no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wolfie of confuzzled
no way
nu unh
nope nope nope
Shiyiya
maybe charlie would be less furious about everything and saying that t
is a liar if she got her say too?
understand not wanting though.
astri
that wolfie saying that?
or charlie?
or both?
-- astri
======================
to email send to astri
======================
at volcano dot org
======================
wolfie of confuzzled
:/
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>
>> t says she wants to talk to charlie in person next session
>>
>> no way
>> nu unh
>> nope nope nope
>
> that wolfie saying that?
me
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>
>>> t says she wants to talk to charlie in person next session
>>>
>>> no way
>>> nu unh
>>> nope nope nope
>>
>> that wolfie saying that?
>
> me
k
confuzzled
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>
>>>> t says she wants to talk to charlie in person next session
>>>>
>>>> no way
>>>> nu unh
>>>> nope nope nope
>>>
>>> that wolfie saying that?
>>
>> me
>
> k
>
is still kinda early
gonna take benedryl again
we only took 2 last night
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>> astri wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> t says she wants to talk to charlie in person next session
>>>>>
>>>>> no way
>>>>> nu unh
>>>>> nope nope nope
>>>>
>>>> that wolfie saying that?
>>>
>>> me
>>
>> k
>>
> think maybe we gonna go bed
> is still kinda early
> gonna take benedryl again
> we only took 2 last night
k
2 ok
not more than 2
wolfie of confuzzled
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>> astri wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, wolfie of confuzzled wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> t says she wants to talk to charlie in person next session
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no way
>>>>>> nu unh
>>>>>> nope nope nope
>>>>>
>>>>> that wolfie saying that?
>>>>
>>>> me
>>>
>>> k
>>>
>> think maybe we gonna go bed
>> is still kinda early
>> gonna take benedryl again
>> we only took 2 last night
>
> k
>
> 2 ok
> not more than 2
>
tired
maybe we get sick enough don't gotta go work tomorrow
sorry shouldn't even be talking about this
we fine
astri
> tired
> maybe we get sick enough don't gotta go work tomorrow
> sorry shouldn't even be talking about this
> we fine
regrets
jill
I like it. charlie has a right to say what needs to be said too. Esp.
cause it sounds like the t'pist knows what charlie says isn't what
_you_ think/feel/believe so it's not like you are gonna be blamed for
it or anything. Plus, I think charlie as good stuff to say sometimes.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
ji...@tuells.org
confuzzled
> In article <7o5u48F3...@mid.individual.net>,
> wolfie of confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> t says she wants to talk to charlie in person next session
>>
>> no way
>> nu unh
>> nope nope nope
>
> I like it. charlie has a right to say what needs to be said too. Esp.
> cause it sounds like the t'pist knows what charlie says isn't what
> _you_ think/feel/believe so it's not like you are gonna be blamed for
> it or anything. Plus, I think charlie as good stuff to say sometimes.
>
> Rainbow Colors (Jill)
:/
confuzzled
cant start a new thread
shouldn't be posting this at all
we wondering
someone is wondering
is new t making us worse?
think maybe
or were we getting wrose and thats why we found new t?
who would we call if we in crisis? new t or pdoc t?
but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
and what would constitute a crisis
and if we did soemthing just before appt isnt that just attention seeking
we always used to pull it togetther before pdoc t. was a reason to not
self-h*rm or somethng cuz we dint want to have to tell or for it to seem
attention seeking or about him
we should delete this
mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
sorry
astri
> sorry
> cant start a new thread
> shouldn't be posting this at all
>
> we wondering
> someone is wondering
>
> is new t making us worse?
> think maybe
> or were we getting wrose and thats why we found new t?
>
> who would we call if we in crisis? new t or pdoc t?
> but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
> and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
>
> and what would constitute a crisis
>
> and if we did soemthing just before appt isnt that just attention
> seeking we always used to pull it togetther before pdoc t. was a
> reason to not self-h*rm or somethng cuz we dint want to have to tell
> or for it to seem attention seeking or about him
maybe if you need attention you could allow yourself to ask for it
without feeling like you have to *do* something awful in order to
deserve it (at which point you'd decide you didn't deserve it anyway,
cuz you'd manipulated to get it).
> we should delete this
>
> mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
>
> sorry
this was going on before you found new t and think that's why you
looked.
jill
confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>sorry
>cant start a new thread
>shouldn't be posting this at all
>
>we wondering
>someone is wondering
>
>is new t making us worse?
Hmm, well there is the 'it gets worse before it gets better' logic.
There is some truth in that as old coping skills are changed for new,
more powerful and functional skills. But skills have to be learned and
practiced and ingrained before they will kick in automatically so
there is that 'lull' period where you don't use the old ones
automatically and you can't use the new ones automatically yet...
>think maybe
>or were we getting wrose and thats why we found new t?
As I recall, you were getting worse and that was part of what prompted
you to find the new t'pist. Unless I'm confusing you with scattered.
Why the heck I do that I don't know *wry grin* but I do. You,
scattered, and cometz; sometimes details of any of you get blurred
together in my head and I think 'um, did this person say that or was
it that person?' Anyway, as I recall you weren't doing well so you
decided to check out this new t'pist.
>who would we call if we in crisis? new t or pdoc t?
Whomever would most reasonably get back to you the quickest. I would
probly call my bestest t'pist before I would call the one I worked
with in CO. The one in IL would probly call back more quickly. Not
that he would be able to help all that much. He lives 1,000 miles away
and hasn't talked to me in person since 1994.
>but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
>and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
Yeah, I remember well the day one of us finally decided to give this
'call if you need to' thing a try. What a weird bit of risk taking
that was! 'Call, no DON'T, stop acting like a baby, nothing is going
to help anyway, CALL ALREADY!, stop telling me what to do, there
really isn't anything wrong anyway so what's the big deal, this is a
really dumb idea, look, give me the phone and I'LL do it!...' probly
had 1/2 and hour of loud internal yelling and arguing and a seriously
massive headache before one of us just dialed the dang numbers.
