Re: Thanks to this group, doctors not diagnosing; your opinions differ from doctors
Kurt
If you suspect that you have diabetes then you should go to an
endocrinologist who specializes in diabetes. Diabetes is a complicated
disease and you should consult with someone who is best equipped to be
able to make the correct diagnosis of your problems and evaluate your
needs. "Several group members" cannot diagnose you over the Internet.
If you do have diabetes, diagnosing it and treating it on your own
without professional guidance is just plain foolish and potentially
dangerous.
Kurt
On Dec 14, 11:20�pm, Dave U. Random <anonym...@anonymitaet-im-
inter.net> wrote:
> Thanks to the members of this group for replies to my earlier post on
> insulin resistance.
>
> I don't know whether to question several group members assertions that
> my PN is due to type 2 or to be PO'd at all the doctors for the last 10
> years since I first started complaining about the burning in my feet,
> which has not progressed to pain, coldness, and moved higher into just
> below my calves. Also have had vision decline and disturbances.
>
> According to them everything is hunky dory with AC1 of about 5.8.
> Out of 3-4 internal medicine specialists only one told me my pancreas
> was probably weakening in it's ability to keep up. One told me no way I
> had diabetes. Another looked at my feet and dismissed my claims as my
> feet are not all purple and terrible looking like the diabetics I have seen.
>
> I also have the munchies, and can never seem to satisfy my hunger. The
> only time my PN disappears is after 2 hours of calesthetics. I am
> overweight maybe by 5% if that. I exercise on average 2X a week.
>
> Most of the docs say my blood work is normal except for elevated LDL and
> not that bad.
>
> So the 60K question is what do I do from here? I am upping my exercise
> regime, have been taking bitter melon, ALA 200mg a day divided, multiv.,
> little more C and B complex, 1/2 aspirin, gingko, chromium. These
> supplments help a little,but not that much. Also read somewhere ALA
> causes homocysteine (or was it cortisol) levels to rise, not good.
>
> Have an appt with an endo later this week. What should I tell him?
> Should I ask for a glucose tolerance test or what?
> Other doctors have with that one exception dismissed my symptoms or tell
> me they are idiopathic. Maybe idio is the word for doctors who don't
> know anything? The symptom constellation to me strongly suggests one or
> more of the following: insulin resistance, diabetes type 2 and autonomic
> periperal neuropathy-I am also peeing alot at night and have times when
> my heart seems to take a long time to slow to normal beat and wiped out
> after exercise.
Bob
<anon...@anonymitaet-im-inter.net> wrote:
>Thanks to the members of this group for replies to my earlier post on
>insulin resistance.
>
>I don't know whether to question several group members assertions that
>my PN is due to type 2 or to be PO'd at all the doctors for the last 10
>years since I first started complaining about the burning in my feet,
>which has not progressed to pain, coldness, and moved higher into just
>below my calves.
Peripheral Artery Disease (PAD)?
>Also have had vision decline and disturbances.
Ophthalmologist - This is the doctor that can tell if your eye
problems are from diabetes or maybe even something else.
I would go as far to say an appointment with one should be your top
priority right now.
Chris Malcolm
> Thanks to the members of this group for replies to my earlier post on
> insulin resistance.
> I don't know whether to question several group members assertions that
> my PN is due to type 2 or to be PO'd at all the doctors for the last 10
> years since I first started complaining about the burning in my feet,
> which has not progressed to pain, coldness, and moved higher into just
> below my calves. Also have had vision decline and disturbances.
> According to them everything is hunky dory with AC1 of about 5.8.
When I was diagnosed I had numbness and tingling in my feet, and was
beginning to get it in my hands. People had commented on the habit I'd
developed of wringing my hands, which was an unconscious reaction to
the numbness and tingling in my hands. But my doc kept telling me I
was fine, lovely A1c of 5.6%, and whatever my "random" BG readings
(i.e. whenever I walked into the surgery) were, and my morning fasting
BGs, taken by appointment at the doc's surgery, they were fine
too. "Stop worrying!" he said, "We'll keep an eye on it, but you're
definitely not diabetic yet!"
