One may only hope ...
0:->
convicted. Or, that life without parole would be at least the next
best.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/30/parents.charged.ap/index.html
Prosecutor: Tape-wrapped boy left in closet to die
POSTED: 3:42 p.m. EDT, August 30, 2006
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CINCINNATI, Ohio (AP) -- The foster parents of a disabled 3-year-old
boy wrapped him like a cocoon and left him for two days in a closet,
where he died while they attended a family reunion, a prosecutor said.
The couple made several attempts to burn Marcus Fiesel's body and
concocted an elaborate sham to cover up the boy's death, Hamilton
County Prosecutor Joe Deters said Tuesday.
"Marcus was wrapped in a blanket and wrapped in tape with his arms
behind him -- and this was not the first time," Deters said in
announcing additional indictments against Liz and David Carroll Jr.
(Watch why the prosecutor thinks the child was screaming for help --
8:48)
A grand jury indicted the couple Monday on charges of involuntary
manslaughter and child endangerment, and David Carroll, 35, on a charge
of gross abuse of a corpse. ...
Dan Sullivan
Little boy's death touched many
Taken from Cincinnati.com
Elfish grin.
Ocean-blue eyes.
A carpet of shiny brown hair framing his face.
>From the photographs, Marcus Fiesel looked happy, a child full of
mischief.
But Marcus' life was anything but idyllic away from the camera's
lens.
Six days after the boy's foster parents were hauled off to jail,
charged with killing him in a crime so chilling it stunned the region,
the clearest picture yet of the 3-year-old is emerging.
At age 1, he lived in a flea-infested home that reeked of mold and
feces.
More than once, police had come to the house when Marcus' mother,
Donna Trevino, called to complain that her boyfriend was hitting her or
threatening to.
On one visit, the house smelled so bad that police asked Trevino where
the animals were.
There weren't any, she told them.
Police were so concerned about the mass of flea bites covering the arms
and legs of Marcus' 9-year-old brother, Michael, that they strongly
suggested the family move.
By the time Marcus was 2, police were still responding to domestic
problems at his mother's home. During a visit on Sept. 29, 2005, they
found severe bruising on Marcus' left buttock.
Police weren't the only ones worried.
Child welfare workers were investigating complaints from Trevino about
physical abuse, too, reports show.
As he approached his third birthday, a foster family in Clermont County
offered Marcus a safe, new life away from the turmoil with his mom.
That's not how things turned out.
Last week, Liz and David Carroll Jr. were accused of pinning the small
boy's arms behind his back, wrapping him in a blanket and encasing
his slight form in tape. They wrapped him like a mummy in a small
5-by-7-foot closet with a fan and took off for a family reunion in
Kentucky, police say. The temperature was in the high 80s and low 90s.
He was dead when they returned.
In life, Marcus hardly had a chance.
In death, he captivated the hearts of thousands of strangers.
In death, he's changing the way the state handles foster-care
placements.
In death, a park will be named after him.
HIS SMILE IS GONE
The sparkle in Marcus' eyes was extinguished sometime during the
first weekend in August, authorities say.
Left alone in the closet over two days, Marcus' cries turned to
whimpers, his breathing grew shallow, he closed his eyes and finally
died, authorities say.
To look back at the life of Marcus is to look at a life of contrasts.
He was born to a mother who ran away from home as a young teenager.
Born Donna Fiesel, Trevino married young. She's had three children by
three different men.
None of the fathers has anything to do with their children.
>From South Carolina, it's unclear how or why she ended up in
Middletown just a few years ago.
Marcus is the second of the three kids. At the time of his death, he
had the developmental skills of a youngster half his age.
Still, he had every bit the spirit of a 3-year-old.
He loved Bob the Builder. He loved bubbles. His favorite pillow had
pink and white stripes.
Trevino's friends say Marcus was autistic.
Before living with the Carrolls, he was enrolled in a school for
special needs children.
Marcus also loved flowers.
Neighbor Tammy Rosenbaum brought three tulips bulbs to Marcus' Grime
Street home this year. The family planted them near the back porch.
Rosenbaum remembered that Marcus would reach his hand through the
fence, snake it through the bushes and dutifully pluck the heads off
the tulips to give his mother.
Other times he would press his face against the fence so Rosenbaum's
miniature pinscher Smokey could cover his face with wet kisses.
"He was just so sweet," said Rosenbaum, who often caught Marcus
peering at her from his bedroom window only to duck when their eyes met
or she waved to him. "He was just an awesome little guy."
He was also a handful and too much for Trevino, 37, who receives a
monthly Social Security disability check. "Marcus had severe learning
difficulties," said Latosha Hunt, a friend and former neighbor. "No
matter how you scolded him, he would go back and do it."
