A puckering SLEDGEHAMMER?
0:->
http://www.katu.com/news/national/3891877.html
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
Petie the Patriot
the couch with the football team -
Not to worry - CPS will see that she is allowed to do whatever she wishes-
and even pay some strangers a grand or two a month to babysit her.
"0:->" <pohak...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f6dndVIXcCFkpvY...@scnresearch.com...
0:->
Petie the Patriot wrote:
> Yup - typical - teenager cries *abuse* 'cause Daddy won't let her sleep on
> the couch with the football team -
I guess I missed that part.
You care to point to it in the article, or some other source you have,
other than your overheated brain?
http://www.katu.com/news/national/3891877.html
I see you finished your rounds.
So if a girl decides to have sex (as opposed to a boy...who is just a
being a boy, after all) that's reason enough to chase her with a
sledgehammer. I see.
Gosh, you sorry he didn't catch her, are you?
0:->
Petie the Patriot
>
> Petie the Patriot wrote:
>> Yup - typical - teenager cries *abuse* 'cause Daddy won't let her sleep
>> on
>> the couch with the football team -
>
> I guess I missed that part.
>
> You care to point to it in the article, or some other source you have,
> other than your overheated brain?
As you've said so many times - this article is bullshit - CPS propaganda
about a disrespectful, disobedient teen using CPS to get her way.
Typical CPS case.Totally fuc'ed up - nobody home but fat lazy mall shoppin
caseworkers who love to giggle their jelly bellys about their godlike
goodness.
>
> http://www.katu.com/news/national/3891877.html
>
> I see you finished your rounds.
>
> So if a girl decides to have sex (as opposed to a boy...who is just a
> being a boy, after all) that's reason enough to chase her with a
> sledgehammer. I see.
That's what she says - she has CPS on her side as long as she has the
*sledgehammer* to fall back on -
Todays brats, it's chic to cry abuse to *get even* with your parents. CPS
makes it possible - kooks like you preach it everyday.
Now she can have 2 football teams on the couch and her caseworker will
praise her new social skills.
You pervs crack me up Butch - lol - Wholesale destroy families just so a few
perverts and homos can gain access to our kids.
0:->
> "0:->" <pohak...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1158060526.0...@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> Petie the Patriot wrote:
>>> Yup - typical - teenager cries *abuse* 'cause Daddy won't let her sleep
>>> on
>>> the couch with the football team -
>> I guess I missed that part.
>>
>> You care to point to it in the article, or some other source you have,
>> other than your overheated brain?
>
> As you've said so many times - this article is bullshit -
I've only listed it once and mentioned it twice.
> CPS propaganda
> about a disrespectful, disobedient teen using CPS to get her way.
Really? Where did I say that? There's no mention of CPS in this case.
Only the sheriff's office investigating a crime of assault.
> Typical CPS case.Totally fuc'ed up - nobody home but fat lazy mall shoppin
> caseworkers who love to giggle their jelly bellys about their godlike
> goodness.
Did you read the article? Where is CPS in the article?
>> http://www.katu.com/news/national/3891877.html
>>
>> I see you finished your rounds.
>>
>> So if a girl decides to have sex (as opposed to a boy...who is just a
>> being a boy, after all) that's reason enough to chase her with a
>> sledgehammer. I see.
>
> That's what she says - she has CPS on her side as long as she has the
> *sledgehammer* to fall back on -
You don't know what she did to 'inspire' her abuse by her parents,
victim blamer.
> Todays brats, it's chic to cry abuse to *get even* with your parents. CPS
> makes it possible - kooks like you preach it everyday.
Brats? Odd given that they have an extremely low crime rate that has
been going down for years. Looks you are the preacher here.
> Now she can have 2 football teams on the couch and her caseworker will
> praise her new social skills.
What caseworker? What football teams? You must be into that child porno
again, right?
> You pervs crack me up Butch - lol - Wholesale destroy families just so a few
> perverts and homos can gain access to our kids.
That's in the article? Where?
Guess you just couldn't be bothered to click the link:
Police arrest couple accused of locking daughter in trailer
Crime - A year after a bleeding 15-year-old seeks help in Aloha, her
father and stepmother surface
Tuesday, September 12, 2006
HOLLY DANKS
The Oregonian
HILLSBORO -- An Aloha man and woman sought for nearly a year on
accusations that they locked their 15-year-old daughter in a storage
trailer and beat her are awaiting extradition to Oregon after their
arrests last week in Arkansas.
Sgt. David Thompson of the Washington County Sheriff's Office said
Monday that Michael Anthony Maez and Terry Lynn Maez were found in
Waldron, Ark. Their two younger children, ages 9 and 14, were placed in
protective custody, Thompson said.
The case began Sept. 6, 2005 when a 15-year-old girl -- frightened,
bruised and bleeding -- ran to a Subway restaurant in the 17700 block of
Southwest Tualatin Valley Highway. She said she was homeless and did not
know where her parents were.
After weeks of investigation, Washington County sheriff's detectives
said they learned that Michael and Terry Maez, the girl's father and
stepmother, kept the girl locked in a storage trailer. The couple lived
in a camper next to the trailer just blocks from the Subway.
The girl reluctantly told detectives that the adults beat her with belts
and an ax handle and screwed shut the door of the trailer so she
couldn't escape. When Michael Maez came at her with a sledgehammer, she
escaped, detectives said.
By the time detectives went to arrest them, the Maezes had packed their
camper and left the area with the two younger children.
Thompson said Detective Kelly Jones worked on the case the past year.
"He hadn't given up yet," Thompson said, "but after quite a long time
without leads or tips it becomes difficult."
Ron Cox, a spokesman for the Scott County, Ark., Jail, said Michael
Maez, 38, was arrested Wednesday on an unrelated theft charge using the
name Michael Baumgartner.
KHBS-TV in Fort Smith, Ark., reported that Terry Maez, 35, was caught
when Scott County deputies stopped a suspected drunken driver Friday.
Cox said Terry Maez was a passenger in the car and was carrying false
identification.
"These people were good at flying under the radar," Thompson said. "They
were living in trailers, camping in the woods."
According to news reports, Terry Maez told police that she, her husband
and children had false IDs and were fugitives.
Waldron, population 3,500, is about 143 miles west of Little Rock, on
the Poteau River in the Ouachita Mountains. Thompson said Terry Maez
told authorities her husband had an acquaintance in the area.
Holly Danks: 503-221-4377; holly...@news.oregonian.com
Š2006 The Oregonian
Greegor
saw EVIL! Some others read about the sledgehammer
and immediately suspected a manipulative teenager
telling tall tales.
CPS workers believe the STUPIDEST stories!
That's why when a nutcase in a locked psycho ward
told a story about ritual satanic child abuse, the
workers and all of the supposed checks and balances (sic)
failed to consider the fact the report came from
a lunatic in a locked psycho ward!
Then again, what IS the rate of mental illness among
CPS caseworkers?
Curio Jones comes to mind certainly.
Geoffrey Rantz?
Kane?
0:->
> Kane read about the sledgehammer threat and
> saw EVIL!
I made no mention of evil. I did post the article.
> Some others read about the sledgehammer
> and immediately suspected a manipulative teenager
> telling tall tales.
Yep. The blame the victim folks are circle jerkin' as usual.
> CPS workers believe the STUPIDEST stories!
Do the police? No CPS worker was mentioned in this article. Not one.
The entire investigation and what was found was found and reported by
police.
Not that police can't be fooled, but according to Doug 0:-> the police
are sooo much better at investigation child abuse then CPS investigators.
> That's why when a nutcase in a locked psycho ward
> told a story about ritual satanic child abuse,
There's nothing in this story so far that has any possible analogy to
your examples.
> the
> workers and all of the supposed checks and balances (sic)
> failed to consider the fact the report came from
> a lunatic in a locked psycho ward!
There was no CPS worker involved in this. The girl was reported to
police as being bloodied when she showed up at a local fast food
restaurant.
Hell, she wouldn't even tell the cops the truth of what happened to her
she was so frightened of her loving parents.
> Then again, what IS the rate of mental illness among
> CPS caseworkers?
You seem unable to argue the merits of the story itself and turn to
attacking in another direction.
What in the story would lead you to believe that she, or CPS workers are
concocting the events the police claim are the facts?
> Curio Jones comes to mind certainly.
> Geoffrey Rantz?
You have a lot of things come to mind, Greg, when you can't handle and
issue. Usually a Fern-like attempt to blame CPS for everything, even
when they aren't even in the picture.
It's a criminal investigation, Greg. The only part CPS is likely to have
played if finding a foster home for the girl to stay in until this is
resolved. Hopefully she has a mother somewhere that is responsible and
can take her in. She was with her biological father and her stepmother,
so unless mom is dead she's out there somewhere.
Probably CPS placed her with her dad, though. And didn't even investigate.
Of course, CPS doesn't place children in divorce disputes, the court
does. Come to think about it, the COURT MAKES THE FINAL DECISION in
parental placements anyway, Greg.
So at this point you have no leg's below the knees. Notice?
>
> Kane?
Stupid?
Answer my challenges, for once, instead of running like the sick little
coward you are.
You've been around here long enough to have learned the facts I just
presented. You only "forget" them, or study your ignorance of them so
you can make mindless babbling claims you can't support any other way.
Show us where CPS was involved, stupid. The article is still up and
available.
Go read it.
0:->
Greegor
turns on you the way the Boss case did?
You played up the murder by parents for months
until we discovered they were ADOPTIVE.
(Getting a monthly check)
(Probably foster/adopters)
What would you do if we find out this girl's
DRAMATIC story was a scam?
You KNOW teenagers are capable of much worse than that!
0:->
> While it may be unlikely, what will you do if this
> turns on you the way the Boss case did?
>
> You played up the murder by parents for months
> until we discovered they were ADOPTIVE.
> (Getting a monthly check)
> (Probably foster/adopters)
Did you see me try to apologize for them? Nope. It does not matter HOW a
person becomes a parent...if they kill they should be made to pay the
price.
You show us where I defended them, Greg. Go ahead.
You are a liar, Greg, and this is perfect example.
> What would you do if we find out this girl's
> DRAMATIC story was a scam?
I'd damn her for doing it, just like I do you, Greg.
And you've seen me excoriate the guilty, WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO
BE GUILTY, GREG, every single time.
Regardless of WHO they are.
> You KNOW teenagers are capable of much worse than that!
I know you are capable of robbing a bank. After all, it's mostly men,
mostly young to middle aged men and you are one or more of those.
I notice, so far, I've seen no media release you've taken up bank
robbery. Please stay straight.
Now IF you have proof the girl is running a scam, OR you find a story
that even suggests she is PLEASE POST IT HERE, and I will be influenced
by it, appropriately and feel anything from annoyed to pissed that a kid
would run a scam about abuse. BY PARENTS, STEP PARENTS, ADOPTIVE
PARENTS, FOSTER PARENTS, ANY PERSONS IN LOCO PARENTIS TO THE CHILD, OR
THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
Why, you might ask?
Well, because for OTHER kids that ARE being abused, their story might
not be believed because of her, and pissants like you will help create
that aura of disbelief that abused children so often have to face when
they try to tell someone about it.
Your response here shows once again the level of morals and ethics you
enjoy.
When you find out she WAS abused what are YOU going to do, Greg? Are you
going to apologize for bad mouthing her?
I doubt it. We'll see then, won't we.
Greegor
> While it may be unlikely, what will you do if this
> turns on you the way the Boss case did?
>
> You played up the murder by parents for months
> until we discovered they were ADOPTIVE.
> (Getting a monthly check)
> (Probably foster/adopters)
Kane wrote
> Did you see me try to apologize for them? Nope. It does not matter HOW a
> person becomes a parent...if they kill they should be made to pay the
> price.
> You show us where I defended them, Greg. Go ahead.
You never defended them, you kept rubbing it in that
biological parents abuse kids, citing the story!
THEN we found out they were NOT biological parents!
Kane wrote
> You are a liar, Greg, and this is perfect example.
Yer a cathartic nutcase!
Greg wrote
> What would you do if we find out this girl's
> DRAMATIC story was a scam?
Kane wrote
> I'd damn her for doing it, just like I do you, Greg.
Megalomania again?
You have no power to damn diddly you arrogant bag of puss.
Kane wrote
> And you've seen me excoriate the guilty
You self flatulating wind bag! You're not God.
Kane wrote
> WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO
> BE GUILTY, GREG, every single time.
You mean after it's a perfectly SAFE bandwagon to jump on?
How BOLD of you! <grin>
Kane wrote
> Regardless of WHO they are.
Roight You mean those molesters caught working in Child Protection?
Greg wrote
> You KNOW teenagers are capable of much worse than that!
Kane wrote
> I know you are capable of robbing a bank. After all, it's mostly men,
> mostly young to middle aged men and you are one or more of those.
>
> I notice, so far, I've seen no media release you've taken up bank
> robbery. Please stay straight.
>
> Now IF you have proof the girl is running a scam, OR you find a story
> that even suggests she is PLEASE POST IT HERE, and I will be influenced
> by it, appropriately and feel anything from annoyed to pissed that a kid
> would run a scam about abuse. BY PARENTS, STEP PARENTS, ADOPTIVE
> PARENTS, FOSTER PARENTS, ANY PERSONS IN LOCO
> PARENTIS TO THE CHILD, OR THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
How about the two girls who were out after curfew and
to cover their lateness accused a homeless man
from a park of stalking or fondling them? It took cops
6 months (with him in jail) to figure out there were
giant holes in their story.
Should we look into the archives to see your damnation of them?
Kane wrote
> Why, you might ask?
>
> Well, because for OTHER kids that ARE being abused, their story might
> not be believed because of her, and pissants like you will help create
> that aura of disbelief that abused children so often have to face when
> they try to tell someone about it.
Yes, innocense or guilt truly comes down to a POLITICAL environment
and an attitude, having not a damn thing to do with facts.
That works for you as long as the politics and attitude work in your
favor,
but if the politics and attitude swing away from agreeing with your
"hang em all guilty or not" attitude, then you are in distress.
Kane wrote
> Your response here shows once again the level
> of morals and ethics you enjoy.
It's called innocent until proven guilty. It's the law.
Hardly immoral or unethical.
Presumption of guilt may not stand much longer!
Kane wrote
> When you find out she WAS abused what are YOU going
> to do, Greg? Are you going to apologize for bad mouthing her?
> I doubt it. We'll see then, won't we.
It's not bad mouthing to presume innocense
and to be suspicious that accusations may be false.
0:->
> Greegor wrote:
>> While it may be unlikely, what will you do if this
>> turns on you the way the Boss case did?
>>
>> You played up the murder by parents for months
>> until we discovered they were ADOPTIVE.
>> (Getting a monthly check)
>> (Probably foster/adopters)
>
> Kane wrote
>> Did you see me try to apologize for them? Nope. It does not matter HOW a
>> person becomes a parent...if they kill they should be made to pay the
>> price.
>> You show us where I defended them, Greg. Go ahead.
>
> You never defended them, you kept rubbing it in that
> biological parents abuse kids, citing the story!
That some do.
> THEN we found out they were NOT biological parents!
That's nice. Did you see me excuse them then?
Do some biological parents abuse their children, and even kill them?
Why don't you quote and link to my posts on this subject to prove your
claim?
> Kane wrote
>> You are a liar, Greg, and this is perfect example.
>
> Yer a cathartic nutcase!
