Arizona CPS Manual
Drew Alexander
CPS is ignoring my requests for a copy of their manuals as they continue to
keep a case open despite unsubstantiating it. Have already filed Motion to
Produce and Motion to Compel without getting a result. Has anyone managed to
get a copy under FOIA or some other method? I would be willing to pay for
all copying and overnight charges to get the manual if it could be made
available to me and my legal team. I need to determine what rights I have to
get them to close their investigation but thus far all I am getting is a
bunch of double speak!
Thanks.
Pud...@Cableone.net
Dan Sullivan
"Drew Alexander" <pud...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vcva5j3...@corp.supernews.com...
Hey Drew,
The Arizona CPS Program Manual is not online as of 7/21/02. Try the DES
Homepage.
You should speak with Ricky Thompson, ar...@sedona.net.
He should be glad to help you and he's got plenty of info about Az CPS.
Best, Dan Sullivan
.
Drew Alexander
I already sent a ping to Ricky Thompson - I do not have his phone number or
I would have called him. I see he is very active on alot of these groups and
no doubt would be a great resource to me. I have tried looking everywhere
for this manual. Like I said so far AZ CPS is thumbing its nose at myself
and my team. Mum is hiding behind CPS to try and keep my daughter and I
apart. Thanks for your quick reply. At least it appears some people are
listening.
Regards.
Drew
"Dan Sullivan" <dsul...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:67Oza.25889$Pz3.10...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
sherman
> Dan.
>
> I already sent a ping to Ricky Thompson - I do not have his phone number
or
> I would have called him. I see he is very active on alot of these groups
and
> no doubt would be a great resource to me. I have tried looking everywhere
> for this manual. Like I said so far AZ CPS is thumbing its nose at myself
> and my team. Mum is hiding behind CPS to try and keep my daughter and I
> apart. Thanks for your quick reply. At least it appears some people are
> listening.
>
> Regards.
>
> Drew
Many of us here listen - and care but just don't post to the junk that is
deposited here all too often.
What happened with the Mo to Compel? Can you subpoenaed it? Some States
have it available at their Supreme Court Law Library, others have it
available at a secret place that you must ferret out. Do you have a lawyer?
Sherman.
Doug
Drew,
I am assuming you have an attorney, so stay with your order for production
and motion to compel.
Suggest to your attorney that she/he consider filing a motion for dismissal
of the CPS complaint for failure to show cause of action. You mentioned the
case was unsubstantiated. Removing children or opening cases on
unsubstantiated findings are quite common. However, if the allegations were
unfounded and CPS is making no further complaint -- for instance, failure to
comply with a safety plan -- they have no cause of action.
Meanwhile, I would suggest a letter to the individual at Arizona's CPS
demanding a copy of the manual, cc'd to the USDHHS personnel I have
indicated.
I would also suggest you write a letter requesting a copy of the employment
applications for all CPS personnel involved in your case. (They will redact
some information from these applications). I will share with you
backchannel why this step is helpful.
Request the manual from Nicholas Espadas,
nicholas...@mail.de.state.az.us
Division of Children, Youth and Families, Arizona Department of Economic
Security, 1789 West Jefferson, Phoenix, Arizona 85005. His phone number is
602-542-3969. I would suggest you FAX the letter requesting the manual to
602-542-3330.
Send a copy to Ms. Sharon M. Fujii, Regional Administrator, Region 9, US
Department of Health and Human Services, 50 United Nations Plaza, San
Francisco, California, 94102. Make sure to add "cc: Sharon M. Fujii,
Regional Administrator, Region 9, Administration for Children and Families,
US Department of Health and Human Services" at bottom of original sent to
the state.
Drew Alexander
I am not sure about your first comment ..."Many of us here listen - and care
but just don't post to the junk that is deposited here all too often.". I do
not consider my posting junk ... I came here because it looks like a good
place to share and look for help at the same time. This last month has been
a rocky ride for me and I am the first to acknowledge my limitations ...
good attorneys can do some stuff but not everything so you have to get
involved and stay there. Besides I have taken the position that this is my
life, my child, my relationship and if I value it I will be a part of the
solution.