The t'pist was so unphased and calm like we called him all the time
and he had been waiting for the call. :P
>and what would constitute a crisis
That's a tricky thing to answer. Obviously if you are going to hurt
the body or someone else, call. If you feel like your mind is going in
to a million pieces very fast (not a pleasant experience!), call. If
you are so panicked and freaked out you feel like you might literally
explode, call. Less intense than that... I dunno. We just finally one
day said 'this is stupid!' and tried it. It worked well for us *shrug*
>and if we did soemthing just before appt isnt that just attention seeking
>we always used to pull it togetther before pdoc t. was a reason to not
>self-h*rm or somethng cuz we dint want to have to tell or for it to seem
>attention seeking or about him
Hmm, my take on self harm is usually that it's a way to let off steam
or building up pressure or something. The 'need' just builds until you
have to do something about it. It's not about getting attention
because most of the time we (people who do this) try very hard for it
to not be found out. Kind of silly to think of doing something to get
attention and then hide it from everyone who might give you that
attention *grin*
>we should delete this
>
>mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
>
>sorry
I don't think the t'pist is making you worse. I think that t'py is
unbalancing a carefully concocted tower of weirdness and now that
tower is tipping and wobbling and you have to learn to make it
balanced using different skills. In the long run that will be a very
good thing, but in the short run you are nervously adjusting this
while that wobbles, then grabbing at that while the one over there
teeters, so you carefully reach out to stabilize _that_ while
something else starts to shake and so on.
Maybe talk to t'pist about in the moment coping skills? I'm sure there
are some that would work short term.
Juniper
ji...@tuells.org (jill) wrote:
> I think that t'py is
> unbalancing a carefully concocted tower of weirdness and now that
> tower is tipping and wobbling and you have to learn to make it
> balanced using different skills. In the long run that will be a very
> good thing, but in the short run you are nervously adjusting this
> while that wobbles, then grabbing at that while the one over there
> teeters, so you carefully reach out to stabilize _that_ while
> something else starts to shake and so on.
I think this is an excellent description of what can happen when one
gets into effective therapy.
Juniper
--
Hearts cannot be bound to orthodoxy.
confuzzled
> In article <7obf48F...@mid.individual.net>,
> confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> sorry
>> cant start a new thread
>> shouldn't be posting this at all
>>
>> we wondering
>> someone is wondering
>>
>> is new t making us worse?
>
> Hmm, well there is the 'it gets worse before it gets better' logic.
> There is some truth in that as old coping skills are changed for new,
> more powerful and functional skills. But skills have to be learned and
> practiced and ingrained before they will kick in automatically so
> there is that 'lull' period where you don't use the old ones
> automatically and you can't use the new ones automatically yet...
>
>> think maybe
>> or were we getting wrose and thats why we found new t?
>
> As I recall, you were getting worse and that was part of what prompted
> you to find the new t'pist. Unless I'm confusing you with scattered.
are we like scattered? well, maybe because of the names. scattered and
confuzzled sort of similar.
don't think it was scattered though. was us.
> Why the heck I do that I don't know *wry grin* but I do. You,
> scattered, and cometz; sometimes details of any of you get blurred
> together in my head and I think 'um, did this person say that or was
> it that person?' Anyway, as I recall you weren't doing well so you
> decided to check out this new t'pist.
>
k
>> who would we call if we in crisis? new t or pdoc t?
>
> Whomever would most reasonably get back to you the quickest. I would
> probly call my bestest t'pist before I would call the one I worked
> with in CO. The one in IL would probly call back more quickly. Not
> that he would be able to help all that much. He lives 1,000 miles away
> and hasn't talked to me in person since 1994.
>
wow. you'd call that t even though you haven't seen him in a long time?
>> but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
>> and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
>
> Yeah, I remember well the day one of us finally decided to give this
> 'call if you need to' thing a try. What a weird bit of risk taking
> that was! 'Call, no DON'T, stop acting like a baby, nothing is going
> to help anyway, CALL ALREADY!, stop telling me what to do, there
> really isn't anything wrong anyway so what's the big deal, this is a
> really dumb idea, look, give me the phone and I'LL do it!...' probly
> had 1/2 and hour of loud internal yelling and arguing and a seriously
> massive headache before one of us just dialed the dang numbers.
>
heh! could totally see us doing that
> The t'pist was so unphased and calm like we called him all the time
> and he had been waiting for the call. :P
>
and did it help?
>> and what would constitute a crisis
>
> That's a tricky thing to answer. Obviously if you are going to hurt
> the body or someone else, call. If you feel like your mind is going in
> to a million pieces very fast (not a pleasant experience!), call. If
> you are so panicked and freaked out you feel like you might literally
> explode, call. Less intense than that... I dunno. We just finally one
> day said 'this is stupid!' and tried it. It worked well for us *shrug*
>
but... but... we can't call a t every time we might hurt the body. we
don't hurt the body very much anymore. is just little hurts. that's not
worth calling a t over.
and because we have to take care of the pets we can't ever do something
so bad to self that would put us in h*spital or d*ad. so is just little
hurts and bad feelings and see, we've maybe sort of felt the million
pieces things but we got through that without calling a t so it doesn't
seem right to bother a t with it.
>> and if we did soemthing just before appt isnt that just attention seeking
>> we always used to pull it togetther before pdoc t. was a reason to not
>> self-h*rm or somethng cuz we dint want to have to tell or for it to seem
>> attention seeking or about him
>
> Hmm, my take on self harm is usually that it's a way to let off steam
> or building up pressure or something. The 'need' just builds until you
> have to do something about it. It's not about getting attention
> because most of the time we (people who do this) try very hard for it
> to not be found out. Kind of silly to think of doing something to get
> attention and then hide it from everyone who might give you that
> attention *grin*
>
ja. guess we mostly know other ways to let off pressure now
only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted us to show our arm. :P
>> we should delete this
>>
>> mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
>>
>> sorry
>
> I don't think the t'pist is making you worse. I think that t'py is
> unbalancing a carefully concocted tower of weirdness and now that
> tower is tipping and wobbling and you have to learn to make it
> balanced using different skills. In the long run that will be a very
> good thing, but in the short run you are nervously adjusting this
> while that wobbles, then grabbing at that while the one over there
> teeters, so you carefully reach out to stabilize _that_ while
> something else starts to shake and so on.
>
k
<big sigh>
> Maybe talk to t'pist about in the moment coping skills? I'm sure there
> are some that would work short term.
>
ok. maybe we will ask her about this
astri
> well, charlie initiatied the contact in the email. charlie wanted her
> view point heard. think maybe charlie would have liked to t yesterday
> but was fighting about that and maybe charlie is a bit scared of
> talking to t so she backed off. dunno
maybe charlie and others can have email conversations with t first
and then maybe eventually it won't seem so wierd to meet her
jill
confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>jill wrote:
>> In article <7obf48F...@mid.individual.net>,
>> confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> sorry
>>> cant start a new thread
>>> shouldn't be posting this at all
>>>
>>> we wondering
>>> someone is wondering
>>>
>>> is new t making us worse?