We were talking about you, Greg. Can you refute my claim you are a liar
and that this is a perfect example of an attempt by to mislead?
All YOU have to do to prove me wrong is post my actual comments, with a
link to the thread in google/Usenet. We can then SEE if I excused these
folks because they were not bio parents, or if I used them to claim that
most or all bio parents are unfit parents.
Go ahead, we'll wait patiently for you this time.
> Greg wrote
>> What would you do if we find out this girl's
>> DRAMATIC story was a scam?
>
> Kane wrote
>> I'd damn her for doing it, just like I do you, Greg.
>
> Megalomania again?
> You have no power to damn diddly you arrogant bag of puss.
Sure I do. Damn her for lying and making it harder for other kids to be
believed, IF SHE IS LYING.
See, there I did it. Obviously I have the power, just as you have the
power to damn CPS, which you do regularly.
You seem very out of touch with reality child. Get help.
> Kane wrote
>> And you've seen me excoriate the guilty
>
> You self flatulating wind bag! You're not God.
I made no such claim. Damning and excoriating is not confined only to
gods, stupid. You have been doing it for years. Did you think YOU were
God."
> Kane wrote
>> WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO
>> BE GUILTY, GREG, every single time.
>
> You mean after it's a perfectly SAFE bandwagon to jump on?
> How BOLD of you! <grin>
So, falsely accusing someone, or risking falsely accusing someone is
just being "safe?"
Gosh, and I thought it was a virtue.
I guess I have to become a nut case like you to be brave, eh?
> Kane wrote
>> Regardless of WHO they are.
>
> Roight You mean those molesters caught working in Child Protection?
How many have you found, Greg? In all the time you've posted here that
I've asked you to produce...I'VE FOUND MORE THAN YOU HAVE, and that's
not many.
> Greg wrote
>> You KNOW teenagers are capable of much worse than that!
>
> Kane wrote
>> I know you are capable of robbing a bank. After all, it's mostly men,
>> mostly young to middle aged men and you are one or more of those.
>>
>> I notice, so far, I've seen no media release you've taken up bank
>> robbery. Please stay straight.
>>
>> Now IF you have proof the girl is running a scam, OR you find a story
>> that even suggests she is PLEASE POST IT HERE, and I will be influenced
>> by it, appropriately and feel anything from annoyed to pissed that a kid
>> would run a scam about abuse. BY PARENTS, STEP PARENTS, ADOPTIVE
>> PARENTS, FOSTER PARENTS, ANY PERSONS IN LOCO
>> PARENTIS TO THE CHILD, OR THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
>
> How about the two girls who were out after curfew and
> to cover their lateness accused a homeless man
> from a park of stalking or fondling them? It took cops
> 6 months (with him in jail) to figure out there were
> giant holes in their story.
Yep. So? Wouldn't it be strange were I to say there are NO teens that
lie? Ever seen me say that?
>
> Should we look into the archives to see your damnation of them?
>
Sure go ahead. If I did not what would it prove, UNLESS I directly
excused them? Or do you wish to have some more of your no-comment
incidences examined?
Would you like my opinion of the girls that did that?
I think they are troubled kids that need better parenting and that they
should pay the price legally for what they did. We can't do a lot about
the first issue, but my guess is they did get charged, deservedly.
Do you even know if they were or not?
When you bring up something to attempt to malign someone you might go to
the trouble of finding out more facts so that you can be effective in
argument.
> Kane wrote
>> Why, you might ask?
>>
>> Well, because for OTHER kids that ARE being abused, their story might
>> not be believed because of her, and pissants like you will help create
>> that aura of disbelief that abused children so often have to face when
>> they try to tell someone about it.
>
> Yes, innocense or guilt truly comes down to a POLITICAL environment
> and an attitude, having not a damn thing to do with facts.
Completely insane rant, factually empty. Innocence or guilt, that is
having lied or not, DOES have a political element to it...the societal
impact of children NOT being believed when they have been abused.
> That works for you as long as the politics and attitude work in your
> favor,
My "favor" is to reduce the incidence of child abuse, but NOT accepting
conditions that suppress the reality of it happening. At least as
pertains to this conversation.
> but if the politics and attitude swing away from agreeing with your
> "hang em all guilty or not" attitude, then you are in distress.
I am? Why don't I feel distressed?
Are you suggesting to claim, or is it pretending to suggest to claim? (R
R R R ) that I don't like it if children lie about abuse, saying it
happened when it didn't.
If so you are quite correct. And I just explained in the past post and
this one why.
How is it you have NOTHING to say about the risk to other children such
lies can create by encouraging disbelief in people when children that
have been abused try to disclose it?
> Kane wrote
>> Your response here shows once again the level
>> of morals and ethics you enjoy.
>
> It's called innocent until proven guilty. It's the law.
> Hardly immoral or unethical.
Ah, Greg. That IS what I was talking about.
YOU want to claim children are lying without having proof of their
innocence or guilt. Is that not true?
If not, Usenet has a large number of your posts that strongly suggest
otherwise. Think before you answer.
> Presumption of guilt may not stand much longer!
Then why do YOU use it so much in your accusations?
> Kane wrote
>> When you find out she WAS abused what are YOU going
>> to do, Greg? Are you going to apologize for bad mouthing her?
>> I doubt it. We'll see then, won't we.
>
> It's not bad mouthing to presume innocense
You presume guilt in HER.
> and to be suspicious that accusations may be false.
You presumed guilt in HER.
That she lied. Is that not correct?
Is that "brave" of you, as you suggest in a prior statement in this
post, where you accuse me of not taking a risk by virtue of not calling
someone guilty or innocent until it's proven?
When I say you delude yourself, Greg, I am not just attacking you, as
you seem to think. Son, you DO delude yourself with these strange
thinking errors that seem to come right out of the Douggy and other's
anti-CPS, anti-government ranter's playbook.
Or you were that way before. Sure a lot of evidence of a strong
possibility for both.
Or are you pretending to claim you are not?
Greegor
0:->
> Kane, Please stop trying to distract from the question.
I did not do so. You are lying.
> Greegor wrote:
>> While it may be unlikely, what will you do if this
>> turns on you the way the Boss case did?
I told you exactly what I would do.
And here is the post you "pretend to claim" you are answering but of
course are NOT and trying, yourself, to distract from MY questions of
YOU, asking you to prove I defended the Boss's.
Go for it, stupid:
.......
> Greegor wrote:
>> Greegor wrote:
>>> While it may be unlikely, what will you do if this
>>> turns on you the way the Boss case did?
>>>
Greegor
> Did you see me try to apologize for them? Nope. It does not matter HOW a
> person becomes a parent...if they kill they should be made to pay the
> price. You show us where I defended them, Greg. Go ahead.
Greg wrote (September 15)
> You never defended them, you kept rubbing it in that
> biological parents abuse kids, citing the story!
> THEN we found out they were NOT biological parents!
Kane wrote (September 19)
> asking you to prove I defended the Boss's.
I never claimed you said such a thing!
You keep getting this backwards!
Back when the Boss case was in the news
you gloated about them as an example of
how HORRIBLE bioligical parents can be!
THEN we found out they were getting
adoption subsidies for four (?) kids.
0:->
And YOU keep refusing to refer readers to the messages you are claiming
say that.
I did NOT say "bioligical"[sic] parents once, to the best of my memory.
I happen to consider adoptive families as "parents" and rarely SAY
adoptive unless it is an issue. I would use the word "parents."
Did I KNOW they were adoptive?
Of course not.
What did I say when I did know they were, Greg?
> THEN we found out they were getting
> adoption subsidies for four (?) kids.
Did I let them off the hook because they were adoptive parents?
Did I make an excuse for them? Did I say they were better than or worse
than bio parents that abuse?
Now don't lie, because I KNOW what I said.
And what I didn't say.
YOU are the one that's getting it backward, Greg, by simply claiming
something that isn't true. That's called lying, or in your case it could
be bad memory hence ignorance.
Why don't you go LOOK stupid, and maybe you can catch me at something
you can gloat over.
Which IS what you are attempting here based on your CLAIM with no proof.
Greg, you are lying again.
I would never claim that abusive adoptive parents are in any way
different than abusive bio parents.
You've been trying to pin this bullshit on me for years, that I have a
bias against bio parents. It's a fuckin' lie and I want you to stop it now.
I have said repeatedly that I believe the majority, the vast majority of
parents are good parents and not abusive.
We deal in the small minority here in this newsgroup that ARE abusive
parents, Greg, and when I criticize them it's for their abusiveness, not
for being bio parents, foster parents, or adoptive parents. Anyone that
abuses a child in their care, whether teacher, therapist, day care
provider, baby sitter, or any kind of parent is guilty of exactly the
same thing.
Are you so without argument that you have to keep lying like this? Is
your issue so hard to defend that you cannot defend it without lying?
I have no problem with the use of ad hom, as you know, by either of us,
but you do it WITHOUT argument on the issues.
In this case, by pretending to claim to argue about an issue that you
LIE ABOUT TO BE ABLE TO.
Now go look, stupid.
Greegor
alt.support.child-protective-services
and search for Boss Iowa inside of this newsgroup.
Some responses removed because there were not about this story.
Some others not listed here because they are too SIMILAR.
Remsen, Iowa : Lisa Marie (Boss) update
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/150f187594624ad5/be7c02f3ce67b368?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=1>
How many foster children were murdered by the Boss family? ... About 10
am that morning, Schneider was able to contact Wilshire and spoke with
Boss. ... - Oct 17 2002, 4:02 pm by Fern5827 - 2 messages - 2 authors
REMSEN IOWA: Boss trial starts today
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/562e970e95a465ae/cf1fa7c470f8d8e0?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=2>
... Do some hunting around the 'net...distressed falsely accused Iowa
parents. ... com>
http://209.41.184.21/partners/890/public/news395942.html Boss trial
starts ... - Nov 26 2002, 4:34 pm by Ron - 3 messages - 3 authors
Remsen Iowa: Lisa Boss returned to Iowa
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/c745f56605065328/defff94c0a16e824?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=3>
http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/News/Local/44273046BB25FE1086256B3C006223F
4.html Lisa Boss returned to Iowa By Michele Linck Journal staff writer
LE MARS ... - Jan 10 2002, 5:28 pm by HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 1 message
- 1 author
Remsen, Iowa: David Boss: It didn't happen that way
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/632313b378269fd/d3f82a88d832edfe?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=4>
... David Boss said the couple hoped, when they got to Iowa, to get
assistance and get the four adopted boys removed from the home. ... -
Dec 14 2002, 8:14 am by f...@free.all - 1 message - 1 author
Remsen, Iowa: File petition on behalf of Boss children :
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/63378762f1bf8a74/34b5bbeb70b565c9?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=5>
... Claxton, and David Boss. The hearing is scheduled for 11:30 am
Friday, March 1. CHINA petitions must be filed within 20 days of when
the Iowa Department of ... - Feb 2 2002, 4:08 pm by Fern5827 - 2
messages - 2 authors
Remsen, Iowa: Lisa Boss seeks location change for trial
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/9c7a54adfb155642/93def941cb178705?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=6>
... <chuckle> The bitter person belches: Subject: Re: Remsen, Iowa:
Lisa Boss seeks location change for trial From:
pohakuyakok...@subdimension.com (Kane) Date: 8 ... - Aug 24 2003,
10:12 pm by familyf...@cpswatchlive.com - 5 messages - 3 authors
Remsen Iowa: The Boss' Children: What happens next?
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/ec2a368be5dfc74e/631f012ce9d65667?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=7>
... 02 By Marsha L. Melnichak The children of Lisa and Donald L. Boss
Jr.-- whose ... are the focus for an ever-growing number of
professionals in Iowa, Michigan and ... - Jan 10 2002, 11:27 pm by
HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 2 messages - 2 authors
Remsen, Iowa: Claims of abuse, racism
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/3a22ad78c9cadd14/b4c3f23e40412864?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=8>
... "All of the kids are in serious trouble, and they all are going to
need counseling." Both Donald and Lisa Boss are jailed in Iowa in lieu
of $250,000 bonds. ... - Jan 15 2002, 5:57 pm by free_kaler - 3
messages - 3 authors
Remsen Iowa: Bartolozzi tells of lies, abuse in Boss case ...
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/1bff662b84b12b52/c956471f758708a1?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=9>
How many fost-adopt children did the Boss Family own? From Michigan
(FIA) to Iowa (DHS).. Thanks for update. From: HowdoUsleep@nite ... -
May 12 2002, 8:55 am by Fern5827 - 3 messages - 3 authors
Remsen, Iowa: Donald Boss: Life, in six minutes
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/4d0ef80d3bf4cdd3/af8a3b820a2c5fb7?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=10>
(Snip) appeal within 30 days. From the judge’s first words Monday
to the gavel’s ring, six minutes had elapsed. 6 minutes is about
right. ... - Dec 20 2002, 2:06 pm by Ron - 3 messages - 3 authors
Remsen, Iowa: Evidence against Lisa Boss reviewed
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/20978c6b95f48e88/6e35550f11784d20?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=11>
... Lisa Boss has indicated a possible defense. Early in the
investigation, she told authorities she fled Iowa because she was
afraid of her husband. - Dec 13 2002, 3:46 pm by f...@free.all - 1
message - 1 author
REMSEN, IOWA; BOSS' & THE DHS
</group/alt.activism.children/browse_frm/thread/71f4da011534d036/b581240dce21b1bb?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=12>
... Lisa Boss, the boy's adoptive mother, is under 24-hour
surveillance, as a material witness in the case. No charges are pending
in Iowa against Lisa Boss. ... - Jan 29 2002, 10:53 am by
HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 1 message - 1 author
Remsen Iowa : "Judge blocks from murder trial some statements ...
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/293822bfc0fe780c/fa2e04e95f46481b?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=13>
... Donald Boss' trial on the Iowa charges is scheduled to begin July
9. ---- UNIONIZE FAMILIES NOW ... - May 31 2002, 1:42 pm by Fern5827 -
2 messages - 2 authors
REMSEN, IOWA: For the Boss', love wasn't enough
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/eb7d8d7a8abd9499/1cea4b4ffc9b3876?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=14>
... are in the care of the States of Iowa and Montana, and she finds
the whole thing just impossible to believe. Loretta, her husband,
Donald Boss, Sr., and their ... - Jan 16 2002, 12:05 pm by
HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 1 message - 1 author
Remsen Iowa: Child abuse-WELFARE FRAUD-$45.500.00
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/39f577de6c63bca9/8d8121a090d449e7?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=15>
... Plymouth County Sheriff Mike Van Otterloo said Monday afternoon
that arrangements were being made to bring Boss back to Iowa but gave
no details as to how or ... - Jan 8 2002, 6:05 pm by Fern5827 - 4
messages - 3 authors
Link to loads of Boss Family Iowa stories 1 page
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/75f38595f8968d59/42ec3cbfb60f5946?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=16>
Note that the Boss Family are accused of murder, welfare fraud, and
abuse. Also DHS in Iowa now begins to backpedal. http://miva ... - Mar
20 2002, 1:06 pm by Fern5827 - 1 message - 1 author
Remsen, Iowa: 'Mother' charged in beating death.
