My girlfriend left me...now what?
Peter Ross
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Dear Barry:
From this great distance it would seem that your girlfriend is suffering
from bipolar disorder. It's hard to be sure and there's really no way
that one can say, from the information posted, whether or not she has
schizoaffective disorder.
At any rate, bipolar disorder _cannot_ be left to be treated by a
primary care physician. It really needs the attention of a
psychiatrist, preferably a biopsychiatrist or psychopharmacologist. The
illness is usually treatable, successfully, by such a specialist. The
difficult part is convincing her that she does, in fact, need that kind
of treatment.
Hopefully you'll be able to convince her. If not, next time she's
hospitalized, perhaps you can get the people at the hospital to try to
convince her. I wish I had an easy solution for you.
Best of luck,
Peter
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The National Foundation for Depressive Illness, Inc. maintains "800" lines which, presently through a
recorded message, provide callers with the symptoms of depression and manic depression and inform them
of how to receive a packet of additional information from NAFDI. This additional information includes a
referral list, by state, of doctors and support groups as well as a bibliography, our brochure and additional
relevant articles. The number to call, toll-free, is 1-800-245-4306.
If you are familiar with the symptoms of depression and manic depression and prefer not to listen to the
recording, you may write to us, The National Foundation for Depressive Illness, Inc. (or NAFDI) at Post
Office Box 2257, New York, NY 10116-2257 and request the information. Please enclose a self-addressed
envelope of business size or larger with $1.01 of U.S. postage affixed (for U.S. addresses). As we are a
not-for-profit organization, if you can afford it, please enclose a contribution of $5 or more. If you can't
afford that, please let us know and we'll be happy to send you exactly the same material at no charge.
You may also visit us at our web page <http://www.depression.org>.
In any case, we wish you good luck!
--------------20F56BC71911--
Barry Bahrami
Here is an update:
I just spoke with her on the phone. It's so friggin frustrating! I feel
like I'm talking to a brick wall! All she keeps saying is "Barry, I will
always love you, but I'm not happy when I'm with you".
And I keep telling her, "no kidding, you were depressed!". Then she takes
that as a personal attack of some kind, which it isn't...it's just telling
her how it is! I'm the one that got her on the Prozac and she knows it. I
just don't know what to do now.
Thank you anyone for your help.
BB
Barry Bahrami <gen...@commercial-illusions.com> wrote in article
<01bcd461$3c9d76c0$46ec35c6@front>...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am somewhat new to this newsgroup, although my girlfriend used to check
> it out on occasion. She built an Email correspondence with a few of you,
> but I don't know who or what...
>
> Anyway, We have been dating for three years. It is/was a very beautiful
> relationship and we love eachother very much. The problems started
showing
> about 9 months ago. She went to some "retreat" where they taught you how
> do be more productive and things. If you ask anyone else, it is a cult.
> She paid something like $600 for this "Lifesprings" seminar and since
then
> she hasn't been the same.
>
> A few days after Lifesprings, she called me on the phone and said "I
think
> I want to be single now". Yeah, that was it. I was floored. I knew her
> and It was obvious something was up. I couldn't let her go that easily,
> either. She started getting worse and even irrational. She was finally
> hospitalized in a psychriatric hospital - against her will - for about a
> week and a half. During this time they put her on Zyprexia, but she
hardly
> took it. She kept talking about attorneys and the law that they finally
> made an agreement with her where they would let her go home to her
mothers
> house in Los Angeles, about 2 hours north of here. Up in Los Angeles she
> got a little worse and was put in the hospital up there for about two
days.
>
> During her stay in the first hospital, I visited her every day. She
would
> call me names at first and said I "wanted sex" and such. I don't know if
> it is related, but she was molested as a child and still has unresolved
> issues with this and her mother.
>
> I lost touch with her after she went to L.A., until a few weeks later she
> walked in my office and clearly needed me. We have such a strong
> connection between us it is impossible to put it into words. She was so
> lost. However, when ever she hugged me or any type of close contact, she
> would start heaving - trying to throw up. It was some subconcious
> reaction. It eventually went away and we were back together again.
