Actos linked to kidney disease?
BillW50
has stage 5 kidney disease which was caused by her taking Actos. And
told her that her primary doctor should have been monitoring her blood
for signs of kidney damage. Her primary doctor is a well respected
doctor here and is even on the Board of Trustees at the local hospital.
Luckily, she got a new doctor right away.
Now she has to go to for dialysis three times a week. And that just
wrecks your whole life. As it costs a lot of money and takes up a lot of
your time. And for some reason, they need to give her oxygen only when
she is on the machine. Otherwise her blood pressure drops to very
dangerous low levels. They don't know why?
My Dad, Mom, and myself are all Type II diabetics. My Dad has advanced
stage of cancer, so I didn't think he worries too much about his
kidneys. Nor keeping his blood glucose levels near 100. As he is already
living on borrowed time. The cancer is in his liver and lungs. It used
to be just in his rectum, but after surgery it spread.
I, myself learned back in February of 2009 that I have stage 1 kidney
disease. I wasn't too worried back then. As stage 1 didn't sound too bad
to me. But when I went back to my doctor in August 2009, I was at stage
2. Now I am worried when they check it again in March, I'll be at stage
3. At this rate, I'll be on dialysis in about another year.
I learned about me being stage 2 before knowing my Mom had any kidney
disease. And my doctor told me that it isn't do to the drugs they are
giving me. But I now have serious doubts. And I never heard of Actos
causing kidney disease, has anybody? Luckily that isn't one of my drugs,
but still.
I am still taking my insulin and Prilosec. Although I quit the following
drugs just in case:
Multivitamins
Aspirin 81mg
Lisinopril 5mg (for blood pressure)
Metoprolol Tartrate 25mg 2x (for blood pressure)
Simvastatin 40mg (for cholesterol)
Calcium 1000MG
Magnesium Oxide
Thiamine
Fish Oil
I have my vitals and lab reports if somebody wants to see them. I
sometimes think medical science creates as many problems as they are
trying to solve. And sometimes, we pay the price for their mistakes. Sad
isn't it? :-(
--
Bill
DX 2002 (ignored till 4/2007)
A1c 4/2007 10.5
A1c 11/2008 6.1
Cheri
news:hjsmiv$lc3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I'm really very sorry to hear about your father, your mother and your own
problems with the kidneys. It must be very hard on all of you. I don't
advocate giving up medication without talking to your doctor, but I think we
all need to be vigilant with the side effects, keep on top of anything that
seems out of order with our bodies when taking meds, and not be afraid to
take the doctor on if need be. Good luck.
Cheri
BillW50
Cheri typed on Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:33:52 -0800:
> I'm really very sorry to hear about your father, your mother and your
> own problems with the kidneys. It must be very hard on all of you. I
> don't advocate giving up medication without talking to your doctor,
> but I think we all need to be vigilant with the side effects, keep on
> top of anything that seems out of order with our bodies when taking
> meds, and not be afraid to take the doctor on if need be. Good luck.
>
> Cheri
Thanks Cheri. Although being vigilant with the side effects doesn't even
to seem to help. Since I never heard of Actos causing a problem with
kidney disease, have you? Actos totally destroyed her kidneys.
Apparently even the doctor who is on the board of trustees at the
hospital doesn't know this either.
I heard this story (no I don't have references to it right now). But it
sounded very sickening to me. I believe it had to do about depression
meds and their side effects. And the FDA knew about them, but kept
doctors from knowing the truth about them. And when the FDA was
questioned, the FDA stated that doctors don't need to know. And if this
is true, this is very sick.
This is a very sick world we live in. That reminds me of when Judge
Dawson said: "I will not allow the law in my courtroom!". Thus even
having the law on your side means nothing in this sick world!
--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3
Fandango
for at least 10-12 yrs. If I ever need an rx med it'd be amaryl which
unlike glyburide is heart safe. I wouldn't take metformin because of
it's link to Alzehimer's. I've been taking creatine and doing ever more
push ups and my numbers are getting to be very normal. On Tue I was 96 2
hrs after mac and cheese and broccoli.
Ozgirl
Bill, not saying Actos is not the culprit but higher than normal bg is a
proven factor in kidney disease. As far as you are concerned you have tossed
out one of the mot important kidney protectors in your arsenal - the
Lisinopril. What bg average is your mum (and you) currently? Also you
dropped a beta blocker. The Metoprolol. Not only does that drug need to be
withdrawn very slowly it is also prescribed for serious heart problems. I
think you are more than silly to drop your meds without medical advice. You
are on those drugs for a reason. If you want to improve your kidney function
you should be finding ways to gain better control of your bg's.
Julie Bove
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hjsmiv$lc3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Just curious. How did they find out that you have kidney disease? What
sort of test was it?
BillW50
Julie Bove typed on Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:45:30 -0800:
I am just a lay person, but they test for lots of things in my blood
twice a year. And reading the test results, two of my readings are
flagged for chronic kidney disease.
Cheatinine = 1.4mg/dL (normal is 0.8 - 1.3)
eGFR = 56mL/min (less than 60 is bad, less than 15 is complete kidney
failure)
They also test for toxins in your blood that the kidneys are supposed to
deal with.
Sodium
Potassium
Chloride
CO2
Anion Gap
Calcium
Total Bilirubin
AST
ALT
Alkaline Phosphatase
Cholesterol
Triglyceride
LDL
HDL
PSA
TSH
I know sodium and potassium has to be eliminated the best one can with
poor kidney function. They are found in almost everything we eat, so it
is a very hard diet to follow. So those two at least increases in the
blood if the kidneys are having trouble. And mine both are right on the
edge of being too high. So I believe I also should eliminate both the
best I can from my diet. Even though they are not telling me to yet.
And when you having failing kidneys, your diet totally changes. And
everything you were told that was good for you and bad for you before,
gets turned upside down. Even following a diabetic diet is now wrong for
one with kidney disease. Such as things you should stay away from
because you are a diabetic, you must now eat because of your poor
kidneys.
Julie Bove
"BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
Thanks! The creatinine in my urine is slightly high but my bloodwork came
back okay.
My SIL is a nurse who does dialysis, so I know the diet is a tough one.
BillW50
Ozgirl typed on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:32:18 +1000:
> Bill, not saying Actos is not the culprit but higher than normal bg
> is a proven factor in kidney disease.
That maybe true. But the weird thing is both of us have kept our BG low
for years. So the belief is high glucose levels is what leads to chronic
kidney disease? Funny, the two of us with low BG are the ones that have
failing kidneys. And the other ones I know that has high BG have
perfectly functioning kidneys.
> As far as you are concerned you
> have tossed out one of the mot important kidney protectors in your
> arsenal - the Lisinopril.
Is that one that protects the kidneys? I remember the doctor saying that
or it was the either Metoprolol Tartrate which does this. And I can't
remember if it was to protect the liver or the kidneys? So you are
saying it is Lisinopril and it protects the kidneys?
Well that means the other one Metoprolol Tartrate is the one that could
harm the kidneys. I don't understand why I would even need Metoprolol
Tartrate at all? As Lisinopril also takes care of blood pressure too.
