Herbal solution

1 view
Skip to first unread message

lynn

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
A friend of mine just returned from China. He brought with him a herbal
formula product which specifically targets at type 2. The Chinese doctor
who formulated this product has a family background of herbal medical
practice. His formula has been so successful that a special hospital and
research institute were set up dedicated for the treatment of diabetes using
his medicines. According to the literature he showed me, many early-phase
diabetes have been cured.

But I don't have all the materials to explain how it works. He says it's for
language barriers and culture differences that his formula hasn't been
introduced to the West.

lyn

Jude Crouch

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to

This relates directly to the ADA's position on unproven therapies:
http://www.diabetes.org/DiabetesCare/Supplement199/S104.htm
especially this part:

"Their developers and promoters often claim that a medical or
scientific "conspiracy" has been convened against them."

China has cooperated and shared scientific evidence with the rest
of the world, even ancient herbal medicine and acupuncture, at least
since Nixon visited the Great Wall and ping-pong became a political
strategy.

The US Govt even has a Office of Alternative Medicine in their
National Institutes of Health <http://nccam.nih.gov/>.

If there was a product that showed promise, it would be sought by
govts, advocacy orgs, and drug companies. [especially drug
companies -- many drugs on the market today simulate the actions
found in herbal medicines].


Jude

--

Jude Crouch (jcr...@pobox.com) - Computing since 1967!
Crouch Enterprises - Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting
Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

table...@callnetuk.com

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
Neither Dr.Wang nor the other experts in the Research Institute ever
complained anyone "convened against them". In fact, the hospital and
institute were set up under the support of local health care
authorities.

And the herbal formula has just been licenced in China to sell to the
public as a proper medicine. When you say 'unproven', I really don't
understand why you are so sure it's unproven. What I can read from your
message is that all herbal treatment is "unproven".

My friend is a qualified medical professional and he spent nearly three
months there working with their experts. He is not a crook but a
responsile person who is a top level diabetes expert in the UK.

The files he brought back do show many early-medium stage type2
diabetics have been cured. Of course the healing process must not be an
easy one, but it does work out.

While there is no effective treatment for diabetes in the conventional
medication, we ought to keep an open mind for other approaches. Blind
denial to everything will get us nowhere.

Lynn

> This relates directly to the ADA's position on unproven therapies:
> http://www.diabetes.org/DiabetesCare/Supplement199/S104.htm
> especially this part:
>
> "Their developers and promoters often claim that a medical or
> scientific "conspiracy" has been convened against them."
>
> China has cooperated and shared scientific evidence with the rest
> of the world, even ancient herbal medicine and acupuncture, at least
> since Nixon visited the Great Wall and ping-pong became a political
> strategy.
>
> The US Govt even has a Office of Alternative Medicine in their
> National Institutes of Health <http://nccam.nih.gov/>.
>
> If there was a product that showed promise, it would be sought by
> govts, advocacy orgs, and drug companies. [especially drug
> companies -- many drugs on the market today simulate the actions
> found in herbal medicines].
>
> Jude
>
> --
>
> Jude Crouch (jcr...@pobox.com) - Computing since 1967!
> Crouch Enterprises - Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting
> Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Jude Crouch

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
table...@callnetuk.com wrote:
> Neither Dr.Wang nor the other experts in the Research Institute ever
> complained anyone "convened against them". In fact, the hospital and
> institute were set up under the support of local health care
> authorities.

First, you never named the doctor until now, and even now we have
no way of finding out about this remedy. In our town of 60,000
in the Midwest US, not known for it's Asian population, there are
at least 25 Wangs. Research Institute gives us no leads as to
where in the BILLION-person China he may do business.

> And the herbal formula has just been licenced in China to sell to the
> public as a proper medicine. When you say 'unproven', I really don't
> understand why you are so sure it's unproven. What I can read from your
> message is that all herbal treatment is "unproven".

You misread. Herbal therapies are often used -- after testing for
safety and efficacy. This un-specified herbal remedy is assumed
to be unproven, since you haven't named it.

> My friend is a qualified medical professional and he spent nearly three
> months there working with their experts. He is not a crook but a
> responsile person who is a top level diabetes expert in the UK.

No one said anything about crooks. I hope that as a top level
diabetes expert he will publish information about the product so
that it will undergo peer review.

> The files he brought back do show many early-medium stage type2
> diabetics have been cured. Of course the healing process must not be an
> easy one, but it does work out.

This would be good news, indeed, since no other therapy has yielded
any cures.

> While there is no effective treatment for diabetes in the conventional
> medication, we ought to keep an open mind for other approaches. Blind
> denial to everything will get us nowhere.

No one is denying anything... you referred to an unknown herbal
compound and an unnamed institute, by a doctor who has a name
equivelant to "Smith" in the western hemisphere. Did I mention
that medical and scientific professionals regularly share information
with China and other Asian countries? And that the NIH has an
Office of Alternate Medicine? And that such a product would be
popular with drug companies, govts, and advocacy orgs?

