FDA forced to re-evaluate SSRI antidepressants.
jake
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0,1413,206~24495~1857753,00.html
In 1988 an ophthalmologist contacted us because his daughter had
unexpectedly committed suicide while taking Prozac. He was convinced
that this antidepressant had somehow triggered her sudden violent act.
We could find nothing in the medical literature to support his
suspicion, and so we dismissed his report as the desperate
rationalization of a grieving parent. We assumed that a depressed
young woman might take her life, even on an antidepressant.
Some months later an article appeared in the American Journal of
Psychiatry suggesting the link might be real. Harvard psychiatrists
reported that six patients had developed a preoccupation with suicide
within a few weeks of starting Prozac.
We later learned that the ophthalmologist's daughter had not been
depressed. Her doctor had prescribed Prozac off-label for an eating
disorder. Why she hanged herself remains a mystery.
For years the Food and Drug Administration has debated whether Prozac
and related antidepressants could trigger suicide or other violent
acts. For the most part, the agency has dismissed such concerns as
rare or unrelated to the medications.
Labeling for Prozac states, "The possibility of a suicide attempt is
inherent in major depressive disorder and may persist until
significant remission occurs.''
Despite such reassurance, British regulators have just taken the
unusual step of warning doctors against prescribing many
antidepressants for people under 18 years old. The authorities there
concluded that antidepressants such as Celexa, Effexor, Lexapro, Paxil
and Zoloft could trigger agitation, suicidal thoughts and self-injury.
Prozac has not been included in this advisory.
The restriction of so many popular drugs for teenagers and children
has taken many American psychiatrists by surprise. The debate in
England about the benefit-risk balance is likely to trigger a similar
controversy in the United States.
The FDA is now being forced to re-evaluate its position on the use of
such SSRI antidepressants. And some physicians are beginning to ask
whether some adults might also be at risk while taking such
medications.
Readers of this column have shared compelling stories with us. One
reported: "A 50-year-old old friend of mine asked his doctor for
something to put him in better spirits over the Christmas holidays,
since he had just broken up with his girlfriend. He started Zoloft and
awoke in the middle of the night with a strong urge to kill himself.
He overcame the urge and never took another Zoloft. Had he actually
killed himself, it would have been written off as due to depression,
though he and I are convinced it was the pills.''
While millions of people have benefited from such drugs, some cannot
tolerate the side effects. Whether such antidepressants actually
trigger suicidal thoughts in adults has not yet been determined. But
British regulators clearly believe they pose a problem for children.
__
"When society turns a blind eye to the dangers of drugs and rushes to embrace a
pharmaceutical cure for nearly every condition, there is almost no end to the
harm that may result".
Thomas.J.Moore
Steve
are there any studies done, that you know of, on the dangers of bipolars
taking SSRI's without any corresponding mood stabilizers like Depakote or
lithium? It seems to me that many bipolars are mistakenly put on AD's alone.
Granted, not the whole story but definitely a contributing factor.
--
Steve
"jake" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:kr32vvokq6kue44r2...@4ax.com...
jake
wrote:
>jake,
>
>are there any studies done, that you know of, on the dangers of bipolars
>taking SSRI's without any corresponding mood stabilizers like Depakote or
>lithium?
Indeed..you are perfectly correct..
SSRIs are well known to trigger mania..so much so that(irresponsibly
IMO) some psychiatrists use this fact to diagnose bipolar disorder..
In this study at least mood stabilizers did not ameliorate the effect
1: J Clin Psychiatry. 2001 Apr;62(4):249-55. Related Articles, Links
Antidepressant-induced mania in bipolar patients: identification of
risk factors.
Henry C, Sorbara F, Lacoste J, Gindre C, Leboyer M.
Service Universitaire de Psychiatrie, Centre Hospitalier
Charles-Perrens, France. chanta...@bordeaux.inserm.fr
BACKGROUND: Concerns about possible risks of switching to mania
associated with antidepressants continue to interfere with the
establishment of an optimal treatment paradigm for bipolar depression.