That said, it is clear that CPS & Law Enforcement are NOT my friends. To be
quite candid I do not think they are my child's friends either. This is my
first ever experience of having to prove innocence. I always thought that in
western cultures we were presumed to be innocent until proven otherwise.
That may sound a bit naive but if the last 28 days are anything to go by, a
baseless accusation relative to your child is just that; a test of one's
resolve and ability to prove innocence which by the way is no easy task.
When I am done and I will prevail - not sure when right now, I plan on
sharing my experience with names withheld of course so others can learn from
my mistakes. I have surrounded myself with smart and motivated people and it
is having an effect. I just recognize that relative to some things that the
larger community out there in Internet land may have already travelled the
road or some portion of it that I am now being forced to go down. That is
why I asked for help in locating the CPS manual. One would think that a
document created by the government would be available to those of us who
fund the damn thing. Hmm.
Anyway, my attorneys filed motion to compel - CPS & Law Enforcement
acknowledged in a mtg that we had with them but thus far have declined to
produce. The motion to produce & subsequently to compel requested manuals -
std. operating procedures etc. as well as any tapes of forensics. They do
not appear to like being asked for stuff that might actually tip the balance
back in your favor.
I know that the CPS manual is supposed to be available under FOIA but the
theory seems to be ahead of the reality in this case. What strikes me as
being odd is how little a good family court attorney such as mine knows of
this kind of request. Not all legal counsels are willing to head into
battle - it seems that all too often they are prepared to let govt. drive.
The position of my legal counsel originally was let's wait and see. I
however do not concur and have asked them to push ahead and force their
hand.
The issue here is I want to subpoena the CPS case file as it supports my
position going into the custody evaluation component but I need to wait
until closed. They (CPS) say they are going to keep it open at mother's
request but I do not understand what my rights are re: closing the file once
all accusations are disproved. I originally thought that an UNSUBSTANTIATED
was disproving but apparently not. I intend to have my counsel push for the
CPS manual as it is the least understood as far as the average Joe is
concerned - sort of like a dark art if you will. I was just hoping that
someone else had already locked horns with CPS and had acquired it and I
could pay for copying etc. Easier said than done.
For those of you reading this who might be interested to know more about my
case, drop me an email. I am VERY willing to discuss because I am totally
innocent and I have already discovered many things that do not thrill me
about False Allegatations of Child Sexual Abuse that might be worth sharing
with others. My little girl is up for her second and LAST forensic this
coming week ... this is a story in of itself.
My advice based on the advice of my hired forensic gun ... metaphorically
get a bigger gun than the other side. It is the only way to fight them.
Drew
"sherman" <sh...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:nNRza.450378$Si4.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Drew Alexander
I have just replied to Sherman but you bring something new to the table and
to keep this thread interesting so that people contribute I want to address
the items you raised in your email/post response.
I do have a couple of attorneys who are active on my case. When the deadline
for the Motion to Compel passes as it likely will without response, I am
going to have my attorney file the appropriate order. The motion to show
cause thing is kind of strange. CPS and Law Enforcement got out of step on
this allegation. CPS had their 21 days and subsequently reported this as
UNSUBSTANTIATED as I had indicated in my original post.
A first forensic was done with my little girl the day after the report was
filed at the FAC. By their own admission they busted the interview - their
words not mine. They used an individual not trained appropriately in
forensic interviewing of children and had several other people have a go at
her over an extended period of time. They violated even their own
interagency protocols but for some reason seem to be having a problem
providing us with a tape - audio or video of the event. We cannot even get a
transcript of the event. Both agencies indicated that they wanted a second
forensic within a week. Nothing happened for 1, 2 and then 3 weeks. All of a
sudden they decided to give it a go last tuesday. My attorneys and I
discussed that after the intensive 4+ weeks of coaching that my child would
be a little vulnerable to another hack at a forensic interview so we
successfully motion for a restraining order on the forensic until controls
could be put in place.
Anyways, a tape became available containing a discussion between mother of
my child and my child with mum coaching her to say stuff that supported the
allegation that was logged at 1-888-SOS-CHILD. CPS & Law Enforcement came to
meet with us to discuss the tape and get feedback from us on its contents.
