...
> >but
> > in no way, by the stretch of *anyones* imagination,
> > including my own, can I lay claim to being a musician.
> > It just ain't gonna fly.
> > I repeat,.....I am NOT a musician.
> > I sure as hell *wish* I was,.....that would be cool.
>
> A musician at heart? I think so:-)
>
:-)
Joseph W. Casey
> <joel...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3a8ea25c...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
>>
> I repeat,.....I am NOT a musician.
> I sure as hell *wish* I was,.....that would be cool.
> Whew! If anyone I knew had read that, I would never
> hear the end of it.
> --
> CJ da Yooper
Well, as John Lee Hooker said to me, "Bein a musician is as much in the
heart as in head or the hands." So, Brudda, that puts you at least a third
of the way there.
MurphyTD
>>Only those who don't respect themselves continue to want to be with people
who blatantly reject them, in one form or another. And this is what I find
so frustrating, when I read posts from people who are so obviously in pain,
but who continue to desperately cling to the crumbs being thrown about by
the ones who hurt them.<<
Something here jumped out at me. You describe having your feelings for the guy
who cheated on you as having changed immediately. That is a good description of
you, though you say that you can't exactly say why it is how you are.
But here you go on to say "Only those who don't respect themselves continue to
want to be with people who blatantly reject them."
Absolutely? With certainty? "Only" those...?
You say that for you the feelings changed instantly. But that does not mean it
is pathologic when it doesn't change that way. There are a million and one ways
to see it differently, and have it be healthy and good.
I viewed my wife's infidelity with anger, compassion, fear, sadness, rage and
understanding - all of it. I learned that if you are patient, and wait, that
the pendulum can swing back when your wife loves another. I learned to my
sadness that the pendulum can swing back and you are in a place where you don't
want to reconcile. I k now someone else who waited out her husband's 3 year
long affair, and their marriage survived (25 more years now). There is no
"right" way to feel about infidelity.
And the way that you have for dealing with in fidelity may not be healthy,
either. You may be morally strong, or emotionally bankrupt and dead to the
feelings of grief that normally engulf someone betrayed. I could attack you for
an assumed lack of character (lack of forgiveness or determination to stick out
the "rough times") just as easily as you might attack someone for a lack of
character (whining and pining for someone who degrades them and showing a lack
of self-respect).
It's all perspective - and I believe it comes with growth. Growth means looking
at how we deal with this crap and throwing out our asumptions, not only about
others, but even about ourselves.
I am catching up on the boards (sort of) after some time away, and it seems
that some are angry at you for going for the jugular. Maybe that is not your
intent, but it might be worth looking at why that is so.
Tim
Lauri
>I am catching up on the boards (sort of) after some time away,
Welcome back, Tim. I've missed you posts. Hope that things are going
well for you.
Lauri in WA
Janie
<murp...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> It's all perspective - and I believe it comes with growth. Growth means
> looking
> at how we deal with this crap and throwing out our asumptions, not only about
> others, but even about ourselves.
>
> I am catching up on the boards (sort of) after some time away, and it seems
> that some are angry at you for going for the jugular. Maybe that is not your
> intent, but it might be worth looking at why that is so.
>
> Tim
Heya Tim :-)
Good to see you, and I appreciate your take on this particular topic.
Many of us, as you observed, got fairly hot under the collar at the
insults and contemptuous statements for anyone who handled it
differently than Alexa claims she handled things. Personally, I think
all the things Alexa has such a fixation on - degradation, IQ, to name
just two - are perceived weakenesses she sees and hates in herself.
Just a wild guess though, as always I could be wrong.
Welcome back, and tell us how much fun you've had away!
Janie
--
The reason why rivers and seas receive the homage of a hundred mountain
streams is that they keep below them. -- Lao Tse
Barb Nieman
days.
First, Joel, thanks for writing this. Although directed towards a
completely different situation, your thoughts were a great help to me with
*my* current situation. And in the process, it's helped me be a better
mother to my son, who's struggling mightily at the moment in his
relationship with his dad.
To Mrs.Cal: thanks for sharing a bit more about your life pre-marriage with
us. It helped me understand you a lot better. We come from similar
backgrounds, which helps explain my penchant to respond to your posts in
ways designed to get you to think differently about your current situation.