METHOD: The response of 44 patients meeting DSM-IV criteria for
bipolar disorder to naturalistic treatment was assessed for at least 6
weeks using the Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale and the
Bech-Rafaelson Mania Rating Scale.
Patients who experienced a manic or hypomanic switch were compared
with those who did not on several variables including age, sex,
diagnosis (DSM-IV bipolar I vs. bipolar II), number of previous manic
episodes, type of antidepressant therapy used (electroconvulsive
therapy vs. antidepressant drugs and, more particularly, selective
serotonin reuptake inhibitors [SSRIs]), use and type of mood
stabilizers (lithium vs. anticonvulsants), and temperament of the
patient, assessed during a normothymic period using the hyperthymia
component of the Semi-structured Affective Temperament Interview.
RESULTS: Switches to hypomania or mania occurred in 27% of all
patients (N = 12) (and in 24% of the subgroup of patients treated with
SSRIs [8/33]); 16% (N = 7) experienced manic episodes, and 11% (N = 5)
experienced hypomanic episodes. Sex, age, diagnosis (bipolar I vs.
bipolar II), and additional treatment did not affect the risk of
switching.
The incidence of mood switches seemed not to differ between patients
receiving an anticonvulsant and those receiving no mood stabilizer
My husband, was initially on 50 mg. Zoloft for a mild depression and
concentration problems at work. It "worked" for a while, then did not.
The family clinic GP upped the dosage to 100 mg, then the benefits
"wore off" again. Nine months after the initial prescription, the
doctor again upped the dosage. It was now 150 mg. of Zoloft per day.
My husband was becoming increasingly irritable, and hostile, with a
hair-trigger temper. He eventually erupted into domestic violence,
battered me, and I had to call 911 for help.
I had heard about some of the violence associated with Prozac and I
immediately suspected a connection with Zoloft. So he went off the
Zoloft right away but had dream-like sequences impinging upon his
waking state. This made it even more difficult to concentrate at work,
in addition to all of our marriage problems resulting from the
battery. It was scary to him. Finally, he saw a psychiatrist at a
University here in California who seemed not overly concerned about
this "side-effect," but suggested he taper off.
He had to go back on to the Zoloft and withdraw slowly in order to
mitigate this troubling (and now I realize it is a very dangerous!)
withdrawal symptom. It never entirely disappeared for many months.
Every time he stepped his dose down, the REM dream spill-over problem
in waking-state intensified. These problems lasted about 6 months. One
time he revealed that he almost got into a car accident, that would
have been his fault, because he made a left turn when it was not safe.
The dream "blinkies," which is what he called them, occurred
especially strongly when he moved his eyes around, such as when he was
driving. This relates to what is known about the eye-darting in REM
sleep, and the effect of EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization Therapy).
When the "blinkies" were still there even after he went entirely off
the medicine, I cajoled him into having an EEG to check for epilepsy.
The test was negative. But he said that during the test he had no
"blinkies" because he was sitting or laying with closed eyes. However,
as soon as he got up and left the office, and darted his eyes around
in the parking lot, the problem resumed. He was defensive about
possibly having epilepsy, so he did go back in and have them redo the
test. In fact he was pleased that he "passed" the test, thereby
proving to himself that "nothing was really wrong." After reading your
book I now realize that he had a very serious condition called REM
Behavior Disorder, which is when REM sleep spills over into activity.
I note that with a severe REM deprivation there is a 85% chance of
resulting violence. I believe that this is what happened with my
husband. The SSRI drug severely inhibited his REM sleep at night, and
when he went off the medication, the REM compensation dangerously
spilled over into waking state.
We were living apart for about 9 months. During this time my husband
was hostile, and often spoke with manic intensity. He had very
distorted perceptions, and wrote letters accusing me of having "only
hate in your heart," and of having done all manner of harm to him. One
time I received one of the most distorted and acrimonious letters on
the day that he moved back home and was sleeping and having sex with
me!