TROUBLED HOUSEHOLD
Authorities with Butler County Children Services Board have been
involved with the Fiesel children since Marcus was at least 1.
When Marcus was 2, police were called to the family's Grimes Street
home to investigate a child-abuse complaint by a family caseworker.
Records indicate police were investigating a complaint that Trevino's
then live-in boyfriend, Miguel Rivera, spanked Marcus so hard he left
severe bruising in his upper left buttock area.
Marcus could not explain how he got the bruise. Rivera was never
arrested, but he was ordered to stay away from the kids. Efforts to
reach him were unsuccessful.
Marcus first made headlines on Jan. 4 this year when he crawled out his
second-story window and toppled off the roof. The fall sliced open his
chin and required multiple stitches.
Police say Hunt, the neighbor and friend, had opened a window to air
out his bedroom because Marcus had soiled himself.
Police say the window's lock was broken, and Marcus must have opened
it and crawled out.
Middletown juvenile detective Bobby Reece met Marcus the following
morning.
When Reece started heading up the stairs to check out the window,
Marcus playfully raced past him.
"He beat us," Reece recalled with a chuckle last week. "He went
to the window and he was looking out it. And at that point, you could
tell he was a handful (for Trevino) especially with the other kids (in
her care), too.
"He had some stitches in his chin, but he was like a champ. It seemed
like it didn't even faze him. Most kids would be like,
"Boo-hoo-hoo," underneath their mom's arms and laying on their
laps, but not Marcus. He was full of life."
Marcus' energy was too much for Trevino.
Rosenbaum occasionally saw her crying on the front porch, exhausted
from trying to keep up with the boy.
"She'd be chasing him up and down the sidewalk. He'd be sitting
there with her one second and the next second he'd be gone,"
Rosenbaum said. "He was as fast as lightning. She was overwhelmed. It
would be late in the evening, and she'd say, 'Oh I hope they are
asleep.' I think she was trying but I don't think she knew what to
do. I just think he was a lot more than she could handle by herself."
GIVING MARCUS UP
Trevino finally admitted defeat in April when Marcus was found
wandering along a busy street and narrowly missed being hit by a car.
Police described deplorable living conditions in Marcus' room. The
boy slept on a 2-inch foam mat. Feces were on the walls and carpet. A
homemade gate was meant to keep him from leaving the room.
Trevino "made statements to the officer that she didn't know if she
could care for her children any more and that it was getting to be too
much for her," a Middletown police report said.
"'They were our problem now,'" the report quotes her as saying.
Trevino's friends said she thought handing over Marcus and his
brother and sister to Butler County was in their best interests.
Trevino planned to sign away her parental rights to Marcus later this
month. She now sees her son, Michael, 11, and daughter, Peaches, 1,
weekly, her friends say. They're in foster care elsewhere. She hopes
to be reunited with them soon.
"She done everything, she didn't know what else to do. Even the
church was trying to help her. We did everything we knew to do," said
Teri Cavolt, Trevino's closest friend.
That's not the view Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters takes.
"If she had paid half as much attention to Marcus before as she is
now, we wouldn't be in this situation," Deters said during a press
conference Friday when asked about a possible Trevino lawsuit over
Marcus' death.
Deters also said he and Clermont County Prosecutor Don White are
looking for life sentences against Liz and David Carroll Jr.
In court last week, Trevino rocked and cried as the Carrolls said they
were not guilty of the crime.
"That was my kid. What they did to him is what needs to be done to
them," she said in court. On Friday, Trevino backed out of an
interview with The Enquirer for this story.
The callousness of the crime has sparked outrage and a public clamor
for tough sentences.
After Marcus died in the closet, police say David Carroll Jr. brought
the body to an old chimney in Brown County, poured gasoline on it and
burned it.
Investigators say he did this three times to ensure the remains would
be gone forever.
But to the legions of people touched by Marcus, no amount of gasoline
can erase the images of his elfish grin, ocean-blue eyes and mop of
shiny, brown hair.
Add comment September 3rd, 2006
Mother of Marcus Fiesel to Hold Press Conference
Donna Trevino, Marcus's birth mother, is holding a press conference
this afternoon at 3:30.
Marcus was taken from her when he was found walking around in the
street one afternoon. This was not the first time something like this
had happened under her care.
After taken from her, Trevino made no attempt to see her son. When it
was announced he was missing, she didn't step up and give her all to
find him. Instead, she remained quiet.
Now that it looks as though she can get money if she sues the company
that placed Marcus with the Liz and David Carroll, she decides to hold
a press conference.
