Do you use alcohol swabs?
MaryL
alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water? The diabetic
educator nurse who first demonstrated the procedure to me a little more than
a month ago had me clean the area with alcohol (as they do in lab testing),
make sure it was completely dry, then use the lancing device. However, I
have a long history of very dry areas around the fingernails, and I went for
a long time with cracks forming in the pads of my thumbs -- cracks that were
painful and would bleed and which were very difficult to heal. That was
long before I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I eventually found some
lotion that seemed to solve the problem as long as I used it every time I
washed my hands. However, I noticed yesterday that I have now formed
another of those cracks in the thumb. This has me concerned! I went on the
Internet and found a number of references that said that alcohol should
*not* be used because of its drying effect.
So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to cleanse
before fingerpricking? I have an appointment with my doctor for next week
and will raise this question, but I am also interested in the practical
experience of those who have actually been testing themselves (especially
those who have been doing this for a considerable period of time).
Thanks,
MaryL
MaryL
"MaryL" <carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:10h6e5e...@corp.supernews.com...
> I would like to know if people on this group clean their fingers with
> alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water?
>
Follow-up question -- if you use soap and water instead of alcohol to
cleanse before testing, what do you use for "clean-up" of the pierced area?
I have been pressing the alcohol swab against that spot for a short time,
again similar to what I see in labs. Obviously, this means that I am also
increasing the time that alcohol can have a drying effect.
MaryL
Alan
Hi Mary
A simple wash with soap and water - or when I'm out or lazy, I'm
finger-lickin' good (I try to pick a finger that's not been used to weed
the garden or spread manure:-)
I have much better uses for alcohol, apart from the fact that it dries
and cracks my skin.
Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
J. David Anderson
I do use swabs, but many diabetics that I have met do not. I do not have
any type of skin condition that could limit or preclude alcohol use, so
it is not an issue. I use the swabs primarily because last year I got an
infection from an injection. It was a pseudo monas infection, quite
serious, capable of killing, and it took months and a lot of antibiotics
to clear it up. The pseudo monas bacteria exists on almost everyone's
skin and is one of the more serious infections acquired in hospitals
after surgery. It is not a common risk, but a possible one so I swab.
The swabs are only a couple of dollars per hundred so it isn't a
financial impost.
I also shudder when I see people, primarily women, injecting through
their clothes.
Regards
David
Ken Oaf
<carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
> Follow-up question -- if you use soap and water instead of alcohol to
> cleanse before testing, what do you use for "clean-up" of the pierced area?
Nothing. I either squeeze it against another finger or use the good old
saliva. Many a medical person would say this is bad, but I have never picked up
an infection.
Dana©
<carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to cleanse
>before fingerpricking?
Do you have to always use your fingers? I do alternate site testing
such as my forearm or thigh. It is less painful and many more places
to test so there is no concentration on one area. Actually, I haven't
tested on my fingers in years.
Dana
"Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity."
Unknown
Ted Rosenberg
Alcohol swabs are worthless. ABSOLUTELY worthless., so don't bother.
Unless you have unusually dirty skin, don't use ANYTHING. If you do,
use soap and water.
As for "clean up"" afterward, a tissue or paper napkin is best.
The educator probably also told you to change lancets and needles every
time.
If you look back to the recent thread "St Swithin's day", you will see
that most of use change lancets once a year, weather or not it is needed.
As to needles, I get anywhere from two to 10 uses. It used to be until
the needle bent, but now, it is more likely that the graduations become
unreadable.
If you were in a clinic, and more than one person was getting treated,
THEN you would have to change to stop any possible cross-contamination,
but not when you are the only user.
--
"...in addition to being foreign territory the past is, as history, a
hall of mirrors that reflect the needs of souls observing from the present"
Glen Cook
Dana©
<tedros...@iname.com> wrote:
>If you look back to the recent thread "St Swithin's day", you will see
>that most of use change lancets once a year, weather or not it is needed.
Once a year?? Are you serious? Gross. Doesn't get blood caked on it,
dull or rusty??
I don't change mine EVERY time, but I don't use one more that 3 or 4
times. Gee.
MaryL
"Dana©" <Dixie...@aol.com®> wrote in message
news:5st6h0hlo8j4bpdp7...@4ax.com...
The crack that appeared is in the pad of the thumb, so it has apparently
been caused by holding the swab to clean other locations. It is not on the
side, where I test. However, this location on my thumb has been a major
problem in the past, and it has made me reflect on possible future problems
elsewhere.
Thanks,
MaryL
MaryL
"Ted Rosenberg" <tedros...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:41137CDB...@iname.com...
> cc'd by email
>
> Alcohol swabs are worthless. ABSOLUTELY worthless., so don't bother.
> Unless you have unusually dirty skin, don't use ANYTHING. If you do,
> use soap and water.