Then why take both and one can be harmful?
> What bg average is your mum (and you)
> currently?
Her BG was always super low for years. We always complained to her
doctor to do something since she would crash 3 or 4 times per week. And
often in the 50's to 80's range. My Dad got so tired of her being so low
all of the time and the doctor doing nothing about it. He started to
remove some of her diabetic meds (Actos, Metformin, and I forgot the
third one she was taking). And her BG got up to normal levels again. But
the doctor chewed my Dad out and ordered full meds again.
And all of this time he was overloading her up on meds that was killing
her as we later learned from other doctors. And destroyed her kidneys.
Why on Earth would a doctor make somebody sicker and sicker and causes
higher and higher medical bills on purpose for?
> Also you dropped a beta blocker. The Metoprolol. Not only
> does that drug need to be withdrawn very slowly it is also prescribed
> for serious heart problems.
Yes I know this sort of. But here is my story. First of all, I have no
heart problems at all except borderline high blood pressure that I had
all of my life. Also in the past, most doctors said I don't need meds
for it and the one that did years ago, I never taken them.
Secondly, I was taking a very small dose of it anyway. I also monitored
by blood pressure while I quit taking them and if something were going
wrong and scary, I would have gone back on them once again. So I figured
the risk was very small.
And I didn't have an ED problem until my doctor scared me and put me on
all of these meds. And I lost my GF and I can't blame her either. I
don't want to have a relationship having this problem, well I do but
what good would it do? And ED meds are worthless for me. So maybe
quitting all of these meds will get the blood circulating once again and
things will start to work again. Well hopefully.
> I think you are more than silly to drop
> your meds without medical advice.
I have had and other people have had lots of medical advice that has
been harmful. So sometimes it is better to not listen to them anyway.
> You are on those drugs for a reason.
And it appears the reason is to keep you ill so you have to keep going
to doctors and getting more drugs. At least it totally looks this way.
> If you want to improve your kidney function you should be
> finding ways to gain better control of your bg's.
First my Mom's and mine BG are perfectly normal. And since my Mom is now
on insulin like my Dad and myself, BG control is very easy with
controlling dosage and diet. Mine is normally between 80 to 110 most of
the time because I get very sick if I eat more than say 3 to 4 oz of
food per day. Liquids seem to be okay. But I don't normally drink soda,
milk, OJ or anything except coffee black and water.
And I believe I am helping my kidneys by getting away from chemicals
(which includes meds that makes my kidneys work harder). And with low
blood pressure (on meds), the kidneys needs blood pressure to work
better. So slighter higher blood pressure means better circulation,
better kidney function, and hopefully the ED problem will disappear too.
So I don't see anything wrong in my thinking. And being on all of those
meds were making things go from bad to worse anyway. So what is the
harm?
And I don't know what to tell my doctor in March? They don't take too
kindly that you are not taking your meds and you don't want to take them
regardless what they say. But I want to know what my lab readings are
and if what I am doing is improving my kidneys. And I don't want to take
any other meds until I get the results from my lab work. If there is
improvement, I am not going back on meds regardless. If things are
worse, well maybe the meds aren't harming my kidneys. Then maybe I will
go back on them.
And the cholesterol med. I don't have high cholesterol anyway. But a lot
of doctors believe if you are a diabetic, you need to have better than
average levels. And I get upset when they think LDL is bad. As that is
old 1970's thinking. Later we learned that it isn't high LDL that causes
heart problems, but just the Pattern B LDL. And Pattern A LDL is
actually harmless and it is very good for you. Yet they don't test your
pattern LDL cholesterol. It is like the blind leading the blind when it
comes to medical care.
Cheri
> Well that means the other one Metoprolol Tartrate is the one that could
> harm the kidneys. I don't understand why I would even need Metoprolol
> Tartrate at all? As Lisinopril also takes care of blood pressure too. Then
> why take both and one can be harmful?
I don't know. Recently my doctor prescribed both of those meds to me, due to
him saying my BP was high and my heart was beating too fast. I do not
consider 154/80 to be high enough to warrant two drugs, plus I had been
sick, coughing, and struggling to breathe, so *I* think that was why my
heart rate and BP were elevated. At any rate, I did not fill them, and won't
for now. I'll be checked again in early March, so we'll see. YMMV
Cheri
MI
On 1/28/10 6:36 PM, in article hjthl...@news3.newsguy.com, "Cheri"
<che...@newsguy.com> wrote:
My husband was prescribed Metoprolol for the same reason as you---to slow
down his heart beat. He had atrial fibrillation. He was also on Altace
(Ramapril).
--
Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 10mg. Singulair,
50mcg. Synthroid, 10mg. Altace,
500/50mg. Advair
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Julie Bove
"MI" <quilch...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:C787B2A0.48EF7%quilch...@shaw.ca...
>
>
>
> On 1/28/10 6:36 PM, in article hjthl...@news3.newsguy.com, "Cheri"
> <che...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> "BillW50" <Bil...@aol.kom> wrote in message
>> news:hjtc6m$uhl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>> Well that means the other one Metoprolol Tartrate is the one that could
>>> harm the kidneys. I don't understand why I would even need Metoprolol
>>> Tartrate at all? As Lisinopril also takes care of blood pressure too.
>>> Then
>>> why take both and one can be harmful?
>>
>> I don't know. Recently my doctor prescribed both of those meds to me, due
>> to
>> him saying my BP was high and my heart was beating too fast. I do not
>> consider 154/80 to be high enough to warrant two drugs, plus I had been
>> sick, coughing, and struggling to breathe, so *I* think that was why my
>> heart rate and BP were elevated. At any rate, I did not fill them, and
>> won't
>> for now. I'll be checked again in early March, so we'll see. YMMV
>>
>> Cheri
>>
> My husband was prescribed Metoprolol for the same reason as you---to slow
> down his heart beat. He had atrial fibrillation. He was also on Altace
> (Ramapril).
I took it briefly for the same reason, even though my Endo. at the time said
it was contraindicated for diabetics. He is the one who made me
hyperthyroid and this caused a rapid heartbeat.
Cheri
news:7sgfic...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Cheri wrote:
>
>> I don't know. Recently my doctor prescribed both of those meds to me, due
>> to him saying my BP was high and my heart was beating too fast. I do not
>> consider 154/80 to be high enough to warrant two drugs, plus I had been
>> sick, coughing, and struggling to breathe, so *I* think that was why my
>> heart rate and BP were elevated. At any rate, I did not fill them, and
>> won't for now. I'll be checked again in early March, so we'll see. YMMV
>>
>
> doctor's offices, but I have white coat hypertension in spades, like
> 160/100, measured by both my doc and my own cuff when I've brought it in.
>
> Best to test when you've been resting for 15 minutes, inactive, at home to
> see what you average.
>
> You're right that both the struggle for oxygen and the hormones that
> stress produces raise bp and hr.
>
> Susan
No, but I'm considering buying one. When I took my MIL to a heart doctor he
said that she should throw hers away because they are not accurate. That was
many years ago though, so probably a big improvement since then. I have been
tested 2 or 3 times during the same office visits and the readings are
always lower after a few minutes, so one nurse did say that she thinks it
could be white coat syndrome at times. Dunno for sure though.