Donna Trevino isn't addressing the public because she feels a great
loss because of Marcus's death, she is not addressing the public
because she is begging for a change in the Foster Care services, and
she is not addressing the public to urge a murder conviction. Donna
Trevino is trying to make money out of the loss of Marcus Fiesel's
life.
If she cared about him, she would have been out there searching like
mad to find him when it was reported that he had wandered off from the
park. She would have been visiting him and communicating with his
foster parents when he was taken from her. She would have been
investigating what kinds of people Liz and David Carroll were, since
her child was under their care.
But she didn't do any of this. She stayed silent until he was
confirmed dead, and then she holds a press conference. Donna Trevino
is no better than Marcus's murderers if she tries to cash in on his
death.
2 comments September 1st, 2006
Bond set at $10.1 million each
The highest bond ever for Hamilton county was set yesterday for Liz and
David Carroll, Jr. - $10.1 million each.
The Carroll's pleaded not guilty to all of the charges brought before
them including:
involuntary manslaughter
2 counts of child endangering
making false alrams
2 counts of inducing panic
Additionally, David Carroll pleaded not guilty to charges of gross
abuse of a corpse and Liz Carroll pleaded not guilty to 2 perjury
charges.
At present, if convicted David Carroll, Jr. faces up to 25 years in
prison and Liz Carroll faces up tp 24. However, more serious homicide
charges are promised by Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deeters.
Anderson Township is collecting money to help create a memorial
playground at Beech Acres park, a park for children with developmental
and physical handicaps, below is the information for donations.
People who want to donate money in memory of Marcus Fiesel to complete
the construction of a playground at Beech Acres Park in Anderson
Township for children with disabilities can do so at any Fifth Third
Bank branch. A Fifth Third account has been set up for the Anderson
Foundation for Parks and Recreation.
The Anderson Foundation is an arm of the Anderson Park District.
Donations also can be sent to the Anderson Foundation for Parks and
Recreation, 8249 Clough Pike, Cincinnati, Ohio 45244.
Add comment August 31st, 2006
What is wrong with people?
Two weeks ago today all of the news stations in Cincinnati began
running updates on a 3-year-old boy with Autism who was at the park
with his mother and three other children when he wandered off and was
missing. The support from the community was overwhelming and thousands
of people donated their time and energy to search for Marcus Fiesel.
The family held a couple press conferences and the more they were
plastered across the television screen, the more the facts didn't
line up and the less credible they became.
Last night, Marcus Fiesel's body was found in a chimney in a
neighboring county.
Here is the timetable of what authorities speculate has happened (taken
from The Cincinnati Enquirrer):
Aug. 3. -Marcus Fiesel's social worker visits Liz and David Carroll
Jr. and sees the 3-year-old boy from Middletown for the last time.
Aug. 4 -Liz and David Carroll Jr. leave Marcus "restrained'' in a
closet in their Union Township, Clermont County, home, and leave for a
family reunion in Williamstown, Ky., Hamilton County prosecutor Joe
Deters reveals Aug. 28.
Aug. 6 -The Carrolls return home to find Marcus dead, and David Carroll
Jr. takes the child's body to Brown County and burns it, according to
Deters.
Aug. 10 - Marcus' social worker arrives at the Carroll home, but is
told he is sick. The social worker leaves without seeing Marcus.
Aug. 15 -A Hamilton County dispatcher receives a 911 call reporting a
woman unconscious in Juilfs Park in Anderson Township, with three small
children nearby.
Liz Carroll is taken to Mercy Anderson Hospital. David Carroll Jr.
arrives and tells authorities about Marcus. An alert about a missing
child goes out in Anderson Township, and hundreds of volunteers begin
to appear. The search continues around the clock.
Aug. 16 - Hundreds more volunteers join the search. Police search the
Carrolls' home and remove some items. Liz Carroll talks to reporters
from her hospital bed.
She suggests park workers lost Marcus. The volunteer search is called
off at 8 p.m.
Aug. 17 - Police bring in dive teams, police dogs and mounted officers.
They urge anyone who saw Marcus in the park to come forward.
Aug. 18 - Liz Carroll leaves the hospital. Restaurateur Jeff Ruby
announces a $10,000 reward for information leading to Marcus or anyone
who hurt him.
Aug. 19 -The Carrolls move from their Union Township house.
Aug. 20 -Marcus' siblings, who have been placed with other foster
parents, are taken away from their foster parents by Butler County
authorities after their foster father received a DUI in Kentucky while
the children are in his car. Butler County authorities launch a review
of cases handled by Lifeway for Youth, the agency that recruited and
trained the Carrolls and placed Marcus with them.
Aug. 21 -Liz Carroll says her Clermont County day-care certificate was
taken away.