The detective and CPS agreed that while the tape was clearly coached, they
thought that it contained some worrisome statements. This became the impetus
for them to ask for a second forensic. My attorney requested a copy of the
tape for review and analysis but 10 days on we are still waiting for it.
I do not believe that these controls would have occured had we not
successfully stopped them. 2 days later we appeared in front of a different
Superior Court judge who at the urging of the State lifted the order but
made it very clear that the Interagency protocol i.e. controls if you will
needed to be followed or we - that is me of course would have a strong case
for a taint hearing. By the way I am a lay person so if I get the terms
slightly wrong I apologize. I am trying hard to learn as much of this as
possible so I can accurately relay what is going on in my case to others
like me.
The second forensic will occur in the coming week hopefully but we are
getting an interviewer of statewide importance to do it. This person has at
least on paper more experience than those who hacked the first forensic - we
did request a CV but they have ignored that also. I am more comfortable that
this time around if all protocols are followed and that includes, taping,
structured interview style, no dolls etc. that I will be exhonerated again
just as I was the first time. My concerns remain how to get the damn case
closed with my child's mother hounding CPS for my head on a platter. That is
where the manual comes in to figure out what the internal policies and
procedure state.
CPS continues at my child's mother's behest to require supervised visitation
despite the UNSUBSTANTIATED finding. They have made it clear they want to do
it until the Custody Evaluation is complete. Big problem there is that part
of the evaluation process requires daddy/child appearances which would be
difficult if one were trailing a parent-aide around with them. The whole
supervised visitation thing is another issue but I will save that for
another thread or in response to specific questions from an interested
party. My impression of this whole thing is that CPS & Law Enforcement do
not care about my child or they would not have allowed us to be separated
for close to 30 days on what they have already agreed is a baseless
accusation. They want to keep pushing my child in the hope that the level of
indoctrination is so great that she might say something out of place that
they could use to generate "probable cause". I have great faith in my little
girl that she cannot and will not lie to make this happen.
Again, I am beginning to understand the benefits of sharing stuff like this
with others so they can see what I did - some of it right and some of it
wrong. I have always been taught to hang in there and my love for my child
is what makes me fight. I see uninformed and underinformed people making
decisions that they cannot possibly understand in their entirity without so
much of a blink of the eye. As it turns out the accusation made against me
borders on the absurd and that might end up being its undoing. I am an
advocate for children but when something that is being done is so clearly
malicious there should be checks and balances in the system to uphold the
rights of all parties NOT just those of the accuser as in this case.
We have requested a copy of the manual from the CPS Case Manager but it was
ignored. I will reply to you offline on the employment applications stuff.
You have captured my interest. I will work up a letter this weekend and
share with you if you do not mind. Thanks for the name Nicholas Espadas. I
will let you know how that goes.
Regards.
Drew
"Doug" <doug...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:L8Tza.13995$rO.12...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Destroycps!
Drew Alexander
Destroycps!
I might as well tell the story. It was in '99.
I too was stonewalled in my efforts to get a copy of the DFS policy and
procedures manuals. But after a few phone calls, I got somebody (I don't
remember who) in Jefferson City, the capital, to order the Jackson
County office to let me see the manuals. I met Geary Arnold.
http://www.kclinc.org/mdfs/administration.htm
Despite the unassuming title of Program Administrator, he's as high up
as you can get for the CPS part of DFS in Kansas City, Missouri. He had
a shortish Beatle haircut, a broad Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club
tie, a broad-lapeled small-checkered-plaid tweed suit, and John Lennon
style glasses. (I later learned he seldom deviated from this style.) A
small round pin on his chest had the tiny letters "BIC". I had to look
up-close to read the pin, and, not knowing at the time, I had to ask him
what BIC meant. "Best Interest of the Child" he replied.
On a Missouri deck of cards, Geary is the king of spades.
There were three thick manuals, all in loose-leaf binders. Many pages
had nothing on them except some bureaucratic outline-like line regarding
the following pages. Then the following page would only contain perhaps
one meaningless sentence. After a bit of skimming, I recognized that
two of the manuals were totally irrelevant, and the third, although
relevant, was probably never read by anybody.
