Re: Misdiagnosed?
%
"George Orwell" <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ef110daa4bd76846...@mixmaster.it...
> Anyone here been misdiagnosed with diabetes Type 2?
>
> Anyone here with Sjogren's who thought they had diabetes?
>
> I have symptoms characteristic of both diseases and the last meter tests
> I did did not confirm diabetes, following the usual recommended testing
> procedures and intervals.
>
> Differential diagnostic charts lists dry mouth as being a symptom of
> both diseases, but dry EYES is only listed for Sjogren's. I have both
> dry eyes and dry throat. Anyone here have dry eyes as a result of
> diabetes?
>
> Also anyone have bad reactions to Metformin that are not usually listed
> or cited by literature or doctors?
>
> Thanks for any answers to the questions asked in this the original post.
>
> Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
> non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
> reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
> di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
> Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
> https://www.mixmaster.it
>
hi , guppy lips
Julie Bove
"George Orwell" <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:ef110daa4bd76846...@mixmaster.it...
> Anyone here been misdiagnosed with diabetes Type 2?
>
> Anyone here with Sjogren's who thought they had diabetes?
>
> I have symptoms characteristic of both diseases and the last meter tests
> I did did not confirm diabetes, following the usual recommended testing
> procedures and intervals.
>
> Differential diagnostic charts lists dry mouth as being a symptom of
> both diseases, but dry EYES is only listed for Sjogren's. I have both
> dry eyes and dry throat. Anyone here have dry eyes as a result of
> diabetes?
>
> Also anyone have bad reactions to Metformin that are not usually listed
> or cited by literature or doctors?
>
> Thanks for any answers to the questions asked in this the original post.
I doubt you will find anyone here who was misdiagnosed with diabetes. Of
course when they were first misdiagnosed, they might come here but after
they find out they don't have diabetes, then why would they stick around?
I have trouble off and on with dry eyes, currently from blepharitis. I
don't know about diabetes causing dry eyes unless perhaps the person is
dehydrated.
Diabetes is never diagnosed by symptoms alone.
roofus
> Anyone here been misdiagnosed with diabetes Type 2?
>
> Anyone here with Sjogren's who thought they had diabetes?
>
> I have symptoms characteristic of both diseases and the last meter
> tests I did did not confirm diabetes, following the usual
recommended
> testing procedures and intervals.
>
> Differential diagnostic charts lists dry mouth as being a symptom
of
> both diseases, but dry EYES is only listed for Sjogren's. I have
both
> dry eyes and dry throat. Anyone here have dry eyes as a result of
> diabetes?
>
> Also anyone have bad reactions to Metformin that are not usually
> listed or cited by literature or doctors?
>
> Thanks for any answers to the questions asked in this the original
> post.
>
> Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
> non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
> reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
> di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
> Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
> https://www.mixmaster.it
>
>
Dry eyes is a common symptom associated with diabetes, look it up on
Mayo's site. S.S. shares many common clinical symptoms of diabetes,
including possible autonomic neuropathy that can effect the entire
body and organs.
Michael
> Anyone here been misdiagnosed with diabetes Type 2?
>
> Anyone here with Sjogren's who thought they had diabetes?
>
> I have symptoms characteristic of both diseases and the last meter tests
> I did did not confirm diabetes, following the usual recommended testing
> procedures and intervals.
>
> Differential diagnostic charts lists dry mouth as being a symptom of
> both diseases, but dry EYES is only listed for Sjogren's. I have both
> dry eyes and dry throat. Anyone here have dry eyes as a result of diabetes?
>
> Also anyone have bad reactions to Metformin that are not usually listed
> or cited by literature or doctors?
>
> Thanks for any answers to the questions asked in this the original post.
>
> Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
> non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
> reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
> di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
> Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
> https://www.mixmaster.it
>
I may be misdiagnosed myself. I was started on 1000 mg of metformin per
day. After 2 months, this had absolutely zero effect. In fact my BG
readings are slowly creeping up.
I emailed my doctor and asked for 2000 mg per day and to be tested for
whatever else might be wrong if the increased dose of metformin does not
have any effect.
I will wait a couple of months and if there is no improvement, I will
ask for further testing.
I assumed from my elevated levels of BG that I had insulin resistance
like is the most common cause for this symptom.
I just took an A1C test a couple of days ago and do not yet have the
result. I don't expect it to be very bad because I control my BG pretty
tightly by diet and exercise. It is just that even with very very severe
control of my diet, my BG is creeping up.
I think it is very easy for an endocrine disease that effects BG to be
misdiagnosed because T2 is the most obvious diagnosis. I personally
diagnosed myself and then told my doctor what was wrong. He accepted my
diagnosis, so I only have myself to blame if I was wrong. Obviously I am
no Dr. House.
Michael
bgl
news:lx6Zm.262962$mn3....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> I may be misdiagnosed myself. I was started on 1000 mg of metformin per
> day. After 2 months, this had absolutely zero effect. In fact my BG
> readings are slowly creeping up.
>
> I emailed my doctor and asked for 2000 mg per day and to be tested for
> whatever else might be wrong if the increased dose of metformin does not
> have any effect.
>
It's also possible that you have diabetes but that metformin just isn't the
right medication *for you.* Metformin &/or lifestyle changes may not work
for *you* even if you do have diabetes. You may need something more &/or
something different. There are other meds out there, though some here will
wince in horror at the thought of taking them. There is even insulin, if
nothing else works. Even for a T2.
Not that checking other stuff as well is such a bad idea.
You *can* have more than one problem.
bj
W. Baker
: Michael
I lost centrat vision in my left ee some 13-14 years ago becaused my
macular edema was misdiagnosed as diabetic edema , rahter than wet macualr
degeneration and, when treated with a laser, had an alost immediate
hemmorage, followed soon thereafter by two more. I don't tink there was
much thaht was being done for wet macular degeneration at that time, but
when I developed similar symptoms in my right eye some 4-5 years ago I was
no longer seeing a regular opthamologist, but a retin specialist who
identified the issue quite proptly, filled me in on vision aids and sent
me to the super-specialist I now see who haad been keeping her 94 year old
father seeing. I receive regular tretmen adn have ben even improving
lately. I wil never see totally normaly with my treted right eye by am
much better than I was some years ago.
I receive, currently, monthly tretments with a frightfully expensive drug,
Lucentis, but hope to be able to soon extend the time between treatments.
I do have to think about the alternative, which would be much more
expensive for me and the society were I to become funtionally blind as I
woudl need a gret deal of help and my husband, who I can manage,
currently, would also have to have care.
Make sure tht your diagnosis is not the quick one, but the correct one.
Wendy
Peppermint Patootie
Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I may be misdiagnosed myself. I was started on 1000 mg of metformin per
> day. After 2 months, this had absolutely zero effect. In fact my BG
> readings are slowly creeping up.
Michael, you have been told many times that 1000 mg of metformin is not
expected to show any results since it is less than the standard
therapeutic dosage. Why do you continue to ignore this fact?