Aug. 22 -Police say Liz Carroll reported a Lifeway caseworker saw
Marcus on Aug. 10. She describes adults she saw in the park. She says
her husband failed a lie-detector test. She calls Marcus "my son. I
know 100 percent he was at the park with me - and my husband, myself,
nobody harmed him."
Aug. 23 -Police release more photos of Marcus. Clermont, Hamilton,
Butler and Warren counties halt placements through Lifeway and remove
some clients from Lifeway-trained foster parents.
Aug. 24 - Butler County officials reveal that the caseworker who was
supposed to see Marcus on Aug. 10 was told the boy was sick and was
turned away.
Aug. 25 - Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis says he doubts Marcus is
alive.
Aug. 28 - Liz Carroll and Amy Baker, a live-in girlfriend, are called
before a Hamilton County grand jury. Liz and David Carroll Jr. are each
indicted on one count of involuntary manslaughter and two counts of
child endangering. David Carroll Jr. also faces one charge of abuse of
a corpse. They are arrested and jailed. Investigators search in Brown
County for the boy's remains.
There is so much about this story that upsets me. The biggest thing
being that they were foster parents. If they didn't want the kid,
all they had to do was say so and give him back. They didn't have to
kill him.
In one of the news articles I read, David Carroll's
step-sister/cousin (I am not making that up, sorry to say) said that he
often said that he hated Marcus because he took all of Amy and Liz's
attention. He is a child with autism, what did he think was going to
happen when they took him in?
And the guy was living with his wife and his girlfriend??? I'm not
even going to comment on that.
These people make me sick.
dragonsgirl
care is too little much too late?
"0:->" <pohak...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157584661.6...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
0:->
> Shall I be the first to say that changes in the way the state handles foster
> care is too little much too late?
I'd say it goes without saying.
What would the changes be that we would like to see, and what would it cost?
I was behind a failed attempt in one state, Oregon, to professionalize
foster care: that ALL foster providers would be fully trained in college
course work and field work (at least a year internship under direct
supervision while in contact with a foster child -- and NOT in a
placement with them, but in a licensed professional foster home with the
that provider mentoring the student); that the certified licensed
provider be salaried, and subject to MORE supervision than is currently
the case. And, of course, that no foster provider could have more than
three children at once, except in cases of sibling groups.
Having worked in a mental health setting with children that mostly were
wards of the state I KNEW what it took to parent and keep safe these
children. Duct tape was not part of our treatment kit.
Kane
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin (or someone else)
Greegor
Anti-CPS people brought up this story a week ago!
It's so funny to see you people saying a change is needed.
Of course, Kane lobbies for MORE MONEY, ever the industry lobbyist.
The Child Protection INDUSTRY is the ONLY industry
I ever heard of that constantly tries to jack up their own
funding based on their failures.
Why were comments about repairing Foster Care
not cross posted to that newsgroup?
Thread title: Fosties murder toddler
1 From: Huge Value Date: Tues, Aug 29 2006 3:13 pm
Foster Parents Charged in Toddler Death
By DAN SEWELL, Associated Press Writer
Monday, August 28, 2006
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/08/28/national/a142...
08-28) 18:49 PDT CINCINNATI (AP) --
The foster parents who reported a 3-year-old developmentally disabled
boy
missing were charged Monday in his death, and the foster father was
accused
of burning his body.
Liz and David Carroll Jr. are accused of leaving the boy in a closet in
their home just east of Cincinnati while they went to a family reunion
in
Kentucky on Aug. 4, Hamilton County prosecutor Joe Deters said.
Investigators believe Marcus Fiesel was dead when the couple returned
home
two days later, Deters said. David Carroll took the boy's body to rural
Brown County and burned it, Deters said.
Authorities were searching Monday in rural Brown County, southeast of
Cincinnati, for his remains, Deters said. He declined to discuss other
details of the investigation that led to the indictments.
The couple reported the boy missing from a suburban park Aug. 15,
saying he
wandered off after Liz Carroll passed out because of a heart condition.
A Hamilton County grand jury indicted the Carrolls on charges of
involuntary
manslaughter and endangering children, and David Carroll was charged
with
gross abuse of a corpse.
The Carrolls were arrested separately and jailed Monday, he said. A
message
seeking information on their court appearances and legal representation
was
left Monday evening with the Hamilton County sheriff's office.
The boy's disappearance triggered a search that brought hundreds of
volunteers. Police later questioned why no witnesses reported seeing
Marcus
in the park.
Marcus had the mental ability of a child 12 to 18 months old, David
Carroll
said. The boy joined the family in May and had a history of wandering
off,
he said.
"We are extremely saddened and outraged about the untimely death of
Marcus
Fiesel," Jann Heffner, executive director of Butler County Children's
Services, said in a news release.