(Geary had told me over the phone that he couldn't allow me to take the
manuals or use DFS's copy machines. I offered to bring my own copy
machine, and he agreed to that.) Geary let me use a cubicle, and he
checked on me form time to time. I spend a few hours there, and I
dutifully employed my trusty one-page-at-a-time Cannon until I ran out
of paper. I had only brought about a ream. I returned a few days later
and completed copying the one manual.
I don't remember the title of the manual I copied, but it was the one
that included out-of-home placement and investigations. I'm not sure if
I still have it or not. I'd have to search through some boxes.
The manual is essentially useless.
I suppose you could make some legal argument based using something from
the manual. But what's in it isn't law, and DFS isn't compelled to
follow what's in it. I don't know what kind of standing these manuals
have legally.
A parent might also hope the manual would be useful to find out how DFS
operates. But the manual is useless for this purpose too because it
*doesn't* tell how DFS operates. For example, it has a section defining
what parental rights are. It divides them into two categories,
guardianship rights, which include the right to make medical decisions
for the kid, and custody rights. The manual claims a parent doesn't lose
guardianship rights when a kid goes into foster custody. But in
practice, DFS or its contractors make *all* medical decisions regarding
a foster kid. Thus, the manual doesn't reflect reality.
Interestingly though, there's a "philosophy statement" near the
beginning. It says how sacred the family unit is and how disturbing it
is only an undesirable last resort. It's so contrary to how DFS thinks,
it could have been written by me.
Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!
Ric Werme
>That said, it is clear that CPS & Law Enforcement are NOT my friends. To be
>quite candid I do not think they are my child's friends either. This is my
>first ever experience of having to prove innocence. I always thought that in
>western cultures we were presumed to be innocent until proven otherwise.
>That may sound a bit naive but if the last 28 days are anything to go by, a
>baseless accusation relative to your child is just that; a test of one's
>resolve and ability to prove innocence which by the way is no easy task.
Check out http://werme.8m.net/dcyf_tricks.html - while it's NH-centric,
it seems to apply everywhere else too.
Our mission is more important than your rights.
Oftentimes the first contact someone has with DCYF is at the home's
front door. Sometimes the contact person is a DCYF social worker,
sometimes it's the local police. Usually they will want to be let in
to see the children. Social workers are more likely to say you must
let them in. Actually, no government official has the right to enter
your home without a search warrant, except in extreme situations,
e.g. when there is screaming or gunfire inside.
The whole issue of your rights and DCYF appear to exist in a parallel
universe. Excerpts from a DCYF handbook details how social workers
need not be unduly concerned about your rights and how department
heads should meet with justices to "update the judges on any changes
of the law [etc.]... to ensure the Court's fullest cooperation."
You are guilty until proven innocent.
Well, make that simply "You are guilty." Even if DCYF takes a child
due to suspected abuse but doesn't allege that you or a family member
is the abuser (or that you "failed to protect"), don't expect DCYF to
return your kid. Much of this is possible thanks to the predominance
of civil instead of criminal proceedings. The standard of proof is
much lower, you don't have the right to confront your accuser, hearsay
is admissible in court, a trial by jury is not a right, and the
proceedings can be secret.
>Anyway, my attorneys filed motion to compel - CPS & Law Enforcement
>acknowledged in a mtg that we had with them but thus far have declined to
>produce. The motion to produce & subsequently to compel requested manuals -
>std. operating procedures etc. as well as any tapes of forensics. They do
>not appear to like being asked for stuff that might actually tip the balance
>back in your favor.
* Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing! - Vince Lombardi
Or so it would seem. While legal ethics demand that lawyers
represent only their client's side of the story, prosecutors are
required to put truth and justice first. From New Hampshire's
Rules of Professional Conduct:
Rule 3.8 Special Responsibilities of a Prosecutor
The prosecutor in a criminal case shall:
1. refrain from prosecuting a charge that the prosecutor
knows is not supported by probable cause;
4. make timely disclosure to the defense of all evidence
or information known to the prosecutor that tends to
negate the guilt of the accused or mitigates the
offense....