>
> As for "clean up"" afterward, a tissue or paper napkin is best.
>
> The educator probably also told you to change lancets and needles every
> time.
>
>
No, the educator actually told me that I could use the lancets until they
became dull (which she said I would know because the entry would start to
become more noticeable or painful). I have been changing mine every 3 or 4
days.
Thanks for cc'ing by email.
MaryL
MaryL
"Chris Malcolm" <c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:2nh831...@uni-berlin.de...
> MaryL <carst...@yahoo.comtake-out-the-litter> wrote:
>
> > However, I
> > have a long history of very dry areas around the fingernails, and I went
for
> > a long time with cracks forming in the pads of my thumbs -- cracks that
were
> > painful and would bleed and which were very difficult to heal.
>
> enough fats and oils in my diet. With too littel fats and oils, I'll
> get cracks in edges of feet (heels, bit toes), lips, and ends of
> fingers. With enough, I get none of these, and in addition I heal from
> skin injuries (cuts, burns, bruises) better and faster.
>
> --
> Chris Malcolm c...@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
> IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
> [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
>
That sounds logical, but at the time when I had such problems with dry skin,
I probably had *too much* fat in my diet because I ate far too many
desserts. I have adjusted my diet dramatically since being diagnosed with
diabetes, so I suppose this could become a possibility in the future. I am
using a small amount of olive oil if I stir fry anything, and I have
included some almonds in my diet every day.
MaryL
VBHol
news:6bv6h01i1uahcabcu...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:43:07 -0400, Ted Rosenberg
> <tedros...@iname.com> wrote:
>
> >If you look back to the recent thread "St Swithin's day", you will see
> >that most of use change lancets once a year, weather or not it is needed.
>
> Once a year?? Are you serious? Gross. Doesn't get blood caked on it,
> dull or rusty??
>
> I don't change mine EVERY time, but I don't use one more that 3 or 4
> times. Gee.
>
> Dana
This subject has come up several times over the last year on various
newsgroups. "I change it when it starts to bounce off" is quite common. I
tend to change when I start a new box of 50 strips, although I didn't last
time and it hasn't bothered me.
And that is from someone who doesn't have to pay for lancets....
By the way, if your lancets go rusty, you have a serious problem with your
supplier!
--------------------
VBH
T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03
VBHol
> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 02:52:09 -0500, "MaryL"
> <carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
> >So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to
cleanse
> >before fingerpricking?
>
> Do you have to always use your fingers? I do alternate site testing
> such as my forearm or thigh. It is less painful and many more places
> to test so there is no concentration on one area. Actually, I haven't
> tested on my fingers in years.
>
> Dana
>
Just a quick note that not all meters advocate alternate site testing and
that the numbers you get from alternate sites are likely to be different
from fingertip readings particularly with regard to pp timings. So long as
the site is reasonably consistent there is no problem, but switching between
fingers and arms is likely to give misleading results.
Loretta Eisenberg
I wash my hands.
I dont know much of the difference.
Loretta
--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Andrea
>I would like to know if people on this group clean their fingers with
>alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water?
I was told specifically to stay away from alcohol because it dries out the
skin. Soap and water is fine. If you're someplace where soap and water isn't
convenient, then use those antiseptic hand cleanser things they sell.
--
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace...
where there is hatred, let me sow love.
remove "spamtrap" for e-mail
David
and I check a LOT! :)
they don't rust.
OTOH, if YOU feel the need to change your lancet frequently,
that's YOUR business.
David
David
some other similarly "dirty" job I don't clean my fingers
before checking my bg. I used to work on cars for a living
and would poke my fingers right through the grease. In 26
years of 15+ tests per day, I've yet to have a problem.
YMMV if you are prone to infections. I'm not.
David
David
be avoided.
David
Mäck©®
<carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>I would like to know if people on this group clean their fingers with
>alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water?
Soap and water is best for this, both in getting the site clean and in
preventing dry skin and cracking.
The diabetic
>educator nurse who first demonstrated the procedure to me a little more than
>a month ago had me clean the area with alcohol (as they do in lab testing),
>make sure it was completely dry, then use the lancing device.
They are required to. However the alcohol doesn't clean the site as
well as soap and water. Ever wonder why surgeons don't just dip their
hands in alcohol and let them dry? Because they would not be sterile.
And after some time they would become dry and cracked and painful.
However, I
>have a long history of very dry areas around the fingernails, and I went for
>a long time with cracks forming in the pads of my thumbs -- cracks that were
>painful and would bleed and which were very difficult to heal. That was
>long before I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I eventually found some
>lotion that seemed to solve the problem as long as I used it every time I
>washed my hands. However, I noticed yesterday that I have now formed
>another of those cracks in the thumb. This has me concerned! I went on the
>Internet and found a number of references that said that alcohol should
>*not* be used because of its drying effect.
