Dietary Cholesterol
Alan
several recent questions on dietary cholesterol, particularly on eggs
and dairy foods in both newsgroups.
I'm no expert, but to reduce carbs and subsequent BG highs I started
eating eggs for breakfast again when I first started testing. I was
concerned about all the warnings I had received about cholesterol so I
did a little research on the net. From what I found then it appeared
that the cholesterol we create ourselves from eating saturated fats
was far greater than that entering our bloodstream from diet such as
eggs and other animal foods.
I lost those early references but did a little research today and came
up with those that follow.
I would be very interested in discssion of this subject by those more
qualified than me, because the carb limitations of our diabetic diet
force us to consider protein sources which may be high in dietary
cholesterol. To my mind, the danger from that is overshadowed by the
danger from excessive BGs from high carb consumption.
Some references:
Refining, or Rather, Redesigning, the Food Guide Pyramid
Marilyn Porter, RD, CDE
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/porter/i144.shtml
Dietary cholesterol and atherosclerosis.
Excerpt:
"Data indicate that dietary cholesterol has little effect on the
plasma LDL:HDL ratio. Analysis of the available epidemiological and
clinical data indicates that for the general population, dietary
cholesterol makes no significant contribution to atherosclerosis and
risk of cardiovascular disease."
http://tinyurl.com/s4v1
Nutritional and Functional Roles of Eggs in the Diet
Excerpt:
"What consumers may not realize is how little effect changes in
dietary cholesterol intake have on blood levels."
http://tinyurl.com/s4v6
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Jenny
Hundreds of people who have posted on the low carb newsgroup have discovered
that as soon as they cut their carbs to very low levels (under 80 gms a day,
say) their LDL cholesterol drops, their triglycerides drop, and their HDL
goes up. This is with a diet full of fats. These results are now being
seen in the university studies that have been published over the past year
about low carb diets.
It happened to me. My cholesterol dropped about 50 points when I went on a
diet that was 80% fat. My triglyerides normalized and my HDL became
abnormally high (which is good) .
However, for this to work you have to keep the carbs low day in and day out
for a couple months.
During first couple weeks of a low carb diet you may see a rise in
cholesterol. My doctor explained this is true with any successful
weight-loss diet and reflects fat being carried out of cells for disposal.
-- Jenny
Weight: 168.5/137
Diabetes Type II diagnosed 8/1998
Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean
How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats *
Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise
Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:5jsgpv4dhpglsq477...@4ax.com...
Alan
wrote:
>Alan,
>
>Hundreds of people who have posted on the low carb newsgroup have discovered
>that as soon as they cut their carbs to very low levels (under 80 gms a day,
>say) their LDL cholesterol drops, their triglycerides drop, and their HDL
>goes up. This is with a diet full of fats
Hi Jenny
I may not have stated it clearly. My main query is concern over the
primary cause for cholesterol in the bloodstream - whether it is from
ingested cholesterol or saturated fat.
Overall locarb/hi fat diets was not the point of my query. As you
brought it up, I developed my own diet. The fact that it turned out to
be low in carbs and high in protein with minimal unsaturated fats was
a result of my own research and "eating to my meter". I only knowingly
eat saturated fats in dairy products; some cheese in dips and whole
milk in my coffee. I try to minimise it in the meat I eat.
I had never heard of the various lo-carb authors or their diets before
joining the ng.
Results since mid 2002 are:
Weight: was 117 Kg (257 lbs) now 90 Kg (198 lbs), I am 183 cm (6ft)
tall.
HbA1c: was 8.2 now 6.2 (last July).
Triglycerides: was 2.7 (237) now 0.8 (70).
Cholesterol: was 5.8 (223) now 4.8 (185).
HDL: was 1 (38) now1.5 (58)
LDL: was 3.6 (138) now 2.9 (112)
I would have eaten one, sometimes two, eggs for breakfast most days
since mid 2002. About half my meals include small serves of closely
trimmed red meat and the other half mainly fish.
Have you any specific references on cholesterol and triglycerides?
Ted Rosenberg
diet is quite complx, and most diet promoters ignore that.
It has been known fro years that dietary cholesteral does not increase
seum cholesteral. It is beleived that total fats do, bit data is
uncertain aout it.
Alcohol reduced ldl and increases hdl
low carbs tends to drop triglycerides.
Exercise effects the mix even more.
THEN there are some wildly different results based upon genetic backround.
To confuse things further, all of this fluctuates, so if two absolutly
identical people went on two absolutly identical diets, next week one
might be up, and one down.
Over a LONG time, they both should get the same results.
"it works for me" is usually wrong. people check too fast. So, try, but
don't rush to judgment.
Cindy Wells
>
> I have cross-posted to both diabetes groups because I have noticed
> several recent questions on dietary cholesterol, particularly on eggs
> and dairy foods in both newsgroups.
>
> I'm no expert, but to reduce carbs and subsequent BG highs I started
> eating eggs for breakfast again when I first started testing. I was
> concerned about all the warnings I had received about cholesterol so I
> did a little research on the net. From what I found then it appeared
> that the cholesterol we create ourselves from eating saturated fats
> was far greater than that entering our bloodstream from diet such as
> eggs and other animal foods.
>
> I lost those early references but did a little research today and came
> up with those that follow.
>
> I would be very interested in discssion of this subject by those more
> qualified than me, because the carb limitations of our diabetic diet
> force us to consider protein sources which may be high in dietary
> cholesterol. To my mind, the danger from that is overshadowed by the
> danger from excessive BGs from high carb consumption.
The total calories is probably more important than the composition of
the daily calorie intake. (Even saturated fats get broken apart during
digestion. Those fats and cholesterol will be rebuilt as needed to store
excess calories and in proportions based on individual genetics.)
It's certainly better to bring down the bg first and worry less
about the dietary fats and cholesterol. (At least in my opinion.)
Cindy Wells
(who had a school teacher who had genetically high cholesterol from
birth (as had her father) even with medication and diet modification
her cholesterol never went below 200.)
Valley Of Mu_n
wrote:
>From what I found then it appeared
>that the cholesterol we create ourselves from eating saturated fats
>was far greater than that entering our bloodstream from diet such as
>eggs and other animal foods.
This makes no sense.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031021.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Alan
OK. I'm willing to learn. Enlighten me.
Priscilla Ballou
Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:06:08 -0400, "Jenny" <jenny_t...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Alan,
> >
> >Hundreds of people who have posted on the low carb newsgroup have discovered
> >that as soon as they cut their carbs to very low levels (under 80 gms a day,
> >say) their LDL cholesterol drops, their triglycerides drop, and their HDL
> >goes up. This is with a diet full of fats
>
> Hi Jenny
>
> I may not have stated it clearly. My main query is concern over the
> primary cause for cholesterol in the bloodstream - whether it is from
> ingested cholesterol or saturated fat.
From the results coming in now about low-carb diets, it appears that
it's neither of the two possibilities you present. Sounds like there's
evidence mounting that it's ingested carbohydrates. It's pretty clearly
not ingested cholesterol. That boat sailed a while ago.
Priscilla
Loretta Eisenberg
because of high cholesterol.
About two months ago my husband and I decided to eat two eggs a week. I
am tired of eggbeaters. I have no scientific facts to go on I do take
lipitor. Last cholesterol test I was 142 and the next one was 145. I
did notice that my bad cholesterol went up about five points not enough
to make me stop eating the eggs every week and my ldl and hdl leel was
3.0 up from 2.9. Now i do eat small portions of protein topping at
eight ounces a day . I even have chopped liver two or three times a
month. I wonder if I were to eat more of cholesterol foods if I would
stay in this level.
But in essence to me, the 8 eggs a month are not raising my cholesterol
too much If I ate more I think there would be an appreciable difference
Loretta
--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Priscilla Ballou
Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:27:14 -0400, Valley Of Mu_n
> <Nowa...@email.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:29:33 +1000, Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>From what I found then it appeared
> >>that the cholesterol we create ourselves from eating saturated fats
> >>was far greater than that entering our bloodstream from diet such as
> >>eggs and other animal foods.
> >
> >This makes no sense.
> >
> >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031021.html
> >Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
>
> OK. I'm willing to learn. Enlighten me.
Alan, that's the troll.
Priscilla
Idler
doing the next time I check. My cholesterol a year ago was around 170 with
a low HDL of 34 , but very low triglycerides and normal LDL levels.
Mark
"Loretta Eisenberg" <Ron...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25184-3F...@storefull-2191.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Loretta Eisenberg
of me.
Valley Of Mu_n
wrote:
>>>From what I found then it appeared
>>>that the cholesterol we create ourselves from eating saturated fats
>>>was far greater than that entering our bloodstream from diet such as
>>>eggs and other animal foods.
>>
>>This makes no sense.
>>
>>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031021.html
>>Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
>
>OK. I'm willing to learn. Enlighten me.
I ask you to enlighten Mu. Your statement appears to be contradictory.
Eggs and most animal foods are full of sat fat.
Alan
I'll reply to all in this thread (threadlet??) if that's OK.
One, but not the only, reason I started this thread is that there is
general ignorance on the subject.
Those who have been reading on it for a while, such as Priscilla, Ted
and some other respondents appear to agree that eating cholesterol in
food has a minimal effect; although they may disagree on exactly what
causes high blood cholesterol levels. Loretta is prepared to try eggs,
but is nervous about the consequences.
On other threads, when advised to eat eggs or other protein products,
newbies (and some "oldies") almost invariably respond that they can't
do that because of the cholesterol danger. So, they may continue
eating cereal end OJ for breakfast.
I would like to be able to collect medical references (positive,
negative or neutral) to allow me to respond with some authority when
the question is asked again.