The county agency contracted with Lifeway for Youth, a private
organization
that provides training for foster parents and placement for abused and
neglected children.
Director Michael Berner told WCPO-TV that Lifeway did background and
police
checks on the Carrolls before they became foster parents.
"We're all heartbroken up here," Berner said. "These people passed
muster;
they pulled the wool over everyone's eyes."
2 From: Greegor - Date: Tues, Aug 29 2006 7:55 pm
http://www.nbc5.com/news/9753080/detail.html
PHOTOS of Marcus Fiesel and the Fosters at that link.
Police: 'Missing' Toddler Killed By Foster Parents
Foster Mom Claimed Boy Vanished At Park
POSTED: 5:28 am CDT August 29, 2006 UPDATED: 6:17 am CDT August 29,
2006
LEWIS TOWNSHIP, Ohio -- The Ohio foster parents who reported a
3-year-old developmentally disabled boy had vanished now are charged
with causing his death.
Images: Toddler Found Dead
Marcus Fiesel's disappearance had triggered a massive search by
volunteers. Authorities now said the boy was left in a closet while his
foster parents went to a family reunion in Williamsburg, Ky., on Aug.
4.
The authorities said the boy was dead when the couple returned home two
days later. The foster father, David Carroll Jr., is accused of burning
his body.
Prosecutor Joe Deters said the couple worked out a story before they
reported Marcus missing Aug. 15.
Liz Carroll told investigators that she passed out at a Cincinnati park
Aug. 15 because of a heart condition and that the child disappeared
while she was unconscious. She insisted at a news conference last
Tuesday that several people saw the toddler with her at the park, but
no one came forward to verify her claim.
She also admitted at the news conference that detectives told her
husband he'd failed a lie-detector test.
In the words of the prosecutor: "You would not treat your dog like
this."
Deters said a social worker was turned away from the Carrolls' Union
Township home on Aug. 10 after they claimed the boy was sick. Another
scheduled visit with a social worker was pending, Deters said, possibly
prompting the false claim that Fiesel had disappeared at the park.
"They were running out of time," Deters said.
Just hours after the Hamilton County, Ohio, prosecutor announced the
arrest of the Carrolls, officials said the body of the couple's
3-year-old foster son was found.
Georgetown, Ohio, police said that the remains of Marcus Fiesel were
discovered on an 88-acre estate.
Deters said foster father David Carroll had taken the child's body to
Brown County, Ohio, and incinerated it.
Property owner Mike Cales said detectives from Hamilton, Clermont and
Brown counties asked his permission to collect evidence from the area
around a two-story stone chimney. He said the chimney is all that's
left of a home that hasn't been occupied since the 1960s.
"The fields have grown up all around it," Cales said.
David and Liz Carroll have each been charged with one count of
involuntary manslaughter and two counts of child endangerment. David
Carroll faces an additional charge of gross abuse of a corpse, and
Deters said more charges are possible.
"These charges are to keep them in custody," he said.
A woman who lived with the Carrolls could also be prosecuted.
"We believe everyone was aware. Everyone covered up," Deters said.
Private Foster-Placement Agency Remains Silent On Boy's Death
Lifeway for Youth worked with Butler County Children's Services to
place the developmentally disabled boy with the Carrolls.
"They should never had a child like this in their custody," Deters
said.
The private agency won't comment on the case, but a few former
employees said that Fiesel likely was placed with the Carrolls for the
money.
Lifeway gets paid for the number of children it places, and the former
employees said the cash is all that the organization cares about,
placing children as quickly as possible with whoever will take them,
according to WLWT-TV in Cincinnati.
A former caseworker said she was given 76 clients in her first month on
her job.
"Over the past three to four weeks, there have been some concerns
raised about some of the Lifeway homes, and as a result those children
have been moved into respite care," said Jann Heffner of Butler County
Children's Services.
Previous Story:
August 16, 2006: Toddler Vanishes When Foster Mom Faints At Park
dragonsgirl
> dragonsgirl wrote:
>> Shall I be the first to say that changes in the way the state handles
>> foster care is too little much too late?
>
> I'd say it goes without saying.
Truely.
>
> What would the changes be that we would like to see, and what would it
> cost?
I am very uncertain of cost. I simply don't have any idea what it costs to
staff, maintain electric, telephone, provide office supplies, etc etc. Too
big of a number for me to grasp in all honesty.
One of the biggest things that I have noticed about Social Services is that
they lack in supervision of foster care homes and providers.
Whether that be because of high case loads, underfunding, or lack of
interest I don't know...my guess would be a little of one and some of the
others.
There are many people who are involved in a case when a child is in foster
care...
DJO, GAL, CASA, Worker, Supervisor, Attorneys, WIC, Dr, Nurses, educators,
etc.