During this manic time he charged about $30,000.00 on several credit
cards. His spending was on so many things that the money just went
through his fingers like water. He also found an out-of-town
girlfriend, and she became quite enamored of him, convinced that they
were "soul-mates destined to be together from the beginning of time."
She believed that I was an evil force in my husband's life. Quite a
bit of money was spent on this out-of-town relationship, as well as
about $10,000 on an attorney and an accountant to prepare taxes for
"married filing separately" and papers for a divorce. The taxes later
had to be redone to include me, and he never filed the divorce papers.
Basically, he "crashed and burned" after all his hypomania. Six months
after he ceased the Zoloft he was ill for weeks with a cold, looked
terrible, and could barely get to work. Then he decided to come home.
At times he had almost a catatonic depression, although he also
alternated depression with anger explosions, although no more
violence. It was a difficult first six months, and couple's therapy
was not helpful. As a result of other individual therapies, he did
learn about appropriate and inappropriate expression of one's anger.
This made it easier to live with him, but he still struggled to keep
his emotions in check. Finally he saw a psychiatrist who tried lithium
for bipolar disorder.
Almost immediately the blow-ups and hyper-irritability ended. It took
longer for the depressions to abate. He did go on and off the
medication for short periods, apparently to convince himself he still
needed it. During the "off" periods his irritability noticeably
increased, and happiness decreased. He would soon resume the
medication.
In 20/20 hindsight there is no question that the Zoloft induced
hypomania, and that a dozen or more therapists all missed the signs
and symptoms. No one took notice that the hypomania developed along
with the increasing doses of Zoloft, and continued even after
withdrawal. In persons with a bipolar tendency, anti-depressants are
known to trigger mania, yet no therapist made this connection until a
year and a half after the first symptoms of mania began to appear.
In addition, he developed other problems associated with
anti-depressant usage. According to a five hour lab test, he now has
"Impaired Glucose Tolerance," a pre-diabetic condition. In my
unofficial diagnosis, based upon your book, he had signs and symptoms
of Cushing Syndrome (sugar metabolism disturbance, high triglycerides,
"pregnant" appearance, thick fat at the neck).
>It seems to me that many bipolars are mistakenly put on AD's alone.
>Granted, not the whole story but definitely a contributing factor.
I tend to agree..In the support groups I moderate it happens time and
time again..
The killer fact though..is that the suppressed studies showed SSRIs
induce agitation and mania in NORMAL volunteers..
Squiggles
Steve wrote:
> jake,
>
> are there any studies done, that you know of, on the dangers of bipolars
> taking SSRI's without any corresponding mood stabilizers like Depakote or
> lithium? It seems to me that many bipolars are mistakenly put on AD's alone.
> Granted, not the whole story but definitely a contributing factor.
>
The Prozac controversy continues it seems... I noticed an
article on Prozac (not anti) on sci.med.psychobiology by
Dr. Larry Brash; i also read a critique on a yahoo group
"critical Psychiatry" [i think] where a powerful argument
is made against the case... i have it stashed away somewhere,
based on the methodology of administration of Prozac as a
salient factor. The author is the respected Dr. Frederic
Goodwin.
Personally, i recall being administered imipramine way before
being given lithium by a team of doctors headed by my dr.
I did almost kill myself but not from suicidal ideation, but
rather from being so dizzy in front of the metro tracks i
almost fell in. These drugs are given casually. It made me
too sick to wonder if i was depressed. Lithium on the other
hand was a truly efficacious drug stopping suicidal desperation
and wondering whether i should go to the Emergency or the
traffic.
The circumstances of psychiatric administration are criticized
by Dr. Goodwin, pointing out that there is not enough monitoring
in these critical stages and i agree with him wholeheartedly and
personal experience.
Squiggles
Nom dePlume
bipolar disorder, so at least some of these folks are aware of the
problems.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
"Squiggles" <squi...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FF18257...@sympatico.ca...
Squiggles
Nom dePlume wrote:
> My psychiatrist has mentioned that "normal" antidepressants exacerbate
> bipolar disorder, so at least some of these folks are aware of the
> problems.