>>
>> Hmm, well there is the 'it gets worse before it gets better' logic.
>> There is some truth in that as old coping skills are changed for new,
>> more powerful and functional skills. But skills have to be learned and
>> practiced and ingrained before they will kick in automatically so
>> there is that 'lull' period where you don't use the old ones
>> automatically and you can't use the new ones automatically yet...
>>
>yes. think is much like that. is really tiring
>
>>> think maybe
>>> or were we getting wrose and thats why we found new t?
>>
>> As I recall, you were getting worse and that was part of what prompted
>> you to find the new t'pist. Unless I'm confusing you with scattered.
>
>are we like scattered? well, maybe because of the names. scattered and
>confuzzled sort of similar.
>
>don't think it was scattered though. was us.
I know. It just takes me a bit to remember which one of you I"m
'talking' to. I dunno why.
>> Why the heck I do that I don't know *wry grin* but I do. You,
>> scattered, and cometz; sometimes details of any of you get blurred
>> together in my head and I think 'um, did this person say that or was
>> it that person?' Anyway, as I recall you weren't doing well so you
>> decided to check out this new t'pist.
>>
>k
>
>>> who would we call if we in crisis? new t or pdoc t?
>>
>> Whomever would most reasonably get back to you the quickest. I would
>> probly call my bestest t'pist before I would call the one I worked
>> with in CO. The one in IL would probly call back more quickly. Not
>> that he would be able to help all that much. He lives 1,000 miles away
>> and hasn't talked to me in person since 1994.
>>
>wow. you'd call that t even though you haven't seen him in a long time?
Yep :) I send him a holiday note every year too :) He is just such a
cool person and very special to me.
>>> but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
>>> and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
>>
>> Yeah, I remember well the day one of us finally decided to give this
>> 'call if you need to' thing a try. What a weird bit of risk taking
>> that was! 'Call, no DON'T, stop acting like a baby, nothing is going
>> to help anyway, CALL ALREADY!, stop telling me what to do, there
>> really isn't anything wrong anyway so what's the big deal, this is a
>> really dumb idea, look, give me the phone and I'LL do it!...' probly
>> had 1/2 and hour of loud internal yelling and arguing and a seriously
>> massive headache before one of us just dialed the dang numbers.
>>
>heh! could totally see us doing that
And this was before I/we actually accepted that we were many so I was
quite sure I was bat sh*t nutzo to the max.
>> The t'pist was so unphased and calm like we called him all the time
>> and he had been waiting for the call. :P
>>
>and did it help?
I don't know. _I_ wasn't privy to what was said in the phone call :P
I assume the others found it helpful as we did it again in the future.
>>> and what would constitute a crisis
>>
>> That's a tricky thing to answer. Obviously if you are going to hurt
>> the body or someone else, call. If you feel like your mind is going in
>> to a million pieces very fast (not a pleasant experience!), call. If
>> you are so panicked and freaked out you feel like you might literally
>> explode, call. Less intense than that... I dunno. We just finally one
>> day said 'this is stupid!' and tried it. It worked well for us *shrug*
>>
>but... but... we can't call a t every time we might hurt the body. we
>don't hurt the body very much anymore. is just little hurts. that's not
>worth calling a t over.
Oh, I meant _HURT_ the body. Not the little self harm stuff. We used
to do that stuff daily. Yeah, we wouldn't have called for that. But
when one of us was going to run the car into a bridge abuttment... we
called.
>and because we have to take care of the pets we can't ever do something
>so bad to self that would put us in h*spital or d*ad. so is just little
>hurts and bad feelings and see, we've maybe sort of felt the million
>pieces things but we got through that without calling a t so it doesn't
>seem right to bother a t with it.
Again, it's about intensity or severity.
>>> and if we did soemthing just before appt isnt that just attention seeking
>>> we always used to pull it togetther before pdoc t. was a reason to not
>>> self-h*rm or somethng cuz we dint want to have to tell or for it to seem
>>> attention seeking or about him
>>
>> Hmm, my take on self harm is usually that it's a way to let off steam
>> or building up pressure or something. The 'need' just builds until you
>> have to do something about it. It's not about getting attention
>> because most of the time we (people who do this) try very hard for it
>> to not be found out. Kind of silly to think of doing something to get
>> attention and then hide it from everyone who might give you that
>> attention *grin*
>>
>ja. guess we mostly know other ways to let off pressure now
Good!
>only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted us to show our arm. :P
Well, I'm sure your t'pist could meet oscar now for other reasons.
>>> we should delete this
>>>
>>> mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
>>>
>>> sorry
>>
>> I don't think the t'pist is making you worse. I think that t'py is
>> unbalancing a carefully concocted tower of weirdness and now that
>> tower is tipping and wobbling and you have to learn to make it
>> balanced using different skills. In the long run that will be a very
>> good thing, but in the short run you are nervously adjusting this
>> while that wobbles, then grabbing at that while the one over there
>> teeters, so you carefully reach out to stabilize _that_ while
>> something else starts to shake and so on.
>>
>k
><big sigh>
>
>> Maybe talk to t'pist about in the moment coping skills? I'm sure there
>> are some that would work short term.
>>
>ok. maybe we will ask her about this
Good. Or remind asd and we can brainstorm what we (as a group) have
done that helped. I'm sure I could come up with stuff we used to
do if I thought about it.
confuzzled
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>
>> well, charlie initiatied the contact in the email. charlie wanted her
>> view point heard. think maybe charlie would have liked to t yesterday
>> but was fighting about that and maybe charlie is a bit scared of
>> talking to t so she backed off. dunno
>
> maybe charlie and others can have email conversations with t first
> and then maybe eventually it won't seem so wierd to meet her
>
maybe we gonna burn out t
(sorry)
astri
doubt you'll burn her out
understand the concern
wolfie of confuzzled
> In article <7ogjk8F...@mid.individual.net>,
> confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jill wrote:
>>> In article <7obf48F...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
<...>
>>>> who would we call if we in crisis? new t or pdoc t?
>>> Whomever would most reasonably get back to you the quickest. I would
>>> probly call my bestest t'pist before I would call the one I worked
>>> with in CO. The one in IL would probly call back more quickly. Not
>>> that he would be able to help all that much. He lives 1,000 miles away
>>> and hasn't talked to me in person since 1994.
>>>
>> wow. you'd call that t even though you haven't seen him in a long time?
>
> Yep :) I send him a holiday note every year too :) He is just such a
> cool person and very special to me.