To an omnivourous diabetic, eggs and other products containing
cholesterol are such a basic alternative to carbs that any myths
limiting their use in moderation should be laid to rest.
PS. Yeah, I know, DFTT - I hit send before checking on the other
thread
Priscilla Ballou
Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
> I would like to be able to collect medical references (positive,
> negative or neutral) to allow me to respond with some authority when
> the question is asked again.
Here's a mess of stuff on and around the topic which I was given as I
was making my decision on how to treat my diabetes last winter. Sorry I
haven't culled it for you, but you can browse it.
Priscilla
"A recent study involving over 40,000 middle-aged and older American
men over a period of six years found that there was no link between
saturated fat intake and heart disease in men. It also supported the
contention that linolenic acid (a form of fat) is preventive against
heart disease. (Ascherio A et. al. Dietary fat and risk of coronary
heart disease in men: cohort follow up study in the United States.
British Medical Journal, 1996 Jul 13, 313:7049, 84-90.)"
"Several studies have shown that high-carbohydrate low-fat diets lead
to high triglycerides, elevated serum insulin levels, lower HDL
cholesterol levels, and other factors known to raise the risk of
coronary artery disease. (See Liu GC; Coulston AM; Reaven GM. Effect
of high-carbohydrate low-fat diets on plasma glucose, insulin and
lipid responses in hypertriglyceridemic humans. Metabolism, 1983 Aug,
32:8, 750-3. See also Coulston AM; Liu GC; Reaven GM. Plasma glucose,
insulin and lipid responses to high-carbohydrate low-fat diets in
normal humans. Metabolism, 1983 Jan, 32:1, 52-6. See also Olefsky JM;
Crapo P; Reaven GM. Postprandial plasma triglyceride and cholesterol
responses to a low-fat meal. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition,
1976 May, 29:5, 535-9. See also Ginsberg H et. al. Induction of
hypertriglyceridemia by a low-fat diet. Journal of Clin Endocrinol
Metab, 1976 Apr, 42:4, 729-35) "
"The idea that saturated fats cause heart disease is completely wrong,
but the statement has been 'published' so many times over the last
three or more decades that it is very difficult to convince people
otherwise unless they are willing to take the time to read and learn
what...produced the anti-saturated fat agenda." (Dr. Mary Enig,
Consulting Editor to the Journal of the American College of Nutrition,
President of the Maryland Nutritionists Association, and noted lipids
researcher.)
"The diet-heart hypothesis [which suggests that high intake of
saturated fat and cholesterol causes heart disease] has been
repeatedly shown to be wrong, and yet, for complicated reasons of
pride, profit and prejudice, the hypothesis continues to be exploited
by scientists, fund-raising enterprises, food companies and even
governmental agencies. The public is being deceived by the greatest
health scam of the century." (Dr. George V. Mann, participating
researcher in the Framingham study and author of CORONARY HEART
DISEASE: THE DIETARY SENSE AND NONSENSE, Janus Publishing 1993.)
High intake of fats from the Omega-3 group increase HDL cholesterol,
which is considered protective against heart disease. Obviously it
would be difficult to eat an Omega-3 rich diet while following a
traditional fat reduced diet, especially if one were following one of
the popular American diets that has one eating only 20-30 grams of fat
per day. (Franceschini G. et. al. Omega-3 fatty acids selectively
raise high-density lipoprotein 2 levels in healthy volunteers.
Metabolism, 1991 Dec, 40:12, 1283-6. See also Journal of the American
College of Nutrition 1991:10(6);593-601)
A recent American study showed that low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets
(15% protein, 60% carbohydrate, 25% fat) increase risk of heart
disease in post-menopausal women over a higher fat, lower carbohydrate
diet (15% protein, 40% carbohydrate, 45% fat). (Jeppeson, J., et. al.
Effects of low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets on risk factors for
ischemic heart disease in postmenopausal women. American Journal of
Clinical Nutrition, 1997;65:1027-33)
The largest and most comprehensive study on diet and breast cancer to
date, studying over 5,000 women between 1991 and 1994, showed that
women with the lowest intake of dietary fat had a significantly higher
incidence of breast cancer than the women with the highest intake of
dietary fat. It also found that women with the highest intake of
starch had a significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than the
women with the lowest intake of starch. The study found no evidence
that saturated fat had any effect one way or the other on breast
cancer, and that unsaturated fat had a significantly protective effect
against breast cancer. (Franceschi S et. al. Intake of macronutrients
and risk of breast cancer. Lancet; 347(9012):1351-6 1996)
"The commonly-held belief that the best diet for prevention of
coronary heart disease is a low saturated fat, low cholesterol diet is
not supported by the available evidence from clinical trials. In
primary preventions, such diets do not reduce the risk of myocardial
infarction or coronary or all-cause mortality. Cost-benefit analyses
of extensive primary prevention programmes, which are at present
vigorously supported by governments, health departments, and health
educationalists, are urgently required....Similarly, diets focused
exclusively on reduction of saturated fats and cholesterol are
relatively ineffective for secondary prevention and should be
abandoned. There may be other effective diets for secondary prevention
of coronary heart disease but these are not yet sufficiently well
defined or adequately tested." (European Heart Journal, Volume 18,
January 1997.)
"We found no evidence of a positive association between total dietary
fat intake and the risk of breast cancer. There was no reduction in
risk even among women whose energy intake from fat was less than 20
percent of total energy intake. In the context of the Western
lifestyle, lowering the total intake of fat in midlife is unlikely to
reduce the risk of breast cancer substantially." (Hunter, DJ et. al.
Cohort studies of fat intake and the risk of breast cancer - A pooled
analysis. New England Journal of Medicine, 334: (6) FEB 8 1996)
2) Title: DG-DISPATCH - ENDO 99: Diabetics Improve Health With Very
High-Fat,
Low
Carb Diet
Doctor's Guide
June 15, 1999
By Cameron Johnston
Special to DG News
SAN DIEGO, CA -- June 15, 1999 -- A very high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet
has
been shown to have astounding effects in helping type 2 diabetics lose
weight
and improve their blood lipid profiles.
The results of three studies involving such a diet, which is similar to,
but
has a few key differences from the famous "Dr. Atkins Diet", were
presented
today
at the annual meeting of the Endocrine Society.
Dr. James Hays, an endocrinologist and director of the Limestone Medical
Center in Wilmington, DE, admitted that the concept of a high-fat diet in
people
who are already at higher risk of cardiovascular disease might seem
incongruous.
Nonetheless, this study of 157 men and women with type 2 diabetes showed
an
impressive benefit in body mass index (BMI) triglycerides, HDL, LDL and
HbA1c.
Most people are encouraged to reduce the amount of fat in their diets,
particularly saturated fats, and diabetics in particular are advised to
reduce
their
overall caloric intake, Dr. Hays explained in an interview in San Diego
during
the
conference.
Whereas a normal diet would be in the order of 1800 to 2100 calories,
with 60
percent of calories coming from carbohydrates and 30 percent from fat,
patients
in this diet were restricted to 1800 calories per day and were
encouraged to
get
50 percent of their caloric intake from fat, and just 20 percent from
carbohydrates.
The balance of 30 percent would come from proteins.
A whopping 90 percent of the fat content in their diets was saturated
fat,
compared
with just 10 percent that was monounsaturated fat.
"I think this is at least worth considering for any diabetic," Dr. Hays
said in
an interview.
"The thing many diabetics coming into the office don't realize is that
other
forms of
carbohydrates will increase their sugars, too. Dietitians will point them
toward complex carbohydrates ... oatmeal and whole wheat bread, but we
have to
deliver the message that these are carbohydrates that increase blood
sugars,
too."
Higher-fat diets, on the other hand, seem to make the person feel full
faster
so they eat less; higher-fat diets also tend to reduce postprandial
hypoglycemia so the patients feel better after eating.
"Every diabetic comes home from the doctor with instructions as to what
their
diet should consist of, but they're not getting the information from
dietitians about what complex carbohydrates they should eat,"
Dr. Hays said:
"The important thing here is no ketosis. We absolutely don't want people
to
become
ketotic, and so we said they had to have so many exchanges of fresh
fruits and
vegetables and we specified the ones they could eat."
They were able to eat all the meat and cheese they wanted, but as for
carbohydrates, they are restricted to eating unprocessed foods, mainly
fresh
fruit and vegetables, he added.
Subjects recruited into the study (84 men, 73 women) were all type 2
diabetics
and
were required to undergo a standard American Diabetes Association
modified diet
for
one full year before entry into the trial. Over the course of one year,
the
subjects achieved a mean decline in total cholesterol of between 231 and
190
mg/dl. Triglycerides declined from 229 to 182 mg/dl.
Low-density lipoproteins (LDL cholesterol) fell from 133 to 105 mg/dl,
while
HDL
increased from 44 to 47 mg/dl.
HbA1c, which at the start of the study averaged 3.34 percent above
normal,
declined to the point that at one year, the mean was just 0.96 percent
above
normal.
The average weight loss among subjects in the study was in the order of
40
pounds, Dr. Hays said.
By the end of the one-year study, he added, 90 percent of the patients
had
achieved ADA (American Diabetes Association) targets for HbA1c, HDL,
LDL and triglycerides.
Even among juvenile diabetics, he said, they might not be overweight and
they
might have more or less normal lipid levels, but when they are on this
kind of
diet
it is possible to treat them with lower doses of insulin and make their
lives a
little
safer, he said.
As for the response from cardiologists who see a high-fat diet as
anathema to
what they have been instructing their patients for years now, Dr. Hays
said he
has
three cardiologist patients who are now on the diet.