>
That;s good to know - i truly hope it is true and
a medical marker for bipolar disorder; it would
make Lithium a magic bullet contrary to Dr. Healy's
hope that there are such drugs in psychiatry.
Squiggles
Squiggles
sorry about the last clause; correction: "contrary to Dr. Healy's
belief that there are NOT such drugs in psychiatry; btw, is it
possible that lithium is just such a drug that would work on
a variety of psychiatric disorders?
Squiggles
jake
wrote:
>
>
>Squiggles wrote:
>>
>>
>> Nom dePlume wrote:
>>
>>> My psychiatrist has mentioned that "normal" antidepressants exacerbate
>>> bipolar disorder, so at least some of these folks are aware of the
>>> problems.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That;s good to know - i truly hope it is true and
>> a medical marker for bipolar disorder; it would
>> make Lithium a magic bullet contrary to Dr. Healy's
>> hope that there are such drugs in psychiatry.
>>
>> Squiggles
>>
>
>sorry about the last clause; correction: "contrary to Dr. Healy's
>belief that there are NOT such drugs in psychiatry;
It is not a belief but a fact..
now acknowledged by the drug companies themselves..
that most of their drugs do not work for the majority of people they
are prescribed for..
there are no magic bullets..
it was hype..
> btw, is it
>possible that lithium is just such a drug that would work on
>a variety of psychiatric disorders?
no
are you seriously suggesting that Lithium is a specific cure for
mania and other disturbances rather than a nonspecific brain-disabling
agent?
Squiggles
>>>Squiggles
>>>
>>
>>sorry about the last clause; correction: "contrary to Dr. Healy's
>>belief that there are NOT such drugs in psychiatry;
>
>
> It is not a belief but a fact..
> now acknowledged by the drug companies themselves..
> that most of their drugs do not work for the majority of people they
> are prescribed for..
>
> there are no magic bullets..
>
> it was hype..
>
>
>>btw, is it
>>possible that lithium is just such a drug that would work on
>>a variety of psychiatric disorders?
>
>
> no
>
> are you seriously suggesting that Lithium is a specific cure for
> mania and other disturbances rather than a nonspecific brain-disabling
> agent?
>
>
Yes, this is what this string suggests - that lithium responders
are bipolar - if that is true then we have a criterion for
manic depression; much like if a vaccine or antibiotic works
for X and only X then the patient can be said to have that
disorder. Lithium may cover a number of biologically related
disorders (e.g. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Huntington's, manic
depression, etc.) - the trick is to see the similarity and WHY
this drug would work on these disorders.
Tests in this area in psychiatry would be fruitful - perhaps
more so than MRIs and behavioural tests.
Squiggles
jake
wrote:
Here is the latest "magic bullet" for manic depression
in the light of the suprising consensus...
to incite mania and damp it down with an anti-pychotic..sounds a
recipe for disaster to me..
New Drug Treats Bipolar Disorder
Combats bouts of severe depression
http://drkoop.com/template.asp?page=newsdetail&ap=93&id=516739
TUESDAY, Dec. 30 (HealthDayNews) -- The U.S. Food and Drug
Administration has approved the Eli Lilly medication Symbyax to treat
depression associated with bipolar disorder, sometimes referred to as
manic depression.
The new drug is a combination of active ingredients found in two other
drugs used to treat mental health problems -- the anti-depressant
Prozac and the anti-psychotic Zyprexa, the company says.
Bipolar disorder is characterized by debilitating mood swings between
deep depression and episodes of abnormal manic euphoria. People with
the disorder typically spend more than three times longer in the
depressive phase, in which an average of one in four patients attempts
suicide at least once, the company says.
People with diabetic conditions and elderly patients with dementia
should be carefully monitored while taking Symbyax, Eli Lilly says.
Common side effects include drowsiness, weight gain, feeling weak,
swelling, tremor, sore throat and difficulty concentrating.