Were there some kind of effort to organize at least some of the above into a
group that would rotate visits with a child...face to face, just to see how
they are doing throughout the course of their foster care services, then
it's possible that there would not be so many children who fall through and
are abused and neglected and die in foster care.
I do not believe that once monthly visits are excessive.
There are guidelines for some of the above concerning visiting a child in
their home environment, but are they followed? Obviously not, else how is
it that so many are dying at the hands of foster care providers after abuse
has already been indicated in their foster home?
It also seems that fosters are not always held to the same standards of care
as biological families. It appears, from recent news stories (and old ones
as well) that care in foster homes vs care given at home is lacking a great
deal, yet sometimes it is passed off by social services for various reasons.
Another issue that could be preventative is that not all states are placing
children with families first. I believe that should be a mandate of EVERY
state...finding fit and willing kin, and placing children with them. It's
obvious that is not happening as it should. I see nothing wrong with
placing a child with relatives and opening a services based case just to
allow SS to see that the child fairs well in the home and head off any
problems at the pass.
On that subject, as well, are the guidelines for what constitues 'fit and
willing' a bit too stict? I know that in my own case the judge declared
that an altercation with a teen boy was not sufficient cause to remove a
child from his home. Issues like this can certainly be dealt with should SS
choose to do so in an effort to place a child with family. Parenting
classes, services based case, etc...it can be done.
I am uncertain of what the 'answers' are, but I do believe that contact
between child and SS during foster care stays seems to be limited enough to
allow abuse and neglect to go undetected or it is completely avoided by SS
in some cases.
I honestly believe that more contact with the home, providers, and children
would make a great impact, but making that happen is a big issue...the only
thing that I can come up with is that more people need to be personally
involved with the child, providers, home, and SS needs to take the concerns
of the bio family seriously when an accusation of abuse or neglect in foster
care is made.
Accountability is another issue.
Case goes to shit? Oh well. Toss it and move on.
No one is held accountable on a regular basis for the issues that arise when
a child in care is abused or neglected.
Primarily, as I have stated before, I place 'blame' on the parents for
allowing their child to have been removed in the first place (strictly
speaking of a child who has been abused or neglected at home, not a child
who's family has been falsely accused, etc) but when a child goes into care
(as Greg is fond of pointing out and I agree) the state is essentially
saying that they can take better care of a child than their family has.
Ok. If they can, nice, if they can't...well, I see the complete irony in
that.
The states must be held to a higher standard for care if they are to remove
children from families with a comperable ability as when the states have
shown they are capable of so far.
When they do not care for a child in a more efficient, responsible, and
appropriate way than the child's family has they should be held accountable,
especially when that lack of care results in abuse, neglect or death.
This is a serious issue.
Something should be in place to make sure that those on each case are
certain that they will be damn sorry if they flub up and let a child be
hurt.
>
> I was behind a failed attempt in one state, Oregon, to professionalize
> foster care: that ALL foster providers would be fully trained in college
> course work and field work (at least a year internship under direct
> supervision while in contact with a foster child -- and NOT in a placement
> with them, but in a licensed professional foster home with the that
> provider mentoring the student); that the certified licensed provider be
> salaried, and subject to MORE supervision than is currently the case. And,
> of course, that no foster provider could have more than three children at
> once, except in cases of sibling groups.
>
> Having worked in a mental health setting with children that mostly were
> wards of the state I KNEW what it took to parent and keep safe these
> children. Duct tape was not part of our treatment kit.
I am certain it wasn't.
I would be more than curous to know exactly what was going through these
people's minds when they came upon the idea of leaving a child in a closet
for two days.
What made them think it was ok?
What made them think that taping the child up was ok?
Beyond me.
Betty
dragonsgirl
who have posted to this thread.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I will tell you again, I am not
'pro-cps'.
And that's just for starters.
Since you ask...
Last week I was not home to correspond with anyone in the NG.
I took a nice, long, leisurely trip south...hopping through Memphis (one of
my favorite cities), spent the night in Tupelo (didn't know that place
closed up at 6 nightly), strolled on down to Columbus...that's where Ft
Benning is, the place where my son graduated basic training on the 30th of
last month. Stayed there three days, then wound up in Chattanooga at the
crappiest hotel I have ever been in in my life.
From there we drove through Nashville, and on back into the Ozarks.
Regardless of what anyone may, or may not have posted last week with what
title, I was not here to see it and disregarded most of the past posts when
I returned.
As for cross posting to 'foster care'...I do not post to that group, so I
should not be the person you would ask.
Do you have something of value to contribute, or do you just want to bitch
and whine?
"Greegor" <Gre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157747859.2...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> Why did you pro-CPS geeks wait a week so bunch up on this?