>
:)
>>>> but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
>>>> and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
>>> Yeah, I remember well the day one of us finally decided to give this
>>> 'call if you need to' thing a try. What a weird bit of risk taking
>>> that was! 'Call, no DON'T, stop acting like a baby, nothing is going
>>> to help anyway, CALL ALREADY!, stop telling me what to do, there
>>> really isn't anything wrong anyway so what's the big deal, this is a
>>> really dumb idea, look, give me the phone and I'LL do it!...' probly
>>> had 1/2 and hour of loud internal yelling and arguing and a seriously
>>> massive headache before one of us just dialed the dang numbers.
>>>
>> heh! could totally see us doing that
>
> And this was before I/we actually accepted that we were many so I was
> quite sure I was bat sh*t nutzo to the max.
>
heh. yes, we done that
>>> The t'pist was so unphased and calm like we called him all the time
>>> and he had been waiting for the call. :P
>>>
>> and did it help?
>
> I don't know. _I_ wasn't privy to what was said in the phone call :P
> I assume the others found it helpful as we did it again in the future.
>
k
(now we worried if we decided it worked we'd do it too much)
>>>> and what would constitute a crisis
>>> That's a tricky thing to answer. Obviously if you are going to hurt
>>> the body or someone else, call. If you feel like your mind is going in
>>> to a million pieces very fast (not a pleasant experience!), call. If
>>> you are so panicked and freaked out you feel like you might literally
>>> explode, call. Less intense than that... I dunno. We just finally one
>>> day said 'this is stupid!' and tried it. It worked well for us *shrug*
>>>
>> but... but... we can't call a t every time we might hurt the body. we
>> don't hurt the body very much anymore. is just little hurts. that's not
>> worth calling a t over.
>
> Oh, I meant _HURT_ the body. Not the little self harm stuff. We used
> to do that stuff daily. Yeah, we wouldn't have called for that. But
> when one of us was going to run the car into a bridge abuttment... we
> called.
>
<sigh>
k
>> and because we have to take care of the pets we can't ever do something
>> so bad to self that would put us in h*spital or d*ad. so is just little
>> hurts and bad feelings and see, we've maybe sort of felt the million
>> pieces things but we got through that without calling a t so it doesn't
>> seem right to bother a t with it.
>
> Again, it's about intensity or severity.
>
see, but that's the problem. Or maybe not. guess really what we said. we
always get through so it must never be that intense or severe
<...>
>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted us to show our arm. :P
>
> Well, I'm sure your t'pist could meet oscar now for other reasons.
>
think she probably will. he talked to her a tiny bit a few weeks ago.
don't think she knew though. was really brief
>>>> we should delete this
>>>>
>>>> mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
>>>>
>>>> sorry
>>> I don't think the t'pist is making you worse. I think that t'py is
>>> unbalancing a carefully concocted tower of weirdness and now that
>>> tower is tipping and wobbling and you have to learn to make it
>>> balanced using different skills. In the long run that will be a very
>>> good thing, but in the short run you are nervously adjusting this
>>> while that wobbles, then grabbing at that while the one over there
>>> teeters, so you carefully reach out to stabilize _that_ while
>>> something else starts to shake and so on.
>>>
>> k
>> <big sigh>
>>
>>> Maybe talk to t'pist about in the moment coping skills? I'm sure there
>>> are some that would work short term.
>>>
>> ok. maybe we will ask her about this
>
> Good. Or remind asd and we can brainstorm what we (as a group) have
> done that helped. I'm sure I could come up with stuff we used to
> do if I thought about it.
>
is ok. we always come out fine
jill
Good t'pist will help the client set the limits in a safe and caring
way.
>>>>> and what would constitute a crisis
>>>> That's a tricky thing to answer. Obviously if you are going to hurt
>>>> the body or someone else, call. If you feel like your mind is going in
>>>> to a million pieces very fast (not a pleasant experience!), call. If
>>>> you are so panicked and freaked out you feel like you might literally
>>>> explode, call. Less intense than that... I dunno. We just finally one
>>>> day said 'this is stupid!' and tried it. It worked well for us *shrug*
>>>>
>>> but... but... we can't call a t every time we might hurt the body. we
>>> don't hurt the body very much anymore. is just little hurts. that's not
>>> worth calling a t over.
>>
>> Oh, I meant _HURT_ the body. Not the little self harm stuff. We used
>> to do that stuff daily. Yeah, we wouldn't have called for that. But
>> when one of us was going to run the car into a bridge abuttment... we
>> called.
>>
><sigh>
>k
>
>
>>> and because we have to take care of the pets we can't ever do something
>>> so bad to self that would put us in h*spital or d*ad. so is just little
>>> hurts and bad feelings and see, we've maybe sort of felt the million
>>> pieces things but we got through that without calling a t so it doesn't
>>> seem right to bother a t with it.
>>
>> Again, it's about intensity or severity.
>>
>see, but that's the problem. Or maybe not. guess really what we said. we
>always get through so it must never be that intense or severe
Well yeah, but by that 'logic' I wasn't abused because I lived through
it :P~~ Our first _real_ t'pist set some very clear limits on self
harm that we continued to use as guidelines for many years. If the
self harm is going to damage the body physically in a way that will
leave marks or cause the body to not function normally for some time,
call. If the self harm is getting worse over time so that what used to
be enough is no longer enough, call. If the sense of out of control is
getting bigger, CALL.
These guidelines helped us a lot cause we often did this version of
self harm that was really quite benign but allowed us to let off steam
and keep the anxiety at bay. It was along the line of pacing or
wiggling a foot/leg while seated. Even though it was technically 'self
harm' it was not truly harmful. The t'pist said as long as it stayed
at that level we were ok. If/when it ever increased in any way we
called him immediately.
If you need more info/details let me know and I'll throw in a spoiler
so you can see how my process worked.
><...>
>>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted us to show our arm. :P
>>
>> Well, I'm sure your t'pist could meet oscar now for other reasons.
>>
>think she probably will. he talked to her a tiny bit a few weeks ago.
>don't think she knew though. was really brief
:) I can never tell if t'pists can tell and choose not to say so, or
if they can't tell. I once asked our bestest t'pist about this _after_
we were done with t'py and he was pretty sure he knew all of us pretty
well but knew better than to say so as it would freak some of us out.
>>>>> we should delete this
>>>>>
>>>>> mostly we wanted to know if new t is making us worse
>>>>>
>>>>> sorry
>>>> I don't think the t'pist is making you worse. I think that t'py is
>>>> unbalancing a carefully concocted tower of weirdness and now that
>>>> tower is tipping and wobbling and you have to learn to make it
>>>> balanced using different skills. In the long run that will be a very
>>>> good thing, but in the short run you are nervously adjusting this
>>>> while that wobbles, then grabbing at that while the one over there
>>>> teeters, so you carefully reach out to stabilize _that_ while
>>>> something else starts to shake and so on.