-----
The arrogant, grandiosity gods of the Mental Health System,
blessed with omnipotent power and use of deadly force by the
state, grasp human victims in capricious hands and play with
their brains.
jake
wrote:
to knowingly dispense drugs that you suspect will incite mania
akethesia and suicidal ideation to people you suspect are in the
category this happens to?
ethically it seems on a par with throwing women
into a lake...
and if they drown they were not a witch
but if they survive they are.
Steve
what do make of assertion that remission rates are, in fact, lowered with a
combination of medication and CBT. Do you imagine that it is the CBT working
by itself...if so, you need to get published as you are putting a great
deals of psychiatrist's to shame. :) Let's suppose the risk is this: The
brain is extremely complicated. Our understanding of it is rudimentary. (I
think we all agree with that.) So, when we attempt to "medicate" it we run
the risk of causing bigger potentially unseen problems that may manifest
themselves in people later, or sooner, in the case of children and suicide.
So, do we wait until we have a "more" complete picture of the brain's
workings? We may be waiting a while. Moreover, haven't we been trying to
understand mind-body dualism for milleniums. Aren't we still trying? Isn't
psychiatry the modern day equivalent of this quest. While I understand the
concerns of the anti-psychiatric movement surely the psychiatric movement's
their belief in the efficiency and importance of both cognitive behavioural
therapy and medication in achieving more frequent and longer lasting MDD
remissions isn't complete hyperbole and nonsense.
---
Steve
"jake" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:q0o3vv0hamuo1hstk...@4ax.com...
Squiggles
>
> I would agree that there no magic bullets...except maybe ourselves. Jake,
> what do make of assertion that remission rates are, in fact, lowered with a
> combination of medication and CBT. Do you imagine that it is the CBT working
> by itself...if so, you need to get published as you are putting a great
> deals of psychiatrist's to shame. :) Let's suppose the risk is this: The
> brain is extremely complicated. Our understanding of it is rudimentary. (I
> think we all agree with that.) So, when we attempt to "medicate" it we run
> the risk of causing bigger potentially unseen problems that may manifest
> themselves in people later, or sooner, in the case of children and suicide.
> So, do we wait until we have a "more" complete picture of the brain's
> workings? We may be waiting a while. Moreover, haven't we been trying to
> understand mind-body dualism for milleniums. Aren't we still trying? Isn't
> psychiatry the modern day equivalent of this quest. While I understand the
> concerns of the anti-psychiatric movement surely the psychiatric movement's
> their belief in the efficiency and importance of both cognitive behavioural
> therapy and medication in achieving more frequent and longer lasting MDD
> remissions isn't complete hyperbole and nonsense.
> ---
> Steve
>
>
to be solved and the question is how. Unfortunately risk
is part of medicine at least until certainty is won with
ailments.
Squiggles
Squiggles
>
> to knowingly dispense drugs that you suspect will incite mania
> akethesia and suicidal ideation to people you suspect are in the
> category this happens to?
>
> ethically it seems on a par with throwing women
> into a lake...
> and if they drown they were not a witch
> but if they survive they are.
>
>
Yes, that is how most great discoveries in medicine
have come about; and it's not much different now with
so many people on the net asking what the 24th drug
they try will be like;
I was lucky, i swam, and when imipramine looked like
it would sink me, my doctor was kind enough to let
me stop it.
There is always a hint, but i propose that this inductive
way of trying drugs is much better than the pseudo-neurology
wisdom that theorizes that this drug will work. At least
this way, you have the person's feedback personally and
directly -- then you can make your scientific investigations.
Following the Hippocratic oath - it is how the patient
feels that is primary in medical practice.
Squiggles
jake
wrote:
hmmm...
you must have agood doctor as you are giving them a present..
I can see you know very little about the socialization and
training of psychiatrists..particularly biopsychiatrists..
They are trained from the onset that how a patient feels is of the
utmost unimportance..
"there is no point talking to disease"..is a common slogan constantly
recycled..
Squiggles
>
> hmmm...
> you must have agood doctor as you are giving them a present..
>
> I can see you know very little about the socialization and
> training of psychiatrists..particularly biopsychiatrists..
>
> They are trained from the onset that how a patient feels is of the
> utmost unimportance..