Those sources are correct.
Even with soap and water a good hand cream will do wonders to prevent
cracking and even calluses. I personally prefer the lotions with tea
tree oil in them. But others find just as good results with other
products.
>
>So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to cleanse
>before fingerpricking? I have an appointment with my doctor for next week
>and will raise this question, but I am also interested in the practical
>experience of those who have actually been testing themselves (especially
>those who have been doing this for a considerable period of time).
>
>Thanks,
>MaryL
>
You see time is the factor that was long over looked in regards to
alcohol actually drying out the skin and causing cracks. Those of us
who have been testing for years learned the hard way and it took the
medical profession even longer to catch up as far back as they have so
far.
Māck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt
Have you heard of the NO-CARB Diet for 2004?
NO C-heney
NO A-shcroft
NO R-umsfeld or Rice
NO B-ush
Mäck©®
<carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
anything really, a clean tissue, a clean paper towel, a clean napkin,
cotton ball, your bare finger. If you adjust the lancing device all
you need do is wipe the excess away. No need to press to stop further
bleeding, unless you are a bleeder.
Mäck©®
wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:43:07 -0400, Ted Rosenberg
><tedros...@iname.com> wrote:
>
>>If you look back to the recent thread "St Swithin's day", you will see
>>that most of use change lancets once a year, weather or not it is needed.
>
>Once a year?? Are you serious? Gross. Doesn't get blood caked on it,
>dull or rusty??
nope.
>
>I don't change mine EVERY time, but I don't use one more that 3 or 4
>times. Gee.
I change mine every 3 or 4 months. Testing nearly 10 times a day,
every day tends to dull them.
>
>Dana
Mâck©®
Mäck©®
>Unless I've been digging in the yard or have been engaged in
>some other similarly "dirty" job I don't clean my fingers
>before checking my bg. I used to work on cars for a living
>and would poke my fingers right through the grease. In 26
>years of 15+ tests per day, I've yet to have a problem.
>YMMV if you are prone to infections. I'm not.
>
>David
I personally would not trust the accuracy of tests like that. Many
things can cause a false reading.
Māck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt
Have you heard of the NO-CARB Diet for 2004?
NO C-heney
NO A-shcroft
NO R-umsfeld or Rice
NO B-ush
>
Eldritch
>
>
> So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to cleanse
> before fingerpricking? I have an appointment with my doctor for next week
> and will raise this question, but I am also interested in the practical
> experience of those who have actually been testing themselves (especially
> those who have been doing this for a considerable period of time).
I've been doing this nearly 11 years now, and reading posts from other
diabetics for at least 8 years. And I started off like a good boy,
swiping every test with a fresh alcohol swab and sharp new lancet. But
doing either is close to worthless.
As for lancets, change them when you feel like it. These days I don't
change unless it hurts a few times in a row. I have a box of 100
lancets that I bought so many years ago that I can't remember any more;
and I still have most of the box left. Lancets work for a very long time.
There's little or no reason to worry about infection from testing,
unless you've just handled filthy things. We have bacteria on our skin
at all times. For the most part, we are immune to the ones which are
commonly on us. Getting it again makes no difference. If the lancet
picks up something from our skin, then it's ours, and most likely we're
already immune to it. And for the stuff already in our blood ....
well, we've already got that. So changing doesn't protect us from
infection.
This situation obviously changes dramatically if you test someone else.
Others don't want your germs infecting them, and you sure don't want
their germs infecting you. Always change immediately before and after
testing someone else. Don't leave a used lancet in the lancing gizmo if
it's been stuck in someone else. It's too easy to forget.
As for alcohol swabs. No reason to use them. The main rationale to
use them is to "kill" germs, or wipe them away. We've all seen
thermometers soaking in alcohol, but most of us don't realize that
alcohol is a "sanitizer" not a "sterilizer." That means it doesn't kill
germs very quickly. It takes about 20 minutes of soaking before
alcohol will kill germs. That's why your doctor's office uses
disposable thermometers these days. Disposable really protects you
from germs. Any alcohol you apply to your fingers before a test will
not soak there for the 20 minutes necessary to kill any germs.
So if it takes so long to kill germs, why do nurses always swipe us
with it before a injection? Aren't they killing germs? Well, no,
they're not. Talk to any knowledgeable nurse who's had a few beers in
her, and she'll admit that swiping is mostly for show. Patients expect
it and would be angry if nurses didn't do it. So they do.