>> China has cooperated and shared scientific evidence with the rest
>> of the world, even ancient herbal medicine and acupuncture, at least
>> since Nixon visited the Great Wall and ping-pong became a political
>> strategy.

>> If there was a product that showed promise, it would be sought by


>> govts, advocacy orgs, and drug companies. [especially drug
>> companies -- many drugs on the market today simulate the actions
>> found in herbal medicines].

Here is the problem I have with your original post -- you cannot
name or document what you have said. Some may read it and say,
"herbal treatment" is the answer to my diabetes, so I can quit
those other treatments that my doctor advises and search out this
promised "cure".

I repeat, I hope that your top level diabetes expert will publish
information about the product so that it will undergo peer review.

Robert Meek

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
I think the operative word here is "cure" - which is not reasonable.

Consider this: yes, herbal medications can work, early medications were all
from plants, until we learned to make synthetic ones. Digitalis, for
instance, is one of the oldest (also known as Lanoxin), for the heart, from
the digitalis plant.

Many chemotherapies still come from plants, today.

Drug companies are routinely scouting the deep forests of Africa for new
drugs.

However, again, the concept of "cure" is, I think, a misnomer, at best.

One simply cannot take an herbal product and restore genetically-induced
flaws in the alpha and beta cells of the Isle of Langerhans of their
pancreas.

It would be too easy, and if so, this man would already be thoroughly known
world wide.

Now, he MIGHT have an excellent oral herbal medication on his hands, that
works better than our synthetics. That is a feasible concept.

- Robert, RN.


lynn <table...@callnetuk.com> wrote in message
news:3786...@eeyore.callnetuk.com...


> A friend of mine just returned from China. He brought with him a herbal
> formula product which specifically targets at type 2. The Chinese doctor
> who formulated this product has a family background of herbal medical
> practice. His formula has been so successful that a special hospital and
> research institute were set up dedicated for the treatment of diabetes
using
> his medicines. According to the literature he showed me, many early-phase
> diabetes have been cured.
>
> But I don't have all the materials to explain how it works. He says it's
for
> language barriers and culture differences that his formula hasn't been
> introduced to the West.
>

> lyn
>
>

table...@callnetuk.com

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
I never had any interest in diabetes until he asked me to translate
some of his materials.

I'm not trying to tell everyone this specific herbal thing is THE
solution. It works on some people and that's all.

Of course he will publish his findings and that's why he spent time
there. All info regarding this hospital and the formula will be
available for everyone on a web site to be built.

Whether anyone is to do 'peer review' is not their concern, it's not
going to be sold outside China as medicine, but supplement.

lynn

Joe

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to

Jude Crouch wrote:

> table...@callnetuk.com wrote:
> > Neither Dr.Wang nor the other experts in the Research Institute ever
> > complained anyone "convened against them". In fact, the hospital and
> > institute were set up under the support of local health care
> > authorities.
>
> First, you never named the doctor until now, and even now we have
> no way of finding out about this remedy. In our town of 60,000
> in the Midwest US, not known for it's Asian population, there are
> at least 25 Wangs.

Why I think that would be.....My Wang. Not to be confused with the noted
Urologist, Dr. My Wang Hurtz.


Joe

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to

lynn wrote:

> A friend of mine just returned from China. He brought with him a herbal
> formula product which specifically targets at type 2.

Oh lets see.... I guess it was three or four thousand years ago that they came
across the herb Ma Huang. Funny how every ten years or so since then someone
wants to act like they just discovered it.

Yes, Ma Huang IS effective as an adjunctive treatment of Type 2 Diabetes. As an
adjunctive therapy, Ma Huang can deaden the appetite and raise the metabolism of
the Type 2. By deadening the appetite and raising the metabolism, the type 2 is
assisted in losing weight.

This resulting weight lose improves the weight to insulin ratio. It is then
presumed that once the afflicted individual achieves their proper weight that
they will no longer need treatment for diabetes presenting the illusion of a
"Cure".

(You don't say? and I can get this without a prescription?)

A'yup. In the form of Ma Huang you would have to ingest about 800mg, three times
per day to be of any therapeutic value. This is available at any health food
store. It is further refined into diet supplements labeled, "Ephedra", Ephedrine
Alkaloid" and "Ephedrine" with Ephedrine being the most refined and effective.

It can also be found in certain over the counter decongestants such as
Primatene.

(You mean this shit works and I can just go to the store and buy as much as I
want?)

A'yup.

(Is there any reason I shouldn't?)

Oh... I don'...know.... maybe...... sudden death?

Also known as, "The heart attack in a bottle", the FDA along with the DEA have
been working very hard over the years to get the stuff properly classified as an
amphetamine. Right now, it's marketed as a "Herbal Diet Supplement".

While I in no way endorse the product, here's a site with some brief info:
http://www.biotreasures.com/Ephedrine.htm

Oh and by the way...did you know that China later admitted that acupuncture and
accupressure were complete hoaxes? It's true. They said they did it for Nixon's
visit because they wanted to show a superiority in health treatment.

Of course none of this is really relevant since the poster is going to tell you
it isn't Ephedrine or Ma Huang their selling....just watch...here it comes. It's
that "This product is sooo secret even we don't know what it is".