Then one day just because I'm an insatiably curious gadget geek, I
bought a BG meter when I saw one being offered very cheap in the local
supermarket's pharmacy shelves. It was very soon obvious that I was
suffering horrendous post meal BG rises, way past 200. The kind of
carby coffee shop snack I liked with a coffee would send me past
200. Just a big mocha on its own with no extra sugar would push me up
to 180 (but there's a lot of sugar in the choc syrup they use).
So I made graphs of my BG responses to various standard healthy meals
and snacks and took them to my doc.
"This is amazing!" he said. "I've just come back from a diabetes
conference in which one of the things we were told was how the A1C and
the morning fasting BG could fail to diagnose some type 2
diabetics. Especially if they're active and not overweight. And now
straight after the conference one of them walks into my surgery! Of
course for a formal doiagnosis I'll have to do a glucose tolerance
test of my own, can't accept your own BG tests for a formal diagnosis,
but there's no doubt about what we'll see when I do that!"
> I also have the munchies, and can never seem to satisfy my hunger.
In the several years before my diagnosis I too had developed the
munchies. I'd started having numbers of high carby snacks during the
day. There were coffee shops with all kinds of lovely carby snacks in
the same street as my office, so I often popped out for a coffee with
a big muffin or something. I needed the carby boost to get me out of
the dreary fatigue and brain paralysis that hit me a couple of hours
after every snack. And if I walked the city streets I needed a
fortifying snack about every hour.
> Most of the docs say my blood work is normal except for elevated LDL and
> not that bad.
You need to find a doc who is well educated enough to know that there
are some T2s, especially among the active non-overweight types, who
look ok on the A1c, "random" BG tests, and morning fasting BG
tests. The clue in those cases is the suggestive symptomatology, such
as peripheral neuropathy, munchies, falling asleep after meals, etc.,
and if you're as unlucky as me, a heart attack. The diagnostic test in
these cases is the GTT. Unfortunaately many cash strapped health
services have decided that the GTT is too expensive to use, so won't do
it. All that means is that people like you and me have to go on
getting worse until we get bad enough to pass the cheap diagnostic
tests.
In my case I was already having serious problems at work due to mood
swings and confusion (which I didn't realise were actually due to
blood sugar swings). The problems were serious enough that I'd been
disciplined for them, and if they'd persisted I would likely have lost
my job. (They stopped after diagnosis and getting my BGs under
control.)
> So the 60K question is what do I do from here? I am upping my exercise
> regime, have been taking bitter melon, ALA 200mg a day divided, multiv.,
> little more C and B complex, 1/2 aspirin, gingko, chromium. These
> supplments help a little,but not that much. Also read somewhere ALA
> causes homocysteine (or was it cortisol) levels to rise, not good.
> Have an appt with an endo later this week. What should I tell him?
> Should I ask for a glucose tolerance test or what?
Some docs react very badly to a patient suggesting what they should do
and think. If he doesn't suggest a GTT, and dismisses you asking about
one, I suggest you buy a BG meter, or get a friendly diabetic to lend
you one, and do your own using orange juice or breakfast cereal. Then
of course you mustn't risk alienating the doc by saying you think you
have diabetes. Simply say a local friendly diabetic suggested your
blood sugars might be a bit off and this was what a BG test showed,
and you're puzzled.
> Other doctors have with that one exception dismissed my symptoms or tell
> me they are idiopathic. Maybe idio is the word for doctors who don't
> know anything? The symptom constellation to me strongly suggests one or
> more of the following: insulin resistance, diabetes type 2 and autonomic
> periperal neuropathy-I am also peeing alot at night and have times when
> my heart seems to take a long time to slow to normal beat and wiped out
> after exercise.
And while you're trying to find a well educated doc, just treat
yourself as though you were a diabetic. You've got nothing to lose and
plenty to gain by trying that, because by a remarkable coincidence :-)
the treatment for for the various kinds of pre-diabetes to prevent (or
slow down) you developing diabetes is exactly the same as the
treatment for diabetes to stop it getting worse. And in the first
instance that treatment is simply see if you can get your post
prandial BGs down by diet and exercise. If you've got any excess
weight to lose then losing that will help too.