>>>>
>>> k
>>> <big sigh>
>>>
>>>> Maybe talk to t'pist about in the moment coping skills? I'm sure there
>>>> are some that would work short term.
>>>>
>>> ok. maybe we will ask her about this
>>
>> Good. Or remind asd and we can brainstorm what we (as a group) have
>> done that helped. I'm sure I could come up with stuff we used to
>> do if I thought about it.
>>
>is ok. we always come out fine
*sigh* is the difference between living and surviving. Yes, you are a
survivor, a very strong and powerful _survivor_. But that is all you
are doing, surviving. Being 'fine' isn't good enough if you are going
to truly _live_. Living is different than surviving. Remember the
saying 'the best revenge is to live life well'. Well, you can't live
life until you get past surviving and take the next step.
astri
> These guidelines helped us a lot cause we often did this version of
> self harm that was really quite benign but allowed us to let off
> steam and keep the anxiety at bay. It was along the line of pacing or
> wiggling a foot/leg while seated. Even though it was technically
> 'self harm' it was not truly harmful.
how was that self harm?
jill
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
In article <Pine.BSI.4.64.09...@malasada.lava.net>,
astri <as...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, jill wrote:
>
>> These guidelines helped us a lot cause we often did this version of
>> self harm that was really quite benign but allowed us to let off
>> steam and keep the anxiety at bay. It was along the line of pacing or
>> wiggling a foot/leg while seated. Even though it was technically
>> 'self harm' it was not truly harmful.
>
>how was that self harm?
>
>-- astri
I meant that in the sense that it was ultimately not harmful to the
body, like pacing is not harmful to the body. In our case the 'benign'
self harm included: significantly too much exercise and not enough food,
scratching arms with sharp things so that we left faint red lines but
never drew blo*d, snapping a rubber band on wrist, drinking alcohol
but not to the point of being physically ill, taking various pills and
whatnot (but again, not od, just constantly), pinching, scratching or
slapping self to leave marks but again not to the point of permanent
damage, pulling out hair, etc.
In other words, as I write this my 'logical' mind is going 'oh,
give me a break! This stuff is NOTHING' while my emotional mind is
going 'ACK! I can't believe we used to do this stuff' because that
mind knows _why_ we did it.
These were things the t'pist said we could continue doing as long
as it didn't go beyond these limits. There were other things we did
that went way beyond these limits. We also sometimes started doing the
more benign self harm (ex. scratching arms with sharp things) and found
the sense of out of control growing bigger so that it ended up being
c*tting and drawing blo*d. Those were times we called t'pist.
confuzzled
> In article <7olrr1F...@mid.individual.net>,
> wolfie of confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jill wrote:
>>> In article <7ogjk8F...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jill wrote:
>>>>> In article <7obf48F...@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>> confuzzled <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
<...>
>>>>>> but thats a dumb question. because we wont call. we dont
>>>>>> and we never really in crisis. we get through just fine
>>>>> Yeah, I remember well the day one of us finally decided to give this
>>>>> 'call if you need to' thing a try. What a weird bit of risk taking
>>>>> that was! 'Call, no DON'T, stop acting like a baby, nothing is going
>>>>> to help anyway, CALL ALREADY!, stop telling me what to do, there
>>>>> really isn't anything wrong anyway so what's the big deal, this is a
>>>>> really dumb idea, look, give me the phone and I'LL do it!...' probly
>>>>> had 1/2 and hour of loud internal yelling and arguing and a seriously
>>>>> massive headache before one of us just dialed the dang numbers.
>>>>>
>>>> heh! could totally see us doing that
>>>
>>> And this was before I/we actually accepted that we were many so I was
>>> quite sure I was bat sh*t nutzo to the max.
>>>
>> heh. yes, we done that
>>
>>>>> The t'pist was so unphased and calm like we called him all the time
>>>>> and he had been waiting for the call. :P
>>>>>
>>>> and did it help?
>>>
>>> I don't know. _I_ wasn't privy to what was said in the phone call :P
>>> I assume the others found it helpful as we did it again in the future.
>>>
>> k
>>
>> (now we worried if we decided it worked we'd do it too much)
>
> Good t'pist will help the client set the limits in a safe and caring
> way.
>
guess so
<...>
>>>> and because we have to take care of the pets we can't ever do something
>>>> so bad to self that would put us in h*spital or d*ad. so is just little
>>>> hurts and bad feelings and see, we've maybe sort of felt the million
>>>> pieces things but we got through that without calling a t so it doesn't
>>>> seem right to bother a t with it.
>>> Again, it's about intensity or severity.
>>>
>> see, but that's the problem. Or maybe not. guess really what we said. we
>> always get through so it must never be that intense or severe
>
> Well yeah, but by that 'logic' I wasn't abused because I lived through
> it :P~~ Our first _real_ t'pist set some very clear limits on self
> harm that we continued to use as guidelines for many years. If the
> self harm is going to damage the body physically in a way that will
> leave marks or cause the body to not function normally for some time,
> call. If the self harm is getting worse over time so that what used to
> be enough is no longer enough, call. If the sense of out of control is
> getting bigger, CALL.
>
k. that helps maybe
think it does. hard to think
umm... can you clarify leave marks? guess probably needs spoiler
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
-
1
2
3
4
5
6
does bruises count as leaving marks? and where would purging fit in?
we tried to say more but it got deleted
we fine. we always fine
none of this matters
we can write that. other stuff goes away
sorry
> These guidelines helped us a lot cause we often did this version of
> self harm that was really quite benign but allowed us to let off steam
> and keep the anxiety at bay. It was along the line of pacing or
> wiggling a foot/leg while seated. Even though it was technically 'self
> harm' it was not truly harmful. The t'pist said as long as it stayed
> at that level we were ok. If/when it ever increased in any way we
> called him immediately.
>
> If you need more info/details let me know and I'll throw in a spoiler
> so you can see how my process worked.
>
think we saw you explained in next post to astri?
<....>
think this is just how it is
think we been expecting too much
sorry we so negative
really think we need to shut up
astri
oh, ok
different from pacing
astri
> jill wrote:
>
> <...>
bruises count
purging is definitely equivalent
> we tried to say more but it got deleted
> we fine. we always fine
> none of this matters
> we can write that. other stuff goes away
> sorry
regret
>> *sigh* is the difference between living and surviving. Yes, you are
>> a survivor, a very strong and powerful _survivor_. But that is all
>> you are doing, surviving. Being 'fine' isn't good enough if you are
>> going to truly _live_. Living is different than surviving. Remember
>> the saying 'the best revenge is to live life well'. Well, you can't
>> live life until you get past surviving and take the next step.