It does have some value to clean the injecting site, simply from the
mechanical action of wiping and pushing the germs away. But think
about it. If you touch a patient's arm with a fresh alcohol swab, that
swab is now contaminated. If you take a second swipe, you've just
contaminated the area you just cleaned. But nurses commonly take two
or three swipes before an injection. Can it be done with just one
swab? Yes. They teach nurses to touch the skin and then, in one
continuous movement, move the swab in an outward-expanding spiral from
the center. Remember this won't kill germs. That would take 20
minutes of submerging your skin. All the nurse is doing is pushing
those germs out of the way. And a swab soaked in alcohol is a
convenient way to do that. But how many nurses have make careful
outward expanding spirals on you before an injection?
If you really want to clean an area on your skin of germs, the best way
is soap and water. It has two actions. The wetting effect of the soap
actually screws up the cell walls of the bacteria. That kills them.
And, as we all know, soap and water is great for picking up dirt and
carrying it away. So it kills germs and then removes them from you
skin. But for nurses, an alcohol swab is more convenient than a pail
of soapy water and a sponge.
The other problem is the one we started with. Alcohol dries out the
skin. Even in people who don't already have problems with dry skin, it
will dry the skin over time and encourage cracks to develop. These
cracks become invitations for bacterial infections, which is the danger
we're really worried about. Being diabetic, we don't fight off
infection as well. So alcohol betrays us twice. It doesn't really
kill germs as advertised and then it encourages cracks which can collect
germs, giving us the infections we're trying to avoid.
Bottom line. Don't change lancets until you just feel like it. Some
of us probably do go a year between changes, but that's probably
extreme. Don't use alcohol swabs. If you want to clean your hands
before testing, use hot soapy water.
What do I do? I change lancets ... whenever. I just test. I don't
use alcohol swabs. I don't even wash with soapy water unless I'm dirty
or my hands are cold so I expect to have trouble getting a blood sample.
Afterwards, I generally use a Kleenex (or napkin or whatever) to
press against my finger until it stop bleeding. Usually a few seconds.
How many infections have I had? Eleven years ago, I remember having
some really minor redness around a test site sometimes, which lasted
less than a day. Maybe I was becoming immune to things already on my
skin. That quickly stopped, and there have been no problems of any
kind since. Eleven years.
Worse, I've been reading diabetes mailing lists and newsgroup for most
of that time, and don't recall reading a post from anyone who reported
having problems.
Only once in 11 years, did I come across anything on the subject. It
was a magazine article about 3 women in Italy who'd had fingers
amputated due to finger infections. That stirred up a storm of
discussions in these groups. I can tell you that. But follow up
articles said these 3 women had extremely poor control. We can only
speculate about their living conditions and cleanliness . . . or whether
they were told to use alcohol swabs. There's been nothing else in the
news in any way about finger infections. If you have to go as far as
Italy to find an example, then it's not a common problem.
E
pinecone
> alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water?
Earlier some of the posters stated they don't even use a new lancet
each time, so practices obviously vary widely. I mostly wash with
soap and warm water and use a clean lancet, and then just rinse the
area and hold a tissue to it. But sometimes I use alcohol wipes if
I'm traveling and can't wash. Alcohol does dry my skin, so I avoid it
most of the time.
I also use hand cream a lot since my skin is so dry.
--pc
MaryL
"MaryL" <carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:10h6e5e...@corp.supernews.com...
> alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water?
>
>
Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate the feedback. I was concerned about
the drying effect of rubbing alcohol and also about possible infection.
From what I have learned from the people on this group, it sounds like
infection is not likely (but dry skin is). I already have a history of
difficult-to-heal cracks on my thumbs, so that is doubly important to me now
that I know I have diabetes. Incidentally, I tried all sorts of lotions,
preparations, doctors' advice, etc. and the only product that I finally
found that solved my cracked was a product from Lancome (Nutrix) -- not one
of the many prescriptions I tried. It was very expensive but well worth it
because it was the only thing that worked. Unfortunately, they have now
stopped producing it, so I may be back to my original problem!! I'm going
to talk to a compounding pharmacist to see if there is any way to duplicate
the curative effect that lotion had.
I did call the diabetic educator today, and she said that if I only used
soap and water I should wipe away the first drop of blood and then test on
the second drop. This is to avoid any soap or oils on the skin that might
affect the reading (not killing germs, as some of you pointed out).
However, no one has mentioned that on this thread, and I know some of you
have years of experience. I do have cats, but I know enough to wash my
hands before lancing because of possible contamination from that source.
You have all made me feel much better about giving up on the alcohol swabs
in most circumstances. I do oil painting, so I may continue to use the
swabs if I test right after a painting session.
Thanks,
MaryL
Mäck©®
because if you are using clean hand towels, as we assume, there is no
need to wipe away the first drop and try to get another. You rinse
thoroughly and dry completely, no problems.
I do have cats, but I know enough to wash my
>hands before lancing because of possible contamination from that source.
>You have all made me feel much better about giving up on the alcohol swabs
>in most circumstances. I do oil painting, so I may continue to use the
>swabs if I test right after a painting session.