>
> "there is no point talking to disease"..is a common slogan constantly
> recycled..
I see. Yes, i have little discourse with biopsychiatrists;
frankly, i always assumed they would be far more knowledgeable
that general practitioners, having a more extensive knowledge
of drugs - i still believe that regardless of the high esteem
i have of my doctor. I think that how a patient feels esp.
in psychiatry IS the point, right? I mean nobody in his right
mind likes to hallucinate and shake with anxiety.
Squiggles
jake
wrote:
>jake wrote:
>>
>> hmmm...
>> you must have agood doctor as you are giving them a present..
>>
>> I can see you know very little about the socialization and
>> training of psychiatrists..particularly biopsychiatrists..
>>
>> They are trained from the onset that how a patient feels is of the
>> utmost unimportance..
>>
>> "there is no point talking to disease"..is a common slogan constantly
>> recycled..
>
>
>I see. Yes, i have little discourse with biopsychiatrists;
>frankly, i always assumed they would be far more knowledgeable
>that general practitioners, having a more extensive knowledge
>of drugs - i still believe that regardless of the high esteem
>i have of my doctor.
sure..but ironically sometimes very little knowledge of human
beings or what makes them tick..unlike the Hollywood stereotype..
>I think that how a patient feels esp.
>in psychiatry IS the point, right?
only as a collection of symptoms to categorize.
unscrupulous students talk of "pumping a patient for goodies"
by this they mean behaving in such a way as to elicit symptoms
of a common psychiatric disorder they can quickly diagnose and be
marked as having experience with it..
the patient "emits" symptoms..
if the patient writes a poem he is "indulging in writing behaviour"
for example..
objectification and complete lack of intimacy or empathy is the ideal
for such a type of psychiatrist..
of course not al have this approach and not all of those that do
succed in attaining it..
>I mean nobody in his right
>mind likes to hallucinate and shake with anxiety.
hmmm
you might be suprised at what some people will take and do to achieve
such a headchange..
whether they are "in their right mind" I suppose is questionable..
Steve
right...the question is how and with what. If the efficiency or
effectiveness of SSRI's - or lack of - is examined against the backdrop of
obscene pharmaceutical profits it will always be possible to relegate any
progress to the trash. In my own life when I examine any medication that I
use for the treatment of my Type 1 diabetes I usually encounter the
following points: 1)They are incredibly expensive and 2) their effectiveness
for some is tempered and matched by their ineffectivenss for others. Does
the latter point mean that I will throw out the baby with the bathwater. I
think not. Do I get angry given that I am held captive by a disease and the
obscene profits of the drug companies in terms of diabetic supplies? Of
course I do. But, like the depressive I wish to live of a life of quality
that is free from pain and suffering as much as a life can be. I decided to
take a small dose of Paxil knowing full well that there are risks involved.
The fact that many people do not benefit from AD's does not negate the fact
that some do. I for one am glad I have the choice as I believe many
depressed people are as well. To believe that they are a magic bullet is
foolishness. However, to believe that they offer no benefit is no different.
--
Steve
"Squiggles" <squi...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FF20360...@sympatico.ca...
Nom dePlume
crusade against medication and prescribing physicians. If you see his
name, you don't need to read the post, because you already know what
it will say.
--
Nom dePlume, Ph.D
Why, yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist.
"Squiggles" <squi...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FF21263...@sympatico.ca...
jake
<nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
>Squiggles - Ignore "jake."
lol..at it again huh?
Squiggles is a big girl who I have known for years.
you...being a bipolar in denial.. would do well to take
advice from her..
<flamebait clipped>
have the best new year you can
Squiggles
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:47:34 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
> <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Squiggles - Ignore "jake."
>
> lol..at it again huh?
>
> Squiggles is a big girl who I have known for years.
> you...being a bipolar in denial.. would do well to take
> advice from her..
>
who are you in RL - do you live in my neighbourhood,
on my street, in my house, LOL!