>
> Until...she started getting really depressed. I mean REALLY depressed.
My
> father is a M.D. (cardiologist and internal medicine). Although he isn't
a
> psychiatrist, he told me before she went into the first hospital that she
> was "bi-polar schitsofrenic". I didn't see much schitsofrenia in her
until
> she was EXTREMELY manic prior to entering the first hospital.
>
> Anyway...she started getting really depressed a month or two after
comming
> back to me. We would be watching TV and she would break out crying! It
> hurt me so damn much to see her in all this pain. A friend of mine is
> taking Prozac for depression and that medicine has totally changed his
> life. I told her about it and she asked her doctor who initially didn't
> want to put her on it for fear she would become manic again. But the
> depression was so severe she kept pushing the doctor till he finally
> agreed.
>
> WOW! She started getting better and much happier. So much that she
> started going out w/her friends and drinking! Oh no! Drinking and she
> even began smoking cigars! I started to not see her as much...and all
this
> time she practically lived with me. I mean, she had her own place and
all,
> but she never went there. She always stayed with me. My god, I loved
> that.
>
> It seemed the more she went out with her friends the less I saw of her,
> until she finally said she didn't want to have such a serious
relationship.
> Flags immediately went off in my mind. Oh no...I was told to watch her
> closely (by my father)...but this was such a shock! She went from being
> completely happy with me to actively distancing herself almost overnight!
> I didn't see it comming 'till it had already passed.
>
> Well, she broke up with me AGAIN about three weeks ago. She doesn't call
> much at all, but continues to say that she loves me and will "always be a
> part of my life". If you ask me, I think she is manic again. I get
that
> same feeling as the first time she was. I can't put my finger on it, I
> guess it is the subtle things she does. Also, she works very late almost
> every night.
>
> What is going on??? Has anyone come accross this before? Is she going
to
> come back to me again? And, most importantly, is she going to be ok?
>
> Thank you to anyone who can offer any help. I love her so much...and now
I
> find I am the depressed one - with out her.
>
> BB
>
Barry Bahrami
Thank you, Joan. I had a feeling it was going to happen this way.
Yesterday she told me she wasn't in love with me - opposite of what she
said last week!
Anyway, I'm giving her the space she needs, but it is very hard. I hate to
think of her out in the "big world" on her own with such destructive
behavior. I told her about the Litium and to get off the Prozac, but right
now I'm the bad guy, so it didn't do a bit of good. I keep thinking of a
few months ago when she asked me if I would ever leave her. And now look.
Go figure.
Regardless of what she says, she hasn't gone to my house to pick up her
things. I know how she is and that's because she isn't ready to end our
relationship, regardless of what she says. All my friends keep telling me
to not let it destroy me, which is what I'm doing. I have a booming
business to take care of. A business which I dreamed would support both of
us one day. I guess only time will tell. In the mean time, the phone
isn't ringing and I can't tell you how much that hurts me.
It is plain as day that she is manic again. Unfortunately, *she* can't see
it.
Thank you for all your help,
BB
Stephen W. Yost <yo...@cyberport.com> wrote in article
<01bcd54e$05b45140$814b86cc@wcrm>...
>
>
> Barry Bahrami <gen...@commercial-illusions.com> wrote in article
> <01bcd461$3c9d76c0$46ec35c6@front>...
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I am somewhat new to this newsgroup, although my girlfriend used to
check
> > it out on occasion. She built an Email correspondence with a few of
you,
> > but I don't know who or what...
> >
> > Anyway, We have been dating for three years. It is/was a very
beautiful
> > relationship and we love eachother very much. The problems started
> showing
> > She went from being
> > completely happy with me to actively distancing herself almost
overnight!
>
> > I didn't see it comming 'till it had already passed.
> >
> > What is going on??? Has anyone come accross this before? Is she going
> to
> > come back to me again? And, most importantly, is she going to be ok?