"If you have a diet that results in weight loss, lower cholesterol, and a
better lipid profile, eventually, everybody will be eating that way.
It's going
to come
whether we like it or not."
The New England Journal of Medicine -- November 20, 1997 -- Vol. 337,
No. 21
Dietary Fat Intake and the Risk of Coronary Heart Disease in Women
Frank B. Hu, Meir J. Stampfer, JoAnn E. Manson, Eric Rimm, Graham A.
Colditz, Bernard A. Rosner, Charles H. Hennekens, Walter C. Willett
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Abstract
Background. The relation between dietary intake of specific types of
fat, particularly trans unsaturated fat, and the risk of coronary
disease remains unclear. We
therefore studied this relation in women enrolled in the Nurses' Health
Study.
Methods. We prospectively studied 80,082 women who were 34 to 59 years
of age and had no known coronary disease, stroke, cancer,
hypercholesterolemia, or
diabetes in 1980. Information on diet was obtained at base line and
updated during follow-up by means of validated questionnaires. During 14
years of follow-up, we
documented 939 cases of nonfatal myocardial infarction or death from
coronary heart disease. Multivariate analyses included age, smoking
status, total energy intake,
dietary cholesterol intake, percentages of energy obtained from protein
and specific types of fat, and other risk factors.
Results. Each increase of 5 percent of energy intake from saturated fat,
as compared with equivalent energy intake from carbohydrates, was
associated with a 17
percent increase in the risk of coronary disease (relative risk, 1.17;
95 percent confidence interval, 0.97 to 1.41; P = 0.10). As compared
with equivalent energy from
carbohydrates, the relative risk for a 2 percent increment in energy
intake from trans unsaturated fat was 1.93 (95 percent confidence
interval, 1.43 to 2.61;
P<0.001); that for a 5 percent increment in energy from monounsaturated
fat was 0.81 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.00; P = 0.05);
and that for a 5
percent increment in energy from polyunsaturated fat was 0.62 (95
percent confidence interval, 0.46 to 0.85; P = 0.003). Total fat intake
was not significantly
related to the risk of coronary disease (for a 5 percent increase in
energy from fat, the relative risk was 1.02; 95 percent confidence
interval, 0.97 to 1.07; P = 0.55).
We estimated that the replacement of 5 percent of energy from saturated
fat with energy from unsaturated fats would reduce risk by 42 percent
(95 percent confidence
interval, 23 to 56; P<0.001) and that the replacement of 2 percent of
energy from trans fat with energy from unhydrogenated, unsaturated fats
would reduce risk by
53 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 34 to 67; P<0.001).
Conclusions. Our findings suggest that replacing saturated and trans
unsaturated fats with unhydrogenated monounsaturated and polyunsaturated
fats is more effective
in preventing coronary heart disease in women than reducing overall fat
intake. (N Engl J Med 1997;337:1491-9.)
Source Information
>From the Departments of Nutrition (F.B.H., M.J.S., E.R., W.C.W.),
Epidemiology (M.J.S., J.E.M., E.R., B.A.R., W.C.W.), and Biostatistics
(B.A.R.),
Harvard School of Public Health; and the Channing Laboratory (M.J.S.,
J.E.M., E.R., G.A.C., B.A.R., C.H.H., W.C.W.) and the Division of
Preventive
Medicine (J.E.M., C.H.H.), Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's
Hospital and Harvard Medical School -- all in Boston. Address reprint
requests to Dr.
Hu at the Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, 665
Huntington Ave., Boston, MA 02115.
Ann Intern Med 1998 Apr 1;128(7):524-33
Metabolic risk factors worsen continuously across the spectrum of
nondiabetic glucose tolerance. The Framingham Offspring Study.
Meigs JB, Nathan DM, Wilson PW, Cupples LA, Singer DE
Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston
University School of Public Health, 02114, USA.
jme...@sol.mgh.harvard.edu
BACKGROUND: Categorical definitions for glucose intolerance imply that
risk thresholds exist, but metabolic risk for type 2 diabetes mellitus
or cardiovascular
disease may increase continuously as glucose intolerance increases.
OBJECTIVE: To examine the distributions of the following metabolic risk
factors across the
spectrum of glucose tolerance: overall and central obesity,
hypertension, low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and
increased triglyceride and insulin
levels. DESIGN: Cross-sectional analysis. SETTING: The community-based
Framingham Offspring Study. PARTICIPANTS: 2583 adults without previously
diagnosed diabetes. MEASUREMENTS: Clinical data; fasting glucose,
insulin, and lipid levels; and glucose and insulin levels taken 2 hours
after oral challenge
were collected from 1991 to 1993. Glucose tolerance was determined by
1980 World Health Organization criteria. Patients with normal glucose
tolerance were
categorized into quintiles of fasting glucose. The distributions of each
metabolic risk factor and the metabolic sum of the six risk factors were
assessed across seven
categories from the lowest quintile of normal fasting glucose level
through impaired glucose tolerance and previously undiagnosed diabetes.
RESULTS: The mean
age of patients was 54 years (range, 26 to 82 years); 52.7% of patients
were women. Glucose tolerance testing found that 12.7% of patients had
impaired glucose
tolerance and 4.8% had previously undiagnosed diabetes.
Multivariable-adjusted mean measures of risk factors and odds ratios for
obesity, elevated waist-to-hip ratio,
hypertension, low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol,
elevated triglyceride levels, and hyperinsulinemia showed continuous
increases across the spectrum
of nondiabetic glucose tolerance. Although a threshold effect near the
upper range of nondiabetic glucose tolerance could not be ruled out for
triglyceride levels in
men and for insulin levels 2 hours after oral challenge in men and
women, no other metabolic risk factors showed clear evidence of
thresholds for increased risk.
CONCLUSIONS: Metabolic risk factors for type 2 diabetes mellitus and for
cardiovascular disease worsen continuously across the spectrum of
glucose tolerance
categories, beginning in the lowest quintiles of normal fasting glucose
level.
PMID: 9518396, UI: 98175274
Werner Schneider
"Ted Rosenberg" wrote:
> To confuse things further, all of this fluctuates, so if two absolutly
> identical people went on two absolutly identical diets, next week one
> might be up, and one down.
It´s easy to explain. The first one is more active and produces more
cortisol. Hepatic cholesterol production is increased due to higher
cortisol. If you have a TC of 100 you are always very tired with a low
cortisol value and consequentliy low cholesterol.
cholesterol -> cortisol -> cholesterol.....
Werner
Alan
<vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>In article <du4jpvsuc474mlvnj...@4ax.com>,
> Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
>
>> I would like to be able to collect medical references (positive,
>> negative or neutral) to allow me to respond with some authority when
>> the question is asked again.
>
>Here's a mess of stuff on and around the topic which I was given as I
>was making my decision on how to treat my diabetes last winter. Sorry I
>haven't culled it for you, but you can browse it.
>
>Priscilla
<Lots of references snipped>
Thanks Priscilla, that sort of response is exactly what I was looking
for. Now off to do some reading :-)
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Mu_n Of Mars
wrote:
><Lots of references snipped>
>
>Thanks Priscilla, that sort of response is exactly what I was looking
>for. Now off to do some reading :-)
If you have no research level qualifications, your reading is like a
third grader interpreting Einstein.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031024.html
Priscilla Ballou
suf...@aol.comnospam (Susan ) wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> >Here's a mess of stuff on and around the topic which I was given as I
> >was making my decision on how to treat my diabetes last winter. Sorry I
> >haven't culled it for you, but you can browse it.
> >
> >Priscilla
>
> YAY, Priscilla!
>
> I'd lost the whole collection.
>
> THANKS!
Yes, folks, that all came originally from Susan, who is in large measure
responsible for my finding a good treatment for my diabetes. :-)
Priscilla
Pete
<lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:31:09 GMT, Priscilla Ballou
><vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>In article <r81hpvovioeijk90o...@4ax.com>,
>> Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:06:08 -0400, "Jenny" <jenny_t...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >Alan,
>>> >Hundreds of people who have posted on the low carb newsgroup have discovered
>>> >that as soon as they cut their carbs to very low levels (under 80 gms a day,
>>> >say) their LDL cholesterol drops,
Mine went up
>their triglycerides drop,
Mine did
>and their HDL goes ups
mine remained the same.
[snip]
My last test results were:
HDL 1.2 [1.2 previous]
LDL 1.8 [2.1 previous]
Tri: 0.9 [1.3 previous]
Cholo 3.4 [down from 3.9 on the previous]
My diet [food intake] is ultra low carb I think. I say I
think because I only ingest per day. 2 x crisp breads and 2
x wholemeal bread slices and 1/2 teacup of oats. Nothing
else. I eat 4 eggs aweek [fried] and four rashers of bacon.
3 Yoghurts......................etc.
This fat thing is confusing. I know for a fact that I have
no cholesterol problem whatsoever. Not furring of the
arteries nor likely to suffer as a result before I die of
some other thing. Prior to Dx I was overweight but it was
consistent. I also ate anything and everything irespective
of what it was or how it was cooked. So, what is it that
gives me the benefit of not having the problem that seems to
bother others?
FWIW my current diet is balanced. I do not follow a specific
diet plan [such at Atkins or somesuch] I watch my meter and
know what does what to me, when and how. But I do listen to
my body when it tells me what it wants and what it does not
and I do not need the meter for that. Well it works for me.
Pete
Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
+ Asprin 210lbs at Dx to 170 lbs 02/08/03 target 161.