--
Chris Malcolm
Chris Malcolm
> Dear Mr. Random,
> If you suspect that you have diabetes then you should go to an
> endocrinologist who specializes in diabetes. Diabetes is a complicated
> disease and you should consult with someone who is best equipped to be
> able to make the correct diagnosis of your problems and evaluate your
> needs. "Several group members" cannot diagnose you over the Internet.
> If you do have diabetes, diagnosing it and treating it on your own
> without professional guidance is just plain foolish and potentially
> dangerous.
Since the suggested treatments are taking more exercise and eating a
healthier diet where's the potential danger? And what's foolish about
trying such safe and healthy interventions while trying to find a well
educated specialist? The worst they could do is improve general health
a bit. The best they could do is improve general health, mood, and
mental competence a lot, reduce annoying symptoms, and start putting
the brakes on the progresssive diabetic damage which those symptoms
suggest is already well under way.
That looks to me like a lot of very worthwhile possible benefits, and
no risk.
What do you see as the risk? The fear and anxiety of thinking for
yourself? The risk of annoying a complacent and incompetent doc?
--
Chris Malcolm
Michael
Yes, Chris
There is a lot of very good information that a person can sift through
on this newsgroup. I have learned a lot and improved my BG control. How
much time can we expect from our physician? Not much. Here we learn
about success stories and stories of strategies that simply don't work.
I also find interesting some underlying stuff that tells me about how
people try to handle this disease. We all come with emotional baggage,
and that baggage often is not helpful when we are faced with this disease.
Denial is the first thing that usually happens with this disease. Some
people get past the acceptance of having the disease, but do not get
past the idea that we must change in order to deal. It is oh so easy to
just go to your doctor and say give me pills and shots so I don't have
to change my diet and do exercise. There are all different levels of
denial. I think that almost 100 percent of us here have some level of it
going on.
Your statement above is perfectly logical. However, to those who do not
want to change, it can be a source of anger. Stating the obvious, that a
very low carb diet will most likely improve the health of someone who
has high BG levels often meets with cries of outrage here. We all seem
to be very protective of the lies we tell ourselves.
Michael
noego
news:5e0d838c-eb87-4253...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Dear Mr. Random,
If you suspect that you have diabetes then you should go to an
endocrinologist who specializes in diabetes. Diabetes is a complicated
disease and you should consult with someone who is best equipped to be
able to make the correct diagnosis of your problems and evaluate your
needs. "Several group members" cannot diagnose you over the Internet.
If you do have diabetes, diagnosing it and treating it on your own
without professional guidance is just plain foolish and potentially
dangerous.
Kurt
Going to a professional doctor is sort of like crossing a road when the
pedestrian light says "walk" or is green. You know the light is bright
green, that it was set up by professional traffic authorities, and it cannot
lie, so you can safely step onto the road without looking to see if there
are cars coming and you know that if there are any, they will stop. You can
entrust your life in that light.
Henry.
dumb_fishie99
> "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
You're kidding right? People run red lights all the time. I always
check out
the traffic before starting across a street.
dizzie....@gmail.com
I think that was the point - that unthinkingly following a
"professional" doctor is similar to unthinkingly following a
"professional" traffic light.
--
BettyB. -- www.flamingo-code.com
There is always the potential to change one's direction and go another way
Kurt
And trying to go it alone or based solely on a few alleged know-it-all
strangers on the Internet is similar to a driver trying to beat an
oncoming train across the tracks.
Look, diabetes is a serious disease. Of course you should never follow
a doctor "unthinkingly" (is that even a word). Diabetics should try to
educate themselves as much as possible and there are lots of resources
available to do so. However, you need a professional doctor,
preferably an endo, to mentor you and help sift through the myriad of
opinions that you will find. Knowledge is power, and so is being smart
enough to know you can't go it alone.