>
>Thanks,
>MaryL
>
Ted Rosenberg
8-10 months
--
Dana©
>By the way, if your lancets go rusty, you have a serious problem with your
>supplier!
I have no idea if they would rust. I change mine every 3 or 4 uses. I
don't have to pay for mine either. But it seems that as uncomfortable
as sticking your finger is...why would you want to use a dull lancet?
JMO.
Dana©
Eisenberg) wrote:
>If I am out and not close to a sink, I will use the swab, but generally
>I wash my hands.
I wonder if that sanitizing gel stuff that you buy in the pump bottles
would work ok? I mean instead of alcohol? It sanitizes and dries
quickly. Anyone every used it?
Colleen
c
"DanaŠ" <Dixie...@aol.comŽ> wrote in message
news:ugk7h012bh2hnq919...@4ax.com...
Colleen
"MaryL" <carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
A little OT here. What style of painting do you do? I work with acrylic on
canvas. I don't handle the solvents well and I have no patience to wait for
it to dry between layers. I have my pix at
www.plazaearth.com/philo . I just had the site updated so all my new stuff
is on it. Got any pix of your stuff? I'd love to see it.
c
>
Ted Rosenberg
difference. The chances of getting an infection from your own lancet or
needle is almost ill. AND, the chances of getting an infection after
"sanitizing" with alcohol or alcohol products is exactly the same as
without. SCRUB, with a brush, anti bacterial soap, and water does make
a slight difference.
Your main worry is contaminants on the skin affecting the readings, most
of which can be removed by simply wiping the area with a tissue.
Obvious contaminants, like paint, or grease, or syrup, need to be
removed they way you would normally remove them, mainly soap and water.
As for getting dull, it takes LOTS of usage to get a lancet dull.
Also, be warned, Lancets and needles are Teflon coated, alcohol damages
the coating, making them not work as well.
DanaŠ wrote:
--
acoftil
<carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> etched permanently into the ether:
>The crack that appeared is in the pad of the thumb, so it has apparently
>been caused by holding the swab to clean other locations. It is not on the
>side, where I test. However, this location on my thumb has been a major
>problem in the past, and it has made me reflect on possible future problems
>elsewhere.
>
>Thanks,
>MaryL
That kind of cracking is a fairly common problem. I have problems with swimmers
ear and I use alcohol to dry them out--this cracks my thumbs, because the
alcohol goes everywhere.
My solution is to use bag balm with gloves to sleep in. Then lots of good hand
cream during the day. Depending on how deep the cracks are, it takes about a
week to make your hands as smooth as the Palmolive commercials claim. ;)
Then you can use it as needed. This also works on feet. This is what my
podiatrist recommended.
HTH,
Nancy
pre-diabetic (2/2004)
starting to get some control
Fasting bg 119
A!C 5.5
Cholesteral sucks
to email me, remove the Z
MaryL
"acoftil" <gnn4...@surewest.net> wrote in message
news:i1r7h098512a69pq5...@4ax.com...
Yes, I have also used bag balm. It is my "second best" product (next to
Lancome Nutrix, which I described in another post -- and which,
unfortunately, is no longer available). Ironically, these two products work
much better than prescriptions I was given.
MaryL
MaryL
"Colleen" <col...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ni2grF...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
>
> A little OT here. What style of painting do you do? I work with acrylic
on
> canvas. I don't handle the solvents well and I have no patience to wait
for
> it to dry between layers. I have my pix at
> www.plazaearth.com/philo . I just had the site updated so all my new
stuff
> is on it. Got any pix of your stuff? I'd love to see it.
> c
>
> >
I love your work! I just set up some "albums" in PictureTrail, and I am
going to include one for my paintings. I'll post the link to you after I
add them (in a few days). Be forewarned...mine are not as creative as
yours. I work on oil on canvas, and my paintings are pretty traditional --
landscapes, florals, fruit and veggie setups, etc. I started to take
painting lessons 3 years ago, and it has been very satisfying to me. I
started painting "in preparation" for retirement, which will be in a couple
of years, but soon that I love it "right now."
MaryL
J. David Anderson
> In most cases your skin doesn't have anything on it which makes any
> difference. The chances of getting an infection from your own lancet or
> needle is almost ill. AND, the chances of getting an infection after
> "sanitizing" with alcohol or alcohol products is exactly the same as
> without.
What a totally idiotic comment.
David
Tiger Lily
finger for over 1 minute in the alcohol....... do the google research
why do you feel that Ted has spoken inappropriately here?
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
"J. David Anderson" <jdavida...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:z1TQc.89$VJ....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
J. David Anderson
> MaryL wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to
>> cleanse
>> before fingerpricking? I have an appointment with my doctor for next
>> week
>> and will raise this question, but I am also interested in the practical
>> experience of those who have actually been testing themselves (especially
>> those who have been doing this for a considerable period of time).