Cheri
Kurt
> No, but I'm considering buying one. When I took my MIL to a heart doctor he
> said that she should throw hers away because they are not accurate. That was
> many years ago though, so probably a big improvement since then. I have been
> tested 2 or 3 times during the same office visits and the readings are
> always lower after a few minutes, so one nurse did say that she thinks it
> could be white coat syndrome at times. Dunno for sure though.
>
> Cheri
I have a couple of bp monitors and like the Omron the best. I take it
to my doctor and it is always within points of their industrial
monitor so I trust the accuracy at home. If you do buy one, make sure
you get an arm bp monitor vs. a wrist one. Here's what I recommend:
http://www.omronhealthcare.com/products/186-home-products-blood-pressure-monitors
Kurt
W. Baker
: http://www.omronhealthcare.com/products/186-home-products-blood-pressure-monitors
: Kurt
My endo suggested I get am Omron, but wanted the arm cuff kind as he felt
it was more accurate than the wrist models.
Mine also gets calibrated periodicaly with the doctor's .
Wendy
Cheri
news:085e41b8-dffb-4e02...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.omronhealthcare.com/products/186-home-products-blood-pressure-monitors
Kurt
=========
Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
Cheri
Kurt
> "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:085e41b8-dffb-4e02...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 29, 8:52 am, "Cheri" <cher...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > No, but I'm considering buying one. When I took my MIL to a heart doctor
> > he
> > said that she should throw hers away because they are not accurate. That
> > was
> > many years ago though, so probably a big improvement since then. I have
> > been
> > tested 2 or 3 times during the same office visits and the readings are
> > always lower after a few minutes, so one nurse did say that she thinks it
> > could be white coat syndrome at times. Dunno for sure though.
>
> > Cheri
>
> I have a couple of bp monitors and like the Omron the best. I take it
> to my doctor and it is always within points of their industrial
> monitor so I trust the accuracy at home. If you do buy one, make sure
> you get an arm bp monitor vs. a wrist one. Here's what I recommend:
>
>
> Kurt
>
> =========
>
> Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
>
> Cheri
It's one of those IMO things based on experience and talking with my
healthcare team. I had a wrist cuff a few years ago and it was not
accurate when compared to my doctor's monitor. His nurse explained
that was typical of those patients smart enough to bring in their
monitors when they came in that had wrist cuffs. If you google which
is better you will find a mix of articles both pro and con about wrist
cuffs. So, for me anyway, it was my choice based on a relatively small
sample of my own trials and listening to doctors and nurses. Whatever
you choose, it is better than not having anything.
Kurt
TaniO
(in article <hjv3q...@news5.newsguy.com>):
My cardiologist prefers the Omron wrist model. I have to keep a daily record
and bring it in with the monitor. We then check the monitor in his office.
I, too, am a white coat victim. Always was. But my bp is actually high on
its own.
TaniO
> Cheri
>
>
Kurt
>
> Cheri wrote:
>
> =========
>
>
>
> > Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
>
> It isn't.
>
> Susan
"...in my opinion."
Just adding three words that rarely make their way into your know-it-
all declarative statements here.
Kurt
Kurt
> On Jan 29, 9:23 am, "Cheri" <cher...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
>
> Cheri
As I said, like most things you will find conflicting studies/
opinions. Wrist cuffs are often times used by people who are obese and
cannot use traditional store bought commercial bp devices. Also, body
position when testing is much more important with the wrist cuff and
subject to more errors if you are not positioned just right.
Here is another view:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11910297
"CONCLUSION: The results suggest that wrist-cuff devices in the
present form are inadequate for self-measurement of blood pressure
and, thus, are inadequate for general use or clinical and practical
use. However, there is much possibility in wrist-cuff device and the
accuracy and reliability of wrist-cuff device are warranted by an
improvement of technology."
Kurt
Peter G. (Bigbird)
> x-no-archive: yes
<<snip>>
>
> The Omron wrist cuff makes a sound that lets you know when you have it
> properly positioned in relation to your heart before it inflates. Omron
> products, from pedometers to bp cuffs, have typically rated higher for
> accuracy than other, costlier products.
>
> Susan
I totally agree on this. I have an Omron wrist cuff model (HEM-637). I've
compared it to the automatic arm cuff units the VA uses up here and the
conventional mercury sphygmomanometer in my doctor's office. Mine compares
well with both.
I also have another wrist cuff model that has a built in bg test ability.
It doesn't do either function with any repeatability or accuracy compared to
my Omron and One Touch II.
I think the position sensor in the Omron is important to it's accuracy. I
wouldn't buy anything else at this point.
One thing that helps with BP readings is to take a moment or two before
starting the reading and just relax and let go. Bleed off the built up
tension and stress. I've demonstrated this to the VA nurses and they think
I'm tricking them somehow... :-))
Peter G.
(bigbird)
Cheri
Kurt
==========
Thanks Kurt.
Cheri
Cheri
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> http://bio-medical.com/news_display.cfm?newsid=60
>
> Accuracy of a wrist blood pressure monitor
>
> The traditional way of measuring blood pressure uses a cuff that goes on
> the upper arm. Recently, wrist monitors have been introduced that are much
> smaller and easier to use than arm monitors. They also have the advantage
> that the same cuff size can be used in fat and thin people, because the
> diameter of the wrist is affected little by obesity, in comparison with
> the upper arm.
> A study conducted in Switzerland compared the blood pressure measured by a
> wrist monitor (the Omron R3) with the traditional mercury sphygmomanometer
> measuring blood pressure from the upper arm, and a catheter placed
> directly in the artery, which is the 'gold standard' of blood pressure
> measurement. It was done in 100 patients who were undergoing
> catheterization of their hearts, which entailed measurement of blood
> pressure from inside the major arteries.
>
> *******It was found that the wrist monitor gave readings that were a
> little closer to the pressure measured directly from the artery than the
> readings given by the mercury sphygmomanometer.******
>
> Doctor’s Comments
>
> This study shows that the Omron wrist monitor can give accurate
> measurements of blood pressure, even when it gives readings that differ
> from the conventional mercury sphygmomanometer. The main source of error
> with the wrist monitors is that the monitor has to be at the level of the
> heart when the reading is taken (which was not a problem with this study,
> because the patients were all lying flat when the readings were taken).
>
> Where It Was Published
>
> S Watson and colleagues. Accuracy of a new wrist cuff oscillometric blood
> pressure device. Comparison with intra-arterial and mercury manometer.
> American Journal of Hypertension 1998; p.1469
>
> By: Thomas Pickering, MD, DPhil, FRCP, Director of Integrative and
> Behavioral Cardiology Program of the Cardiovascular Institute at Mount
> Sinai School of Medicine, New York.
>
> ************************
>
>
> The Omron wrist cuff makes a sound that lets you know when you have it
> properly positioned in relation to your heart before it inflates. Omron
> products, from pedometers to bp cuffs, have typically rated higher for
> accuracy than other, costlier products.
>
> Susan
Thanks Susan.