PP
Michelle C.
I agree with bj on this one, Michael. Not ALL diabetes is due to
insulin resistance--which is what the metformin addresses. There are
other malfunctions that cause diabetes besides insulin resistance.
However, that said, I also agree with bj (and Susan) that there might be
other issues.
Unfortunately, this disease, like so many others is not binary--all 0's
and 1's. ;-)
Best regards,
Michelle C., T2, no meds
Julie Bove
"Michael" <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:lx6Zm.262962$mn3....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>> Anyone here been misdiagnosed with diabetes Type 2?
>>
>> Anyone here with Sjogren's who thought they had diabetes?
>>
>> I have symptoms characteristic of both diseases and the last meter tests
>> I did did not confirm diabetes, following the usual recommended testing
>> procedures and intervals.
>>
>> Differential diagnostic charts lists dry mouth as being a symptom of
>> both diseases, but dry EYES is only listed for Sjogren's. I have both
>> dry eyes and dry throat. Anyone here have dry eyes as a result of
>> diabetes?
>>
>> Also anyone have bad reactions to Metformin that are not usually listed
>> or cited by literature or doctors?
>>
>> Thanks for any answers to the questions asked in this the original post.
>>
>> Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
>> non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
>> reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
>> di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
>> Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
>> https://www.mixmaster.it
>>
>
> I may be misdiagnosed myself. I was started on 1000 mg of metformin per
> day. After 2 months, this had absolutely zero effect. In fact my BG
> readings are slowly creeping up.
The most effective dose is 1500 mg daily. And if your BG is creeping up
then why would you think you were mis-diagnosed? Unless you mean that you
think you are type 1 and not type 2. Did the Dr. check your C-Peptide.
>
> I emailed my doctor and asked for 2000 mg per day and to be tested for
> whatever else might be wrong if the increased dose of metformin does not
> have any effect.
Could be you need an additional diabetes med and/or insulin.
>
> I will wait a couple of months and if there is no improvement, I will ask
> for further testing.
>
> I assumed from my elevated levels of BG that I had insulin resistance like
> is the most common cause for this symptom.
Never assume anything.
>
> I just took an A1C test a couple of days ago and do not yet have the
> result. I don't expect it to be very bad because I control my BG pretty
> tightly by diet and exercise. It is just that even with very very severe
> control of my diet, my BG is creeping up.
Could be you are not eating enough carbs. If I eat extremely low carb, my
BG goes up.
>
> I think it is very easy for an endocrine disease that effects BG to be
> misdiagnosed because T2 is the most obvious diagnosis. I personally
> diagnosed myself and then told my doctor what was wrong. He accepted my
> diagnosis, so I only have myself to blame if I was wrong. Obviously I am
> no Dr. House.
What? He accepted your diagnosis and didn't test you? Why are you still
seeing him?
Michael
PP,
I did not ignore this at all. In fact that is the prime reason I went to
my doctor and asked him to change my prescription to 2000 mg per day. I
will let you know if the 2000 mg works. I expect I will find out within
a couple of months.
If someone here has a good idea how long it takes metformin to hit,
please let me know. I understand that after two months and nothing
happens, then the metformin is not working.
Clearly 1000 mg does zero for me. I hope 2000 mg works and that my
problem is not more serious.
Michael
Michael
I don't know why I should not see him. He accepted the obvious
diagnosis. It was my own diagnosis. He gave me a BG tolerance test. My
BG soared up but did not stay long enough to be officially diagnosed as
T2. I fall into the pre-diabetes classification. I personally don't
believe in the category. T2 is T2.
We live in a rural area where more sophisticated testing is not easily
available. I suspect I will be traveling if the 2000 mg does not work.
So anyway, I certainly cannot fault my doctor if it turns out that I am
not insulin resistant. Almost any physician is going to go with what is
the most obvious. Our town has a pretty high average age, and I think at
least half of us have T2. It is endemic. The odds that I have late onset
T1 or some other condition are pretty small.
My experience with physicians is that most of them go ahead and accept
whatever I have theorized is wrong. There has been one glaring exception
to this. I diagnosed myself with anemia and asked to be treated for it.
My doctor asked a lot of questions did some tests and found that I was
simply not looking deep enough. I had a bleeding ulcer. The loss of
blood caused the anemia. If I had been simply treated for anemia, I
could have been in trouble.
Michael
Julie Bove
> I don't know why I should not see him. He accepted the obvious diagnosis.
> It was my own diagnosis. He gave me a BG tolerance test. My BG soared up
> but did not stay long enough to be officially diagnosed as T2. I fall into
> the pre-diabetes classification. I personally don't believe in the
> category. T2 is T2.
Then what you said was not true! You said YOU diagnosed yourself and he
accepted it. I do not know what a BG tolerance test is. Perhaps it was an
OGTT? If so, that would be the diagnosis. However this will only diagnose
diabetes and not the type. Did you know there are over 300 variations of
diabetes? And yet mostly we are all lumped into type 1 or type 2. Are you
over 40 and overweight? If so, most Drs. would just assume that you are
type 2. But this isn't always the case.
As for pre-diabetes, I do not believe it is the same thing as type 2. It
hasn't progressed. My one SIL had it. The only time she had high BG was
after breakfast and this was all the time no matter what she ate. Never
high BG during the day no matter what she ate or didn't eat. She was
however morbidly obese and had assorted other medical issues. She has since
lost over half of her body weight and kept it off. She no longer has high
BG but still has to test herself and go for testing at the Dr. like a
diabetic would. In her case, the Dr. suspected diabetes many years before
she was diagnosed. He was testing her like...every three months for it. It
got to the point where she was annoyed by all the testing. She is one of
the lucky ones in that regard. It was caught early. Too bad she had and
still has other medical issues that have yet to be sorted out.
>
> We live in a rural area where more sophisticated testing is not easily
> available. I suspect I will be traveling if the 2000 mg does not work.
What kind of more sophisticated testing to you want? All they need to do is
a blood draw and send it to the lab. And why are you insisting that the Dr.
bump you up to more than the effective dose? Sounds like you think you
ought to be the Dr.
>
> So anyway, I certainly cannot fault my doctor if it turns out that I am
> not insulin resistant. Almost any physician is going to go with what is
> the most obvious. Our town has a pretty high average age, and I think at
> least half of us have T2. It is endemic. The odds that I have late onset
> T1 or some other condition are pretty small.
Again, why is it the most obvious? And what do the odds have to do with it?
>
> My experience with physicians is that most of them go ahead and accept
> whatever I have theorized is wrong. There has been one glaring exception
> to this. I diagnosed myself with anemia and asked to be treated for it. My
> doctor asked a lot of questions did some tests and found that I was simply
> not looking deep enough. I had a bleeding ulcer. The loss of blood caused
> the anemia. If I had been simply treated for anemia, I could have been in
> trouble.
Stop diagnosing yourself. That's your problem.