Where you are right now reminds me of someone I knew in group therapy many
years ago. She once described where she was in her understanding of things
in her life as "I know it *here* [pointing to her head], but I haven't
swallowed it yet -- I don't feel it here [pointing to her gut]." That
really got to me -- I knew exactly what she meant. Just like food has to
digest before it gets into your bloodstream and provides the nutrients you
need to survive, knowledge and experience must be fully internalized before
it can have an effect on your behavior. The good news is this: your head
has begun to notice the difference between your thoughts and feelings and
reality. Keep at it -- eventually, you'll "swallow" this and the digestive
process will take over.
To Alexia: you've got a lot of positive things to say. It's just that
sometimes you present them in ways that are difficult for people to hear. I
suspect you're one of those blunt people who come across better in person
than in writing. Also, it might help you to know that there are people
whose upbringing didn't allow them to recognize unhealthy situations as
quickly as you do. I'm one of those people. I grew up mistaking being
needed for being loved. In many ways, I've learned to overcome my unhealthy
programming. Still, to this day when I'm presented with an emotionally
difficult situation, I will often react inside in the old way -- even though
the response the outside world sees is completely different. *I* can tell
there's a delayed reaction. Not dissimilar to someone who grew up speaking
one language but has spent many years of her life speaking another -- the
brain never completely forgets the old pathways.
At any rate, thanks to Joel for steering this away from a bitter fight and
into more productive discussion.
Barb
<joel...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3a8ea25c...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> Alexa-
>
> Evidently I am in the minority here, but I found useful ideas in what
> you expressed here. At the very least, I felt productively
> challenged. When a therapist proposes something to a patient, and
> they discuss it calmly and examine its various points, that can be the
> start of a normal helpful session. When the patient responds by
> saying "What a jerk you are to say that. You are the worst therapist
> in the wolrd." you can almost see the therapist thinking."Hmmm. this
> is going to be a VERY VERY productive session." In that spirit, I'm
> hoping to turn some attention back to the essense of Alexa's ideas.
>
> To the rest of you: I was not a part of the chat or any previous
> posts, so I am reading Alexa's comments absent of any other context.
> With that in mind, please listen to a few more of my thoughts.
>
> I have often tried to live up to the description of love that Alexa
> put forward. I don't find it easy at all. The situation is not
> always appropriate and even when it is, that level of selflessness
> often eludes me despite my intentions. Of all the efforts related to
> a 12 step approach to co-dependency, I found the hardest part was to
> learn to pray for the person who was at the center of so much grief
> and anxiety in my life. I did find, over time, that what it did was
> to force me to see things from their point of view. That doeen't mean
> that their point of view is necessarily well thought out or based on
> facts. But it does change the way their behavior is seen.
>
> I can't speak for others, but sometimes I find that when I am hurt by
> someone else's actions, it is because I am assuming that it was done
> by them with the kind of painful reaction I was having in mind as a
> result. Sometimes to even assume that they knew it would have that
> reaction, but chose to let it happen as a necessary price, is to
> assume too much. A wounded animal lashes out at one who is trying to
> free them or heal them, a drwoning victim will take their rescuer down
> in the midst of their panic. This isn't what they intend, but it
> happens.
>
> Alexa, I'm wondering if you are willing to share some thoughts about
> how easy you find it to always do in practice what you described in
> your original post. I often fail in trying to live up to that kind of
> ideal, but I try nonetheless. I also take my children's anger
> personally when I am takng the role of parent and they don't like what
> I find necessary to do for their long term welfare. I stumble in many
> ways due to what I think you meant by "ego" in your post. Do you (or
> anyone else) find the same challenges? If so, what are you doing that
> seems to help over time so that your actions gradually become more
> like your ideals?
>
>
> Finally - To Mrs. Cal (my own version)
>
> I understand why you are preserving the identity that makes your kids
> comfortable. I'd also enjoy learning about you in ways that are
> unique to you, and not your relationship with your ex. It would help
> me to see you more fully as a multi-dimensional person as I read your
> posts, and probably better point me towards deeper understanding of
> what you have to say and what you've been through.