>
> BB, you are describing my life the first year after I was diagnosed.
There
> are big chunks of it that I don't remember, which is probably for the
best.
> I treated my fiancé unbelievably badly...walked out on him...was
> abusive...the works. I didn't go through the cult thing, though. (I
have
> heard of that cult before. What I have seen and heard of it convinces me
> that it is very destructive. Because mind altering techniques are used,
> your girlfriend may have had a lot of old feelings or memories surface,
or
> worse.)
>
> If my own experience is any indication, your relationship with her is
going
> to be a mess until she gets stabilized on Lithium, Depakote or Tegretol.
> These are the three main drugs used to control mania. Going on
> antidepressants is dangerous because they can make her mania worse (as
you
> have already seen).
>
> My fiancé's response to my behavior was to cut me off completely as a way
> of protecting his own sanity. Actually, I think my doctor recommended it
> to him. For him it was really painful...but I think it was the only sane
> thing to do. Eventually we re-established our relationship, very, very
> slowly. It has worked out for us though. He has always been there for
me
> when I've been in crisis and he can do that because he takes care of
> himself.
>
> Best of luck,
> Joan
>
James D. Milton
<Posted and Mailed to Barry>
On 10 Oct 1997 21:41:09 GMT, "Barry Bahrami"
<gen...@commercial-illusions.com> wrote:
>Thank you, Joan. I had a feeling it was going to happen this way.
>Yesterday she told me she wasn't in love with me - opposite of what she
>said last week!
>Anyway, I'm giving her the space she needs, but it is very hard. I hate to
>think of her out in the "big world" on her own with such destructive
>behavior. I told her about the Lithium and to get off the Prozac, but right
>now I'm the bad guy, so it didn't do a bit of good. I keep thinking of a
>few months ago when she asked me if I would ever leave her. And now look.
>Go figure.
>Regardless of what she says, she hasn't gone to my house to pick up her
>things. I know how she is and that's because she isn't ready to end our
>relationship, regardless of what she says. All my friends keep telling me
>to not let it destroy me, which is what I'm doing. I have a booming
>business to take care of. A business which I dreamed would support both of
>us one day. I guess only time will tell. In the mean time, the phone
>isn't ringing and I can't tell you how much that hurts me.
>It is plain as day that she is manic again. Unfortunately, *she* can't see
>it.
Barry, what do you know about BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder)?
Your girl friend appears IMO to have some aspects of BPD. Just because
she has one mental disorder (BP), it doesn't necessarily preclude the
possibility of another. I suggest that you check out the symptoms of
BPD. She could be just entering into this new phase -- and needs
professional help for BPD and/or BP.
<Rest Snipped to Conserve Bandwidth>
Just another thought from,
James
rick
Dear BB,
If you have accurately described your girlfriend, it sounds like she is
manic-depressive and possible BP1 - to get an inkling of what this
severe form of manic-depression is about, I suggest you read the new
book, AN UNQUIET MIND, by Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison, who has battled
this illness (in this extreme form) all her life - and she is now a
world authority on this illness and on the faculty at Johns Hopkins
University. A BRILLIANT MADNESS by Patty Duke (*the* Patty Duke)
describes *her* battle with the same acute form of this illness, and
there is an alternating chapter by her friend and psychiatrist who puts
a clinical slant on Patty's colloquial sharing.
Putting your girlfriend on Prozac sounds like the most incompetent thing
to have done - whoever did it did not have a clue about her situation.
MDs in denial are very good at minimizing or hiding their illness from
view or excusing it away. And Prozac is an SSRI antidepressant which is
known to trigger manic episodes in BPs. Your description of her
behavior after taking Prozac sounds like a classic manic episode.