Kurt
Michelle C.
Yes, Henry was kidding. It was analogy to putting absolute faith in
doctors. Not saying they don't help, but one must watch out for oneself
as well.
Michelle C.
rwalker
<kurtwhee...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>And trying to go it alone or based solely on a few alleged know-it-all
>strangers on the Internet is similar to a driver trying to beat an
>oncoming train across the tracks.
>
Precisely.
Michael B
change, so all kinds of acknowledgement is made
of that.
Instead of being like the doctor that tells the patient
to stop smoking or find another doctor.
Fats and protein don't seem as gratifying to the carb
junkie, but some are willing to go for it. Others won't,
will express outrage that their way is being questioned.
noego
news:32763861-53a3-4992...@w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
I said it with my tongue firmly in my cheek. My sense of humour sometimes
needs to be understood.
Henry.
noego
news:n9ali5tsqv8qbmgri...@4ax.com...
I am just wondering how many of us fit into this category "And trying to go
it >alone< or based >solely< on a few alleged know-it-all strangers on the
Internet" ?
I do wish all you "know-it-all strangers" a Very Merry Christmas and a Very
Happy New Year!
Cheri
news:4b2b1e4e$0$5424$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I do wish all you "know-it-all strangers" a Very Merry Christmas and a
> Very Happy New Year!
Same to you Henry.
Cheri
bgl
>
> You're kidding right? People run red lights all the time. I always
> check out the traffic before starting across a street.
>
> I said it with my tongue firmly in my cheek. My sense of humour sometimes
> needs to be understood.
>
I read your comment as if there were a "yeah, right" or "NOT" sarcasm
attached.
I always take care looking for cars running red lights, ignoring stop signs,
thinking pedestrians are invisible, etc. which happens all the time around
here. Even if they've stopped I assume they might go anyway, as they usually
don't look both ways themselves. I assume they're all out to run me down to
get their jollies & plan/act accordingly. Plus so many of them are on phones
that they're not paying any attention to anything anyway.
bj
Peppermint Patootie
M�ck�� <I...@OneWithTheGoddesss.org> wrote:
> But it is the Endo's who say that the patient should take
> charge and learn to control their disease on their own.
Not all, but certainly the good ones.
PP, T2
Peppermint Patootie
rwalker <rwa...@despammed.com> wrote:
And thank God that doesn't happen here.
PP, T2
Kurt
inter.net> wrote:
> Not some, most docs have a hard time being related to other than on the
> basis of "you are the GOD" and I am a peon; you're always right". Don't
> know WHERE they get the idea that they are so infallible, because I have
> concluded most of them are quacks, either because they don't know, don't
> care, don't have time or a combination of all 3.
Oh, you'll fit into this newsgroup real well. You've stumbled into a
nest of your kindred spirits. lol
Kurt
Michelle C.
Right back at you Henry!
Michelle C.
Plague Boy
I *knew* you were going to say that.
--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW
bgl
news:peppermint_patootie-...@news.individual.net...
None of my doctors (internists or endos) ever told me that, but none
objected -- all are pleased & one was thrilled -- that I actually did. I
pretty much grabbed the ball from the get-go & got going.
bj
dumb_fishie99
<peppermint_patoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <n9ali5tsqv8qbmgriq7dj04156frnsh...@4ax.com>,
>
> rwalker <rwal...@despammed.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:46:27 -0800 (PST), Kurt
> > <kurtwheeling1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >And trying to go it alone or based solely on a few alleged know-it-all
> > >strangers on the Internet is similar to a driver trying to beat an
> > >oncoming train across the tracks.
Well...thank goodness that some medical doctors want to expand
their market and educate us by writing books!
Also, the internet know-it-alls on this group are a little better than
the
internet know-it-alls I've seen elsewhere. Some groups get to be a
little fluffy, and then the cult-like thinking about somebody's
favorite
supplement gets started, and then the supplement turns out to be
rather bad, and the doctors promoting it actually own the company
that makes it, and then it turns out that the cult followers don't
even
care if the doctors used religious thinking as the basis for
recommending a toxic level of the substance. Pity the poor
diabetics who believed them, and trusted they knew what they
were talking about. These people should restrict themselves to
trading recipes.