From http://nhdcyf.info/quotes.html :
"The only reason you want to get a copy of my file is to prove your
case that [the child] was not abused. I'm not going to help you do
that."
NH State Trooper Russ Conte to
Parent Attorney Paula Werme
January 28, 1999
Following the second finding of abuse
in the secret, civil trial.
>I know that the CPS manual is supposed to be available under FOIA but the
>theory seems to be ahead of the reality in this case. What strikes me as
>being odd is how little a good family court attorney such as mine knows of
>this kind of request.
From http://werme.8m.net/dcyf/secrecy.html :
This pattern has repeated in several cases, as near as I can
tell. Why? I think the secrecy laws are the culprit again. DCYF tends
to pursue cases against families who cannot afford a lawyer. Getting a
court appointed lawyer is not as automatic as one might expect, and
the court only allocates $1,200 per case. (Then DCYF routinely opposes
motions to exceed that amount.) The result is that parents often get
an inexperienced lawyer who falls for the many delaying and fishing
tactics and winds up encouraging the parents to sign the consent
decree to get the services and the kid. Between the privacy law and
the embarrassment of being trapped by DCYF, the lawyers don't share
this information amongst themselves and DCYF can keep using these
tricks in case after case.
>For those of you reading this who might be interested to know more about my
>case, drop me an email. I am VERY willing to discuss because I am totally
>innocent and I have already discovered many things that do not thrill me
>about False Allegatations of Child Sexual Abuse that might be worth sharing
>with others. My little girl is up for her second and LAST forensic this
>coming week ... this is a story in of itself.
# Ya gotta believe the children.
Kids are lousy liars. They also don't keep secrets well. On the other
hand, they are impressionable. Long interview sessions and leading
questions will often lead to incredible stories of abuse. (And many
are not credible and lack any supporting evidence.) Older kids can
stick to their story that abuse didn't happen, until an interview is
made that has a transcript but the tape was lost. Even when there is a
tape, it's worth checking the accuracy of the transcript.
So the rule appears to be "Ya gotta believe the children, even if ya
gotta put words in their mouths."
It's always interesting watching a neophyte to the ways of CPS begin to
understand the ways of the system. You're doing better than most, you
have attorneys that are trainable and willing to do what you ask and your
willing to dig into the system yourself to see what makes it tick.
Good Luck!
-Ric Werme
--
SARS refs at Google: WWW: 239000, USENET: 3970, news: 11300
Ric Werme http://werme.8m.net/ | ric@werme....
see also http://nhdcyf.info/ | This space for rent
Dan Sullivan
> Sherman.
>
> I am not sure about your first comment ..."Many of us here listen - and care
> not consider my posting junk ... I came here because it looks like a good
> place to share and look for help at the same time. This last month has been
> a rocky ride for me and I am the first to acknowledge my limitations ...
> good attorneys can do some stuff but not everything so you have to get
> involved and stay there. Besides I have taken the position that this is my
> life, my child, my relationship and if I value it I will be a part of the
> solution.
Make yourself the LARGEST part of the solution.
Lawyers rarely (never?) do as good a job as necessary.
Whatever there is in your case that YOU can do... DO IT!!!
> That said, it is clear that CPS & Law Enforcement are NOT my friends. To be
> quite candid I do not think they are my child's friends either. This is my
> first ever experience of having to prove innocence. I always thought that in
> western cultures we were presumed to be innocent until proven otherwise.
> That may sound a bit naive but if the last 28 days are anything to go by, a
> baseless accusation relative to your child is just that; a test of one's
> resolve and ability to prove innocence which by the way is no easy task.
>
> When I am done and I will prevail - not sure when right now, I plan on
> sharing my experience with names withheld of course so others can learn from
> my mistakes. I have surrounded myself with smart and motivated people and it
> is having an effect. I just recognize that relative to some things that the
> larger community out there in Internet land may have already travelled the
> road or some portion of it that I am now being forced to go down.
I went thru the same situation in 1993.
After an examination by a court appointed evaluator the judge thru out
the SA petition against me and ordered CPS to investigate the person
who made the allegation. CPS declined to investigate the accuser and
actually founded me for the molest despite what their evaluator
concluded and used her report which recommended that their
investigation focus on the accuser as credible evidence that I did
molest my little girl.