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/4663513c609d4cb3/ffe219175b45aa7b?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=17>
12/18/2002 Mother charged in boy's beating death
http://www.dmregister.com/news/ stories/c4788993/20019327.html Lisa
Boss' husband was sentenced to life in ... - Dec 18 2002, 1:35 pm by
Familyf...@free.all - 2 messages - 2 authors
REMSEN, IOWA: Lisa Boss released from jail
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/6be654ca7d727df7/092d88c27f41872c?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=18>
http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/890/public/news241729.html Lisa Boss
released from jail 01/21/02 By Marsha L. Melnichak Email this story to
a friend Lisa ... - Jan 22 2002, 5:09 pm by HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 1
message - 1 author
Remsen, Iowa: Seek insurance records in Boss case
</group/misc.kids/browse_frm/thread/354baeeedab171c6/91991e3232979951?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=19>
http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/890/public/news247438.html Seek
insurance records in Boss case 01/31/02 By Marsha L. Melnichak Email
this story to a friend ... - Feb 1 2002, 12:52 pm by
HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 1 message - 1 author
FW: The Boss' kids what happens to them
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/54c3e7a7e9c20a65/4fac7088b314d182?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=20>
Subject: Remsen Iowa: The Boss' Children: What happens next? From:
HowdoUsl...@nite.com Date: 1/10/2002 11:27 PM Eastern Standard ... -
Jan 13 2002, 2:26 pm by Fern5827 - 1 message - 1 author
REMSEN, IOWA: LISA BOSS JAILED AS A WITNESS
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/a67f3c5a7889178e/6d69fa329e92560f?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=21>
I find it very interesting that the family were allowed to have 9
children, living in their residence. Kickbacks to CPS, perhaps? ... -
Jan 18 2002, 6:30 pm by Fern5827 - 2 messages - 2 authors
Remsen: Missing mom, kids found in Montana
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/4d33ee5e042d5229/8883829b64ea7a1e?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=22>
... Local/B359EDB106621C3386256B38007569A5 .html Missing mom, kids
found in Montana By Mike Koehler Journal staff writer LE MARS, Iowa --
Lisa Boss, a material ... - Jan 6 2002, 11:28 am by Dennis<freekaler@
- 1 message - 1 author
Remsen Iowa: Murder-welfare fraud-cages-night sticks- racial ...
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/e38c2a34aa93fe90/d30387e3572f1572?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=23>
... His remains have not been found. Siegel said state police are
waiting to see whether Iowa police charge Lisa Boss in connection with
the murder. ... - Jan 9 2002, 6:47 pm by HowdoUsl...@nite.com - 1
message - 1 author
Unfortunate story Boss wife also pleads guilty foster death
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/1e65b9330f0318e2/533f0a3286f99653?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=24>
... Timothy Boss was one of four adopted children who lived with Donald
Boss and Green and their seven biological children in the small
northwest Iowa town of ... - Nov 13 2003, 10:20 am by Fern5827 - 1
message - 1 author
REMSEN IOWA: Sheriff: We're plugging away
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/6c4a4bed433bcb82/2ddcad4e0e0bbae3?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=25>
... in 1999, and mother Lisa Boss and 10 of their children moved back
to Jackson in September. She and nine of the children returned to Iowa
after Christmas and ... - Jan 23 2002, 4:57 pm by HowdoUsl...@nite.com
- 1 message - 1 author
MI FIA pd out 40K yr to family where boy murdered
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/186fe224e593aa24/b09b07a0f830512d?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=26>
... We're investigating allegations the children were kept in cages -
animal cages." Already, Iowa authorities have charged Donald Boss Jr.,
37, with first-degree ... - Jan 11 2002, 4:26 pm by Fern5827 - 1
message - 1 author
The Unreported Truth of Foster Deaths
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/43c916a87b15d26c/818e892b0631ac8d?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=27>
... by the Fosters. The BOSS family here in Iowa became known to you a
few years ago. Remember? Why was that not done? Because, the ... - Oct
18 2004, 4:35 pm by Greg Hanson - 12 messages - 5 authors
Judge seals warrants in Remsen boy's death
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/c92d75e696714995/d7321e287fd665ee?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=28>
... trial. Timothy was one of 11 children of Donald and Lisa Boss, who
moved to northwest Iowa from Michigan about three years ago. The ... -
Jan 15 2002, 6:11 pm by free_kaler - 1 message - 1 author
Phoenix, AZ, Parents arrested after twins, 5, caged 'like ...
</group/alt.true-crime/browse_frm/thread/b04d570b99bef5fa/3bab07a640d34d3c?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=29>
... a parent to pass for, etc. (Croneyism) Family Free mentioned the
BOSS family from Remsen Iowa. That story was reported over and ... -
Aug 26 2003, 7:29 pm by Greg Hanson - 14 messages - 8 authors
Fw: Remsen, IA- Boss Kids-what happens next?
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/f9d08124544f8689/80021b1245abc2b2?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=30>
Subject: Re: Remsen Iowa: The Boss' Children: What happens next? From:
fern5...@aol.com (Fern5827) Date: 1/13/2002 2:24 PM Eastern ... - Jan
14 2002, 8:50 am by Fern5827 - 1 message - 1 author
Mother Charged with Son's Death
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/b2211596fdd88830/ac2179c03eb6da8c?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=31>
... this woman was NOT the bio parent? That's what you guys did about
the BOSS murder in Iowa! Hung it around the necks of bio parents ... -
May 28 2005, 9:42 pm by Dan Sullivan - 19 messages - 5 authors
Remsen: from the Sioux City Journal (1 5 02)
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/b249658ee0de818c/843852b99b531948?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=32>
... Roger Munns, a spokesman for the Iowa Department of Human Services,
said the agency had no contact with the Boss family and there had been
no abuse complaints. ... - Jan 5 2002, 5:36 pm by HowdoUsl...@nite.com
- 1 message - 1 author
"... with murder in the death of his son."
</group/alt.support.foster-parents/browse_frm/thread/f0d48b9a756d8ae1/dd2157f196a61d31?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=33>
... the requested samples are reasonable and will help determine
whether Boss committed that felony. As such and given the mandatory
language of the Iowa Code, the ... - Aug 11 2002, 11:51 am by
free_ka...@Lbogrease.com - 1 message - 1 author
Nassau County Coalition on Child Abuse & Neglect.. Neither ...
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/7303d48d9ad421be/1a676b6d44c9a5d3?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=34>
... of caseworkers Geoffrey Rantz Curio Jones Dupuy family and the
Judges ruling in IL Logan Marr and Kevin W. Concannon RILYA Boss family
in Iowa Standard of ... - Apr 16 2005, 6:20 pm by Dan Sullivan - 8
messages - 3 authors
Mom arrested on child-neglect charge - Check out the picts of ...
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/fb4658d7b170bc58/2f8ac7f367c1371a?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=35>
... Even the BOSS family here in Iowa was wrongly presumed to be a BIO
family, and the fact they had Foster/Adopted the kids was never
mentioned in the press until ... - Jan 17 2005, 3:53 pm by Greegor -
53 messages - 10 authors
WDNNSCPS
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/fd53a21bcaf3d30f/d373168089c89425?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=36>
... This is the game you and Dan ran about the Boss family here in
Iowa! "Ran?" "Game?" You kept harping about bio parents abusing their
own kids! ... - Jun 27, 5:15 pm by 0:-> - 8 messages - 3 authors
the enemy isn't the other guy posting..remember?
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/3d871b2956598409/5cc7ebbcf69a81a7?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=37>
... The trouble is CPS targets the easy families and shuns the ones who
are really abusive. Like the Boss Family in Iowa who murdered their
adoptees. ... - Mar 19 2003, 4:23 pm by Fern5827 - 4 messages - 4
authors
Hey Fern! Please go into detail...
</group/alt.parenting.spanking/browse_frm/thread/e601df8ce2b1e96e/4eeedb4a3f8d7eb2?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=40>
... Pohakuyakokane is actually your boss at CPSWatch..RRRRR R. Still
... level animal cruelty: * California * Colorado * Florida * Illinois
* Iowa * Maine * Maryland ... - Jan 18 2004, 10:50 am by Kane - 14
messages - 4 authors
IL DCFS 7 adopted kids kept in cold basement FW
</group/alt.support.child-protective-services/browse_frm/thread/7e7c2a09bdd19f16/1056d5fdc047fd2f?lnk=gst&q=Boss+Iowa&rnum=42>
... Where's Ron? Also in which state did the Boss debacle originate?
Family moved quite a bit--think it was Michigan to Iowa. Perhaps
Illinois, too? ... - Jan 29 2003, 2:44 pm by bobb - 20 messages - 11
authors
In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some
entries very similar to the 44 already displayed.
0:->
are so much more prone to crime, right? 0;->
Where was CPS?
Why didn't they intervene?
How is it CPS let's these slip through the cracks and just takes the
children of innocent people?
And notice, the other child wasn't hurt. Why did the state take the
other child and violate the mother's constitutional rights?
And after all, she should be let off because "children are 8 to ten
times more likely to be abused in foster care than at home with the bio
parents," isn't that right, Greg?
http://www.katu.com/news/4415002.html
Salem teen charged with killing her baby
Story Published: Oct 16, 2006 at 6:39 PM PST
Story Updated: Oct 16, 2006 at 6:41 PM PST
SALEM, Ore. (AP) - A teenage mother has been charged with murdering her
5-month-old son, authorities said.
Denisse Montserrat Jimenez-Eugenio, 17, of Salem was being held without
bail Monday, said Darin Tweedt, a Marion County deputy district
attorney.
The baby, Kevin Salazar-Olmos, died Friday at Doernbecher Children's
Hospital in Portland, a week after Jimenez-Eugenio took him to Salem
Memorial Hospital with life-threatening injuries. Jimenez-Eugenio had
been charged with assault and criminal mistreatment before the boy's
death brought the more serious allegation, Tweedt said.
Tweedt said the mother's other child, a 1-year-old daughter, was OK,
and has been taken into protective custody.
Tweedt said there was a pattern of abuse involving the baby boy,
though, to his knowledge, the Department of Human Services had not
received a complaint about the mother.
The mother and her children lived with a man at a house in northeast
Salem. Tweedt said the man, whose name has not been released, is not
the father of the children and not been charged in the case.
(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
Find this article at:
http://www.katu.com/news/4415002.html
Copyright ©2006 Television Station Group
0:->
Posted on Sun, Oct. 15, 2006
Inquirer Investigation: 'Bury Your Mistakes'
By Ken Dilanian and John Sullivan
INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
In September, five months shy of her second birthday, Alayiah Turman
was pummeled to death after she interrupted a video game.
Marrieon Currie, 11 weeks old in January, took his final breaths as he
was being doused in hot water, thrown down stairs, and beaten with a
mop handle.
Bryanna Redmond, a skinny 2-year-old known as "Princess," died last
year from a punch that split her spine.
Before they were killed - each by a parent, police say - all three
children had come under the scrutiny of the city's child-protection
agency, the Department of Human Services, which has the power to remove
children from abusive homes. In each case, relatives or neighbors say
they saw signs of danger. DHS either never saw those signs or
discounted them.
Three years after a string of blunders by DHS were widely blamed for
failing to prevent the torture-murder of toddler Porchia Bennett, an
Inquirer investigation has found that young children are still
regularly abused to death after coming to the attention of DHS.
Although 3-year-old Porchia's death prompted the department to solicit
expert advice on how to improve its investigative procedures, agency
officials have failed to act on most of those recommendations.
>From 2003 through 2005, at least 20 children died of abuse or neglect
after coming to the attention of DHS, including 10 just last year,
according to department records. Those numbers were coaxed out of the
agency after four weeks of repeated requests.
In recent interviews, DHS Commissioner Cheryl Ransom-Garner
acknowledged that the agency had made mistakes, but she declined to
discuss them, citing confidentiality rules.
"I think DHS is doing a great job," she said. "Our staff do a heroic
job every day, working to save Philadelphia's children. One child death
is too many. And from every death we do a review to determine what can
we do differently."
Those reviews, however, are secret.
"In Philadelphia, you can bury your mistakes," said Richard Gelles,
dean of the University of Pennsylvania's School of Social Work.
Ransom-Garner declined to discuss details, but said DHS reviews had
found that no policies or procedures were violated in six of the eight
cases The Inquirer examined. In two of the cases, DHS could not answer
the question by the time this article went to print.
There always will be deaths that child-protection authorities could not
have foreseen or prevented. And the agency is in much better shape than
two decades ago, when a class-action lawsuit forced it to improve.
But experts who consulted for DHS in recent years told The Inquirer
that the agency's system for evaluating risk is inadequate. They said
the agency still had not addressed key failings uncovered after Porchia
Bennett's death.
"Their investigators are not being given a policy for how to make
decisions or an understanding of what risks can be tolerated," said
Gelles, a former DHS consultant who became so disillusioned that he now
serves as an expert witness for lawyers suing the agency.
Mayor Street, walking into City Hall yesterday to attend a chess
lecture, declined to answer questions about the performance of his
human-services department.
"I don't have any comment," he said. "I don't have any comment on that
at this time."
In the three cases with the most extensive public records about the
department's actions, an Inquirer review of court documents and
interviews with relatives and neighbors found that people had concerns
about the children's welfare before they died - red flags that could
have been apparent to inquiring caseworkers.
Five other cases, where there is less public information about DHS
actions, raise questions about whether the agency could have done more
to prevent the deaths. The Inquirer examined only cases in which the
agency's involvement could be determined from other sources, because
DHS would not disclose which of the dead children it had checked on.
The Inquirer found:
In the Bryanna Redmond punching death, the toddler was killed after the
agency closed a case involving her mentally disabled mother, who had
talked of abandoning the baby at birth. A grandmother testified in
court that she had asked DHS for help, to no avail.
Marrieon Currie's mother, Lea, who had a history of mental and physical
problems, told neighbors that she was hearing demons. DHS had been
providing her services and left the infant in her custody. But
neighbors, who tried to help with the baby, told The Inquirer that she
was incapable of caring even for her dog.
When Alayiah Turman was beaten to death last month, DHS had been
investigating an abuse allegation. The agency said it had not detected
any injury; Alayiah's grandmother said she had seen bruises on the
child, and the medical examiner found a healed arm fracture during the
autopsy.
A video game unplugged
Police say Alayiah's father, Tyrone Spellman, confessed to killing his
daughter after she pulled the plug while he was playing Tom Clancy's
Ghost Recon, a violent combat video game.
Ransom-Garner told The Inquirer on Sept. 13 - before the newspaper
launched its inquiry into child deaths - that the agency had been
investigating the family.
A few weeks before Alayiah was killed, the commissioner said, an
anonymous caller reported that an adult was yelling at a 2-year-old,
and that there were holes in the floor of the home. The next day, she
said, a caseworker interviewed Alayiah's mother, Mia Turman, and
inspected the child. There were no bruises, Ransom-Garner said, and the
toddler appeared happy and playful. She said there had been no other
complaints.
The agency made another surprise visit a few days later. The caseworker
asked Turman whether anyone else lived in the house, in order to
perform a background check on each adult. The caseworker took Turman's
word that no men lived there, Ransom-Garner said.
Neighbors and relatives told The Inquirer, however, that Spellman had
been born at the Brewerytown rowhouse where Alayiah was killed. He was
living there with his brother and another relative, Keith Walker.
Turman had moved to Spellman's house only recently, said neighbors,
many of whom say he is innocent.
Walker told The Inquirer that he had tried to revive the little girl
when he arrived home that night. Detectives later told him that there
were obvious signs of past abuse, he said. Alayiah's grandmother
Marvine Turman told The Inquirer that she remembered seeing bruises.