You have to always be careful. whether the advice comes from a doctor
or not.
Peppermint Patootie
<9a5ac88d-d952-4b9e...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
dumb_fishie99 <dumb_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 18, 8:53�am, Peppermint Patootie
I wrote nothing of what you posted.
PP
dumb_fishie99
<Peppermint_Patoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article
> <9a5ac88d-d952-4b9e-966e-d1afa0db8...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> I wrote nothing of what you posted.
>
> PP
Oh...it was probably a quoting mistake.
Tiger Lily
diabetes come back normal......... A1c, random fasting, month of
frequent bg testing pre and post prandial, glucose tolerance test
he's not diabetic, but he has some severe neuropathy
kate
Dave U. Random wrote:
> Thanks to the members of this group for replies to my earlier post on
> insulin resistance.
>
> I don't know whether to question several group members assertions that
> my PN is due to type 2 or to be PO'd at all the doctors for the last 10
> years since I first started complaining about the burning in my feet,
> which has not progressed to pain, coldness, and moved higher into just
> below my calves. Also have had vision decline and disturbances.
>
> According to them everything is hunky dory with AC1 of about 5.8.
> Out of 3-4 internal medicine specialists only one told me my pancreas
> was probably weakening in it's ability to keep up. One told me no way I
> had diabetes. Another looked at my feet and dismissed my claims as my
> feet are not all purple and terrible looking like the diabetics I have seen.
>
> I also have the munchies, and can never seem to satisfy my hunger. The
> only time my PN disappears is after 2 hours of calesthetics. I am
> overweight maybe by 5% if that. I exercise on average 2X a week.
>
> Most of the docs say my blood work is normal except for elevated LDL and
> not that bad.
>
> So the 60K question is what do I do from here? I am upping my exercise
> regime, have been taking bitter melon, ALA 200mg a day divided, multiv.,
> little more C and B complex, 1/2 aspirin, gingko, chromium. These
> supplments help a little,but not that much. Also read somewhere ALA
> causes homocysteine (or was it cortisol) levels to rise, not good.
>
> Have an appt with an endo later this week. What should I tell him?
> Should I ask for a glucose tolerance test or what?
> Other doctors have with that one exception dismissed my symptoms or tell
> me they are idiopathic. Maybe idio is the word for doctors who don't
> know anything? The symptom constellation to me strongly suggests one or
> more of the following: insulin resistance, diabetes type 2 and autonomic
> periperal neuropathy-I am also peeing alot at night and have times when
> my heart seems to take a long time to slow to normal beat and wiped out
> after exercise.
>
Wes Groleau
> I know a Doctor who has periferal neuropathy, and ALL of his tests for
> diabetes come back normal......... A1c, random fasting, month of
> frequent bg testing pre and post prandial, glucose tolerance test
> he's not diabetic, but he has some severe neuropathy
The fact that neuropathy has more than one possible cause
does not justify failing to test for the most common cause.
--
Wes Groleau
A UNIX signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent
of a black velvet clown painting. It's a rectangle of carets
surrounding a quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like
Heinlein or Dr. Who.
-- Chris Maeda
Ha, ha, Dr. ..... Who's Chris Maeda?
-- Wes Groleau
Tiger Lily
> Tiger Lily wrote:
>> I know a Doctor who has periferal neuropathy, and ALL of his tests for
>> diabetes come back normal......... A1c, random fasting, month of
>> frequent bg testing pre and post prandial, glucose tolerance test
>> he's not diabetic, but he has some severe neuropathy
>
> The fact that neuropathy has more than one possible cause
> does not justify failing to test for the most common cause.
>
my apologies, Wes, if it sounded like i was saying that he shouldn't
have that (diabetes) tested for in the presence of neuropathy. as i
stated, the Dr was sent for many bg tests as his Dr simply could not
believe his neuropathy wasn't caused by diabetes