My friend was once diagnosed with anemia. And indeed she had it. But as
you said, from a bleeding ulcer. She nearly bled to death. I had to wheel
her out in her computer chair from work and drive her to the hospital
because she was too weak to do it. Alas, I have had anemia myself and it
seems most Drs. do not look for a cause in this case. They simply treat it.
Wrong thing to do IMO.
Julie Bove
What do you mean by more serious?
Freckles
"Peppermint Patootie" <Peppermin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Peppermint_Patootie-...@news.individual.net...
____________________________________________
I had a daily dose of 500mg of metformin added to my other meds (4mg
Glimepiride twice a day) and there was an improvement in my BG almost
immediately, and it has remained good for over a year now.
Freckles
Julie Bove
"Freckles" <frec...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:6OadnQQx06hJ-KjW...@giganews.com...
But I think in this case it is the "in addition to other meds".
Michael
Well, Freckles, I have been told here that even 1000 mg does nothing.
But clearly you experience belies that belief.
I was at 1000 mg we no effect. Now I have gone up to 2000 mg. I have
been on 2000 for about 5 days now. Still no effect.
Methinks that metformin is not helping. I may not even have insulin
resistance.
Michael
Michael
More serious could be a pancreas that is shutting down production of
insulin. It could mean pancreatic cancer, or a host of other ills. I
would rather it be simple insulin resistance, but it may well not be.
Please note that Freckles reports that 500 mg per day is effective. You
would think that if my doctor prescribed 1000 mg, he actually expected
it to have some beneficial effect. So, I am only upping the dose now to
act as a diagnostic tool to help rule out insulin resistance.
Michael
Julie Bove
And how would this be more serious?
>
> Please note that Freckles reports that 500 mg per day is effective. You
> would think that if my doctor prescribed 1000 mg, he actually expected it
> to have some beneficial effect. So, I am only upping the dose now to act
> as a diagnostic tool to help rule out insulin resistance.
He or she, but I think it's a he is taking additional meds. Go to your Dr.
and have him to a C-Peptide test. It's a quick and simple blood test.
Messing with your meds won't give you the answer. Metformin isn't effective
for everyone. Just like Januvia and Starlix did nothing for me. I am
highly insulin resistant.
W. Baker
: PP,
: Michael
If you will be upping your dose from 1000to 2,000 take it up only 500mgs
at a time and wait about 4 days to a week before ging tothe full dose.
this may help prevent or lessen any gstric issues you may have at the
higher dose. Even though I was on the extended release version, I had to
go bck and slowl ramp up after I had been 5 days without metformin during
hospitalization after an auto accident.
Wendy
Michelle C.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michael wrote:
>
>> Well, Freckles, I have been told here that even 1000 mg does nothing.
>> But clearly you experience belies that belief.
>
> powerful effects on me, even at that dose. But all of the effects were
> bad.
>
> What you've been told is that the *usual* therapeutic dose is 1500 mg
> per day and that you can't rule out benefits til you've tried it, not
> that lower does nothing. A lot of folks get benefits and/or ill effects
> on much less than 1500 mg per day.
I have to add to Susan's post. Michael you keep trying to look at this
disease as strictly an engineering problem. We are not machines and
everyone responds differently to food, meds, exercise, etc. You are
oversimplifying and drawing faulty conclusions.
Here are some of the "many" possibilities in regard to the metformin:
1. A bigger dose of metformin "may" help you.
2. You are diabetic, but one of those--like me--for whom insulin
resistance is not the primary issue.
3. Your beta blocker is the cause of your sugar issues.
4. You may have an underlying endocrine disorder like Susan does.
5. Some combination thereof.
To jump to the conclusion of pancreatic shut down or cancer (like you
mentioned in another post) is a huge leap from where you are now. There
are so many diabetics on ASD who sugar-wise are so much worse off than
you, and none of them (unless they are Type 1s) have full pancreatic
shut down or cancer.
Get a grip guy! You are obsessing again.
Michelle C.
MI
On 12/25/09 10:23 PM, in article
RZhZm.409492$Xw3.4...@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com, "Michael"
<mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
500mg works because it is in addition to other drugs. If you really want to
get better than you are, stop deciding what you want and what you have and
how it should be treated. Remember your doctor has had at least 8 years of
training, you've had none. I'm amazed your doctor hasn't told you to get
lost.
--
Martha T2 Canada
1500mg. Metformin, 10mg. Singulair,
50mcg. Synthroid, 10mg. Altace,
500/50mg. Advair
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Michelle C.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>> Susan wrote:
>
>> Here are some of the "many" possibilities in regard to the metformin:
>>
>> 1. A bigger dose of metformin "may" help you.
>> 2. You are diabetic, but one of those--like me--for whom insulin
>> resistance is not the primary issue.
>> 3. Your beta blocker is the cause of your sugar issues.
>> 4. You may have an underlying endocrine disorder like Susan does.
>
>
>> 5. Some combination thereof.
>>
>> To jump to the conclusion of pancreatic shut down or cancer (like you
>> mentioned in another post) is a huge leap from where you are now.
>> There are so many diabetics on ASD who sugar-wise are so much worse
>> off than you, and none of them (unless they are Type 1s) have full
>> pancreatic shut down or cancer.
>>
>> Get a grip guy! You are obsessing again.
>
>
> Susan
Thank you, Susan. I'm a bit worried about Michael--and not in regard to
his bg. A lot of diabetics would kill to have bg readings like Michael.
But his negative imaginings are frightening, and totally out of
proportion with the reality. That's worrisome.
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Michael
The truth of the matter is that almost every doctor I have ever had
treated me for what I thought I had. It has been rare for me to
encounter a doctor who took exception to my own diagnosis. Maybe that is
my bad luck. I was lucky about the bleeding ulcer.
I only prognosticated on what else might be wrong with me because
someone here seemed to think that nothing worse than IR could be wrong.
I know it could be worse. I truly hope not.
I will consult with my doctor and talk to him again about beta blockers
and T2. The last time I brought up this issue he was ignorant of the
relationship. I gave him some URLs to look at. Maybe he will have a
better opinion now.
Again, I live in a rural area. I do not have a lot of choices for a
doctor. Our town seems to go through doctors pretty quickly. They move
here for the beautiful country side and recreational opportunities and
then make plans to leave after they endure the first winter. I am on my
4th doctor in 3 years. The previous three moved away. When I go into the
clinic, I now always check the wall to see if my doctor's picture is
still there. I don't think it is me.
Michael
Julie Bove
"Michelle C." <michelle_of...@ATyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hh5qdj$ig$1...@news.albasani.net...
Agreed!
Julie Bove
> The truth of the matter is that almost every doctor I have ever had
> treated me for what I thought I had. It has been rare for me to encounter
> a doctor who took exception to my own diagnosis. Maybe that is my bad
> luck. I was lucky about the bleeding ulcer.
>
Seriously? I wouldn't see any of those Drs. then if they just accepted at
face value what you told them.
> I only prognosticated on what else might be wrong with me because someone
> here seemed to think that nothing worse than IR could be wrong. I know it
> could be worse. I truly hope not.