Asked about that, Ransom-Garner said she could not discuss the case,
even though she had talked about it previously.
Asked whether caseworkers were instructed to interview neighbors during
their investigations, she said that they were not prohibited from doing
so, but that there were no specific guidelines about it.
A shattering death
Alayiah died three years after a killing that was supposed to change
the culture at the Department of Human Services.
In August 2003, 3-year-old Porchia Bennett died after enduring months
of abuse at the hands of a couple her mother paid to care for her. DHS
acknowledged it erred in the case.
First it lost track of the family before Porchia was born, even though
the agency had not resolved a previous abuse investigation.
Then, three days before she died, a DHS worker failed to investigate an
abuse report at her house.
In the aftermath, DHS did make some changes. It overhauled the way
caseworkers search for families, authorizing the use of databases and
private investigators.
So why are children in its system still dying?
One answer, experts say, is that while the agency fixed its tracking
system, it failed to adopt proposals for significant changes in how it
investigates abuse and weighs risk to children.
As a result, the agency still depends on the judgment of individual
caseworkers - some of whom are incompetent, according to DHS critic
Gelles.
After the Bennett case, then-Commissioner Alba Martinez hired several
consultants to examine and overhaul the agency's risk-assessment
procedures.
DHS officials said Friday that they might implement some of the
recommendations.
"This is a work in progress," Deputy Commissioner John McGee said.
Ransom-Garner said the agency was working to improve its systems on its
own timetable, consistent with state regulations. She also argued that
the Bennett case did not point to profound problems in how DHS
operated.
"What happened to Porchia Bennett, we looked at that case and said,
'Lessons learned, what do we need to do here?' " she said. "The system
was not broke."
Losing sleep
Ransom-Garner's predecessor, Martinez, struck a different tone when she
hired a Penn team led by Gelles, a nationally recognized child-welfare
expert, and Carol Wilson Spigner, a child-welfare official in the
Clinton administration.
"This was Alba's project, because she wanted to prevent another Porchia
Bennett," Gelles said. "She lost a lot of sleep over it."
Gelles said the DHS policy manual "said you should do this you should
do that, but it gave almost no guidance as to how."
That policy manual on investigations is still in place.
Gelles now believes the best way to change the agency is to fight it,
he said.
"I said to Cheryl, 'You can do this the easy way or the hard way: You
can change, or I'm going to sue you.' They've chosen to do it the hard
way," Gelles said.
In May, the Penn team handed over two major recommendations: a new
policy on investigating child fatalities, and a new policy on assessing
the safety of a child in a home.
The city has not adopted them.
John Goad, former deputy director of the Division of Child Protection
at the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, had a
similar experience.
He had helped engineer a turnaround in Chicago's system, where, he
said, reports of repeat child abuse fell by half. Martinez hired him to
evaluate her agency.
Goad said DHS workers had a difficult time deciding how to handle cases
and sometimes made the wrong decisions.
"Their decision-making structure is wanting," he said. "They tended to
lose focus on some things that pertain to child safety."
After visiting the city in 2003, Goad wrote 65 pages of guidelines and
definitions. His report included 14 scientifically determined factors
that contribute to a child being unsafe.
Ransom-Garner said the agency had improved its call-routing system, but
had not implemented Goad's other recommendations.
One year after Porchia died, McGee, then the agency's operations
director, said: "It's much less likely that a case like Porchia's will
happen again."
Not again
People knew Bryanna was in danger from the day she was born.
Nurses at Frankford Hospital-Torresdale Campus became concerned when
her mother, Viola Redmond, a 22-year-old with an IQ below 90, told them
that she didn't want the child.
"It was alarming. . . . She didn't pay any attention at all to the
baby," testified the social worker, Columbia Elmelhaoui.
Her testimony, and this account, is drawn from court documents in the
Viola Redmond murder case, interviews, and other public records. DHS
declined to comment on the case.
A DHS caseworker went to the hospital shortly after the birth in
January 2003. Three days later, the worker visited the home in the tidy
Crescentville section of Northeast Philadelphia where Viola Redmond was
living with her parents.
Along with baby Bryanna, Redmond was caring for a 16-month-old son,
Jaleel. She worked a cleaning job at the nearby IRS office.
The caseworker, Robin Goodwin, reported that Redmond seemed "mentally
retarded" and "childlike."
Though at risk, Bryanna would be OK, Goodwin decided, "because of the
fact that there are both maternal grandparents in the home." She did
not respond to a request for comment.
DHS referred the case to a private contractor, paid by taxpayers to
train Redmond in parenting skills, according to DHS records.
"Most of the time they came, [Viola] was at work," testified Rosetta
Redmond, the baby's grandmother, at her daughter's sentencing hearing.
On Dec. 8, 2004, DHS closed the case, deeming the children safe at the
grandparents' house.
Two months later, Viola Redmond and her boyfriend, Damor Davis, decided
to move into their own apartment.
Rosetta Redmond testified that she had repeatedly warned DHS that the
couple intended to move out. A caseworker promised to get back to her,
she said, but never did.
Not long afterward, Viola Redmond's sister, a parole officer, made an
anonymous call to DHS to report that "the child may have a broken bone
in her face."
The call arrived at the DHS hotline at 10:12 a.m. July 15.
It was too late.
Across town, Bryanna was buckled over in her bed, slipping into shock
after a death blow to her stomach.
Davis testified that he had found the child in that condition when he
returned home from work about 6 a.m., and met Viola on her way out the
door.
By 11:58 a.m. Bryanna was dead.
Ian Hood, a Philadelphia deputy medical examiner, testified that the
toddler had died of an injury more severe than all but one or two he
had seen in his career.
In a statement to detectives, Viola Redmond said she had punished
Bryanna for having a temper tantrum by punching her in the stomach.
On the day Bryanna died, a DHS caseworker named Lekisha Harvey tried to
investigate the sister's abuse complaint. But somehow the address had
gotten garbled.
It took DHS three days to search a public-assistance database, which
turned up Viola's former address on Reach Street in the Northeast.
The judge in the case, Benjamin Lerner, commented from the bench that
the case raised questions about the agency.
"Who is in charge, who gives little children to people who are so
obviously, absolutely completely incapable of taking care of them?"
Lerner wondered.
>From the bench
Lerner, who has been dealing with DHS for decades, as a public defender
and then a jurist, argues that the agency is not aggressive enough in
removing children from potentially abusive homes.
"I don't think the system has changed at all" since Porchia Bennett's
death, he said in a recent interview. "I believe that we have to be
more forceful earlier in children's lives when we see that they are
simply not being taken care of. I believe that we have to be more
accepting of the fact that good motives are not sufficient in
parenting, and that many people lack either the will or the ability to
raise children in a safe and healthy environment."
DHS is credited with improving significantly since its worst days in
the 1980s, when a series of scandals led to a 1990 class-action lawsuit
by the American Civil Liberties Union and other advocacy groups.
In 2000, outsider Martinez took the helm and quickly won high marks for
a variety of changes. The next year, DHS settled the class action,
known as the Baby Neal case. The settlement allowed advocates to audit
how the agency handled a sampling of cases for two years. The
arrangement expired in 2003.
But experts say the Philadelphia agency remains seriously flawed, with
a staff of uneven quality overburdened by caseloads that can exceed 30,
nearly double the 17 that national standards recommend.
"In general, they've done a lot of great things at the department, and
it's a totally different place than when we sued them," said Frank
Cervone, who runs an agency that provides free legal advocacy for
children. Cervone was part of the 1990 lawsuit and is among the city's
foremost DHS experts.
"That said," he added, "they remain a public agency that has a lot of
problems."
Hearing demons
Almost everyone who knew Lea Currie had serious doubts about whether
the 25-year-old could care for her newborn son, Marrieon.
"She was hearing demons," said neighbor Felix Cruz, 33, who lived just
two doors away from Currie on Charles Street in the East Frankford
section of the city.
"She was off-balance," he added, echoing nearly a dozen others
interviewed on the block. "She shouldn't have been raising that kid on
her own."
Currie had tried to kill herself at 17, and she suffered from cerebral
palsy, a muscular disorder that left her barely able to walk up the
stairs.
Yet after Marrieon was born last fall, DHS decided to leave the baby in
her home and send a contract worker to provide support services,
neighbors said.
Three months later, Marrieon was dead.
On Jan. 23, Currie held the infant under hot water, threw him down a
flight of stairs, and beat him with a mop handle, according to court
records.
She quickly confessed and was charged with murder, records show.
Currie told neighbor Amelia Lewis, 35, that demons had confined her and
the baby to an upstairs bedroom, Lewis said.
Neighbors said Currie was incapable of even caring for her dog, which
they eventually took away.
"She was always calling people to buy food for the dog when she
remembered," said Paul Wons, 45, who worked with Currie's mother and
now lives in the Currie house.
Awaiting trial, Currie has been committed to Norristown State Hospital.
Psychiatrists initially ruled her unfit for court, noting that she had
"stopped eating and drinking" and had been "soiling herself and lying
in her own menstrual fluid." Court records refer to her as "severely
mentally disabled."
Timika Bowens, 29, who lives across the street, has known Currie most
of her life. She can't understand how DHS left Marrieon in her care.
"DHS killed that baby," she said.
Bowens and four other residents recalled that in a meeting several
weeks before the baby died, a DHS worker asked neighbors to care for
the child.
"Who would leave it on the neighborhood to care for a child?" asked
Timika Bowens' mother, Irene.
DHS officials said that it wasn't their policy to ask neighbors to care
for a child, and that if that had happened, it would have been
inappropriate.
Neighbor Blanche Jacobs, 41, recalled a day when Currie made a
startling confession to her. " 'I don't know how to love my baby,' "
Jacobs said Currie told her. " 'Ms. Blanche, please tell me how.' "
In one of her few references to a specific case, Ransom-Garner insisted
that neighbors had not relayed their concerns to DHS.
"People have a lot to say after a child death," she said.
But in interviews, neighbors said it should have been clear to anyone,
after a few moments of conversation with Currie, that the young mother
was in trouble.
"Anyone who would see her, who talks to her, interacts with her, would
know right away she couldn't care for that child," Timika Bowens said.
"They should have done their job."
Contact staff writer Ken Dilanian at 215-854-4779 or
kdil...@phillynews.com.
© 2006 Philadelphia Inquirer and wire service sources. All Rights
Reserved.
http://www.philly.com
0:->
Fascinating stuff out of Canada.
http://www.canadiancrc.com/Infanticide.htm
[[[ Each lead has a clickable link for the whole story. ]]]
Infanticide and women who kill their children
Role of CAS questioned after Barrie slayings
The Globe and Mail (Canada's largest national newspaper), ANTHONY
REINHART AND CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD, October 12, 2006
The mother accused of first-degree murder in the deaths of her two
little girls last week was admitted to a psychiatric ward of a local
hospital as a suicidal patient just five months earlier.
Frances Elaine Campione, The Globe and Mail has confirmed, was admitted
to the Royal Victoria Hospital in Barrie, Ont., for an emergency
assessment.
The 31-year-old's history in an active file at the Children's Aid
Society of Simcoe County raises alarming questions about why the agency
returned her two vulnerable youngsters - Serena, 3, and Sophia, who
was just a year old - to her care and what workers and supervisors
were doing to monitor her.
Ms. Campione was admitted to hospital early last June after taking an
overdose of medication and leaving a suicide note. She was discharged
June 30, and within a week or so, The Globe has learned, had managed to
regain custody of the little girls and had them back living with her.
Ms. Campione was discharged the same day that another mother who was on
the ward at the same time walked out of the Royal Vic - but with a
battery of support services in place. [full story]
Sins of the mother
National Post ( one of Canada's 2 national newspapers), by Barbara Kay,
Wednesday, October 11, 2006
We have heard the story before. The names change, the province changes,
the particulars of the custody case change, the age of the dead child
changes, but some things stay the same when a mother kills her own
children: Any objective observer can see the tragedy coming a mile
away,
the children are not removed from her toxic embrace before it happens,
and the mother is not only insufficiently punished (if at all) for the
crime, but receives public sympathy on the assumption she was driven to
it by forces beyond her control.
Last week, Frances Elaine Campione, 31, locked in a year-long custody
battle with her estranged husband Leonardo, was charged with the murder
of their two baby daughters, one-year-old Sophia, and three-year-old
Serena. Whatever the truth turns out to be in this case, warning signs
had abounded: The Children's Aid Society of Simcoe County, Ont. had
kept an open file on this family for some time; former neighbours
portrayed the mother as unstable and possibly suicidal; some described
bizarre and frightening public behaviour; she had been hospitalized for
treatment on several occasions.
In the past five years, there have been several comparable tragedies.
In 2003, 13-month-old Zachary Turner was drugged and drowned in
Newfoundland by his mother, Shirley, while she was out on bail for the
third time on charges of murdering Zachary's father. Then there was
Toronto baby Jordan Heikamp, who in 2001 starved to death in his
mother's care under the eyes of the Catholic Children's Aid Society (no
jail time), and Toronto baby Sara Cao, abused to death in 2001 by her
mother Elizabeth (again no jail time -- has any murdering mom ever done
jail time in Canada?). According to Christie Blatchford, who followed
the case, Sara's mother was "treated by the system, and in the main by
the media, as a pitiful [woman], worthy of sympathy." [full story]
Mothers kill as often as fathers do
The Globe and Mail, by TIMOTHY APPLEBY, October 5, 2006
Mother-on-child homicides are rare in Canada but far from unknown.
Twenty-seven of the 37 children slain countrywide in 2004 -- 73 per
cent -- were killed by their parents, and mothers were responsible for
as many of the deaths as were fathers.
Among those 27 victims, 13 were killed by their biological mothers,
eight by their biological fathers.. [full story]
Barrie mom faced custody hearing
Girls, 1 and 3, found dead at home
Family court appearance set for today
JIM WILKES AND JESSICA LEEDER, STAFF REPORTERS, Oct. 5, 2006
BARRIE-Friends say a woman charged with killing her two young
daughters feared she was about to lose them in a bitter custody battle
with her estranged husband.
The latest chapter in the custody dispute was to have played out in
family court today, but yesterday's slayings of Sophia Campione, 3, and
her year-old sister Serena have brought that hearing to a tragic end.
[full story]
Investigation into the Death of Zachary Andrew Turner (18 July 2002 to
18 August 2003)
Zachary Turner, a 13 months old baby, died at the hands of his fugitive
mother, Dr. Shirley Turner, who killed him and then committed suicide
on August 18, 2003.
Turner was facing extradition to the United States to stand trial for
the 2001 murder of Dr. Andrew Bagby, Zachary's father.
28-year-old Dr. Andrew Bagby was found shot to death in Keystone State
Park, 55 kilometres northeast of Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A.
Turner fled to Newfoundland, Canada where Zachary was born. She was out
on bail against the wishes of U.S. authorities at the time of Zachary's
death.
We have a whole section with the coroner's report [Full Story]
A list of infanticide cases in Canada
Canadian Press, Thursday, September 28, 2006
(CP) - Katrina Effert of Wetaskiwin, Alta., has been convicted of
second-degree murder for killing her newborn baby boy. Here's what has
happened in some other Canadian cases of newborn killing:
Melanie Sheila Murphy, 21: left her baby daughter in garbage bag at the
college she was attending in Camrose, Alta. Given suspended sentence in
1998 for infanticide and ordered to perform 75 hours of community
service. [full story]
Alberta baby-killing verdict discussions echo national infanticide
debate
Canadian Press, By: LISA ARROWSMITH, September 27, 2006
WETASKIWIN, Alta. (CP) - It's a small farming community whose high
number of auto dealerships has given it a reputation as a good place
for a deal on a car.