Nicky
>In news:7see39...@mid.individual.net,
>Ozgirl typed on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:32:18 +1000:
>> Bill, not saying Actos is not the culprit but higher than normal bg
>> is a proven factor in kidney disease.
>
>That maybe true. But the weird thing is both of us have kept our BG low
>for years. So the belief is high glucose levels is what leads to chronic
>kidney disease? Funny, the two of us with low BG are the ones that have
>failing kidneys. And the other ones I know that has high BG have
>perfectly functioning kidneys.
Bill, we're talking about your readings an hour after eating - not a
bg reading that's fluctuating enough to send you low. What are your
1-hour post meal readings like?
Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 150ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.2% BMI 26
Ozgirl
I use a self inflating one as opposed to manually pumping it. I think it is
Omron, it is still not unpacked from my recent house move. I have found it
very accurate in comparison to whoever doctor I am using at the time.
Cheri
news:7sh2go...@mid.individual.net...
Thanks to all for the info, the consensus seems to be Omron, so Omron it
will be.
Cheri
Ozgirl
> "Kurt" <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:085e41b8-dffb-4e02...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> No, but I'm considering buying one. When I took my MIL to a heart
>> doctor he
>> said that she should throw hers away because they are not accurate.
>> That was
>> many years ago though, so probably a big improvement since then. I
>> have been
>> tested 2 or 3 times during the same office visits and the readings
>> are always lower after a few minutes, so one nurse did say that she
>> thinks it could be white coat syndrome at times. Dunno for sure
>> though. Cheri
>
> I have a couple of bp monitors and like the Omron the best. I take it
> to my doctor and it is always within points of their industrial
> monitor so I trust the accuracy at home. If you do buy one, make sure
> you get an arm bp monitor vs. a wrist one. Here's what I recommend:
>
> http://www.omronhealthcare.com/products/186-home-products-blood-pressure-monitors
>
> Kurt
>
> =========
>
> Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
>
> Cheri
I had a wrist one prior to my arm cuff one and it always showed a much lower
BP than what my doc said it was. When I changed to the arm cuff one the
difference at home between the two was quite significant. Any time I have
discussed wrist v arm cuff to doctors they have always said not to use the
wrist one because of proven inaccuracy so I went with the majority.
Ozgirl
>> On Jan 29, 9:23 am, "Cheri" <cher...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
>>
>> Cheri
>
> As I said, like most things you will find conflicting studies/
> opinions. Wrist cuffs are often times used by people who are obese and
> cannot use traditional store bought commercial bp devices. Also, body
> position when testing is much more important with the wrist cuff and
> subject to more errors if you are not positioned just right.
When I was obese my doctor had a regular sized cuff. It always showed
perfect BP! When he eventually got a larger cuff for his larger patients the
opposite result was shown. Goodness knows how many years I had hypertension
for and thought I was ok.
Ozgirl
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Cheri wrote:
> =========
>>
>> Why is the arm bp monitor better if you don't mind my asking?
>>
>
>
>
> Susan
You mean in your experience. That hasn't been my experience, nor the
experience of some of my doctors who recommended against the wrist kind.
Ozgirl
situations my doctors have found the opposite as have I. Just like people in
here find their WOE works differently to supposed similar WOE studies.
Sometimes personal experience counts for a lot.
Susan wrote:
> Susan
BillW50
Well if I eat, it is usually just once. And one hour after I eat my
readings were for the last 6 days:
28 THU 129 -> I didn't take my insulin all day. Thus why high.
27 WED 76
26 TUE 61
25 MON 71
24 SUN 100
23 SAT 55
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Ubuntu 9.10 Netbook Remix
Ozgirl
> One thing that helps with BP readings is to take a moment or two
> before starting the reading and just relax and let go. Bleed off the
> built up tension and stress. I've demonstrated this to the VA nurses
> and they think I'm tricking them somehow... :-))
Biofeedback, I use a similar technique often. There have been times when I
have rushed to a doc's appt and gasp! found I was taken in immediately :) No
time for the traditional "rest" period before BP measurement.
Ozgirl
> "Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
>> The Omron wrist cuff makes a sound that lets you know when you have
>> it properly positioned in relation to your heart before it inflates.
>> Omron products, from pedometers to bp cuffs, have typically rated
>> higher for accuracy than other, costlier products.
>>
>> Susan
>
> Thanks Susan.
I have always bought Omron products (including the wrist one I had). Keep in
mind that what works for one person may not have the same effect in another,
just like carbs and bg's amongst individuals. The best way is to take you
chosen product with you when you go to the doc and compare in the doctor's
rooms.
Bill who putters
"Ozgirl" <are_we_t...@maccas.com> wrote:
Guess I am old fashioned. Your age over 100 was normal. This in the
time when diabetes, obesity, heart disease was rare. 30 years maybe 50
years ago. When your doc gave you a handful of colored pills and even
touched you.
Bill
..............
USF studies show link among Alzheimer's disease, Down syndrome and
atherosclerosis
January 14, 2010 @ 5:06 pm � Filed under Alzheimer's and Neurosciences,
Research Really Matters, USF Health News
�Print This Post | �Email This Post
Studies implicate damage inflicted by amyloid protein as shared disease
mechanism
Tampa, FL (Jan. 15, 2010) -- Nearly 20 years ago Huntington Potter
kicked up a storm of controversy with the idea that Down syndrome and
Alzheimer�s were the same disease. Now the evidence is in: He was right.
And that�s not all. Down syndrome, artery-clogging cardiovascular
disease, and possibly even diabetes, appear to share a common disease
mechanism with Alzheimer�s disease, Dr. Potter and colleagues at the
Florida Alzheimer�s Disease Research Center, USF Health Byrd Alzheimer�s
Institute, recently reported.
The researchers� two papers � one in Molecular Biology of the Cell and
the other in PLoS ONE -- implicate the Alzheimer�s-associated protein
beta amyloid (amyloid protein), which damages the microtubule transport
system responsible for moving chromosomes, proteins and other cargo
around inside cells. Both studies were done in mice and humans cell
cultures modeling Alzheimer�s disease. Together, the laboratory
discoveries suggest that protecting the microtubule network from this
amyloid damage might be an effective way to prevent or even reverse
Alzheimer�s disease and associated disorders.
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Ozgirl
Modern day Omron anyway. Years ago I bought an Omron and it was the same one
pharmacies were using. They stopped using that one becasue of inaccuracies
so I stopped using mine. The later models are much improved.
BillW50
My Mom used a Samsung SS-303 wrist BP meter for years. Although she
didn't know, but it reads almost half of the one at the Dr office. So
she got an Omron HEM-670IT wrist BP meter and it is much better. I
myself use a Life-Source UA-767 with a cuff. It also seems to be very
accurate.
BillW50
> Nicky wrote:
>
>> Bill, we're talking about your readings an hour after eating - not a
>> bg reading that's fluctuating enough to send you low. What are your
>> 1-hour post meal readings like?
>>
>
> ACCORD has proven that has high risks.
>
> Susan
My Mom was on Actos, Metformin, and another one. And she was very low
for a number of years on them. And she developed full blown kidney failure.
I, OTOH only use insulin to control my BG and mine is also kept low too.