>
>
>
>
> I've been doing this nearly 11 years now, and reading posts from
> other diabetics for at least 8 years. And I started off like a good
> boy, swiping every test with a fresh alcohol swab and sharp new
> lancet. But doing either is close to worthless.
Based on what?
>
> As for lancets, change them when you feel like it. These days I
> don't change unless it hurts a few times in a row. I have a box of 100
> lancets that I bought so many years ago that I can't remember any more;
> and I still have most of the box left. Lancets work for a very long
> time.
>
>
> There's little or no reason to worry about infection from testing,
> unless you've just handled filthy things. We have bacteria on our skin
> at all times. For the most part, we are immune to the ones which are
> commonly on us.
Not when introduced subcutaneously.
Getting it again makes no difference. If the lancet
> picks up something from our skin, then it's ours, and most likely we're
> already immune to it. And for the stuff already in our blood ....
> well, we've already got that. So changing doesn't protect us from
> infection.
>
>
> This situation obviously changes dramatically if you test someone
> else. Others don't want your germs infecting them, and you sure don't
> want their germs infecting you. Always change immediately before and
> after testing someone else. Don't leave a used lancet in the lancing
> gizmo if it's been stuck in someone else. It's too easy to forget.
>
>
> As for alcohol swabs. No reason to use them. The main rationale
> to use them is to "kill" germs, or wipe them away. We've all seen
> thermometers soaking in alcohol, but most of us don't realize that
> alcohol is a "sanitizer" not a "sterilizer."
Crap. Alcohol sterilises. Where you are becoming confused is that
*some* bacteria requires longer exposure than others. This does not
have any bearing on the ability of alcohol to kill a great deal of the
common bacteria on contact.
That means it doesn't kill
> germs very quickly. It takes about 20 minutes of soaking before
> alcohol will kill germs. That's why your doctor's office uses
> disposable thermometers these days. Disposable really protects you
> from germs. Any alcohol you apply to your fingers before a test will
> not soak there for the 20 minutes necessary to kill any germs.
>
>
> So if it takes so long to kill germs, why do nurses always swipe us
> with it before a injection? Aren't they killing germs? Well, no,
> they're not. Talk to any knowledgeable nurse who's had a few beers in
> her, and she'll admit that swiping is mostly for show.
Why the hell would you believe anything a drunken nurse had to say?
Nurses are not research scientists, they are are as lacking in knowledge
as any layperson when it comes to the science behind much of their training.
Patients expect
> it and would be angry if nurses didn't do it. So they do.
You really haven't a clue. Nurses only use swabs to pacify patients?
That is ridiculous. This is one very good example illustrating why it
can be dangerous to take note of medical opinions given in newsgroup.
Ronnie Ruff's earlier post on the dangers of misinformative posts being
dangerous is fully supported by this idiocy.
The fact that you haven't had a serious infection so far does not mean
that you won't one day do yourself some real damage.
Last year I had a very serious infection due to a cortisone injection
that was given without prior sterilisation. The lab tests identified the
strain of Pseudomonas as being from my own skin. The site of the
infection was the site of the injection, no other possible method of
entry. It took several months to cure. Google up Pseudomonas and see
just how serious it can be. Up to a 50% death rate.
http://textbookofbacteriology.net/pseudomonas.html
.........
Quote:
Pseudomonas aeruginosa is the epitome of an opportunistic pathogen of
humans. The bacterium almost never infects uncompromised tissues, yet
there is hardly any tissue that it cannot infect if the tissue defenses
are compromised in some manner.
Quote:
Pseudomonas aeruginosa is notorious for its resistance to antibiotics
and is, therefore, a particularly dangerous and dreaded pathogen. The
bacterium is naturally resistant to many antibiotics due to the
permeabiliity barrier afforded by its outer membrane LPS. Also, its
tendency to colonize surfaces in a biofilm form makes the cells
impervious to therapeutic concentrations antibiotics. Since its natural
habitat is the soil, living in association with the bacilli,
actinomycetes and molds, it has developed resistance to a variety of
their naturally-occuring antibiotics. Moreover, Pseudomonas maintains
antibiotic resistance plasmids, both R-factors and RTFs, and it is able
to transfer these genes my means of the bacterial processes of
transduction and conjugation.
Only a few antibiotics are effective against Pseudomonas, including
fluoroquinolones, gentamicin and imipenem, and even these antibiotics
are not effective against all strains. The futility of treating
Pseudomonas infections with antibiotics is most dramatically illustrated
in cystic fibrosis patients, virtually all of whom eventually become
infected with a strain that is so resistant that it cannot be treated.
..........
Get some clues and don't post irresponsible rubbish like this.
While it is quite true that only a small percentage of people contract
Pseudomonas, it is still one of the most common and most deadly hospital
acquired infections, acquired by introducing skin bacteria to the
bloodstream. The only way to prevent it is to use rigorous sterilisation
practices of both the skin and any implements/instruments that break the
skin.
David
Colleen
great stress reducer and a way to express the inner person.
Which with my art work, must mean I'm some weird lady! My poem came from
that feeling. It's a very healthy way to express yourself. Much better for
the mind than TV.
I'll look forward to seeing your things.
c
"MaryL" <carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:10h7uga...@corp.supernews.com...
Alan
>On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:46:49 -0400, Dana© <Dixie...@aol.com®>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:43:07 -0400, Ted Rosenberg
>><tedros...@iname.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If you look back to the recent thread "St Swithin's day", you will see
>>>that most of use change lancets once a year, weather or not it is needed.
>>
>>Once a year?? Are you serious? Gross. Doesn't get blood caked on it,
>>dull or rusty??
>
>nope.
>
>>
>>I don't change mine EVERY time, but I don't use one more that 3 or 4
>>times. Gee.
>
>I change mine every 3 or 4 months. Testing nearly 10 times a day,
>every day tends to dull them.
>
>>
>>Dana
>
>
>
>Mâck©®
>Type 1 since 1975
Hi Mack
Nice one :-)
Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
J. David Anderson
> for effective bacterial control using alcohol you would have to soak your
> finger for over 1 minute in the alcohol....... do the google research
>
> why do you feel that Ted has spoken inappropriately here?
>
Because you *DO NOT* have to soak your fingers for over one minute.
There is a difference between killing all bacteria and killing most
bacteria. Killing most bacteria is far more effective than killing no
bacteria.
Regards
David
Alan
wrote:
Hi All
This is, to me, the best post I've seen on the subject. I hope you store
it for future repetition, E.
YMMV applies, but I do the same as Eldritch, and I also have
hypogammaglobulinemia (a compromised immune system). I got sore fingers
in the early days, but then realised I wasn't keeping track of which
fingers I was constantly repeating on. I stopped testing for two days
and kept track of where I tested after that.
I've only been following Jennifer's advice for two years. We worked out
on a different thread that I've tested well over 3000 times since then.
I'd guess that I've used 20 or 30 lancets. I don't swab with alcohol (I
use the swabs to clean the meter:-), I wash when I can and lick when I
can't. I only test on my fingers - both sides, not thumbs.
And I've never had an infection on my fingers since diagnosis.
Do what you feel works for you, and check with your docs if you are
unsure.
Ted Rosenberg
things clearer
J. David Anderson wrote:
--
Ted Rosenberg
You notice that twits like this depend on anecdotes and "of course"
instead of doing any actual study on the subject.
J. David Anderson wrote:
--
David
distilled from it some "truth". When nearly everyone gives
the same response to a question, chances are better than
even that their collective response is "correct".
There is no need to wait for a second drop of blood. What
IS an issue is if in your haste to wash up and test, you
don't get your finger absolutely DRY when you prick it. A
small amount of moisture can lower the bg test result. I
can tell when I've squeezed a drop from a damp fingertip:
the drop spreads out instead of "hanging" there (fingertip
facing UP). In that case, I them grab a tissue, wipe it
dry, and gently squeeze out a second drop.
I have no experience with lotions affecting the test
results. Perhaps someone will chime in on that.
David
David
David
David
about infections being more person dependent than procedure
dependent. Some people are prone to infections while others
are not.
David
MäckŠŽ wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 07:29:55 -0700, David <da...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Unless I've been digging in the yard or have been engaged in
>>some other similarly "dirty" job I don't clean my fingers
>>before checking my bg. I used to work on cars for a living
>>and would poke my fingers right through the grease. In 26
>>years of 15+ tests per day, I've yet to have a problem.
>>YMMV if you are prone to infections. I'm not.
>>
>>David
>
>
> I personally would not trust the accuracy of tests like that. Many
> things can cause a false reading.
>
> MâckŠŽ
> Type 1 since 1975
> http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
> http://www.diabetic-talk.org
> http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
>
> In tribute to the United States of America and the State
> of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
> terrorism.
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
> President, or that we are to stand by the President
> right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
> but is morally treasonable to the American public."
>
> ...Theodore Roosevelt
>
> Have you heard of the NO-CARB Diet for 2004?