It took a year to have that reversed.
You should know that even if you prevail in fam ct CPS will probably
still 'found' you for the molest despite what the judge concludes.
> That is
> why I asked for help in locating the CPS manual. One would think that a
> document created by the government would be available to those of us who
> fund the damn thing. Hmm.
Many states still keep the Program Manual from the legal community as
well as the public.
> Anyway, my attorneys filed motion to compel - CPS & Law Enforcement
> acknowledged in a mtg that we had with them but thus far have declined to
> produce. The motion to produce & subsequently to compel requested manuals -
> std. operating procedures etc. as well as any tapes of forensics. They do
> not appear to like being asked for stuff that might actually tip the balance
> back in your favor.
You should ask for a copy of what's in the file at the District
Attny's office.
The SA team certainly was involved and apparently at this point they
have declined to prosecute.
They are much more likely to respond in full than the county attny or
CPS (you should be able to get a copy of these record as the subject
of the investigation). In fact lots of things get hidden in the DA's
files. Things that you'd never get from CPS.
It should also contain the records of the detectives from the DA's
office which WILL be completely different than the records of the CPS
people who were their at the same interviews of the child and mother!
There is a reason the DA's office declined to prosecute.
You absolutely should know what that is!
> I know that the CPS manual is supposed to be available under FOIA but the
> theory seems to be ahead of the reality in this case. What strikes me as
> being odd is how little a good family court attorney such as mine knows of
> this kind of request.
Many attnys believe attempting to get the PM is a waste of time.
Many attnys don't even bother to get a copy of the case record.
> Not all legal counsels are willing to head into
> battle - it seems that all too often they are prepared to let govt. drive.
True.
> The position of my legal counsel originally was let's wait and see. I
> however do not concur and have asked them to push ahead and force their
> hand.
There may come a time when it becomes evident that the county attny
doesn't have sufficient credible evidence to win... THAT is the time
your attny should file a motion to force their hand.
> The issue here is I want to subpoena the CPS case file as it supports my
> position going into the custody evaluation component but I need to wait
> until closed.
CPS usually doesn't release a caserecord until the investigation is
over. The exception is when a case is in fam ct the respondent NEEDS
the file to defend himself.
The judge knows you should have a copy of the CR.
And get it thru court... with a subpoena.
A copy from CPS directly will NOT contain everything!!!
They WILL remove whatever they think might help you.
> They (CPS) say they are going to keep it open at mother's
> request but I do not understand what my rights are re: closing the file once
> all accusations are disproved. I originally thought that an UNSUBSTANTIATED
> was disproving but apparently not.
CPS might make a determination of 'unsubstantiated' but still keep the
case open for 'services.' It's a way of being involved with a family
until the next allegation can be made (fabricated).
> I intend to have my counsel push for the
> CPS manual as it is the least understood as far as the average Joe is
> concerned - sort of like a dark art if you will. I was just hoping that
> someone else had already locked horns with CPS and had acquired it and I
> could pay for copying etc. Easier said than done.
You CAN get a complete copy... you just need to know the right person
to ask.
And what you'll learn is that CPS people almost have no idea of what's
in the book.
But YOU can use it to destroy their credibility.
When I quote something from the Program Manual to my local CPS they
tell me I must have an old copy!!!
I actually have the old version AND the new.
And in spite of them knowing that I know what they're supposed to do
they still do it wrong and then I have to go thru the adminisrative
review and fair hearing process to get their (intentional) mistake
reversed.
So even if their wrong and eventually they lose in the end they've
kept your life and your families lives in turmoil for as long as
possible.
> For those of you reading this who might be interested to know more about my
> case, drop me an email. I am VERY willing to discuss because I am totally
> innocent and I have already discovered many things that do not thrill me
> about False Allegatations of Child Sexual Abuse that might be worth sharing
> with others. My little girl is up for her second and LAST forensic this
> coming week ... this is a story in of itself.
Why TWO exams?
The first one didn't give them what they want.
> My advice based on the advice of my hired forensic gun ... metaphorically
> get a bigger gun than the other side. It is the only way to fight them.