Also, you are absolutely correct about Lifespring - it is a destructive
cult. I was abused sexually as a child and also was abused in a cult
while an adult (for many years), and I'm bipolar too, I have recently
discovered. There are connections between all of these, especially
between victims of child abuse and later victims of cults (a familiar
scenario). It sounds like the cult played into her manic-ness, and
cults are very expert at determing and playing into people's
vulnerabilities. It also sounds like they picked up on her victim-ness
and played it to the hilt. I'm sorry she ended up hospitalized, but it's
better than getting the business from a cult.
I'm sorry you're being put through all this. If you really love her and
are willing to put up with anything, you just might be able to see her
through to a better place in life, for her and for you both, but it
sounds like she needs medical attention and probably drug therapy, like
lithium for example. Getting her into that doctor's office is half the
battle. In a manic episode, the last thing anyone wants to here is that
they are mentally ill. Usually, the feeling is elation and omniscience -
so any suggestion of needing psychiatric care goes unheeded until the MD
person goes into the depressive phase of the cycle. Be very watchful is
I guess the best advice - and wait for the right moment. Also, get
information from knowledgeable people, like psychiatrists, and read
books on the subject. There is a lot of information available on the
web. Be informed. And take heart - you're not the first person to go
through seeing a loved one in such terrible straits. Feel free to keep
posting here for tips and support. And ultimately, you are the one who
must decide if you want to, or can, provide the support and
companionship to this woman during this period. Some people can and do
take incredible hardship on behalf of a loved one - others can't and
don't. Do not feel like a failure if you find you can't handle it. Your
own life has to come first. All FWIW --
all the best,
Rick
Stephen W. Yost
Barry Bahrami
I don't know anyting about it. Can anyone tell me the symptoms of BPD?
Thanks in advance,
Barry
James D. Milton <jdmi...@primenet.com> wrote in article
<3444599b...@news.primenet.com>...
Barry Bahrami
Wow! Thank you for the detailed help. I printed it out to keep it handy.
I will get that book and am already keeping an eye on her. However, you
are right. I told her she needed to get of the Prozac and see the Dr.,
however she thinks Prozac is the best thing that ever happened to her.
I will keep everyone posted. Thank you for all the support.
Barry
rick <stc...@mit.edu> wrote in article <343EB8...@mit.edu>...
Marco Anglesio
Barry Bahrami (gen...@commercial-illusions.com) wrote:
: I don't know anyting about it. Can anyone tell me the symptoms of BPD?
http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr20.html
Diagnostic Criteria
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships,
self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early
adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or
more) of the following:
frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not
include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships
characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and
devaluation
identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or
sense of self
impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging
(e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in
Criterion 5.
recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating
behavior
affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense
episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours
and only rarely more than a few days)
chronic feelings of emptiness
inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g.,
frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative
symptoms
---
angl...@democracy.queensu.ca http://cauchy.home.ml.org
"We know what causes violence: poverty, discrimination, the
failure of the educational system. It's not the genes that
cause violence in our society." - Paul Billings
Barry Bahrami
Mark,
You're not the first person to tell me that, but hearing it from you has
made it set it.
She just called me (at my office). I'm shaking right now, I don't know
why. She sounded very business like and wanted to arrange when she could
pick up her things. I can tell from her voice that she is *way* manic
right now.
I asked her "are you sure you want to break up"? And she said "yeah, I'm
happy". For some reason, I always knew that when she got up on her feet
that she would leave me. So why did I stick with her for three years? I
guess I just love her. It's so hard being w/out her, too. She's not there
to cuddle any more.
I've been spending a lot of time w/my firends and doing more scuba diving,
but still, their is a big void in my life right now.
Oh god, she just called again. Confirming that she will come by Thursday
after work to pick up her things. I just spoke w/her not more than 5
minutes ago!
Have you really been through this before? Has anyone gone through similiar
situations? It's hard to believe that I'm not alone here.
Barry
mark and sam <mar...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
<61vru4$qge$1...@newsfep3.sprintmail.com>...