>>
> think this is just how it is
> think we been expecting too much
> sorry we so negative
> really think we need to shut up
wave?
confuzzled
> In other words, as I write this my 'logical' mind is going 'oh,
> give me a break! This stuff is NOTHING' while my emotional mind is
> going 'ACK! I can't believe we used to do this stuff' because that
> mind knows _why_ we did it.
>
> These were things the t'pist said we could continue doing as long
> as it didn't go beyond these limits. There were other things we did
> that went way beyond these limits. We also sometimes started doing the
> more benign self harm (ex. scratching arms with sharp things) and found
> the sense of out of control growing bigger so that it ended up being
> c*tting and drawing blo*d. Those were times we called t'pist.
>
understand really well how one thing turns to another
:/ think is just better if we muddle through on own
don't think calling would help. don't like phone
maybe though we should start writing again when things like that. we did
that before. hate hate hate the stuff we wrote but at least then we
could remember to know what was happening.
and maybe if we in wave sometimes people could remind us music helps us
a lot
but we probably being way misleading. we fine. we haven't done anything
bad today
(except skip lunch and drink too much caffeine)
(but that's not a big deal at all)
confuzzled
>> we tried to say more but it got deleted
>> we fine. we always fine
>> none of this matters
>> we can write that. other stuff goes away
>> sorry
>
> regret
>
>>> *sigh* is the difference between living and surviving. Yes, you are
>>> a survivor, a very strong and powerful _survivor_. But that is all
>>> you are doing, surviving. Being 'fine' isn't good enough if you are
>>> going to truly _live_. Living is different than surviving. Remember
>>> the saying 'the best revenge is to live life well'. Well, you can't
>>> live life until you get past surviving and take the next step.
>>>
>> think this is just how it is
>> think we been expecting too much
>> sorry we so negative
>> really think we need to shut up
>
> wave?
>
guess so
(doesn't matter)
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, confuzzled wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>> umm... can you clarify leave marks? guess probably needs spoiler
>>>
>>> 1
>>> 2
>>> 3
>>> 4
>>> 5
>>> 6
>>> 7
>>> 8
>>> 9
>>> 0
>>> -
>>> 1
>>> 2
>>> 3
>>> 4
>>> 5
>>> 6
>>>
>>> does bruises count as leaving marks? and where would purging fit in?
>>
>> bruises count
>> purging is definitely equivalent
>>
> <sigh>
yes
>>> think this is just how it is
>>> think we been expecting too much
>>> sorry we so negative
>>> really think we need to shut up
>>
>> wave?
>>
> guess so
> (doesn't matter)
you matter
(regrets)
jill
My t'pist always said it had to do with permanentness. If the body was
bruised or scratched in a way that was minor and healed quickly, it
was less significant than if there was bl*od or marks took long to
heal or there was scarring.
Purging is a tough one because it can be so harmful to the body in a
more permanent way. None of us ever did that specifically so I don't
know what our t'pist would have said about it. _I_ would put it in
a more serious category for _me_, but I wouldn't put exercising 4
hours a day with 6 hours of sleep and only 1,000 calories in it :P~~
>we tried to say more but it got deleted
>we fine. we always fine
>none of this matters
>we can write that. other stuff goes away
>sorry
>
>> These guidelines helped us a lot cause we often did this version of
>> self harm that was really quite benign but allowed us to let off steam
>> and keep the anxiety at bay. It was along the line of pacing or
>> wiggling a foot/leg while seated. Even though it was technically 'self
>> harm' it was not truly harmful. The t'pist said as long as it stayed
>> at that level we were ok. If/when it ever increased in any way we
>> called him immediately.
>>
>> If you need more info/details let me know and I'll throw in a spoiler
>> so you can see how my process worked.
>>
>think we saw you explained in next post to astri?
Yep
You are settling for survival. That was ok in the past but it's not
going to be good enough for the long run. For long term you will want
the next step, actually living your life.
confuzzled
12
3
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5
6
7
8
9
0
1
2
4
6
1
2
3
stupid dumb idiot
everything is fine. we are fine
don't need to freak out over stupid little stuff
hate us
hate us hate us
confuzzled
> spoiler for negative self talk
>
> 12
> 3
> 4
> 5
> 6
> 7
> 8
> 9
> 0
> 1
> 2
> 4
> 6
>
> 1
> 2
> 3
>
>
august. I really can't figure out what stuff is about him and what's
ptsd stuff. guess i know what we got to talk to t about on monday
when I pushed him away he was so mad. I have seen him, more and more
lately, but always from a distance
at the grocery store a bit ago I saw jb. was already overloaded because
it's way crowded. already exhausted because of how life has been lately.
not sure if he saw me at that point but probably. inside total chaos and
buzzy head. started talking to margaret. previous owner of this house.
talked and talked about the neighborhood. jb had left the produce
section. actually thought about just leaving but it's stupid and I
needed things so kept shopping.
jb and I ended up in same aisle. he walked past me scowling and angry
looking, avoiding eye contact. i finally finished shopping came home and
had meltdown. it's so stupid how triggered i get by him. it's not reasonable
took old cat to the vet today. thought maybe it was the end but she came
home with us. not sure if that was right thing. and it's this time of
year. hate hate hate this time of year
my friend is expecting me over there at 6. gotta pull myself together.
we are playing dreidle and eating pizza
and I really really needed to get chores done and get ready not come
home and melt down. sorry is all me me me stuff lately
think we need to be d*d. but theres the pets. dunno what to do anymore
sorry
Puddles
Puddles
you *are* doing this, you are 'making it' right now. i like the way you
organized this post. it sounds like many things and too much and
overwhelm but in a very much different way, like you have grown. like
you have came a very long way in who you are.
i know its hard right now. i hear your fight with yourself. keep hanging
on k? we like talking to you. we need you, pets need you, lots more to
be here for.
astri
regrets
astri
maybe it is?
seems you guys never could agree about what was right or not about that
incident with him? and then you are triggered by anger? and maybe
feeling awful about feeling like you made him angry? blaming yourself?
and then he's holding on to that anger (which isn't really reasonable,
maybe). so it makes you feel like you were all wrong and bad for
asserting any boundaries?