Again, I fail to see why you think someone with type 1 is worse than having
insulin resistance. Two different things but I don't think one is any worse
than the other. They both have the same outcome.
>
> I will consult with my doctor and talk to him again about beta blockers
> and T2. The last time I brought up this issue he was ignorant of the
> relationship. I gave him some URLs to look at. Maybe he will have a better
> opinion now.
Yet another reason why you should fihnd another Dr.
>
> Again, I live in a rural area. I do not have a lot of choices for a
> doctor. Our town seems to go through doctors pretty quickly. They move
> here for the beautiful country side and recreational opportunities and
> then make plans to leave after they endure the first winter. I am on my
> 4th doctor in 3 years. The previous three moved away. When I go into the
> clinic, I now always check the wall to see if my doctor's picture is still
> there. I don't think it is me.
Then perhaps you'll have to drive a ways. I've had to do it.
Rav1ng rabbit
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:36:36 +0000 (UTC), che
> <c...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Do not take your doctors word without a thorough investigation. Use
>> Medline and other online resources to check and read up on your
>> symptoms. Many diseases can be diagnosed this way WITHOUT the need
>> for diagnostic tests and the tests can be used to confirm your
>> clinical profile. Doctors nowadays don't even take adequate patient
>> histories and what you get from that is substandard incompetent
>> treatment. In fact one doctor probably CAUSED my diabetes (no
>> history in my family) by his drug recommendations. Also don't
>> believe the bull many post here. Research multiple sources. There is
>> so much on the web that is good that you can use.
>
> the poster Che is an unknown to the group.
>
So what?
--
Well, opinions are like assholes... everybody has one. -- Harry Callahan
http://tinyurl.com/m7m3qd
Michael
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:28:43 -0600, Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> More serious could be a pancreas that is shutting down production of
>> insulin. It could mean pancreatic cancer, or a host of other ills. I
>> would rather it be simple insulin resistance, but it may well not be.
>
> frequently misdiagnosed as type 2.
>
>>
>> Please note that Freckles reports that 500 mg per day is effective. You
>> would think that if my doctor prescribed 1000 mg, he actually expected
>> it to have some beneficial effect. So, I am only upping the dose now to
>> act as a diagnostic tool to help rule out insulin resistance.
>>
>> Michael
>
>
> Go discuss this with your doctor.
>
I did discuss this with my doctor and he agreed to double my dose of
metformin. My wife thinks I tend to tell the doctor what treatment I
should get instead of inviting them to use their education to form their
own diagnosis. I suppose it is a fault of mine.
My doctor agreed to use this treatment (2000mg/day metformin) as a
diagnostic tool to see if further investigation should be done.
I think I need to see my doctor with the intention of trying to use his
or her diagnostic abilities rather than my own.
I go to the internet and look up everything I can about a health concern
of mine and then form my own diagnosis before I see a physician. I
always assumed that everyone else did the same thing. Now I see that I
am probably in a minority.
Michael
Michael
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:23:44 -0600, Michael<mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, Freckles, I have been told here that even 1000 mg does nothing.
>> But clearly you experience belies that belief.
>>
>> I was at 1000 mg we no effect. Now I have gone up to 2000 mg. I have
>> been on 2000 for about 5 days now. Still no effect.
>>
>> Methinks that metformin is not helping. I may not even have insulin
>> resistance.
>>
>> Michael
>
> what works for one may not work for another.
>
> It is very common for type 2s on met to start out with low doses and
> slowly ramp that up to the level it's starts working.
>
> 1st because a sudden high dose will cause more gastric problems that
> slowly ramping the dose from low to the level it works for the
> individual.
>
> 2nd because docs simply cannot tell how much met will work without
> experimenting on each individual. If it works at all.
>
> Metformin is a medication that must be in the system for a minimum
> time frame at a certain level before it will have any effect. Simply
> taking one pill or changing the dose one day will not show results.
>
> If you are convinced that you do not have insulin resistance then go
> talk to your doctor. No one here can test you, no one here can
> diagnose you.
>
I am not convinced of anything at this point. I am up in the air about
my real diagnosis. Susan feels it is probably the beta blocker. I
suspect she is right. However, I am like many here, between a rock and a
hard place. My beta blocker blocks exertional angina. I intend to discus
this again at my next visit with my doctor. I am sure that he will then
send me 100 miles away to see my cardiologist.
My physician has already talked to me about this issue. He said, I don't
remember his exact words, but it amounted to this. "If you stop taking
your beta blocker and have a heart attack, they can put on your
tombstone that you had great BG readings before you died."
So, I can try and wean myself off the beta blocker again. However, I
won't do that without my docs approval. I doubt with the BG numbers I am
presenting that he will approve. I suspect he will just tell me to
continue my rather severe diet to hold down the numbers and that as long
as I am below 140, not to worry. My cardiologist told me to eat fruit
even if I got spikes as high as 160. I did not take that advice. I don't
believe that fruit is necessary for life. I do believe that salads are
necessary.
I am doing my best here to treat myself with what I know. I am no longer
obsessing about my health. I just mentioned here that there are other
possible diagnosis for my high BG numbers. I am actually very happy with
my life. We live in a comfortable 1300 square foot cottage in the upper
peninsula of Michigan. I live with a woman I have loved almost my entire
life. To be honest, I can say that life is good. We have an adequate
retirement income to support ourselves and still do hobbies. We cannot
travel like many do. But, we are very grateful for what we have.
Michael
Michael
> x-no-archive: Yes
>
> M�ck�� wrote:
>
>> reread what the poster wrote. if you trust that advise I have some
>> very valuable swamp front property for sale very cheap that you will
>> just love to invest in for your future.
>>
>>
>
> If I'd done what the OP said, I wouldn't be paying the price of decades
> of iatrogenic injury now and for the past 40 some years.
>
> There's nothing wrong with doing enough research to help yourself; it's
> imperative since PCPs no longer have enough time to see you and listen
> for very long, much less hit the books and think about your case for
> more than 15 minutes.
>
> I developed and operated clinical case management programs for years,
> and doing the homework and research that doctors weren't doing save a
> lot of sick folks a lot of avoidable medical injuries from the wrong
> care, or neglect, or both. Prevented drug interactions,
> hospitalizations, you name it.
>
> Susan
Susan,
I think there are a lot of us here who appreciate your contribution to
this group. You have the advantage here of being very blunt with people.
You could not have done that in a clinic.
I appreciate that you are candid with what you think. I realize that I
cannot change myself overnight. It is a long journey. If you believe in
reincarnation, it is a very long journey.
I suppose that you sometimes get frustrated with me. I don't always do
what you think is the logical thing to do. I had an outburst a few weeks
ago because of my reaction to a poster that pushed one of my buttons.
This is my first time on a newsgroup that I intend to remain a member. I
am slowly learning how to manage my disease and be civil on this
newsgroup. Being civil is not always easy when I feel like someone has
taken a shot at me. I have certainly seen people here take shots at you.