And I have stage 2 (probably 3 by now) kidney disease. So at this rate I
am going, I have one more year and my kidneys will be shot too.
My Dad takes both oral and insulin meds. Although he keeps his much
higher, like 130 to 170 for fasting numbers. And one hour post meal, his
is often in the 200's. And as far as we know, his kidneys is just fine.
And if it wasn't for his late stage cancer, he would be in great shape
today.
BillW50
>
> BillW50 wrote:
>
>> My Mom was on Actos, Metformin, and another one. And she was very low
>> for a number of years on them. And she developed full blown kidney
>> failure.
>
> with drugs appear to cause problems that good control with diet does not.
You know Susan... that would make a lot of sense. Although I do use diet
and I can skip my insulin for up to 3 days. Although it really seems to
me that if one still produces insulin, but not enough for diet alone. It
seems like adding just enough insulin to give you body a break for a bit
of making its own, it will take care of the post meal peaks for you on
its own. I just take care of it the other times.
>> I, OTOH only use insulin to control my BG and mine is also kept low
>> too. And I have stage 2 (probably 3 by now) kidney disease. So at this
>> rate I am going, I have one more year and my kidneys will be shot too.
>
> The numbers you report seem to be much lower than what is required for
> good control. Insulin carries risks, too, if it's in high dosages.
Well I have been adding more fast acting insulin pre-meal to eliminate
any peak for my post meal readings. Although I don't think this part has
anything to do with my kidney problems. As I wasn't as good before and
my kidneys started failing just before eliminating the peaks. So I don't
know about that.
>> My Dad takes both oral and insulin meds. Although he keeps his much
>> higher, like 130 to 170 for fasting numbers. And one hour post meal,
>> his is often in the 200's. And as far as we know, his kidneys is just
>> fine. And if it wasn't for his late stage cancer, he would be in great
>> shape today.
>>
>
> I'm really sorry for your kidney trouble and your mom's. I wonder if
> your family has some sort of heritable condition or predisposition to it?
>
> Susan
Thanks Susan. Nope, nobody in the history has ever had any kidney
problems. This is all new in our family. But so is diabetes. Nobody had
this either in the past. Everybody in the past just died of old age
before without any medical problems. Something recently that we are
exposed to must be the cause of it all. I am sure of it.
Chris Malcolm
> Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
>> One thing that helps with BP readings is to take a moment or two before
>> starting the reading and just relax and let go. Bleed off the built up
>> tension and stress. I've demonstrated this to the VA nurses and they think
>> I'm tricking them somehow... :-))
> If I'm not mistaken, ideally one is supposed to rest/cease activity for
> 15 minutes prior to taking a bp reading. I usually manage 3 at most. :-)
Out of curiosity I always keep taking readings until they stop going
down. With the exception of just after prolonged very strenuous
exercise that never takes more than five minutes. But heart recovery
times vary greatly between individuals.
--
Chris Malcolm
bj
"Chris Malcolm" <c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7shc0f...@mid.individual.net...
> Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
>> Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
>
>>> One thing that helps with BP readings is to take a moment or two before
>>> starting the reading and just relax and let go. Bleed off the built up
>>> tension and stress. I've demonstrated this to the VA nurses and they
>>> think
>>> I'm tricking them somehow... :-))
>
>> If I'm not mistaken, ideally one is supposed to rest/cease activity for
>> 15 minutes prior to taking a bp reading. I usually manage 3 at most.
>> :-)
>
Of course, they *never* do it this way in the doctor's office -- there, it's
all assistant rushes the patient in & has that cuff on before you've hardly
sat down at all. At my hospital (where my endo is) they seem to resent the
time it takes me to drop my purse before they take my weight; I take my
shoes off too.
I'm probable a very annoying victim over there.
I know this is going to happen, so when my turn comes I "amble"; I also
refuse to answer their questions *while* they're taking bp but rather try to
shut my eyes & zen out for a few seconds. Of course, you're usually not
seated in a real chair to relax in either.
No wonder so many people have "white coat syndrome!" Half of it is probably
more like "Bad Technique Syndrome."
bj
Kurt
> People are missing the point
Not surprisingly, the one that seems to be missing the point...is you.
You're stating everything as fact when it is just your opinion.
Kurt
Alice Faber
Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> bj wrote:
>
> > Of course, they *never* do it this way in the doctor's office -- there,
> > it's all assistant rushes the patient in & has that cuff on before
> > you've hardly sat down at all. At my hospital (where my endo is) they
> > seem to resent the time it takes me to drop my purse before they take my
> > weight; I take my shoes off too.
>
> I've considered this often, too. Plus they always seem to test the
> right, not the left arm, which may not be a hyooge deal, but it
> supposedly is preferable to do the left.
I put stuff down also, and take my keys out of my pockets. In addition,
if I've been waiting any amount of time, I finish the row in my knitting
before I gather my things to go in.
--
"[xxx] has very definite opinions, and does not suffer fools lightly.
This, apparently, upsets the fools."
---BB cuts to the pith of a flame-fest
MI
On 1/29/10 4:30 PM, in article
g9mdnTqSnOzJ4_7W...@giganews.com, "bj"
<bjon...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
I guess my GP and Endo are unique. Neither of them take my blood pressure
until just before I leave their offices. I have sat quietly and talked to
them for 10 or 15 minutes and then they take it right where I have been
sitting since I got there.
--
Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 10mg. Singulair,
50mcg. Synthroid, 10mg. Altace,
500/50mg. Advair
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Julie Bove
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Peter G. (Bigbird) wrote:
>
>> One thing that helps with BP readings is to take a moment or two before
>> starting the reading and just relax and let go. Bleed off the built up
>> tension and stress. I've demonstrated this to the VA nurses and they
>> think I'm tricking them somehow... :-))
>>
>
>
> If I'm not mistaken, ideally one is supposed to rest/cease activity for 15
> minutes prior to taking a bp reading. I usually manage 3 at most. :-)
Exactly, but do they let you do this at the Drs. office?
When I lived on Cape Cod (which I hated), I went to the military medical
facility up until the time that I got pregnant. Then they sent me to
regular Drs. Anyway... They had a station set up strictly to do BP before
you entered the room. One guy who took BPs was from Seattle. He too hated
Cape Cod and would talk excitedly to me about home. I discovered that this
really raised my BP when he took it. To the point where sadly (because I
liked him) I would request another person to do my BP. Then it would be
lower.
My Dr. at the time had me monitor my BP at home and it was always low to
normal.
Peppermint Patootie
"bj" <bjon...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> I know this is going to happen, so when my turn comes I "amble"; I also
> refuse to answer their questions *while* they're taking bp but rather try to
> shut my eyes & zen out for a few seconds. Of course, you're usually not
> seated in a real chair to relax in either.
> No wonder so many people have "white coat syndrome!" Half of it is probably
> more like "Bad Technique Syndrome."
> bj
>
I totally agree. My fabulous first endo would hold my arm on his and
tell me to relax it when he took my BP. Result: I was usually under
110/70. Rarely have I found any medical assistant who does anything
other than make me hold my arm up while they work the gadgets. I'm
never showing as over 120/80, but it's never as low as when Bob would
hold my arm up for me.