OR get their BIG gun to abandon them and join your side!!!
That's how I won!
It's not as difficult as you think.
Best, Dan Sullivan from Noo Yawk
Drew Alexander
Thank you for an interesting response. I reviewed your website and found it
quite enlightening. I have a couple of additional comments.
My CPS Case Manager (CM) told me I could get my file once the case was
closed by subpoena but of course without closure it is kind of a worthless
document or effort to get said document. To be fair to her she did say that
the file would be minus some items ... I actually have the feeling that it
will be minus most items when all is said and done. Initially at the request
of my family court attorney I met with CPS and provided them a response from
my perspective. They seemed satisfied and we provided them significant
amounts of documentation to support my statements.
All of a sudden the day before the 21 days expired up pops some freshly
discovered evidence by Law Enforcement that raises lots of questions - enter
the tape! They tell me it raises "red flags" and that they need to dig more.
Still they found it as UNSUBSTANTIATED and I thought that I was part of the
way home to getting this behind me. When I discovered that CPS had elected
to keep the case open at the request of the accuser I begun to appreciate
that this was not even close to closure. What I find hardest to believe is
that the corroborating evidence so to speak is a coached 12 minute tape
inspired by the accuser and CPS & Law Enforcement now think it is ok to
continue with this witchhunt at the expense of both my child and myself.
Under normal circumstances I would object to the neophyte comment - offend
my sensibilities and all, but here I think you are right. I am doing the
best I can given my personal situation. I hired attorneys who did not mind
getting their hands dirty and who are somewhat familiar with this type of
allegation. Both attorneys are fairly seasoned in the family and criminal
courts - remember no criminal charges have been filed after 30 days. I have
a reasonable support network of family and friends and they are holding fast
for me. I came out here because I seek to understand and learn through
other's experiences with these very same govt. agencies.
As for my child I believe she will have trouble lying because that is not in
her nature. She and I both know nothing happened and any seasoned and
trained (the last adjective being the key one) interviewer will be able to
see that this is not her story but really the accuser's story. She is a very
smart and precocious little 4 year old girl and I have confidence in her
that she will do the right thing. The question is more about what lengths
the authorities will go to in their efforts to create something that is not
there.
I am saddened because I love my child and I miss her. I feel like she has
been stolen from me and in practical terms she has. I am convinced that as
long as govt. gives the accuser what might be considered "air cover" this
will not go away. What a sinister place to be. What I can't help thinking if
if I am doing ok and I can afford representation what about all those other
poor b.astards who cannot? Perhaps I am just amazed that in this day and age
guilt before innocence is alive and well and sanctioned by the government.
Very sad indeed!
Pudding
"Ric Werme" <ewerme@attbi@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:6hYza.727076$Zo.154971@sccrnsc03...
Drew Alexander
I have noticed that when one invites attorneys, doctors etc. to the table
that it becomes very crowded with all of those large egos and intellects.
While not wishing to offend them I do believe I haev the most to lose and
therefore the most to gain. I will NOT be a spectator to my own destiny. As
much as I am able without violating the wishes of my defense team - not
talking about detailed facts of my case etc. I think that I must be a part
of the solution to this whole fiasco.
I think my attorneys are doing ok. I am using a thirs party who has been
down this road before to assist them. So far they are playing nice together
but my biggest argument is that they are fairly unreachable at times - large
caseloads is the culprit I'm sure. Sometimes they forget that communication
is key and they are loathed to come to the phone and speak with you diretcly
and try to pass messages through their assistants. I have too many questions
for them to be pursuing that approach and I have demanded direct contact
with them when there are reports to be made. Thus far it seems to be
working. They of course would like me to sit back and relax - chill is the
word I often hear, but I cannot and will not concede to apathy which is what
I think it would translate to if I were to "kick back".
I am sorry but what is an "SA" petition? I am not that familiar with the
jargon yet. I am not sure of the technicalities but without a criminal
charge being filed it is apparently difficult to get documents from the law
enforcement agency in question. CPS and Law Enforcement both stated that
they had no evidence and that forensic #1 gave them nothing but just to be
sure they wanted to do a second. That makes a lot of sense doesn't it? As
far as the policy manual is concerned it took some convicing counsel that it
was key but they did buy in and filed the motions. Only problem is that
government seems to ignore such requests if they do not suit their purpose.