I noticed that you did not resort to a flame.
Michael
Michelle C.
Actually Michael, I would say that you are NOT in the minority.
However, just as you use the information you gain from internet
research, your doctor is another resource like all of the articles
you've read.
When I go to the doctor with a problem, I go and tell her my symptoms,
and then see if she comes up with the same possibilities that I did. If
so, then I figure I did good research, that she and I are likely to be
on the same page, and we can go from there. If I tell her my symptoms
and she comes up with something different, then I ask her why she thinks
what she does, and ask her about the possibilities I came up with.
After all, maybe I missed something.
If you approach a doctor and say I have this diagnosis--which may or may
not be true--then depending on the personality of the doctor (they are
human after all) you are cutting off a good resource. If your doctor is
mild-mannered, he may not want to countermand you. If your doctor is a
control freak (although yours doesn't sound that way), then he may
totally disregard what you've come up with because he didn't think of
it. (I know from personal experience--and the doctor who did this to me
was a very knowledgeable fellow. After that I learned to stick with
listing my symptoms and conferring after he'd had a chance to come to a
conclusion.) In any case, by not giving the doctor a chance to apply
his/her training and experience, you may be cheating yourself.
(This post is for use with doctors whom you can establish a good-working
relationship--not those who should be avoided at all costs.)
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Michelle C.
Michael,
What would be wrong with maintaining the beta blocker AND living with
your bgs numbers as they are? The numbers you've been posting would be
the envy of many and don't seem to be worsening, and the beta blocker is
preventing angina. It doesn't sound like a bad place to me.
Michelle C.
Cheri
news:7pptvg...@mid.individual.net...
> Michael, I don't read the flames/shots due to kill filing, mostly. When I
> do see them, they're from meaningless, buzzing little ASD gnats, IMO.
> They certainly don't get under my skin or into my head enough for me to
> bother about them.
Well, they bother me. I certainly don't mind differences of opinion at all,
since we all learn what works for us as individuals that way, but I dislike
meaness just for the sake of being mean, and posters who wait for another
poster to post, just so they can jump on the person, not the content of the
post.
Cheri
MI
On 12/27/09 12:15 PM, in article hh8f8d$3uc$1...@news.albasani.net, "Michelle
C." <michelle_of...@ATyahoo.com> wrote:
I think you have given good advice. I wish I had thought of it. How much we
all can learn in any subject if we have a good interactive conversation.
Michael
Thanks Michelle,
The approach you described seems like the best thing to do when we need
help.
I will restrain my impulse to blurt out a diagnosis. Contrary to a few
opinions here, I too think it is a good idea to do as much research as
is possible for our untrained minds to digest.
I think that putting yourself entirely in the hands of your physician is
unwise. I think we must take some responsibility for ourselves. I
suspect it is somewhat tempting to treat our physicians as big daddies
or mommies but this is not in our best interest.
Michael
Michael
>>
>> Michael
>
> Michael,
>
> What would be wrong with maintaining the beta blocker AND living with
> your bgs numbers as they are? The numbers you've been posting would be
> the envy of many and don't seem to be worsening, and the beta blocker is
> preventing angina. It doesn't sound like a bad place to me.
>
> Michelle C.
Michelle,
You may very well be right. Messing around trying to get my BG numbers
to be perfect may actually turn out to be counter-productive.
Trying to wean myself off the beta-blocker could actually be
catastrophic according to my physician.
There maybe some medication I could take that might improve my numbers
while still taking a beta blocker. Of course, it may have some adverse
effect that I had not anticipated.
A big part of my motivation to lower my numbers is to be able to eat
some fruit once in a while. I should probably just get over this and
move on.
I had not considered staying where I am with T2 until you just mentioned
it. It may not be a bad suggestion. Fooling around with new medications
can be hazardous.
Michael
Julie Bove
Yep. I'd say so.
Cheri
> x-no-archive: Yes
>
> Cheri wrote:
>
>> Well, they bother me. I certainly don't mind differences of opinion at
>> all, since we all learn what works for us as individuals that way, but I
>> dislike meaness just for the sake of being mean, and posters who wait for
>> another poster to post, just so they can jump on the person, not the
>> content of the post.
>
>
>
> Susan
Well, my color coding looks quite festive during the Holiday Season. LOL
Cheri
BessieBee
>BULL. Most doctors are quacks and I generally know more than they do
>from a few days of researching on the net, both medical journals
>under medline and places like this.
Just who do you think writes & edits those medical journals and online
articles?
--
BessieBee
Leslie
OOF :-)
"My face, I don't mind it because I am behind it.
It's the folks out front that get the jolt."
~My Grandma, 1898-1981~
BessieBee
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>BessieBee wrote:
>
>> Just who do you think writes & edits those medical journals and online
>> articles?
>
>Actually, if you read the laments of a lot of scientists and journal
>publishers, it's not scientists or doctors.
My brother, whose last name is followed by an alphabet of letters,
starting with M.D., M.P.H., has authored many articles for medical
journals (emphasis on neonatology and medical ethics) and has edited
even more.
Why would a journal publisher be lamenting the quality of its
authors/editors? Or are you implying they're lamenting the quality of
its "competitors"?
As in everything else, you must know your source and that could
require even more research on your part, but to blanket condemn "most
doctors" as quacks is ignorant.
Michelle C.
Thank you Martha. :-) You're right, we all have pieces of the puzzle,
and draw these out in our discussions. I'm glad to hear that this post
might have been one of my better ones! ;-)
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Michelle C.
>
> I think that putting yourself entirely in the hands of your physician is
> unwise. I think we must take some responsibility for ourselves. I
> suspect it is somewhat tempting to treat our physicians as big daddies
> or mommies but this is not in our best interest.
>
> Michael
Agreed! The trick is to find a happy medium. :-)
Michelle C.
Michelle C.
I'm glad that maybe I was helpful to you, Michael. :-)
Michelle C.
Michelle C.
> x-no-archive: Yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>
>> What would be wrong with maintaining the beta blocker AND living with
>> your bgs numbers as they are?
>
> feeling like blacking out upon standing and very low bp since low
> carbing, not uncommon to the diet change.
>
> I can't imagine that given those changes (and some non doctor's office
> bp readings that show the lows), his doc wouldn't want to lower the beta
> blocker slowly, with weeks between changes. But it has to be done
> carefully, if it's done at all.
>
> Susan
The bp is another matter, and I agree the fainting spells should be
addressed--which may involve decreasing the amount of beta blocker
Michael is taking. However, Michael's pressing concern has been his bg
numbers, and I don't think they themselves warrant changing his beta
blocker. The bg numbers need to be removed from the equation at this
point. That's all I'm trying to say.
Best regards,
Michelle C.
ellerby
<Bess...@fakeaddress.com> posted:
<snip to cut to my OT stuff>
> BessieBee
> Leslie
> OOF :-)
> "My face, I don't mind it because I am behind it.
> It's the folks out front that get the jolt."