> took old cat to the vet today. thought maybe it was the end but she
> came home with us. not sure if that was right thing. and it's this
> time of year. hate hate hate this time of year
sigh
> my friend is expecting me over there at 6. gotta pull myself
> together. we are playing dreidle and eating pizza
sir lala is trying to make a dreidel with modelling clay now
> and I really really needed to get chores done and get ready not come
> home and melt down. sorry is all me me me stuff lately
don't think is all you you you
> think we need to be d*d. but theres the pets. dunno what to do
> anymore sorry
regret those feelings
confuzzled
> we like you.
>
thank you
big jumbles inside
confuzzled
we been thinking lots we hopeless
> i know its hard right now. i hear your fight with yourself. keep hanging
> on k? we like talking to you. we need you, pets need you, lots more to
> be here for.
<sigh>
k
confuzzled
;/
>
> seems you guys never could agree about what was right or not about that
> incident with him? and then you are triggered by anger? and maybe
> feeling awful about feeling like you made him angry? blaming yourself?
> and then he's holding on to that anger (which isn't really reasonable,
> maybe). so it makes you feel like you were all wrong and bad for
> asserting any boundaries?
>
we see t tomorrow. guess maybe we got to talk about this.
we dreamed about him last night. is maybe triggery....
we were at work and having a meeting. he came in and sat down. no one
said anything. he just sat there looking mad and sad and then started
saying stuff. we couldn't here at first. he not next to us. other people
could here. then we could hear. he was saying we pushed him away. he was
saying we'd been awful. we didn't know what to do and thought maybe
everyone was believing him. didn't finally manager told him he had to
go. so he went. then staff meeting ended and we all went outside. he
came up to us. not mad, just sad and he hugged us and he was holding us
really tight saying stuff like he missed us and wanted us and we were
frozen and could push him away. finally something happened and he was
made to go away and coworkers were there and asking us questions and we
just wanted to go away and not have questions questions questions but we
were afraid to go anywhere because we knew he'd be there waiting again
and if we alone we wouldn't be able to make him go away and he'd be
holding us tight again like he did and we'd be trapped
>> took old cat to the vet today. thought maybe it was the end but she
>> came home with us. not sure if that was right thing. and it's this
>> time of year. hate hate hate this time of year
>
> sigh
>
doesn't matter
>> my friend is expecting me over there at 6. gotta pull myself
>> together. we are playing dreidle and eating pizza
>
> sir lala is trying to make a dreidel with modelling clay now
>
did it work?
>> and I really really needed to get chores done and get ready not come
>> home and melt down. sorry is all me me me stuff lately
>
> don't think is all you you you
>
<sigh>
>> think we need to be d*d. but theres the pets. dunno what to do
>> anymore sorry
>
> regret those feelings
>
need to stop saying that stuff
astri
> doesn't feel like we grown.
> we been thinking lots we hopeless
doubt it
astri
yes
> we dreamed about him last night. is maybe triggery....
> we were at work and having a meeting. he came in and sat down. no one
> said anything. he just sat there looking mad and sad and then started
> saying stuff. we couldn't here at first. he not next to us. other
> people could here. then we could hear. he was saying we pushed him
> away. he was saying we'd been awful. we didn't know what to do and
> thought maybe everyone was believing him. didn't finally manager told
> him he had to go. so he went. then staff meeting ended and we all
> went outside. he came up to us. not mad, just sad and he hugged us
> and he was holding us really tight saying stuff like he missed us and
> wanted us and we were frozen and could push him away. finally
> something happened and he was made to go away and coworkers were
> there and asking us questions and we just wanted to go away and not
> have questions questions questions but we were afraid to go anywhere
> because we knew he'd be there waiting again and if we alone we
> wouldn't be able to make him go away and he'd be holding us tight
> again like he did and we'd be trapped
maybe take this to show t
>>> took old cat to the vet today. thought maybe it was the end but she
>>> came home with us. not sure if that was right thing. and it's this
>>> time of year. hate hate hate this time of year
>>
>> sigh
>>
> doesn't matter
we like you
>> sir lala is trying to make a dreidel with modelling clay now
>>
> did it work?
is lopsided :/
>>> and I really really needed to get chores done and get ready not
>>> come home and melt down. sorry is all me me me stuff lately
>>
>> don't think is all you you you
>>
> <sigh>
yes
>>> think we need to be d*d. but theres the pets. dunno what to do
>>> anymore sorry
>>
>> regret those feelings
>>
> need to stop saying that stuff
maybe some day you'll stop needing to say that stuff
confuzzled
:/
guess maybe. dunno
lots to talk about tomorrow
we almost literally walked in to jb today. different store. sheesh. he
was walking out putting away basket and we were walking in getting
basket. he definitely looks mad. he just walked away.
oh well. no big deal
>
>>> sir lala is trying to make a dreidel with modelling clay now
>>>
>> did it work?
>
> is lopsided :/
>
ja. think it would be really hard to make one truly balanced
<...>
>>>> think we need to be d*d. but theres the pets. dunno what to do
>>>> anymore sorry
>>>
>>> regret those feelings
>>>
>> need to stop saying that stuff
>
> maybe some day you'll stop needing to say that stuff
>
oh
astri
will be good when it really is no big deal
>>>> sir lala is trying to make a dreidel with modelling clay now
>>>>
>>> did it work?
>>
>> is lopsided :/
>>
> ja. think it would be really hard to make one truly balanced
yah
> <...>
>>>>> think we need to be d*d. but theres the pets. dunno what to do
>>>>> anymore sorry
>>>>
>>>> regret those feelings
>>>>
>>> need to stop saying that stuff
>>
>> maybe some day you'll stop needing to say that stuff
>>
> oh
yes
astri
> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
> works
is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less important
than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is less whatever
than it really is.
> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted to see our sh. we
> don't want to show. we don't want people to know. guess maybe there
> is shame. also... is just... private.
>
> guess... we been thinking about this... guess part of why we get so
> freaked is our body was never much allowed to be private. so that's
> why the sh has to be private because it's *ours*. guess that's sort
> of messed up
maybe not?
maybe is the only way you allowed yourself to insist on privacy?
dunno
fuzzy
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>
>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>> works
>
> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less important
> than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is less whatever
> than it really is.
>
know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and we
don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be minimization,
we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it less. I think I not
verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I *am* confuzzled
>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted to see our sh. we
>> don't want to show. we don't want people to know. guess maybe there
>> is shame. also... is just... private.
>>
>> guess... we been thinking about this... guess part of why we get so
>> freaked is our body was never much allowed to be private. so that's
>> why the sh has to be private because it's *ours*. guess that's sort
>> of messed up
>
> maybe not?