Squiggles
Squiggles
No offense, but i get the impession you are
stretching things: "they pump patients", "they
interpret writing a poem as indulging in writing
behaviour, "not all have this approach", i might
be surprised what people will do for a headchange...
vaguaries - it makes me wonder what YOU are
trying to prove;
Squiggles
jake
wrote:
they are quotes from a Phd thesis on "The Socialization
and Training of Psychiatrists".. an ethnomethodological
covert study where the author used the participant-observer approach
and went through a year of the training himself..
> "not all have this approach",
of course not..I believe I pointed this out..
>i might be surprised what people will do for a headchange...
>vaguaries -
just a snippet based on many years experience with drug addicts and
mental patients..
no big deal..
>it makes me wonder what YOU are
>trying to prove;
>
Its a very common complaint of mental patients
..in my experience.that their psychiatrists simply do not
listen and do not take into consideration their feelings
but patronize them and leave them feeling invalidated..
your experience is clearly quite different..
>Squiggles
jake
wrote:
>jake wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:47:34 -0800, "Nom dePlume"
>> <nomdeplume1000-at-yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Squiggles - Ignore "jake."
>>
>> lol..at it again huh?
>>
>> Squiggles is a big girl who I have known for years.
>> you...being a bipolar in denial.. would do well to take
>> advice from her..
>>
>"known for years"? Y I K E S! !
well three and a half..
>
>who are you in RL - do you live in my neighbourhood,
>on my street, in my house, LOL!
no..only in your computer
:>)
Squiggles
>
> Its a very common complaint of mental patients
> ..in my experience.that their psychiatrists simply do not
> listen and do not take into consideration their feelings
> but patronize them and leave them feeling invalidated..
>
> your experience is clearly quite different..
>
So i guess you are a psychiatrist? or counsellor...
I am not surprised by the above ... it is a problem
of lack of intimacy. If your husband or mother
were a psychiatrist, chances are they would do
a better job, simply because they have known the
nuances of your character for many years, assuming
that they have some insight. Doctors whatever their
ilk, just don't know you as long - that is a practical
problem.
Squiggles
Squiggles
> no..only in your computer
>
> :>)
Well, i hope you stay there.
Squiggles
jake
wrote:
>jake wrote:
>
>> no..only in your computer
>>
>> :>)
>
>Well, i hope you stay there.
yes..you can always switch an online aquaintance
off..
pity the same is not true for relatives sometimes..
Steve
--
Steve
I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have
been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now
and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst
the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
Isaac Newton
"jake" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:6316vvkaoibv555vb...@4ax.com...
jake
wrote:
>sounds a little like holiday season hangover. :)
well..I had better not comment but roll on new year I say
:>)
Happy New Year to one and all..!
Steve
--
Steve
I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have
been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now
and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst
the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.
Isaac Newton
"jake" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:aq66vvcc8nplv0cg0...@4ax.com...
Poop Dogg
>
> http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0,1413,206~24495~1857753,00.html
>
> In 1988 an ophthalmologist contacted us because his daughter had
> unexpectedly committed suicide while taking Prozac. He was convinced
> that this antidepressant had somehow triggered her sudden violent act.
>
> We could find nothing in the medical literature to support his
> suspicion, and so we dismissed his report as the desperate
> rationalization of a grieving parent. We assumed that a depressed
> young woman might take her life, even on an antidepressant.
I won't deny the possibility of an SSRI/suicide connection. But I
remember reading one possible explanation for it if it does indeed
exist. According to the theory, many people who are severely
depressed may already have an inclination towards suicide, but are
so depressed that they actually lack the motivation or energy to
go through with it. So when they begin SSRI treatment, their energy
returns and they now have sufficient motivation to go through with
it. Ironically, they commit suicide because they feel better!
jake
wrote:
yeah..I am sure that happens..
but when normal volunteers get suicidal somethings amiss..
reckless to take chances with kids anyhow IMO..
>
--
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is
the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a
simple matter to drag people along, whether it is a democracy, or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship.Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding
of the leaders.
This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country."
Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall
at the Nuremberg Trials After World War II