> ~My Grandma, 1898-1981~
Ah, Yeah, G'day BessieBee.
I used to collect limericks in my youth.
This has been one of my favourite limericks for years.
Your Grandma may have read it when it was first published.
Thanks for the reminder to re-visit my collection.
THE FACE*
As a beauty I'm not a great star.
There are others more handsome by far.
But my face I don't mind it.
Because I'm behind it 嚙碼
'Tis the folks in the front that I jar.
* This limerick, written by the author some years ago, has been accredited
to a variety of different sources.
It will be chiefly remembered as the favorite limerick of President Wilson,
who has used it on a number of notable occasions.
Reproduced from
THE LIMERATOMY
As I lay In my bed on the flat o' me,
I was shocked at the sight of the fat o' me,
So to keep my nerves steady,
I concocted and edi..
.. ted this luminous, lim'rick anatomy.
THE LIMERATOMY - A COMPENDIUM OF UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE
FOR THE MORE PERFECT UNDERSTANDING OF THE HUMAN MACHINE
BY ANTHONY EUWER
Done in the Limerick Tongue and Copiously Visualized with Illustragraphs
' by the Perpetrator
Copyright. 1917, by JAMES B. POND Published, July, 1917
-----------
Composed Ozdate Mon 28/12 11:23 am and posted when back online.
All with the usual proviso - IANAL IMHO YMMV ...
.... and Wes' Guidelines re judging others:
Lindsay in OZ
(Which only *partly* explains the date, spelling and thinking styles)
M, 57, Non diabetic but familiarly involved.
So I lurk, don't post often - usually in non medical threads.
-
"It is in the shelter of each other that people live."
Irish Proverb
BessieBee
>> As in everything else, you must know your source and that could
>> require even more research on your part, but to blanket condemn "most
>> doctors" as quacks is ignorant.
>
>
>I said that they don't write, review and edit all "those medical
>journals and online articles."
Thanks for the links. I'll follow up with them later.
I didn't mean "you" personally, that was a generic, covers everyone
"you" and referred to the post I originally replied to.
OK, now that I've confused myself I'm going to go watch TV. :-)
Julie Bove
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>> Susan wrote:
>
>> The bp is another matter, and I agree the fainting spells should be
>> addressed--which may involve decreasing the amount of beta blocker
>> Michael is taking. However, Michael's pressing concern has been his bg
>> numbers, and I don't think they themselves warrant changing his beta
>> blocker. The bg numbers need to be removed from the equation at this
>> point. That's all I'm trying to say.
>
> discussion, was it? I may've missed it. I know the fact that the drug
> raises his bg has been discussed, and since he's been running very low bp,
> he *may* be able to kill two birds with one stone. But beta blockers must
> be tapered very slowly, if at all, and over a period of time, not days or
> necessarily weeks, even.
They can raise BG but can also mask the signs of hypo. In my case it was
thought that it might be causing the hypos I was having. I was taking it
for BP though and not why he is. I went to an ACE inhibitor. Then when I
was hyperthyroid and had a racing heart, I was put back on a Beta Blocker
briefly. Luckily, lowering my dose and eventually taking me off of the
thyroid med solved that problem.
%
"j" <j...@j.net> wrote in message news:hh9ig1$mae$1...@news.albasani.net...
> Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:7eQZm.451129
> $BL3.4...@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com:
> common side effect and I know of at least one prominent neurologist
> that warns that such classes of drugs cause the brain to shut down
> and may lead to subclinical brain damage. They also disturb normal
> sleep patterns.
>
> If your trying to lower your BG levels you might try GTF, a form of
> yeast derive chromium that improves insulin sensitivity and has the
> side advantage of bettering your lipid profiles.
>
> Also there is bitter melon, but only take the type that does not
> contain any ginseng as ginseng is a stimulant and not good for the
> heart.
>
> There are a host of herbal and food derived products you can add to
> your food to lower BG levels. They are not as effective as MET, but
> they also do not have the severe side effects that Met can and
> frequently does have.
>
> Whatever you do do not stop bet blockers abruptly, u must gradually
> lower the dosage over time.
>
> Are you taking a low dose aspirin daily. If you do not have any
> gastro problems or stomach problems, that is a good thing to take
> for the heart and also to improve circulation that is slowed by
> excessive blood sugar and damage to blood vessels caused by high BG
> over time. How much exercising are you doing, what are you doing and
> how often?
>
> Eat fruit in small amounts. Low carb, low glycemic index foods and
> moderate protein intake is best. Avoid all oil frying and vegetable
> oils, low sodium diet, fats from nuts and avocados and oily fish.
> Eat salmon or sardines twice a week at least.
>
> Do not trust doctors. Take charge of your own medical care, you will
> be much better off.
if i didn't trust my doctor i'd be dead i wonder if this is why you aren't
doing well
Julie Bove
"j" <j...@j.net> wrote in message news:hh9ig1$mae$1...@news.albasani.net...
> Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:7eQZm.451129
> $BL3.4...@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com:
>
>>
>>>>
>
>>
>>>>
What nonsense. If you are going to take chromium you should take
piccolinate and not gtf! Bitter melon does indeed have side effects. Look
it up.
Why should he eat fruit? Why no salt? Why no oil? That's not necessarily
a healthy diet.
And who are you?
sometimers
> Do not trust doctors. Take charge of your own medical care, you will
> be much better off.
Doctors are only human. As in all matters of importance,
trust, but verify.
Michael
>
> Beta blockers can have others side effects as well. Depression is a
> common side effect and I know of at least one prominent neurologist
> that warns that such classes of drugs cause the brain to shut down
> and may lead to subclinical brain damage. They also disturb normal
> sleep patterns.
>
When I was 20 and working in Europe by myself and mostly could not speak
the language of the countries where I worked, I got depressed.
No depressions since then.
> If your trying to lower your BG levels you might try GTF, a form of
> yeast derive chromium that improves insulin sensitivity and has the
> side advantage of bettering your lipid profiles.
>
> Also there is bitter melon, but only take the type that does not
> contain any ginseng as ginseng is a stimulant and not good for the
> heart.
I have become pretty careful about introducing any new medication. I
would not want to suffer interactions with what I take now.
>
> There are a host of herbal and food derived products you can add to
> your food to lower BG levels. They are not as effective as MET, but
> they also do not have the severe side effects that Met can and
> frequently does have.
So far, I have had no side effects from Met that lasted more than a
couple of weeks.
>
> Whatever you do do not stop bet blockers abruptly, u must gradually
> lower the dosage over time.
>
> Are you taking a low dose aspirin daily. If you do not have any
> gastro problems or stomach problems, that is a good thing to take
> for the heart and also to improve circulation that is slowed by
> excessive blood sugar and damage to blood vessels caused by high BG
> over time. How much exercising are you doing, what are you doing and
> how often?
I take aspirin and treadmill daily.
>
> Eat fruit in small amounts. Low carb, low glycemic index foods and
> moderate protein intake is best. Avoid all oil frying and vegetable
> oils, low sodium diet, fats from nuts and avocados and oily fish.