Annette
"Mu_n Of Mars" <Notaw...@email.com> wrote in message
news:f2pjpvoopf9vncrbe...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:17:08 +1000, Alan <lora...@ozconnect.net>
> wrote:
>
> ><Lots of references snipped>
> >
> >Thanks Priscilla, that sort of response is exactly what I was
looking
> >for. Now off to do some reading :-)
>
> If you have no research level qualifications, your reading is like
a
> third grader interpreting Einstein.
>
If YOU have no love or respect for your fellow human beings, then
your prideful qualifications are as useless as light for a blind
man.
Annette
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Mu_n Of Mars
wrote:
>> If you have no research level qualifications, your reading is like
>a
>> third grader interpreting Einstein.
>>
>
>If YOU have no love or respect for your fellow human beings, then
>your prideful qualifications are as useless as light for a blind
>man.
Exactly what is untruthful, hence unloving, about my statement?
Alan
wrote:
>My last test results were:
>
>HDL 1.2 [1.2 previous]
>LDL 1.8 [2.1 previous]
>Tri: 0.9 [1.3 previous]
>Cholo 3.4 [down from 3.9 on the previous]
>
>My diet [food intake] is ultra low carb I think. I say I
>think because I only ingest per day. 2 x crisp breads and 2
>x wholemeal bread slices and 1/2 teacup of oats. Nothing
>else. I eat 4 eggs aweek [fried] and four rashers of bacon.
>3 Yoghurts......................etc.
>
>This fat thing is confusing. I know for a fact that I have
>no cholesterol problem whatsoever. Not furring of the
>arteries nor likely to suffer as a result before I die of
>some other thing. Prior to Dx I was overweight but it was
>consistent. I also ate anything and everything irespective
>of what it was or how it was cooked. So, what is it that
>gives me the benefit of not having the problem that seems to
>bother others?
>
>FWIW my current diet is balanced. I do not follow a specific
>diet plan [such at Atkins or somesuch] I watch my meter and
>know what does what to me, when and how. But I do listen to
>my body when it tells me what it wants and what it does not
>and I do not need the meter for that. Well it works for me.
>
>Pete
>
>
Hi Pete
Those figures look good to me. See my diet comment on the other
thread.
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
@hotmail.com mickomac
> Mark to tell you the truth that many eggs would scare the chickens out
> of me.
>
> Loretta
>
I also eat two eggs a day, seven days a week and have done for years. I also
eat butter, cream and red meat. I don't eat processed carbs - bread, sugar,
rice and pasta etc. I don't touch margarine. My lipids are all in normal
parameters.
Just as an aside there is a group of scientists (The International Network
of Cholesterol Skeptics) who suggest that cholesterol is irrelevant to heart
disease.
See www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm and www.thincs.org/ .
My belief - it is the processed foods that get you.
Cheers,
Michael
Pete
Hi, the point i was trying to make and probably quite badly
too, was that I do not have a cholesterol problem and never
have had. Yet in the past I have eaten without any regard
for cholesterol problems etc: So what is it that allows me
to escape this problem? I read something in another thread
[just skimmed through it] and it seems my thingumies might
be the bige ones <lol>
Pete
Jobs and tasks from the daily list
Wes Groleau
> Just as an aside there is a group of scientists (The International Network
> of Cholesterol Skeptics) who suggest that cholesterol is irrelevant to heart
> disease.
Not all of them say it's irrelevant. Some of them admit
there's a correlation, but quickly point out that
correlation does not equal cause.
http://www.redflagsweekly.com/extra/2003_sept12P.html
--
Wes Groleau
"Lewis's case for the existence of God is fallacious."
"You mean like circular reasoning?"
"He believes in God. Therefore, he's fallacious."
Alan
wrote:
>Hi, the point i was trying to make and probably quite badly
>too, was that I do not have a cholesterol problem and never
>have had. Yet in the past I have eaten without any regard
>for cholesterol problems etc: So what is it that allows me
>to escape this problem? I read something in another thread
>[just skimmed through it] and it seems my thingumies might
>be the bige ones <lol>
>
>Pete
Hi Pete
Sorry this got a little long.
From what you've said elsewhere you probably ate OK, at least for your
lipids, prior to diagnosis. The difference is that post diagnosis the
whole diet thing gets turned on it's head.
It isn't just the carbs vs protein vs fat ratio that so many people
here, particularly the evangelistic lo-carbers, get passionate about.
We have to go deeper into which carbs, which fats, what protein;
additionally, we have to be very careful about how much and when we
eat, whatever we are eating.
What time of day, how long between meals and snacks, how small are the
meals and how big are the snacks, do we have "dawn effect" limiting
acceptable breakfast carbs, what time of day can I eat extra carbs,
should I snack before bed?
That is why I asked the question on cholesterol. As you change your
diet to treat T2, reducing this, increasing that, do we cause other
problems in areas like lipids. The answer I'm getting so far is
generally no. Among other reasons, that is partly because many new T2s
will be eating less of everything, not just carbs. But it is all an
interdependant whole, and just to complicate it further, despite the
things we have in common, no two diabetics react exactly the same.
Then, many of us, like you and me, have other unrelated medical
problems to complicate it even more. Yours was related only in that
the treatment appears to have triggered the T2; mine is totally
seperate. That means eventually other meds which may or may not be
compatible, thus I fully share your reluctance in that area. But when
the time comes, if I have to pop pills or inject, I will. The
difference is, I'll know a hell of a lot more about it than the
average "T2 in the street".
Pete this is an answer to you that, as I wrote it, clarified to me
some of the things I've learnt here since diagnosis. Don't be
surprised if you see bits of it clipped and said to the occasional
newby :-) Hope it helped clarify it for you too.
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Pete
<lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:06:32 +0000, Pete <asp...@btinternet.com>
>wrote:
>>Hi, the point i was trying to make and probably quite badly
>>too, was that I do not have a cholesterol problem and never
>>have had. Yet in the past I have eaten without any regard
>>for cholesterol problems etc: So what is it that allows me
>>to escape this problem? I read something in another thread
>>[just skimmed through it] and it seems my thingumies might
>>be the bige ones <lol>
>>Pete
>Hi Pete
>Sorry this got a little long.
no problem
>From what you've said elsewhere you probably ate OK, at least for your
>lipids, prior to diagnosis. The difference is that post diagnosis the
>whole diet thing gets turned on it's head.
Yes, I know for a fact that I am not a cholesterol candidate
and as you say that was because of a pre diabetes thing.
Now?? well as you say, everything has altered so perhaps
that will as well. For the moment,thankfully it is not a
worry.
>It isn't just the carbs vs protein vs fat ratio that so many people
>here, particularly the evangelistic lo-carbers, get passionate about.
>We have to go deeper into which carbs, which fats, what protein;
>additionally, we have to be very careful about how much and when we
>eat, whatever we are eating.
I spent most of this afternoon inputting my BG's and stuff
into the Db. [I prefer the old manual way, it helps me to
learn from it and spot various things] cause for the last
month I have not bothered. Well I have spotted a patern and
it relates directly to the 'conversation we were having'
earlier. I think the record shows that you might be right
about bfast/time between meals etc. I will let you know what
I come up with later when I have had a chance to ponder some
more.
>What time of day, how long between meals and snacks, how small are the
>meals and how big are the snacks, do we have "dawn effect" limiting
>acceptable breakfast carbs, what time of day can I eat extra carbs,
>should I snack before bed?
>That is why I asked the question on cholesterol. As you change your
>diet to treat T2, reducing this, increasing that, do we cause other
>problems in areas like lipids. The answer I'm getting so far is
>generally no.
Well even given my disposition as mentioned before, I have
noticed a change in my lipid profile although only over two
A1c's. But there is a definate change. In my case better
than before but the next one will be more conclusive. I
think it will be a crap one cause i have been naughty a few
times and am paying the penalty for that right now.
>Among other reasons, that is partly because many new T2s
>will be eating less of everything, not just carbs. But it is all an
>interdependant whole, and just to complicate it further, despite the
>things we have in common, no two diabetics react exactly the same.
>Then, many of us, like you and me, have other unrelated medical
>problems to complicate it even more. Yours was related only in that
>the treatment appears to have triggered the T2; mine is totally
>seperate. That means eventually other meds which may or may not be
>compatible, thus I fully share your reluctance in that area. But when
>the time comes, if I have to pop pills or inject, I will. The
>difference is, I'll know a hell of a lot more about it than the
>average "T2 in the street".
I agree, when the time comes I will too but what I will not
do is to look upon medication/insulin as an easy option or a
method to enable me to follow a lifestyle that i cannot now.
That is the trap.
>Pete this is an answer to you that, as I wrote it, clarified to me
>some of the things I've learnt here since diagnosis. Don't be
>surprised if you see bits of it clipped and said to the occasional
>newby :-) Hope it helped clarify it for you too.
>Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
>dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Discussion always clarify's things. When at college [at age
45!!!] I used to rewrite everything into a form I could
remember even though there were 'handouts' given. Writing it
down in another form ensures understanding.
Pete
.
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:du4jpvsuc474mlvnj...@4ax.com...
>
> One, but not the only, reason I started this thread is that there is
> general ignorance on the subject.
>
that is why with things like this its a good idea to talk to a dietitian
about how much of this that and the other thing would be good
for different individuals to include into their diets.
there are just too many variables involved to determine who should eat what.
don't believe me? ask a dietitian.
.
Julie Bove
"." <.@.com> wrote in message news:10672241...@nntp.acecape.com...
> that is why with things like this its a good idea to talk to a dietitian
> about how much of this that and the other thing would be good
> for different individuals to include into their diets.
> there are just too many variables involved to determine who should eat
what.
> don't believe me? ask a dietitian.
Uh oh. Are you now on your period? Uh... Fishy Shadow?