PP, T2
Kurt
> Except it wasn't my opinion; it was an objective result reported here,
> for anyone who missed it:
But it's still your opinion because there are many other cites that
say the opposite. Instead of just saying, "Hey I have a wrist cuff and
it works good for me" you feel the need to tell everyone that you are
right without the possibility of a differing opinion. This is what you
do all the time in here. You find one study or article that backs up
how YOU see things and proclaim it to be proof positive.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Susan,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare abridged
Kurt
Dennis R
su...@nothanks.org says...
><snip>
> There may be more than diabetes at work here. I wonder if a broad
> search of non diabetes causes for kidney dysfunction might yield
> anything useful?
>
>
> >> I'm really sorry for your kidney trouble and your mom's. I wonder if
> >> your family has some sort of heritable condition or predisposition to it?
> >>
> >> Susan
> >
> > Thanks Susan. Nope, nobody in the history has ever had any kidney
> > problems. This is all new in our family. But so is diabetes. Nobody had
> > this either in the past. Everybody in the past just died of old age
> > before without any medical problems. Something recently that we are
> > exposed to must be the cause of it all. I am sure of it.
> >
>
>
> Susan
From the perspective of someone who was on dialysis and
has a kidney transplant, undiagnosed or uncontrollled
diabetes and or blood pressure was the most common cause
of disease or failure, followed by inherited conditions,
and then other problems (infections and exposure to
toxic levels of subtances - ibuprofen in the case of
kidneys)
See this links:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000471.h
tm
http://www.kidneypatientguide.org.uk/site/fail.php
Dennis (Type 2, Kidney Tx 1995)
Ozgirl
your doctor is content to just keep telling you you are now at stage 1, 2 or
whatever rather than actually finding out why you are at that point or how
you can treat it then you really need to seek specialist advice. Why are you
just accepting this? Dialysis and transplants etc are horrific. No matter
what the reason behind your escalating kidney disease, prevention is always
better than the cure. You freely admit you ignored your diabetes for years
and the latest A1c you showed doesn't really show excellent control. Have
you got a more current A1c than the 6.something you posted? That last A1c
shows that you aren't really getting the numbers you are posting here. Have
you asked the doctor why you were on the beta blocker? Angina? heart
failure? cardiac arrhythmia? I was put on one in my early 20's for migraine
prevention but most people are put on it for one of the above reasons.
I am starting to worry that you are too accepting of the things we are
saying in this newsgroup rather than seeing the person you really need to -
the kidney specialist. We are not doctors, not even close and kidneys are
just so precious. Not something to muck around with or to accept non medical
advice about online. There is an ocassional poster here called Dennis Rekuta
who has kidney failure. Hopefully he will put his 2 cents worth in.
Ozgirl
Was hoping you would see this thread.
Julie Bove
"Kurt" <kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c01fc50-cc99-4c80...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 8:49?am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> Except it wasn't my opinion; it was an objective result reported here,
> for anyone who missed it:
But it's still your opinion because there are many other cites that
say the opposite. Instead of just saying, "Hey I have a wrist cuff and
it works good for me" you feel the need to tell everyone that you are
right without the possibility of a differing opinion. This is what you
do all the time in here. You find one study or article that backs up
how YOU see things and proclaim it to be proof positive.
I've seen a variety of Drs. and none have recommended a wrist cuff or a
finger monitor. All have said to get the arm one.
Chris Malcolm
> On Jan 30, 8:49???am, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
>> Except it wasn't my opinion; it was an objective result reported here,
>> for anyone who missed it:
> But it's still your opinion because there are many other cites that
> say the opposite.
But AFAIK they all suffer from the methodological flaw Susan
mentioned. If you've actually found one which doesn't I'm sure there
are plenty here who would be very interested to read it.
> Instead of just saying, "Hey I have a wrist cuff and
> it works good for me" you feel the need to tell everyone that you are
> right without the possibility of a differing opinion.
But she didn't do that. She explained the problem which the usual
studies ignore and which the study she cited took into
account. Scientific questions aren't settled by a democratic majority
vote. They're settled by understanding. If you understand the point
she made and have a criticism of it, then let's hear your argument
rather than your efforts at telepathy.
--
Chris Malcolm
BillW50
in February 2009 my doctor told me that I had stage 1 chronic kidney
disease. He told me the reason was do to the complications of diabetes.
And he told me that drugs could also cause it, but they check for drugs
being the cause and they are sure it isn't causing the kidney disease.
Although everything I know now, I have my doubts that it isn't drugs.
In February, this was disappointing news for sure. But I thought I would
have many years yet until my kidneys would finally fail. And in August,
I learned that my kidneys were now at stage 2. But my doctor told me the
same thing as before, complications of diabetes was the cause. At this
rate, I will have complete kidney failure sometime next year. So I don't
have many years, but just a couple of years to reverse it. With one year
already gone.
Sadly, my Mom had no warning about her kidneys. Her doctor should have
been monitoring her blood tests like my doctor has been doing. And she
ended up in the hospital in December. There we found out she had total
kidney failure (stage 5). They immediately tried taking her off all meds
to see if her kidneys would recover. And this is what I am trying right
now. But it didn't work for my Mom, her kidneys were too far gone
already.
I am also going to the VA system, so they have their own way of doing
things. And I see some of it as being very good, and some that isn't so
good. But for the latter, they see my kidney disease as being caused by
my diabetes, end of story. But I am not accepting this. As there are
diabetics who are living for decades that never develop kidney disease.
And I know about a dozen diabetics very close, and most of them don't
control their BG levels very well and they don't have kidney disease. So
far, the only link I see are those keeping their BG levels very low of
developing kidney disease.
Since I am going most of the time with my Mom to a kidney specialist, I
see what this would be like. They too blame the kidney disease on
diabetes. And if I go to one, I don't see they would do anything
differently with me. So I must take actions on my own to try to stop
this kidney disease. The first step is to cutout almost all of the
drugs. I still need insulin and Prilosec, I believe. So I am taking
until the next blood test in a couple of months. I never heard of either
linked being linked to kidney disease. But OTOH I never heard that Actos
could do that too, which one doctor said was the cause of my Mom's
kidney disease.
As for why I was taking a beta blocker. well no. no angina, heart
failure, cardiac arrhythmia, or anything else. Only two reasons, I have
borderline BP and I am a diabetic. Thus the VA assumes I am going to
have to be protected against heart disease, whether I have signs or not.
Also most doctors outside of the VA system assume just the same thing. I
believe this is a wrong assumption myself. As only 1 in 50 benefits from
beta blockers. The other 98% of the rest won't at all. And beta blockers
could be harmful if you really don't need them. I really believe I am in
98% camp.
Yes it is true my A1c has been 6.1 to 6.2 for the last couple of years.
The problem was do to a number of reasons. One the medical profession
tells you to take this amount of insulin and you are supposed to stick
to it for 6 months and then they will adjust it 6 months later. I found
this unacceptable. My Dad already knew this was unacceptable many years
before I did and he was adjusting his own BG levels by adjusting his own
insulin dose. He always has been taken 70/30 of Novolin or Novolog. This
is much harder to control than with separate long and short acting
insulins IMHO. Although I feel I am experienced enough and can get those
to work well too if I were ever put on them.