> You better now realize that any relationship you will have with her on
any
> level will be very unhealthy for you. It may begin to drag you down and
> your defenses become strained. She will take all your attention during
> thses manic episodes
>
> Lifesprings seems to me to be an experience of longing for some kind of
> emptiness that never fills [manic] Child abuse issues are apart of many
> disorders and run very dysfunctional lives to the ground. She will
always
> come back to you when she needs things she knows you will "bail" her out
> It was good that you observed the pain and in talking to another
suggested
> a medication for it. Prozac obviously isn't the whole answer.
>
> I don't think its so much the drinking it that under the influence she
no
> longer needs you!! You allowed here through your help to reach the goal
of
> being on her feet and off she goes!!
>
> You take care of your OWN happiness not anothers, Yes she will call again
> and the cycle will continue. Yes I've been there and done it living
> together for 4 years of hell that could've been a good live.
>
> Good Luck BB the hardest part is ahead love yourself she'll call pull and
> manipulate..be careful!!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
AMITY S. TAYLOR
i am writing this post, although not my first, to try to maybe ask some
advice of people who live with bp. like i have said before, i have
clinical depression, but my boyfriend right now is really dealing with the
depression side of bp, and i am just looking for suggestions as to how to
deal with it in the most helpful way. we lived together until about a
week ago when this phase hit really hard. he said that he needed time to
be apart, etc. i understand this, and really the only difference in our
relationship is that he is not sleeping at my place. i still see him a
lot. he is just beginning, tomorrow, actually, to start therapy again. we
just finished having a tough talk about the reality of this. the thing is
that he is afraid that in a relationship, he will discover that he can't
get better. that he has to focus on himself. i agree. but i have been
with him for five years now, and i REALLY care about him. i don't mean
this in a selfish way at all. i REALLY want for him to get help, and be
helped, so that he can somehow improve his quality of life. i KNOW that
he won't be able to be as emotionally there for me during this time and
that's OKAY with me. i guess my question to anyone who has bp is this.
and please help me if you have any answers about it. i really want for our
relationship to be a source of strength for him. i don't want it to be at
all emotionally draining, or something that he has to worry about, because
he has enough on his mind right now. what is the best way for me to deal
with him at this point? i want to love him and be a support for him if he
needs it, but at the same time, i don't want to enable him at all, to
inadvertently keep him from getting help. i have tried to tell him that i
love him and
that we have gone through so much together and that he really HAS to trust
that i WANT to be here, and that he doesn't need to focus right now on
anything except helping himself, and that if i find that this ISN't good
for me, i won't do it anymore (something he seems to be worried about),
but that i really DO want to be here, in a sort of non intrusive way. i
don't want him to feel that the love i have for him has to be a source of
guilt for him - because it seems that he sometimes feels guilty because he
can't return it right now in the way that i need. i just want him to feel
loved and supported, but not pressure from me. how do i do this? he says
that he will always love me and care for me, and that we have so much
going for us that he wants me to still be there and that he will always
care about me, but that he is really afraid that he will discover through
this therapy that he has too much self improvement to do to be able to
deal with any relationship - but at the same time, he doesn't want to deal
with the pressure of losing this one. how do i love him, constructively
through this? any input would be really appreciated. how have people in
your lives dealt with you in compassionate ways through hard times that
you really appreciated? thanks -
On 15 Oct 1997, SebastiánV wrote:
> I hope this post is of use to you, sice I've been on both sides of your
> story.
>
> The problem with my ex-girlfriend was picking the wrong partners after we
> broke up. She would call me again for me to bail her out of the problem.
> Everyone told me she was using me everytime she had a problem, but that I
> was not on her mind when she was doing the things that kept her in trouble,
> but I kept bailing her out.
>
> I am manic-depressive and have done the same thing to others: while manic,
> call, say something really hurting, hang up suddenly and very mad, call
> again in a few minutes, start nice and finish equally mad and saying things
> just to hurt. Then call again and again. If the persons refused to hear my
> idiotic comments by phone, I would go to their homes, out of control and
> continue there. Just whish someone had really stopped me on the ground, but
> no-one, incluiding me, knew my disease.