> Anti-CPS people brought up this story a week ago!
I missed seeing the posts concerning it. And you, you only mentioned it
once and did not bother at the time to draw special attention to it.
This is the tactic of passive agressives, commonly comes with
narcisism. You wait for someone to overlook something, or make a simple
mistake then jump on it with innuendo and insinuation that they are,
with evil intent, ignoring something or mistaken about something.
Usually you, and Doan, like to call it a "lie," when your doing so IS a
lie in itself.
Now apologize like a good boy, and follow what we have been saying
about it, AND DEBATE THAT STUPID.
You are simply, in your ego centricism, screaming to be paid attention
to instead of entering into a reasonable exchange about the issue.
Funny Doug never notices that about you. 0:->
What do you think of the discussion, so far, between DG and myself
about some possible fixes?
And you didn't even welcome Dan back. boohoo.
R9 or (R R R R R R R R R)
0:->
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> Why did you pro-CPS geeks wait a week so bunch up on this?
> Anti-CPS people brought up this story a week ago!
>
> It's so funny to see you people saying a change is needed.
> Of course, Kane lobbies for MORE MONEY, ever the industry lobbyist.
Can you think of some changes that can be accomplished, that would work
specifically on this problem (you first have to identify what the
problem is that ended in the boy being killed by the foster parents)
that would not cost more money.
Do hurry as we do not want this happening again.
Kane
0:->
Greegor wrote:
> Why did you pro-CPS geeks wait a week so bunch up on this?
> Anti-CPS people brought up this story a week ago!
>
> It's so funny to see you people saying a change is needed.
> Of course, Kane lobbies for MORE MONEY, ever the industry lobbyist.
>
> The Child Protection INDUSTRY is the ONLY industry
> I ever heard of that constantly tries to jack up their own
> funding based on their failures.
>
> Why were comments about repairing Foster Care
> not cross posted to that newsgroup?
Why was the story orginally, by Huge Value, and YOU in your reply to
him, not posted to the foster parents group, Greg?
Repairing foster care isn't really within the complete or primary
perview of foster parents. Though they sure try hard enough. CPS, and
that IS part of this ngs name, is.
Many would like to see foster care, as I do and have said before,
professionalized, rather than privitized (the main cause of the problem
as I see it in this case, next to murderous stupid care givers).
You are frothing at the mouth you are so hungry for attention, Greg.
Has it occurred to you that you get attention if you learn to debate
and provide proofs etc. rather than just ask idiotic questions that are
supposed to make us believe your opponents are evil?
Why don't you argue with me about the problems of professionalizing
foster care, or about the costs of doing so, or about your support for
privitizing foster care?
Or do you NOT like privitization but can't bring yourself to agree with
me publicly?
You are such a simple shit and so easily lead around. Doug, no doubt,
has many a good chuckle after patting you on the head telling you you
think for yourself.
0:->
0:->
And honest, Greg, if you miss this one I promise not to ask a lot of
rhetorical questions "pretending to claim" <chuckle> that you did so
deliberately for some nefarious reason like you being a CPS
shill...which from time to time I think you might just be to create
sympathy for them.
Let me see now, what will you take a fancy to in this story?
That another foster family are being investigated over a child's death
in their home?
Well, knowing that you hardly ever read completely, or if you do, so
hysterically blind looking for "blame" material, I think I'd better
point out to you this was a KINSHIP placement.
By policy THEY GET BREAKS some folks in or visiting these newsgroups
think relatives should have.
Or maybe you'll take of on the bewildering aspect of a violation of the
constitutional rights (you know the ones you pretend to claim) of this
foster family were violated when their own children and the other foster
child was removed.
Odd that CPS Oregon would blatantly ANNOUNCE they violated the family's
civil rights IF THERE WERE SUCH RIGHTS.
Don't you think? Or don't you think?
And by the way, your claim that no on answered Hugh Value's post about
the child that was killed by foster parents...you are wrong. Ron answered.
Shit you are dumb.
And in fact, as I looked at my cache of stories on children's deaths for
the last few days in the U.S. guess what I came across in addition to a
child in foster care being killed?
Yep, just as you might expect. A father being charged, and in the same
state, at that, in his son's severe injury by blows to the head,
apparently. Might die. Hope not. Unlike you I don't celebrate deaths I
can blame on CPS or anyone else, Greg, you sick little puke.
Here's the foster child story, and I have more on it I'll probably share
later if you show a little interest. Even if you wait a week after I've
posted other information, 0:-]
More | Subscribe | 14-Day Archives (Free) | Long-Term Archives (Paid)
Children removed after foster girl's death
Homicide - A couple's two daughters and the girl's sister are taken away
while police investigate
Friday, September 08, 2006
DEE ANNE FINKEN
GRESHAM -- The foster father of a 2-year-old girl who died of internal
injuries this week said Thursday that he does not understand why
officials removed his birth daughters from the house along with the
foster girl's 3-year-old sister.