--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Annette
"." <.@.com> wrote in message
news:10672241...@nntp.acecape.com...
>
Hey there DOT,
Or should it be PERIOD? Hard to know. Perhaps FULL STOP.
Anyway, many dieticians are still stressing the low fat, high carb
diet. It sure didn't help me, or many others here. We had to find
our own solutions, and try to figure it all out for ourselves. A
dietician is a help when one is first dx'd, or totally ignorant
about diet, or especially if one has other special considerations to
allow for, like kidney problems, for example, but many find they
were of no help AT ALL in getting their bg levels down to a
healthier level, or even for losing weight successfully.
Some people DO find a dietician helpful, but in 28 years I haven't
found one yet. On the contrary, their advice only seemed to make
things worse, and when their advice didn't work, I was accused of
being non-compliant and in effect of either being a liar or a
"cheater". It just isn't possible to their programmed thinking
that all their hard earned aquired knowledge just might be wrong.
It's hard to find a humble dietician, with an open mind, who can
admit that what they are doing isn't working as it should. Easier
to just blame the patient.
Yes, I'm passionate about this. And yes, YMMV.
Now, who are you please, and do you have diabetes?
Enquiring minds need to know.
Annette
T2 for over 28 years, well controlled for 2 yrs (since joining asd).
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Mano Govender
Omega 3 content and reduces cholestrol.
Mano Govender
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:du4jpvsuc474mlvnj...@4ax.com...
Alan
Hi dot.
Not long after I was diagnosed with this beast I attended a
dietitian's training day at a Diabetes Australia workshop. He didn't
really cover cholesterol that day, but gave a very simplistic
beginner's advice on insulin, fats and diet. Fair enough, I was a
beginner after all.
I signed up for a Diabetes Australia course, once a week over a month.
I learnt a lot, but the information I've learnt since, here and in
other reading, directly contradicts his advice in the area of diet for
diabetics. Among his other little gems, ice cream is a free food (free
meaning OK any time), all adult males should have 9 to 12 carbs (a
"carb" is a 15g serve) every day, females should have 6 to 9 carbs per
day, non insulin dependant T2s never ever have hypos, testing other
than fasting and pre-meal is a waste of time; I could go on. In
checking later with Diabetes Australia he did not contradict any
official guidelines. I think he did mention saturated fats causing
more cholesterol problems than eggs, but my memory fails meon that, so
I am not certain.
I presume that your faith in dietitians is based on much better
experience in a different land. From what I read here, there is just
as much confusion overseas as there is here.
I have seen very little different in dietitian's advice in the
official journals of DA; similarly in the diabetes articles in the US
AARP magazine.
I have a great deal more faith in the combined knowledge, properly
distilled, of this group and web-sites like Rick and Ratty.
I always preface anything I say here with "check it with your medics."
However, the experiences with medics we are hearing lately make "get a
second opinion from a different medic" probably better advice.
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Alan
<jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>Uh oh. Are you now on your period? Uh... Fishy Shadow?
Funny you should say that :-) My suspicion exactly, but I replied for
the lurkers.
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Alan
wrote:
>Yes, I'm passionate about this. And yes, YMMV.
Hi Annette; I know you've had this a wee bit longer than me; surely
you didn't attend my course at Tweed Heads as a refresher:-)
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Alan
<mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>We have eggs produced here from hens that are fed a diet that increases the
>Omega 3 content and reduces cholestrol.
>
>
>Mano Govender
Where is "here?
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Mano Govender
Mano Govender
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:98hppvkibpdd7rvhu...@4ax.com...
.
> I have a great deal more faith in the combined knowledge, properly
> distilled, of this group and web-sites like Rick and Ratty.
thats great for you but if my doctor tells me one thing
and this group
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Gallery.htm
tells me something different - il follow my doctor
Alan
>thats great for you but if my doctor tells me one thing
>
>and this group
>
>http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Gallery.htm
>
>tells me something different - il follow my doctor
>
>
I have no problem with that at all. I sincerely hope, and I am sure
from your comments, that you have an excellent doctor and endo.
You may have missed it, but I was replying to your comments about
dietitians, not doctors, although I accept that I expressed some
reservations about the medical profession. You may also have an
excellent dietitian. That puts you way ahead of me; I can only speak
for myself.
Was there something I missed about the Gallery reference - my fangs
and the horns growing from my forehead, and my evil smile perhaps?
Or did I miss your picture?
I do agree, we are an evil-looking bunch of misfits (males only of
course) and the women do have that Mata-Hari
"lead-you-into-temptation" look.
Alan
<mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>I forget to describe 'here' as South Africa.
>
>
>Mano Govender
Aha - now I remember being chided for thinking .za was zambia or
Zaire.
Hi to Suth Efrika from Orstraylya :-)
I don't think our hens are quite as well educated, they still produce
eggs with cholesterol. But, I still eat them for breakfast. The eggs,
that is, although I occasionally eat their mums as well.
Mano Govender
Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with keen interest.
Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies and All Blacks.
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:tglppv4ld54r8epfd...@4ax.com...
Alan
<mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>That chiding was not me.
>
>Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with keen interest.
>Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies and All Blacks.
>
I thought I'd take this one OT on a.s.d only.
If a thread can develop on a thing called the "World Series" with
only one (or maybe two if the canucks are allowed in) countries
involved, then possibly a little diversion on a real World Cup for the
game made in heaven may be appropriate.
Of course, despite twenty countries being involved, it may not last
long because the north americans aren't likely to make the finals
(aren't likely is a euphemism for haven't got a hope). I must admit
the US was unlucky to be beaten by Fiji by only one point.
(Now certain readers are rushing off to find out what the heck I'm
talking about, where on earth is Fiji, and how could they beat the
most powerful etc. I doubt that most papers over there have even
mentioned the event.) For those interested in more, try
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com. You will find that the US beat Japan,
but lost to Scotland and Fiji. Their chances against France are
remote. Canada lost bravely to Italy, were beaten by Wales and
destroyed by the Kiwis. They may have some chance against Tonga.
I'm not a great Rugby fan, but I must admit I develop jingoism when
Aussies and sport are mentioned in the same sentence :-)
You Springboks (I can hear them rustling the pages of the
encyclopaedia, or madly googling) were darn lucky the poms
second-string team finally started playing against Samoa late last
night. Great game, but until that brilliant kick to position, the
result was in doubt. I'm only slightly biassed of course, but I expect
us to be playing the Kiwis in the final.
Vicki Beausoleil
>
> Was there something I missed about the Gallery reference - my fangs
> and the horns growing from my forehead, and my evil smile perhaps?
> Or did I miss your picture?
>
> I do agree, we are an evil-looking bunch of misfits (males only of
> course) and the women do have that Mata-Hari
> "lead-you-into-temptation" look.
>
> Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
> dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
> --
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
C'mon Alan - don't you recognize the troll copulator/cheesebuggerer/rice
burner? He can't even munge his address properly...
Vicki
Vicki Beausoleil
Omega-3 eggs were developed at the University of Guelph (Ontario,
Canada). Hens fed a diet of flax seed produce eggs that are naturally
high in Omega-3s and vitamin E. Two omega-3 eggs provide 100% of the
daily (woefully low) RDA of vitamin E. One large egg has 0.69g of
Omega-6 polyunsaturates and 0.38g of Omega-3 polyunsaturates.
It's the only type of eggs I buy now. The only thing I don't like about
them is they're very difficult to peel when hard boiled, even if they
aren't fresh when you boil them.
Vicki
Alan
<VBeau...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>C'mon Alan - don't you recognize the troll copulator/cheesebuggerer/rice
>burner? He can't even munge his address properly...
>
>Vicki
Yeah, but see response to Julie.
BJ in Texas
t2_lurking
Alan you seem to have forgotten that here in the "Right-Side-Up" world we
have a marvelous thing called cable or satellite TV. Not only have I and my
friends watched Rugby, but also many a Springbok being chowed for a little
lo-carb snackerino by hungry carnivores (Atkins no doubt)
8))
--
--
t2_lurking
geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom
Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)
============================
Well, i dreamed i saw the silver
Space ships flying
In the yellow haze of the sun
-- Neil Young --
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:l3vppv0bog8bbs0rm...@4ax.com...
Quentin Grady
>Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with keen interest.
>Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies and All Blacks.
Of course. <yeah right>
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."
willbill
> Omega-3 eggs were developed at the University of Guelph (Ontario,
> Canada). Hens fed a diet of flax seed produce eggs that are naturally
> high in Omega-3s and vitamin E. Two omega-3 eggs provide 100% of the
> daily (woefully low) RDA of vitamin E. One large egg has 0.69g of
> Omega-6 polyunsaturates and 0.38g of Omega-3 polyunsaturates.
>
> It's the only type of eggs I buy now. The only thing I don't like about
> them is they're very difficult to peel when hard boiled, even if they
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> aren't fresh when you boil them.
some things that might help:
1. put the eggs in the fridge for at least a week
before you hard boil them (even longer might
be even better in helping to make peeling easier)
2. boil them longer
(when the whites turn light brown is likely
way too long, but even then they're still edible
and really easy to peel. it also wouldn't
surprise me if it's a delicacy somewhere. :))
3. cool them off submerged in cold water
bill
Alan
<t2_lu...@abbottandabbott.com> wrote:
>Ahem,
>Alan you seem to have forgotten that here in the "Right-Side-Up" world we
>have a marvelous thing called cable or satellite TV. Not only have I and my
>friends watched Rugby, but also many a Springbok being chowed for a little
>lo-carb snackerino by hungry carnivores (Atkins no doubt)
>8))
>--
Of course I forgot that!
I think Ireland's close win over the Pumas was a great match.