Joe


Jude Crouch

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
Joe <jral...@ptd.net> wrote:


> lynn wrote:

> A'yup.

> Joe

Back to the American Diabetes Assn web site:
<http://www.diabetes.org/diabetesforecast/96apr/chromium.htm>

"Chromium supplements contain more than chromium. They often have a
combination of ingredients including amino acids, kola nut (caffeine), and
the herb mahuang, which contains ephedrine.

"Ephedrine acts as a central nervous system stimulant, and also increases
systolic and diastolic blood pressure. Other side effects include palpitations,
nervousness, and headaches."

BTW, ephedrine has been shown to be effective to treat diabetes edema (see
<http://www.diabetes.org/diabetescare/1997-03/pg290.htm>
but it is also linked with stroke:

<http://www.americanheart.org/Scientific/statements/1997/079709.html>

"Case reports have also linked over-the-counter sympathomimetic
decongestants, cold remedies, and diet aids (eg, phenylpropanolamine),
ephedrine, and pseudoephedrine with hemorrhagic and, less often,
ischemic stroke."

So in this search for easy remedies, we come across with new and
different health problems, or complications of the ones we have.
We have to make trade-offs all of the time in reaching the appropriate
therapy, which is why we must always involve our medical team in
decisions of how to treat our diseases.

One would not treat their own brain tumor, or a broken leg,
or an abcessed tooth. Use your medical team to your own
BEST advantage.

Joe

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to

Jude Crouch wrote:

> which is why we must always involve our medical team in
> decisions of how to treat our diseases.
>
> One would not treat their own brain tumor, or a broken leg,
> or an abcessed tooth. Use your medical team to your own
> BEST advantage.
>
> Jude

"Word's to live by", Jude. Drug store remedies have been killing people for years.
While each of us is similar none of us are the same. An element is an element. That is
that Carbon is Carbon whether it's manufactured in a pharmaceutical lab or refined
from a root in the woods.

Already having an illness, we must be even more cautious than the typical consumer.
Take only those over the counter drugs that are recommended by your health care
professional. Remember he is bombarded 52 times a week by drug company salesman. If
anyone Chinese or otherwise has ever come up with a treatment or cure, I'm sure your
doctor would be the first to offer it to you.

Joe


Jude Crouch

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
table...@callnetuk.com wrote:
> I never had any interest in diabetes until he asked me to translate
> some of his materials.

Well, some of us have seen such promises come and go. You only do a
disservice if you do not give specifics. Your posting has the
status of gossip.

> I'm not trying to tell everyone this specific herbal thing is THE
> solution. It works on some people and that's all.

Hmmm. Your chosen Subject: was "Herbal solution".

> Of course he will publish his findings and that's why he spent time
> there. All info regarding this hospital and the formula will be
> available for everyone on a web site to be built.

We'll welcome the opportunity to learn more.

> Whether anyone is to do 'peer review' is not their concern,...

Well it should be. Studies performed in a vacuum are not of
much value. If their methods are valid, the research will hold
up to scrutiny.

> ...it's not


> going to be sold outside China as medicine, but supplement.

At least in the US, herbal remedies can be sold as food supplements.
That does not mean that they are safe or effective for any
particular malady. Herbs (also vitamins, minerals) often have
significant side-effects which must be considered WITH YOUR
MEDICAL TEAM in any therapy.

Jude Crouch

unread,
Jul 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/10/99
to
Joe <jral...@ptd.net> wrote:

> Jude Crouch wrote:
> Already having an illness, we must be even more cautious than
> the typical consumer.
> Take only those over the counter drugs that are recommended by
> your health care
> professional. Remember he is bombarded 52 times a week by drug
> company salesman. If
> anyone Chinese or otherwise has ever come up with a treatment
> or cure, I'm sure your
> doctor would be the first to offer it to you.

Not to mention the line that drug companies would form at the
researcher's office door.

Among the problems with herbal remedies is dosage and quality
control. By studying an herbal remedy, a drug company can
often make a manufactured product that eliminates those problems.
*That* reduces undesireable side-effects.


Science works across geographic, language, political and cultural
barriers. If any of these supposed barriers are a problem, it's
because the researcher refused to cooperate with a whole host
of organizations, including the WHO (World Health Organization).

Scientists operate under a specific protocol, no matter where in
the world they work. A trial under accepted methods, publication
of their results, peer review of the method and conclusions,
then acceptance of the study.

missabefan

unread,
Jul 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/11/99
to
Hear! Hear! This says it all!

Joe

unread,
Jul 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/11/99
to
Isle of Langerhans?
I think I spent the summer there once. Pleasant little spot just off
Mahhhthahhs Vinyahhd.

missabefan

unread,
Jul 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/11/99
to
Hehe! Joe,
I think you are mistaken, you must have been to the Islet of
Langerhans.........or were there two of them? Y'know "Islets" of Langerhans.
Wasn't that where the German playboy, Langerhans, kept all his bunnies?

Joe <jral...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:3788A562...@ptd.net...

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages