I am trying to muddle my way out
Marna
Hi my name is Marna. I am fat, out of shape, depressed and trying to muddle
my way out of this dark hole I am in.
I hope to find some strength here, or talk to others that are like me, or
close to it.
Marna
Ken MacGray
In article <691u14$mgb$1...@news1.teleport.com>, "Marna" <ba...@teleport.com>
wrote:
Hi, Marna...
My name is Ken and I too am woefully out of shape and consider myself to
be fat. My depression revolves around an extreme fear of ridicule, so I
know somewhat how you must feel. I'm more of a lurker than a participant,
but I'm hoping that this group will offer some support...
Take care,
Ken
-------------
VVCS - Website Design & Development
in...@vvcs.com - www.vvcs.com
Member - Wachusett Chamber of Commerce
Remove the obvious from my email address to reply...
jyen...@pacbell.net
In article <691u14$mgb$1...@news1.teleport.com>,
"Marna" <ba...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
> Hi my name is Marna. I am fat, out of shape, depressed and trying to muddle
> my way out of this dark hole I am in.
>
> I hope to find some strength here, or talk to others that are like me, or
> close to it.
>
Me too. So now what do we do?
John
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Robert W. Cunningham
Ken MacGray wrote:
>
> In article <691u14$mgb$1...@news1.teleport.com>, "Marna" <ba...@teleport.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi my name is Marna. I am fat, out of shape, depressed and trying
> > to muddle my way out of this dark hole I am in.
> >
> > I hope to find some strength here, or talk to others that are like
> > me, or close to it.
>
>
> My name is Ken and I too am woefully out of shape and consider myself
> to be fat. My depression revolves around an extreme fear of ridicule,
> so I know somewhat how you must feel. I'm more of a lurker than a
> participant, but I'm hoping that this group will offer some support...
>
> Take care,
>
> Ken
Marna & Ken: ENOUGH with the "fat" talk! Positive self image is one of the
most important components of a heathy personality, which is surely an
important tool to have to eventually manage depression.
"Fat" is a relative term, and is not an absolute. Its definition changes with
time, often quite radically, as a look at Reubens or similar great artists
will show. It is unfortunate our western society presently implies many
unrelated negative connotations with the mere value of a scale or shape of a
body.
Such terms highlight differences, and do nothing to indicate any such
difference has anything to do with quality. There are many other such
pejorative categorizations, and they are based on a wide variety of similarly
unrealted characteristics: Skin color, ethnicity, gender, religion, national
origin, political affiliation, handedness, hair length or baldness, speech
patterns, disabilities and handicaps. And that's just in America.
Internationally, I'm sure there are many other additions to the list.
Many of these items have diminished in today's society, some have grown, and
others have even become "politically incorrect". But that's in society. What
matters is what's in you. Do you "buy into" these categorizations? Do you
believe they are true of ANYONE, and especially of you? If so, then I would
recommend you worry about changing your belief, and your self image, before
changing your weight.
Unless, that is, a physician has diagnosed you with an unhealthful condition,
and has prescribed treatment for it. But even if this is the case, I will
ABSOLUTELY guarantee the physician did NOT use the phrase "you are fat" to
announce the diagnosis!
A recent study published in a prominent medical journal clearly indicates
that, if no other medical problems are present (an important "if"), then
WEIGHT HAS NO NEGATIVE AFFECT ON LIFE SPAN! Medical conditions must be
treated. But if you have no specific existing medical problems that can be
solved by losing weight, then, please, give your self a break!
We all have similar sets of organs. They all vary in size, shape and color.
The skin is another of the body's organs (the largest by far). It too varies
in size, shape and color. So what.
It is too bad that our society contains assholes who think such differences in
skin "matter". To hell with them. Just make sure one of these assholes does
not live inside YOUR skin!
Next Episode: "Shape, Schmape!"
- Bob Cunningham
Cheryl Ann Ennis
Hello Marna & Ken,
I think the whole thing about being fat, is what others think i.e.-
you see pictures of slim people in magazines, and on television,
therefore you think something is wrong with being 'fat'. Look at it
like this...the people you see on tv and magazines starve themselves
to look like that, you are ok. you dont have to conform to be ok...do
you understand what i am saying? being fat is NOT a problem, just the
way you look at it . You are a *person*.
and anyway, what is in your heart is more important.
Cheryl
in case you are interested, yes, i am overwieght! but i am dealing
with it in a positive light! (i hope)
Ken MacGray
In article <34B546EA...@acm.org>, "Robert W. Cunningham"
<rcun...@acm.org> wrote:
> Marna & Ken: ENOUGH with the "fat" talk! Positive self image is one of the
> most important components of a heathy personality, which is surely an
> important tool to have to eventually manage depression.
Easy to say, not so easy to believe.
Ken MacGray
In article <199801082...@zetnet.co.uk>, Cheryl Ann Ennis
<cheryl...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I think the whole thing about being fat, is what others think i.e.-
> you see pictures of slim people in magazines, and on television,
> therefore you think something is wrong with being 'fat'. Look at it
> like this...the people you see on tv and magazines starve themselves
> to look like that, you are ok.
I eat like a bird and I still consider myself to be fat and hideous.
Chris Lubrecht
Ken MacGray wrote:
> In article <34B546EA...@acm.org>, "Robert W. Cunningham"
> <rcun...@acm.org> wrote:
>
> > Marna & Ken: ENOUGH with the "fat" talk! Positive self image is one of the
> > most important components of a heathy personality, which is surely an
> > important tool to have to eventually manage depression.
>
> Easy to say, not so easy to believe.
>
>
You can believe if you want to. Our recovery comes from within...belief is 80% of
our recovery.
Chris
Chris Lubrecht
>
> but i won't be holding my breath "believing" that will happen.
> that way, if it doesn't happen, i won't be too terribly surprised
> or disappointed..if it *does*..i think it will be because i finally
> found the right chemical or treatment for *me*..not because
> i "believed" it would work.
>
> sorry for whining...i know that's not what this group is for.
>
> Lyndee <<---tired of all this crap and ready to throw in the towel
AD's don;t work if you think that is all there is to it. Most doctors
prescribe therapy with the AD for a reason. There is a certain amount of
mental energy you have to spend in order for anything to work. It
sucks..I had my days too...I spend days in bed....I stood on the edges
of bridges, held a gun to my head..blah blah..I am not talking out my
ass. I was on amatriptilyn(sp) for 6 months..I hated the feeling. I
switched to St Johns wort...it helped. The thing that helped the most
was when I helped myself.
You can crack on positive thinking all you like, you can say that
'believing' won't help you...but to be honest..if you think the drugs
will do it alone..you lie to yourself.
It is a tough road, but only you can walk it...if you chose to sit on
the side and wait for someone to come and give you lift, you will wait a
long time.
Chris
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Lyn...@aol.com
> or anon-...@anon.twwells.com
> X-No-Archive: yes is in the headers
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert W. Cunningham
Ken MacGray wrote:
>
> In article <34B546EA...@acm.org>, "Robert W. Cunningham"
> <rcun...@acm.org> wrote:
>
> > Marna & Ken: ENOUGH with the "fat" talk! Positive self image is
> > one of the most important components of a heathy personality, which
> > is surely an important tool to have to eventually manage depression.
>
> Easy to say, not so easy to believe.
Is ANY part of depression "easy"? The difficulty associated with changing
beliefs can make losing weight look easy. But the benefits attained are often
longer lasting and less traumatic than the best diet cycle ever invented.
And I'm not saying anything about losing weight, pro or con. It's just that
it makes no sense to beat one's self up about weight. I feel we must start
from when, where and who we are, and be completely accepting, even loving, of
that person, place and time. The reading on a bathroom scale, or the size of
clothing, may well affect how others think of us. But it should not affect how
we think of ourselves.
Yup, it is easy to say, isn't it? Tough to do. Took me over a decade to
resolve my major self-image problems, and that was before I lost my fear of
therapy and therapists. It will be MUCH easier and faster with help.
-BobC
Robert W. Cunningham
Joyce Owen
I'm taking the middle. Positive thinking won't cure depression, but
negative thinking makes it worse.
Joyce
or...@worldnet.att.net wrote in article
<69addd$5...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
> On Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:19:06 -0500, Chris Lubrecht <chr...@nac.net>
> wrote:
> >You can believe if you want to. Our recovery comes from within...belief
is 80% of
> >our recovery.
> >
> >Chris
> And in your mind belief comes just that easy does it??
>
> orcan
>
Dazzy Deb
Lyn...@aol.com (Lyndee) wrote:
[little snip]
>and then Chris responded:
>>AD's don;t work if you think that is all there is to it. Most doctors
>>prescribe therapy with the AD for a reason. There is a certain amount of
>>mental energy you have to spend in order for anything to work. It
>>sucks..I had my days too...I spend days in bed....I stood on the edges
>>of bridges, held a gun to my head..blah blah..I am not talking out my
>>ass. I was on amatriptilyn(sp) for 6 months..I hated the feeling. I
>>switched to St Johns wort...it helped. The thing that helped the most
>>was when I helped myself.
>Well, I'm glad this worked for you Chris. I'd be very interested in
>knowing just *how* you helped yourself. What exactly did you
>do that turned it all around for you? I really am interested if
>you'd care to respond.
I somehow managed to lose most of this thread, so I really
shouldn't be putting my two cents in here, but I'm going to do it
anyway.
>>You can crack on positive thinking all you like, you can say that
>>'believing' won't help you...but to be honest..if you think the drugs
>>will do it alone..you lie to yourself.
>I honestly don't think I'm lying to myself. I *know* what it feels
>like when the drugs are working. I *know* what it feels like
>to go weeks and weeks without suicidal thinking. I *know*
>what it feels like to wake up in the mornings and be glad about
>that rather than waking up wishing I hadn't.
I'm going to try to word this, Lyndee, in a way that can maybe help
you. Please, understand that I'm not getting on your case here, ok?
At any rate, this might sound elementary, but sometimes it takes for
me to just sit and repeat a positive thought to myself over and over
and over and over again just like a first grader. It takes constant
vigilance on my part to watch myself and recognize when negative
thinking creeps into my thoughts. Oh, and trust me, negative thinking
is never far away. However, I don't want it, so I have to guard
against it.
>The AD's *have* worked for me..but like I said..only for short
>periods of time. And for the past few months, they haven't
>helped at all.
>I'm of the belief that *my* depression is largely biochemical.
>I don't think there's any way in the world that positive thinking
>will cure me.
Look at your above sentence, Lyndee. "I don't think there's any way
in the world that positive thinking will cure me." I DON'T THINK....
ponder on that for a while. Look where it's going. Ok, I'll go along
with you. Just positive thinking may not cure you, but positive
thinking will go a long way in helping everything else that you do for
youself to work.
[little snip]
>The point I was trying to make is that after almost
>a dozen different AD's that either never worked at all, or quit
>working after a short period of time, it's hard for me to believe
>that I'm ever going find something that does work.
Granted, I can see your point here, but the trick is to keep on
keeping on. Oh, I can empathize with the feeling that nothing will
ever work. I've been on several ADs myself, and I'm sure that
eventually the one I'm on will begin to lose its effectiveness
somewhere down the line, but I refuse to give up, even when I'm
hollering the loudest that "I QUIT".
[little snip]
>I was hoping to find support and encouragement here...and would
>love to be able to offer the same to others. See what happens
>when I hope for something?
Look at your last sentence, Lyndee. It seems as though you have
yourself programmed to believe that when you hope for something that
it's just not gonna happen for you. Maybe that 's some of what Chris
was talking about.
You know, sometimes we have been in one script or program so long
that we don't even realize what we're doing. It has taken me years of
work to get out of that negative rut, and I still have to watch myself
carefully for signs of negativity.
Come on over here and sit with me, Lyndee. You CAN find your way
out. I know you can. I'll support you and encourage you every step of
the way. I know the going is rough. I know sometimes it seems as if
there is no way out. But, this disease is
managable.{{{{{{{{{{{{Lyndee}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Dazzy Deb
Heaven Doesn't Want Me, and Hell Is Afraid I'll Take Over
Joyce Owen
Dazzy Deb <deb...@pipeline.com> wrote in article
<69h4os$o...@camel18.mindspring.com>...
> Lyn...@aol.com (Lyndee) wrote:
> At any rate, this might sound elementary, but sometimes it takes for
> me to just sit and repeat a positive thought to myself over and over
> and over and over again just like a first grader. It takes constant
> vigilance on my part to watch myself and recognize when negative
> thinking creeps into my thoughts. Oh, and trust me, negative thinking
> is never far away. However, I don't want it, so I have to guard
> against it.
Here's my 2 cents worth. Yes Yes Yes Yes. It's like a battlefield in my
mind.
The drugs I take do help, but I still have to do the thought battle.
{big, big snip}
> >I was hoping to find support and encouragement here...and would
> >love to be able to offer the same to others. See what happens
> >when I hope for something?
Sometimes you find friends! Hi Lyndee! It's good to met you. Joyce
Dick Small
On Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:33:44 -0600, jyen...@pacbell.net wrote:
>In article <691u14$mgb$1...@news1.teleport.com>,
> "Marna" <ba...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi my name is Marna. I am fat, out of shape, depressed and trying to muddle
>> my way out of this dark hole I am in.
>>
>> I hope to find some strength here, or talk to others that are like me, or
>> close to it.
>>
>> Marna
>
>Me too. So now what do we do?
Avoid mirrors for a start. ;)
Yeesh, I caught sight of myself nekkid in a full length mirror the
other night, first time for some while.
I thought "Who is that old fat guy?" :(
I always used to be slim, bordering on skinny, for some reason which
may well be connected to the physiological side of the depression I
have to work extremely hard to get and stay fit, and I can lose my
fitness almost overnight. Always have.
Last depression I was also physically ill with digestive problems
(gallstones as it turned out) and during this period I lost weight,
went down to about 135 lbs (if I've converted to Merkin correctly!)
However I recovered remarkably quickly after the operation, my
depression lifted and most of my physical symptoms had gone, I felt
better than ever for a long time.
While I was married and being fed with my Ex's excellent cooking (as
well as my own!) and also having less exercise, I began putting on
weight and passed my previous almost constant weight, settling at a
level where I had just a cuddly amount of middle age spread.
The first antidepressant I went on this time round was Paxil, which is
pretty notorious for weight gain (though there's a theory which says
that the drugs will tend to produce either weight gain or loss,
depending which you least want) and I quickly built up another 30 lbs.
Since switching to Effexor I have finally lost a little. But the
problem is it's come off from different places than it went on. I
still have a massive belly but my arms and legs have gotten thinner.
:(
Weight disorders *can* be a symptom of the depression. They can also
be affected by the antidepressants. I used to have nibble-fests on the
Paxil, carbos, mainly savoury, bread, biscuits and cheese, chips, etc.
On the Effexor I do this much less but have regained more of a sweet
tooth. There's an element of self-medication for the precursors of
serotonin. There's evidence that the drugs, and probably the
depression also, affect areas of the hypothalamus which deals with
eating behaviour. And who has the energy to do enough exercise?
Although some people do, I can't recall the tricyclics I used
previously producing weight gain, or sapping my energy in the same way
as Paxil. Although I'm generally happy with the FXR and *for me* it
does work pretty much like a tricyclic without the side effects, I
still have to generate far more "effort" for enough of it to seep
through my nervous system and down to my limbs in order to move.
Perhaps it's just age catching up, burning out in middle age seems to
be characteristic of the side of my family from which the depression
is inherited.
Maybe I could earn some money as a Jerry Garcia lookalike!
--
Dick Small gree...@netcomuk.co.uk
---
The brain in pain goes mainly down the drain
Lyndee1
>
>Either I'm turning into a fence-sitting liberal, or I can (once again)
>agree with both sides of this!
<gasp!> say it ain't so! ;-)
<huge snip>
>Just curious, and I may have said this before (I can't remember) but
>have you had your thyroid checked? Not just a standard blood level
>test, but one which tests the thyroid's response.
yes..and yes. that was the very first thing the pdoc
checked. T3, T4, TSH, and FTI (i think).
all within normal limits, though edging toward hypo-
thyroid. i had blood tests for this 4 years ago, and
again last july.
>
>I'd heard of this before, a certain proportion of depressos who are
>"treatment resistant" have a borderline thyroid deficiency which
>doesn't show in the normal blood test but does in the more
>sophisticated one, in which case addition of thyroxine may suddenly
>kick-start the antidepressant into action.
is there another test that is different from the ones i
mentioned above?
>
>An aunt of mine was recently heading into depression, she's from the
>non-depressed side of the family. In practice she turned out to have a
>growth on her thyroid and having had it removed she's holding her own
>now on a low dose of a tricyclic, her thyroid returned to normal
>operating specification without needing a supplement. There can be a
>physiological link where depression affects the thyroid and vice versa
>quite apart from more major problems such as this.
glad to hear she's doing well.
>
>>>It is a tough road, but only you can walk it...if you chose to sit on
>>>the side and wait for someone to come and give you lift, you will wait a
>>>long time.
>>
>>I *never* asked anyone to walk the road for me. I don't expect
>>*anyone* to do *anything* for me. I don't even ask for help when I
>>desperately need it.
<snip again>
>
>This is the reverse of the chicken-and-eggness of depression. My
>experience is that "thinking yourself out of depression" is complete
>bollocks. But you *do* have to put a certain amount of work in,
>unsticking your brain (and body) from the patterns it's gotten used
>to, once the meds take effect.
>
yes...when the meds are working the way they are
supposed to, i really don't seem to have much of a
problem with the negative thinking. it's only now
that i'm on the 8th or so med, that i'm getting a bit, um..
discouraged with this whole process.
>My analogy is that when you're in the pit, the antidepressants build a
>haul road out. But you still have to learn to drive the tipper. . .
>either you take lessons (therapy) or you learn from more experienced
>drivers (here?).
>
>Stick your thumb out, try and hitch a ride! <grin>
cool! what kind of car do you drive?????
Lyndee <<< hoping it's not a convertible because
she's already having a bad hair day
>
>--
>Dick Small di...@greensand.demon.co.uk
>---
Dick Small
On 15 Jan 1998 23:15:38 GMT, lyn...@aol.com (Lyndee1) wrote:
>>Just curious, and I may have said this before (I can't remember) but
>>have you had your thyroid checked? Not just a standard blood level
>>test, but one which tests the thyroid's response.
>
>yes..and yes. that was the very first thing the pdoc
>checked. T3, T4, TSH, and FTI (i think).
>
>all within normal limits, though edging toward hypo-
>thyroid. i had blood tests for this 4 years ago, and
>again last july.
>is there another test that is different from the ones i
>mentioned above?
I think the one I meant was the TSH. Sounds like your pdoc's on the
ball there, but that "edging toward hypothyroid" may be significant,
it might be worth discussing this further, especially if he mentions
ECT again. I'm thinking about limits in engineering, it's possible for
two parts to be within allowed tolerances but still not fit, if one's
at the top limit and the other's at the bottom and the limits are set
too wide.
>>This is the reverse of the chicken-and-eggness of depression. My
>>experience is that "thinking yourself out of depression" is complete
>>bollocks. But you *do* have to put a certain amount of work in,
>>unsticking your brain (and body) from the patterns it's gotten used
>>to, once the meds take effect.
>>
>yes...when the meds are working the way they are
>supposed to, i really don't seem to have much of a
>problem with the negative thinking. it's only now
>that i'm on the 8th or so med, that i'm getting a bit, um..
>discouraged with this whole process.
Quite! Did you try tricyclics or MAOIs? Sometimes they work on people
the more modern drugs don't, sometimes they have fewer side effects
too. Otherwise it sounds depressingly as if there's something else
going on, if not thyroid maybe some interraction with a different
system altogether. There are those damn endorphins, and more recently
the discovery of cannabinoid receptors and the internal chemical which
operates them, anandamide, I'm not sure what it's function is.
Meantime try to hold a memory of how it feels when the negative
thinking is reduced and concentrate not on reducing it but on ignoring
it. There! - cut price cognitive therapy! <grin>
>>My analogy is that when you're in the pit, the antidepressants build a
>>haul road out. But you still have to learn to drive the tipper. . .
>>either you take lessons (therapy) or you learn from more experienced
>>drivers (here?).
>>
>>Stick your thumb out, try and hitch a ride! <grin>
>
>cool! what kind of car do you drive?????
CAR??? It's a 30 tonne 8-legger! Unfortunately they took my nice shiny
new one away and left me with this old heap, it's a bugger to drive,
takes so long to upshift you end up downshifting again twice. . .
--
Dick Small di...@greensand.demon.co.uk
---
If I'd wanted another Tory Government I'd have voted for one