He does a pretty good job, but he doesn't count carbs per se, but
learned what meals require what amount of insulin. Not very scientific
or anything, but it works pretty well with enough experience. Being
scientific it gets very complicated I must say. As you need to count
carbs, fiber, fat, etc to figure out how much of a rise in BG this would
produce. But lots of other factors also need to be accounted for too.
Like infections, drugs, etc. I use the latter approach. As I feel in the
end the results are much better and far tighter control.
And I have experimented with diet and different insulins and dosages. In
the beginning just following the medical recommendations I was going too
low and too high a lot. Learning how insulin affects my BG was a lot
better to control my BG levels. I learned that NPH or any long lasting
insulin is really forgiving. Meaning that you can change the dose amount
a lot and there isn't very likely to give you a low BG or a high without
a lot of warning beforehand. This isn't so with faster acting insulin.
As long acting insulin, the difference for example between 10 units or
20, isn't a whole lot. But with fast acting insulin, this is a huge
difference and you can get into a lot of trouble really fast.
So those A1c figures was mostly controlling my BG levels with long
acting insulin which is pretty safe with experimenting with. The hardest
to get right is the fast acting insulin. And I am still learning but as
you can see, the numbers have been pretty good. As I don't have peek
numbers after a meal anymore. Sometimes I am actually lower one hour
after a meal than I was before a meal. Sometimes too low, but not very
often. So in the last two months I have kept my BG in a very narrow
range and I am sure my next A1c reading will be much lower than 6 (which
we be tested in March).
So I believe am doing what I can as a preventive measure. I am grabbing
all of the knowledge that I can to fight this. And I see what my Mom is
going through and it isn't pretty. And no, I don't want to end up that
way. As I really want my own kidneys to keep doing its job. Diabetes is
bad enough without non-functioning kidneys.
And since I take my Mom to dialyzes about half of the time. She needs a
wheelchair if she has to go. And the people I see at dialyzes looks like
they are really ill people. Like it is a real struggle just to be alive.
And that doesn't sound like a good way to go through life to me. And I
don't know how long the average person can live on dialyze, but it
sounds like a just few years is common.
My Mom's sister has offered one of her kidneys. So it appears she won't
have to do this dialyzes for very long. Although who knows what will
happen for sure in the future. In either case, neither sounds like it is
a very good option to me.
So I am trying to cut out the most common causes of kidney disease and
hoping my next blood test will show improvement. And this test is just a
little more than a month away. If this works, then everything is ok. If
not, then I have to take far more drastic measures. Which to be honest,
I really don't know what more drastic measures would be. And it isn't
like I don't know what is going on. As I see what is happening with my
Mom. And sadly, I am learning more and more everyday. :-(
In news:7sjp43...@mid.individual.net,
Ozgirl typed on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:11:05 +1000:
--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3
Ozgirl
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
> M�ck�� wrote:
>
>> net cop wanna be kurt can't win with facts.
>>
>
> Unless there are other studies comparing cuffs while measuring
> arterial pressure during cathaterization, there are no other relavent
> studies for accuracy.>
The general public aren't using their home BP meters during catheterisation.
A trial for one specific set of folk doesn't necessarily mean it is the
preferred method for the rest of the population. Do you have another cite
that is more general?
Ozlover
> Susan wrote:
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> >
> > M?ck?? wrote:
> >
> >> net cop wanna be kurt can't win with facts.
> >>
> >
> > Unless there are other studies comparing cuffs while measuring
> > arterial pressure during cathaterization, there are no other relavent
> > studies for accuracy.>
>
> The general public aren't using their home BP meters during catheterisation.
Bummer! I was planning to have some fun tonight and now you tell me I
can't!?
> A trial for one specific set of folk doesn't necessarily mean it is the
> preferred method for the rest of the population. Do you have another cite
> that is more general?
--
Frank Slootweg
Dennis R
Bil...@aol.kom says...
>
> So I believe am doing what I can as a preventive measure. I am grabbing
> all of the knowledge that I can to fight this. And I see what my Mom is
> going through and it isn't pretty. And no, I don't want to end up that
> way. As I really want my own kidneys to keep doing its job. Diabetes is
> bad enough without non-functioning kidneys.
>
> And since I take my Mom to dialyzes about half of the time. She needs a
> wheelchair if she has to go. And the people I see at dialyzes looks like
> they are really ill people. Like it is a real struggle just to be alive.
> And that doesn't sound like a good way to go through life to me. And I
> don't know how long the average person can live on dialyze, but it
> sounds like a just few years is common.
>
> My Mom's sister has offered one of her kidneys. So it appears she won't
> have to do this dialyzes for very long. Although who knows what will
> happen for sure in the future. In either case, neither sounds like it is
> a very good option to me.
>
> So I am trying to cut out the most common causes of kidney disease and
> hoping my next blood test will show improvement. And this test is just a
> little more than a month away. If this works, then everything is ok. If
> not, then I have to take far more drastic measures. Which to be honest,
> I really don't know what more drastic measures would be. And it isn't
> like I don't know what is going on. As I see what is happening with my
> Mom. And sadly, I am learning more and more everyday. :-(
>
Bill, I don't know where to start. I have been where
your Mom was. Due to high blood pressure, I was
diagnosed with congenital scarring of 1 kidney at the
age of 19. Before I was 38, I showed up with full blown
kidney failure (creatinine 15.3) at the dialysis unit at
the hospital and spent 4 days in the hospital doing
daily dialysis. To say that the nephrologists and
dialysis R.N.'s were pissed with my medical treatment is
an understatement.
My GP had been treating my blood pressure for several
years, and I had not seen him in more than 6 months.
However, I was incredibly stupid. About 9 months before,
I started losing weight. At 6 months prior, after last
seeing my GP, I lost my appetite. At 3 months prior, I
started vomiting every few days and had trouble climbing
stairs. At 3 weeks prior, I almost had a heart attack
trying to climb some subway stairs in Toronto. I saw the
doctor covering for my GP, and my chest x-ray showed
massive fluid build up on my lungs and heart. A
cardioligist called back a few days later with test
results - my heart wasn't failing, but my kidneys
already had.
In all of those months, I stupidly never said anything
to anyone. Simple blood tests (creatinine, B.U.N, and
uric acid) would have told the story.
I wish your Mom and your sister good luck, but approval
for a kidney transplant is not automatic. There are
tissue compatibility tests (not as straight forward as
you think), health check ups on both parties to see if
both are healthy enough, plus psychological evaluations
of both parties to make sure that the consequences to
both parties are fully and freely accepted by both. They
also have to evaluate whether or not family supports are
in place to insure both recovery and long-term
compliance post-transplant. Living-related donors may or
may not be better matches, but they do improve the odds
of getting off of dialysis sooner rather than later.
The critical key to surviving dialysis until an
alternate treatment (not cure) such as a transplant is
absolure rigid compliance with the individual's fluid
and diet restrictions. The machine has several limits on
what it can cleanse from the blood, and going over those
restrictions makes for a less than successful session
and eventual complications and worsening illness. Any
and all sessions are hard on the heart and other organs,
so strength must be built up by specialized diets and
whatever exercise can be tolerated.