>
> Would you mind sharing a little bit about who you were before you met
> your ex? For example, the group now knows that Yooper and I are
> musicians and it's a very deep part of what we love in the world
> outside of relasionships, parenting, responsibilities, etc. You seem
> to be a person who is strong in many ways: you are faithful, devoted,
> determined. How do these traits express themselves when they are free
> of the burdens of the emotions that surround a relationship? I hope
> you don't mind this questioning. If you are like me, you may find it
> helpful to remember why HE once fell in love with YOU, regardless of
> how it has turned out. You can't change what he has done with his
> life, but I suspect that you still have those qualities and they are
> yours to keep and rejuvenate and nourish, no matter what his absence
> has taken away from you. This is an area of your life which you
> really can control.
>
> So, what makes you feel great and want to howl at the moon?
>
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:36:51 -0500, Alexa
> <infopr...@needtoknow.basis> wrote:
>
> >Don't kid yourself: your feelings about the ex are NOT about your
purported
> >"love" for him -- they are entirely about your EGO.
> >
> >TRUE LOVE is not about receiving something in return. TRUE LOVE is about
> >about GIVING, with no strings attached. The fact that you feel your
husband
> >should "owe" you something just because you took care of the children on
> >Valentine's Day will only serve to add to his disgust of you.
> >
> >Men -- and women -- are really TURNED OFF by desperate mates! You insist
on
> >being the "Mrs."; you are suspicious of the in-laws holiday greetings to
> >you.
> >
> >If you really love the man who was your husband -- LOVE, in the HIGHEST
FORM
> >-- then you will wish him the best and hope that he finds that for which
he
> >is looking.)
> >
> >If you REALLY care about him, then you will say to yourself, "I wish I
> >could've provided that for him, but if if he finds more happiness with
> >someone else, then so be it.
> >
> >THAT is LOVE.
> >
> >THAT is DEVOTION.
> >
> >--A.
> >
>
Alexa
> Pardon me for jumping in:
>
>> Only those who don't respect themselves continue to want to be with people
>> who blatantly reject them, in one form or another. And this is what I find
>> so frustrating, when I read posts from people who are so obviously in pain,
>> but who continue to desperately cling to the crumbs being thrown about by
>> the ones who hurt them.
>
> Something here jumped out at me. You describe having your feelings for the guy
> who cheated on you as having changed immediately. That is a good description
> of
> you, though you say that you can't exactly say why it is how you are.
>
> But here you go on to say "Only those who don't respect themselves continue to
> want to be with people who blatantly reject them."
>
> Absolutely? With certainty? "Only" those...?
Well, Tim, not with COMPLETE certainty... :-)
I can readily understand the discrepancies that you saw among my statements:
first hearing me say that I didn't know "exactly" why my feelings changed
immediately [upon learning that I was betrayed by a love-interest of mine];
and then hearing me conclude that it must be "only those who don't respect
themselves..."
It's SO difficult for one to explain, especially when one doesn't wish to
"enflame" others. But since you have confronted me with it: here's a similar
scenario that may better illustrate how I jumped to that conclusion:
When I have to go "potty" these days, I do not have to first THINK about WHY
I would choose to go to a bathroom rather than soiling my panties. I just
head to the nearest loo and do my thing. It has become NATURAL for me to do
so. I do not at ALL remember my parents teaching me to go to the toilet
instead of making in my diaper, but I assume that -- at one point or another
-- they DID have to train me... I do remember a few monologues regarding
hygiene and thus, but not really too much...
And, similarly, it remains equally vague to me as to how or why or when my
parents taught me to respect myself. It seemed like such a mumbo-jumbo back
then... But something sunk through... And for that I am eternally grateful.
I am still AWFUL at accepting others, though -- and that is what I've been
working on for years (going on year four)...
Yes, certainly something at which I should look -- and do. I continuously
strive for self-improvement. However, I never gauge myself through the likes
of mediocrity or bourgeoise.
> Tim
MurphyTD
strive for self-improvement. However, I never gauge myself through the likes
of mediocrity or bourgeoise.<<
Huh?
What do those terms have to do with what we are talking about?
We are talking about grief, betrayal and self respect. Such has little to do
with class or intelligence - though perhaps a little in tangential ways.
I am not so interested in whether or not you think others are weak or not, or
whether or not you grow from the process of examining why you seem offensive to
some folks. That is your task or tasks.
What got my interest is how you view the simple act of letting go as one of
strength, as something that you learned early in life, and which you imbue with
"strength", presumably of character. And from that comes the alternative, which
is that to *not* do that is to "whine", or "complain", or wallow in pity, or to
show a lack of self respect.