I presume you also enjoyed the game yesterday. Are you still
celebrating? Skill levels weren't quite as high as some others but it
was an exciting match.
Which game? The one won by the US over Japan, in which they finally
broke through to end the longest losing streak in World Cup history.
t2_lurking
Right
Ho-ho-ho.
I was watching that pre-eminent golfer from Fiji, V.J.
Now lets see.... since I'm a Self-Liberated colonial (i.e. American) that
must mean that I think Fiji is...is....
Next to..... Quebec!
--
--
t2_lurking
geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom
Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)
============================
Well, i dreamed i saw the silver
Space ships flying
In the yellow haze of the sun
-- Neil Young --
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:2nvqpv07psvs3pri3...@4ax.com...
Alan
<t2_lu...@abbottandabbott.com> wrote:
>LOL
>Right
>Ho-ho-ho.
>I was watching that pre-eminent golfer from Fiji, V.J.
>Now lets see.... since I'm a Self-Liberated colonial (i.e. American) that
>must mean that I think Fiji is...is....
>Next to..... Quebec!
Of course, I was having a bit of a dig.
Told you I get Jingoistic over sport :-)
However, it was a good match to watch. The sad thing is that it was
watched on TV around the world by lots of Aussies, Japanese, brits,
Kiwis, South Africans, Romanians etc. And hardly any (dare I say it)
Yanks.
I suppose it's fair enough. TV networks over there have difficulty
with a game that only has two halves and doesn't stop for anything but
injuries or kicks at goal. And high school coaches and insurers have
difficulty with injuries in a game where protective padding is fairly
basic by grid-iron standards. Have a look at it on your cable -
wysiwyg.
Of course, I'm speaking as a spectator. It didn't take me a long time
in the schoolboy rugby team to convince me that rowing "fours" and
"sculls" was a much better sport for my body:-)
t2_lurking
soccer (football) is hardly given any attention at all. I watched as much
World Cup as I could and I just assumed that people in Europe were as
nutters about it as Men's.
Too bad.
I think we need to have more attention paid to that Irish thing with the
heavy sticks and hard balls.
Whack! ....have a brewski
Take that! .....have an other one!
Sponsored by The International Assoc. of Reconstructive Dentists!
--
--
t2_lurking
geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom
Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)
============================
Well, i dreamed i saw the silver
Space ships flying
In the yellow haze of the sun
-- Neil Young --
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:k71rpvgmb9ghqqstr...@4ax.com...
Pete
Soak in horses urine for at least one hundred years
or is it a thousand??
Chinese delicacy - eugh but nice with mustard and chilli
>
>3. cool them off submerged in cold water
>
>bill
Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
+ Asprin 210lbs at Dx to 170 lbs 02/08/03 target 161.
To mail: asp...@freeuk.com
Alan
<t2_lu...@abbottandabbott.com> wrote:
>Speaking of TV watching, I was surprised to learn that in Europe Women's
>soccer (football) is hardly given any attention at all. I watched as much
>World Cup as I could and I just assumed that people in Europe were as
>nutters about it as Men's.
>Too bad.
>I think we need to have more attention paid to that Irish thing with the
>heavy sticks and hard balls.
>Whack! ....have a brewski
>Take that! .....have an other one!
>Sponsored by The International Assoc. of Reconstructive Dentists!
>--
We inherited one of the standard British "traditions" after big
matches - soccer, rugby etc - which was that the players swapped
jerseys (read shirts) after a match; in effect they kept the
opposition jersey as a memento.
So, for about ten minutes after a game there were guys taking their
shirts off and wandering around bare-skinned looking for an opponent
to swap with.
Womens's soccer was anticipated with great excitement when it first
started; for some reason it didn't maintain the same level of interest
when it was discovered that they weren't going to follow all the old
traditions.
I think that Irish game you're talking about is called hurling, or it
could be marriage without divorce.
K'neH'a'Iw
> Womens's soccer was anticipated with great excitement when it first
> started; for some reason it didn't maintain the same level of interest
> when it was discovered that they weren't going to follow all the old
> traditions.
I seem to recall several of the US women's players ripping of their
jerseys when they won the last one.
--
K'neH'a'Iw
Uncloaking, Shields up.
JHEM
> This post not CC'd by email
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:47:04 +0200, "Mano Govender"
> <mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>
>> Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with keen
>> interest. Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies
>> and All Blacks.
>
> Of course. <yeah right>
Gotta' add my two cents to Quentin here. My All Black cousins will EAT the
Boks!
Regards,
James the Elder
Julie Bove
"willbill" <posto...@sgmbi812isinvalidforemail.net> wrote in message
news:nmsqpv03uj65h1j8f...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> 2. boil them longer
>
> (when the whites turn light brown is likely
> way too long, but even then they're still edible
> and really easy to peel. it also wouldn't
> surprise me if it's a delicacy somewhere. :))
My Grandpa used to tell me stories of getting them in some pub (in Ireland I
think) where they were boiled for so long he said they would bounce back up
at you if you accidentally dropped them. He said the whites were brown and
the yolks were green. And for years, I would boil my eggs for at least an
hour to make sure they were done. Then somebody bought me a timer that is
shaped like an egg. You drop it in with the eggs when you cook them and it
tells you automatically when the eggs are done. You can choose from soft or
hard boiled. I found that they cooked in a LOT less time than that and
actually tasted better. Alas, my timer disappeared and never resurfaced
after the move. My daughter was a toddler then and she often squirrled my
things away. I found many of them when we packed to move, but this wasn't
one of them. So now I boil my eggs for 20 minutes. I could probably get by
with less time, but I don't want to take the chance of runny yolks. My
daughter is eating a devilled egg as I type and she told me it is the best
egg she ever ate!
>
> 3. cool them off submerged in cold water
This works very well. What I did with my last batch (and they were fresh)
was to soak them in several changes of cold water, then drain off the water,
and bounce the pan around to get them well cracked all over. I then let
them stay again in the cold water, changing it a few times as it warmed up.
The shells slipped right off. Of course, this wouldn't do if you wanted hot
eggs. But I wanted cold ones, so it didn't matter.
Another thing that sometimes works is to slip a spoon under the shell,
working it around the egg, with the curved part cupping in towards the egg,
sort of following the contours of the egg. Just work the tip of the spoon
around, loosening the shell gently.
--
Type 2
http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
>
> bill
willbill
> "willbill" wrote:
> > 2. boil them longer
> >
> > (when the whites turn light brown is likely
> > way too long, but even then they're still edible
> > and really easy to peel. it also wouldn't
> > surprise me if it's a delicacy somewhere. :))
> My Grandpa used to tell me stories of getting them in some pub (in Ireland I
> think) where they were boiled for so long he said they would bounce back up
> at you if you accidentally dropped them. He said the whites were brown and
> the yolks were green.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!
good grief!
every time i've gotten the whites to go
to brown it's been a timing mistake.
(i'm like the absent minded professor. :))
longest was about 3 hours but even that
wan't long enough for the yolks to change color
what surprised me was that the eggs were
still pretty edible at 3 hours but i did almost
boil off all the water. :))
fwiw, about 20 years ago i simply couldn't
hard boil an egg to save my life. :(((((
it got to the point where i took the
damn unpeelable hard boiled eggs out
in front of the house and threw every
single one of them as far down the road
as i could toss them <grin>
i felt a whole lot better after that
and stayed away from hard boiling
any more eggs for 15 years
bill
Sleepyman
wrote:
I guess if the sheep are busy, watching men trade jerseys is good
enough for some....
Sleepy
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Save the whales. Collect the whole set.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Alan
Must admit that hadn't occurred to me..different strokes?
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Mano Govender
Lions were quite hungry at the time. Fortunately Boks run in the wild and
and have naturally low levels of cholestrol.
"JHEM" <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com> wrote in message
news:FLgnb.15458$AU....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Alan
I'm sure you are both lovely people, but if either of you ever invite
me 'round for breakfast, remind me I have something else really
important to do at that time. Actually, that also applies to lunch,
dinner, supper...
Mano Govender
Lions were quite hungry at the time. Fortunately Boks run in the wild and
and have naturally low levels of cholestrol.
"Alan" <lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:2nvqpv07psvs3pri3...@4ax.com...
JHEM
>
> I guess if the sheep are busy, watching men trade jerseys is good
> enough for some....
But have you noticed they always seem to pick the really _ugly_ sheep?
Sleepyman
Any port in a storm I suppose. An Aussie once told me you have to
treat the nicer looking sheep better, and given the return, it is
often not worth the trouble. Different strokes.....
Mars at the Mu_n's Edge
wrote:
>Womens's soccer was anticipated with great excitement when it first
>started; for some reason it didn't maintain the same level of interest
>when it was discovered that they weren't going to follow all the old
>traditions.
Clueless.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Annette
"Quentin Grady" <que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:sgoqpv0on6941modb...@4ax.com...
> This post not CC'd by email
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:47:04 +0200, "Mano Govender"
> <mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>
> >Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with
keen interest.
> >Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies and
All Blacks.
>
> Of course. <yeah right>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Grady
I wondered how long it would take you to join in. :-)
Annette
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 28/10/03
Annette
"Vicki Beausoleil" <VBeau...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3F9D1593...@netscape.net...
I often get fresh eggs. I have taken to buying them at the local
small farmers market, and they really are "free range", no pellets
or supplements. The yolks are such an intense orange they are
almost red in colour. About half the price of store bought as well.
I hate that "chewed over" look they get when I try to peal the
hardboiled ones. Looks indecent somehow. It's kind of embarrassing
if you want to serve it to visitors in a salad.