In Canada, dialysis units are almost always run by
government subsidized hospitals. Private enterprise
units like those in the USA are rare. All new patients
and their caregivers are offered special dialysis diet
education by registered renal dietitians. If you were
not offered this, see if your Mom qualifies for it from
insurance or Medicare/Medicaid. If you are not, and you
can't get private consultations, I can try to give you
some good web sources from Canada and Australia. I am
not up on those in the UK.
As for the Actos, it was tested on people with existing
renal impairment and showed no direct problem being
metabolized by the kidneys, but Actos is known to cause
fluid build up, and that is a problem for the heart and
the kidneys. My endo won't let me anywhere near it, even
as a last resort.
Metformin has been around for 40 years or more, and
there is a well known caution for using it with some
degree of renal impairment. Post-transplant, my
creatinine is usally 1.4 to 1.5 (USA), and my endo
started me on metformin carefully. I have been taking
2,500 mg daily since 1998 with no problems.
I take 2 diuretics, an ACE inhibitor, a calcium channel
blocker, metformin, glyburide, acarbose, NPH at bedtime,
3 glaucoma eyedrop meds, prednisone and cyclosporine.
These are all post-transplant, and I have not had any
adverse effects on a transplanted kidney in over 14
years.
Based on my almost 35 years of experiences with kidney
disease, I don't have anything substantive to offer you
in your quest Bill. I can understand your frustration,
but I am not sure I can help you with the direction you
are heading.
As always, Y.M.M.V.
Dennis (T2, Kidney Transplant 1995)
Robert Miles
news:hjtc6m$uhl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In news:7see39...@mid.individual.net,
> Ozgirl typed on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:32:18 +1000:
>> Bill, not saying Actos is not the culprit but higher than normal bg
>> is a proven factor in kidney disease.
>
> That maybe true. But the weird thing is both of us have kept our BG low
> for years. So the belief is high glucose levels is what leads to chronic
> kidney disease? Funny, the two of us with low BG are the ones that have
> failing kidneys. And the other ones I know that has high BG have perfectly
> functioning kidneys.
>
>> As far as you are concerned you
>> have tossed out one of the mot important kidney protectors in your
>> arsenal - the Lisinopril.
>
> Is that one that protects the kidneys? I remember the doctor saying that
> or it was the either Metoprolol Tartrate which does this. And I can't
> remember if it was to protect the liver or the kidneys? So you are saying
> it is Lisinopril and it protects the kidneys?
>
> Well that means the other one Metoprolol Tartrate is the one that could
> harm the kidneys. I don't understand why I would even need Metoprolol
> Tartrate at all? As Lisinopril also takes care of blood pressure too. Then
> why take both and one can be harmful?
>
> Bill
I've had an odd set of side effects when taking both metoprolol
succinate and lisinopril at the same time. The metoprolol side
effects don't show up when I'm taking only metoprolol, but it
then doesn't lower my blood pressure enough. When a relatively
low dose of lisinopril is added, the metoprolol starts working too
much and I get about half the known metoprolol side effects.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
news:hjv3q...@news5.newsguy.com...> news:7sgfic...@mid.individual.net...
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
>> Cheri wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know. Recently my doctor prescribed both of those meds to me,
>>> due to him saying my BP was high and my heart was beating too fast. I do
>>> not consider 154/80 to be high enough to warrant two drugs, plus I had
>>> been sick, coughing, and struggling to breathe, so *I* think that was
>>> why my heart rate and BP were elevated. At any rate, I did not fill
>>> them, and won't for now. I'll be checked again in early March, so we'll
>>> see. YMMV
>>>
>>
>> Cheri, do you have your own cuff? My bp is low normal at home and in
>> some doctor's offices, but I have white coat hypertension in spades, like
>> 160/100, measured by both my doc and my own cuff when I've brought it in.
>>
>> Best to test when you've been resting for 15 minutes, inactive, at home
>> to see what you average.
>>
>> You're right that both the struggle for oxygen and the hormones that
>> stress produces raise bp and hr.
>>
>> Susan
>
> No, but I'm considering buying one. When I took my MIL to a heart doctor
> he said that she should throw hers away because they are not accurate.
> That was many years ago though, so probably a big improvement since then.
> I have been tested 2 or 3 times during the same office visits and the
> readings are always lower after a few minutes, so one nurse did say that
> she thinks it could be white coat syndrome at times. Dunno for sure
> though.
>
> Cheri
>
I'm not sure if I have a similar white coat syndrome, or just get my blood
pressure raised more than expected from the effort of walking from the
waiting room to the examining room.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
> Susan wrote on Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:31:55 -0500:
>> Nicky wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, we're talking about your readings an hour after eating - not a
>>> bg reading that's fluctuating enough to send you low. What are your
>>> 1-hour post meal readings like?
>>>
>>
>> And by what means has bg been kept low? If it's heavy reliance on meds,
>> ACCORD has proven that has high risks.
>>
>> Susan
>
> My Mom was on Actos, Metformin, and another one. And she was very low for
> a number of years on them. And she developed full blown kidney failure.
>
> And I have stage 2 (probably 3 by now) kidney disease. So at this rate I
> am going, I have one more year and my kidneys will be shot too.
>
> higher, like 130 to 170 for fasting numbers. And one hour post meal, his
> is often in the 200's. And as far as we know, his kidneys is just fine.
> And if it wasn't for his late stage cancer, he would be in great shape
> today.
>
> Bill
Is your dad aware of the effect of glucose on cancer?
http://www.ndmnutrition.com/deprived%20of%20glucose%20some%20can%20di
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/64093.php
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/60169.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090817184539.htm
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
it soon enough:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19057893?dopt=Citation
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7796073.stm
Robert Miles
W. Baker
: "Cheri" <che...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
: Robert Miles
My endo always makes me sit on th end of the examining table for a minute
or so. this past week I got a reading of 110/70 so he has reduced myy
Ramiprill to 2 1/2 mgs per day and kept the Avapro at 150 mgs a day. i
used to be on 2 of those avapro, rmipril and a th2 of athird bp med the
name of which is escaping me at the moment! All this with no weight loss
and not enough exercise, so don't ask how I did it:-)
Wendy
BillW50
Robert Miles typed on Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:37:20 -0600:
Interesting! As I have been taking B1 for a couple of years (100mg x2 a
day). Although I cut this one out as well in mid December. So we will
see in mid March if my kidneys have improved or have gotten worse.
--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
BillW50
Robert Miles typed on Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:30:12 -0600:
Hi Robert! I didn't have any kidney disease before taking all of these
meds. And only after I gave in to the doctors request, started taking
them. Then after two years of taking all of these drugs that I don't
think I really need, my kidneys are starting to fail.
My Mom has stage 5 kidney disease for a number of months now and is now
on dialysis. The first thing they did was to stop all of her medications
to see if her kidneys would recover. It didn't. And I am at stage 2 and
I don't want to wait until I am at stage 5 to quit my meds to see if it
helps or not. I want to find out now. Wouldn't you agree?