It sems that your understanding of both sides of the coin is limited, IMHO.
Your understanding of what derives others is limited in it's imagination of
alternative explanations regarding the meanings behind it. And your
understanding of yourself, as heroic as it comes across to you, seems limited
to me.
If a man came to you with a priest to beg forgiveness, and you "felt nothing",
that *may* not be exactly healthy. It may indeed be "the way it just is", but
that does not mean it represents healthy emotional intelligence.
Seems this is the message that more than one person is trying to give you in
one way or another, but you won't hear.
Tim
MurphyTD
hot babes hinding under my sheets. I am getting a little more work done lately
though (s).
Tim
MurphyTD
Welcome back, and tell us how much fun you've had away!
<<
Discovering ways to figure out whether or not i was "right" about another
poster took up too much energy. So chosing to not engage has been very
refreshing.
Um... I watched the Tarzan video tonight with my boy - is that exciting enough?
Tim
Fido
Alexa
> I'm a little late responding to this thread; been offline for the past few
> days.
>
> First, Joel, thanks for writing this.
<snipped for brevity>
>
> To Mrs.Cal: thanks for sharing a bit more about your life pre-marriage with
> us.
<again, snipped only for brevity>
> To Alexia: you've got a lot of positive things to say. It's just that
> sometimes you present them in ways that are difficult for people to hear. I
> suspect you're one of those blunt people who come across better in person
> than in writing.
Thanks, Barb; and additional thanks for giving me the "benefit of the doubt"
-- although I readily admit that I am probably equally as direct in
conveying my thoughts/opinions in person, as I am in writing.
> Also, it might help you to know that there are people
> whose upbringing didn't allow them to recognize unhealthy situations as
> quickly as you do.
I very definitely recognize that there are such persons, and in this
newsgroup, I've found that there is an abundance of tender support for
those. Here, at least, there seems to be no lack of gentler support. And
that's a very GOOD thing, I think!
I do believe, though, that there must be a few hard-heads like myself out
there -- ones who may actually welcome hearing the old
"pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps" routine . . .
It boils down to a matter of "balance," I think. I was raised in the latter
extreme; so, of course, the kind words of the soft souls here are greatly
appreciated. However, I can see myself becoming intoxicated by the
"understanding" and "empathy" of others; to the point where I think I could
actually be convinced to view myself as the "victim."
My own belief structure is one that revolves around that idea of "balance
and moderation" -- so whenever I see something skewing one way or the other,
I guess I tend to pour more weight on the side that is being
neglected/ignored. It's far from a matter of being "wishy-washy" -- it's
more a matter of recognizing that there are [at leasst] two versions to
every scenario, and that the search for the "Real Truth" in any situation is
facilitated and expedited by arguing AGAINST one's own theories/hypotheses.
Contrary to popular belief, Truth is NOT based on supporting empirical
evidence, alone. Truth (in science, at least) is based on the inability to
DISprove that something is true. Most scientists know that the first step in
proving something they suspect is true, is to do everything and anything
possible to prove it's NOT true.
But, I digress . . . please forgive me.
> I'm one of those people. I grew up mistaking being
> needed for being loved.
Oh, Barb! I am oh-so-familiar with this message, as well! And, in the pure
sense, this is not entirely erroneous thinking: I, for one, truly TREASURE
and LOVE the people who have "been there" for me when I've "needed" them. I
shall not forget their selflessness and willingness to lend a helping hand
to me -- but I also do not feel that I should be "eternally indebted" to
them, nor they to me, when I've acted in a similar fashion towards those
who've "needed" me, and for whom I've "been there."
It sounds like the word "love" may have been defined in a relatively
one-dimensional manner during your formative years.
Maybe it's as simple as the fact that I spoke more than one language at an
early age, but I learned that the word "love" was/is multifaceted: I learned
there were different concepts associated with the word "love": one had love
for neighbors, love for schoolmates, love for the people starving in
Ethiopia, love for pets, love for parents, love for the cutester at school,
love for a favorite color, love for an inspiring teacher . . . "
The word "love" did not automatically connote notions of "romance," or
"forever."
'Very much looking forward to hearing any feedback you may have on this,
Barb -- and anyone and everyone else, of course!
--Alexa