The magpies are raising chicks and attacking people who come near
the nest. So I have started boiling and chopping up any relatively
old eggs and putting it out occasionally for the desparate parents.
It makes them regard me as a "friend". If you've ever heard a baby
magpie demanding to be fed, you'll know what I mean. I'd shove it
down their little beaks myself if I could!
Annette
"willbill" <posto...@sgmbi812isinvalidforemail.net> wrote in
message news:nmsqpv03uj65h1j8f...@4ax.com...
I always plunge just boiled eggs into cold water immediately, and it
does help, but when they are really fresh, nothing works. Keeping
the boiled eggs in the refrigerator for a few days helps as well - I
think they lose a little water by evaporation then, and shrink
slightly. But overboiling does affect the taste as well as the
appearance, so I try to never do that.
Of course the greatest nutritional benefit from the egg yolks is if
they are eaten "soft", with the yolk still somewhat runny. An egg
timer is an esential! And most allergies from eggs are caused by
the white, not the yolk. If you are not sure about an egg
intollerance, try just eating the yolk only.
Annette
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:52:19 +1100, "Annette"
<acia...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes, I'm passionate about this. And yes, YMMV.
>
> Hi Annette; I know you've had this a wee bit longer than me;
surely
> you didn't attend my course at Tweed Heads as a refresher:-)
>
> Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
Alan,
I didn't, but I have not seen any improvement in the "advice" from
dieticians in the last 28 yrs. I've seen quite a few. The last time
was only about 12 months ago, on the insistance of a new doctor, so
he could tick it off as done on his list of "things to do for
diabetics" - really. I have a copy.
I had a huge argument with the dietician. Wasted both our time.
She probably weighed about 55 lbs wringing wet. Age in the mid
twenties. Her final argument, in opposition to my anecdotal
experience of a low carb diet, was meant to be a clincher - she said
that everyone needs carbs for energy, she did! Otherwise they lack
energy and can even collapse! She was speaking of fast carbs, of
course. She said that if she didn't have them in her diet, she
couldn't function.
Personally, I did feel she looked like she could do with a good
feed. ;-)
JHEM
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:34:17 GMT, "JHEM"
> <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com> wrote:
>
>> Sleepyman <e...@moms.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess if the sheep are busy, watching men trade jerseys is good
>>> enough for some....
>>
>> But have you noticed they always seem to pick the really _ugly_
>> sheep?
>
> Any port in a storm I suppose. An Aussie once told me you have to
> treat the nicer looking sheep better, and given the return, it is
> often not worth the trouble. Different strokes.....
So THAT'S why you always see them carrying hip-boots and asking where the
nearest cliff is! ;-)
Regards,
James the Elder
Alan
wrote:
Obviously, 28 years of beating the beast doesn't qualify you to advise
an "expert" with a couple of years in college and not many more in the
field. Or, occasionally, new johnny-come-latelys like me :-)
Congratulations, by the way. You probably don't realise how much the
fact that you, and others like Guy and Nan, help just by reminding us
that you can fight this thing and survive for many years.
Alan
<James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com> wrote:
I found this replying on another thread, but read past the intro to
"Real Scotsmen carry purses".
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_232.html
Thankfully, they don't wear kilts in a scrum.
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
Alan
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:05:15 +1100, "Annette" <acia...@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>The magpies are raising chicks and attacking people who come near
>the nest. So I have started boiling and chopping up any relatively
>old eggs and putting it out occasionally for the desparate parents.
>It makes them regard me as a "friend". If you've ever heard a baby
>magpie demanding to be fed, you'll know what I mean. I'd shove it
>down their little beaks myself if I could!
>
>Annette
>
My front lawn has a beetle infestation. That means I am the local
magpie supermarket/deli. Various families come "shopping" every
afternoon and we watch them have wars with the peewits and "willy
wagtails". They never attack us, but the mailman has to wear a helmet.
Wonderful warblers.
The honeyeaters spend their time in the grevilleas in the backyard.
Herman Rubin
Julie Bove <jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>"willbill" <posto...@sgmbi812isinvalidforemail.net> wrote in message
>news:nmsqpv03uj65h1j8f...@4ax.com...
<snip>
>> 2. boil them longer
No. It just makes them tough. The trick is to make a
pinhole in the big end, start them in cold water, just
bring to a boil, and if you want them cold, just let
the water cool. If you want them hot, simmer gently
for 12 minutes and plunge into cold water; this helps
loosen the shells.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Priscilla Ballou
hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote:
> In article <vpr8afd...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Julie Bove <jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >"willbill" <posto...@sgmbi812isinvalidforemail.net> wrote in message
> >news:nmsqpv03uj65h1j8f...@4ax.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> >> 2. boil them longer
>
> No. It just makes them tough. The trick is to make a
> pinhole in the big end,
How?
Priscilla
W. Baker
: In article <bnr999$4e...@odds.stat.purdue.edu>,
: hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) wrote:
: How?
: Priscilla
I put the eggs, with a bit of salt in a pot of hot tap water, bring them
to a boil, turn off the heat and let them sit in the sovered pot for 15
mins. Works for me. I guess that this is the source of that dietition's
phrase, "hard cooked" eggs.
To make holes in the raw eggs, an old fasioned hatpin works.
Wendy
Priscilla Ballou
"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
That's what I was asking about. You can just push it through the shell?
Priscilla
mike gray, CID
>>
>> To make holes in the raw eggs, an old fasioned hatpin works.
>
> That's what I was asking about. You can just push it through the shell?
Just don't push it too far. You want to pierce the shell but not the
membrane around the soft part of the egg.
Personally, I like em raw, but they're so dirty in the stores these
days. I just dunk em in boiling water for about a minute.
Annette
>
> Congratulations, by the way. You probably don't realise how much
the
> fact that you, and others like Guy and Nan, help just by reminding
us
> that you can fight this thing and survive for many years.
>
>
> Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
> dx May 2002, diet and exercise.
> --
> Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
I nearly didn't make it, Alan. I was in a bad way when I joined
asd. This newsgroup really did save my life.
Reading and following Jennifer's advice is what turned things around
for me. Of course, a lot of other people helped as well, but that
was the basic key turning point in gaining the control and
management over my bg levels that I now enjoy.
Before that the bg levels were very high, even though I was on the
max dose of a sulph (I reacted badly to metformin).
I no longer need it, in fact I had to drop it because of hypos! The
endo said my control was excellent! Yet all it took was the test,
test, test of different foods till I knew what spiked and what
didn't. As I eliminated or reduced different kinds of food, my A1c
came down steadily. It took about 6 mths to finally become eligible
for the 5% club. I lost weight steadily as well.
Oh what a feeling! (LOL)
Keeping in mind that my exercise levels are pretty low, due to
arthritis etc, it just goes to show. No snip of a girl is going to
change my mind!
Annette
The proof of the pudding is in not eating it.
Julie Bove
"Priscilla Ballou" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vze23t8n-E7C876...@news.verizon.net...
> > No. It just makes them tough. The trick is to make a
> > pinhole in the big end,
>
> How?
You can buy such a device. I used to have one. But the reason you make the
hole is supposedly to prevent them from cracking while they cook. Some of
my older cookbooks suggest the use of a stout needle. You merely press the
needle into the egg and make a little hole. FWIW, I didn't notice that
making a hole made a difference one way or the other, so I threw my little
device away. Got tired of stabbing myself on it when I reached in my
utensil drawer. Guess these days I could use it as a lancet!
kaci
"Julie Bove" <jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:vq2l73s...@corp.supernews.com...
> Some of
> my older cookbooks suggest the use of a stout needle. You merely
press the
> needle into the egg and make a little hole.
Merely? LOL! It's a lot less challenging for me to just add a bit of
salt or vinegar to the boiling water. Voila, no cracked eggs.
kaci
Julie Bove
"Priscilla Ballou" <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vze23t8n-9168B5...@news.verizon.net...
> That's what I was asking about. You can just push it through the shell?
Yeah. Haven't you ever made blown eggs? I know. I know. Somebody is
going to take this as a dirty remark. *L* We used to make them a lot when
we were kids. You simply poke a hole in both ends of the egg, then holding
it over a bowl, blow into the top of it until all the egg runs out. The fun
part of this is seeing how many times you'll come close to passing out
because it really takes a lot of time and a lot of blowing to get all the
eggs out. You then wash them carefully, let dry, and paint or decorate as
you wish. They are very fragile though and easy to break. To make them
more sturdy, you can fill them with melted wax, carefully sealing the bottom
so the wax won't drip out. You must also be careful not to get any wax on
the outside of the egg or it will be impossible to decorate. Using wax is a
technique they use to make Ukrainian Easter Eggs. I honestly can't remember
how I got the wax in the egg. I only did this once. Painted it with a
Spring scene using acrylic paints and used a Karom Ring glued to the bottom
as a base. My brother painted chicks on his and put a brass ring on the
bottom. We gave them to my parents as Easter gifts. They still have them.
They've lasted well for all these years. I think I was about 12 when I did
mine.
Colleen
c
"Julie Bove" <jnosp...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:vq2l73s...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
Julie Bove
"kaci" <kca...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tEcob.11198$X22....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Yeah. I add salt. I thought the vinegar was to make them all nice and
white or at least cleaner for decorating.
Julie Bove
"Colleen" <{oop...@hotmail.com}> wrote in message
news:vq2mdan...@corp.supernews.com...
> I wonder if a lancing device would work? A multi purpose tool.
It probably would! My little egg poker device looked a bit like a lancet
but it wasn't spring loaded.
Alan
wrote:
Like the sig.
Great story.