> Eat salmon or sardines twice a week at least.
I can't eat any fruit without spiking my BG. So, I don't eat any fruit.
I eat a fair amount of protein. Protein actually drives down my BG. I
don't eat any nuts because they contain simple carbs. My diet is pretty
simple. I eat meat, fish, eggs, water, and leafy greens as a salad. That
is what it takes to keep my BG below 140.
>
> Do not trust doctors. Take charge of your own medical care, you will
> be much better off.
I do trust doctors to have a better understanding of medicine that do I.
Most doctors have had some significant schooling. I also research my own
condition and try to work with my doctor for treatment. I am finally
learning to use my doctor for the knowledge he possesses. I think we all
need to accept that others may have a much better understanding of our
physical world. Of course there are a few doctors who are simply
unschooled and ignorant. Some of them have bought their way through
medical school.
Michael
Michael
> x-no-archive: Yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>
>> your bgs numbers as they are?
>
> feeling like blacking out upon standing and very low bp since low
> carbing, not uncommon to the diet change.
>
> I can't imagine that given those changes (and some non doctor's office
> bp readings that show the lows), his doc wouldn't want to lower the beta
> blocker slowly, with weeks between changes. But it has to be done
> carefully, if it's done at all.
>
> Susan
My orthostatic fainting has gotten better since I began anticipating it.
I get up carefully. I check my blood pressure fairly often. It seems a
little low alright. Another item to discuss with my doctor.
I seem to be doing well on my treadmill. I have not had any periods of
distress from this exercise. I used the formula for the pulse I need
from a web site on the internet here.
It is a pretty simple formula. I work up a sweat and feel pretty good
after this exercise.
It does appear that low carbing lowers blood pressure. I wonder why that
is?
I have been feeling pretty good lately. The rum at night sure helps
lower my FBG in the morning. It does not seem to bother my sleep. I
generally sleep really well.
It is blowing and snowing here today. We need to go to the store so we
will get bundled up and get in our little Honda CRV and plow through
some snow to get there. It is a good little car for snow.
Michael
Michelle C.
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>> Susan wrote:
>
>> addressed--which may involve decreasing the amount of beta blocker
>> Michael is taking. However, Michael's pressing concern has been his
>> bg numbers, and I don't think they themselves warrant changing his
>> beta blocker. The bg numbers need to be removed from the equation at
>> this point. That's all I'm trying to say.
>
> discussion, was it? I may've missed it. I know the fact that the drug
> raises his bg has been discussed, and since he's been running very low
> bp, he *may* be able to kill two birds with one stone. But beta
> blockers must be tapered very slowly, if at all, and over a period of
> time, not days or necessarily weeks, even.
>
>
Hi Susan,
Actually, in this particular thread, "Misdiagnosed", Michael's concern
was that the 1000 mg dose of metformin wasn't affecting his bg.
Best regards,
Michelle C.
Peppermint Patootie
Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I was at 1000 mg we no effect. Now I have gone up to 2000 mg. I have
> been on 2000 for about 5 days now. Still no effect.
>
> Methinks that metformin is not helping. I may not even have insulin
> resistance.
>
> Michael
Michael, it takes a while to kick in. It's not an instantaneous thing.
You really need to work on developing some patience.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
> Do not trust doctors. Take charge of your own medical care, you will
> be much better off.
I think this is incredibly dangerous advice to give to someone with
serious cardiac problems!!!!
One's medical care must be a team effort, with both patient and
clinicians contributing to the decision making. This is especially true
if one has diabetes (in which the patient is the lead of the treatment
team) or cardiac problems (in which the cardiologist is vital).
PP, T2
Peppermint Patootie
Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> > So, I can try and wean myself off the beta blocker again. However, I
> > won't do that without my docs approval. I doubt with the BG numbers I am
> > presenting that he will approve. I suspect he will just tell me to
> > continue my rather severe diet to hold down the numbers and that as long
> > as I am below 140, not to worry. My cardiologist told me to eat fruit
> > even if I got spikes as high as 160. I did not take that advice. I don't
> > believe that fruit is necessary for life. I do believe that salads are
> > necessary.
>
> I think the reason to wean that we discussed here was not your bg, it
> was your dangerously low bp. And not to do it without your doctor's
> assistance and involvement.
Precisely!
PP
Peppermint Patootie
Rav1ng rabbit <rab...@dot.com> wrote:
> M�ck�� wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:36:36 +0000 (UTC), che
> > <c...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Do not take your doctors word without a thorough investigation. Use
> >> Medline and other online resources to check and read up on your
> >> symptoms. Many diseases can be diagnosed this way WITHOUT the need
> >> for diagnostic tests and the tests can be used to confirm your
> >> clinical profile. Doctors nowadays don't even take adequate patient
> >> histories and what you get from that is substandard incompetent
> >> treatment. In fact one doctor probably CAUSED my diabetes (no
> >> history in my family) by his drug recommendations. Also don't
> >> believe the bull many post here. Research multiple sources. There is
> >> so much on the web that is good that you can use.
> >
> > the poster Che is an unknown to the group.
No bona fides. No history upon which one can judge whether or not to
take anything they say seriously.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
"Julie Bove" <juli...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michelle C." <michelle_of...@ATyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hh5qdj$ig$1...@news.albasani.net...
> > Susan wrote:
> >> x-no-archive: yes
> >>
> >> Michelle C. wrote:
> >>> Susan wrote:
> >>
> >>> Here are some of the "many" possibilities in regard to the metformin:
> >>>
> >>> 1. A bigger dose of metformin "may" help you.
> >>> 2. You are diabetic, but one of those--like me--for whom insulin
> >>> resistance is not the primary issue.
> >>> 3. Your beta blocker is the cause of your sugar issues.
> >>> 4. You may have an underlying endocrine disorder like Susan does.
> >>
> >> And, I'll add, it's one that 3-10% of type 2 DMS have
> >>
> >>> 5. Some combination thereof.
> >>>
> >>> To jump to the conclusion of pancreatic shut down or cancer (like you
> >>> mentioned in another post) is a huge leap from where you are now. There
> >>> are so many diabetics on ASD who sugar-wise are so much worse off than
> >>> you, and none of them (unless they are Type 1s) have full pancreatic
> >>> shut down or cancer.
> >>>
> >>> Get a grip guy! You are obsessing again.
> >>
> >> Michelle, much better post than mine, you are so correct on all points.
> >>
> >> Susan
> >
> >
> > Thank you, Susan. I'm a bit worried about Michael--and not in regard to
> > his bg. A lot of diabetics would kill to have bg readings like Michael.
> > But his negative imaginings are frightening, and totally out of proportion
> > with the reality. That's worrisome.
>
> Agreed!
Is there room for one more on this bandwagon? ;-)
Priscilla
Peppermint Patootie
Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> If someone here has a good idea how long it takes metformin to hit,
> please let me know. I understand that after two months and nothing
> happens, then the metformin is not working.