But the morning after a young local woman was convicted of murdering
her newborn baby, debate on the leafy streets of Wetaskiwin, Alta., was
over much higher stakes than Ford Vs. Chevy.
"Ten years is not sufficient," said an adamant Gail Doolittle,
referring to the sentence handed out to Katrina Effert, 20.
"That's the justice system. We need to give them a chance," she sneered
as she loaded her two-year-old daughter Heather into a car seat at a
local grocery store. [full story]
Verdict shocks experts
Murder convictions rare when moms kill newborns
The Edmonton Journal, Jim Farrell, Thursday, September 28, 2006
EDMONTON -- Legal experts, stunned by Tuesday's second-degree murder
conviction of a 20-year-old woman who killed her newborn baby, declared
an appeal on the grounds of "unreasonable verdict" a virtual certainty.
Expect Katrina Effert of Wetaskiwin to win that appeal and get a new
trial says a University of Winnipeg criminologist.
"I think her chances are pretty good," Kirsten Kramar said. "Effert's
second-degree murder conviction is completely out of step with
jurisprudence in other provinces. It wasn't a just outcome."
The jury at Effert's trial had the option of finding her guilty of
second- degree murder, of infanticide or of manslaughter. Convicted of
infanticide or manslaughter, Effert might have gone to jail for a short
period of time or she might have received only a conditional sentence
and done no time at all. [full story]
Accused baby killer was revered by children, court told
CanWest News Service; Edmonton Journal, Wednesday, September 20, 2006
EDMONTON - Three women who have known Katrina Effert for decades told
the jury at her murder trial how she has been loved and revered by
children all her life and how she returned that affection.
Effert, 20, is accused of strangling her baby last year with a pair of
her thong underwear and dumping his body over a neighbour's fence
within hours of secretly giving birth in the basement of her parents'
Wetaskiwin, Alta., home.
Defence witness Cathy Doty testified she has known Effert all her life.
She said children loved Effert.
"They loved her to pieces," said Doty, Effert's second cousin. "They
didn't leave her alone. They surrounded her all the time. [full story]
Lawyers appeal in infanticide case
Edmonton Journal, CanWest News Service; Friday, September 29, 2006
Wetaskiwin AB-Katrina Effert, 19, in disguise, quickly enters the
Wetaskiwin Court House for her trial, she's charged with second-degree
murder in the death of her newborn son in Wetaskiwin in 2005.
EDMONTON - Lawyers for an Alberta woman are appealing her second-degree
murder conviction for killing her newborn baby.
In the meantime, they hope Katrina Effert, 20, of Wetaskiwin, Alta.,
will be able to get bail during what could be a lengthy process.
''We did that this morning,'' lawyer Sheila Schumacher said Thursday
after launching their appeal. [full story]
Autopsy: Slain woman's kids were drowned
Associated Press Writer, By JIM SUHR, Sun Sep 24, 2006
EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill. U.S.A. - A woman accused of killing a pregnant
woman and her fetus told police she drowned the woman's three young
children and stuffed them into a washer and dryer at their apartment,
an official said Sunday.
Preliminary autopsies on the dead children Sunday appear to show they
were drowned, Ace Hart, a deputy St. Clair County coroner, told The
Associated Press.
As of Sunday, Tiffany Hall, 24, had not been charged in the children's
deaths, but prosecutors on Saturday accused Hall of killing their
mother, Jimella Tunstall, 23, and her fetus. The fetus had been cut
from her womb, authorities said. [full story]
Toddler dies from head injuries
Mother charged in daughter's death
21-month-old hurt Friday night
The Toronto Star, by HENRY STANCU, STAFF REPORTER, Oct. 12, 2004.
A Toronto woman has been charged after her 21-month-old daughter died
from severe blunt trauma to the head, police say.
City police and ambulance were called Friday at 11 p.m. to an apartment
on Pape Ave. at Queen St. E. Inside, they found Starlin Waide, who
wasn't breathing. She was rushed to the Hospital for Sick Children but
died Saturday at 5:30 p.m., police said. [full story]
American Psychological Association
Dating Violence
Nearly one in 10 girls and one in 20 boys say they have been raped or
experienced some other form of abusive violence on a date, according to
a study released Sunday at the annual meeting of the American
Psychological Association.
[full story]
WOMEN:
THE FORGOTTEN CHILD MURDERERS
Women who kill their children are given sympathy and sentenced to
"treatment" while men who do the same thing are charged with murder and
sentenced to life.
Perhaps it is not a coincidence that women are many times more likely
to murder their offspring than men.
[full story]
Infidelity--It may be in our genes. Our Cheating Hearts
Devotion and betrayal, marriage and divorce: how evolution shaped human
love
[full story]
| Home | Search | Terms and Conditions of Use and Disclaimer |
Privacy Policy |
Copyright © 1996-2006 Canadian Children's Rights Council. All Rights
Reserved
Greegor
You went silent on this for three weeks then changed the subject.
Remember, when I pointed out how you made a big deal
about it as an example of ""parents"" killing kids
(and justifying CPS) until later stories revealed
they had foster adopted and were getting huge subsidies?
Your stuff about evil bio parents all turned SOUR!
Then later you try to deny it, so I posted the old stuff.
0:->
Yahoo! News
Social worker found dead in Ky. home
2 hours, 1 minute ago
Police found a social worker dead in a western Kentucky home and issued
an Amber Alert for the 10-month-old boy the woman had taken to the
house for a visit with his mother, authorities said.
The child's mother, Renee Terrell, 33, of Henderson, did not have
custody of her developmentally disabled son, police said. She and her
boyfriend, Christopher Wayne Luttrell, 23, were both missing and were
believed to have the child.
Henderson police were called Monday when the social worker didn't
return to work after taking the baby for a visit with the mother, Sgt.
John Nevels told The Gleaner newspaper of Henderson.
The social worker was identified as Boni Frederick, 67, of Morganfield,
who worked for the Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services.
Nevels declined to comment on the cause of Frederick's death but said
"it was a violent attack." An autopsy was scheduled for Tuesday.
Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The
information contained in the AP News report may not be published,
broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written
authority of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
0:->
Are you glad or sad, happy or upset?
Should she have been tortured first, Greg?
One killing I recall from a few years ago appeared to have elements of
torture to it.
I recall some of you anti CPS twits chortleing over it saying she got
what she deserved that time, even putting down her daughter who posted
here.
YOU folks are nothing if not humane and fair, right?
0:->
Greegor
someone's child away from their parents,"
Duncan said. "You know how protective parents can be."
Especially if you work for the notorious Kentucky "cabinet".
In the process of hearding people onto boxcars,
expect a few to fight back.
No photo of the deceased, yet.
No explanation of why child was removed, yet.
Definately lots of information about the Kentucky cabinet.
If the child was removed for TRIVIA, do you
think the state is going to want to admit to that?
But if the parents were crack heads etc.
YOU KNOW the state is going to want to get that out!
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/17/amber.alert.ap/index.html
Amber Alert issued for baby boy; social worker dead
POSTED: 12:40 p.m. EDT, October 17, 2006
HENDERSON, Kentucky (AP) -- Police found a social worker slain in a
western Kentucky home and issued an Amber Alert for the 10-month-old
boy the woman had taken to the house for a visit with his mother,
authorities said Tuesday.
The child's mother, Renee Terrell, 33, of Henderson, did not have
custody of her developmentally disabled son, police said. She and her
boyfriend, Christopher Wayne Luttrell, 23, were both missing Tuesday
and were believed to have the child.
Police were called Monday afternoon when the social worker didn't
return to work after taking the baby, Saige Terrell, to visit his
mother, said Henderson Police Sgt. Dwight Duncan.
"It's a dangerous job anytime you're taking someone's child away from
their parents," Duncan said. "You know how protective parents can be."
The social worker was identified as Boni Frederick, 67, of Morganfield,
who worked for the Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services. Her
station wagon, a 2000 white Daewoo Nubia, also was missing, police
said.
Duncan said police believe Frederick was killed, but he would not
comment on her cause of death pending an autopsy under way Tuesday.
The white-paneled house where she was found was roped off by police
tape Tuesday, and a police car was parked out front.
Across the street, Mindy Gray, 22, sat on a porch swing with her baby
and watched police continue the investigation. Gray described Terrell
as "goofy, like a little kid."
"But every time I talked to her, she was sweet as can be," Gray said.
0:->
the vicious workers and foster parents.
As Greg, he'll clue you in. Foster parents abuse at a rate 8 to ten
times more likely than bio parents....yeah, that's it. Nice bio
parents, baaaaaad foster parents.
http://www.turnto10.com/news/10095060/detail.html
Renee Terrell and Saige Terrell
AMBER ALERT
Video: Baby Missing
* Images: Amber Alert Issued For Missing Baby
* Download, Print: Missing Child Poster
* Web Site: More About Missing Baby
Amber Alert Issued For Baby After Social Worker Slain
Governor Orders Flags Lowered To Half-Staff
POSTED: 10:26 am EDT October 17, 2006
UPDATED: 3:21 pm EDT October 17, 2006
HENDERSON, Ky. -- A Kentucky social worker is dead, and authorities
have issued an Amber Alert for a baby boy who was in state custody.
Police said the social worker had taken the developmentally disabled
10-month-old baby to his mother's house for a visit. Officers were
called when the woman didn't return to work.
The 67-year-old woman later was found dead of what investigators call a
"violent attack." And the baby's mother and her boyfriend are missing.
The social worker, Boni Frederick of Morganfield, Ky., worked for the
state Cabinet for Health and Family Services.
Gov. Ernie Fletcher has directed that flags at all state office
buildings be lowered to half-staff in memory of Frederick.
"The first lady and I extend our deepest sympathies to the family,
friends and co-workers of Boni Frederick, a social service worker who
died tragically Monday in the line of duty," said Fletcher. "Ms.
Frederick worked as a public servant for 15 years looking out for the
best interest of Kentucky's children and families, and we honor her
dedication to her work. Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who
has been touched by this tragedy."
Police have issued an Amber Alert for the boy -- Saige Terrell -- and
said he may be with his mother, 33-year-old Renee Terrell and her
boyfriend, 23-year-old Christopher Wayne Luttrell.
Police said Terrell has family in Evansville and Fort Wayne, Ind.; in
Louisville, Ky.; and in New York.
The social worker's car is missing and police believe Terrell, Luttrell
and the boy may be traveling in it. It's described as a 2000 white
Daewoo Nubia station wagon with Kentucky license plate 675-DRV.
Renee Terrell is described as white with brown hair and brown eyes. She
is 5 feet 5 inches and weighs 240 pounds. Police said she also wears
glasses.
Christopher Wayne Luttrell is white with blue eyes, is 6 feet 2 inches
tall and weighs 150 pounds with tattoos on his arms.
Saige Terrell is white with brown eyes and brown hair, is 2 feet 3
inches tall and weighs 19 pounds.
Police said the boy is developmentally disabled and has a scratch on
the right side of his face and a rug burn on the back of his neck.
Police asked anyone with information to call 888-58-AMBER, or 911.
For more information, log on to KentuckyAmberAlert.com.
Distributed by Internet Broadcasting Systems, Inc. The Associated Press
contributed to this report. All rights reserved. This material may not
be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
.......
SEE! SEE that scratch and rugburn most likely caused by the vicious
foster parents? SEE SEE SEE, see Douggie run, see Greegor run, see
Michael et al run?
Lying pack of vicious pissant corrupt mindless punks.
0:->
> "It's a dangerous job anytime you're taking
> someone's child away from their parents,"
> Duncan said. "You know how protective parents can be."
>
> Especially if you work for the notorious Kentucky "cabinet".
What's notorious about it?
> In the process of hearding people onto boxcars,
> expect a few to fight back.
And kill?
> No photo of the deceased, yet.
Nope.
> No explanation of why child was removed, yet.
Nope.
> Definately lots of information about the Kentucky cabinet.
Nope. Where did you see that?
> If the child was removed for TRIVIA, do you
> think the state is going to want to admit to that?
Nope. Do you think he was removed for trivia? If so why would you think
so?
> But if the parents were crack heads etc.
Seen his pic yet? So if they were? Would you then think it okay?
Why? Someone that uses drugs is not necessarily a risk to children.
Drug use alone is rarely the reason a parent loses a child. It's
incapacity of some kind, or risks associated with life around a drug
user. Sometimes it's because they are in the slammer on crime related to
use, or use as a crime. The cops make the call, not CPS.
> YOU KNOW the state is going to want to get that out!
Nope. I don't know any such thing. Do you?
I presume this state has both state confidentiality laws, and operates
under the federal guidelines (law) of HIPAA.
You given up thinking again?
Besides, it's obvious the child was abused in foster care. That rug burn
and facial scratch were abuse by someone and he's been in foster care,
so naturaly the foster parents caused it. No wonder the worker was
killed, eh?
0:->
Greegor
> SEE! SEE that scratch and rugburn most likely caused by the vicious
> foster parents? SEE SEE SEE, see Douggie run, see Greegor run, see
> Michael et al run?
I'm not running.
> Lying pack of vicious pissant corrupt mindless punks.
The notion of the morally pure bureaucrat is a farce.
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> Kane wrote
> > SEE! SEE that scratch and rugburn most likely caused by the vicious
> > foster parents? SEE SEE SEE, see Douggie run, see Greegor run, see
> > Michael et al run?
>
> I'm not running.
Sure yah are. You didn't respond to what I actually wrote.
>
> > Lying pack of vicious pissant corrupt mindless punks.
>
> The notion of the morally pure bureaucrat is a farce.
No claim to that effect was made.
Which means you are lying again.
Which means you are still part of a lying pack of vicious pissant
corrupt mindless punks.
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> Kane? Did you give up on this BOSS case thing?
No, did you give up on the current dead social worker thing? You've not
answered, ".. what, no comment?
Are you glad or sad, happy or upset?
Should she have been tortured first, Greg?
One killing I recall from a few years ago appeared to have elements of
torture to it.
I recall some of you anti CPS twits chortleing over it saying she got
what she deserved that time, even putting down her daughter who posted
here.
YOU folks are nothing if not humane and fair, right? "
> You went silent on this for three weeks then changed the subject.
Nope. You are lying.
> Remember, when I pointed out how you made a big deal
> about it as an example of ""parents"" killing kids
> (and justifying CPS) until later stories revealed
> they had foster adopted and were getting huge subsidies?
Yep. Remember what I said? That I have no slack for anyone that kills a
child, regardless of the relationship?
You keep running by that and avoiding it and insinuating I was
protecting or approving of the murder of a child by adoptive parents.
Or isn't that what you mean?
> Your stuff about evil bio parents all turned SOUR!
Where did I mention bio parents in my comments on the story?
> Then later you try to deny it, so I posted the old stuff.
Post it again.
And I'll answer it again, just as I did when you posted it.
How is it you are mentioning it NOW but avoiding my reponse...no
attributions, nothing.
>
> Greegor wrote:
> > If anybody needs to find these links just go to
> > alt.support.child-protective-services
> > and search for Boss Iowa inside of this newsgroup.
> >
> > Some responses removed because there were not about this story.
> > Some others not listed here because they are too SIMILAR.
And some not listed because they prove you are lying about other's
responses.
You can find the posts but you can't provide the link to them?
Wanting to make it too hard for anyone to take time to find?
Why?
So, what is it you'd like to discuss about the Boss family, Greg? And
show that I had any more or less pity for them than bio parents?
Just can't debate so dredge up old arguments to lie about, eh?
Doananating in public, I see.
0:->
Greegor
> > Kane? Did you give up on this BOSS case thing?
>
> No, did you give up on the current dead social worker thing? You've not
> answered, ".. what, no comment?
I have already posted TWICE about it.
Are you using a LOUSY news reader again?
Try GOOGLE!
> Are you glad or sad, happy or upset?
>
> Should she have been tortured first, Greg?
No, of course not, because she probably didn't torture the family.
But now that she's dead she's a saint.
> One killing I recall from a few years ago appeared to have elements of
> torture to it.
Considering how many caseworkers act (Kentucky "cabinet") I am
amazed there haven't been DOZENS of such incidents in the mean time.
Remember that the KENTUCKY "cabinet" is now known
for ABUSING families in large numbers.
How come they haven't announced what the mother's DEFECT is yet?
I'm waiting for that "other shoe" to drop.
> I recall some of you anti CPS twits chortleing over it saying she got
> what she deserved that time, even putting down her daughter who posted
> here.
I don't remember this, but how would you know if it was REALLY
her daughter or just another newsgroup sock puppet?
> YOU folks are nothing if not humane and fair, right? "
>
> > You went silent on this for three weeks then changed the subject.
>
> Nope. You are lying.
What lousy newsreader are you using that doesn't show you
the posting history with DATES in a message thread?
For you to call me a liar is like a notarized reference that I told
truth.
0:->
Michael© wrote:
> "0:->" <pohak...@gmail.com> scribbled in
> alt.support.child-protective-services:
>
> > ... what, no comment?
> >
> > Are you glad or sad, happy or upset?
> >
> > Should she have been tortured first, Greg?
>
> others throughout the years.
Strange statement. "shared with others?"
> >
> > One killing I recall from a few years ago appeared to have elements of
> > torture to it.
> >
> > I recall some of you anti CPS twits chortleing over it saying she got
> > what she deserved that time, even putting down her daughter who posted
> > here.
>
> Rarely are people killed intentionally that didn't do something the
> murderer thought justified the action.
The worker attacked them with risk to their life or physical harm?
> So you want a river of tears
I don't recall saying I expected anything of the kind. I expected what
I'm getting. 0:->
> for
> an old dead bitch social worker that made her living at the expense of
> families? Hold your breath.
No. Thanks anyway.
> >
> > YOU folks are nothing if not humane and fair, right?
> >
> > 0:->
> >
> >
> > 0:-> wrote:
> >> http://tinyurl.com/yze8ym
> >>
> >> Yahoo! News
> >> Social worker found dead in Ky. home
> >>
> SNIP
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/yze8ym
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael©
>
> Deutsches Vaterland Über alles in der Welt
> Freiheit für Deutschland !
0:->
> > the vicious workers and foster parents.
> >
> > As Greg, he'll clue you in. Foster parents abuse at a rate 8 to ten
> > times more likely than bio parents....yeah, that's it. Nice bio
> > parents, baaaaaad foster parents.
> >
> > http://www.turnto10.com/news/10095060/detail.html
> > Renee Terrell and Saige Terrell
> >
> > AMBER ALERT
> >
> >
> > .......
> >
> > SEE! SEE that scratch and rugburn most likely caused by the vicious
> > foster parents? SEE SEE SEE, see Douggie run, see Greegor run, see
> > Michael et al run?
> >
> > Lying pack of vicious pissant corrupt mindless punks.
> >
>
Look at you now.
> It's quite feasible that the parents did see the scratch on their child
> and also the rug burn.
Yes, also quite feasible they put it there.
> How does a small child that age get a rug burn on
> the back of their neck? The foster parents would know.
A ten month old developmentally disabled child?
Oh from repetative compulsive movement. Quite common. I've seen them
get bad rub marks and even sore bumps that way, even from things as
smooth as the sheets in the crib.
And who said where it came from?
>
> That caseworker won't be snatching anymore children.
>
Yes, that's true. And you have proof she did before?
> Hopefully she crawled and floundered on the floor for a few hours before
> she died.
You are too kind. If any of her family are reading I'm sure they
appreciate your sentiments.
You need help.
0:->
> > the vicious workers and foster parents.
> >
> > As Greg, he'll clue you in. Foster parents abuse at a rate 8 to ten
> > times more likely than bio parents....yeah, that's it. Nice bio
> > parents, baaaaaad foster parents.
> >
> > http://www.turnto10.com/news/10095060/detail.html
> > Renee Terrell and Saige Terrell
> >
> > AMBER ALERT
> >
> >
> > .......
> >
> > SEE! SEE that scratch and rugburn most likely caused by the vicious
> > foster parents? SEE SEE SEE, see Douggie run, see Greegor run, see
> > Michael et al run?
> >
> > Lying pack of vicious pissant corrupt mindless punks.
> >
>
>
> the back of their neck? The foster parents would know.
>
>
> she died.
I'm trying to recall and just can't figure out how to search for it,
but you must have posted a few times with equal venom for parents who
have killed their children, right?
Could you direct me to your posts with that in it?
0:->
0:->
>> Greegor wrote:
>>> Kane? Did you give up on this BOSS case thing?
>> No, did you give up on the current dead social worker thing? You've not
>> answered, ".. what, no comment?
>
> I have already posted TWICE about it.
That's nice. You are still in the same thread.
> Are you using a LOUSY news reader again?
Better one than yours, apparently.
>
> Try GOOGLE!
Why, I know what you post, and I commented on it. You changed the
subject from my post. If you are going to reply to a post, stay on topic.
If you wish to discuss another thread, either open it again, or start a
new one.
>
>> Are you glad or sad, happy or upset?
>>
>> Should she have been tortured first, Greg?
>
> No, of course not, because she probably didn't torture the family.
But dead is okay then.
>
> But now that she's dead she's a saint.
>
I don't recall saying that. You seem really stuck in the black or white
thing. People are either all good or all bad.
>> One killing I recall from a few years ago appeared to have elements of
>> torture to it.
>
> Considering how many caseworkers act (Kentucky "cabinet") I am
> amazed there haven't been DOZENS of such incidents in the mean time.
..."how many caseworkers act..." what?
>
> Remember that the KENTUCKY "cabinet" is now known
> for ABUSING families in large numbers.
It is alleged.
>
> How come they haven't announced what the mother's DEFECT is yet?
Privacy concerns possibly? She is a CPS client, and regardless of her
alleged actions now she is protected by federal law.
If anything get's out it will be via journalist investigative
techniques...like checking police records.
>
> I'm waiting for that "other shoe" to drop.
>
Yes. And I appreciate that this may be the first, and most historic
event, where you did not decide before hand if someone was guilty or
not...and on far less evidence than we see in this story...oh wait, all
those others were foster parents, or CPS workers, or families that were
supposed to be monitored by CPS.
Yes, I understand now.
>> I recall some of you anti CPS twits chortleing over it saying she got
>> what she deserved that time, even putting down her daughter who posted
>> here.
>
> I don't remember this, but how would you know if it was REALLY
> her daughter or just another newsgroup sock puppet?
How do I know you are Greg Hanson and not Michael's sock puppet?
>
>> YOU folks are nothing if not humane and fair, right? "
>>
>>> You went silent on this for three weeks then changed the subject.
>> Nope. You are lying.
>
> What lousy newsreader are you using that doesn't show you
> the posting history with DATES in a message thread?
That I did not discuss the issue for three weeks is irrelevant. You are
lying because you are injecting meaning without proof.
Or weren't you accusing me of something? 0:->
> For you to call me a liar is like a notarized reference that I told
> truth.
Notaries only certify as an official that parties have signed legal or
contractural documents. They don't give "truth" references.
>
I find it more than coincidental that you did not continue on at this
point.
Why?
Well, could it be because your argument that there was some support by
me for adoptive parents killing their children falls flat on your ass
stupid.
I'm not a vicious hate filled pissant like you and Michael.
So tell me, what is the significance of these long silences if the
poster doesn't respond when you ask him to clarify?
(Hint, remember the "use of lethal force" issue?)
When you asked me what significance there was to my three week silence,
I answered you, straight out, and to the point.
When I asked YOU for two YEARS you weaseled, dodged, went silent for weeks.
Was I supposed to presume some evil intent on your part?
You could have cleared it up in an instance, just like I just did. Wha
happen?
0:->
0:->
have therapy for the anger management problem of yours?
(And you KNEW it was going to turn out like this, stupid. People that
would kill in such circumstances...and "usually have a reason" are by
definition not to be trusted with children.)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221537,00.html
[[[ Go there, yah gotta see the man's pic. He's a cutey.]]]
"Baby Missing After Social Worker Found Slain in Ky. Home
Tuesday , October 17, 2006
HENDERSON, Ky. — A social worker who had taken a 10-month-old boy to
his mother's house for a visit was found beaten and cut to death, and
the baby was apparently abducted, authorities said.
Police found the body of Boni Frederick, 67, at the house on Monday
after she failed to return to work, and she appeared to have been beaten
to death. Her car also was missing
"It was blunt force trauma and sharp instrument lacerations," Sgt. John
Nevels of the Henderson Police Department said Tuesday. "There was
definitely a struggle."
Police searched Tuesday for the missing boy, who was believed to be with
his mother, Renee Terrell, 33 and her boyfriend, Christopher Wayne
Luttrell, 23.
Terrell has a history of abuse charges against children, including
charges of assault and endangering the welfare of a minor, police said.
The child had been taken from his mother when he was 13-days-old because
of neglect.
Luttrell has separate burglary charges in Jefferson County and has a
warrant for parole violation, police said.
Investigators have contacted family and friends, who have been "helpful
on giving some locations to concentrate on" in their search. The pair
was last seen late Monday at a gas station off Interstate 70 in Illinois.
The mother's white-paneled, single-story house was roped off by police
tape, and a squad car was parked in front. The FBI and Henderson police
were working together on the case.
Neighbor Mindy Gray, 22, described the mother as "goofy, like a little kid."
"But every time I talked to her, she was sweet as can be," she said.
Gov. Ernie Fletcher asked flags to be flown at half-staff on state
buildings in memory of Frederick, who worked for the state Cabinet for
Health and Family Services. The last time a social worker was killed on
the job in Kentucky was in 1987.
Advocates said the slaying emphasizes the danger of social work.
"It's like a state trooper stopping somebody for speeding," said
Kathleen Hoffman, deputy director of the Association of Social Work
Boards. "Ninety-nine percent of the time it's fine. But there's always
that chance that somebody has a gun."
Terrell has family in Louisville; Evansville and Fort Wayne, Ind.; and
in New York, police said. Frederick's car was missing, and the
dispatcher said Terrell, Luttrell and the boy may be traveling in it. It
was described as a 2000 white Daewoo Nubia station wagon with Kentucky
license plate 675-DRV.
Renee Terrell was described as white, brown hair, brown eyes with
glasses, 5-foot-5 and 240 pounds. Luttrell was described as white, blue
eyes, 6-2 and 150 pounds with tattoos on his arms.
Saige Terrell is white, brown eyes, brown hair, 27 inches tall and 19
pounds. Police said the boy is developmentally disabled and has a
scratch on the right side of his face and a rug burn on the back of his
neck.
Information about the missing boy can be reported to police at (270)
827-8700.
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All market data delayed 20 minutes.
0:->
> >
> > Are you glad or sad, happy or upset?
> >
> > Should she have been tortured first, Greg?
>
> others throughout the years.
>
> >
> > torture to it.
> >
> > I recall some of you anti CPS twits chortleing over it saying she got
> > what she deserved that time, even putting down her daughter who posted
> > here.
>
> an old dead bitch social worker that made her living at the expense of
> families? Hold your breath.
The "old dead bitch social worker" wasn't a caseworker. She was a low
level aide that simply provided transportation. They are the most
helpful folks at CPS Michael.
No "aide" takes children away from families.
If you read this carefuly you will see...and I suspected this from the
beginning but I love watching you dig yourself a hole, so I didn't
speculate.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/17/missing.baby/index.html
... As a social service worker, she said, Frederick's primary duty was
transporting children to and from family visits and doctor
appointments. ...
CPS uses a lot of these, and they are of two groups, kids doing their
college internship in graduate school, usually, and may or may not be
interested in child protection as a career, and the regular long
timers, who are often the best friend the parent has, in the system.
How you feelin', big mean tough guy?
Or do you think anyone that works for CPS deserves to die?
0:->
>
> >
> > YOU folks are nothing if not humane and fair, right?
> >
> > 0:->
> >
> >
> > 0:-> wrote:
> >> http://tinyurl.com/yze8ym
> >>
> >> Yahoo! News
> >> Social worker found dead in Ky. home
> >>
> SNIP
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/yze8ym
0:->
Michael© wrote:
> "0:->" <pohak...@gmail.com> scribbled in
> alt.support.child-protective-services:
>
> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Why would this story cause me to run?
> >
> > Look at you now.
> >
> >> It's quite feasible that the parents did see the scratch on their child
> >> and also the rug burn.
> >
> > Yes, also quite feasible they put it there.
>
> neglect. The child is 10 months old now. I'm quite certain these weren't
> unsupervised visits.
Parents can't hurt a child in a supervised visit?
The social service aide doesn't just hold the baby up for them to look
at. They are encouraged to play with and bond with the child.
> So explain just how the parents put these scratches
> and rug burns on this child.
Playing too roughly on a scratchy surfaced rug, even while the visit is
supervised?
> >
> >> How does a small child that age get a rug burn on
> >> the back of their neck? The foster parents would know.
> >
> > A ten month old developmentally disabled child?
>
> I don't recall seeing that the child was developmentally disabled.
Then you haven't read closely enough.
> If the
> child was taken from the parents at 13 days old and is now 10 months old,
> did the parents cause this child to become developmentally disabled or was
> it caused from some other means?
DD means from birth.
> Where did you surmise the child was
> disabled in any way?
In the news article.
> >
> > Oh from repetative compulsive movement. Quite common. I've seen them
> > get bad rub marks and even sore bumps that way, even from things as
> > smooth as the sheets in the crib.
> >
> > And who said where it came from?
>
> I ASKED how it got there.
Yes, you did.
And I set you up with my wry remarks about it being "foster parent"
caused. Of course I wasn't addressing you alone.
My apologies if you became confused.
> >>
> >> That caseworker won't be snatching anymore children.
> >>
> > Yes, that's true. And you have proof she did before?
>
> No, but I guarantee she won't in the future.
So if she did not in the past, does this mean she still deserved the
death she got anyway, just for being a CPS employee?
Surprise. Workers who do her kind of work are NOT caseworkers. They
don't do any removals or contribute to any of the decision making. They
are the lowest paid employees in direct contact with clients.
> >> Hopefully she crawled and floundered on the floor for a few hours
> >> before she died.
> >
> > You are too kind. If any of her family are reading I'm sure they
> > appreciate your sentiments.
>
> Fuck you and her family.
Yer not my type.
> People die everyday.
Sure they do. What's that got to do with murder?
> That's the price for living.
> Pay up.
Can or should I take that as a threat?
> >
> > You need help.
>
> Because I've become calloused over the years, you believe I need help?
Yes.
> You a psychic healer, Kane?
Ah, if only.
> You need help for your lying, and I don't need psychic powers to see that.
Are you speaking about things in this thread on this subject, or would
you like to quickly and quietly change the subject now?
I don't recall saying you had psychic powers, but now that you mention
it, you were behaving as though you did.
Assigning guilt to someone that does not do what you claim they do.
Ah well, why not put it all up on your webpage and you won't have to be
bothered with being challenged on your bullshit.
0:->
worker you might want to give this a thought:
Do you think the child is safe with this couple now?
Personally I fear for his safety.
But then, obviously the mother loves him dearly...dearly enough to kill
for him.
Kane
0:->
> >
> > If you read this carefuly you will see...and I suspected this from the
> > beginning but I love watching you dig yourself a hole, so I didn't
> > speculate.
>
Depends on what the opinion is. Read on, for your opinion.
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/17/missing.baby/index.html
> >
> > ... As a social service worker, she said, Frederick's primary duty was
> > transporting children to and from family visits and doctor
> > appointments. ...
> >
> > CPS uses a lot of these, and they are of two groups, kids doing their
> > college internship in graduate school, usually, and may or may not be
> > interested in child protection as a career, and the regular long
> > timers, who are often the best friend the parent has, in the system.
> >
> > How you feelin', big mean tough guy?
>
> Like a BIG BIG man!
Sure.
> >
> > Or do you think anyone that works for CPS deserves to die?
>
> I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all died tomorrow.
That your "opinion" is it?
Or your wish?
Other posts of yours seem to indicate you have a strong need to project
death and destruction on those you disagree with, like CPS workers.
Yes, it very much IS a "management" problem. And we all hope you are
doing something about it?
0:->
>
> >
> > 0:->
> >
> SNIP
0:->
> > have therapy for the anger management problem of yours?
>
Consistent. Good.
> I have no anger management problems.
"Anger" is not a problem. It's normal.
"Management" is your problem. 0:-}
"I wouldn't lose any sleep if they all died tomorrow."
"Fuck you and her family."
"Hopefully she crawled and floundered on the floor for a few hours
before she died."
"Rarely are people killed intentionally that didn't do something the
murderer thought justified the action. So you want a river of tears
for
an old dead bitch social worker that made her living at the expense of
families? Hold your breath."
> Its you passive sheep that see anger
> as a problem.
"Passive sheep?" That's not what some have said that have met me.
So you think the baby is safe, eh?
Kane
> >
> > (And you KNEW it was going to turn out like this, stupid. People that
> > would kill in such circumstances...and "usually have a reason" are by
> > definition not to be trusted with children.)
> >
> > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221537,00.html
> >
> > [[[ Go there, yah gotta see the man's pic. He's a cutey.]]]
> >
> >
> > "Baby Missing After Social Worker Found Slain in Ky. Home
> >
> > Tuesday , October 17, 2006
> >
0:->
Michael© wrote:
> "0:->" <pohak...@gmail.com> scribbled in
> alt.support.child-protective-services:
>
> SNIP
> >
>
> badly.
So, the worker is supposed to just hold the baby and let them look at
it?
> >
> > The social service aide doesn't just hold the baby up for them to look
> > at. They are encouraged to play with and bond with the child.
>
> Encouraged to play and bond with their offspring? Something they would
> likely do without encouragement.
You'd be surprized how often they do not know how to play and bond with
the child.
And no, it's "likely" at all. Notice this was a neglect case
originally, and the mother had been abusive before. We don't know yet
to who.
> >> So explain just how the parents put these scratches
> >> and rug burns on this child.
> >
> > Playing too roughly on a scratchy surfaced rug, even while the visit is
> > supervised?
>
> Not supervised to well then.
Yes, that mitigates the murder.
>
> SNIP
>
> >> I don't recall seeing that the child was developmentally disabled.
> >
> > Then you haven't read closely enough.
> >
> >> If the
> >> child was taken from the parents at 13 days old and is now 10 months
> >> old, did the parents cause this child to become developmentally
> >> disabled or was it caused from some other means?
> >
> > DD means from birth.
> >
> >> Where did you surmise the child was
> >> disabled in any way?
> >
> > In the news article.
>
> My Bad.
No problem. I don't catch everything and appreciate being directed to
what I've missed.
> >> >
> >> > Oh from repetative compulsive movement. Quite common. I've seen them
> >> > get bad rub marks and even sore bumps that way, even from things as
> >> > smooth as the sheets in the crib.
> >> >
> >> > And who said where it came from?
> >>
> >> I ASKED how it got there.
> >
> > Yes, you did.
> >
> > And I set you up with my wry remarks about it being "foster parent"
> > caused. Of course I wasn't addressing you alone.
> >
> > My apologies if you became confused.
>
> You couldn't set up a square box on end, Kane.
Seems I just did. "My bad."
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> That caseworker won't be snatching anymore children.
> >> >>
> >> > Yes, that's true. And you have proof she did before?
> >>
> >> No, but I guarantee she won't in the future.
> >
> > So if she did not in the past, does this mean she still deserved the
> > death she got anyway, just for being a CPS employee?
>
> I wasn't there to witness what transpired and led up to the act.
But you are full of opinions that the worker deserved to be murdered,
and for that matter wished that she was tortured, remember?
>
> Just for being a CPS employee? No.
Odd, you just said that you wouldn't lose any sleep if they all died.
And you said she deserved to die because she was a baby snatcher, is
that not correct?
"Hopefully she crawled and floundered on the floor for a few hours
before she died."
She was both bludgeoned and stabbed or cut.
> > Surprise. Workers who do her kind of work are NOT caseworkers. They
> > don't do any removals or contribute to any of the decision making. They
> > are the lowest paid employees in direct contact with clients.
>
> She should have worked at McDonalds® then.
Who should work at CPS then?
> >> >> Hopefully she crawled and floundered on the floor for a few hours
> >> >> before she died.
> >> >
> >> > You are too kind. If any of her family are reading I'm sure they
> >> > appreciate your sentiments.
> >>
> >> Fuck you and her family.
> >
> > Yer not my type.
> >
> >> People die everyday.
> >
> > Sure they do. What's that got to do with murder?
>
> You can't make the connection between death and murder?
I can't? We are talking about murder here. Not just death.
> >
> >> That's the price for living.
> >> Pay up.
> >
> > Can or should I take that as a threat?
>
> You can and should take it any which way you want to take it. Just don't
> flatter yourself, Kane. You're not worth the sweat on pigs balls.
Pigs don't sweat anywhere but on the end of their noses. No sweat
glands anywhere else.
That's why they must "wallow."
I grew up in farm and ranch country and majored, of all things, in
agriculture clear through HS to my senior year. Then switch to a
college major.
Use to belong to the largest FFA chapter in America back then.
Raised crops, hogs, dairy, beef and sheep. Ran part of my uncle's
potato farm, and all livestock operations. Little place, only 6,000
acres and a little. About two thirds leased land.
I ran a D-9 Cat alone at 9 and 10 years old. Try it. It's fun.
> >> >
> >> > You need help.
> >>
> >> Because I've become calloused over the years, you believe I need help?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >> You a psychic healer, Kane?
> >
> > Ah, if only.
> >
> >> You need help for your lying, and I don't need psychic powers to see
> >> that.
> >
> > Are you speaking about things in this thread on this subject, or would
> > you like to quickly and quietly change the subject now?
>
> In most all of your threads. No subject change necessary.
Sure there was. And you did it. And you are a liar.
> > I don't recall saying you had psychic powers, but now that you mention
> > it, you were behaving as though you did.
> >
> > Assigning guilt to someone that does not do what you claim they do.
> >
> > Ah well, why not put it all up on your webpage and you won't have to be
> > bothered with being challenged on your bullshit.
>
> Challenged on statements you made?
No, assigning guilt on people that you haven't a bit of knowledge
about, like the murdered socail worker.
> Changing the subject of this thread
> now, Kane?
No, working to drag you back to it.
You seem to want to go off in other directions.
Did the worker deserve to be beaten and stabbed to death, Michael?
If so, how do you come by the special knowledge it would take to make
such a serious decision?
Or is it just that you lack self control?
And blow the first thing out your ass that comes to your mind?
0:-]
0:->
Man held for court in child abuse case
Man held for court in child abuse case
Intro - John A. Coy, 55, is accused of taking nude pictures of a
13-year-old and exposing himself to her.
CLARION - A former Shippenville man will face trial for allegedly
taking nude pictures of a 13-year-old girl and exposing himself to her.
John A. Coy, 55, had been the subject of a Pennsylvania
Crimestoppers initiative and was taken into custody last month in
Arizona.
Clarion sheriff's department authorities traveled to the state to
bring Coy, who had been stopped there for a traffic violation, back to
Clarion.
District Judge Amy Long ordered Coy held for court on all charges
at the close of a preliminary hearing Tuesday in Clarion County Central
Court.
Charges include felony sexual abuse of children, permitting a child
to engage in a prohibited sexual act, endangering the welfare of
children, unlawful contact with a minor, indecent exposure and
corruption of minors.
State police Trooper David Sprankle alleges the crimes occurred
between September of 2004 and January 2006 at a Sligo residence where
the victim had lived with her mother, who was dating Coy.
District Attorney Mark Aaron called the girl and Sprankle to
provide testimony at the hearing.
Coy is being represented by Public Defender Mike Marshall.
The girl described an incident where the defendant took her clothes
off and then took digital pictures of her in her bedroom.
Coy exposed himself to her in another incident, she said.
The girl also testified about another occasion where she was
sleeping in her mother's bed and woke up to find Coy and her mother
having sex.
Marshall asked the witness about the circumstances in which her
mother and Coy left the area and if she was angry.
The girl said she was upset to learn they had moved away without
telling her of their plans.
"They just left," she said.
However, she said, the incidents she described "really happened."
The girl said she told her mother about Coy exposing himself and
about the pictures he allegedly took.
"She said she didn't care," the girl said.
Sprankle testified he conducted numerous interviews with family
members concerning the case as well as Coy and his estranged wife.
Coy denied the allegations, said the investigator.
The county's Children and Youth Services agency and state police
became involved after the alleged victim told a cousin about the
incidents.
News Management provided by Macpherson Internet Utilities, Hosting by
USAChoice.
Copyright 2003
Greegor
> Christopher Wayne Luttrell, 23.
> Terrell has a history of abuse charges against children, including
> charges of assault and endangering the welfare of a minor, police said.
> The child had been taken from his mother when he was 13-days
> old because of neglect.
THIS says "history of charges" not history of convictions.
CHARGES don't mean squat. Convictions mean a little more.
Before the murder it looks like she had NO CRIMINAL CHARGES.
This "history of abuse charges" is CPS code for a lot of NOTHING
they tried to whip into SOMETHING.
> Luttrell has separate burglary charges in Jefferson County
> and has a warrant for parole violation, police said.
Charges but NOT convictions again??
Do you think CPS was giving them a hassle because
a 33 year old woman was dating a 23 year old man?
There are places where gossip about
such stuff is a BIG DEAL!
And caseworkers DO get into gossip!
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> > Renee Terrell, 33
> > Christopher Wayne Luttrell, 23.
>
> > Terrell has a history of abuse charges against children, including
> > charges of assault and endangering the welfare of a minor, police said.
> > The child had been taken from his mother when he was 13-days
> > old because of neglect.
>
> THIS says "history of charges" not history of convictions.
> CHARGES don't mean squat. Convictions mean a little more.
Yep. I'll remember that next time YOU post about those Evil CPS
workers, okay?
> Before the murder it looks like she had NO CRIMINAL CHARGES.
> This "history of abuse charges" is CPS code for a lot of NOTHING
> they tried to whip into SOMETHING.
CPS isn't reporting. They cannot. HIPAA.
This is coming from police reports and court records, where journalists
get most of their info in cases regarding aledged criminals.
> > Luttrell has separate burglary charges in Jefferson County
> > and has a warrant for parole violation, police said.
>
> Charges but NOT convictions again??
Mmmm...he's on parole, child. What do you think for?
> Do you think CPS was giving them a hassle because
> a 33 year old woman was dating a 23 year old man?
I doubt it.
I do wonder if they were, however, because of whatever he was on parole
for?
He's amazingly skinny. Did you notice? Eating disorder maybe?
But that wouldn't be fair to blame mom for that and keep the baby from
returning.
I've a hunch it's a whole lot more about extremely poor judgement on
her part in the past. And risk to the child.
Would you prefer the child had been left with a couple capable,
possibly, of murder so horrendous as this one?
I can tell you that DD children pose a significant risk TO THEMSELVES
simply by being hard to parent. They have a higher abuse rate and death
at hands of their parents than children not so afflicted.
> There are places where gossip about
> such stuff is a BIG DEAL!
What places?
The office?
Discussing cases?
Well shut may mouf.
> And caseworkers DO get into gossip!
Yes, and they should be bludgeoned and stabbed to death for it, isn't
that right?
The wasn't, by the way, a caseworker.
The description I've seen makes it very plain she was quite a step down
and a "social services aide" Someone that runs kids around on home
visits, doctors and therapists appointments, etc.
Usually kindly folks that go out of their way to help parents as much
as they can.
Do you think she deserved to be killed because "caseworkers" gossip?
0:->
Greegor
has a "history" of something, they have a bit more
legal responsibility for accuracy than a mere citizen, right?
I am not an "official".
The ONLY ""history"" either one had was CHARGES.
These could include ten year old DROPPED charges
or charges filed last week.
I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
(as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
Do you think these supposed CHARGES of child abuse or neglect
were REALLY criminal charges, or just the usual old
BS in Juvenile court? And if they were really just in
Juvenile Court, they were NOT criminal charges, right?
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> Kane, When a government agent reports that a citizen
> has a "history" of something, they have a bit more
> legal responsibility for accuracy than a mere citizen, right?
What is the "legal" part?
Can you cite statute to support your claim of "legal" responsibility?
>
> I am not an "official".
>
Thank goodness.
> The ONLY ""history"" either one had was CHARGES.
If I say you have a yellow shoe on your right foot, we don't know if
you do or don't have the same color one, or one at all on your other
foot, but my bet is that it's highly likely.
NOT saying they were convicted doesn't mean they weren't.
You and Doan seem to be into the "if there isn't explicite information"
the other parties must be insinuating something.
Sound familiar? R R R R R R R
> These could include ten year old DROPPED charges
> or charges filed last week.
Could be. Or could not be.
The man has burglary charges and IS on parole. And has violated parole
before this event. The police were already looking for him I gather.
> I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
> (as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
Yes, that's possible. It may be a civil family court judge made the
call based on CPS reports.
So?
You are talking about two people that now heavily implicated in a
particularly brutal murder, Greg.
Don't you think you ought to hold off on your arguments supporting them
until you have more of the story?
> Do you think these supposed CHARGES of child abuse or neglect
> were REALLY criminal charges,
What would that matter?
> or just the usual old
> BS in Juvenile court? And if they were really just in
> Juvenile Court, they were NOT criminal charges, right?
What would that matter at this point in time?
If they didn't kill the worker, yep, you have quite and argument there.
If they did, you and your argument are down the shitter.
Did I ever mention you really DO think like a criminal..a con?
Looking for the angles, even ones so weak as to be laughable.
Who cares WHAT the were charged with at this point, Greg?
This is a kidnapping and murder investigation now.
The MEDIA is getting this information out and they are NOT getting it
from CPS.
It's coming from police and court records. The former for sure, the
latter, most likely.
Both are public records.
Have you tried looking for them yourself?
We don't know enough at this point to entertain the claim I think you
want to make...that the poor parent, mom, was forced into murdering the
worker to get her child back.
Do you approve of her doing that?
0:->
Greegor
> I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
> (as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
K:
> Yes, that's possible. It may be a civil family court judge made the
> call based on CPS reports.
> So?
Juvenile Courts have absolutely NO jurisdiction for
any sort of criminal charge.
Calling their spew a CHARGE is dishonest.
> > Do you think these supposed CHARGES of child abuse or neglect
> > were REALLY criminal charges,
>
> What would that matter?
It's all about a little thing called objective TRUTH.
> You are talking about two people that now heavily implicated in a
> particularly brutal murder, Greg.
>
> Don't you think you ought to hold off on your arguments supporting them
> until you have more of the story?
They sure look GUILTY, but WHY then
are authorities telling LIES by calling
what Juvenile Court does "CHARGES"?
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> G:
> > I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
> > (as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
>
> K:
> > Yes, that's possible. It may be a civil family court judge made the
> > call based on CPS reports.
> > So?
>
> Juvenile Courts have absolutely NO jurisdiction for
> any sort of criminal charge.
Mmmm...I didn't say they did. I said, "made the call."
If she were charged with a civil violation then she was "charged." Is
that not so.
> Calling their spew a CHARGE is dishonest.
Really? I'll let my local judge know that when the prosecutor steps up
with the charges of child abuse to remind him the correct terminology
is "spew."
In fact, I know both well, so I think I'll tell the Prosecutor myself.
He'll be so grateful I'm sure he'll want to thank you.
> > > Do you think these supposed CHARGES of child abuse or neglect
> > > were REALLY criminal charges,
> >
> > What would that matter?
>
> It's all about a little thing called objective TRUTH.
It's all about a thing called YOU pursuing, as you did with the
Christines, excuses for threating death, and in this case likely
causing death.
> > You are talking about two people that now heavily implicated in a
> > particularly brutal murder, Greg.
> >
> > Don't you think you ought to hold off on your arguments supporting them
> > until you have more of the story?
>
> They sure look GUILTY,
I don't care what they look like.
But if they look guilty to you why are you running supportive
interference for them?
> but WHY then
> are authorities telling LIES by calling
> what Juvenile Court does "CHARGES"?
What do you call the action detailing the violations, " hiccups?"
And if you recall, I pointed out to you that CPS is not involved in
this information about charges.
It would come from court records and police records, where the media
CAN get the information without either the court or the police
violating HIPAA. And likely state confidentiality laws.
So, you are unhappy with what the court and the police might call
"violations" and their use of the word 'charges.'
Do you have any idea what a hapless twit you appear, in a case where a
child is at risk, and a women was murdered likely as part of the
actions related to the taking of the child?
You never cease to expose yourself, do you, Greg?
0:->
Greegor
> I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
> (as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
K:
> Yes, that's possible. It may be a civil family court judge made the
> call based on CPS reports.
> So?
Greg wrote
> Juvenile Courts have absolutely NO jurisdiction for
> any sort of criminal charge.
Kane wrote
> Mmmm...I didn't say they did. I said, "made the call."
> If she were charged with a civil violation then she was "charged." Is
> that not so.
Nope. Criminal=CHARGE, Civil=COMPLAINT.
> > Calling their spew a CHARGE is dishonest.
>
> Really? I'll let my local judge know that when the prosecutor steps up
> with the charges of child abuse to remind him the correct terminology
> is "spew."
If it's in Juvenile Court, please DO!
Juvenile Court has no jurisdiction over CRIMINAL CHARGES.
> In fact, I know both well, so I think I'll tell the Prosecutor myself.
> He'll be so grateful I'm sure he'll want to thank you.
Tell him you're a RESEARCHER also! ROFL!
Kane wrote
> But if they look guilty to you why are you running supportive
> interference for them?
Supportive interference?
In a newsgroup?
For noticing CPS accusations were publicized as "CHARGES"?
Yer a nut case!
<snip>
> And if you recall, I pointed out to you that CPS is not involved in
> this information about charges.
> It would come from court records and police records, where the media
> CAN get the information without either the court or the police
> violating HIPAA. And likely state confidentiality laws.
> So, you are unhappy with what the court and the police might call
> "violations" and their use of the word 'charges.'
Oh Yeah! Like CPS has NOTHING to do with this!? Of course!
> Do you have any idea what a hapless twit you appear, in a case where a
> child is at risk, and a women was murdered likely as part of the
> actions related to the taking of the child?
Apparently the cops don't think the child is in danger!
> You never cease to expose yourself, do you, Greg?
Sorry I'm not a PR Whore like you.
Not everything I say is CALCULATED for effect.
I do not decide that telling lies is ethical or moral.
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> G:
> > I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
> > (as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
>
> K:
> > Yes, that's possible. It may be a civil family court judge made the
> > call based on CPS reports.
> > So?
>
> Greg wrote
> > Juvenile Courts have absolutely NO jurisdiction for
> > any sort of criminal charge.
>
> Kane wrote
> > Mmmm...I didn't say they did. I said, "made the call."
> > If she were charged with a civil violation then she was "charged." Is
> > that not so.
>
> Nope. Criminal=CHARGE, Civil=COMPLAINT.
In family or juvenile court?
Here, look it up. I've driven half way to the water:
Family Court
Special family court judges hear all cases involving juvenile
delinquency charges; neglect and abuse charges; termination of parental
rights and adoptions; ...
www.nccourts.org/Citizens/CPrograms/Family/Default.asp - 16k - Cached -
Similar pages
AOC FAQ
A. Cases assigned to Family Court include juvenile delinquency
charges; neglect and abuse charges; termination of parental rights and
adoptions; ...
www.nccourts.org/Support/FAQs/FAQs.asp?Type=5&language=1 - 19k -
Cached - Similar pages
Act Now to Stop Family Violence
All had the same three complaints about family court - regardless of
which state's court system ... Fewer than two percent involved
child-sex-abuse charges. ...
www.stopfamilyviolence.org/ocean/host.php?page=246 - 57k - Cached -
Similar pages
Rhode Island news | projo.com | The Providence Journal | Rhode ...
Family Court Chief Judge Jeremiah S. Jeremiah released Ledoux on $5000
personal recognizance ... He is due back in court on the child abuse
charges on Dec. ...
www.projo.com/ri/woonsocket/content/projo_20060929_wcop29.320580c.html
- 52k - Cached - Similar pages
I see seven times the word "charges" are used in discussing family
court.
Yes, you may also use "complaint" if you wish. But "charges" is not
unusual or in any way sinister, Greg. Though I think you are.
>
> > > Calling their spew a CHARGE is dishonest.
> >
> > Really? I'll let my local judge know that when the prosecutor steps up
> > with the charges of child abuse to remind him the correct terminology
> > is "spew."
>
> If it's in Juvenile Court, please DO!
> Juvenile Court has no jurisdiction over CRIMINAL CHARGES.
When did I say they did?
Are you aware though that you are wrong.
You guys get a little bit of knowledge, usually connected to something
personal, that you've no reason to research further, and you assume you
asses, that YOUR case applies to all cases.
First State Judiciary - Criminal Cases in the Family Court
A complaint is a written statement of the alleged key facts that forms
the charges. Complaints are appropriate for Family Court when the
defendant is less ...
courts.delaware.gov/How%20To/court%20proceedings/?fc_criminal.htm - 21k
- Cached - Similar pages
> > In fact, I know both well, so I think I'll tell the Prosecutor myself.
> > He'll be so grateful I'm sure he'll want to thank you.
>
> Tell him you're a RESEARCHER also! ROFL!
He knows that. He is a client sometimes.
> Kane wrote
> > But if they look guilty to you why are you running supportive
> > interference for them?
>
> Supportive interference?
You seem to be arguing that the couple are innocent based on Evil
Kentucky CPS, is that not correct?
> In a newsgroup?
That is where we are, is it not?
> For noticing CPS accusations were publicized as "CHARGES"?
Yep.
> Yer a nut case!
Since that IS the language of the courts, and there was NO mention of
CPS whatsoever, other than as the agency providing services, such as
foster care and visitation (we don't know how that child came to them
at this point, and it could have been due to criminal charges), I guess
your claim that "charges" is inaccurate is, well, quite inaccurate.
>
> <snip>
>
> > And if you recall, I pointed out to you that CPS is not involved in
> > this information about charges.
> > It would come from court records and police records, where the media
> > CAN get the information without either the court or the police
> > violating HIPAA. And likely state confidentiality laws.
> > So, you are unhappy with what the court and the police might call
> > "violations" and their use of the word 'charges.'
>
> Oh Yeah! Like CPS has NOTHING to do with this!? Of course!
At this point, unless you have seen media releases I've missed, we do
not know any more than they provided foster care, and visitation
services, and may possibly have been the investigating agency in the
neglect CHARGES.
We don't know what injuries happened to the child so we don't know if
there was a civil case or a criminal case, and CPS can only be as
involved as the law and the courts allow and order.
> > Do you have any idea what a hapless twit you appear, in a case where a
> > child is at risk, and a women was murdered likely as part of the
> > actions related to the taking of the child?
>
> Apparently the cops don't think the child is in danger!
We are all keeping our fingers crossed.
>
> > You never cease to expose yourself, do you, Greg?
>
> Sorry I'm not a PR Whore like you.
Sorry, but you are. Just for the other side. The one that claims all
parents are innocent, until of course, CPS can be blamed, then suddenly
they are guilty but with your foregiveness because CPS puckered up.
> Not everything I say is CALCULATED for effect.
Bullshit. You have been suckin' off Doan so hard lately we can here it
two thousand miles away.
> I do not decide that telling lies is ethical or moral.
What do you decide then?
That if you had a child and that child was in danger and the only way
you could save that child would be to lie, you'd instead tell the
truth?
I see.
0:->
0:->
On Oct 18, 2:31 pm, "Greegor" <Greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kane, When a government agent reports that a citizen
> has a "history" of something, they have a bit more
> legal responsibility for accuracy than a mere citizen, right?
>
> I am not an "official".
>
> The ONLY ""history"" either one had was CHARGES.
> These could include ten year old DROPPED charges
> or charges filed last week.
>
> I'm betting that there really were no CHARGES
> (as in criminal) of child abuse or neglect.
You lose:
On Oct 18, 7:25 pm, "Dan Sullivan" <dsull...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Greegor wrote:
> > Isn't it a bit strange that the supposed Child Abuse and Neglect
> > "charges" weren't mentioned??The baby was removed due to neglect.
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=5552170
<<Back
Mom Named In Amber Alert Had Children Taken Away Before
Oct 17, 2006 03:36 PM
By Anne Marshall
(LOUISVILLE) -- We are learning more about how a social worker in
Henderson died while she supervised a visit with a mother and her
10-month-old baby. Boni Frederick, 67, died of blunt force trauma to
the head. She was found dead in the Henderson home of Saige Terrell's
mother. Saige's siblings have also been removed from the mother's care.
WAVE 3's Anne Marshall has the latest.
Police departments all over the region -- including LMPD -- were
immediately notified of the Amber Alert. The FBI is also involved.
We're told police have received many tips, including one placing the
family in western Illinois.
Police say Renee Terrell has been convicted of child abuse and
endangerment charges in New York, and has had other children taken away
in the past. ...
Sorry.
0:->
0:->
on not losing any sleep of all workers were dead.
I'm sure that will help her deal better with the loss.
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=5556177
Slain Social Worker's Daughter Pleads For Baby's Safe Return
Oct 18, 2006 09:03 AM
(LOUISVILLE) -- Police were still searching Wednesday for a
10-month-old boy who was abducted by his mother and her boyfriend in
Henderson, Kentucky. The two are also wanted in connection with the
murder of the boy's social worker, 67-year-old Boni Frederick.
Frederick was killed sometime Monday afternoon when she brought the
boy, 10-month-old Saige Terrell, to visit his mother, 33-year-old Renee
Terrell.
Now the Frederick's daughter, Sandy Travis, is making a plea for the
baby's safe return.
"I really don't have any feelings towards them, but if they do see
this, I ask that they please bring that baby and give to somebody to
take care of it," Travis said. "And if they find in their heart -- to
turn themselves in because I don't think they realized what kind of
person they took." ...
For the full story:
http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=5556177
Greegor
> In fact, I know both well, so I think I'll tell the Prosecutor myself.
> He'll be so grateful I'm sure he'll want to thank you.
Greg wrote
> Tell him you're a RESEARCHER also! ROFL!
Kane wrote
> He knows that. He is a client sometimes.
You sell yourself as an unbiased expert witness, no doubt.
Do they know you lie when it's "ethical" or "moral" in your mind?
0:->
> Kane wrote
>> In fact, I know both well, so I think I'll tell the Prosecutor myself.
>> He'll be so grateful I'm sure he'll want to thank you.
>
> Greg wrote
>> Tell him you're a RESEARCHER also! ROFL!
>
> Kane wrote
>> He knows that. He is a client sometimes.
>
> You sell yourself as an unbiased expert witness, no doubt.
Nope. I've never been a witness in child abuse case. Once in an injury
complaint on the side of the plaintiff. But I was not billed as an Expert.
> Do they know you lie when it's "ethical" or "moral" in your mind?
Nope. The standards I use for that are well established, and negated by
making an oath to tell the truth in court.
I will not lie to protect the guilty or those accused DULY in a court of
law, but I will to protect the innocent from physical injury or death
in public exchanges.
I've explained this a number of times, and like Doan you will continue
to lie about it.
You folks have an interesting moral code.
0:->
Greegor
> He knows that. He is a client sometimes.
A prosecutor hires you but you are not an expert witness?
What's the prosecutor hiring you for? Sex?
0:->
> Kane wrote
>> He knows that. He is a client sometimes.
>
> A prosecutor hires you but you are not an expert witness?
I didn't say he hires me as a witness, now did I?
>
> What's the prosecutor hiring you for? Sex?
>
You and your cronies seem to have that on the brain.
What's wrong, Lisa cut you off for the duration?
You asked me, and I told you already. You are just lying.
Research is not the same as being a witness.
And I'm expert in the field he has me research.
0:->
Xavier O’Mack
> http://tinyurl.com/yze8ym
> Yahoo! News
> Social worker found dead in Ky. home
> 2 hours, 1 minute ago
> Police found a social worker dead in a western Kentucky home and issued
> an Amber Alert for the 10-month-old boy the woman had taken to the
> house for a visit with his mother, authorities said.
> The child's mother, Renee Terrell, 33, of Henderson, did not have
> custody of her developmentally disabled son, police said. She and her
> boyfriend, Christopher Wayne Luttrell, 23, were both missing and were
> believed to have the child.
> Henderson police were called Monday when the social worker didn't
> return to work after taking the baby for a visit with the mother, Sgt.
> John Nevels told The Gleaner newspaper of Henderson.
> The social worker was identified as Boni Frederick, 67, of Morganfield,
> who worked for the Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services.
> Nevels declined to comment on the cause of Frederick's death but said
> "it was a violent attack." An autopsy was scheduled for Tuesday.
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I hope that Renée Terrell gets liberated!