I would like to take some of the other items offline with you if that is ok!
Pudding
"Dan Sullivan" <dsul...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:f9e1b700.03052...@posting.google.com...
Fern5827
Mostly false allegations of sexual abuse.
Which, BTW, have been PROVEN to be way down in the last few years.
So much so, that it has caused State Directors of CPS to speculate about the
causes on Medline.
http://www.unh.edu Check out Center for Crimes against Children and the
absolute DECLINE is sex abuse allegations and substantiations.
Also, you might wish to post to Dad's rights NG--and Divorce NG.
Best wishes to you. Nasty business, that is.
Pudding
You are right about nasty business. I have been to Dean Tong's website and
reviewed alot of his material. I do not know about whether or not numbers
are way down or not. I can only speak for myself and I do not plan on doing
that in detail here. Statistics can be an entirely subjective matter.
Depends on who you ask and how you interpret what they say, yada, yada. I do
not mean to make light of what you said but I can tell you from my own
perspective counting my situation only, false reporting is up 100%.
I could not figure out how to get to the Center for Crimes against Children
@ UNH so if you could post the URL that would be appreciated. That said,
what I have learned from this experience is that the scales of justice,
blind as they are to be quite frank are arse backwards. Before you read the
next portion of this post, please understand that it is not directed at you
personally as I do not know you nor is it intended to be a soapbox moment
but instead a representative culimation of my daily frustrations on this
whole subject of a claim of sexual abuse against a child in a state that I
love to call my home ...
I have examined my conscience and intellect and believe that I would want
the state (if that is the entity that is ultimately charged with ensuring
the welfare of its citizens) to be diligent and to look closely at any
allegation made that might involve my child and to consider it holistically.
I would expect them to start with a presumption of innocence against the
accused party and make a determination based on ALL of the
evidence/information as well as other more touchy/feely environmental
conditions such as the relationship between the accuser and accused for
instance to decide whether something has infact occured.
My experience in the last 4+ weeks tells me that this is not the way the
rubber hits the road. I have seen first hand how information can be used
inappropriately by govt. when provided by malicious person(s) to create
suspicion. I hear directly from the mouths of govt. employees (who lack the
requisite educational experience or credentials) statements that they cannot
possibly support empirically or otherwise purely because it suits their
purpose to do so. I see a system that has lost sight of the purpose of their
existence (protecting the child) and instead focuses on training the guns of
govt. on unsuspecting people.
When adults are willing to take the step of making spurious and false
allegations to manufacture an advantage in an upcoming event such as a
custody evaluation or financial settlement it is without doubt the most
disgusting, egregious act that I have seen in my 30+ years on this planet. I
now understand why our culture decided that justice should begin with
presumption of innocence with guilt having to be proven because quite
frankly it is for those who may have limited resources, time and/or
opportunity an apocolyptic task to prove innocence when one starts with the
presumption of guilt.
Those who know me (and that is nobody out here in the void of cyberspace)
would tell you that I am a determined combatant. I have never walked away
from a fight or crusade that involved something that I believed in ... my
child qualifies in that regard as numero uno! I am glad that I am a type A
personality and that I am willing and prepared to climb each and every
hurdle it might take to demonstrate my innocence - despite the fact that it
is the very thing that I should have been entitled to before this all began.
I am not a big basketball fan but I seem to recollect that one Jimmy
Valvano, the coach of the NC State Wolfpack said "Never give up ... Never
give up". I like that sentiment and it has become my mantra these last few
weeks and a bloody good job too. Anyway, I appreciate your best wishes and I
apologize for my wordiness - you just hit me at an interesting moment.
"Fern5827" <fern...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030526112930...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Fern5827
Confirms that sexual abuse of children is not occurring as often as formerly
thought.
In fact it is way down.
Pudding
Decline in SUBSTANTIATED cases yes. This says nothing about false claims per
se. Not trying to nit pick but there is a subtle difference.
Drew
"Fern5827" <fern...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030527155813...@mb-m16.aol.com...