> maybe is the only way you allowed yourself to insist on privacy?
> dunno
>
oh!
Shiyiya
> astri wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>
>>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>>> works
>>
>> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less important
>> than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is less whatever
>> than it really is.
>>
> ok. so... here's where we garbled or something. so, yes, we minimize.
> know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and we
> don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be minimization,
> we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it less. I think I not
> verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I *am* confuzzled
Heh :P Think it's an instictive reaction in a lto of places at this
point probably? Because with foo you couldn't need or anything so
learned to push everything down and pretend it wasn't real?
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>
>>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>>> works
>>
>> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less
>> important than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is
>> less whatever than it really is.
>>
> ok. so... here's where we garbled or something. so, yes, we minimize.
> know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and
> we don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be
> minimization, we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it
> less. I think I not verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I
> *am* confuzzled
nope, don't have to know you're minimizing
in fact, usually the person minimizing doesn't realize it
>>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted to see our sh. we
>>> don't want to show. we don't want people to know. guess maybe there
>>> is shame. also... is just... private.
>>>
>>> guess... we been thinking about this... guess part of why we get so
>>> freaked is our body was never much allowed to be private. so that's
>>> why the sh has to be private because it's *ours*. guess that's sort
>>> of messed up
>>
>> maybe not?
>> maybe is the only way you allowed yourself to insist on privacy?
>> dunno
>>
> oh!
hit something?
fuzzy
> fuzzy wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>>
>>>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>>>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>>>> works
>>>
>>> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less important
>>> than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is less whatever
>>> than it really is.
>>>
>> ok. so... here's where we garbled or something. so, yes, we minimize.
>> know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and we
>> don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be minimization,
>> we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it less. I think I
>> not verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I *am* confuzzled
>
> Heh :P Think it's an instictive reaction in a lto of places at this
> point probably? Because with foo you couldn't need or anything so
> learned to push everything down and pretend it wasn't real?
guess so. and maybe also, didn't even get to learn what is real. like if
we were little and foo was saying it wasn't scary or bad or it didn't
hurt and we learning what's real from them, then that's what we learned.
Shiyiya
yes. they taught you to doubt what you see and feel and are and just
believe what they say. gotta start over and learn to trust yourselves.
fuzzy
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>> astri wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>>
>>>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>>>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>>>> works
>>>
>>> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less
>>> important than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is
>>> less whatever than it really is.
>>>
>> ok. so... here's where we garbled or something. so, yes, we minimize.
>> know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and
>> we don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be
>> minimization, we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it
>> less. I think I not verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I
>> *am* confuzzled
>
> nope, don't have to know you're minimizing
> in fact, usually the person minimizing doesn't realize it
>
sometimes kind of feels like everything we've ever known has been shaken
up. really is confusing :/
>>>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted to see our sh. we
>>>> don't want to show. we don't want people to know. guess maybe there
>>>> is shame. also... is just... private.
>>>>
>>>> guess... we been thinking about this... guess part of why we get so
>>>> freaked is our body was never much allowed to be private. so that's
>>>> why the sh has to be private because it's *ours*. guess that's sort
>>>> of messed up
>>>
>>> maybe not?
>>> maybe is the only way you allowed yourself to insist on privacy?
>>> dunno
>>>
>> oh!
>
> hit something?
>
yes.
astri
> astri wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>> astri wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>>>>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>>>>> works
>>>>
>>>> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less
>>>> important than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is
>>>> less whatever than it really is.
>>>>
>>> ok. so... here's where we garbled or something. so, yes, we minimize.
>>> know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and
>>> we don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be
>>> minimization, we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it
>>> less. I think I not verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I
>>> *am* confuzzled
>>
>> nope, don't have to know you're minimizing
>> in fact, usually the person minimizing doesn't realize it
>>
> k
>
> sometimes kind of feels like everything we've ever known has been
> shaken up. really is confusing :/
yeah
>>>>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted to see our sh. we
>>>>> don't want to show. we don't want people to know. guess maybe there
>>>>> is shame. also... is just... private.
>>>>>
>>>>> guess... we been thinking about this... guess part of why we get so
>>>>> freaked is our body was never much allowed to be private. so that's
>>>>> why the sh has to be private because it's *ours*. guess that's sort
>>>>> of messed up
>>>>
>>>> maybe not?
>>>> maybe is the only way you allowed yourself to insist on privacy?
>>>> dunno
>>>>
>>> oh!
>>
>> hit something?
>>
> yes.
k
jill
fuzzy <nospamsometi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>astri wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, fuzzy wrote:
>>
>>> maybe... well.. could someone explain minimization to us. suppose
>>> that's a silly question but maybe we don't fully understand how that
>>> works
>>
>> is making self believe that something doesn't matter, is less important
>> than it really is, is less painful than it really is, is less whatever
>> than it really is.
>>
>ok. so... here's where we garbled or something. so, yes, we minimize.
>know we do. but sometimes you guys are telling us we minimizing and we
>don't know we are minimizing. :/ seems like for it to be minimization,
>we'd ahve to know it's more but be trying to make it less. I think I not
>verbalizing well. or I'm confused...well... I *am* confuzzled
I don't think so. I think you just have a default setting switched to
'when it doubt, it's not that bad'. When I had the embolism I honestly
didn't know it was bad. I knew _something_ was not right but I
consciously didn't know it was life threatening. So I defaulted to 'it
must be the flu'. Fortunately, even though I was saying 'it isn't that
bad' the 911 person could hear that something was seriously wrong and
got me to the ER.
I don't think you have to consciously know it's big in order to call
it minimizing. I think it's like being glass half full/glass half
empty. It's just a choice or words or a way of thinking about stuff
that tells us at asd that you are minimizing.
Rainbow Colors (Jill)
>>> only time pdoc t ever met oscar is when he wanted to see our sh. we
>>> don't want to show. we don't want people to know. guess maybe there
>>> is shame. also... is just... private.
>>>
>>> guess... we been thinking about this... guess part of why we get so
>>> freaked is our body was never much allowed to be private. so that's
>>> why the sh has to be private because it's *ours*. guess that's sort
>>> of messed up
>>
>> maybe not?
>> maybe is the only way you allowed yourself to insist on privacy?
>> dunno
>>
>oh!
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing
we are becoming white light.
ji...@tuells.org
astri
> guess it gets something like that for us maybe. is hard to think
> about. is sometimes the only way we can speak at all, if another is
> allowed to minimize.
yes, or outright deny. have to do that first, get it out of the way,
and then sneak up on any other interpretations.