>
> Your situation is really unique, use this only as a comment from someone
> who has passed through so many hells!
>
> Truly hope you can find peace. I cannot relate completely to your
> experience but can relate to your suffering. It is just so bad, I wish you
> can get out of it soon.
>
> Sebastián
>
>
> Please feel free to email me if you believe I can be of help.
Barry Bahrami
Yeah, I clearly see the cycle here. When she is not manic, we are
inseperable, but times like now...I am just a big nusence to her. She
completely shuts me out and is very hurtfull.
I still love her and would really like to help her, but I don't know if she
is ready for help.
Tomorrow is the big day. She is going to be comming over to pick up her
things. Anyone know what I should say to her?
Barry
SebastiánV <SEBASTI...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<621dkr$r...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
Barry Bahrami
Thank's, guys. I will let you know how it goes.
I can't believe it has come to this, AGAIN. For some reason, this time
seems more perminante. I don't know why. My god, it's making *me*
depressed just dwelling on it.
Barry
James D. Milton <jdmi...@primenet.com> wrote in article
<3444bcba...@news.primenet.com>...
> <Posted and Mailed to Barry>
>
> On 15 Oct 1997 23:07:05 GMT, "SebastiánV"
> <SEBASTI...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> <A Whole Lot of Sniping Going On!>
>
> >My concrete opinion: do not talk too munch, listen carefully, do not
judge,
> >do not blame, do not go overboard offering help. Let her do the talking.
> >LISTEN and shut your mouth! Most people sin in the side of talking too
> >munch than of listening too much.
>
> IMO that's excellent advice from Sebastián! I would only tell her a
> couple of things.
>
> (1) Tell her that you love her very much!
>
> (2) Tell her that you be there for her IF (not WHEN) she needs you.
>
> Kiss her goodbye on the cheek. That's it!
>
> HTH!
>
> James
>
James D. Milton
James D. Milton
<Posted and Mailed to Barry>
On 17 Oct 1997 16:49:18 GMT, "Barry Bahrami"
<gen...@commercial-illusions.com> wrote:
>Well, last night she came and got her stuff. However, she took more cell
>phone batteries, a cell phone on my line. I wonder if this is her way of
>hanging on.
Possibly?
>She also decided to leave her art easels at my office. I don't know why.
She may not be very rational if she is too far out of it.
>It was so obvious how manic she is. She also didn't want to hug me because
>"it was too emotional". I'm not the one doing the break up, she is! So if
>it is so emotional, then why go though the break up?
You are thinking logically whereas she is reacting emotionally. There is
no point in trying to figure her out.
>I took your advice. I just told her I love her and I was here for her.
That's all you could do in this situation. Did she respond?
>Then, after she left, I cried my eyes out.
There are times when you just have to let someone that you love go. You
have done all that you could do. She may well "find herself" someday and
return to you. Hope so!
Hang in there!
Wishing you all the best from,
James
Barry Bahrami
Well, last night she came and got her stuff. However, she took more cell
phone batteries, a cell phone on my line. I wonder if this is her way of
hanging on.
She also decided to leave her art eisles at my office. I don't know why.
It was so obvious how manic she is. She also didn't want to hug me because
"it was too emotional". I'm not the one doing the break up, she is! So if
it is so emotional, then why go though the break up?
I took your advice. I just told her I love her and I was here for her.
Then, after she left, I cried my eyes out.
Barry
Barry Bahrami <gen...@commercial-illusions.com> wrote in article
<01bcda50$7746d1a0$46ec35c6@front>...
> Thank's, guys. I will let you know how it goes.
>
> I can't believe it has come to this, AGAIN. For some reason, this time
> seems more perminante. I don't know why. My god, it's making *me*
> depressed just dwelling on it.
>
> Barry
>
>
>
> James D. Milton <jdmi...@primenet.com> wrote in article
> <3444bcba...@news.primenet.com>...
> > <Posted and Mailed to Barry>
> >