"They took away our two daughters and our niece," said Armando
Moreno-Garcia, 38. "They gave us no information, we have no contact with
the children, and we don't know when they'll return them to us. We don't
know what's going on."
A spokeswoman for the state Department of Human Services on Thursday
said the action is normal procedure in such cases and that the children
are in protective custody. "Given the nature of what happened, removing
all children is not out of the practice," said Patricia Fenny, a
spokeswoman with the department.
On Monday, Keyana Bravo was pronounced dead at Legacy Mount Hood Medical
Center after being brought there for treatment for internal injuries.
Hospital officials grew suspicious and called Gresham police, who ruled
the death a homicide.
Police on Thursday again declined to provide much new information,
saying they were concerned the release of further details might
jeopardize the investigation.
"We want an arrest and a conviction," said Sgt. Jeff Hansen of the
Gresham Police Department. "That is our priority."
Moreno-Garcia and his wife, Dunia Soledad-Moreno, 29, had been foster
parents to Keyana and her sister, Jasmin Hamilton, since June and had
hoped to adopt the girls. The couple's birth daughters are 6 and 21/2
years old.
Moreno-Garcia, according to various reports, is related to Jasmin's
biological father.
Keyana and Jasmin's birth mother, Crystal Hamilton, 21, was in seclusion
Thursday, the family said.
"Crystal is obviously not doing that great," said her mother, Mary
Hamilton, who said her daughter had struggled with drug problems.
Mary Hamilton, who adopted Crystal when she was five, said Keyana had
been placed in foster care with another family when she was 9 months
old. The girls had been with that foster couple until earlier this summer.
Amanda Hamilton, Crystal's sister, said Crystal had approved of the
adoption by the Morenos.
"She is trying to deal with the situation as best as she can," Amanda
Hamilton said.
Gosia Wozniacka of The Oregonian staff contributed to this report. Dee
Anne Finken: 503-294-5972; deeann...@news.oregonian.com
....
And now the bio father:
http://www.kptv.com/news/9811218/detail.html
Father In Custody After Child Critically Injured
E-mail this story | Print this story
Sign Up for Breaking News Alerts
Washington County deputies said a father was arrested Thursday afternoon
after his infant son suffered life-threatening head injuries.
...
Detectives said they determined there were suspicious circumstances
involving the child’s injuries and charged the father, 28-year-old Shawn
Thornton Johnson Jr., with assault in the first degree.
Authorities have not released many details in the case.
The incident remains under investigation. ...
Wow, Greg, why don't they tell us more. CPS is hiding something. We
aren't told if the perp ever had an open case with CPS. CPS make NO
public statement on this case.
Boy oh boy, I'll be the guy WORKS FOR CPS...what do you think, you
simple shit?
0:->
0:->
Opps! Forgot the link. And to think how many time's I've admonished you
for not posting links.....R R R R R
Dan Sullivan
dragonsgirl wrote to Greegor:
> Do you have something of value to contribute, or do you just want to bitch
> and whine?
Greg has nothing of value to contribute.
Look it up.
0:->
old sad story of a parent battering a child to death.
The first, and why it's a bit problematic to report it as a "foster
placement" death, is that the male foster parent is apparently related
to the child -- thus it's actually a relatives spouse being charged with
murder. So it's a "kinship" placement, and if proven in court, death at
the hand of a relative.
In the second instance, it's just the sadness of reporting what I had
hoped it would not come to...the battered toddler, son of the accused
man now charged with murder did in fact die in hospital.
Head injuries.
Despite trying not to, I cannot help but think of what happened to these
two children, as they were being hit, likely to stop them from doing
something that displeased the caretaker. A sure fire way to "control"
the child. Just kill them.
http://www.katu.com/stories/88983.html
The Kinship placement foster child death.
"
September 10, 2006
Foster mother arrested for child's death
KATU News Staff
Police arrested a Gresham woman Saturday six days after the death of a
toddler who was in her care. 29-year-old Dunia Soledad-Moreno was
charged with murder by abuse and criminal mistreatment.
Her two-year-old foster daughter was taken to Mount Hood Medical Center
on Tuesday where she was pronounced dead. The medical examiner says the
toddler died of internal injuries.
There is no word on when Soledad-Moreno will be in court, but it is
likely it will be sometime next week."
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1157858709286620.xml&coll=7
And the hospitalized toddler with head injuries death story.
One bio parent, one relative foster.
Where was CPS?