Of course, it also takes a bit of guts and discipline. Testing
wouldn't have helped if you hadn't acted on the results. So,
congratulations and thanks for the story - and for still being around.
Do us all a favour. Post this again next time somebody chimes in here
deriding "over-testing".
Alan
To minimise cracking. A squeeze of lemon or lime juice also works.
K'neH'a'Iw
>>Yeah. I add salt. I thought the vinegar was to make them all nice and
>>white or at least cleaner for decorating.
>
>
> To minimise cracking. A squeeze of lemon or lime juice also works.
The acid makes the shell softer. I remember an elementary school science
trick of sucking a raw egg into a bottle, which required soaking the egg
in vinegar, to make the shell more elastic. Lime or lemon juice would
have the same effect.
--
K'neH'a'Iw
Uncloaking, Shields up.
Priscilla Ballou
"Colleen" <{oop...@hotmail.com}> wrote:
> I wonder if a lancing device would work? A multi purpose tool.
Yes, that sprang (bzing!) into my mind, too.
Priscilla
JCG
I eat one hard-boiled egg white a day for breakfast. Once or twice a week, I
will consume the yolk as well. I buy my eggs in 1-1/2 dozen containers and
cook half of them at a time. I use a three-quart pot, fill it with water and
a pinch of salt. When it boils, I take each egg (not pin-pricked) and really
carefully, with a spider or nylon tongs, place each egg in the water. I turn
off the burner and cover the pan. It doesn't seem to matter how long they
stay in the water. They cook evenly, no green ring around the yolk and
fairly easy to shell. When I am done with them, I take a shallow bowl, fill
it with ice and rest the eggs in the bowl until they cool down (the ice
melts). This is my little egg boiling ritual. It always works for me and I
have steady supply of protein when I need it! I can use an egg white for a
quick snack. Yum (not!) I have very few cracked eggs. I think they crack
because of shell defects I didn't notice before I put them in the hot water.
By the way, I have an electric smooth-top cooktop and it retains the heat
for a while. This may be why my eggs cook the way they do.
Judy
"Herman Rubin" <hru...@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:bnr999$4e...@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
willbill
> >"willbill" wrote:
> <snip>
> >> 2. boil them longer
>
> No. It just makes them tough. The trick is to make a
> pinhole in the big end, start them in cold water, just
> bring to a boil, and if you want them cold, just let
> the water cool. If you want them hot, simmer gently
> for 12 minutes and plunge into cold water; this helps
> loosen the shells.
herman, thank you for taking pity on me
and posting. :)
the responses and ideas, in response to
your post, are the best
thank you also to vickie. :)
and yes, i really did get totally pissed off and
toss those unpeelable hard boiled eggs down
the road as far as i could throw them <g>
but that was a long time ago and i was
using really cheap eggs which may have
been a contributing factor
i'll try some pinholes with my next
dozen hard boiled eggs
i also plan to keep aging my eggs in
the fridge for a minimum of 2+ weeks
until i have more confidence of whether
it helps or not
the good news is that my hard boiled
eggs of this last 5 years have only had
minor peeling problems. :))
bill
willbill
> "Julie Bove" wrote:
> > Some of
> > my older cookbooks suggest the use of a stout needle.
> > You merely press the
> > needle into the egg and make a little hole.
> Merely? LOL! It's a lot less challenging for me to just add a bit of
> salt or vinegar to the boiling water. Voila, no cracked eggs.
i tried salt in the water and it didn't make
a bit of difference for making the eggs
more peelable
iow, i'm not too worried about one or two
cracked eggs coz it's easy to eat them first
otoh, thank you for identifying how to possibly
minimize egg shell cracking
bill
Julie Bove
"willbill" <posto...@sgmbi812isinvalidforemail.net> wrote in message
news:7gl2qvcpbfi3flu23...@4ax.com...
> i tried salt in the water and it didn't make
> a bit of difference for making the eggs
> more peelable
I don't think the salt makes them more peelable. I think it just helps to
prevent cracking. Not sure why though. I always thought it was because it
made the water a bit thicker, but this is just a guess.
<snip>
Pin-prick Steve
To test whether an egg is still good or not, if being refrigerated a long while, set the raw
egg in cold water with plenty of room to move around. If the egg floats, it's a BAD egg. If
it sinks to the bottom, it's a GOOD egg. This works with eggs just purchased at the store
also.
"I can't cook. I just eat!"
--
Steve
Type II since September 30, 2003
Amaryl, Metformin, & Choke Chain
"Diabetes Doesn't Have To Be Scary Stuff"
"Bipolars Are Real Swingers!"
"Ham Radio Doesn't Oink... (KA4TMB)
"willbill" <posto...@sgmbi812isinvalidforemail.net> wrote in message
news:3gl2qvc80nfdrend9...@4ax.com...
Alan
<que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>This post not CC'd by email
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:47:04 +0200, "Mano Govender"
><mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>
>>Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with keen interest.
>>Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies and All Blacks.
>
>Of course. <yeah right>
Hi Quentin
On cholesterol (the original focus of this thread :-) have a look at
these if you haven't seen them already :
Breakthrough for cholesterol control reported:
Doctor: Treatment is 'sort of liquid Drano for the coronary arteries'
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2200529
and that doctor's slide show (which I haven't viewed yet) at:
http://www.lipidsonline.org/slides/tray_act.cfm?tk=25&act=dl
And on Rugby, Mano was a wee bit optimistic. Good games to watch
yesterday.
Next Saturday, 8 pm DST - not sure what that is NZ time, are you two
or three hours in front when we are on daylight saving?
Pity the draw has us meeting in the semi rather than the final.
Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
dx May 2002, diet and not enough exercise.
Alan
<t2_lu...@abbottandabbott.com> wrote:
>Ahem,
>Alan you seem to have forgotten that here in the "Right-Side-Up" world we
>have a marvelous thing called cable or satellite TV. Not only have I and my
>friends watched Rugby, but also many a Springbok being chowed for a little
>lo-carb snackerino by hungry carnivores (Atkins no doubt)
>8))
>--
>--
>
>t2_lurking
I hope you've been watching some real football up there. Not that
stuff that stops every few seconds so they can work out what happened.
The other type that only really pauses when there is a score, or if an
injured player happens to get in the way.
Quentin and I probably won't be speaking to each other after next
weekend when the Wallabies meet the Kiwis.
Quentin Grady
<loralde...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:21:41 +1300, Quentin Grady
><que...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>This post not CC'd by email
>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:47:04 +0200, "Mano Govender"
>><mano...@thelani.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>>Nevertheless, the Rugby Wordl Cup is being followed here with keen interest.
>>>Off course, the Boks will beat the pants off the Wallabies and All Blacks.
>>
>>Of course. <yeah right>
>
>Hi Quentin
>
>On cholesterol (the original focus of this thread :-) have a look at
>these if you haven't seen them already :
>
>Breakthrough for cholesterol control reported:
>Doctor: Treatment is 'sort of liquid Drano for the coronary arteries'
>
>http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2200529
G'day G'day Alan,
I watched a TV presentation. Still I am somewhat puzzled. In five
weeks they achieved a 4% reduction in plaque. Imagine buying liquid
Drano that was THAT effective.
>and that doctor's slide show (which I haven't viewed yet) at:
>
>http://www.lipidsonline.org/slides/tray_act.cfm?tk=25&act=dl
For some reason it won't load at the moment.
>And on Rugby, Mano was a wee bit optimistic.
The betting on the TAB was interesting.
New Zealand $1.20 to win.
South Africa $4.50
With such a poor payout most punters here appeared to be going for
margins. One got better odds $3.30 to NZ to win by 12 points or less
than for NZ to about $2.00 for higher margins.
As we were entertaining a fabulous South African couple for the
evening I considered it politic to have a punt on the margins of 12 or
less either way. The cheering got pretty interesting when the All
Blacks got 12 points ahead. The Australian red wine (Redbank Shiraz
Sauvignon Cabernet) flowed along with the occasional Afrikaans as the
All Black played out of their skins to win by a 20 point margin.
The punters had it right.
>Good games to watch yesterday.
>Next Saturday, 8 pm DST - not sure what that is NZ time, are you two
>or three hours in front when we are on daylight saving?
>
>Pity the draw has us meeting in the semi rather than the final.
Too true. Mind you it has lead to some loony headlines here,
"Semi-Gods". <Yeah right> We have made it to the semi-finals.
Both the English and the French look good so it is going to be a hard
haul who ever makes it.
>Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
>dx May 2002, diet and not enough exercise.
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."
Quentin Grady
<loralde...@ozconnect.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:15:13 -0600, "t2_lurking"
><t2_lu...@abbottandabbott.com> wrote:
>
>>Ahem,
>>Alan you seem to have forgotten that here in the "Right-Side-Up" world we
>>have a marvelous thing called cable or satellite TV. Not only have I and my
>>friends watched Rugby, but also many a Springbok being chowed for a little
>>lo-carb snackerino by hungry carnivores (Atkins no doubt)
>>8))
>>--
>>--
>>
>>t2_lurking
>
>I hope you've been watching some real football up there. Not that
>stuff that stops every few seconds so they can work out what happened.
>The other type that only really pauses when there is a score, or if an
>injured player happens to get in the way.
G'day G'day Alan,
As what seems like the only New Zealand male to have not grown up
playing rugby and cricket I must confess that with the new rules it is
indeed a fast flowing game worth watching. The game NZ vs Wales had
fantastic tries scored by both sides.
>Quentin and I probably won't be speaking to each other after next
>weekend when the Wallabies meet the Kiwis.
I don't know about that.
We could probably still share a virtual beer.
>Cheers Alan, T2, Oz
>dx May 2002, diet and not enough exercise.
--