The figure of six weeks pops into my head, but that doesn't mean it's
correct. ;-) It's in terms of weeks, though, not days, as far as I
remember. It was over six years ago when I went on it.
> Clearly 1000 mg does zero for me.
No, clearly it does nothing you are currently able to measure. I always
treated lowering of BG as a beneficial side-effect of metformin. I was
taking it for cardiac protection.
> I hope 2000 mg works and that my
> problem is not more serious.
So do I.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
"W. Baker" <wba...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> If you will be upping your dose from 1000to 2,000 take it up only 500mgs
> at a time and wait about 4 days to a week before ging tothe full dose.
> this may help prevent or lessen any gstric issues you may have at the
> higher dose. Even though I was on the extended release version, I had to
> go bck and slowl ramp up after I had been 5 days without metformin during
> hospitalization after an auto accident.
I was told to increase in 250mg increments every two weeks. That would
be six weeks to add in 1000mg/day.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> More serious could be a pancreas that is shutting down production of
> insulin. It could mean pancreatic cancer, or a host of other ills. I
> would rather it be simple insulin resistance, but it may well not be.
Michael, this is pure catastrophizing. You need to get a grip!
> Please note that Freckles reports that 500 mg per day is effective.
NO!!! Not "is." "Can be."
> You
> would think that if my doctor prescribed 1000 mg, he actually expected
> it to have some beneficial effect.
If he's not a diabetologist who is up on recent information, he may not
*know* what the usual therapeutic dose is. He clearly doesn't know that
much about it since he started you at 1000mg rather than ramping you up
on it slowly. Metformin is notorious for GI side-effects, particularly
if one increases dosage too quickly. The fact that he doesn't know that
is a good indicator that he doesn't know much about it at all. He knows
a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Remember that internists and
family practitioners know a little about a lot, but not a lot about
anything.
> So, I am only upping the dose now to
> act as a diagnostic tool to help rule out insulin resistance.
This may not be the tool to do that. You may be one of the people who
don't respond to it but still be insulin resistant. Not all bodies work
exactly the same way.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
M?ck?? <I...@OneWithTheGoddesss.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:14:00 -0600, Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I will restrain my impulse to blurt out a diagnosis. Contrary to a few
> >opinions here, I too think it is a good idea to do as much research as
> >is possible for our untrained minds to digest.
> >
> >I think that putting yourself entirely in the hands of your physician is
> >unwise. I think we must take some responsibility for ourselves. I
> >suspect it is somewhat tempting to treat our physicians as big daddies
> >or mommies but this is not in our best interest.
> >
> >Michael
>
> I don't remember anyone, myself included, saying the above.
Has Kurt weighed in? I've got him killfiled, so I wouldn't have seen it.
PP
Peppermint Patootie
"Michelle C." <michelle_of...@ATyahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm glad to hear that this post
> might have been one of my better ones! ;-)
One gem selected from a coffer overflowing with marvelous sparkling
stones? :-)
PP
Ozlover
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:24:09 -0600, M�ck��
> <I...@OneWithTheGoddesss.org> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:14:00 -0600, Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net>
> >wrote:
>
> >>unwise. I think we must take some responsibility for ourselves. I
> >>suspect it is somewhat tempting to treat our physicians as big daddies
> >>or mommies but this is not in our best interest.
> >>
> >>Michael
> >
> >I don't remember anyone, myself included, saying the above.
>
Doesn't matter, because Kurt also did not say anything like it.
--
Frank Slootweg
Ozlover
> x-no-archive: Yes
>
> Michelle C. wrote:
>
> > What would be wrong with maintaining the beta blocker AND living with
> > your bgs numbers as they are?
>
> Michelle, he reports severe orthostatic intolerance, has episodes of
> feeling like blacking out upon standing and very low bp since low
> carbing, not uncommon to the diet change.
Once more, he has NOT 'reported' "very low bp". Some of you, including
you, ASSUMED that he had very low bp. When I *specifically* asked him
about it, he said:
<news:AbUVm.350709$8m4.1...@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com>
> Thanks,
>
> I have measure my BP when I had orthostatic fainting. It generally runs
> lower than it should. I think my Coreg beta blocker is a little bit
> high in dose.
So it's "lower than it should". Unless HE says so, that does NOT
equate to "very low".
I wonder what's your explanation for 'missing' that fact (which has
been mentioned *multiple* times).
> I can't imagine that given those changes (and some non doctor's office
> bp readings that show the lows), his doc wouldn't want to lower the beta
> blocker slowly, with weeks between changes. But it has to be done
> carefully, if it's done at all.
Probably his doctor listens and measures.
--
Frank Slootweg
Michelle C.
There's always room for one more caring person, Priscilla. :-)
Michelle C.
Michelle C.
LOL! ;-)
Michelle C.
Ozlover
No, anything *but* "Precisely!"! It's NOT "very low bp", NOR
"dangerously low bp", but, as *Michael* just mentioned *again*, "a
little low" BP.
--
Frank Slootweg
Ozlover
Can you (plural) please stop that? Talking - badly to boot - about
people you've killfiled is just not done. Talk about what they actually
wrote, not about what you *think* they *might* have written.
--
Frank Slootweg
Freckles
"Peppermint Patootie" <Peppermin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Peppermint_Patootie-...@news.individual.net...
> In article <x2iZm.431017$sz1.1...@en-nntp-10.dc1.easynews.com>,
> Michael <mic...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> More serious could be a pancreas that is shutting down production of
>> insulin. It could mean pancreatic cancer, or a host of other ills. I
>> would rather it be simple insulin resistance, but it may well not be.
>
> Michael, this is pure catastrophizing. You need to get a grip!
>
>> Please note that Freckles reports that 500 mg per day is effective.
>
> NO!!! Not "is." "Can be."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
WRONG!
I said, in my case the 500mg Metformin pill, DID have a very good and almost
immediate result on my BG.
Freckles
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob
wrote:
>I can't eat any fruit without spiking my BG. So, I don't eat any fruit.
>I eat a fair amount of protein. Protein actually drives down my BG.
So what would a chicken breast and some fruit do?
Michael
>
> If he's not a diabetologist who is up on recent information, he may not
> *know* what the usual therapeutic dose is. He clearly doesn't know that
> much about it since he started you at 1000mg rather than ramping you up
> on it slowly. Metformin is notorious for GI side-effects, particularly
> if one increases dosage too quickly. The fact that he doesn't know that
> is a good indicator that he doesn't know much about it at all. He knows
> a lot, but he doesn't know everything. Remember that internists and
> family practitioners know a little about a lot, but not a lot about
> anything.
>
Metformin did not have any really bad effects on me. At least so far.
When I first started taking it, I could not work up an appetite to eat
anything for about a week, but then I was fine.
Michael
Michael
A chicken breast and 1/3 of a peach would cause an increase of something
in the 20's in my BG.
So, if I started at 100, I could expect a reading an hour later of about
125.
Michael