>
> NO C-heney
> NO A-shcroft
> NO R-umsfeld or Rice
> NO B-ush
>
>>MaryL wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I would like to know if people on this group clean their fingers with
>>>alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water? The diabetic
>>>educator nurse who first demonstrated the procedure to me a little more than
>>>a month ago had me clean the area with alcohol (as they do in lab testing),
>>>make sure it was completely dry, then use the lancing device. However, I
>>>have a long history of very dry areas around the fingernails, and I went for
>>>a long time with cracks forming in the pads of my thumbs -- cracks that were
>>>painful and would bleed and which were very difficult to heal. That was
>>>long before I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I eventually found some
>>>lotion that seemed to solve the problem as long as I used it every time I
>>>washed my hands. However, I noticed yesterday that I have now formed
>>>another of those cracks in the thumb. This has me concerned! I went on the
>>>Internet and found a number of references that said that alcohol should
>>>*not* be used because of its drying effect.
>>>
>>>So, is there any concensus among this group as to the proper way to cleanse
>>>before fingerpricking? I have an appointment with my doctor for next week
>>>and will raise this question, but I am also interested in the practical
>>>experience of those who have actually been testing themselves (especially
>>>those who have been doing this for a considerable period of time).
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>MaryL
>>>
>>>
>
>
J. David Anderson
>
> You notice that twits like this depend on anecdotes and "of course"
> instead of doing any actual study on the subject.
It is much more than an anecdote Ted, I was involved from the pointy end
and as a result had access to most research data from a major hospital
as they had to both accept responsibility for my condition and treat me.
As I spent five months with a dangerous and debilitating disease caused
by an unsanitary injection, the first couple with an antibiotic drip
hanging out of my arm. I had more than sufficient interest, motivation,
time, and ability to do the research, and as I am a pushy and determined
person, I was given access to all data before deciding whether to accept
their various treatment protocols.
Ted, why don't *you* do some research, it is very obvious that you
haven't. Check back on some of the news articles about some major
American hospitals and the extraordinary high death rate from people
with pseudomonas infections and see how they acquired it. Particularly
do some research on some of the infant deaths in nurserys.
Wait a moment, I forgot, you contend that all Doctors, nurses and
theater staff are wasting their time using alcohol preps before
injecting, so you wouldn't want to prove yourself wrong; would you?
Hell, what do I care, you continue the way you are, maybe you will get
to learn the hard way about non-sterile injecting/skin piercing.
Hey, I know, why don't you pop down to your local hospital and let them
all know just how much time they are wasting with all this unnecessary
messing about with antisepis and hygiene. I am sure they will show you
the appropriate appreciation for your advice. Maybe they will sue their
med schools and share the profits with you?
David
J. David Anderson
> Thanx, when a flaming idiot fuckwit like you attacks me, it just makes
> things clearer
My, such command of language! You must completely underwhelm just about
everyone who comes in contact with you. Have you found that to be the
case Ted?
Did things become clearer before or after you wiped your spittle from
the screen?
David
lee cooper
They are great as a lens cleaner for my glasses...
"Ted Rosenberg" <tedros...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:41137CDB...@iname.com...
> cc'd by email
>
> Alcohol swabs are worthless. ABSOLUTELY worthless., so don't bother.
> Unless you have unusually dirty skin, don't use ANYTHING. If you do,
> use soap and water.
>
> As for "clean up"" afterward, a tissue or paper napkin is best.
>
> The educator probably also told you to change lancets and needles every
> time.
>
> If you look back to the recent thread "St Swithin's day", you will see
> that most of use change lancets once a year, weather or not it is needed.
>
> the needle bent, but now, it is more likely that the graduations become
> unreadable.
>
> If you were in a clinic, and more than one person was getting treated,
> THEN you would have to change to stop any possible cross-contamination,
> but not when you are the only user.
>
> MaryL wrote:
> > "MaryL" <carst...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> > news:10h6e5e...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>alcohol before testing, or do you simply use soap and water?
> >>
> >
> >
> > cleanse before testing, what do you use for "clean-up" of the pierced
area?
> > I have been pressing the alcohol swab against that spot for a short
time,
> > again similar to what I see in labs. Obviously, this means that I am
also
> > increasing the time that alcohol can have a drying effect.
> >
> > MaryL
jacquie
would be smart to knock down my fat intake to between 5 and 10% of my food
intake. I started loosing hair...I looked like a Chemo patient. My sister a
nurse at a local hospital talked to some Dr's about it...they asked if I had
cut down drastically on my fat intake and she said yes...they said for me to
get back on 25% and later drop to 20%. I also had an adrenal gland problem
that caused thinning of hair...so once I upped my fat intake and had my
adrenal gland removed I now have hair...not as thick as it used to be but
much thicker than it was. I also had very cracked heels and fingers. I am on
20% fat intake now.
Eldritch
> I would not go so far as yo call them worthless.......
> They are great as a lens cleaner for my glasses...
I, as well, alcohol swabs useful. They're great for cleaning ink from
certain kinds of ball-point pens.
E
Colleen
off of canvas like a charm!
c
"Eldritch" <Tiredo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2nncfsF...@uni-berlin.de...